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Carrnage
09-11-11, 5:32 pm
Really no secret, just a way of looking at things.

The ever elusive calf!

First, a quick anatomy lesson. The muscle termed "calves" is comprised of TWO muscles. The soleus, which lies deep, acts on the ankle joint. The Gastrocnemius(the round belly part), is more superficial, and in fact crosses the the ankle joint as well as the knee joint.

The anatomy of the muscle is extremely important when considering optimal form and execution.

SOLEUS:

When trying to isolate the soleus muscle, it is best to do so with a bent knee. This prevents the gastrocnemius from becoming too involved in the movement. The soleus is primarily made up of "slow twitch" muscle fibers which means that it best responds to a greater amount of Time under tension and slightly higher repetitions.

GASTROC:

The gastroc consists of a much greater percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers, which means...it needs heavy weights!

***One of the points I try to stress in all educational seminars and blog posts is that whenever you train a muscle, taking a muscle through as large a range of motion as possible("peak contraction"-bringing its two endpoints as close as possible AND/OR lengthening the muscle as much as possible) is ideal for muscle building. Heavy weight DOES NOT mean smaller repetitions!)***

As mentioned, the gastroc crosses the ankle joint and the knee joint. Which means, to optimally recruit this muscle, the exercise must atleast consider BOTH joints.

Many people ask what the optimal form is for calve recruitment, well here it is....

When performing any exercise for gastrocnemius:

1)When taking the ankle into a stretched position it is necessary to do so with a slightly bent knee to maximize the stretch or lengthening of the muscle. I sometimes encourage people to contract their tibialis anterior muscle(front of shin)at the bottom of the rep to ensure maximal stretch under control.

2)For a maximal contraction of the gastroc, the knee must be fully extended(YES I said it!) as you extend to a fully plantar flexed(toes pointed) position. To ensure safety while performing this exercise, I suggest actually contracting your quads at the same time as you extend your ankles(*Whoa coordination!!).

Give it a try, the contraction is ridiculous!

T R O U B L E S H O O T I N G:

1)if you have overly tight hamstrings, you will never develop big calves-stretch!

2)One of the most common mistakes is people raising up onto their outer toes rather than extending their ankles fully. I suggest raising up onto your BIG toe and even keeping your legs slightly "knock knee" (squeezing your thighs together while keeping feet shoulder width).

3)When trying this new program PLEASE slow down and be careful. Yes, taking your knees to full lock out can put you a slightly more risk. NOT if youre conscious and CONTROLLED!

4)Small range of motion=small calves. Yes heavy weights are cool, but not as cool as huge calves. Slow down, lighten up and learn the form through a full range. Weights will go back quickly.

REMEMBER-your body moves in patterns. It is necessary to teach your body how to move and learn these patterns before you can start increasing weight.

.Time for Growth Baby!

zubda345
09-12-11, 3:33 am
WOW I didn't know that. It seems that I was just putting both muscles under training at the same time that's y they don't grow awwwww.

But another thing. I don't seemed to get this: "When performing any exercise for gastrocnemius:

1)When taking the ankle into a stretched position it is necessary to do so with a slightly bent knee to maximize the stretch or lengthening of the muscle. I sometimes encourage people to contract their tibialis anterior muscle(front of shin)at the bottom of the rep to ensure maximal stretch under control.

2)For a maximal contraction of the gastroc, the knee must be fully extended(YES I said it!) as you extend to a fully plantar flexed(toes pointed) position. To ensure safety while performing this exercise, I suggest actually contracting your quads at the same time as you extend your ankles(*Whoa coordination!!).

Give it a try, the contraction is ridiculous!"

Can u explain this in a more simple and easy way??

Back To Basics
09-12-11, 5:43 am
Keep your knees as straight as possible, it puts more of a stretch on your calves and more pressure = more damage and growth.

Number one and number two say two different things haha.. One says bent knee the other says straight knee, go with straight knee.
Bigger stretch = better contraction.

Aggression
09-12-11, 8:44 am
Everyone tries to search for the secrets to building the calf. While some blame genetics, others refuse to give in, continually bashing them from all angles until the muscle itself has no other way out BUT to grow.

Here's a workout I found a while back ... it has been the most beneficial when it comes to soreness the following days and overall growth. It works for me, it may work for you ...

Standing Calf Raise
- 5 sets of 5 reps. Heavy weight. Each set should be a hard 5 reps. Power up, squeeze at the top for 2 seconds, come down slowly, about 3 seconds, stretch at the bottom for 2 seconds, then explode back up.

Seated Calf Raise:
- 3-4 sets of 10-15. Lighter weight. The tempo should be a bit quicker, but you still want to emphasize the stretch and squeeze.

Do this the RIGHT way and your calves will feel sore, no doubt. Do it 1-2x per week.

pushin weight
09-12-11, 9:05 am
The best thing ive found for my own calves is usin the leg press for calf raises, you get a much fuller range of motion and it seems to help me isolate the calves much better, i also throw some huge volume at calves with a hard squeeze at the top. I may do 6-7 sets of up to 25-30 reps.

J-Dawg
09-12-11, 9:07 am
This is some good info. Though, if you're not genetically gifted in the area of calves, don't expect the routines to work overnight. If you don't have calves, it takes years to build 'em up. But consistently hammering the two calf muscles hard week after week would be the way to go with variations in low and high reps.

D-NUTZ
09-12-11, 9:28 am
Here is a pretty awesome calf workout that does what Carnage talks about...

http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/137/no-more-wimpy-calves/

GUNS
09-12-11, 10:29 am
Carrnage, where is this article from?

zubda345
09-12-11, 10:56 am
keep your knees as straight as possible, it puts more of a stretch on your calves and more pressure = more damage and growth.

Number one and number two say two different things haha.. One says bent knee the other says straight knee.

exactly my point!!

unfettered
09-12-11, 7:21 pm
While your calf is stretched, your knee should be slightly bent.

As your contract your calf and push the weight up you should start to slowly lock your knee
So that by the time you have a full contraction, your knee will be locked. Flexing your quads will help to avoid injury and lock the knee

Big Wides
09-12-11, 9:14 pm
Some good points made all around, and one thing that I've found to help with calf development is to gain weight and maintain that weight for a good 6-8 months. The reason I say this is, think about how your calves work on a daily basis in just walking....if you are adding weight/size to your frame, your calves will need to adapt to it in order to walk. Also, squatting heavy for me over a period of time makes my calves grow faster than by doing calf raises.

But to each his own.....just throwing my 2 cents in

Carrnage
09-13-11, 1:42 am
Some good points made all around, and one thing that I've found to help with calf development is to gain weight and maintain that weight for a good 6-8 months. The reason I say this is, think about how your calves work on a daily basis in just walking....if you are adding weight/size to your frame, your calves will need to adapt to it in order to walk. Also, squatting heavy for me over a period of time makes my calves grow faster than by doing calf raises.

But to each his own.....just throwing my 2 cents in

Size Matters!

lol

unclejason
09-13-11, 1:46 pm
I do not by any means have genetically gifted calves but here's a couple things I know that happens for me:

#1 - When I started training calves every day (sometimes every other day), doing different exercises and a variety of rep ranges with full range of motion - my calves started growing.

#2 - If I don't hit calves frequently, they shrink. If I do not train them at least every other day, they only get to a certain point. If I follow #1 they get pushed over that edge of growth.

That may sound a bit unorthodox as far as overtraining vs rest but these 2 things are certainties when it comes to my calves.

Big Byrd
09-13-11, 8:25 pm
how does tight hammies hinder calf development?

very interesting about the bent knee for full stretch. i have trouble hitting my soleus/outer calf. standing, seated, donkey, heavy/light, slow/fast, full rom /partial... just cant isolate it. suggestions?

Pizzalamp
09-13-11, 8:51 pm
bros-you gotta think outside the box
if u want big arms, would u just do isolation moves? no, youd do big compound moves
so why are we trying to build big calves only using isolation moves?

dont forget sprinting, jumprope, prowler, hiking up mountains with heavy backpacks
but dont leave out calf raises either

Pizzalamp
09-13-11, 8:57 pm
how does tight hammies hinder calf development?

very interesting about the bent knee for full stretch. i have trouble hitting my soleus/outer calf. standing, seated, donkey, heavy/light, slow/fast, full rom /partial... just cant isolate it. suggestions?

u ever try squatting ass to heels on the back on the platform thats on the back of the incline barbell press-so your heels areahnging off the edge-holding onto the apparatus and leaning back staying on balls of your feet and doing calf raises like that-mimics the seated calf

Carrnage
09-13-11, 9:59 pm
bros-you gotta think outside the box
if u want big arms, would u just do isolation moves? no, youd do big compound moves
so why are we trying to build big calves only using isolation moves?

dont forget sprinting, jumprope, prowler, hiking up mountains with heavy backpacks
but dont leave out calf raises either

Because theres only isolation exercises for calves, if there were compound movements for calves alot of us would have dominate calves. Well I guess theres jump squats or other exercises that include more then 1 exercises in 1 movement, but i wouldnt recommend those for safety issues.

Sprinting? I agree! Years of basketball is where i credit my calf developement! Most people are under the impression that sprinting will lose/hinder muscle growth....Not True!

Jumprope? I feel most of us are in fear of someone watching us jumping rope looking like little girls, but i agree, jumping can do the trick.

Prowler/hiking are for fit people or in other words atheletes. Most people on here are fat, lazy, slow, bodybuilders(like me!!!) lol. I think sitting down on the couch watching tv with fast food in 1 hand and a soda on the other suits me, hah.

unclejason
09-14-11, 9:33 am
I think sitting down on the couch watching tv with fast food in 1 hand and a soda on the other suits me, hah.

Sounds like an extremely cool day! I'll sub the fast food with a huge plate of pasta and meatballs or some spicy Thai food.

Big Byrd
09-14-11, 11:39 am
u ever try squatting ass to heels on the back on the platform thats on the back of the incline barbell press-so your heels areahnging off the edge-holding onto the apparatus and leaning back staying on balls of your feet and doing calf raises like that-mimics the seated calf

cant say that i have...

Big Byrd
09-14-11, 11:40 am
Because theres only isolation exercises for calves, if there were compound movements for calves alot of us would have dominate calves. Well I guess theres jump squats or other exercises that include more then 1 exercises in 1 movement, but i wouldnt recommend those for safety issues.

Sprinting? I agree! Years of basketball is where i credit my calf developement! Most people are under the impression that sprinting will lose/hinder muscle growth....Not True!

Jumprope? I feel most of us are in fear of someone watching us jumping rope looking like little girls, but i agree, jumping can do the trick.

Prowler/hiking are for fit people or in other words atheletes. Most people on here are fat, lazy, slow, bodybuilders(like me!!!) lol. I think sitting down on the couch watching tv with fast food in 1 hand and a soda on the other suits me, hah.

Im in Memphis, TN... im sure i can find someone to help me learn DoubleDutch...

zubda345
09-14-11, 1:17 pm
Because theres only isolation exercises for calves, if there were compound movements for calves alot of us would have dominate calves. Well I guess theres jump squats or other exercises that include more then 1 exercises in 1 movement, but i wouldnt recommend those for safety issues.

Sprinting? I agree! Years of basketball is where i credit my calf developement! Most people are under the impression that sprinting will lose/hinder muscle growth....Not True!

Jumprope? I feel most of us are in fear of someone watching us jumping rope looking like little girls, but i agree, jumping can do the trick.

Prowler/hiking are for fit people or in other words atheletes. Most people on here are fat, lazy, slow, bodybuilders(like me!!!) lol. I think sitting down on the couch watching tv with fast food in 1 hand and a soda on the other suits me, hah.

Jumprope is one of the best thng which helped me lost alot of fat. most ppl ued to say souve started what girl do. Now I c them trying to lose fat using jumprope. Pussies. Ok jumprope USED to feel me on calves at the start and as tme passed it felt on calves lesser...

Enforcer
09-14-11, 1:25 pm
The best thing I have found for my calves in to train them as hard and heavy as I do every other bodypart. 10-12 sets with dropsets still thrown in, but all done with heavy weight keeping my reps in the 5-8 range. Every since I started doing it this way, my calves have improved dramatically. Right now I hit them twice a week, Tuesdays and Fridays.

Carrnage
09-14-11, 6:39 pm
Sounds like an extremely cool day! I'll sub the fast food with a huge plate of pasta and meatballs or some spicy Thai food.

2 dub cheese burgers from mcdonalds, 2 cups of white rice......that was my 2nd meal today. Yeah Buddy.

Big Byrd
09-14-11, 6:52 pm
The best thing I have found for my calves in to train them as hard and heavy as I do every other bodypart. 10-12 sets with dropsets still thrown in, but all done with heavy weight keeping my reps in the 5-8 range. Every since I started doing it this way, my calves have improved dramatically. Right now I hit them twice a week, Tuesdays and Fridays.

and what else do u have time to fit in? i used to do that when i added a second trip 4 days a week JUST for calves... who the hell has time for that anymore?!

Enforcer
09-14-11, 8:59 pm
and what else do u have time to fit in? i used to do that when i added a second trip 4 days a week JUST for calves... who the hell has time for that anymore?!

Got to make the time

MRmichael.hooker
09-14-11, 9:02 pm
Im in Memphis, TN... im sure i can find someone to help me learn DoubleDutch...

hey, were having an ABC in Jackson, TN Oct 1st. You wanna come?

Big Byrd
09-27-11, 5:10 pm
Got to make the time

or i could just be more efficient w my training and exercise selection....

Big Byrd
09-27-11, 5:11 pm
hey, were having an ABC in Jackson, TN Oct 1st. You wanna come?

want to, yes. can i, no. too much goin on right now.

Carrnage
11-05-11, 10:34 pm
Bump so all you jabroni's can grow some calves!

solomon_caine
11-05-11, 10:44 pm
the calf...

stick with the basics. it's like food; the basics make up most of the substance...the advanced techniques are the salt and pepper of it. so go for calf raises,..the calf raise machines are just there. and run,...yeah...run. may not work for me but there were people I told this to and they were pleased with the results.

genetics come in play too but anybody can ruin the gene pool by giving it everything on one set.

Carrnage
11-05-11, 10:48 pm
the calf...

stick with the basics. it's like food; the basics make up most of the substance...the advanced techniques are the salt and pepper of it. so go for calf raises,..the calf raise machines are just there. and run,...yeah...run. may not work for me but there were people I told this to and they were pleased with the results.

genetics come in play too but anybody can ruin the gene pool by giving it everything on one set.

What isnt basic for calves? You got seated calf raises for the soleus and calf presses/donkey raises/leg press calf press for the gastroc. Its the way you perform the movement that counts, that is the whole point of this thread, sorry if you didnt like it, I know you didnt say that, but it seems like you didnt like it.

zubda345
11-06-11, 12:47 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC2m1EeYkAU

This is the best I found for MYSELF so far. After i m done with it I can barely walk. Calves get burnt up like never before

benzbilly
11-07-11, 12:53 pm
Jumprope is one of the best thng which helped me lost alot of fat. most ppl ued to say souve started what girl do. Now I c them trying to lose fat using jumprope. Pussies. Ok jumprope USED to feel me on calves at the start and as tme passed it felt on calves lesser...

I actually can't really complain because my calf genetics are pretty good. My father hasn't been to a gym in probably 20 years and he has incredible calves. I have found that riding a bike is really good for your calves. When I was in high school I rode my bike to town for football weights and my calves got really defined. Also, there are a lot of Schwinn Armstrongs riding around the Denver/Boulder area. All of the riders that are serious about it have incredible calves. It seems like their calves make up 40% of their body weight. I guess that's not saying much cuz their all skinny as fucking rails but you get the drift

PORTERHOUSE
11-07-11, 2:04 pm
I actually can't really complain because my calf genetics are pretty good. My father hasn't been to a gym in probably 20 years and he has incredible calves. I have found that riding a bike is really good for your calves. When I was in high school I rode my bike to town for football weights and my calves got really defined. Also, there are a lot of Schwinn Armstrongs riding around the Denver/Boulder area. All of the riders that are serious about it have incredible calves. It seems like their calves make up 40% of their body weight. I guess that's not saying much cuz their all skinny as fucking rails but you get the drift

Schwinn Armstrongs haha... its true. Where you at in Denver man?

DEADn
11-07-11, 4:13 pm
"***One of the points I try to stress in all educational seminars and blog posts is that whenever you train a muscle, taking a muscle through as large a range of motion as possible("peak contraction"-bringing its two endpoints as close as possible AND/OR lengthening the muscle as much as possible) is ideal for muscle building. Heavy weight DOES NOT mean smaller repetitions!)***"


The key to this is 'ideal' I am thinking? I am working on controlled reps as I get back into weightlifting but also slower than I normally went in the past. Yet I have seen guys just starting doing reps and not doing them in a controlled fashion. Sometimes it seemed like the reps got in the way so they went through them fast. This includes some top bodybuilders. Do you think that leads to injury as a result?

Carrnage
11-07-11, 5:12 pm
"***One of the points I try to stress in all educational seminars and blog posts is that whenever you train a muscle, taking a muscle through as large a range of motion as possible("peak contraction"-bringing its two endpoints as close as possible AND/OR lengthening the muscle as much as possible) is ideal for muscle building. Heavy weight DOES NOT mean smaller repetitions!)***"


The key to this is 'ideal' I am thinking? I am working on controlled reps as I get back into weightlifting but also slower than I normally went in the past. Yet I have seen guys just starting doing reps and not doing them in a controlled fashion. Sometimes it seemed like the reps got in the way so they went through them fast. This includes some top bodybuilders. Do you think that leads to injury as a result?

Injury is the result of poor exercise execution. Period.

Lightnin'
11-08-11, 10:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC2m1EeYkAU

This is the best I found for MYSELF so far. After i m done with it I can barely walk. Calves get burnt up like never before

That vid was hilarious! I was rolling after that!

Wycked
11-08-11, 11:11 am
Really no secret, just a way of looking at things.

The ever elusive calf!

First, a quick anatomy lesson. The muscle termed "calves" is comprised of TWO muscles. The soleus, which lies deep, acts on the ankle joint. The Gastrocnemius(the round belly part), is more superficial, and in fact crosses the the ankle joint as well as the knee joint.

The anatomy of the muscle is extremely important when considering optimal form and execution.

SOLEUS:

When trying to isolate the soleus muscle, it is best to do so with a bent knee. This prevents the gastrocnemius from becoming too involved in the movement. The soleus is primarily made up of "slow twitch" muscle fibers which means that it best responds to a greater amount of Time under tension and slightly higher repetitions.

GASTROC:

The gastroc consists of a much greater percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers, which means...it needs heavy weights!

***One of the points I try to stress in all educational seminars and blog posts is that whenever you train a muscle, taking a muscle through as large a range of motion as possible("peak contraction"-bringing its two endpoints as close as possible AND/OR lengthening the muscle as much as possible) is ideal for muscle building. Heavy weight DOES NOT mean smaller repetitions!)***

As mentioned, the gastroc crosses the ankle joint and the knee joint. Which means, to optimally recruit this muscle, the exercise must atleast consider BOTH joints.

Many people ask what the optimal form is for calve recruitment, well here it is....

When performing any exercise for gastrocnemius:

1)When taking the ankle into a stretched position it is necessary to do so with a slightly bent knee to maximize the stretch or lengthening of the muscle. I sometimes encourage people to contract their tibialis anterior muscle(front of shin)at the bottom of the rep to ensure maximal stretch under control.

2)For a maximal contraction of the gastroc, the knee must be fully extended(YES I said it!) as you extend to a fully plantar flexed(toes pointed) position. To ensure safety while performing this exercise, I suggest actually contracting your quads at the same time as you extend your ankles(*Whoa coordination!!).

Give it a try, the contraction is ridiculous!

T R O U B L E S H O O T I N G:

1)if you have overly tight hamstrings, you will never develop big calves-stretch!

2)One of the most common mistakes is people raising up onto their outer toes rather than extending their ankles fully. I suggest raising up onto your BIG toe and even keeping your legs slightly "knock knee" (squeezing your thighs together while keeping feet shoulder width).

3)When trying this new program PLEASE slow down and be careful. Yes, taking your knees to full lock out can put you a slightly more risk. NOT if youre conscious and CONTROLLED!

4)Small range of motion=small calves. Yes heavy weights are cool, but not as cool as huge calves. Slow down, lighten up and learn the form through a full range. Weights will go back quickly.

REMEMBER-your body moves in patterns. It is necessary to teach your body how to move and learn these patterns before you can start increasing weight.

.Time for Growth Baby!

Great tips bro very thorough and well thought out. Drives me crazy seing people flicking very heavy weight with their toes @ the and walking around with pencil legs. I use half the weight of mosrt of these ppl and my calves are getting bigger all the time due to the fact that I train them with a bent knee and constant tension

PORTERHOUSE
11-08-11, 11:34 am
2 dub cheese burgers from mcdonalds, 2 cups of white rice......that was my 2nd meal today. Yeah Buddy.

McDonald's sucks man, you gotta hit up smashburger!

benzbilly
11-08-11, 11:38 am
Schwinn Armstrongs haha... its true. Where you at in Denver man?

112th & Sheridan. You?

Carrnage
11-08-11, 3:45 pm
McDonald's sucks man, you gotta hit up smashburger!

Yeah your right it does suck. I totally ditched fast food, ever since like a couple-few months ago haha. Use to eat it all the time, now just sick of it, I feel anything in moderation is ok depending on lifestyle, but I was literally eating fst food like everyday!

solomon_caine
12-03-11, 10:03 pm
What isnt basic for calves? You got seated calf raises for the soleus and calf presses/donkey raises/leg press calf press for the gastroc. Its the way you perform the movement that counts, that is the whole point of this thread, sorry if you didnt like it, I know you didnt say that, but it seems like you didnt like it.

no harm done. I like it better when you're the one giving advice. helps me learn more.

Carrnage
12-04-11, 8:06 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC2m1EeYkAU

This is the best I found for MYSELF so far. After i m done with it I can barely walk. Calves get burnt up like never before

Zubda don't watch that video, the man in that video is demonstrating horrible technique, yes he has good sized calves, it doesn't matter though, your not him.