PDA

View Full Version : Mind-Muscle Connection, Tension, etc.



Solid Dreams
06-14-12, 11:15 am
Hey fellas, I've been working on slowly getting down how to feel the muscle, not just the weights, being moved.

Could you guys toss out some ideas for how you get that connection for each body part? For instance, I sort of have chest figured out (push ups: go down, then instead of pushing myself up, imagine pushing the world away), but I'd like to pick some brains for everything.

Obvious problem areas for me are legs and back, but everything helps.

Appreciate it, guys!

Madcat
06-14-12, 12:21 pm
I just changed up my training to more of this sorta style since the Arnold. I had been trying to add mass before then, and finally realized I just don't have the genetics, or ability to eat enough to add the clean mass I had been trying, so I figured I'd change up to this and try to really get the muscles to grow vs. adding bad mass.

I find that focusing on keeping the tension constant is really helpful, while going with lighter weights. For instance, military DB, I dropped about 15lbs off what I normally would use for 6-8reps, and started to go for 12 controlled slow reps, while keeping from locking out at top or bottom. I do that with about all my exercises now. I may do 1 heavy set but I keep tension on the muscle group at all times in the other sets, with lighter weight. I also notice Im sweating way more and keeping my heart rate up which is a plus.

I think a lot of it is just focusing on what you are doing and leaving the ego at the door.

Joe J
06-14-12, 4:00 pm
I believe massively slowly down your rep style to 4 seconds each way (including the contracted position) and at the same time visualize the function and movement of the muscle whilst your body acts upon this thought by executing the movement.

PORTERHOUSE
06-14-12, 5:58 pm
For me it's sort of hard to put in to words, but it is an incredibly important concept to learn. It is a combination of knowing how to keep constant tension and knowing the effective range of motion, as well as knowing the natural motion of each move, i.e., the purpose of each muscle's job for general movement. It is always easiest for me to teach it with bench press.

I train people to unrack and slowly load the weight over the chest as far down as you can go, you should feel a maximum stretch through out the pectorals here. Then, while holding that tension push up until the chest is fully extended, short of lock out, all the while forcing that tension into the muscle. Form there, reload the weight at the bottom of the movement and repeat. It sort of feels like a ever action, or like loading and then releasing a spring. There is never any point in the movement that my chest is not under tension. It's much easier to show by example than to type out for me, but I hope this somewhat helps.

rev8ball
06-14-12, 6:46 pm
Awesome thread idea. Looking forward to the input....

Solid Dreams
06-14-12, 10:49 pm
Awesome thread idea. Looking forward to the input....

Yeah, I realized one of the things that makes pros, well, pros (besides the fact that they get freaky with their genetics) is they all seem to have an innate understanding of MMC, and how to get things to activate. You look at Ronnie, Kai Greene, Evan and the rest, and it's like they all just know how to do stuff.


But then there's guys like me, who don't. I'm tired of jerking weights around, I want to do it right so I can continue on my journey to be big and bad.

I sort of understand what you're saying Porterhouse, got bench today so I'm going to try it out.

Mad, don't tell yourself you can't cause of genetics! I fully believe we can all get freaky, we just have to work harder (which is it's own reward and satisfaction, right?) I do believe that if I don't learn how to do the MMC, I'm always going to be a step behind, so I have to nail it.

And I'm glad I have this forum of brothers that I can rely on to help me out.

Lifting_Is_Life
06-15-12, 2:04 am
Okay, well for quads, try to drive your knees out once your feet are properly set firm, you'll notice that it'll activate much more quad. Plus more of a shoulder width stance can help out a lot. For chest, to work on this form, you can use a box. Place your hands on the outside of it with your thumb and index finger on top of it, when you try to your push ups, DRIVE into the box and instead of pushing yourself up or the earth down, think about how your elbows drive inward which will cause you to fully extend your arms and complete your rep. Sets of 20 reps will literally pump the shit out of your chest. Once your onto the bar, drive your hands in on the bar on the negative portion which activates the chest. On pulling exercises, I think the main thing that works for me is going very heavy(in terms of how it feels using form) and driving your hands outward on the negative portion of the lift.

Moodyanimo
06-15-12, 2:56 am
Recently I've been getting better at the Mind-Muscle connection as well. It was kind of hard for me to really engage the back muscles but I read somewhere to imagine your hands as just hooks. Then your entire forearms are gone and you're just pulling with your elbows. It helped me but someone else might have a better way to explain it.

Tiger
06-15-12, 7:28 am
One thing I started doing for a few weeks to get used to this was squeezing certain exercises for up to 6 seconds.

For example, Lat Pulldowns, I put the weight down and on every rep I'd squeeze my lats for 6 seconds... This got me my first ever back pump, and since then I've been much more in tune with my back.

Slow the negative down, peak tension for min 2 seconds and then explode up is what I've been doing more recently. Been getting some serious pumps.

Joe J
06-15-12, 11:21 am
One thing I started doing for a few weeks to get used to this was squeezing certain exercises for up to 6 seconds.

For example, Lat Pulldowns, I put the weight down and on every rep I'd squeeze my lats for 6 seconds... This got me my first ever back pump, and since then I've been much more in tune with my back.

Slow the negative down, peak tension for min 2 seconds and then explode up is what I've been doing more recently. Been getting some serious pumps.

This is without a doubt the most efficient way order each portion of your rep.

IRN-NML
06-15-12, 1:27 pm
Good topic and good posts madcat, porterhouse, tiger, among some. It's one thing to find your own muscle connections and can be tougher to always put them in practice. Couple of suggestions. Find a slow day or time at the gym and not only leave your ego at home, leave it overseas and experiment with lighter than normal weights & higher reps; say 10-15 where near the end of the set you really feel like you hit the target muscle and not everything else.

Case in point, with the good 'arms as hooks' tip; work on bent over barbell rows; over or underhand and be conscience of your lats doing the pulling & not upper arm, lower arm or grip. Go for full range; bottom to top. Can also be applied to bicep/tricep work.

For chest,not sure if this applies, but I've seen a few articles on extensive, minute details on just getting yourself set on the bench properly and holding everything in your body in that position for the duration of the set, only moving the weight up and down to your chest. I think Dave Tate and or Rippetoe have done articles on this as well as the pros here; just can't remember the names. At your own gym, if there are any honestly big number benchers, try to observe how they set themselves up, paying attention to them through the set and not the amount of weight. If you can, get some in gym tips from any of the guys who you feel have got the mind muscle connection down and again, experiment on your own vs reading a ton of stuff online.

One last quick point, a while back one of the solidly built guys in the gym was doing a set of flyes with 40lb dumbbells. It kind of looked like he was straining with what I'd thought would be a light weight for him. He wasn't gassed after the set which got me to thinking he made those 40 pounders deliberately hit the pecs through every rep of the set; muscle connection, time tension, isolation; whatever you want to call it for the most effect.

Hope some of this helps.

Solid Dreams
06-15-12, 1:35 pm
It does, and I try the back connection stuff (imagine hooks, etc) but I havent tried the pull apart bit.

I'm kind of getting frustrated because I feel like even if I nail it, when I don't get sore I worry that I'm doing it wrong, because some days I do and some days I don't.

Legs, if I do GHRs my hammies get sore, but I can't get my quads to get sore at all, same with back.

Gonna try the pushing my knees out bit on leg day and push apart for back.

Keep em coming! For biceps, I tend to just squeeze whatever I'm going to curl as hard as I can so that my biceps are already popped: is there anything you guys do for tris?

GUNS
06-15-12, 1:48 pm
I feel this is one of them subjects where everyone can try to describe how to do it, but it to me, is one of those things that either you get right off the bat, or takes time to learn. I feel like I picked it up really early. As where some others it just takes a while. I honestly dont think anyone on here can tell you how to do this. If one of us were there training with you, now thats a different thing!

PORTERHOUSE
06-15-12, 3:05 pm
I feel this is one of them subjects where everyone can try to describe how to do it, but it to me, is one of those things that either you get right off the bat, or takes time to learn. I feel like I picked it up really early. As where some others it just takes a while. I honestly dont think anyone on here can tell you how to do this. If one of us were there training with you, now thats a different thing!

I agree, I tried to type up an explanation but honestly I feel it's kind of like trying to explain the color red to a blind person. Fortunately, the term itself implies the basis of success "mind muscle connection" implies that you need to be aware of what the muscle is doing, not what the weight is doing.

I was one of those guys that had to work at it, I used to just go in there and sling weights all over the place like a dipshit, but I now realize mmc is more important really than anything else on the gym floor. If you can make a light weight feel heavy, you're moving in the right direction.

For me, it's an ever-evolving process, I am always working on placing everything exactly the way I want. I tend to dance around a little bit before I pick something up, but that's just me trying to feel completely even.

GUNS
06-15-12, 3:12 pm
Yeah, I think we all, at the beginning, were just moving weight. And like you said, as Ive got older, and working through injuries and things, I could make 5lb DB's work for me if I needed too. And I think that is where people(including myself) get caught up trying to use the heaviest weights all the time. In recent years, and chatting with, and watching Vinny G, I really have gotten better with it.

rbowman91
06-15-12, 3:36 pm
Incorporating negative reps into my training style was definitely the biggest help in connecting with muscle. sometimes i had to lower my poundages, but got a better pump regardless. however, im bodybuilding and not powerlifting, so I guess that would depend on your style. i use 5 second negatives. the muscle can handle more load on the negative portion anyway, so forced negative reps with a spotter helps immensely.

greatkeen
06-16-12, 2:14 am
not to stir controversy...

i myself focused on mmc..good form...feeling the muscle...chasing the pump... made good gains too...

but the real turning point and most rapid gains i got were, when i dropped the above and just focused on increasing the weights ... doing only compounds and very very limited iso work.

and i am no power lifter nor are my lifting numbers great by any measure...

Carrnage
06-16-12, 3:44 am
Hey fellas, I've been working on slowly getting down how to feel the muscle, not just the weights, being moved.

Could you guys toss out some ideas for how you get that connection for each body part? For instance, I sort of have chest figured out (push ups: go down, then instead of pushing myself up, imagine pushing the world away), but I'd like to pick some brains for everything.

Obvious problem areas for me are legs and back, but everything helps.

Appreciate it, guys!

Glad you started this thread!

Chest**
-on db presses, use a slightly wider than shoulder width grip, and on the concentric, have a slight in internal rotation......CRAZY CONTRACTION
-on barbell presses, on the negative shove your hands in, obviously don't let them come together, on the concentric keep your hands shoving inwards

Back**
-Similar to chest, on barbell rows, shove the hands outwards! (applys to pulldowns / chins aswell)

Quads**
-On squats, keep the glutes contracted through the entire rep, and press through your heels, you should feel a crazy stretch and contraction in your quads in every rep, put a 2.5 pound plate under your heels if you lack flexibility (this applies for hacks , leg presses aswell)

Delts**
-Keep abdominal short, contracted, tensed
-On barbell presses make sure to include the "head tuck" on the concentric to ensure overall delt recruitment is maximized

Triceps**
-Shove outwards on your close grip bench presses

Calves**
-For gastroc movements, keep your legs with a very slight bent knee
-For soleus movements, keep your legs with a bent knee

Since we are after hypertrophy / strength, we shall stick with a 3-4 second negative, 0 second isometric pause, and a explosive 1 second positive to thrash the fast twitch fibers, a good way to ensure this is to come to a deadstop on every rep(do this in a power rack), caution.....prepare for the biggest pumps of your life when applying this!

**Take home notes**
-Always vary the grip / foot position with your exercises, different firing patterns for your Peripheral Nervous System will recuit different fibers, so variety is key!
-I only listed the high threshold exercises because thats what you should be focusing on!
-Lifting with super heavy weight is awesome! But what is more awesome is if you put more emphasis on the targeted muscle so you can actually pack on muscle mass FAST! You WILL have to lower your weights when training "properly" for hypertrophy.