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Solid Dreams
08-11-11, 11:57 am
I know that bench uses different muscle groups, and I've got an issue.

When I'm doin flat bench, if I go to 275+ it doesn't feel heavy, but when I hit right by my pecs I struggle to get it up (or in some cases, can't at all) but if my spotter taps it past the bottom I can easily press it back up.

What do I need to train to hit that low point and force past it?

MRmichael.hooker
08-11-11, 12:06 pm
I know that bench uses different muscle groups, and I've got an issue.

When I'm doin flat bench, if I go to 275+ it doesn't feel heavy, but when I hit right by my pecs I struggle to get it up (or in some cases, can't at all) but if my spotter taps it past the bottom I can easily press it back up.

What do I need to train to hit that low point and force past it?

I believe that would be triceps. If i'm wrong, someone correct me and let me know. We've got quite a bit of powerlifters on here, so you should get a couple real good answers bro

Bruiser
08-11-11, 12:16 pm
I believe that would be triceps. If i'm wrong, someone correct me and let me know. We've got quite a bit of powerlifters on here, so you should get a couple real good answers bro

I think you're right though man. Because I've got great tri's (always been a stronger point) and I can push through the bottom of the lift but have trouble at the lockout. I need to get some chains, boards and bands for my issue.

Solid Dreams
08-11-11, 1:21 pm
Really? Triceps? I feel like I have strong tris, although I probably don't.

I tried looking around on youtube but everyone trolls them saying YOUR FORM SUCKS so I'm not really sure the best way to go.

I tend to pull my shoulderblades under and try to have a nice 90 degree angle for my arms when I do it, but on the heavy stuff when I push my back back down into the bench I get that surge. Probably means my form is fucked.

Aggression
08-11-11, 2:15 pm
I'm going to guess that its your triceps strength. I have the same problem. When doing the bench, the initial explosion needs help. But once it gets past the first 1/4 of the way, it flies up. To rectify this, I have been doing pin presses, rack presses, and floor presses, all designed to build up the triceps.

Tiny1102
08-11-11, 11:51 pm
Sounds like you need to do more back work. If you have issues off the chest you should do more back work. If it is youe lockout, then you need to do more tricep work.

Carrnage
08-12-11, 8:13 pm
I know that bench uses different muscle groups, and I've got an issue.

When I'm doin flat bench, if I go to 275+ it doesn't feel heavy, but when I hit right by my pecs I struggle to get it up (or in some cases, can't at all) but if my spotter taps it past the bottom I can easily press it back up.

What do I need to train to hit that low point and force past it?

Most likely a muscle imbalance, could be your triceps,rotator cuff strength/delts, or lats. Or maybe you just have a weak chest, most people dont know how to utilize their pecs with mind muscle connection, what im trying to say is, maybe your going too heavy and worrying about how much your lifting rather than feeling a stretch and contraction in your pecs?

GUNS
08-14-11, 3:33 am
Kind of agree with a little bit of what people are telling you. I don't think it is your tri's, that's more lockout. I have always been the same way and I believe my tri's are one of my strongest body parts. I have weak rotator cuff/shoulder structure. Don't think I was built for heavy benching. I neglected rotator cuff work and after I have been working that into my upper body days, I feel that my bottom end has gotten stronger. Try hitting up your rotator cuff exercises on chest/back/shoulder days. Not only will it strengthen up, but it is a huge prevention tool.

Like aggression said, try some of the floor presses, speed bench as well. Even just dropping the weight a little, do a pause at the bottom, then explode the press. Add them in at the end of your chest day, but only one movement. I would not do your full chest day then do all these movements at the end. Pick one a week to do at the end of your chest day, alternating them each week.

And as Tiny said, work on your lats. Really important part of your bench.

BryanSmash!
08-14-11, 10:49 am
I know that bench uses different muscle groups, and I've got an issue.

When I'm doin flat bench, if I go to 275+ it doesn't feel heavy, but when I hit right by my pecs I struggle to get it up (or in some cases, can't at all) but if my spotter taps it past the bottom I can easily press it back up.

What do I need to train to hit that low point and force past it?
The underlying issue here is that maybe the weight is just too heavy for your current strength level. Everybody is going to have a sticking point, but sometimes just working with a little less weight through the entire range of motion will solve the problem immediately.
Also, without a clearly defined goal (bench more weight, or develop the chest for BBing, etc), and a video of you performing the lift under a strenuous load, its going to be difficult diagnose the actual problem.
Hope that helps!

TruePower
08-14-11, 1:11 pm
I'm thinking all depends on when you start your bench, is it at the beginning or end of your workout? If so, if you are doing a shit ton of compound exercises such as tricep pushdowns, military presses and so on so forth, and you hop on the bench with 275+ of course you're going to struggle. Your tricep makes up 2/3 of your arm and that's probably the best thing to work on. Personally my wrist are tweaked as fuck, so if I don't tape my shit up I won't be able to lift shit once I get the weight down. Anyways, hope you figure it out.

~Kelton

LegendKillerJosh
08-14-11, 10:20 pm
Sounds like you need to do more back work. If you have issues off the chest you should do more back work. If it is youe lockout, then you need to do more tricep work.

This man is one of the best benchers in the world and he is right. Triceps should not be the problem since triceps are mostly involved in the top portion and lockout portion of the bench. Since you also said you go with a 90 degree angle it is likely you bench more "bodybuilder style" instead of getting those elbows tucked like a powerlifter. When you lower the bar imagine you are pulling it down to your chest with your lats. This technique helps me launch the bar off my stomach.

Not many people also realize how important lats, and especially rear delts and traps are in a bench. That's your base on the bench, don't neglect rear delts. Face pulls will help you get the bottom portion of your bench strong. Things like boards and bands help with the top half of the lift since the bar gets heavier as you go up, so it might not help correct being weak at the bottom of the press. Back work and chest work like heavy flys should help.

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 11:48 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfk0H41g3Aw

I got a video in, for my last set.

BarbellManiac
08-15-11, 11:57 am
Your left arm, primarily your tricep I think is stronger than your right. It's evident on the last few reps, where you can get it up from the left side, but struggle from the right.

LegendKillerJosh
08-15-11, 12:32 pm
Is this regular bench? I would call that narrow grip bench press. You are making the lift almost all triceps with that narrow of a grip, that's why you struggle off the chest, no chest involvement.

Also note the angle of your forearm, your wrist should always be directly above your elbow.

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 12:33 pm
Really? I usually grip the bar way closer for narrow grip/close grip bench.

LegendKillerJosh
08-15-11, 12:34 pm
Really? I usually grip the bar way closer for narrow grip/close grip bench.

the narrowest you should go is pinky covering the ring, your pinky is several inches inside the ring.

GUNS
08-15-11, 1:17 pm
Yep, Forearms should be verticle during the press. Good call LKJ!

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 1:20 pm
Ah, okay, I thought that was too wide so I went for the inner rings.

Tiny1102
08-15-11, 2:03 pm
Ah, okay, I thought that was too wide so I went for the inner rings.

Just watched your video. man, I hate how your lift-off guy throws the weight out. First, take those gloves off. You need to feel that weight. Next, take a big breathe before you bring the bar down and hold it till you lock out. I don't mind your hand placement, but you really need to do a better job keeping your elbows in. You are losing a lot of power when you flare them out. That puts the bar on your shoulders and you do not want that. I can't see them, but it looks like you lift on your toes. Try to get your feet flat and turn your heals out. Work on that and watch the majic.

GUNS
08-15-11, 2:09 pm
Great response Tiny.

Tiny, I think you were spot on, but unlike you, I feel his hands need to be wider. I feel he is using more tri's this way and not getting the strength of his shoulders, pecks involved. Is this correct?

Tiny1102
08-15-11, 2:13 pm
Great response Tiny.

Tiny, I think you were spot on, but unlike you, I feel his hands need to be wider. I feel he is using more tri's this way and not getting the strength of his shoulders, pecks involved. Is this correct?

I do like a wider hand placement, but the areas I spoke about were needed much more. He does not look like a very wide person, but again, yes I do like hand placement a little wider. Just not much.

GUNS
08-15-11, 2:15 pm
Thanks Tiny!

Tiny1102
08-15-11, 2:18 pm
I thought I gave a response. Yes, I think his hands can move out some, but the other areas needed much more attention.

Tiny1102
08-15-11, 2:19 pm
If he takes those gloves off, he might add 50 pounds to his bench..lol

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 2:28 pm
What would you do to practice with the elbows? I'm not sure how to tuck. And yeah, my feet were lifted because I watched the 6 weeks video and was trying to pinch m shoulder blades and shove my traps ino the bench.

GUNS
08-15-11, 2:35 pm
Drop the weight and practice your elbows.

zachlloyd
08-15-11, 5:29 pm
Drop the weight and practice your elbows.

Gotta go with guns here, drop the weight and focus on the technique. Some of the other guys mentioned lat involvement and I feel keeping your elbows tucked in some also increases that more. I would work on form with a lower weight for a while then gradually go back up.

With that imbalance there, should some single arm stuff be used to try and balance all that out? Ive fortunately never had to deal with that but that would be my thoughts on the matter.

Remember the weight at this point doesn't matter, fixing things does, leave the ego at the door.

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 7:13 pm
Yeah I know, but I'm not sure how to pull my elbows in to do it. Usually if I do stuff like that I get someone to hold my arms so I get the right feel but obviously nobody at my gym would do that.

LegendKillerJosh
08-15-11, 10:05 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byOk4OE_6uI

Watch all 8 parts and you're good to go.

Solid Dreams
08-15-11, 10:22 pm
Yeah, I started watching that because I watched the "So you think you can squat" thing.

I'll do another video after I get some practice in and we'll see how I progress!

GUNS
08-16-11, 12:03 am
Suggest buying a Sling Shot. It will help you keep your elbows in. But only for the lighter weight. Do not use it to go up to your heaviest weight.

Tiny1102
08-16-11, 1:02 am
Yeah I know, but I'm not sure how to pull my elbows in to do it. Usually if I do stuff like that I get someone to hold my arms so I get the right feel but obviously nobody at my gym would do that.



Just turn them in and keep them in. You have to start from the lift-off. When you come off your chest keep them in. Once they flare, then your lift is on your shoulders....BAD

LegendKillerJosh
08-16-11, 10:28 pm
I don't know if we even addressed this or not, but are you looking to compete in powerlifting? Or are you in to bodybuilding? Cause if you want to move the most weight possible, those "you think you can bench" videos will help a ton. But if you are in to bodybuilding you probably want to bench to focus as much as possible on chest and should probably doing more dumbells and incline benching.

Solid Dreams
08-16-11, 10:32 pm
Basically I want to get built up so that I look like I can bench a lot, but I still want to be able to do it right because I want to be able to compete with friends in the gym if I have to, and I still have that mindset of "I should be able to bench this house" from high school.


Especially since I feel like when I'm doing it that I'm just not hitting my chest right. I'm getting the cords on the sides but I'm not feeling it in the center areas, if that makes sense.

GUNS
08-16-11, 11:31 pm
You need DB work or some hammer strength work. Grab some DB's, lay back on the bench, do a normal press, but at the top, turn them in, palms facing together and make them touch. At this point you should be squeezing the shit out of your pec's. Do 3-4 sets of 10-12.

Tiny1102
08-17-11, 4:37 pm
Great response Tiny.

Tiny, I think you were spot on, but unlike you, I feel his hands need to be wider. I feel he is using more tri's this way and not getting the strength of his shoulders, pecks involved. Is this correct?

Hand placement really depends on a lifters size. I finally got my partner to change his and his numbers blew up. I like wide, but just as wide as outside the lifters shoulders.

Solid Dreams
08-17-11, 4:45 pm
So outside the shoulders? Man, high school has messed me up. They always said to put your hands wherever the first marks are on the bar, regardless of wingspan.

Universal Rep
08-17-11, 4:55 pm
Just watched your video. man, I hate how your lift-off guy throws the weight out. First, take those gloves off. You need to feel that weight. Next, take a big breathe before you bring the bar down and hold it till you lock out. I don't mind your hand placement, but you really need to do a better job keeping your elbows in. You are losing a lot of power when you flare them out. That puts the bar on your shoulders and you do not want that. I can't see them, but it looks like you lift on your toes. Try to get your feet flat and turn your heals out. Work on that and watch the majic.

The man knows of which he speaks...

Solid Dreams
08-17-11, 11:02 pm
I think the main reason why my left seems to be stronger than the right is because my right shoulder was really bugging me, so I'd feel it tweak and hit a wall.

Tiny1102
08-18-11, 1:37 pm
I don't know if we even addressed this or not, but are you looking to compete in powerlifting? Or are you in to bodybuilding? Cause if you want to move the most weight possible, those "you think you can bench" videos will help a ton. But if you are in to bodybuilding you probably want to bench to focus as much as possible on chest and should probably doing more dumbells and incline benching.

I really think bobybuilders should start benching using this form. There are so many other exercises to train chest. Pressing with your elbows flared out might build chest, but it is very bad for your shoulders. I know too many guy who have shoulder problems from benching using that form. Bring your elbows in. Incline, decline, cables, dips, and dumbells will build a lifters chest.

LegendKillerJosh
08-20-11, 12:33 pm
I really think bobybuilders should start benching using this form. There are so many other exercises to train chest. Pressing with your elbows flared out might build chest, but it is very bad for your shoulders. I know too many guy who have shoulder problems from benching using that form. Bring your elbows in. Incline, decline, cables, dips, and dumbells will build a lifters chest.

Good point. In fact, if I was a bodybuilder I probably wouldn't even do any flat benching, it would be smarter to stick with dumbells and incline benching since they build size well (longer range of motion) and are safer (less risk of injury). There are way too many people who tear shoulders benching.

However, finding the perfect form for your body will help prevent injury. I use to get elbow tendonitis bad, but I realized I wasn't bringing the bar out far enough over my stomach so my forearms were angled back and my wrists weren't directly above my elbows. Now that I've fixed that my elbows are fine. Plus I do a lot of warming up, stretching, and working with bands every upper body day and that has helped too.

Tiny1102
08-23-11, 10:05 am
Good point. In fact, if I was a bodybuilder I probably wouldn't even do any flat benching, it would be smarter to stick with dumbells and incline benching since they build size well (longer range of motion) and are safer (less risk of injury). There are way too many people who tear shoulders benching.

However, finding the perfect form for your body will help prevent injury. I use to get elbow tendonitis bad, but I realized I wasn't bringing the bar out far enough over my stomach so my forearms were angled back and my wrists weren't directly above my elbows. Now that I've fixed that my elbows are fine. Plus I do a lot of warming up, stretching, and working with bands every upper body day and that has helped too.

Another reason lifters have elbow issues is, because they lift too slow. It puts more stress on the elbows and tendons. While using speed you will feel much more on the muscles. Try it, you will be surprised.

LegendKillerJosh
08-24-11, 2:43 pm
Another reason lifters have elbow issues is, because they lift too slow. It puts more stress on the elbows and tendons. While using speed you will feel much more on the muscles. Try it, you will be surprised.

That's a good point too, i had a bad tendency to lower the weight very slowly even when i was lifting raw. I don't let it drop too fast though or else I'm dead and buried at the bottom, but I've started lowering as fast as i can while keeping it controlled.

Solid Dreams
08-24-11, 3:00 pm
I tried to spread my arms out and I'm still having some shoulder issues. So, the question is: should I go even wider? Back to the drawing board...

Tiny1102
08-24-11, 6:31 pm
I tried to spread my arms out and I'm still having some shoulder issues. So, the question is: should I go even wider? Back to the drawing board...

Do you bench with a arch? Do you keep your shoulders pinched back? What did you mean by tried spread my arm out?

Cellardweller
08-24-11, 9:57 pm
I just wanted to say this is an awesome thread. Thanks Solid, and everyone offering tips. I think alot of us are watching and learning.

Tiny1102
08-24-11, 10:01 pm
I just wanted to say this is an awesome thread. Thanks Solid, and everyone offering tips. I think alot of us are watching and learning.


Thanks. That is what we are here for.

Solid Dreams
08-24-11, 10:44 pm
Do you bench with a arch? Do you keep your shoulders pinched back? What did you mean by tried spread my arm out?

What I did was put my feet up and then arch up until my shoulders were shoved into the bench, then recreated that feeling of pressure. Then I tried to spread my hands out further because you said my grip was too close. I try to keep my shoulders pinched, on some things I was losing it because I was working on explosion with lighter weight and I'd lift myself off the bench.

Solid Dreams
08-24-11, 10:45 pm
I just wanted to say this is an awesome thread. Thanks Solid, and everyone offering tips. I think alot of us are watching and learning.

Hah, glad to be stupid at your service!

Cellardweller
08-24-11, 11:02 pm
Bullshit. You've got balls bigger than everyone too afraid to put themselves out there and ask for help. You're also smarter than those of us who think we know what we're doing and really don't. Respect bro.

Tiny1102
08-26-11, 1:00 am
What I did was put my feet up and then arch up until my shoulders were shoved into the bench, then recreated that feeling of pressure. Then I tried to spread my hands out further because you said my grip was too close. I try to keep my shoulders pinched, on some things I was losing it because I was working on explosion with lighter weight and I'd lift myself off the bench.

What is the shoulder issue? As for your hands, don't move them too far out. Pick a good weight to work with. Start with your normal grip. Stay with the weight and do a few sets. After each set, move your grip out a finger. Once you find the spot you like the most. Stay there and work with it.