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View Full Version : Do Stronger Muscles Really Mean Bigger Muscles?



Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
12-17-12, 3:43 pm
Just to keep my head right as I'm working back into training hard and heavy, I've adopted Jim Wendler's 5-3-1 protocol with the BBB(Bulky But Big) method for assistance work. For those that don't know, my roots are deeply set in powerlifting. My early years were spent training under my good friend Sammy who holds quite a few records in the NASA powerlifting association. Which brings about my question for discussion... Do stronger muscles really mean bigger muscles? (lets negate the obvious.. muscle memory/form/CNS adaption) <- think long term. Are stronger muscles bigger muscles? Discuss.

Thought I'd post this up here as Animal fields more strength athletes. As a bodybuilder dabbling into their realm, I'd love their input on this.

Aggression
12-17-12, 3:52 pm
Hard to say. I've seen really weak looking guys who are stronger than me. And then I see guys who look 10x more jacked than me, yet I'm stronger. Interested to see how this thread goes ..

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
12-17-12, 5:01 pm
Hard to say. I've seen really weak looking guys who are stronger than me. And then I see guys who look 10x more jacked than me, yet I'm stronger. Interested to see how this thread goes ..

Exactly my point. Theres a kid in local rec thats 155lbs and throws up some serious numbers. Long, lean muscles. But I'd also like to discuss this past the genetic anomalies. haha

deanna7272
12-17-12, 9:36 pm
I was hoping that you'd pull more opinions on this...

TruMotivation
12-17-12, 9:48 pm
I dont think I am a big guy but I definitely lift more than some guys that are bigger than me. If my strength matched my looks im sure I would look pretty crazy.

BigChrisF
12-17-12, 10:31 pm
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for here. If you examine muscles on the small scale, they are composed of contractile proteins. A thicker, more massive collection of them would better resist tensive stress put on them. I don't think that is what you're looking for though.

Do you want to know if a person's muscles necessarily will get bigger if they increase strength? If you preclude all other mitigating factors outside the particular muscle fiber, I'm going to say yes. You have to increase size and number to increase strength. However that would be an extremely limited view of how strength building works. Just my opinion though. I'm confident you can find supporting and dissenting views.

J Wong
12-18-12, 12:07 am
I don't think so. I feel that I fall under the "stronger than you look" category unfortunately!

Cellardweller
12-18-12, 6:15 am
Do bigger muscles mean stronger muscles? Not necessarily.

Do stronger muscles mean bigger muscles? Ever meet a little guy who could bench 500 raw?

There's also a difference between looking muscular and being big. Are you worried about not looking muscular doing 5/3/1? From my experience you can put on plenty of size doing 5/3/1, but there's no sculpting exercises like the cable cross overs mentioned in the other thread. So if you cut down to less than 10% BF you probably would find some areas that need attention. Depends on what your goals are.

C.Coronato
12-18-12, 10:54 am
I dont think there really is a yes or no answer. There could be guys like BOOM who isnt the biggest dude in the world yet strong as hell. Then guys like Ronnie Coleman, big as hell, and strong as hell.

mfl5027
12-18-12, 12:38 pm
Yes, for any given person. If someone gets bigger muscles, they get stronger and vice versa. It's a little bit more complicated than that when you account for things like neural adaptations, the type of hypertrophy, potential vs performance, etc., but hopefully you get the idea.

This doesn't work when you compare people against each other instead of themselves. If you want a random example, look at the results of any powerlifting meet. You'll see some light lifters total more than some heavier lifters.

P Diesel
12-19-12, 11:15 am
richard hawthorne ... end of convo

P

Kowboy
12-19-12, 1:06 pm
I know that being tall I have gotten a lot stronger over the last 2 years but I still don't look like I have put on any muscle. I am going to follow along on this one. I would love to get thicker and put some size on me.

Beowulf
12-19-12, 2:23 pm
Just to keep my head right as I'm working back into training hard and heavy, I've adopted Jim Wendler's 5-3-1 protocol with the BBB(Bulky But Big) method for assistance work. For those that don't know, my roots are deeply set in powerlifting. My early years were spent training under my good friend Sammy who holds quite a few records in the NASA powerlifting association. Which brings about my question for discussion... Do stronger muscles really mean bigger muscles? (lets negate the obvious.. muscle memory/form/CNS adaption) <- think long term. Are stronger muscles bigger muscles? Discuss.

Thought I'd post this up here as Animal fields more strength athletes. As a bodybuilder dabbling into their realm, I'd love their input on this.

Bigger in absolute terms like, say, volume? Or bigger in relative terms like shape and the ratio of muscle to fat on the body? Of course, bodybuilding is often about illusion--creating and sculpting a physique that presents a certain look. So if you are cut and chiseled, though you may be smaller and weigh less, you actually "appear" bigger. In powerlifting, this illusion is not really relevant, nor is the goal of shaping and sculpting each muscle.

Firefist
12-19-12, 2:56 pm
richard hawthorne ... end of convo

P

Yup, I was just about to say.

BOSS
12-20-12, 12:23 am
Big benches tend to correlate to big upper body size, deadlifting strength is much more dependent on technique, and squatting is a blend...if you are quad dominant than big quads will go with strength, if you use more hip and back strength it wont correlate with size as much. In my experience size comes from a high volume of training whereas peak strength is best built with heavy lifting.

Not sure if this is what you're even asking tho, are you trying to build strength or size or both?

Tauscheck
12-30-12, 2:54 pm
Thats a hard one, Ill try to explain my opinion.
If your talking about yourself I would say yes bigger muscles means stronger muscles
If your comparing yourself to someone else then thats where it gets to complicated, there to many factors and diffrences in everyone to compare. I dont think you can compare Muscle mass/strength to body type/size unless your comparing yourself to yourself.
Many factors could be genetics, diet, %bodyfat, My dad always told me longer muscles are stronger muscles so could it be height and length
I also think the body mass to strength ratio is diffrent in everyone. thats why you see some small guys lift alot of weight.

Were very alike but yet very diffrent.

DEADn
12-30-12, 5:55 pm
I am no expert in this but I would like to offer an opinion. If you compare and bodybuilder to a powerlifter powerlifters are much stronger. Both are 'fat' but in the competition season the bodybuilding is bigger he is doing more reps with the weight then a powerlifter is doing. Thus the bodybuilder blows up the muscle to cause his physique to look huge. This doesn't mean he is strong. Means he has inflated muscle. This is my opinion because it is what I have seen in my own body. High reps cause the 'bloat' in the muscle. Lower rep with higher weight cause a stronger muscle and probably causes the muscle fibers to band together closer, tighter to become stronger. The bodybuilding muscle probably does this to a point but I bet it also expands to cause the mass effect.

I did the bodybuilding thing for a while but I decided that if I want to get big I need to base it around strength and layer it with some higher reps but not to over indulge in higher reps. This way my size will equal my strength. Does that make sense? It is like a 150 lbs guy being able to lift more than a 250lb guy because one practices reps while the other practices heavy weights.

MELTDOWN
01-01-13, 7:11 pm
I am no expert in this but I would like to offer an opinion. If you compare and bodybuilder to a powerlifter powerlifters are much stronger. Both are 'fat' but in the competition season the bodybuilding is bigger he is doing more reps with the weight then a powerlifter is doing. Thus the bodybuilder blows up the muscle to cause his physique to look huge. This doesn't mean he is strong. Means he has inflated muscle. This is my opinion because it is what I have seen in my own body. High reps cause the 'bloat' in the muscle. Lower rep with higher weight cause a stronger muscle and probably causes the muscle fibers to band together closer, tighter to become stronger. The bodybuilding muscle probably does this to a point but I bet it also expands to cause the mass effect.

I did the bodybuilding thing for a while but I decided that if I want to get big I need to base it around strength and layer it with some higher reps but not to over indulge in higher reps. This way my size will equal my strength. Does that make sense? It is like a 150 lbs guy being able to lift more than a 250lb guy because one practices reps while the other practices heavy weights.

Good points in there, and after watching the 2012 Crossfit episodes on DVR, def gotta agree.

JHOORNSTRA
01-04-13, 9:44 pm
There is some validity to the statement of "size begets strength, strength begets size", however I don't think it's one hundred percent accurate for everyone as we are all different. I will say with that statement, if you are strong, typically you will look big, and visa versa. However, I know many people bigger than me, bigger chest, arms, shoulders, and I have them on strength.

My opinion...

The majority of the biggest size gains comes from the heavy sets of 8-12 reps. Strength comes from much heavier weights with the rep range typically lower, around 1-3...give or take. I feel that the rate of strength gain is faster than the rate of muscle growth in relation to size in either case. Therefore, you will get bigger by trying to get strong, but it will take longer than if you trained to get solely get big...both are respectable.

J-HO

Nfleagle78
01-22-13, 12:47 pm
Just to keep my head right as I'm working back into training hard and heavy, I've adopted Jim Wendler's 5-3-1 protocol with the BBB(Bulky But Big) method for assistance work. For those that don't know, my roots are deeply set in powerlifting. My early years were spent training under my good friend Sammy who holds quite a few records in the NASA powerlifting association. Which brings about my question for discussion... Do stronger muscles really mean bigger muscles? (lets negate the obvious.. muscle memory/form/CNS adaption) <- think long term. Are stronger muscles bigger muscles? Discuss.

Thought I'd post this up here as Animal fields more strength athletes. As a bodybuilder dabbling into their realm, I'd love their input on this.

I disagree, my right arm is about 3/4 an inch bigger than my left and I can curl way more with my left arm. I think it's because I trained my left arm harder to try to get it to grow to catch up with my right arm!

Rambo Moe
01-22-13, 12:56 pm
Unfortuanetly I find myself to be weak for my size, I think it depends completely on how you train. I've always been working out to get big, every now and then going heavy but most of the time going to failure with low to moderate weight and a high volume of sets.

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
01-22-13, 1:01 pm
Just for the sake of conversation. (A lot of people asked why I asked) I feel like it's a question that crossed everyone's mind at some point.