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Joe J
07-03-12, 7:04 am
Hi guys,

Over the last couple of days I've been getting a bit confused and I'm after some information. I have always assumed that as PWO is the most important time to take in carbs, my PWO shake has included the highest amount of carbs then any other meal of the day, and to do this I use dextrose.

I've been slowly upping my macros in accordance with my weight gain and I'm currently sitting at 510g carbs on my high days, and 410g carbs on my medium days. On my high carb days I take in 150g dextrose PWO, and on my medium I take in 120g dextrose. Is there any issue with this? Should I measure my dextrose by the amount of sets I perform? Or just keep it how i've got it in terms of macros?

Cheers,
Joe.

C.Coronato
07-03-12, 9:08 am
Everyone will have different principles. 150g of dextrose post is a ton of carbs. What is the rest of the day looking like? Personally, i just try to evenly split the carbs up throughout the day. So if you're having 6 meals with 500g carbs total, each meal will have 85g, but that still seems like a ton to me. How much do you weigh and what does the rest of your diet look like?

Aggression
07-03-12, 9:13 am
If it's working for you, then keep at it. That sounds like a fuckton of carbs postWO. I'm 230lbs at 5'9'' and no matter what diet I'm doing, my carb intake postWO ranges from 40-80 with carbs added in other meals as well. But as CC said, everyone is different. As long as you're growing and you're able to eat within 60-90min of that shake, I would say you're OK.

Joe J
07-03-12, 9:21 am
Everyone will have different principles. 150g of dextrose post is a ton of carbs. What is the rest of the day looking like? Personally, i just try to evenly split the carbs up throughout the day. So if you're having 6 meals with 500g carbs total, each meal will have 85g, but that still seems like a ton to me. How much do you weigh and what does the rest of your diet look like?

I'm massively fond of focusing the majority of my carbs around my workout, just the way I like it I guess, is there a problem with this?

This is an example of my carb intake throughout the day on my high carb day:

40
30
30
30
120 (pre-workout)
150 (PWO shake)
120 (PWO meal)

I weigh 191lbs, 11% bodyfat, 18 years old. I eat 280g protein and 80-100g of fat every day, and cycle my carbs: 310, 410, 510g depending on the bodyparts I am training.


If it's working for you, then keep at it. That sounds like a fuckton of carbs postWO. I'm 230lbs at 5'9'' and no matter what diet I'm doing, my carb intake postWO ranges from 40-80 with carbs added in other meals as well. But as CC said, everyone is different. As long as you're growing and you're able to eat within 60-90min of that shake, I would say you're OK.

It is working bro, I'm just wondering if it could possibly work better. I can definitely eat within 60-90minutes, no problems at all, do you think it's still alright bro?

Aggression
07-03-12, 9:27 am
It is working bro, I'm just wondering if it could possibly work better. I can definitely eat within 60-90minutes, no problems at all, do you think it's still alright bro?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You say it's working. So keep at it.

Joe J
07-03-12, 9:30 am
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You say it's working. So keep at it.

Ok brother, thanks for the reassurance.

Kill i oughtta
07-03-12, 1:18 pm
damn i wish my body could handle carbs like that lol

Joe J
07-03-12, 1:26 pm
damn i wish my body could handle carbs like that lol

I've been slowly working up to it for a long time now bro. I've been gaining size for like 24 weeks and have gained 10lbs.

Kill i oughtta
07-03-12, 1:45 pm
I've been slowly working up to it for a long time now bro. I've been gaining size for like 24 weeks and have gained 10lbs.

nice job brotha

rainman
07-03-12, 5:28 pm
I've been gaining size for like 24 weeks and have gained 10lbs.
I love your approach to weight gain. Slow and steady, packing on quality over quantity.

Do you think the fact that you are still 18 and most likely have a crazy metabolism may be the reason you are able to take in so much simple carbs and not gain weight?

Joe J
07-03-12, 5:41 pm
I love your approach to weight gain. Slow and steady, packing on quality over quantity.

Do you think the fact that you are still 18 and most likely have a crazy metabolism may be the reason you are able to take in so much simple carbs and not gain weight?

Thanks brother, the slow and steady approach makes a lot of sense to me and has allowed me to stay as lean as possible.

I would agree that being 18 could be the reason, but for me personally, before I hit the gym I was most definitely the fat/skinny type of body, the worst one going, so although my metabolism may be slighter better than usual due to my age, I'm most definitely not blessed with a great metabolism. I think its more to do with the fact that I keep it relatively low carb away from my workouts, so maybe my body has learnt to utilise these carbs from my training. Who knows, but if you think I should reduce the simple carb intake and add them elsewhere just let me know brother.

rainman
07-03-12, 6:03 pm
My carbs remain complex on all but pre and post workout. I keep carbs, simple or otherwise, at around 40-50g per meal. What works for me may not work for you though and I guess I am pretty textbook as far as nutrition goes, (6/7 meals, 45/45/10%-ish type of thing). I've always looked at my body as a science experiment, so unless it goes tits up for you then carry on and keep logging your results. I may even break away from the norm myself one day!

PORTERHOUSE
07-03-12, 11:02 pm
Personally I think you are over doing it by a long shot, but if it's working for ya at the moment I wouldn't worry about it. If you start to gain unwanted weight quicker than you are comfortable with, try dropping the post carbs while leaving diet the same and see if that helps.

B.C.
07-04-12, 5:59 pm
If you are doing something that works for you, don't let anyone talk you into changing it. You are 18, and if you're training hard and not gaining too much BF, then it's not unreasonable that 150g of post WO carbs is the right amount. A lot of us "normal" guys might just be a little jealous that a dude can eat 500g of carbs on most days and still be 11% BF, so don't listen to a single word that might be spoken out of envy. I always encourage guys like you who get into this thing young to keep at it, no matter what. My biggest regret in life is half-assing my teenage years.

Joe J
07-04-12, 6:17 pm
If you are doing something that works for you, don't let anyone talk you into changing it. You are 18, and if you're training hard and not gaining too much BF, then it's not unreasonable that 150g of post WO carbs is the right amount. A lot of us "normal" guys might just be a little jealous that a dude can eat 500g of carbs on most days and still be 11% BF, so don't listen to a single word that might be spoken out of envy. I always encourage guys like you who get into this thing young to keep at it, no matter what. My biggest regret in life is half-assing my teenage years.

Thanks for the advixe brother, it means a lot.

SDR
07-04-12, 7:11 pm
maybe have some carbs intra too..

PS. Currently trying to shed some bodyfat ; doing about 150-200 gr carbs a day depending on if its a trainin day

QUESTION ;

50 grams of dextrose POST workout ; good / bad / evil ?

its predominantly love handles i got to lose..

Kill i oughtta
07-04-12, 7:20 pm
maybe have some carbs intra too..

PS. Currently trying to shed some bodyfat ; doing about 150-200 gr carbs a day depending on if its a trainin day

QUESTION ;

50 grams of dextrose POST workout ; good / bad / evil ?

its predominantly love handles i got to lose..

no such thing as spot fat removal my friend you have to lose bodyyfat all over.

ChalkyPalms
07-04-12, 7:57 pm
I'm personally a fan of keeping all my carbs split evenly through all meals but I've seen great succes with preworkout insulin spikes (using more simple carbs + a protein), intra workout dextrose and BCAA's (Gatorade) and also simple carbs postworkout with additonal protein. It works well for lean bulking, but even cutting it works well, just maybe drop the intra workout carbs and keep the BCAA's in

PORTERHOUSE
07-05-12, 10:45 am
If you are doing something that works for you, don't let anyone talk you into changing it. You are 18, and if you're training hard and not gaining too much BF, then it's not unreasonable that 150g of post WO carbs is the right amount. A lot of us "normal" guys might just be a little jealous that a dude can eat 500g of carbs on most days and still be 11% BF, so don't listen to a single word that might be spoken out of envy. I always encourage guys like you who get into this thing young to keep at it, no matter what. My biggest regret in life is half-assing my teenage years.

I agree and I hope I didn't come off like I was suggesting he not continue to do it. What I was saying is that while it may be working now, you have to keep your mind sharp and not necessarily believe that it will always work. There are several variables to take into consideration, first off being you need to be aware of how high a bf% you are willing to accept. 11% is sort of lean-ish, but if he starts to bounce up to 14-15%, he may no longer be comfortable with that. The fatter you get, the easier it is for you to keep getting fatter, so all I was saying is if you reach your limit, that's probably the first thing I would change.

There are several factors to take into consideration, like natural vs. non-natural (two different sports), age, body type/metabolism to name a few. I personally think the mindset that one need to accept an unnecessary amount of bf is archaic, and it sounds like Joe J is aware of that as well, so being mindful of the advice he is given and taking it all into consideration as he progresses through the sport is a plus, I'm not sure the "don't listen to anyone" approach is helpful long term, as you will constantly need to adapt and change to stay progressive. If you don't listen to anyone ever, then you're short changing yourself in the long run.

blueIMlifter
07-05-12, 11:50 am
Hi guys,

Over the last couple of days I've been getting a bit confused and I'm after some information. I have always assumed that as PWO is the most important time to take in carbs, my PWO shake has included the highest amount of carbs then any other meal of the day, and to do this I use dextrose.

I've been slowly upping my macros in accordance with my weight gain and I'm currently sitting at 510g carbs on my high days, and 410g carbs on my medium days. On my high carb days I take in 150g dextrose PWO, and on my medium I take in 120g dextrose. Is there any issue with this? Should I measure my dextrose by the amount of sets I perform? Or just keep it how i've got it in terms of macros?

Cheers,
Joe.


This sounds VERY good. Also, absolutely increase/decrease the # of carbs dependent on the volume you are using. If you are starting a new program and the volume/intensity is lower, then taper the PWO carbs down a bit (100-120) and then adjust accordingly as you get further into your program with increasing weights/volume have more carbs.

At the top of my mass I was 270, I am currently sitting at 240 and have lost that weight (without dropping strength) while consuming massive amounts of carbs tapered around workout window nutrition. You are definitely on the right track my friend. Just be sure to watch your carb intake (keep it real low, while raising fats) on days that you don't lift to help with insulin sensitivity.

B.C.
07-05-12, 8:03 pm
I agree and I hope I didn't come off like I was suggesting he not continue to do it. What I was saying is that while it may be working now, you have to keep your mind sharp and not necessarily believe that it will always work. There are several variables to take into consideration, first off being you need to be aware of how high a bf% you are willing to accept. 11% is sort of lean-ish, but if he starts to bounce up to 14-15%, he may no longer be comfortable with that. The fatter you get, the easier it is for you to keep getting fatter, so all I was saying is if you reach your limit, that's probably the first thing I would change.

There are several factors to take into consideration, like natural vs. non-natural (two different sports), age, body type/metabolism to name a few. I personally think the mindset that one need to accept an unnecessary amount of bf is archaic, and it sounds like Joe J is aware of that as well, so being mindful of the advice he is given and taking it all into consideration as he progresses through the sport is a plus, I'm not sure the "don't listen to anyone" approach is helpful long term, as you will constantly need to adapt and change to stay progressive. If you don't listen to anyone ever, then you're short changing yourself in the long run.

If something is obviously working for you, and someone tells you to change it...they do not have your best interest in mind. If something stops working, even if it was working before...it is no longer working, and should be changed. I wouldn't put words in your mouth man, so anything I said was intended as a total generality. You're right about there being a lot of variables..too many in fact, so I try and put things into two categories...shit that works, and shit that doesn't. My general thought is, unless someone's paycheck or ego depends on my success, then their information is met with a small amount of skepticism.

Joe J
07-06-12, 2:43 pm
Yo everyone, thanks for the responses. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with the intake I'm at as it is working for me. Somebody on this forum said 'the only thing eating 150g of dextrose pwo will do is give you diabetes'. Is there any truth in this?

Solid Dreams
07-06-12, 3:02 pm
The effects of carbs is blunted after intense workouts, so probably not, as long as you keep kicking it. Just do what porterhouse said and keep a close eye on everything.

Joe J
07-06-12, 3:12 pm
The effects of carbs is blunted after intense workouts, so probably not, as long as you keep kicking it. Just do what porterhouse said and keep a close eye on everything.

Alright bro, cheeers

PORTERHOUSE
07-06-12, 4:12 pm
Yo everyone, thanks for the responses. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with the intake I'm at as it is working for me. Somebody on this forum said 'the only thing eating 150g of dextrose pwo will do is give you diabetes'. Is there any truth in this?


Huge insulin spikes over several years could, in theory, cause poor insulin sensitivity/insulin resistance. It is generally believed at this time, by the majority of the health community, that you cannot eat yourself into diabetes. Be aware though, that these kinds of view points are always subject to change. As the world gets fatter, we'll learn more and more about diabetes... You have nothing to worry about at the moment and probably for some time to come, but years and years of pancreas abuse could, in theory, cause poor insulin sensitivity/type2, and since I approach everything with caution, I still think it's something to be aware of even though it's not worth loosing sleep over.

If you want to find out how insulin sensitive you actually are, just for knowledge sake (and to see how much 150g dextrose is actually spiking your insulin), you can buy a home glucose test kit from any local drug store for $10 (States). As long as you don't get into the diagnostic game, you can do all the tests they will do on you in the Dr. office at home, so you will at least have a rough idea of how well your body handles sugars.

Fish oils/cinnamon will both help improve your numbers, although at your age, I bet they are immaculate, I'm 26, and mine are.

Joe J
07-06-12, 4:19 pm
Huge insulin spikes over several years could, in theory, cause poor insulin sensitivity/insulin resistance. It is generally believed at this time, by the majority of the health community, that you cannot eat yourself into diabetes. Be aware though, that these kinds of view points are always subject to change. As the world gets fatter, we'll learn more and more about diabetes... You have nothing to worry about at the moment and probably for some time to come, but years and years of pancreas abuse could, in theory, cause poor insulin sensitivity/type2, and since I approach everything with caution, I still think it's something to be aware of even though it's not worth loosing sleep over.

If you want to find out how insulin sensitive you actually are, just for knowledge sake (and to see how much 150g dextrose is actually spiking your insulin), you can buy a home glucose test kit from any local drug store for $10 (States). As long as you don't get into the diagnostic game, you can do all the tests they will do on you in the Dr. office at home, so you will at least have a rough idea of how well your body handles sugars.

Fish oils/cinnamon will both help improve your numbers, although at your age, I bet they are immaculate, I'm 26, and mine are.

Great response mate, thanks a lot. Great info that will be taken into consideration.

BigChrisF
07-06-12, 7:16 pm
Yo everyone, thanks for the responses. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with the intake I'm at as it is working for me. Somebody on this forum said 'the only thing eating 150g of dextrose pwo will do is give you diabetes'. Is there any truth in this?

As long as you remain active and keep your bodyfat low (under 15%) you shouldn't have a problem. If you have a family history of diabetes, you should check in on it every now and then. Get the meter which is almost free and the test strips you will pay out the ass for, and test a few times a day for a few days. Keep it in a log or spreadsheet and track the levels. I would recommend checking after waking, pre workout, and post workout, and a few hours after or near bedtime. I hate stabbing my finger tips, but testing on the arms frequently make you look like a heroine addict.

Joe J
07-07-12, 10:33 am
As long as you remain active and keep your bodyfat low (under 15%) you shouldn't have a problem. If you have a family history of diabetes, you should check in on it every now and then. Get the meter which is almost free and the test strips you will pay out the ass for, and test a few times a day for a few days. Keep it in a log or spreadsheet and track the levels. I would recommend checking after waking, pre workout, and post workout, and a few hours after or near bedtime. I hate stabbing my finger tips, but testing on the arms frequently make you look like a heroine addict.

Cheers bro, my bodyfat will never go above 15%! I have no family history whatsoever.

blueIMlifter
07-07-12, 12:52 pm
Yo everyone, thanks for the responses. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with the intake I'm at as it is working for me. Somebody on this forum said 'the only thing eating 150g of dextrose pwo will do is give you diabetes'. Is there any truth in this?

Be sure to cycle your carb intake especially on non-lifting days as was mentioned above to help with your insulin sensitivity. Also, get a yearly physical to have that stuff checked out (although it should not be an issue.)

Joe J
07-07-12, 12:55 pm
Be sure to cycle your carb intake especially on non-lifting days as was mentioned above to help with your insulin sensitivity. Also, get a yearly physical to have that stuff checked out (although it should not be an issue.)

I carb cycle anyway bro! Low: 310g, medium: 410g, high: 510g.

blueIMlifter
07-07-12, 3:09 pm
I carb cycle anyway bro! Low: 310g, medium: 410g, high: 510g.

Taper carbs down even further on days you are not lifting...as in way less than 310 (raising healthy fats to help maintain weight on off days).

PORTERHOUSE
07-08-12, 11:55 am
Cheers bro, my bodyfat will never go above 15%! I have no family history whatsoever.

It's awesome you have this mindset so early on!

Joe J
07-08-12, 12:53 pm
It's awesome you have this mindset so early on!

Thanks for the kind words Porterhouse. I'm 190lbs at 11% right now, plan to compete for the first time October 2013 so I've gotta do the best I can this far out to come in better than anybody when the day comes!

Kill i oughtta
07-08-12, 2:38 pm
the hell with dextrose pwo id rather eat a bigt as filling meal damet! but thats just me nothing against what anyone else thinks=]

Joe J
07-08-12, 5:18 pm
the hell with dextrose pwo id rather eat a bigt as filling meal damet! but thats just me nothing against what anyone else thinks=]

I eat one hour after my shake with dextrose bro :)

Kill i oughtta
07-08-12, 6:48 pm
I eat one hour after my shake with dextrose bro :)

like i said brotha do your thang whatever works for you im just more of a whole food kind of guy tats all im saying.

MRmichael.hooker
07-08-12, 7:20 pm
I eat one hour after my shake with dextrose bro :)

this is what I did for a long time. Works for me

blueIMlifter
07-08-12, 9:15 pm
the hell with dextrose pwo id rather eat a bigt as filling meal damet! but thats just me nothing against what anyone else thinks=]

Not many would argue that a shake is better than eating some real ass food....but as the research suggests, consuming a massive quantity of high GI carbs post workout for optimal recovery is extremely hard to accomplish without supplementing with shakes.

Kill i oughtta
07-08-12, 9:26 pm
Not many would argue that a shake is better than eating some real ass food....but as the research suggests, consuming a massive quantity of high GI carbs post workout for optimal recovery is extremely hard to accomplish without supplementing with shakes.

ok point taken like i said just my preference thats all.

blueIMlifter
07-09-12, 6:42 pm
ok point taken like i said just my preference thats all.

I hear ya... I would love to eat some real food post workout, but with the amount of carbs I have to consume, cups upon cups of brown rice gets real old, REAL quick! :)

P Diesel
07-13-12, 8:16 pm
love me sum dextrose ... u can hook it up to an IV drip while u sleep ;)

P

Kill i oughtta
07-13-12, 9:05 pm
love me sum dextrose ... u can hook it up to an IV drip while u sleep ;)

P

smooth brah.