View Full Version : The Last 10 Pounds
NJC_Manhattan
05-06-12, 4:26 pm
All,
I know there are other threads about this and I almost debated putting this in training, but here it goes....
I'm 6 feet, currently flux between 185-190 pounds, and BF 13% (fat clamps).
Diet: Switch between Inter-fast and 5-6 small meals (Around 2200-2300 cals a day. Macros: 60% protein, 30% fats, 10% carbs.)
Training: Resistance followed by prolonged cardio (20-30 mins at 75 max heart rate or HIIT)
Sups: Multi V, Fish oil, CLA, natty test booster, 5gs creatine, BCAA caps, Whey, Casein, no diuretics, nothing that is not OTC
I'm looking to drop the last 10 pounds. I think that would get me around 10% bf if not lower. I've tried dropping cals 10-20% and that just makes me flat. Tried upping cardio and that is just messing with my BMI and not fat %. Tried adding in a cheat meal, not really helping. Now I'm open to all ideas, but please don't go "Brah, you're 6 feet and under 200! LOLZ, up cals, up heavy compound movement, herp derp bro science herp derp". Basically, any training routine that could help? Possible mix up in diet?
Thanks all.
Your boy,
NJC
Carrnage
05-06-12, 5:38 pm
All,
I know there are other threads about this and I almost debated putting this in training, but here it goes....
I'm 6 feet, currently flux between 185-190 pounds, and BF 13% (fat clamps).
Diet: Switch between Inter-fast and 5-6 small meals (Around 2200-2300 cals a day. Macros: 60% protein, 30% fats, 10% carbs.)
Training: Resistance followed by prolonged cardio (20-30 mins at 75 max heart rate or HIIT)
Sups: Multi V, Fish oil, CLA, natty test booster, 5gs creatine, BCAA caps, Whey, Casein, no diuretics, nothing that is not OTC
I'm looking to drop the last 10 pounds. I think that would get me around 10% bf if not lower. I've tried dropping cals 10-20% and that just makes me flat. Tried upping cardio and that is just messing with my BMI and not fat %. Tried adding in a cheat meal, not really helping. Now I'm open to all ideas, but please don't go "Brah, you're 6 feet and under 200! LOLZ, up cals, up heavy compound movement, herp derp bro science herp derp". Basically, any training routine that could help? Possible mix up in diet?
Thanks all.
Your boy,
NJC
Haha don't worry about the meatheads giving you bro crap with being under 200 pounds, its just a number.
Looks like you got everything on point, how many times are you doing HIIT cardio a week? Only thing I can really recommend is dropping the low intensity stuff, and keep up with the HIIT, acetl-L-carnitine, green tea.
NJC_Manhattan
05-06-12, 5:55 pm
Haha don't worry about the meatheads giving you bro crap with being under 200 pounds, its just a number.
Looks like you got everything on point, how many times are you doing HIIT cardio a week? Only thing I can really recommend is dropping the low intensity stuff, and keep up with the HIIT, acetl-L-carnitine, green tea.
Whats up Carnage,
If I do HIIT, then I'll do it for 10 mins after weight training. So like 4-5 times a week. But normally I split low intensity cardio (elliptical, stair master, etc.) and HIIT.
I take L carintine as well, but I'll look into the green tea.
Thanks.
Carrnage
05-06-12, 6:00 pm
Whats up Carnage,
If I do HIIT, then I'll do it for 10 mins after weight training. So like 4-5 times a week. But normally I split low intensity cardio (elliptical, stair master, etc.) and HIIT.
I take L carintine as well, but I'll look into the green tea.
Thanks.
Honestly it seems like you got things on point, all I can say is keep it up, though if you were more concerned with losing weight without any concern of retaining muscle it would be a bit easier, but your looking to retain/gain muscle while drop bf right?
PORTERHOUSE
05-06-12, 7:35 pm
What does inter-fast mean? Like you said you switch btw inter fast and 5-6 small meals a day?
I like the fact that you listen to yourself and not anybody else!
NJC_Manhattan
05-06-12, 7:57 pm
Honestly it seems like you got things on point, all I can say is keep it up, though if you were more concerned with losing weight without any concern of retaining muscle it would be a bit easier, but your looking to retain/gain muscle while drop bf right?
Looking to retain and drop BF. I've found leans gains and dropping BF can be tough. But I'm willing to try anything.
What does inter-fast mean? Like you said you switch btw inter fast and 5-6 small meals a day?
I like the fact that you listen to yourself and not anybody else!
Inter-fast = Intermittent fasting. Basically, just feeding during a certain time of the day. All sorts of different splits here.
Thanks man
PORTERHOUSE
05-06-12, 10:04 pm
Looking to retain and drop BF. I've found leans gains and dropping BF can be tough. But I'm willing to try anything.
Inter-fast = Intermittent fasting. Basically, just feeding during a certain time of the day. All sorts of different splits here.
Thanks man
Ok yea I've heard of that, I don't really know anything about it.
It might help if you start thinking in terms of bf% and not lbs, like setting a bf% goal instead of a weight goal.
Has your diet stalled out? It sounds like it has, You said you were open to ideas so I'll give you my two cents:
I'd drop the intermittent fasting and come up with a base diet, something that is constant and easy to work with. I don't count calories or anything, and I couldn't give you my macro % breakdown because I have been doing this long enough to know what works for me (and I also think it's a little silly once you know what works), but I do know my portion sizes. Everything in grams, if my diet stalls, I can drop 10g carbs from every meal, if I feel flat and tired, I can add 10g, etc... if I stall, I always pull fats first.
According to your percentages, I would consider raising the carbs and dropping the fats down until you hit your bf% goal, then add the fats back in slowly. I am what you would call carb sensitive, plus I have a slow metabolism, but that doesn't mean I neglect them all together. I can grow with little calories, and cut with even less.
It sounds like you are kind of bouncing around treading water right now, and usually reworking the diet will bust you off a plateau. I have a sneaking suspicion the fasting may be doing this to you. One year during a cut I tried a carb cycling routine that required 3 no carbs days a week (non-consecutive), it killed me, I went flat, too tired, I dropped weight but looked softer and my bf% increased slightly, I was visibly over-dieted. Loosing weight with bf% increase is pretty much the worst thing that can happen... Adding back carbs helped fix the problem although it dictated my physique for quite a while.
I would do at least 6 squares a day, and I'd shoot for at least 7-8%, if your putting all this work into cutting, you may as well reap the rewards. Honestly, 10% really isn't that lean, IMO at least. You may end up lighter than you want, but scale weight is irrelevant anyways. Once you hit your goal, whatever you decide it to be, you can slowly bump carbs/fats and keep your cardio rolling, it's entirely possible to stay lean and make gains.
Also, don't fear cheats as long as your diet is rolling. I'm only on-diet 6 days a week, every saturday I go off diet and eat whatever the hell I want ALL DAY, candy, ice cream, pancakes, burgers, pizza taco bell...and I have a slow metabolism... and I went from 14% to 4% in 10 weeks... and only dropped 22 lbs... no lie. Just sayin.
NJC_Manhattan
05-07-12, 6:41 pm
Ok yea I've heard of that, I don't really know anything about it.
It might help if you start thinking in terms of bf% and not lbs, like setting a bf% goal instead of a weight goal.
Has your diet stalled out? It sounds like it has, You said you were open to ideas so I'll give you my two cents:
I'd drop the intermittent fasting and come up with a base diet, something that is constant and easy to work with. I don't count calories or anything, and I couldn't give you my macro % breakdown because I have been doing this long enough to know what works for me (and I also think it's a little silly once you know what works), but I do know my portion sizes. Everything in grams, if my diet stalls, I can drop 10g carbs from every meal, if I feel flat and tired, I can add 10g, etc... if I stall, I always pull fats first.
According to your percentages, I would consider raising the carbs and dropping the fats down until you hit your bf% goal, then add the fats back in slowly. I am what you would call carb sensitive, plus I have a slow metabolism, but that doesn't mean I neglect them all together. I can grow with little calories, and cut with even less.
It sounds like you are kind of bouncing around treading water right now, and usually reworking the diet will bust you off a plateau. I have a sneaking suspicion the fasting may be doing this to you. One year during a cut I tried a carb cycling routine that required 3 no carbs days a week (non-consecutive), it killed me, I went flat, too tired, I dropped weight but looked softer and my bf% increased slightly, I was visibly over-dieted. Loosing weight with bf% increase is pretty much the worst thing that can happen... Adding back carbs helped fix the problem although it dictated my physique for quite a while.
I would do at least 6 squares a day, and I'd shoot for at least 7-8%, if your putting all this work into cutting, you may as well reap the rewards. Honestly, 10% really isn't that lean, IMO at least. You may end up lighter than you want, but scale weight is irrelevant anyways. Once you hit your goal, whatever you decide it to be, you can slowly bump carbs/fats and keep your cardio rolling, it's entirely possible to stay lean and make gains.
Also, don't fear cheats as long as your diet is rolling. I'm only on-diet 6 days a week, every saturday I go off diet and eat whatever the hell I want ALL DAY, candy, ice cream, pancakes, burgers, pizza taco bell...and I have a slow metabolism... and I went from 14% to 4% in 10 weeks... and only dropped 22 lbs... no lie. Just sayin.
I'll give that a shot. Thanks
korn_fed
05-07-12, 10:59 pm
I dont know what your insulin sensitivity is like, but try giving carb cycling a shot. What Im currently doing is taking the most carbs on my legs day, moderate-high carbs on back/chest days, moderate carbs on shoulders/arms days, and low carbs on off days. its worked wonders for me cutting weight and retaining muscle, I went from a solid 230 in december to a lean mean fighting machine 205 in march/april. Im currently hovering around 205, while gaining mass and not gaining an oz of fat. On top of that, I would suggest drinking as much green tea as you can handle (it works wonders not just for fat loss, but for your metabolism, and overall mood and energy), putting cayene hot sauce on your food (boosts your metabolism), and possibly supplementing with straight yohimbine.
PORTERHOUSE
05-08-12, 4:18 pm
I dont know what your insulin sensitivity is like, but try giving carb cycling a shot. What Im currently doing is taking the most carbs on my legs day, moderate-high carbs on back/chest days, moderate carbs on shoulders/arms days, and low carbs on off days. its worked wonders for me cutting weight and retaining muscle, I went from a solid 230 in december to a lean mean fighting machine 205 in march/april. Im currently hovering around 205, while gaining mass and not gaining an oz of fat. On top of that, I would suggest drinking as much green tea as you can handle (it works wonders not just for fat loss, but for your metabolism, and overall mood and energy), putting cayene hot sauce on your food (boosts your metabolism), and possibly supplementing with straight yohimbine.
How do you do green tea? I've always considered adding it in because so many guys swear by it but I never got around to it. Do you buy the teabags and just brew a shitload, or is there an already made kind out there that is cheap and not full of sugar?
Yohimbe is a pretty debatable supplement, some guys really like it, for other guys it can cause severe side effects like anxiety and panic attacks. The only yohimbe I have ever had was in animal test, I didn't notice anything in particular, but it's something I would approach with caution.
korn_fed
05-08-12, 10:56 pm
How do you do green tea? I've always considered adding it in because so many guys swear by it but I never got around to it. Do you buy the teabags and just brew a shitload, or is there an already made kind out there that is cheap and not full of sugar?
Yohimbe is a pretty debatable supplement, some guys really like it, for other guys it can cause severe side effects like anxiety and panic attacks. The only yohimbe I have ever had was in animal test, I didn't notice anything in particular, but it's something I would approach with caution.
I just brew the tea one cup at a time, ill probably go through about three cups a day. I just use my keureg coffee maker, and leave out any coffee k-cups, and it spews hot water within 45 seconds. Convenient fat burner on the fly right there!
And as for the yohimbine, I've used it in a dissolvable tablet form from a different company before, and it gave me horrible stomach cramps. I decided to give it a shot in capsule form (yohimbine HCL), and I havent had a problem since. I dont even feel any extra energy from it to tell you the truth, but once I started supplementing with it, the fat literally dropped off, coupled with a strict diet and plenty of HIIT cardio, of course. I take 2.5 mg in the morning and 2.5mg before my cardio workouts, its worked like a charm!
violator
05-09-12, 2:23 am
How long u been dieting?
for ur bodyweight, 2200-2300 cals isnt really super-low.... If its more than 12-14 weeks, then u prolly just got low leptin and need a break from the diet before u burnout.
C.Coronato
05-09-12, 11:02 am
Whats up my brother!
What is the actual diet looking like now?
How do you do green tea? I've always considered adding it in because so many guys swear by it but I never got around to it. Do you buy the teabags and just brew a shitload, or is there an already made kind out there that is cheap and not full of sugar?
Yohimbe is a pretty debatable supplement, some guys really like it, for other guys it can cause severe side effects like anxiety and panic attacks. The only yohimbe I have ever had was in animal test, I didn't notice anything in particular, but it's something I would approach with caution.
Universal has Thermo Green Tea caps. I use that when dieting, personally. Much easier than brewing.
Solid Dreams
05-09-12, 11:36 am
There's ready made stuff that doesnt have a ton of sugar (I cant remember off the top of my head, but it has acai fruit in it because everything has acai fruit). But I agree with C, it's a lot easier to just take the caps.
I've read that once you get to a certain point yohimbe can actually inhibit the fat loss, don't know though. It made me a little more aggressive than usual, but I think that's just a placebo effect because I was told it could.
NJC_Manhattan
05-09-12, 2:41 pm
How long u been dieting?
for ur bodyweight, 2200-2300 cals isnt really super-low.... If its more than 12-14 weeks, then u prolly just got low leptin and need a break from the diet before u burnout.
Been dieting for a while. I never really go on a 'bulk' or a 'cut'. I just modify my diet where I need to. I may try dropping cals below 2k and see how that goes. In a sense, I'm chasing unicorns (high BMI, under 10% BF).
Whats up my brother!
What is the actual diet looking like now?
Universal has Thermo Green Tea caps. I use that when dieting, personally. Much easier than brewing.
I'll call you by your original name TTL... ha. How's all going? You still killing it or what?
My actual diet; (sample as I can't eat the same shit everyday)
If doing 5-6 meals
Meal 1: 1/4 cup oats, 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 3 egg whites, 1 strip turkey bacon, 1 slice Ezekiel bread handful of baby spinach
Meal 3: 6-8oz white meat, handful of baby spinach
Meal 4: Pre-workout, half a banana, 1 tbsp natty almond butter, 1/4 cup oats, 1/4 cup liquid egg whites, 1 scoop whey. Blend that up
Meal 5: Post-workout, half a banana, 2 scoops whey, tons of water
Meal 6: 6-8oz white meat or fish with a green or sometimes 1-2 eggs on a slice of Ezekiel bread
If doing intermittent-fasting (will take BCAA caps, a greens sup, etc. during the day)
Meal 1: Post workout. 12oz meat, 2 bananas, some kind of whole grain or rice
Meal 2: 3 scoops whey, 1/2 cup oats, 1/4 cup milk, 3 liquid egg whites. Blend that up
Meal 3: Same as meal 2
Then just add my supps into that mix as mentioned earlier
There's ready made stuff that doesnt have a ton of sugar (I cant remember off the top of my head, but it has acai fruit in it because everything has acai fruit). But I agree with C, it's a lot easier to just take the caps.
I've read that once you get to a certain point yohimbe can actually inhibit the fat loss, don't know though. It made me a little more aggressive than usual, but I think that's just a placebo effect because I was told it could.
Interesting. I'll take a look, but as we know... anything that says 'STEROID LIKE GAINS BRAH!' or 'Cuts like Clen!!!' is most likely snake oil.
PORTERHOUSE
05-09-12, 7:44 pm
Universal has Thermo Green Tea caps. I use that when dieting, personally. Much easier than brewing.
I'll definitely look into that, thanks man.
In a sense, I'm chasing unicorns (high BMI, under 10% BF).
Everyone on here has got a high BMI, it's an irrelevant measuring tool for bbing. Not unicornish at all.
korn_fed
05-09-12, 10:41 pm
Everyone on here has got a high BMI, it's an irrelevant measuring tool for bbing. Not unicornish at all.
According to my doctor and his little BMI scale, I'm clinically obese... yet I have <10% bodyfat. Irrelevant is an understatement
PORTERHOUSE
05-10-12, 9:14 am
According to my doctor and his little BMI scale, I'm clinically obese... yet I have <10% bodyfat. Irrelevant is an understatement
Your starting to confuse me haha. If you know it doesn't factor in muscle mass and is irrelevant for us, you don't need to worry about it. Most of us on here are clinically obese and low bf%, I'm 4% right now.
Honestly BMI is so dated I don't understand why they use it for anyone, I have heard of guys having trouble getting health insurance because of high BMI's when they were ripped to shreds.
I did hear one interesting argument about it though, which was that the BMI calls someone overweight, and it doesn't matter about bf%, if your overweight from muscle there are still some health consequences similar to that of being fat, like strain on the heart... so I dunno, like anything else, I guess we need more research.
The Prodigy
05-11-12, 2:39 am
switch to keto should help for the last 10lbs or so greatly...up it to ~45% fat and ~55% protein
NJC_Manhattan
05-11-12, 11:15 am
switch to keto should help for the last 10lbs or so greatly...up it to ~45% fat and ~55% protein
I'm a natural athlete. So I don't want to go keto. Also, got tested at quest diagnostics and mentioned keto. They said for the way my body process nutrients, that I could be "rolling the dice" with my health if I try it.
But I know the results from keto speak for themselves .
C.Coronato
05-11-12, 1:14 pm
I'll call you by your original name TTL... ha. How's all going? You still killing it or what?
My actual diet; (sample as I can't eat the same shit everyday)
If doing 5-6 meals
Meal 1: 1/4 cup oats, 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 3 egg whites, 1 strip turkey bacon, 1 slice Ezekiel bread handful of baby spinach
Meal 3: 6-8oz white meat, handful of baby spinach
Meal 4: Pre-workout, half a banana, 1 tbsp natty almond butter, 1/4 cup oats, 1/4 cup liquid egg whites, 1 scoop whey. Blend that up
Meal 5: Post-workout, half a banana, 2 scoops whey, tons of water
Meal 6: 6-8oz white meat or fish with a green or sometimes 1-2 eggs on a slice of Ezekiel bread
If doing intermittent-fasting (will take BCAA caps, a greens sup, etc. during the day)
Meal 1: Post workout. 12oz meat, 2 bananas, some kind of whole grain or rice
Meal 2: 3 scoops whey, 1/2 cup oats, 1/4 cup milk, 3 liquid egg whites. Blend that up
Meal 3: Same as meal 2
Then just add my supps into that mix as mentioned earlier
.
Haha, the one and only! TTL 4 Life! haha. All is well my brother, doing my best to keep at it!
Ok these are just suggestions, based on what I can see to drop the extra weight, that may, or may not work.
Pull out the bacon, Ezekiel bread, and fruit. All are great, and I do enjoy both, but you may need to cut down on it to drop that extra 10lbs.
I know I also cut out most fats as I get closer to a show as well, it sucks, and most likely isnt ideal from an energy standpoint, but it does let that extra weight come out.
So i would suggest something along these lines:
Meal 1: 1/4 cup oats, 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 6 egg whites baby spinach
Meal 3: 6-8oz white meat, handful of baby spinach
Meal 4: Pre-workout, 1/2 cup oats, 1/4 cup liquid egg whites, 1 scoop whey. Blend that up
Meal 5: Post-workout, 2 scoops whey, tons of water
Meal 6: 6-8oz white meat or fish with a green
Something along those lines.
PORTERHOUSE
05-11-12, 1:17 pm
I know I also cut out most fats as I get closer to a show as well, it sucks, and most likely isnt ideal from an energy standpoint, but it does let that extra weight come out.
Me too, by the end, I eat virtually zero. Not something you want to do long term, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. As soon as I pull fats, I notice an instant drop in bf%.
HulkSlam
05-11-12, 1:41 pm
Only thing i could see diet wise is drop the fats like a few hve said.
For HIIT try
5 min warm
45 sec all out 15 sec 40% x 20
5 min cool down
Start w that 2x a week and go up as needed. Works for me
NJC_Manhattan
05-11-12, 11:00 pm
Haha, the one and only! TTL 4 Life! haha. All is well my brother, doing my best to keep at it!
Ok these are just suggestions, based on what I can see to drop the extra weight, that may, or may not work.
Pull out the bacon, Ezekiel bread, and fruit. All are great, and I do enjoy both, but you may need to cut down on it to drop that extra 10lbs.
I know I also cut out most fats as I get closer to a show as well, it sucks, and most likely isnt ideal from an energy standpoint, but it does let that extra weight come out.
So i would suggest something along these lines:
Meal 1: 1/4 cup oats, 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 6 egg whites baby spinach
Meal 3: 6-8oz white meat, handful of baby spinach
Meal 4: Pre-workout, 1/2 cup oats, 1/4 cup liquid egg whites, 1 scoop whey. Blend that up
Meal 5: Post-workout, 2 scoops whey, tons of water
Meal 6: 6-8oz white meat or fish with a green
Something along those lines.
Oh man! No more turkey bacon and Ezekiel? Ha
Alright, I'll give it a shot. Maybe try it for a few weeks and see where I'm at.
Only thing i could see diet wise is drop the fats like a few hve said.
For HIIT try
5 min warm
45 sec all out 15 sec 40% x 20
5 min cool down
Start w that 2x a week and go up as needed. Works for me
Thanks man. I'll try it out.