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View Full Version : Raw vs Equipped Powerlifting - Well Written Article



Altered Beast
12-21-12, 10:29 am
This is the best and most objective article I've seen regarding this topic and I completely agree with the conclusion.

http://www.mariliacoutinho.com/raw-versus-equipped-the-bloody-war-of-the-millennium/

Aggression
12-21-12, 10:44 am
Awesome. I love it. Thanks for the link.

Altered Beast
12-21-12, 11:16 am
Awesome. I love it. Thanks for the link.

I thought it was interesting. Powerlifting is such a fringe sport, we really all should stick very close together no matter how we choose to lift.

Bruiser
12-21-12, 11:22 am
I thought it was interesting. Powerlifting is such a fringe sport, we really all should stick very close together no matter how we choose to lift.

Great read and even better point Beast. Before we can get the geared and raw lifters together, we gotta work on the different feds and tested/untested. There's so many niches for such a small sport.

Tauscheck
12-21-12, 10:52 pm
Good post. I think in almost all sports theres going to be people that bring in some type of politics or debate, and theres always going to be the people that take things to extreme rather than joining together to make the sport stronger

Shukin
12-22-12, 9:04 am
Nice one, some good shit in there, I like how he looks at it from different angles.

DEADn
12-22-12, 10:46 pm
Good article but it seems basic to me.
I have gotten away from bodybuilding myself and have moved over to strength training powerlifting. I did it because I found that in bodybuilding I was only blowing up my muscle while the strength was a bit of a joke. So, I decided to turn it around and make my platform pure strength and add the mass on top of that this way even if I miss some training my strength is still there while the mass may fade a bit.

BOSS
12-23-12, 12:10 am
Strong is Strong... watch someone lift regardless of discipline and you can tell who's strong... altho it doesn't really answer the question: who's stronger? Who's strongest?

Altered Beast
12-23-12, 7:38 pm
Strong is Strong... watch someone lift regardless of discipline and you can tell who's strong... altho it doesn't really answer the question: who's stronger? Who's strongest?

Dan Green? Seriously?

BOSS
12-23-12, 9:54 pm
Dan Green? Seriously?

Yup Animal as of Dec 1

Shukin
12-23-12, 11:19 pm
Dan Green? Seriously?


Yup Animal as of Dec 1

Forgive the Altered beast, he's often in his own world.......lol @ AB, what did she say?

KettleBellFreak
12-26-12, 8:39 pm
Forgive the Altered beast, he's often in his own world.......lol @ AB, what did she say?

I'm by no means a powerlifter, stick to body building mostly, but I greatly admire powerlifters' training geared or not. If some guy can throw 500 on a bench, geared or not, props to him. Its about lifting. And wouldn't excess weight during training give you more strength when you go raw, or am I mistaken?

C.Coronato
12-27-12, 9:29 am
Good Article, thanks man.

BOSS
12-27-12, 1:29 pm
I'm by no means a powerlifter, stick to body building mostly, but I greatly admire powerlifters' training geared or not. If some guy can throw 500 on a bench, geared or not, props to him. Its about lifting. And wouldn't excess weight during training give you more strength when you go raw, or am I mistaken?

You would think that's true, and the ones who also train raw tend to benefit like you said... But a lot of guys never get out of gear and have no stopping power or reversal strength on the squat and bench when they do.

KettleBellFreak
12-27-12, 9:41 pm
You would think that's true, and the ones who also train raw tend to benefit like you said... But a lot of guys never get out of gear and have no stopping power or reversal strength on the squat and bench when they do.

so how much of a difference will it actually make? Like 30 pounds or so from raw to geared? Or are the guys that go geared all the time just suck ass at raw and drop numbers by 3 digits?

BigChrisF
12-27-12, 11:18 pm
so how much of a difference will it actually make? Like 30 pounds or so from raw to geared? Or are the guys that go geared all the time just suck ass at raw and drop numbers by 3 digits?

That is highly variable. It depends on the skill of the lifter, the equipment being used and their individual leverages and specific weaknesses.

Altered Beast
12-28-12, 3:50 pm
Forgive the Altered beast, he's often in his own world.......lol @ AB, what did she say?

It went very very well! Thanks for asking!

Cellardweller
12-28-12, 4:48 pm
You would think that's true, and the ones who also train raw tend to benefit like you said... But a lot of guys never get out of gear and have no stopping power or reversal strength on the squat and bench when they do.

Never considered that before.

BOSS
12-29-12, 3:58 am
so how much of a difference will it actually make? Like 30 pounds or so from raw to geared? Or are the guys that go geared all the time just suck ass at raw and drop numbers by 3 digits?

Well you could take a guy like Ryan Kennelly who has about a 670 raw bench and the suited bench record at about 1070... 400 lb difference. awesome raw bench by any standard but definitely not 30 pounds :) There are other guys who are much less strong getting over 300 lb carryovers out of squat or bench suits

It is what it is

BOSS
12-29-12, 4:00 am
Never considered that before.

I've been told by a few guys that they immediately injured themselves trying to squat raw after years of gear haha

J Wong
12-29-12, 11:05 am
I've been told by a few guys that they immediately injured themselves trying to squat raw after years of gear haha

I fooled around squatting in briefs for about a month and my raw squat suffered. My reversal strength felt horrible.

KettleBellFreak
12-29-12, 11:44 pm
I've been told by a few guys that they immediately injured themselves trying to squat raw after years of gear haha

Any theory as to why? Is it just the mechanics of squatting raw have gotten so weak that they cant or whats your input?

Sorry to be so questioning, this has got me extra curious

Cellardweller
12-30-12, 1:53 pm
I've never worn gear before, but I assume your body begins to rely on the briefs to control the decent into the hole like a crutch. Once you take the briefs off after awhile, you no longer have them supporting you and your support muscles are weak causing injury.

BigChrisF
12-30-12, 10:32 pm
Any theory as to why? Is it just the mechanics of squatting raw have gotten so weak that they cant or whats your input?

Sorry to be so questioning, this has got me extra curious

Lifting with gear is different, so they most likely had difficulty adjusting to the form change. Purely speculation though. Could have also been a coincidence. I try not to stray too far from unequipped lifting when I start back into gear. Likely holds back my geared training, but I don't have a transitioning problem either.

Polk17
12-30-12, 10:57 pm
I fooled around squatting in briefs for about a month and my raw squat suffered. My reversal strength felt horrible.

I had the same problem with just Knee Wraps. I think it was Dan Green somewhere else that said as a Raw guy to make sure your training is in line with making you as strong as possible in the weakest point of the movement, i.e. in the hole, off your chest, and off the floor.

I know my reversal strength isn't as good, and my Squats look awful, slow.

Shukin
12-31-12, 9:07 am
I read the above comment and didn't exactly know what "reversal strength" meant so I googled it. I found this great article by Louie Simmons; http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls8.htm

I'm not hijacking, just adding to the mix.

Shukin

BOSS
12-31-12, 11:02 am
I had the same problem with just Knee Wraps. I think it was Dan Green somewhere else that said as a Raw guy to make sure your training is in line with making you as strong as possible in the weakest point of the movement, i.e. in the hole, off your chest, and off the floor.

I know my reversal strength isn't as good, and my Squats look awful, slow.

Yeah I think of reversal strength or stopping power as the ability to switch from descending in the squat to recovering upwards. It's a matter of certain muscles stretching and then contracting to reverse the weight at the low point of a squat. The muscles are th adductors, glutes and hamstrings. The exact muscles that are supported most in a geared squat. Briefs support these three. A suit hits these three and more.

Adductor and hamstrings are where my people have reported injuries

Altered Beast
12-31-12, 11:11 am
I read the above comment and didn't exactly know what "reversal strength" meant so I googled it. I found this great article by Louie Simmons; http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls8.htm

I'm not hijacking, just adding to the mix.

Shukin

Hijacker =)


Yeah I think of reversal strength or stopping power as the ability to switch from descending in the squat to recovering upwards. It's a matter of certain muscles stretching and then contracting to reverse the weight at the low point of a squat. The muscles are th adductors, glutes and hamstrings. The exact muscles that are supported most in a geared squat. Briefs support these three. A suit hits these three and more.

Adductor and hamstrings are where my people have reported injuries

I've noticed a lot of lifters these days do not do a whole lot of direct hamstring or adductor work. They do plenty of barbell movements, but never isolate the muscle and train it that way.

What do you get? Torn hammy.

Polk17
12-31-12, 12:39 pm
Yeah I think of reversal strength or stopping power as the ability to switch from descending in the squat to recovering upwards. It's a matter of certain muscles stretching and then contracting to reverse the weight at the low point of a squat. The muscles are th adductors, glutes and hamstrings. The exact muscles that are supported most in a geared squat. Briefs support these three. A suit hits these three and more.

Adductor and hamstrings are where my people have reported injuries

So, if I'm having Glute (Piriformis) problems after getting out of Wraps for 6 months and Squatting just as heavy that could very well be why?

BOSS
12-31-12, 1:52 pm
So, if I'm having Glute (Piriformis) problems after getting out of Wraps for 6 months and Squatting just as heavy that could very well be why?

Could be certainly, but piriformis issues are common for raw lifters too. There is a considerable need for external rotation during a squat and this muscle can get tight. Do you walk around with your feet rotating too? That'd be a sign your external rotators-specifically the piriformis is overly tight.

BOSS
12-31-12, 2:13 pm
Hijacker =)



I've noticed a lot of lifters these days do not do a whole lot of direct hamstring or adductor work. They do plenty of barbell movements, but never isolate the muscle and train it that way.

What do you get? Torn hammy.

Yeah my feeling is as an intermediate lifter it's very helpful and important to do direct work to support the main barbell lifts. You have to target your weak points. Later, however, as your technique gets more dialed in the loading is distributed efficiently across the involved muscles and supporting lifts become less important.
But like you said, if you don't at least strengthen those muscles while your technique is developing you are risking injuries and leaving your strength untapped.

Polk17
12-31-12, 2:44 pm
Could be certainly, but piriformis issues are common for raw lifters too. There is a considerable need for external rotation during a squat and this muscle can get tight. Do you walk around with your feet rotating too? That'd be a sign your external rotators-specifically the piriformis is overly tight.

Since we have totally hijacked this thread. When you say Externally Rotated do you mean walking duckfooted (toes pointed out), if so, what's weird is I used to. Now on my left side, where I am having the issue, my foot has gotten more straight.

I had a Piriformis issue pretty bad for a lot of years. And about 18 months ago it went away completely. I think I have pointed out why, I used to work out at a commercial gym and did Hip Ab/Ad 2x/week, now I workout in my garage gym and don't have access, and it has crept back. I did some the other day, and the Abduction killed it. So I am going to mix more in.

Any tips or ideas to help the problem?

Altered Beast
12-31-12, 4:55 pm
Yeah my feeling is as an intermediate lifter it's very helpful and important to do direct work to support the main barbell lifts. You have to target your weak points. Later, however, as your technique gets more dialed in the loading is distributed efficiently across the involved muscles and supporting lifts become less important.
But like you said, if you don't at least strengthen those muscles while your technique is developing you are risking injuries and leaving your strength untapped.

Dan, I consider myself an immediate/beginner lifter. You my man, are definitely advanced! Expert level is next for you.