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Carrnage
03-04-12, 7:37 pm
Evan was the best all around bodybuilder at the Arnold. Next to Dexter of course.

Dennis Wolf 2nd place? The man is huge, great structure, but no way he should of got 2nd, he should be behind Ben Pakulski.

Branch i'd say should be placed after Evan, maybe even after Dexter too. But knowing how bodybuilding is judged nowa days....I guess judging is correct.

Evan we still <3 you

conjugalburns
03-04-12, 8:32 pm
Evan was the best all around bodybuilder at the Arnold. Next to Dexter of course.

Dennis Wolf 2nd place? The man is huge, great structure, but no way he should of got 2nd, he should be behind Ben Pakulski.

Branch i'd say should be placed after Evan, maybe even after Dexter too. But knowing how bodybuilding is judged nowa days....I guess judging is correct.

Evan we still <3 you


couldn't agree with you more

NJC_Manhattan
03-04-12, 9:02 pm
Evan was the best all around bodybuilder at the Arnold. Next to Dexter of course.

Dennis Wolf 2nd place? The man is huge, great structure, but no way he should of got 2nd, he should be behind Ben Pakulski.

Branch i'd say should be placed after Evan, maybe even after Dexter too. But knowing how bodybuilding is judged nowa days....I guess judging is correct.

Evan we still <3 you

I'm no judge or expert, but that was bullshit

Jay
03-04-12, 10:07 pm
I'm no judge or expert, but that was bullshit

ANyone notice how pissed off dennis wolfe looked when getting second place. Everyone else, even jackson, put on a smile for the cameras. Not this guy.. Wolfe, who was sweating profusely during pre judging....

LegendKillerJosh
03-04-12, 10:13 pm
After looking at some photos I agree with the judging. Evan can be very proud of his third place. He looked very good and beating Dexter is a huge accomplishment. In my opinion Wolf's back looked very good. He has got some serious width especially in the picture I saw of him hitting the front double biceps, his lats looked like wings. I will say Evan has much better calves than Wolf, Wolf's looked nearly flat especially compared to the quads. I think Evan had better hams than Wolf as well. But, although Wolf's biceps are a little flatter than Evans I think he has better definition and more bicep/tricep separation. Wolf might have better delts, too. 3rd place is great Evan, good job. And $50k ain't a bad payday either.

Jay
03-04-12, 10:22 pm
and how about Fouad Abiad just randomly disapearing?

GUNS
03-05-12, 2:24 am
Evan beat Wolf for sure. Josh you said it best, Wolf has no calves. How can you judge a back shot and not judge the calves. It is an overall back shot. They might as well have been wearing leg warmers if they are not going to judge the calves.

I read that FB post by Fouad, he said he thought they were only going to call out top 6 and he said he though he was not in the running so he left. He made a huge apology to his fans and the judges/IFBB.

N. Motta
03-05-12, 2:44 am
Evan beat Wolf for sure. Josh you said it best, Wolf has no calves. How can you judge a back shot and not judge the calves. It is an overall back shot. They might as well have been wearing leg warmers if they are not going to judge the calves.

I read that FB post by Fouad, he said he thought they were only going to call out top 6 and he said he though he was not in the running so he left. He made a huge apology to his fans and the judges/IFBB.

Dennis MAY have beaten Evan, and I stress may, but there is no way Branch should have beat either of them. In my opnion, this email from Jim Manion, is a worthwhile argument; reposted from MD...

From: IFBB Professional Division
To: All IFBB Professional Members
Re: SYMMETRY & NATURAL AESTHETICS


Montreal, Canada, April 13, 2005: With a mandate from President Ben Weider, the Professional Committee and a team of expert advisors recently evaluated the issues associated with muscular development, such as size, SHAPE, density, separation and definition, IN RELATION TO SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS.

Certain objective criteria are involved in assessing symmetry and natural aesthetics in competitive bodybuilding. Of great significance are the qualities of BALANCE, PROPORTION AND THE OVERALL "FLOW" OF THE PHYSIQUE, INCLUDING CLASSIC ATTRIBUTES SUCH AS A DRAMATIC "V-TAPER"; from broad shoulders and a wide back to a STREAMLINED WAISTE AND A FLAT, MUSCULAR ABDOMEN. In addition, there should be balance between upper and lower body development, and harmony between the left and right sides of the body. These characteristics have been the hallmark of a bodybuilder’s physique for decades, and it is the intent of this Advisory Notice to reaffirm their significance.

DISTENDED ABDOMENS AND DISTORTED MUSCLES NEGATIVELY IMPACT UPON SYMMETRY and natural aesthetics and, therefore, detract from the overall physique. Athletes and judges are advised that MUSCLES SIZE AT THE EXPENSE OF SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS WILL NOT BE ASSESSED FAVOURABLY.

All inquiries regarding the IFBB Professional Division should be directed to:

Jim Manion
Chairman
IFBB Professional Division

Are you fucking kidding me????

While I have great respect for real bodybuilding, and real bodybuilders, pursuing a balanced, symmetrical and healthy looking physique; professional bodybuilding, specifically the contest circuit, is a fucking joke. I am forever convinced it is judged on a purely political basis, and the competitions themselves, are nothing more than a means to facilitate marketing, promotion and sales by the major corporations.

Shukin
03-05-12, 10:20 am
As a loyal Animal and Universal customer and supporter I would like to see Evan win but in my opinion, watching the live stream of both the prejudging and finals on Bodybuilding.com (not in person), I think the placing were correct. Branch was in sane looking, not the most genetically pleasing structure but definitely nailed conditioning, balance and all the rest. Though Evan has superior calves to Wolf, Wolf has a much better side chest, period. Though Wolf was carrying water in the prejudging he got better in the evening, Evan flattened out in the evening, when he first walked out (again on video, live stream) his abs were gone.

The area where they really beat Evan is in stage presence, he has the physique of an Arnold winner, but his stage presance is that of an amateur, he doesn't move smoothly around stage, had to be asked to move down a few times, etc. Now I am not saying I could do better, by no means, and I am not putting Evan down, I am just saying I don't think he got robbed. And furthermore, he has only a few things to work on, Chest and stage presence, with his work ethic that should be very possibly by the Olympia to place ahead of Wolf for sure.
Just my feelings, take them or leave them.

Much Respect to Evan, job well done.

NJC_Manhattan
03-05-12, 11:32 am
Dennis MAY have beaten Evan, and I stress may, but there is no way Branch should have beat either of them. In my opnion, this email from Jim Manion, is a worthwhile argument; reposted from MD...

From: IFBB Professional Division
To: All IFBB Professional Members
Re: SYMMETRY & NATURAL AESTHETICS


Montreal, Canada, April 13, 2005: With a mandate from President Ben Weider, the Professional Committee and a team of expert advisors recently evaluated the issues associated with muscular development, such as size, SHAPE, density, separation and definition, IN RELATION TO SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS.

Certain objective criteria are involved in assessing symmetry and natural aesthetics in competitive bodybuilding. Of great significance are the qualities of BALANCE, PROPORTION AND THE OVERALL "FLOW" OF THE PHYSIQUE, INCLUDING CLASSIC ATTRIBUTES SUCH AS A DRAMATIC "V-TAPER"; from broad shoulders and a wide back to a STREAMLINED WAISTE AND A FLAT, MUSCULAR ABDOMEN. In addition, there should be balance between upper and lower body development, and harmony between the left and right sides of the body. These characteristics have been the hallmark of a bodybuilder’s physique for decades, and it is the intent of this Advisory Notice to reaffirm their significance.

DISTENDED ABDOMENS AND DISTORTED MUSCLES NEGATIVELY IMPACT UPON SYMMETRY and natural aesthetics and, therefore, detract from the overall physique. Athletes and judges are advised that MUSCLES SIZE AT THE EXPENSE OF SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS WILL NOT BE ASSESSED FAVOURABLY.

All inquiries regarding the IFBB Professional Division should be directed to:

Jim Manion
Chairman
IFBB Professional Division

Are you fucking kidding me????

While I have great respect for real bodybuilding, and real bodybuilders, pursuing a balanced, symmetrical and healthy looking physique; professional bodybuilding, specifically the contest circuit, is a fucking joke. I am forever convinced it is judged on a purely political basis, and the competitions themselves, are nothing more than a means to facilitate marketing, promotion and sales by the major corporations.

The intent of the letter is great, but will it ever be practiced? Probably not.

Elite
03-05-12, 12:10 pm
Evan placed pretty fairly in my opinion. Great aesthetics, trim waist and a great physique to forge deep mature muscle onto in the next 5yrs, where he will hit get into his prime. He was slightly flat and i don't think it's his posing routine that lets him down as such, but how he hits each pose. Sometimes it never showcases his strengths. Like his front double bi, his arms appear too high up, which negates his width and shallows his upper lats. His most muscular, his body seems to contort in the middle, giving a twisted look. Evan is the smartest guy in the field and will get better with experience. He has improved in many areas since his last show, which he should and will be happy with. He's definitely on the right path

Cranky
03-05-12, 12:23 pm
ANyone notice how pissed off dennis wolfe looked when getting second place. Everyone else, even jackson, put on a smile for the cameras. Not this guy.. Wolfe, who was sweating profusely during pre judging....

Yeah, check out the post show interview w/ Shawn Ray over @ MD, Wolfe is DEF. pissed. I was rooting for Evan the whole show and wanted him to win, but I had him 2nd after Wolfe, and Branch picking up 3rd.

Shukin
03-05-12, 12:41 pm
Yeah, check out the post show interview w/ Shawn Ray over @ MD, Wolfe is DEF. pissed. I was rooting for Evan the whole show and wanted him to win, but I had him 2nd after Wolfe, and Branch picking up 3rd.

I just watched it, I think he is more confused than anything else, he doesn't know what the judges want.

N. Motta
03-05-12, 12:56 pm
I just watched it, I think he is more confused than anything else, he doesn't know what the judges want.

Silly Wolf. The judges want a bigger bribe! Either from him or his sponsor.

Oh that, and a an inspiring feel-good story.

LegendKillerJosh
03-05-12, 3:54 pm
Those of you saying Evan should have beat Dennis, why do you think that? I'm just curious, not looking to start arguments. I think Evan clearly had better calves and probably better hamstrings. But I think judges aren't so worried about those 2 muscle groups compared to others. I think Wolf had much wider lats, and back is probably the most important muscle group. I think Wolf had more defined arms than Evan and possibly better delts. Evan didn't have that much definition in his bicep/tricep separation. Overall I can agree with Dennis placing ahead of Evan. What do you guys think? This is a fun thread I like talking about classic bodybuilding stuff like this.

It reminds me of in the making of pumping iron it shows them all up posing on muscle rock and Arnold is showing everyone which poses he is going to hit to combat Lou's poses, to make sure he hides his weak points and shows off his strong points and shows just plain why he was better than Lou.

D-NUTZ
03-05-12, 4:03 pm
The way I saw it after carefully comparing pics..

1. Wolf
2. Evan
3. Branch
Everyone else

Wolf brought up a lot of weak spots and is just plane massive with a tiny waist. Evan looked great as well, but still 2nd behind Dennis. Even still needed more chest and a little more back width and he could of taken this.

zubda345
03-05-12, 4:16 pm
Dennis MAY have beaten Evan, and I stress may, but there is no way Branch should have beat either of them. In my opnion, this email from Jim Manion, is a worthwhile argument; reposted from MD...

From: IFBB Professional Division
To: All IFBB Professional Members
Re: SYMMETRY & NATURAL AESTHETICS


Montreal, Canada, April 13, 2005: With a mandate from President Ben Weider, the Professional Committee and a team of expert advisors recently evaluated the issues associated with muscular development, such as size, SHAPE, density, separation and definition, IN RELATION TO SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS.

Certain objective criteria are involved in assessing symmetry and natural aesthetics in competitive bodybuilding. Of great significance are the qualities of BALANCE, PROPORTION AND THE OVERALL "FLOW" OF THE PHYSIQUE, INCLUDING CLASSIC ATTRIBUTES SUCH AS A DRAMATIC "V-TAPER"; from broad shoulders and a wide back to a STREAMLINED WAISTE AND A FLAT, MUSCULAR ABDOMEN. In addition, there should be balance between upper and lower body development, and harmony between the left and right sides of the body. These characteristics have been the hallmark of a bodybuilder’s physique for decades, and it is the intent of this Advisory Notice to reaffirm their significance.

DISTENDED ABDOMENS AND DISTORTED MUSCLES NEGATIVELY IMPACT UPON SYMMETRY and natural aesthetics and, therefore, detract from the overall physique. Athletes and judges are advised that MUSCLES SIZE AT THE EXPENSE OF SYMMETRY AND NATURAL AESTHETICS WILL NOT BE ASSESSED FAVOURABLY.

All inquiries regarding the IFBB Professional Division should be directed to:

Jim Manion
Chairman
IFBB Professional Division

Are you fucking kidding me????

While I have great respect for real bodybuilding, and real bodybuilders, pursuing a balanced, symmetrical and healthy looking physique; professional bodybuilding, specifically the contest circuit, is a fucking joke. I am forever convinced it is judged on a purely political basis, and the competitions themselves, are nothing more than a means to facilitate marketing, promotion and sales by the major corporations.

Where in the blue did you find this???


I just watched it, I think he is more confused than anything else, he doesn't know what the judges want.

I looked some pics and denis looked great! He will be pissed ALOT


Silly Wolf. The judges want a bigger bribe! Either from him or his sponsor.

Oh that, and a an inspiring feel-good story.

Right on the money bro..


The way I saw it after carefully comparing pics..

1. Wolf
2. Evan
3. Branch
Everyone else

Wolf brought up a lot of weak spots and is just plane massive with a tiny waist. Evan looked great as well, but still 2nd behind Dennis. Even still needed more chest and a little more back width and he could of taken this.

I personally think Evan placing at 3rd was good... Idk Look at this:

http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/index.php?mode=viewphotos&divisioncode=2060&comparisons=yes
Now compare these 3... I think 1st was WolF 2nd was Branch and 3rd Evan is good... But I am not even satisfied with this... Ben, Dexter... They looked awesome. Until I see the full video I can't decide my personal places for these great hard-working men....

N. Motta
03-05-12, 4:21 pm
Where in the blue did you find this???

MD

LegendKillerJosh
03-05-12, 4:23 pm
Looking at more pics Evan could use some bigger traps as well. Branch's were really good, and Wolf's got good ones too.

Universal Rep
03-05-12, 4:28 pm
Did Ox get robbed? Dunno but this is the stuff of forum threads and water cooler talk. But wut I do know is that you'll never hear Ox make excuses about politics and this or that as to why he didn't win. Wut I know is that he's gonna work even harder for the next show and that's wut makes him who he is...

LegendKillerJosh
03-05-12, 4:34 pm
Did Ox get robbed? Dunno but this is the stuff of forum threads and water cooler talk. But wut I do know is that you'll never hear Ox make excuses about politics and this or that as to why he didn't win. Wut I know is that he's gonna work even harder for the next show and that's wut makes him who he is...

Well put, losing will only motivate him. Ox isn't even in his prime yet which should have the rest of the iffb pro's shaking in their boots.

D-NUTZ
03-05-12, 4:44 pm
Did Ox get robbed? Dunno but this is the stuff of forum threads and water cooler talk. But wut I do know is that you'll never hear Ox make excuses about politics and this or that as to why he didn't win. Wut I know is that he's gonna work even harder for the next show and that's wut makes him who he is...

QFT.

He came in better than last year, and I can guarantee that is a win in his book. Yes, he would of liked to get first, but if anyone watched his vids, it is all about beating yourself from last time. This being said, I also can guarantee that next time he steps on stage, he will look better than the 2012 Arnold Ox.

swaggchampp
03-05-12, 5:57 pm
The way i scene it is even shuld of been a toss up wth wolf and branch didnt hold his title by no means. A bigger note is when the cards r tht close the fans shuld get a chance to speak and vote so its not so political. Big ups to evan and im interested wat he has to say if he does. And wat his nxt pland aren

korn_fed
03-05-12, 10:50 pm
Did Evan really get robbed? Consider this: He moved up a spot from last year; beat Dexter Jackson who, although may not be in his prime any more, WAS a former Mr. Olympia, which is an achievement only a handful of people can say they have accomplished; And made major improvements, particularly in his chest, back, and legs. To me, Evan won this show, because he accomplished the one thing he set out to do, as he said it himself: Improve from his mistakes, and get better than he's ever been before, which he obviously has done. Evan's still young, and has got time on his side. He's already accomplished so much considering his age, and he has nowhere to go but up from here. I truly honestly believe, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on the Animal/Universal athletes bandwagon, that if Evan keeps the same state of mind that he is competing not to beat anyone else but instead to better himself, we will see the day that he is crowned the new Mr. Olympia. It may not be today, tomorrow, or in the next couple years, but I do think that it WILL happen.

As for branch...




http://pics.musculardevelopment.com/index.php?mode=viewphotos&divisioncode=2060&comparisons=yes


Where the fuck is your right lat bro?

N. Motta
03-05-12, 10:58 pm
Where the fuck is your right lat bro?

Don't even worry about it. Just remember, he's grainy! He's so grainy! He's bone dry and sooo grainy!!

korn_fed
03-05-12, 11:00 pm
Don't even worry about it. Just remember, he's grainy! He's so grainy! He's bone dry and sooo grainy!!

Ahhh shit I forgot that judges awarded more points for grainyness than for muscle symmetry... my bad!

GUNS
03-06-12, 3:42 am
I think we can all say he got robbed or he placed where he belonged, but I am ready to hear this from the man himself. Evan seems to clearly speak his mind. I would bet that his next interview, he will tell us all his thoughts. He is the only one who matters when it comes to his placing.

Carrnage
03-06-12, 3:57 am
Evan beat Wolf for sure. Josh you said it best, Wolf has no calves. How can you judge a back shot and not judge the calves. It is an overall back shot. They might as well have been wearing leg warmers if they are not going to judge the calves.

I read that FB post by Fouad, he said he thought they were only going to call out top 6 and he said he though he was not in the running so he left. He made a huge apology to his fans and the judges/IFBB.

Woa!! Didnt know that! Fouad has a awesome physque!

Tiger
03-06-12, 5:06 am
Evan still won - he got up there, looked amazing, displayed improvement, and everyone knows there's still a lot more to come... He may not have came 1st, but that doesn't mean he didn't win.

Madcat
03-06-12, 10:14 pm
No matter what Evan is a winner. I mean he has done more than I can ever dream of and I respect him so much for it. I did just watch the branch video from the post Arnold shoot on MD, and yeah, his right lat is toast. The whole upper section is gone.

Either way, it is what it is, we are not IFBB judges so we have to take what they say and go with it. I know that Evan will win the Arnold, and will win the Mr. O both many times in the future. I have no doubt at all about this.

Just wanted to make a comment after watching the MD video of Branch.

MRmichael.hooker
03-07-12, 9:09 am
Evan still won - he got up there, looked amazing, displayed improvement, and everyone knows there's still a lot more to come... He may not have came 1st, but that doesn't mean he didn't win.

this

MRmichael.hooker
03-07-12, 9:12 am
only comment i'll make about all this "evan has better calves than wolfe" that seems to keep getting posted, does this mean Erik Fankhouser and Ben Pakulski are better bodybuilders than Dexter Jackson? Dex doesn't have good calves at all, but he has a Mr. O title. I personally think a balanced bodtbuilder needs good calves, but they aren't going to be the difference between 1st and 2nd.

Shukin
03-07-12, 9:33 am
only comment i'll make about all this "evan has better calves than wolfe" that seems to keep getting posted, does this mean Erik Fankhouser and Ben Pakulski are better bodybuilders than Dexter Jackson? Dex doesn't have good calves at all, but he has a Mr. O title. I personally think a balanced bodtbuilder needs good calves, but they aren't going to be the difference between 1st and 2nd.

Interesting point. Arnold never had great legs at all. If it came down to calves many of us would be fucked. I think calves are one of those body parts you have or you don't. Evan does have better calves than wolf, is that a genetic thing? I know he put great efforts into them but how much do genetics play into the calves? I guess it all comes down to what the judges are looking for. I find both Evan and Wolf's genetic structures to be much more "pleasing" than Branch, but the guy popped like jiffy pop when he posed, it was like squeezing a water balloon, he was bulging every where, that was darn impressive.
I guess it comes down to top 3, either way it falls the 3 of them looked great. Remember too, Jay's calves were never anything to write home about.

I don't know enough about the judging system, but I watch lots of videos and listen to lots of podcasts, and they always talk about things like "is this the best Dexter Jackson we ever saw?" So, were they judging these guys at the Arnold against the guy standing next to them or to what they looked like last year or in the last contest.........?

Again this is why in mma and boxing they say "don't leave it in the hands of the judges, nock em out or submit them." Brian Shaw is the World's Strongest Man, but it is clear Mike Jenkins won the Arnold strongman, no doubts what so ever.....

GUNS
03-07-12, 10:09 am
only comment i'll make about all this "evan has better calves than wolfe" that seems to keep getting posted, does this mean Erik Fankhouser and Ben Pakulski are better bodybuilders than Dexter Jackson? Dex doesn't have good calves at all, but he has a Mr. O title. I personally think a balanced bodtbuilder needs good calves, but they aren't going to be the difference between 1st and 2nd.

I am just saying, there is a point when two guys look damn close. And at some point, you have to get down in the weeds and start picking them apart. When body part to body part they looked damn close, calve come into play. Wolf was also sweating like a hooker on payday! Definately holding some water. I agree calves dont win shows, until thats whats left to judge!

Aggression
03-07-12, 10:24 am
As U-Rep stated, this is all water cooler talk. People can bicker back and forth about who looked better, who had better symmetry, who posed better, etc. In the end, this sport is a judgement call. What the judges saw is one thing. What you may have seen was something else. If you guys were on the panel, maybe Evan would have won. If others were on the panel, maybe Branch would be #1 again. I think its pointless to parade around, attacking the judging in every show. Nothing will change it. Some like more aesthetic physiques, some like the mass monsters. I would have loved to see Evan win. But I'm also a huge Branch fan. I also liked seeing Dennis Wolf rise from the dead and place well. Bottom line; the only opinions that matter/have impact are those that sit on the judging panel the day of the show.

mritter3
03-07-12, 10:41 am
Evan still won - he got up there, looked amazing, displayed improvement, and everyone knows there's still a lot more to come... He may not have came 1st, but that doesn't mean he didn't win.

agreed....

Sprint
03-13-12, 10:57 am
Some valid points in here, good discussion back & forth

DetroitMuscle
03-13-12, 8:11 pm
I am a HUGE fan of Evan. I agree with a lot of what others on here are saying - keep in mind that politics come into play. Judges look for constant improvement from show to show. Look at how many shows Dennis and Branch have done compared to Evan. You have to admit that Wolf put the SICKEST package he has EVER put on stage together at this years classic and in my opinion beat branch.

I personally think that there was some really fucked up politics going on because Branch also got best poser award...if you look at his posing routine it had no organization to it...he just walked from one side of the stage to the other waving his arms up and down trying to get the crowd involved. Once again Wolf's well thought out posing routine beat branch.

While I feel bad for Evan, and trust me like mentioned before I wanted Evan to win hands down....I almost have to feel WORSE for Dennis because he truly won this show.

I am looking forward to Evan's shows in the future. I know he doesnt like to compete A LOT each year and likes to strategically pick his shows, and if thats what he likes and feels comfortable doing then he needs to stick with that...but IMO to win the judges over he may have to consider doing a couple shows a year to improve himself AND show the judges continual improvement.

Once again just to summarize, I love the OX - definitely in my top 3 fav bodybuilders, no hate or critique directed to him, just my opinion on what happened. Keep doing your thing Evan, your time will come to decimate and dominate all!

-ROb

Sprint
03-13-12, 8:20 pm
Havn't got the link now, but I saw an interview earlier on youtube with Evan talking about the show post-Arnold. Dated 2011, & he mentions he's got a baby on the way & how his family means everything to him.

I'd imagine he's adopted the same mindset this time. Far from being down about the result, he'll be immersing himself into his family life & taking a step back at what he needs to do to turn 3rd into 1st.

DetroitMuscle
03-13-12, 8:26 pm
Havn't got the link now, but I saw an interview earlier on youtube with Evan talking about the show post-Arnold. Dated 2011, & he mentions he's got a baby on the way & how his family means everything to him.

I'd imagine he's adopted the same mindset this time. Far from being down about the result, he'll be immersing himself into his family life & taking a step back at what he needs to do to turn 3rd into 1st.

O definitely. He is not down and out - and anyone that thinks he is...well they are taking crazy pills to put it nicely. Evan will dominate at some point there is not question in my mind.