View Full Version : No Wait... It Can't Be....
Altered Beast
09-11-12, 5:01 pm
WELL WELL WELL! I read an article in Power magazine from Derek Poundstone discussing how Powerlifting methods benefit Strongmen, and how he claims specific Strongman movements can benefit Powerlifters!
He also pointed out the single most important assistance movement to increase his Log Press is THE BENCH PRESS!
Who would have thunk it?
*Hopefully, this will spark some intelligent debate!
BigChrisF
09-12-12, 3:55 am
I would have hoped that most people realized that making the body strong all over would result in making the body strong all over.
Deathride
09-12-12, 6:07 am
Indeed. I understand the Poundstone has been working specifically on benching something ridiculous just to retain balance.....to need to bench 600+ pounds "just for balance" is ridiculous enough in itself.
Similarly, whenever I overhead press consistently for a period of time, my bench gets better. Its almost like the pressing movements use the same muscles or something.........:-P
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 8:38 am
I would have hoped that most people realized that making the body strong all over would result in making the body strong all over.
You'd think so, but everyone has bought into this "sport specific training" bullshit. I love how Wendler rips that scam of a theory to shreds!
Indeed. I understand the Poundstone has been working specifically on benching something ridiculous just to retain balance.....to need to bench 600+ pounds "just for balance" is ridiculous enough in itself.
Similarly, whenever I overhead press consistently for a period of time, my bench gets better. Its almost like the pressing movements use the same muscles or something.........:-P
Funny isn't it? I haven't heard a peep from any of the Strongmen on this forum....
He also pointed out the single most important assistance movement to increase his Log Press is THE BENCH PRESS!
On the same token, isn't the Over Head Press for shoulders used to strengthen/improve the Bench Press for powerlifting?
Cellardweller
09-12-12, 10:20 am
If you do something like powerlifting which is basicly strength training, you'd think there'd be a certain amount of carry over into a sport called "strongman." I don't know what the "gotcha" part of this is that's supposed to spark debate. It's not like Poundstone wrote an article stating that useing a shake weight will inprove your deadlift. Didn't you yourself recently post a video of a guy saying how doing powerlifting movements in gear will carry over into sports like football? Same difference here.
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 10:56 am
On the same token, isn't the Over Head Press for shoulders used to strengthen/improve the Bench Press for powerlifting?
Of course! Now you're starting to get my point.
If you do something like powerlifting which is basicly strength training, you'd think there'd be a certain amount of carry over into a sport called "strongman." I don't know what the "gotcha" part of this is that's supposed to spark debate. It's not like Poundstone wrote an article stating that useing a shake weight will inprove your deadlift. Didn't you yourself recently post a video of a guy saying how doing powerlifting movements in gear will carry over into sports like football? Same difference here.
I've heard one too many Strongmen on this FORVM say they don't bench because in Strongman they use "overhead movements". Yet Travis Ortmeyer (who lives in Houston and is a World's Strongest Man competitor) bench presses in with many Conjugate Style Variations (presses between 500-600). As did Bill Kazmier, Mariusz Pudianowski, the list goes on forever.
Trying to make a point and open peoples eyes.
The "gotcha" part as you put it was me poking a little thorn in the sides of Strongmen as a joke since there is always competitiveness between various Stregnth Athletes. It's all in good fun, no need to get so touchy.
*Powerlifting is critical for every aspect of lifting. Just accept it and get strong or simply DIE =) when your strength runs out, you DIE (yes its funny but painstakingly true and I will continue to prove this true until I keel over dead).
Universal Rep
09-12-12, 11:05 am
I would have hoped that most people realized that making the body strong all over would result in making the body strong all over.
+1
Aggression
09-12-12, 11:07 am
I've heard one too many Strongmen on this FORVM say they don't bench because in Strongman they use "overhead movements". Yet Travis Ortmeyer (who lives in Houston and is a World's Strongest Man competitor) bench presses in with many Conjugate Style Variations (presses between 500-600). As did Bill Kazmier, Mariusz Pudianowski, the list goes on forever.
Trying to make a point and open peoples eyes.
The "gotcha" part as you put it was me poking a little thorn in the sides of Strongmen as a joke since there is always competitiveness between various Stregnth Athletes. It's all in good fun, no need to get so touchy.
*Powerlifting is critical for every aspect of lifting. Just accept it and get strong or simply DIE =) when your strength runs out, you DIE (yes its funny but painstakingly true and I will continue to prove this true until I keel over dead).
Ronnie Coleman squatted all through his reign as Mr O. Dorian Yates relied on leg presses and hack squats, avoiding free-weight barbell squats (same goes for flat barbell bench press; ronnie - yes, dorian - no). Both reigned supreme as Mr O for 8 years and 6 years, respectively. Just b/c one person says it helped them doesn't make it the 11th Commandment or that everyone should follow suit.
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 11:50 am
Ronnie Coleman squatted all through his reign as Mr O. Dorian Yates relied on leg presses and hack squats, avoiding free-weight barbell squats (same goes for flat barbell bench press; ronnie - yes, dorian - no). Both reigned supreme as Mr O for 8 years and 6 years, respectively. Just b/c one person says it helped them doesn't make it the 11th Commandment or that everyone should follow suit.
I see the point of me posting this is not going to be realized....
Aggression
09-12-12, 11:54 am
I see the point of me posting this is not going to be realized....
One Strongman says he uses bench press to help his log press. Other Strongman don't do bench press because they feel its not really beneficial to their training. How is that different from what I posted?
What exactly is your point then? To open people's eyes? I guess you were under the assumption that everyone out there thinks bench pressing is not beneficial for strongman training until you posted this thread?
Ronnie Coleman squatted all through his reign as Mr O. Dorian Yates relied on leg presses and hack squats, avoiding free-weight barbell squats (same goes for flat barbell bench press; ronnie - yes, dorian - no). Both reigned supreme as Mr O for 8 years and 6 years, respectively. Just b/c one person says it helped them doesn't make it the 11th Commandment or that everyone should follow suit.
My thoughts are similar... Ronnie Squatted, Benched, and Pulled unconventionally heavy, Dorislan didn't... Ronnie did because he tried and it worked for him, Yates didn't because he tried and it didn't... They were both right... Same thing goes with WestSide Vs. Sheiko Vs. 5/3/1 Vs. JoshStrength for PLs... Try shit out, really try it out, for yourself... See what you like, what works, then do that, hard... To many ppl listen to others and it doesn't help them... The Conjugate Method works really well for some, then there are guys who don't use it, who are very strong... Point is everyone is different, and training should be adjusted as such, because at the end of the day, YOU are responsible for your success, so you have to find what works BEST for you...
I always find it funny how some ppl will say Conjugate System is only way to train, but they eliminate some exercises from the system, because they've found then to not help them out as much, or injure them i.e. Heavy GMs... Which to me is the same as doing another plan...
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 11:57 am
My thoughts are similar... Ronnie Squatted, Benched, and Pulled unconventionally heavy, Dorislan didn't... Ronnie did because he tried and it worked for him, Yates didn't because he tried and it didn't... They were both right... Same thing goes with WestSide Vs. Sheiko Vs. 5/3/1 Vs. JoshStrength for PLs... Try shit out, really try it out, for yourself... See what you like, what works, then do that, hard... To many ppl listen to others and it doesn't help them... The Conjugate Method works really well for some, then there are guys who don't use it, who are very strong... Point is everyone is different, and training should be adjusted as such, because at the end of the day, YOU are responsible for your success, so you have to find what works BEST for you...
I always find it funny how some ppl will say Conjugate System is only way to train, but they eliminate some exercises from the system, because they've found then to not help them out as much, or injure them i.e. Heavy GMs... Which to me is the same as doing another plan...
Must I remind y'all that bodybuilding doesn't have a thing to do with Powerlifting or Strongman......
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 11:58 am
One Strongman says he uses bench press to help his log press. Other Strongman don't do bench press because they feel its not really beneficial to their training. How is that different from what I posted?
What exactly is your point then? To open people's eyes? I guess you were under the assumption that everyone out there thinks bench pressing is not beneficial for strongman training until you posted this thread?
You're killing me.
Aggression
09-12-12, 11:59 am
Must I remind y'all that bodybuilding doesn't have a thing to do with Powerlifting or Strongman......
With what you posted, its all in comparison, bro. Some strongmen bench. Some don't. Both aren't RIGHT/WRONG. They do what they feel helps. Same goes for powerlifting (Ben Seath does 5/3/1. Dave Hoff does Westside. Both are prime time). Same goes for bodybuilding (Yates/Coleman). Polk just wrote all that out. I guess you didnt' see HIS point either.
Aggression
09-12-12, 12:01 pm
You're killing me.
What is your point then? Help me realize what the point of your post was. You said 'trying to make a point and open peoples' eyes'. It seems that the only pair of eyes that needed to be opened was yours. So what's your point in making this thread?
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 12:04 pm
What is your point then? Help me realize what the point of your post was. You said 'trying to make a point and open peoples' eyes'. It seems that the only pair of eyes that needed to be opened was yours. So what's your point in making this thread?
Read my post at 9:56 am. Its up there a little bit, *start at the THIRD paragraph.
Higa posted a response to me saying: "Sounds of Higa falling backward on his living room floor" because I mentioned I was trying to convince the Strongmen at my gym to build Stone stands and I would do Stones with em.
Here was my response:
LOL! I know right?
I'm starting to open my mind a bit, NOT TO CROSSFIT, but to some Strongman implements as we do have tons of Strongman equipment available at my gym.
I recently read an article in Power Magazine by Derek Poundstone that really opened my eyes. I'll be carrying a Sandbag followed by Dragging a sled in the coming workouts! We have some Sandbags, I'm just not sure of the weight.
*Poundstone says Powerlifters can benefit from Yoke Walks, Carry & Drags and Farmer's Walks. I was kind of sad when he didn't mention Stones but HEY! I'll mix them in there =)
Aggression
09-12-12, 12:09 pm
Read my post at 9:56 am. Its up there a little bit, *start at the THIRD paragraph.
Higa posted a response to me saying: "Sounds of Higa falling backward on his living room floor" because I mentioned I was trying to convince the Strongmen at my gym to build Stone stands and I would do Stones with em.
Here was my response:
LOL! I know right?
I'm starting to open my mind a bit, NOT TO CROSSFIT, but to some Strongman implements as we do have tons of Strongman equipment available at my gym.
I recently read an article in Power Magazine by Derek Poundstone that really opened my eyes. I'll be carrying a Sandbag followed by Dragging a sled in the coming workouts! We have some Sandbags, I'm just not sure of the weight.
*Poundstone says Powerlifters can benefit from Yoke Walks, Carry & Drags and Farmer's Walks. I was kind of sad when he didn't mention Stones but HEY! I'll mix them in there =)
Bingo. I found the problem. Where does it say that powerlifters can't do yoke walks or farmer's walks? Where does it say that Strongman shouldn't bench press. Where does it say that either one of those can't do crossfit? I see you post on here all the time. You're a 100% all in or nothing kind of guy. According to you, if you're a powerlifter, you can't be a strongman. If you're a strongman, you can't be a powerlifter. If you're a powerlifter/strongman, you can't do crossfit.
In reality, all 3 sports can be interchanged. Crossfitters and powerlifters utilize yoke walks, carry and drags, farmer's walks, even atlas stones. All of a sudden, you read an article from Poundstone about him saying he benches and it 'really opened your eyes'. Our eyes were already open, bro. You're a stubborn dude who thinks if you're a powerlifter, you can't do strongman, crossfit, etc. Not the case at all. You're the only one with the blinders on ... that is until you read poundstone's article.
Must I remind y'all that bodybuilding doesn't have a thing to do with Powerlifting or Strongman......
See I disagree here to... Ive never seen a top level BB that's weak, or a top level PL that's not big and muscular, or a strongman that's not both... A lot of BBs take a lot of pride in there strength... Same with PLs who take pride in their appearance and size, me being one... And you, Pantera, being the previous... A BB who takes pride in their strength... Strength and size run in conjunction for a while until you are forced to go one way or the other (Strength Sport or Aesthetics)... Anyways, just my opinion...
Solid Dreams
09-12-12, 1:52 pm
http://zenpencils.com/comic/35-bruce-lee-absorb-what-is-useful/
Just sayin, dude. You're so hyped up against crossfit, and everything else, and you dont know if it'll have any carryover to your powerlifting. Don't write things off because you think they're sissy, give em a shot and if it doesnt work, you don't lose anything: you gain knowledge, if nothing else.
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 5:08 pm
Bingo. I found the problem. Where does it say that powerlifters can't do yoke walks or farmer's walks? Where does it say that Strongman shouldn't bench press. Where does it say that either one of those can't do crossfit? I see you post on here all the time. You're a 100% all in or nothing kind of guy. According to you, if you're a powerlifter, you can't be a strongman. If you're a strongman, you can't be a powerlifter. If you're a powerlifter/strongman, you can't do crossfit.
In reality, all 3 sports can be interchanged. Crossfitters and powerlifters utilize yoke walks, carry and drags, farmer's walks, even atlas stones. All of a sudden, you read an article from Poundstone about him saying he benches and it 'really opened your eyes'. Our eyes were already open, bro. You're a stubborn dude who thinks if you're a powerlifter, you can't do strongman, crossfit, etc. Not the case at all. You're the only one with the blinders on ... that is until you read poundstone's article.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv3uEGWsJhY
Bingo? Ok....
Sorry, I'd rather take my cues from one of the Strongest Men on planet Earth. I'm so stupid! Geeeeeeeez.
See I disagree here to... Ive never seen a top level BB that's weak, or a top level PL that's not big and muscular, or a strongman that's not both... A lot of BBs take a lot of pride in there strength... Same with PLs who take pride in their appearance and size, me being one... And you, Pantera, being the previous... A BB who takes pride in their strength... Strength and size run in conjunction for a while until you are forced to go one way or the other (Strength Sport or Aesthetics)... Anyways, just my opinion...
Very true and THANK YOU for illustrating my point!!!
http://zenpencils.com/comic/35-bruce-lee-absorb-what-is-useful/
Just sayin, dude. You're so hyped up against crossfit, and everything else, and you dont know if it'll have any carryover to your powerlifting. Don't write things off because you think they're sissy, give em a shot and if it doesnt work, you don't lose anything: you gain knowledge, if nothing else.
I'm wasting my time...
HIGA MONSTER
09-12-12, 5:11 pm
Must I remind y'all that bodybuilding doesn't have a thing to do with Powerlifting or Strongman......
I will have to disagree on this Pantera.
I believe when I do accessory work, its similar to a Bodybuilder.
You have seen my Journey where sometimes I do 3 sets of 15 reps of 2 sets of 25 reps. With no rest.
I know that I don't go for a "pump" but I truly believe that blending a combination of Bodybuilding, Powerlifting and some CrossFit techniques have made me a better Strongman.
Aloha,
HIGA MONSTER
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 5:13 pm
I will have to disagree on this Pantera.
I believe when I do accessory work, its similar to a Bodybuilder.
You have seen my Journey where sometimes I do 3 sets of 15 reps of 2 sets of 25 reps. With no rest.
I know that I don't go for a "pump" but I truly believe that blending a combination of Bodybuilding, Powerlifting and some CrossFit techniques have made me a better Strongman.
Aloha,
HIGA MONSTER
Glad to hear it.
So you disagree with Poundstone's advice?
Aggression
09-12-12, 5:17 pm
facepalm.jpeg
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 5:19 pm
facepalm.jpeg
Lighten up Agg, seriously.
Did you read what I told you to?
HIGA MONSTER
09-12-12, 5:19 pm
Glad to hear it.
So you disagree with Poundstone's advice?
I don't disagree, but I choose not to Bench as much as he does. Or as others. Thats just me.
I find that I do better lifting stuff overhead, and supplement with exercises such as Incline Bench or Close grip bench press.
I have seen a few strongmen try to bench 500 lbs and tear their pecs. Is it because they lack doing the exercise? Maybe, but it may also be cause they don't do Foam Rolling or Myofascial release.
And then all of a sudden, they want to "keep up with the boys" and jump in to max press 500 lbs on a flat bench.
Poundstone is a strong MoFo. If it works for him, great!
Brian Shaw doesn't bench press. He told me when I saw him that he feels Overhead pressing with bands have improved his Overhead by leaps and bounds.
But I know that Shaw does alot of accessory work for his triceps like a Bodybuilder. So that ties in with his Strongman, right?
Just my point of views bro. I am sure we will banter back & forth more. :)
Aloha,
HIGA MONSTER
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 5:21 pm
I don't disagree, but I choose not to Bench as much as he does. Or as others. Thats just me.
I find that I do better lifting stuff overhead, and supplement with exercises such as Incline Bench or Close grip bench press.
I have seen a few strongmen try to bench 500 lbs and tear their pecs. Is it because they lack doing the exercise? Maybe, but it may also be cause they don't do Foam Rolling or Myofascial release.
And then all of a sudden, they want to "keep up with the boys" and jump in to max press 500 lbs on a flat bench.
Poundstone is a strong MoFo. If it works for him, great!
Brian Shaw doesn't bench press. He told me when I saw him that he feels Overhead pressing with bands have improved his Overhead by leaps and bounds.
But I know that Shaw does alot of accessory work for his triceps like a Bodybuilder. So that ties in with his Strongman, right?
Just my point of views bro. I am sure we will banter back & forth more. :)
Aloha,
HIGA MONSTER
Not really believe it or not! Makes total sense.
Log Press against BANDS? No! =)
Whatever works. I just thought it was beyond interesting hearing from one of the Strongest guys on the planet say that the number one movement to increase his log press is the Bench Press. I did throw in a jab with it, but I figured y'all knew my tone by now =) guess not....
Altered Beast
09-12-12, 5:31 pm
Of course! Now you're starting to get my point.
The "gotcha" part as you put it was me poking a little thorn in the sides of Strongmen as a joke since there is always competitiveness between various Stregnth Athletes. It's all in good fun, no need to get so touchy.
*Powerlifting is critical for every aspect of lifting. Just accept it and get strong or simply DIE =) when your strength runs out, you DIE (yes its funny but painstakingly true and I will continue to prove this true until I keel over dead).
This is what I was referring to Agg, did it for ya =)
Note the lack of a serious tone and me pushing that boundary FURTHER with the following paragraph....
**FACEPALM.JPEG