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Gorilla.
06-22-11, 11:36 pm
keeping it short,

which is the better workout.... Hell Raiser - or - Bosshoggs?

ive been using bosshoggs lately and have seen some gains, but is hell raiser a better split for gains in everything?

Carrnage
06-22-11, 11:44 pm
keeping it short,

which is the better workout.... Hell Raiser - or - Bosshoggs?

ive been using bosshoggs lately and have seen some gains, but is hell raiser a better split for gains in everything?

We dont know what works for you. We dont know your hormone levels, stress/life, and the length on your ligaments. So we can't really write out or tell what program or exercise is gonna work for you. Only God knows that.

Bottom line is.....as long as your pushing to failure on your compound movements, eating plenty of quality foods, no toxic processed foods, sleeping 6-8 hours a night, have atleast 3-4 complete off(rest) days during the week, id say your chances for putting on muscle mass is very high. Whether you prefer high volume, low volume, DC, Bosshog,Crazy 8 style, or Hell raiser(wtf is that? lol), just to name a few, pick what you feel is right for your body, keep going until you find the sweet spot. Theres so much science out there now stating on what training styles effect the body's hormone system, so if you wanna follow something scientific go ahead. Most people have the meathead mindset and they say "screw that". But at the same time its a good idea to not follow science all the time, as that can def lead to overthinking things!

Gorilla.
06-22-11, 11:54 pm
We dont know what works for you. We dont know your hormone levels, stress/life, and the length on your ligaments. So we can't really write out or tell what program or exercise is gonna work for you. Only God knows that.

Bottom line is.....as long as your pushing to failure on your compound movements, eating plenty of quality foods, no toxic processed foods, sleeping 6-8 hours a night, have atleast 3-4 complete off(rest) days during the week, id say your chances for putting on muscle mass is very high. Whether you prefer high volume, low volume, DC, Bosshog,Crazy 8 style, or Hell raiser(wtf is that? lol), just to name a few, pick what you feel is right for your body, keep going until you find the sweet spot. Theres so much science out there now stating on what training styles effect the body's hormone system, so if you wanna follow something scientific go ahead. Most people have the meathead mindset and they say "screw that". But at the same time its a good idea to not follow science all the time, as that can def lead to overthinking things!

yah i see where your coming from, its just i know how to work myself, but its the fact that i have a hard time making my own workout because i would over think something and end up getting pissed lol.

so i like to sit back and read up on a few animal work outs and HRT (dumbass haha), since it makes me think easier and i can see positive thinks about it even though they may not be exactly like me hah

but ill eventually find out the perfect split for me, just will take a few different routines to go through before it happens

Carrnage
06-23-11, 12:27 am
yah i see where your coming from, its just i know how to work myself, but its the fact that i have a hard time making my own workout because i would over think something and end up getting pissed lol.

so i like to sit back and read up on a few animal work outs and HRT (dumbass haha), since it makes me think easier and i can see positive thinks about it even though they may not be exactly like me hah

but ill eventually find out the perfect split for me, just will take a few different routines to go through before it happens

May the Heavens above have mercy on your confused soul.

:)

Gorilla.
06-23-11, 12:29 am
May the Heavens above have mercy on your confused soul.

:)

not confused, my mind just isnt the most technical of minds.....

Sinister_TES
06-23-11, 1:02 am
did you not just make a thread asking if you should continue your routine or change...And what did we all say. Do yourself a favour and turn off your internet for 12 weeks. This will stop you from finding routines and over analyzing shit

zubda345
06-23-11, 5:18 am
May the Heavens above have mercy on your confused soul.

:)

hahahahahahaha laughing really.


not confused, my mind just isnt the most technical of minds.....

for this, below is the best answer...


did you not just make a thread asking if you should continue your routine or change...And what did we all say. Do yourself a favour and turn off your internet for 12 weeks. This will stop you from finding routines and over analyzing shit

and Is this the same Gorilla I know?? man just MAN up ok? I was also like that for Bosshogg. Atleast let it go with u for 4 months bro... if u r seein gains keep on it no need to switch, just keep on it...

Gorilla.
06-23-11, 11:26 am
fine

Universal Rep
06-23-11, 12:30 pm
This sport ain't for those who are shortsighted. It takes considerable time and patience to make a dent in ur physique... I'm assuming ya have the time and the dedication brother. As others have said, no one can tell you how ur gonna respond to this training approach or another. Ur gonna have to find out for yourself. So as you've got time, patience and dedication, the logical outcome is to try one for a good while and then the other. Only then can you, yourself, answer your original question... Remember, you gotta have a long view if you wanna make an impact.

Cuz Rage is here and can help ya out (make sense of the fine points), and cuz you are here, I'd prolly start with HRT...

Mr. Dead
06-23-11, 12:31 pm
This sport ain't for those who are shortsighted. It takes considerable time and patience to make a dent in ur physique... I'm assuming ya have the time and the dedication brother. As others have said, no one can tell you how ur gonna respond to this training approach or another. Ur gonna have to find out for yourself. So as you've got time, patience and dedication, the logical outcome is to try one for a good while and then the other. Only then can you, yourself, answer your original question... Remember, you gotta have a long view if you wanna make an impact.

Cuz Rage is here and can help ya out (make sense of the fine points), and cuz you are here, I'd prolly start with HRT...

Agreed...

AKN
06-23-11, 1:02 pm
yah i see where your coming from, its just i know how to work myself, but its the fact that i have a hard time making my own workout because i would over think something and end up getting pissed lol.

so i like to sit back and read up on a few animal work outs and HRT (dumbass haha), since it makes me think easier and i can see positive thinks about it even though they may not be exactly like me hah

but ill eventually find out the perfect split for me, just will take a few different routines to go through before it happens

You are already overthinking it. There is no perfect split or routine. It all comes down to hard work and consistency. The biggest and strongest guys in the world do not all follow the same split. But they all squat, bench/overhead press and deadlift. Train 3-4 days a week (hard), eat up and rest. Do this for a long time and you will get huge. I think Max Aita said it best. If you squat for 10 years and stay consistent, it doesn't matter if you do 10's 5's or 3's, you will get stronger.

AKN
06-23-11, 1:06 pm
But at the same time its a good idea to not follow science all the time, as that can def lead to overthinking things!

This is so true. I used percents and all that shit for a while but went back to staying conservative and going by feel. Works a lot better for me. I'm pretty sure ox didn't use a perfect routine to squat 500x12 without a belt. He just worked his ass off.

zubda345
06-23-11, 1:26 pm
U r thinking alot like I used to U know... We'll surely talk about this sometimes on FB.

Gorilla.
06-23-11, 3:49 pm
yah i know all what you guys are saying, and i have the dedication im just asking you how good HRT is since once im done with bosshoggs ill prolly start it,

and like i said earlier i know it takes time to find the right routine that works the best for me im just asking around to see others opinions on certain things, its not like i cant do it myself

Sinister_TES
06-23-11, 5:10 pm
its not like i cant do it myself

Then why not do it yourself?

Big C
06-23-11, 5:13 pm
Screw "routines." Just go in lift hard, go home recover and eat 6 quality meals a day and get at least 8 hours of sleep. If you aren't growing then, something is wrong.

Gorilla.
06-23-11, 9:25 pm
Then why not do it yourself?

k, you can keep your bitchy ass out of my thread if you dont have anything helpful to say obviously you have nothing better to do so take some advice and quit being a dick

Gorilla.
06-23-11, 9:26 pm
Screw "routines." Just go in lift hard, go home recover and eat 6 quality meals a day and get at least 8 hours of sleep. If you aren't growing then, something is wrong.

true true

Jzepp
06-23-11, 11:57 pm
Screw "routines." Just go in lift hard, go home recover and eat 6 quality meals a day and get at least 8 hours of sleep. If you aren't growing then, something is wrong.


I disagree..you can't just go in and lift without having a plan. Progressive overload is one key to getting bigger.

Carrnage
06-24-11, 12:22 am
yah i know all what you guys are saying, and i have the dedication im just asking you how good HRT is since once im done with bosshoggs ill prolly start it,

and like i said earlier i know it takes time to find the right routine that works the best for me im just asking around to see others opinions on certain things, its not like i cant do it myself

Youl never find the perfect routine. Reps and sets change on a daily basis. Once you find something that delievers results, your body will adapt to it very very quickly. And i mean quickly! Just stay consistant, dont worry about finding a program. If there was a secret program out there we'd all know about it by now. Like i said, just aslong as your busting your ass off on presses,dips,chins,rows,deads,squats you will get results. I remember when i first started training, i use to overthink things waaay more than you. Until one day i said "fuck it", i didnt even worried or thought about training, i just thought about other things in life, i still trained a few days a week aswell. Didnt worry about bodybuilding....and what do ya know? I started growing like weeds all of a sudden! Theres somethings scientist or numbers can't explain, and having a one size fits all training program is one of em!

Carrnage
06-24-11, 12:25 am
I disagree..you can't just go in and lift without having a plan. Progressive overload is one key to getting bigger.

And stuffing yourself with quality food. One thing that i noticed, is when ever i eat around 1000 grams of carbs all coming from white rice/ potatoes / soaked oatmeal with healthy fats each meal i pack on muscle mass quickly. Obviously training intensity and cardio was on point so i wouldnt gain any fat.

prowrestler
06-24-11, 1:59 am
stop thinking about your training, and actually train. i have made the rule of never changing a training idea unless in the pit with the bars infront of my face. not infront of a computer where the whole world has a useless opinion. critica thinking is a skill this world has lost due to simplification.


turn off your internet for more then 12 weeks. come back in a year after bosshog when you are jacked and tell us how you did it.

Big C
06-24-11, 9:44 am
I disagree..you can't just go in and lift without having a plan. Progressive overload is one key to getting bigger.

Bullshit you can't. I've gone from 220 to 260 in just a few years time without having a program I run for 10-12 weeks or whatever.. Tell me what I'm dong wrong, please. I'm all ears

Aggression
06-24-11, 9:58 am
Screw "routines." Just go in lift hard, go home recover and eat 6 quality meals a day and get at least 8 hours of sleep. If you aren't growing then, something is wrong.


I disagree..you can't just go in and lift without having a plan. Progressive overload is one key to getting bigger.


Bullshit you can't. I've gone from 220 to 260 in just a few years time without having a program I run for 10-12 weeks or whatever.. Tell me what I'm dong wrong, please. I'm all ears

You're both right.

Big C is right in terms of just getting it done. Does someone NEED a routine? Absolutely not. Progressive overload isn't a 'routine' in my opinion. Every routine out there involves progressive overload. I've personally done DC, HIT, 5/3/1, Max OT ... they ALL involve progressive overload. Getting in the gym and just going with the flow is often the best way to find out what exercises, rep schemes, and/or amount of sets are best for one's body. Keep a journal if need be. Record your workouts and then look back to see what worked/didn't work.

However, SOME people NEED a routine. There are some people out there that are borderline OCD when it comes to lifting. They need to be told what to do. They need a plan to follow. Or else they feel like they're not making progress. I change shit up every once in a while to stray away from boredom. Once I find a program that I thoroughly enjoy doing while getting gains, I stick with it. I choose to implement the 5/3/1 program for strength and mass. For someone like Big C, the dude is a brick shithouse. He just goes in there and gets shit done. No routine, no set scheme or reps and/or sets.

Bottom line .. a routine isn't necessary. The 'training routines' listed on this site don't have to be followed down to the rep. The best way to make gains is to find what works for YOU, whether its a certain exercise(s), a certain amount of sets, reps, a certain split., etc. This whole game is trail-and-error. The biggest advantage professionals have is that they have found what works for THEM after years of searching.

prowrestler
06-24-11, 10:33 am
Bullshit you can't. I've gone from 220 to 260 in just a few years time without having a program I run for 10-12 weeks or whatever.. Tell me what I'm dong wrong, please. I'm all ears

you have no structure or motive with your training? no principals what so ever? no staples? I find that hard to believe. have you put effort in the big exercises and brought them up to decent levels? that is structure

Aggression
06-24-11, 10:50 am
you have no structure or motive with your training? no principals what so ever? no staples? I find that hard to believe. have you put effort in the big exercises and brought them up to decent levels? that is structure

having a structure and having a routine are two different things. One's workout structure can include heavy compounds combined with isolation movements all in an effort to break down muscle tissue and chase the pump. Exercises, sets, rep schemes, etc can change from workout to workout. A routine is something that you follow, exercise for exercise, set for set. What Big C is implying is that he may go into the gym on a Friday and say, 'I'm training chest'. But from there on, its all about going with the flow. If he bench presses, OK. If he doesn't, OK. He may do some supersets one week and straight sets another. He may throw in biceps after chest one week and then save it for an arm day the next week. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that way of training.

prowrestler
06-24-11, 11:20 am
having a structure and having a routine are two different things. One's workout structure can include heavy compounds combined with isolation movements all in an effort to break down muscle tissue and chase the pump. Exercises, sets, rep schemes, etc can change from workout to workout. A routine is something that you follow, exercise for exercise, set for set. What Big C is implying is that he may go into the gym on a Friday and say, 'I'm training chest'. But from there on, its all about going with the flow. If he bench presses, OK. If he doesn't, OK. He may do some supersets one week and straight sets another. He may throw in biceps after chest one week and then save it for an arm day the next week. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that way of training.

i know, and thats still a routine, just a loose 1. the end goal is the same, get better then the day before

Gorilla.
06-24-11, 11:34 am
alright well i feel bosshogg is slowin down for me ive been on it for about 9 weeks once it hits 12 ima switch to HRT and live it, no need to post any more threads like this ill just be training

thanks for the support guys peace

Big C
06-24-11, 11:48 am
you have no structure or motive with your training? no principals what so ever? no staples? I find that hard to believe. have you put effort in the big exercises and brought them up to decent levels? that is structure

Who are you? Yeah...i do have all those. I bench I squat I deadlift. I work on getting stronger and bigger day in and day out. What I'm saying is I don't have a notebook in front of me jotting down my numbers, or that I have to do 10 reps here, 8 reps on this, 6 reps on this. Right now I'm training to failure on almost everything and that's working. I'm also not like most of these clowns out there who spend more time looking up routines and getting advice rather than putting my time in the the gym. No motive, staples, or principles? Lmao.

Thanks Aggression yes that what I was trying to say in better words.

Gorilla.
06-24-11, 11:52 am
Who are you? Yeah...i do have all those. I bench I squat I deadlift. I work on getting stronger and bigger day in and day out. What I'm saying is I don't have a notebook in front of me jotting down my numbers, or that I have to do 10 reps here, 8 reps on this, 6 reps on this. Right now I'm training to failure on almost everything and that's working. I'm also not like most of these clowns out there who spend more time looking up routines and getting advice rather than putting my time in the the gym. No motive, staples, or principles? Lmao.

Thanks Aggression yes that what I was trying to say in better words.

no need to start slammin me if thats what you just did, k thanks

Big C
06-24-11, 11:54 am
no need to start slammin me if thats what you just did, k thanks

Not at all bro. I wasn't implying you. I don't know you. This is just from my real life observations.

Gorilla.
06-24-11, 11:55 am
Not at all bro. I wasn't implying you. I don't know you. This is just from my real life observations.

k np then

Aggression
06-24-11, 12:07 pm
Thanks Aggression yes that what I was trying to say in better words.

I know what you're about, C. I tend to follow the same suit, man. No real set routine, but constantly improving.

Sinister_TES
06-24-11, 12:20 pm
k, you can keep your bitchy ass out of my thread if you dont have anything helpful to say obviously you have nothing better to do so take some advice and quit being a dick

How am I being bitchy or a dick. I just think that you would gain much more insight if you did the research yourself. You said you are capable of doing it so take the time and lay out all the information you can gather then compare them. Analyze them and decide what one your body is going to react better to. We cant truely do that for you because we arnt you.

And as for my first comment, I made that because you last two threads have been about possibly switching routines and everyone keeps giving you the same answer. So i think if you took some time off looking at the internet you wouldnt be wanting to try every routine you read up on. That is exactley how I am so i know where your coming from. The most effective information on any forum is the most brutaly honest, so you need to take the time and try to get more from all the comments, even the ones that appear negative, like some of mine.

prowrestler
06-24-11, 12:27 pm
Who are you? Yeah...i do have all those. I bench I squat I deadlift. I work on getting stronger and bigger day in and day out. What I'm saying is I don't have a notebook in front of me jotting down my numbers, or that I have to do 10 reps here, 8 reps on this, 6 reps on this. Right now I'm training to failure on almost everything and that's working. I'm also not like most of these clowns out there who spend more time looking up routines and getting advice rather than putting my time in the the gym. No motive, staples, or principles? Lmao.

Thanks Aggression yes that what I was trying to say in better words.

that time of month or something\? christ people are sensitive..

i thought it was pretty clear that i was showing you that there is structure to your training, i asked those questions knowing you would say yes to them.

your last statement i strongly fucking believe in 99% of this training world spends time researching how to hold a barbell, the other 1% actually does.

Universal Rep
06-24-11, 12:56 pm
Let's all take a deep breath fellas and remember where we are... the FORVM. Debate and discuss with passion but also with respect. We are all family here...

Aggression
06-24-11, 1:09 pm
your last statement i strongly fucking believe in 99% of this training world spends time researching how to hold a barbell, the other 1% actually does.

I LOL'd here. I know someone like this.

Everyone has valid points in here. In the end, as long as there is some structure to your training, then you're good to go. No need to follow a 'routine' for the sake of following something. Just get in there, focus on compound movements and throw in some isolations/assistance work, depending on your goals.

You'll be fine. Training should be instinctive, all while relying on the most proven movements.

Rage
06-24-11, 1:51 pm
Hit me up when your ready to start and I'll personally help guide you through. This way you can decide for yourself.

Gorilla.
06-24-11, 1:52 pm
Hit me up when your ready to start and I'll personally help guide you through. This way you can decide for yourself.

thanks ill let you kno

zubda345
06-24-11, 5:40 pm
Respect and Peace Bros, Respect and Peace... no fights... Keep the Brotherhood intact...

Jzepp
06-24-11, 7:44 pm
Bullshit you can't. I've gone from 220 to 260 in just a few years time without having a program I run for 10-12 weeks or whatever.. Tell me what I'm dong wrong, please. I'm all ears


Wow!! People in here are quick to slam other people down without listening to other peoples opinions. In my opinion, Maybe, i misunderstood you but did you ever think that you have the genetics to go to the gym and do whatever each time and still make gains? I certaintly cant. I have did the going to the gym without a certain plan in mind and got nowhere.

To me you need to know what weights you are using and exercises and get stronger on the exercises each week. Like i said, maybe it works for you, but i cant just go into the gym and do bench press with 225 pounds for 6 reps and then not do it again the next time, always changing exercises and reps constantly...not having a clue of what i did the last time. I did that for years..never made progress worth a damn.

I started seeing gains when i had a set routine to follow and knew what i did before and made sure to do more reps or weight the next time around.

Carrnage
06-24-11, 9:39 pm
Who are you? Yeah...i do have all those. I bench I squat I deadlift. I work on getting stronger and bigger day in and day out. What I'm saying is I don't have a notebook in front of me jotting down my numbers, or that I have to do 10 reps here, 8 reps on this, 6 reps on this. Right now I'm training to failure on almost everything and that's working. I'm also not like most of these clowns out there who spend more time looking up routines and getting advice rather than putting my time in the the gym. No motive, staples, or principles? Lmao.

Thanks Aggression yes that what I was trying to say in better words.

Your my hero.

100 percent agree and everyone should have a mindset like Big C! The sticking to a plan and writing it down in a notebook is for 15 year old kids who just start out or cant remember what they ate for breakfast! ROFL

Big C
06-24-11, 10:02 pm
Your my hero.

100 percent agree and everyone should have a mindset like Big C! The sticking to a plan and writing it down in a notebook is for 15 year old kids who just start out or cant remember what they ate for breakfast! ROFL

Thanks big man. As I know you've paid your dues as well. I didn't mean to come off as a prick earier that's not who I am but I feel strongly about certain things and this is one of them. You can't go through the motions when you train...that's why I'm always trying to challenge myself. Even though I've been in the iron game for almost 10 years now I'm still learning new stuff all the time and looking to expand my knowledge.

BarbellManiac
06-25-11, 12:45 pm
You know unless your a pro and your life depends on your training (even then overthinking is stupid), stop overthinking. Have a basic routine, lift heavy, eat lots of good food, use a training journal (not to beat the logbook) but just for the record. There is no best routine, both HRT and bosshogg are good, but one should learn to stick to it. Also do what you like, if you don't feel like training a certain way, by all means change it up. Your the king of your own training, you control everything so don't be afraid to follow your instincts.

Jzepp
06-26-11, 2:00 am
alright well i feel bosshogg is slowin down for me ive been on it for about 9 weeks once it hits 12 ima switch to HRT and live it, no need to post any more threads like this ill just be training

thanks for the support guys peace


You say things are slowing down. Have you taken a break? Did you at least put on any descent size from the program?

Carrnage
06-26-11, 2:04 am
You say things are slowing down. Have you taken a break? Did you at least put on any descent size from the program?

Taking a break for weeks always puts on size!!! CNS recovery is key to avoid plateus!