View Full Version : Article by Mark Rippetoe Regarding Crossfit
Altered Beast
08-27-13, 2:24 pm
Does he make sense or is he an old man rambling on? I tend to lean towards the prior....
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/fallacy_of_high_rep_olympic_lifting
What do you think?
I am no expert so I will not attempt to say whether he is correct or incorrect. What I will say is if you use Dave Tate's example of labeling a coach good or bad, Rippetoe falls under the category of the latter. When defining a great coach Dave Tate always asks the question who have you trained? So what world record holders as he trained?
Altered Beast
08-27-13, 4:09 pm
I am no expert so I will not attempt to say whether he is correct or incorrect. What I will say is if you use Dave Tate's example of labeling a coach good or bad, Rippetoe falls under the category of the latter. When defining a great coach Dave Tate always asks the question who have you trained? So what world record holders as he trained?
Mark Rippetoe is one of the most famous and legendary strength coaches in the history of Powerlifting. Do your research my friend and find out.
Mark Rippetoe is one of the most famous and legendary strength coaches in the history of Powerlifting. Do your research my friend and find out.
He is famous and written books, but what world record holder has he coached?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
Altered Beast
08-27-13, 4:33 pm
He is famous and written books, but what world record holder has he coached?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
You really just quoted wikipedia as a legit source of information? SHUK! I know you can do better =)
You really just quoted wikipedia as a legit source of information? SHUK! I know you can do better =)
I am asking you a question, I know he has written many books, I have many myself, but he is no Ed Coen. What has he himself done besides write books? Who has he coached? If I were to tell you who said this to me about Rippetoe you might see the light.
I'll give you a hint, his initials are SP
shortstack
08-27-13, 4:52 pm
I've watched his videos and he is a very matter of fact guy/coach from what I've seen. I obviously don't personally know him but I kind of get what he's saying.
What I took from it is what's the point of doing all that for your training if it doesn't advance you to better performance on the platform. Now for Crossfit maybe it makes sense because the point is to do 100 of them in 2.5 seconds or whatever but in the PL world, maybe it has no place.
Cross fit seems to be about getting the reps no matter the form or mechanics into making it happen and I can only assume that Mark is completely against that from a PL point of view.
I'm not an expert on my own training let alone anyone else but that's my contribution to the intense debate!!
I've watched his videos and he is a very matter of fact guy/coach from what I've seen. I obviously don't personally know him but I kind of get what he's saying.
What I took from it is what's the point of doing all that for your training if it doesn't advance you to better performance on the platform. Now for Crossfit maybe it makes sense because the point is to do 100 of them in 2.5 seconds or whatever but in the PL world, maybe it has no place.
Cross fit seems to be about getting the reps no matter the form or mechanics into making it happen and I can only assume that Mark is completely against that from a PL point of view.
I'm not an expert on my own training let alone anyone else but that's my contribution to the intense debate!!
He was also heavily involved with CrossFit at one point.
http://www.outcrossfitness.com/1/post/2013/08/rebuttal-to-rip-the-fallacy-of-high-rep-olympic-lifting.html
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 8:55 am
I've watched his videos and he is a very matter of fact guy/coach from what I've seen. I obviously don't personally know him but I kind of get what he's saying.
What I took from it is what's the point of doing all that for your training if it doesn't advance you to better performance on the platform. Now for Crossfit maybe it makes sense because the point is to do 100 of them in 2.5 seconds or whatever but in the PL world, maybe it has no place.
Cross fit seems to be about getting the reps no matter the form or mechanics into making it happen and I can only assume that Mark is completely against that from a PL point of view.
I'm not an expert on my own training let alone anyone else but that's my contribution to the intense debate!!
Coach Rip is also an expert coach in the Olympic lifts. He's never referring to Powerlifting in this article.
His whole point is, leave the Olympic lifts to the Olympic lifters. There are MUCH better and SAFER ways to condition yourself than doing 100 reps of snatches with atrocious form, regardless if its light weight.
Coach Rip is also an expert coach in the Olympic lifts.
Has he coached anyone in the Olympics?
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2013/08/28/the-not-so-evils-of-high-rep-weightlifting/
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 9:44 am
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2013/08/28/the-not-so-evils-of-high-rep-weightlifting/
Inconsequential. You're using a subjective article written by a Crossfitter....
http://www.outcrossfitness.com/1/post/2013/08/rebuttal-to-rip-the-fallacy-of-high-rep-olympic-lifting.html
Has he coached anyone in the Olympics?
Inconsequential. You're using a subjective article written by a Crossfitter....
I think you missed a few posts and another article.
Did you even bother to read the on on JTS? Chad would not publish it if he didn't feel it relevant. Besides, the point is, there are many sides to an argument or debate, and you can't give me one person who Rippatoe has coached who has done anything, so what makes him the author of the 'commandments'?
BVictor
08-28-13, 10:42 am
He is famous and written books, but what world record holder has he coached?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
sometimes having great success isn't measured by one or two athletes a coach works with, but by helping thousands upon thousands of people do things the proper way and make progress. Starting Strength and Texas Method are incredibly good programs that many, many lifters have great success with.
sometimes having great success isn't measured by one or two athletes a coach works with, but by helping thousands upon thousands of people do things the proper way and make progress. Starting Strength and Texas Method are incredibly good programs that many, many lifters have great success with.
But does it make his opinion the only one that matters?*
It makes him a great author, winning titles makes you a great coach, look at John Wooden, how many pros did he coach?
For the record I am not trying to discredit Mark Rippetoe at all, I am merely making a point that his opinion is not the only opinion. The article that altered beast has posted has caused several ripples in the weightlifting community, there are many responses to what he has written. I am merely pointing out that there is more than one side to any situation, and when you close yourself off limits your education therefore limiting your growth.
Cellardweller
08-28-13, 12:30 pm
But does it make his opinion the only one that matters?*
Only if you make it the only opinion that matters.
For the record I am not trying to discredit Mark Rippetoe at all, I am merely making a point that his opinion is not the only opinion. The article that altered beast has posted has caused several ripples in the weightlifting community, there are many responses to what he has written. I am merely pointing out that there is more than one side to any situation, and when you close yourself off limits your education therefore limiting your growth.
If Mark Rippetoe is such a poor coach, if he has no champions or champion teams, then why are so many people taking the time to writer rebuttal articles? If he has no idea what he's talking about how did he get his article published on Tnation in the first place? Where does his reputation come from that people feel threatened by what he says? Maybe it's becasue he is a good coach. Maybe the measuring stick needs to be changed from number of champions to something else. As with most articles or videos of this type where there is a precieved attack on what people are doing ie. Crossfit, there is usually a grain of truth to what is being said. If you love Crossfit and read his article wouldn't you maybe take a step back and reexamin your form some? Like any article accusing powerlifters of eating shit and being fat wouldn't you as a powerlifter maybe reflect on what you did eat the last 24 hours and pause for an extra second or two in the mirror?
When a powerlifter wants to know where their weakspots are in a lift and submits a video to the FORVM for critique what do you submit? A one rep max? No, you film a heavy set of 3-5 reps because when you get tired your form breaks down telling of what your weak spot is because that muscle group fails first. Now if your goal is to do 50 reps and your form breaks down at say 25-30 reps then your chances of injury go up exponetially verses one or two reps. That's one of the things Rippetoe is saying. Article like this are designed to get people to think and not so much be an attack on something. Yes he uses derogatory language and colorful metaphors, but that's all flashy lights and loud noises. Cut through that, don't take it personally because you like Crossfit or powerlifting or strongman or bodybuilding or Bikram Yoga, and get to the meat of what's being said.
Only if you make it the only opinion that matters.
If Mark Rippetoe is such a poor coach, if he has no champions or champion teams, then why are so many people taking the time to writer rebuttal articles? If he has no idea what he's talking about how did he get his article published on Tnation in the first place? Where does his reputation come from that people feel threatened by what he says? Maybe it's becasue he is a good coach. Maybe the measuring stick needs to be changed from number of champions to something else. As with most articles or videos of this type where there is a precieved attack on what people are doing ie. Crossfit, there is usually a grain of truth to what is being said. If you love Crossfit and read his article wouldn't you maybe take a step back and reexamin your form some? Like any article accusing powerlifters of eating shit and being fat wouldn't you as a powerlifter maybe reflect on what you did eat the last 24 hours and pause for an extra second or two in the mirror?
When a powerlifter wants to know where their weakspots are in a lift and submits a video to the FORVM for critique what do you submit? A one rep max? No, you film a heavy set of 3-5 reps because when you get tired your form breaks down telling of what your weak spot is because that muscle group fails first. Now if your goal is to do 50 reps and your form breaks down at say 25-30 reps then your chances of injury go up exponetially verses one or two reps. That's one of the things Rippetoe is saying. Article like this are designed to get people to think and not so much be an attack on something. Yes he uses derogatory language and colorful metaphors, but that's all flashy lights and loud noises. Cut through that, don't take it personally because you like Crossfit or powerlifting or strongman or bodybuilding or Bikram Yoga, and get to the meat of what's being said.
Very good point.
My only point about being a coach is that altered Beast said he was a great coach, and I know he is a fan of Dave Tate so I put Dave Tate's frame around what the coach is. And like I said before I don't dislike him or discredit anything he says, I am merely trying to get our friend to step out of the box that just because it was written on Tnation means that it is golden rule, and to discredit another article merely because it was written by a cross fit-er.
You and I are about the same age, how many times can you remember it change in the news about how you should eat your meat? Rare, medium rare, well done, steak tartare..... coffee is good for you coffee is bad for you coffees the greatest thing since sliced bread, sliced bread is bad you should cut it yourself.
There are as many creditable as there are discreditable people on the Internet, we need to learn to sift through the bullshit and not get caught up on just because this person says it's true.
naturalguy
08-28-13, 1:05 pm
I am no expert on Olympic lifting but one point that he does make is correct, in Crossfit the goal is as many reps in a certain time period and when you do that form suffers.
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 1:17 pm
But does it make his opinion the only one that matters?*
It makes him a great author, winning titles makes you a great coach, look at John Wooden, how many pros did he coach?
Of course not, he is just one of the few that goes against the new trendy activity that the masses defends furiously. Like Chris Pappillion speaking out against the ridiculously favored westside meet where lifters were white lighted squatting 4-6 inches high. They are never received well, especially when they go against something popular.
I personally like a legendary coach that goes against the grain and points out the stupidity and or ignorance in what's popular and potentially dangerous due to public ignorance. That's all. It's really to provoke thought.
*His primary point is Crossdressfit is teaching newbie lifters advanced lifts when there has been no true foundation of strength built to support those movements. That's the point.
I am no expert on Olympic lifting but one point that he does make is correct, in Crossfit the goal is as many reps in a certain time period and when you do that form suffers.
Agreed.
Of course not, he is just one of the few that goes against the new trendy activity that the masses defends furiously. Like Chris Pappillion speaking out against the ridiculously favored westside meet where lifters were white lighted squatting 4-6 inches high. They are never received well, especially when they go against something popular.
I personally like a legendary coach that goes against the grain and points out the stupidity and or ignorance in what's popular and potentially dangerous due to public ignorance. That's all. It's really to provoke thought.
*His primary point is Crossdressfit is teaching newbie lifters advanced lifts when there has been no true foundation of strength built to support those movements. That's the point.
I hear what you are saying AB and thank you for clarifying your personal preferences. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water, that article on JTS is worth a read as not all CrossFit coaches suck, do many? Yes, but not all.
Tsypkin is a very knowledgeable coach. I think a lot of the problems with crossfit and the bad rap is bad coaches. But name a sport you can't get that from? I think it is odd that Rippetoe has 0 athletes to his name but to me it seemed like he wanted attention and to side with all the other haters so he wrote an article. I think Jacob from JTS has the best response and it makes sense. I am working w/ someone on the side who has 2 certs in crossfit and owns his own box and he said to watch out for a level 1 coach like Jacob said. It is a weekend course that doesn't justify their knowledge. Olympic lifts are hard but people are retarded generally speaking so that makes it a tough call on a gym as well.
We have had several people come in and ask how to do the strongman stuff, I showed them 400 times and the don't listen. maybe I am an ass but they weren't paying me so I said fuck it and gave up on em.
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." - Bruce Lee
here is another good rebuttal
http://70sbig.com/blog/2013/08/high-rep-olympic-weightlifting/
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 2:26 pm
here is another good rebuttal
http://70sbig.com/blog/2013/08/high-rep-olympic-weightlifting/
Not much of a rebuttal since he supported every one of Rips statements, with the exception of Olympic Lifts as a conditioning tool. Even after the author made that comment, he say that a foundation of strength must be built along with perfection of technique.
Soooooo you basically supported me =)
Rip has plenty of athletes to his name, he is not the type to brag. Like Ed Coan, some of the most humble guys you'd ever meet.
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 2:28 pm
Funny how someone who bucks the system gets such blowback =)
More reason why I like Coach Rip.
I dont think anyone is saying you don't need strength to do weightlifting. Dimitry klokov is obviously stupid strong all around or he couldn't CJ 510 lbs. I just think Mark was smoking crack when he wrote that article. I have never known him to be a great deal of knowledge when it comes to weightlifting so I would immediately ignore any of his ramblings on that. Ironmind is a great source, Burgener, Pendlay etc. Outlaw Crossfit is one you would like Brian. He has created a system that is based on strength as its main focus (which is what Rich at my gym is doing as well). The squat is the most important lift for the Oly lifts. I am doing it 3 times a week so I can really feel a difference.
Rip has plenty of athletes to his name, he is not the type to brag. Like Ed Coan, some of the most humble guys you'd ever meet.
Ed Coen has major lifts to his name.
Does Rip? I am genuinely asking, what has he done besides write books?
G Diesel
08-28-13, 2:46 pm
He is famous and written books, but what world record holder has he coached?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rippetoe
I'm not entirely sure judging a coach by the world record holders he's overseen is the end-all, be-all. That's like judging a teacher by the world leaders he or she has taught.
I'd be just as quick to say who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says. And I've never even read Rippetoe.
Peace, G
Firefist
08-28-13, 3:19 pm
Why isn't anyone up in arms when people do 20 rep sets of squats, deads or bench, but the world goes to shit when there's talk of 20 rep sets of oly lifts? I'd argue that form suffers for the prior at a high rep range as well.
I'd also argue that for every bad crossfit coach out there letting their class perform oly lifts with bad form, there is also a personal trainer or coach letting their team or clients off butchering the big 3.
There are many ways to condition the body. 20 rep squats and deads definitely have gotten my conditioning and many others up in the past. If crossfitters say that 20 snatches have whooped their ass into shape, I won't argue that. Sure, the prowler and sprints are great too, but if one method of conditioning works for someone, I won't discount its effectiveness just because I train otherwise.
A problem I see with form in crossfit is this: their WOD's have set weight ranges for males and females. Thats cool when youre competing and standardizing everything, but if you're beginning and haven't nailed down your form, your Crossfit coach should be cool with letting you complete the workout with a lighter load, empty bar or even a PVC pipe.
I used to be very narrow minded on the subject and disliked crossfit due to some of the crossfitters in my gyms. I grew the fuck up and dropped a pointless vendetta right quick. Why? Cause there are shitty people in this world who crossfit, powerlift, bodybuild, "lead" nations, run "charities", "protect" our communities, etc. No sense hating an idea or a whole group of people just because of a few bad apples.
If crossfitters want to do 30 reps of snatches and muscleups for time in their competitions, good for them. They love what they do, and I have no business telling them high rep oly lifts aren't the way to go.
Why isn't anyone up in arms when people do 20 rep sets of squats, deads or bench, but the world goes to shit when there's talk of 20 rep sets of oly lifts? I'd argue that form suffers for the prior at a high rep range as well.
I'd also argue that for every bad crossfit coach out there letting their class perform oly lifts with bad form, there is also a personal trainer or coach letting their team or clients off butchering the big 3.
There are many ways to condition the body. 20 rep squats and deads definitely have gotten my conditioning and many others up in the past. If crossfitters say that 20 snatches have whooped their ass into shape, I won't argue that. Sure, the prowler and sprints are great too, but if one method of conditioning works for someone, I won't discount its effectiveness just because I train otherwise.
A problem I see with form in crossfit is this: their WOD's have set weight ranges for males and females. Thats cool when youre competing and standardizing everything, but if you're beginning and haven't nailed down your form, your Crossfit coach should be cool with letting you complete the workout with a lighter load, empty bar or even a PVC pipe.
I used to be very narrow minded on the subject and disliked crossfit due to some of the crossfitters in my gyms. I grew the fuck up and dropped a pointless vendetta right quick. Why? Cause there are shitty people in this world who crossfit, powerlift, bodybuild, "lead" nations, run "charities", "protect" our communities, etc. No sense hating an idea or a whole group of people just because of a few bad apples.
If crossfitters want to do 30 reps of snatches and muscleups for time in their competitions, good for them. They love what they do, and I have no business telling them high rep oly lifts aren't the way to go.
Nicely put.
I'm not entirely sure judging a coach by the world record holders he's overseen is the end-all, be-all. That's like judging a teacher by the world leaders he or she has taught.
I'd be just as quick to say who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says. And I've never even read Rippetoe.
Peace, G
Perhaps you are right G Diesel, as for who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says that would be my good friend. My main point, which perhaps I didn't articulate it properly was that we should open our minds to the possibility that other methods may work. Just cause "Joe Shmo" says it doesn't make it truth. Sometimes I feel people "hate" just for the sake of hating. And what does Hating make you?
Altered Beast
08-28-13, 3:51 pm
Ed Coen has major lifts to his name.
Does Rip? I am genuinely asking, what has he done besides write books?
He was a drug free competitive lifter that hit some respectable totals in his weight class. He was also a long time head judge of many of the top federations for a very long period of time.
The man knows what he's doing and doesn't sugar coat anything. He keeps it simple.
I'm not entirely sure judging a coach by the world record holders he's overseen is the end-all, be-all. That's like judging a teacher by the world leaders he or she has taught.
I'd be just as quick to say who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says. And I've never even read Rippetoe.
Peace, G
I agree with G, as ALWAYS! The wisdom is always appreciated.
Why isn't anyone up in arms when people do 20 rep sets of squats, deads or bench, but the world goes to shit when there's talk of 20 rep sets of oly lifts? I'd argue that form suffers for the prior at a high rep range as well.
I'd also argue that for every bad crossfit coach out there letting their class perform oly lifts with bad form, there is also a personal trainer or coach letting their team or clients off butchering the big 3.
There are many ways to condition the body. 20 rep squats and deads definitely have gotten my conditioning and many others up in the past. If crossfitters say that 20 snatches have whooped their ass into shape, I won't argue that. Sure, the prowler and sprints are great too, but if one method of conditioning works for someone, I won't discount its effectiveness just because I train otherwise.
A problem I see with form in crossfit is this: their WOD's have set weight ranges for males and females. Thats cool when youre competing and standardizing everything, but if you're beginning and haven't nailed down your form, your Crossfit coach should be cool with letting you complete the workout with a lighter load, empty bar or even a PVC pipe.
I used to be very narrow minded on the subject and disliked crossfit due to some of the crossfitters in my gyms. I grew the fuck up and dropped a pointless vendetta right quick. Why? Cause there are shitty people in this world who crossfit, powerlift, bodybuild, "lead" nations, run "charities", "protect" our communities, etc. No sense hating an idea or a whole group of people just because of a few bad apples.
If crossfitters want to do 30 reps of snatches and muscleups for time in their competitions, good for them. They love what they do, and I have no business telling them high rep oly lifts aren't the way to go.
That is the best point on this thread thus far! Thanks FF!
G Diesel
08-28-13, 4:37 pm
Perhaps you are right G Diesel, as for who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says that would be my good friend. My main point, which perhaps I didn't articulate it properly was that we should open our minds to the possibility that other methods may work. Just cause "Joe Shmo" says it doesn't make it truth. Sometimes I feel people "hate" just for the sake of hating. And what does Hating make you?
Fair enough man, I put that all a bit bluntly. Mine was an anti-authoritarian, anti-guru, self-empowerment statement, not an indictment of anyone. I know all of these guys know of what they speak and that there are literally endless methods that "work". What works best, we'll likely never know.
As for the hating for the sake of hating, that shit is a deadly virus, spreading like wildfire. It is contagious, so I try my best not to catch it.
Peace, G
IronWilson
08-29-13, 12:47 am
I really hate Mark Ripptoe's articles. The reason is that he deals only in absolutes. Only the bench, squat, deadlift, and shoulder press. And that is nothing new to any of us, he is just really outspoken about it.
I really just can't stand how he would tell anyone, regardless of injuries, circumstances, what their goals are, etc. to do those lifts and nothing else. And and it doesn't seem like he will even consider any other opinions, ideas, or research that would prove his theories otherwise. Even if it is for the pursuit of knowledge. There are different ways to do things and what works for one person will not work for everyone. Again, we know this.
What is worse, are the people who are constantly quoting him and hang on every word he says.
Perhaps you are right G Diesel, as for who gives a fuck what Dave Tate says that would be my good friend. My main point, which perhaps I didn't articulate it properly was that we should open our minds to the possibility that other methods may work. Just cause "Joe Shmo" says it doesn't make it truth. Sometimes I feel people "hate" just for the sake of hating. And what does Hating make you?
Maybe a slight change in the wording of your statement would make more sense.
"Just cause 'Joe Shmo' says it doesn't make it true for everyone. What works for some people may not work for others. Sometimes I feel people 'hate' just for the sake of hating"
That would make a lot more sense. People share their knowledge about what works/ed for them - and in cases of coaches they want to share what works for the majority of their athletes. This never means it's true in all cases - and I think that is a detail that a lot of people forget about when reading these articles like the one Rippetoe posted. I think everyone should take in as much information as they can, sort out what works for them and throw out what doesn't. Learning as much as possible, and learning what works for you as an individual is the only way to keep progressing while staying healthy, in my opinion.
Altered Beast
08-29-13, 9:11 am
I really hate Mark Ripptoe's articles. The reason is that he deals only in absolutes. Only the bench, squat, deadlift, and shoulder press. And that is nothing new to any of us, he is just really outspoken about it.
I really just can't stand how he would tell anyone, regardless of injuries, circumstances, what their goals are, etc. to do those lifts and nothing else. And and it doesn't seem like he will even consider any other opinions, ideas, or research that would prove his theories otherwise. Even if it is for the pursuit of knowledge. There are different ways to do things and what works for one person will not work for everyone. Again, we know this.
What is worse, are the people who are constantly quoting him and hang on every word he says.
He also wants to see Power Cleans, Snatches and Clean and Jerks become popular again in strength circles; particularly, among strength coaches for the mainstream sports.
No one hangs on to every word. You could say the same for Westside followers, Cube followers and Wendler fans. Some of us like the no non sense straight forward approach with basics being the chief principle for building strength. Notice how sooooooo many famous lifters/strength coaches seem to be doing the same. I'm glad a man like Mark Rippetoe is out there bashing the trendy bullshit regardless of how mainstream society views it.
Yeah he speaks in absolutes, a man at his level can most definitely do that. Plus, speaking in absolutes grabs people's attention as well; especially, in a time in history where people seem to lack an attention span.
The message is, keep it simple. I'm personally liking whats coming back around very much. Too much confusion and non sense out there these days.
Maybe a slight change in the wording of your statement would make more sense.
"Just cause 'Joe Shmo' says it doesn't make it true for everyone. What works for some people may not work for others. Sometimes I feel people 'hate' just for the sake of hating"
That would make a lot more sense. People share their knowledge about what works/ed for them - and in cases of coaches they want to share what works for the majority of their athletes. This never means it's true in all cases - and I think that is a detail that a lot of people forget about when reading these articles like the one Rippetoe posted. I think everyone should take in as much information as they can, sort out what works for them and throw out what doesn't. Learning as much as possible, and learning what works for you as an individual is the only way to keep progressing while staying healthy, in my opinion.
You just got the job as my official proof reader and editor.
Respect
. I'm glad a man like Mark Rippetoe is out there bashing the trendy bullshit regardless of how mainstream society views it.
If it wasn't mainstream would you still hate it?
Altered Beast
08-29-13, 12:04 pm
If it wasn't mainstream would you still hate it?
Yes. Due to the fact that building a solid foundation of strength followed by perfection of technique over the long term is not the goal of the activity. The programming is absolutely laughable as well!
Yes. Due to the fact that building a solid foundation of strength followed by perfection of technique over the long term is not the goal of the activity. The programming is absolutely laughable as well!
Thank you,
Not all gyms and coaches fall into this though. There are always exceptions to the majority, there are 'Good' Crossfit coaches as there are 'Bad' powerlifting or Oly coaches, then there are coaches who feel it necessary to teach little boys to shower.
I'm glad to see you have somewhat of an open mind AB.
Respect
Cellardweller
08-29-13, 12:49 pm
So do you guys feel Crossfit should be an intermediate level form of training and competition kinda like putting gear on to powerlift? Or is it acceptable for a novice to start with Crossfit? Maybe this is the same debate but asked in a different way.
Appollonian
08-29-13, 1:27 pm
Why isn't anyone up in arms when people do 20 rep sets of squats, deads or bench, but the world goes to shit when there's talk of 20 rep sets of oly lifts? I'd argue that form suffers for the prior at a high rep range as well.
I'd also argue that for every bad crossfit coach out there letting their class perform oly lifts with bad form, there is also a personal trainer or coach letting their team or clients off butchering the big 3.
There are many ways to condition the body. 20 rep squats and deads definitely have gotten my conditioning and many others up in the past. If crossfitters say that 20 snatches have whooped their ass into shape, I won't argue that. Sure, the prowler and sprints are great too, but if one method of conditioning works for someone, I won't discount its effectiveness just because I train otherwise.
A problem I see with form in crossfit is this: their WOD's have set weight ranges for males and females. Thats cool when youre competing and standardizing everything, but if you're beginning and haven't nailed down your form, your Crossfit coach should be cool with letting you complete the workout with a lighter load, empty bar or even a PVC pipe.
I used to be very narrow minded on the subject and disliked crossfit due to some of the crossfitters in my gyms. I grew the fuck up and dropped a pointless vendetta right quick. Why? Cause there are shitty people in this world who crossfit, powerlift, bodybuild, "lead" nations, run "charities", "protect" our communities, etc. No sense hating an idea or a whole group of people just because of a few bad apples.
If crossfitters want to do 30 reps of snatches and muscleups for time in their competitions, good for them. They love what they do, and I have no business telling them high rep oly lifts aren't the way to go.
Very well put Firefist, thanks for sharing your viewpoint. There is a big difference between ranting about something we dislike, and debating the positives and negatives. The last two paragraphs especially ring true with me.
Fair enough man, I put that all a bit bluntly. Mine was an anti-authoritarian, anti-guru, self-empowerment statement, not an indictment of anyone. I know all of these guys know of what they speak and that there are literally endless methods that "work". What works best, we'll likely never know.
As for the hating for the sake of hating, that shit is a deadly virus, spreading like wildfire. It is contagious, so I try my best not to catch it.
Peace, G
Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing the same thing and don't know if it's just my skewed viewpoint or if others see it the same way.
Firefist
08-29-13, 1:32 pm
So do you guys feel Crossfit should be an intermediate level form of training and competition kinda like putting gear on to powerlift? Or is it acceptable for a novice to start with Crossfit? Maybe this is the same debate but asked in a different way.
I don't see it that way, personally. There are different skills and events in crossfit, just like there is a division in raw/equiped lifters. You can't compare them as such in my eyes.
A crossfitter can be able to kill it in one event, but compete poorly in another event/skill. In the same sense, a very experienced equiped lifter can set a world record total, but cannot post impressive numbers raw. If you argue that some powerlifters can excel in both raw and suited, I absolutely agree, and I raise you the fact that some elite crossfitters also perform well in all facets of their competitions.
A novice crossfitter isnt gonna start out doing 135lb thrusters for reps like the pros, just like a 198lb novice isnt gonna pull 800+ like the goat. No matter what you want to do, at one point youre gonna start out a novice. Whether doing doing snatches with a PVC pipe or deadlifting with an empty bar.... we all start somewhere.
Appollonian
08-29-13, 1:40 pm
So do you guys feel Crossfit should be an intermediate level form of training and competition kinda like putting gear on to powerlift? Or is it acceptable for a novice to start with Crossfit? Maybe this is the same debate but asked in a different way.
I agree with Firefist first of all, but isn't this really a subjective debate?
Personally I prefer powerlifting over crossfit, but I'm sure a dyed in the wool crossfitter will have the opposite viewpoint. And like I've said before I hold anyone who puts in hard work and dedication to whatever sport they pursue in high regards. At least they are pushing themselves to be something better than they used to be before.
Firefist
08-29-13, 1:42 pm
I hold anyone who puts in hard work and dedication to whatever sport they pursue in high regards. At least they are pushing themselves to be something better than they used to be before.
Bingo.
G Diesel
08-29-13, 2:18 pm
So do you guys feel Crossfit should be an intermediate level form of training and competition kinda like putting gear on to powerlift? Or is it acceptable for a novice to start with Crossfit? Maybe this is the same debate but asked in a different way.
I see Crossfit as somewhat "advanced" in that it is sort of complicated, diverse and specific, including some esoteric stuff and Olympic lifting. I would never have a kid just learning to train get too involved in it.
The powerlifting basics and the general understanding of physiology and how your body reacts to weights via standard bodybuilding training, and maybe even some Olympic lifts and technique, should all be learned and "mastered" in due time, prior to doing Crossfit. Crossfit seems to have a lot of potential to hurt someone who is inexperienced.
Crosstraining, on the other hand, has been going on since athletes have exercised to improve performance--combining weights with cardio with plyometrics, etc. I think training this way without the branding of Crossfit or the rigid adherence to the edicts of the method could be something very worthwhile.
Peace, G
G Diesel
08-29-13, 2:18 pm
I agree with Firefist first of all, but isn't this really a subjective debate?
Personally I prefer powerlifting over crossfit, but I'm sure a dyed in the wool crossfitter will have the opposite viewpoint. And like I've said before I hold anyone who puts in hard work and dedication to whatever sport they pursue in high regards. At least they are pushing themselves to be something better than they used to be before.
Bingo.
What these guys said x10.
Peace, G
Altered Beast
08-29-13, 2:34 pm
Thank you,
Not all gyms and coaches fall into this though. There are always exceptions to the majority, there are 'Good' Crossfit coaches as there are 'Bad' powerlifting or Oly coaches, then there are coaches who feel it necessary to teach little boys to shower.
I'm glad to see you have somewhat of an open mind AB.
Respect
Very open minded if there is logic to support the subject and in this case there isn't. You're simply standing up for crossdressfit nowadays because you've started pursuing it; otherwise, you use to bash it as much as the rest of us! Remember that! Good coaches, bad coaches, good gym, etc doesn't really matter. The core of Crossdressfit is the issue that I have a problem with as stated above.
*If one day, the coaches of this activity decide that it will take 5-7 years to properly develop their athletes, than I will pay it some respect as will others; unfortunately, it's not that way nor will it ever be. If it were this way, as opposed to the promise of getting one into instant shape, it wouldn't sell like it does and profits would plummet; therefore, the whole reason of its existence would come into question and it would simply stop selling to the masses. Maybe out of that, some legit programs/gyms/coaches will develop and the world would take crossdressfit more seriously.
Until than, it's laughable as it is to most serious lifters of various sports. The little boy comment is bothersome, but whatever, I know you too well!
I guess by open minded, you mean accept your premise and forget mine, right? Sticking to one's guns is not being close minded, it's standing up for what you believe as long as one sticks to their word and it doesn't change.
Just my 3 cents.
I see Crossfit as somewhat "advanced" in that it is sort of complicated, diverse and specific, including some esoteric stuff and Olympic lifting. I would never have a kid just learning to train get too involved in it.
The powerlifting basics and the general understanding of physiology and how your body reacts to weights via standard bodybuilding training, and maybe even some Olympic lifts and technique, should all be learned and "mastered" in due time, prior to doing Crossfit. Crossfit seems to have a lot of potential to hurt someone who is inexperienced.
Crosstraining, on the other hand, has been going on since athletes have exercised to improve performance--combining weights with cardio with plyometrics, etc. I think training this way without the branding of Crossfit or the rigid adherence to the edicts of the method could be something very worthwhile.
Peace, G
Once again, G and I are on the same page. I just can't seem to sum it up as well as he does! Too much passion on the subject. Trying to learn =)
You're simply standing up for crossdressfit nowadays because you've started pursuing it; otherwise, you use to bash it as much as the rest of us! Remember that! Good coaches, bad coaches, good gym, etc doesn't really matter. The core of Crossdressfit is the issue that I have a problem with as stated above.
Just my 3 cents.
First off, When and where did I bash it?
NEVER misquote me, I never bashed it.
You my friend used to be Pro Westside, now bash it. You used to be Pro geared lifting now bash it.
It is you of thee that you speak, not me.
Find somewhere where I bashed anything other than child-molesting and immoral conduct.
I see Crossfit as somewhat "advanced" in that it is sort of complicated, diverse and specific, including some esoteric stuff and Olympic lifting. I would never have a kid just learning to train get too involved in it.
The powerlifting basics and the general understanding of physiology and how your body reacts to weights via standard bodybuilding training, and maybe even some Olympic lifts and technique, should all be learned and "mastered" in due time, prior to doing Crossfit. Crossfit seems to have a lot of potential to hurt someone who is inexperienced.
Crosstraining, on the other hand, has been going on since athletes have exercised to improve performance--combining weights with cardio with plyometrics, etc. I think training this way without the branding of Crossfit or the rigid adherence to the edicts of the method could be something very worthwhile.
Peace, G
Exactly G. If the lifts were done with proper form and training, Crossfit would be the most intense and insane sports around. The error comes in form of improper coaching. Crossfit itself is fine, the problem is that many people who join these gyms don't know that their coaches suck. So they have fun, get their friends involved and end up looking like fools on the process. If there was proper certification protocols and this sport was being taught correctly, there would still be issues. Raw lifters hate geared lifters. PLs hate CrossFitters. Natty BBs hate "Enhanced" BBs. Everyone complains that our sports don't get proper attention from the media, but who's fauly is that? No coverage for PL meets, WSM or even the O. But the CrossFit games get coverage. Why? Because its more marketable and the athletes stay positive. They don't sit and bash all the other sports. Maybe we can learn something from them.
The JTS seminar I went to was held at Chicago CrossFit. And guess what? Over half the people at the seminar were <gasp> CrossFitters! And when it came time to learn proper form on bench, DL and squat... they all were eager to learn and picked it up quick. So is it the athletes? In most cases, no.
Instead of boycotting and bashing all things CrossFit, let's form alliances with these people and these gyms (the accredited ones) and help further eachother's sports.
Speaking of people who are for one thing one day than another a different day, here is your boy Rip working for CrossFit, now he's against it.....hmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8KQ7mGq0nE
Exactly G. If the lifts were done with proper form and training, Crossfit would be the most intense and insane sports around. The error comes in form of improper coaching. Crossfit itself is fine, the problem is that many people who join these gyms don't know that their coaches suck. So they have fun, get their friends involved and end up looking like fools on the process. If there was proper certification protocols and this sport was being taught correctly, there would still be issues. Raw lifters hate geared lifters. PLs hate CrossFitters. Natty BBs hate "Enhanced" BBs. Everyone complains that our sports don't get proper attention from the media, but who's fauly is that? No coverage for PL meets, WSM or even the O. But the CrossFit games get coverage. Why? Because its more marketable and the athletes stay positive. They don't sit and bash all the other sports. Maybe we can learn something from them.
The JTS seminar I went to was held at Chicago CrossFit. And guess what? Over half the people at the seminar were <gasp> CrossFitters! And when it came time to learn proper form on bench, DL and squat... they all were eager to learn and picked it up quick. So is it the athletes? In most cases, no.
Instead of boycotting and bashing all things CrossFit, let's form alliances with these people and these gyms (the accredited ones) and help further eachother's sports.
Boy knows what he's talking about
Boy knows what he's talking about
Thanks bud. It goes back to what we were talking on the phone about a few weeks ago. We're never gonna see strength sports (including bodybuilding) get proper media coverage if we're too fucking busy bashing eachother. Look at this thread! We've got the Animal "Brotherhood" arguing about a sport that doesn't even concern most of us. Lets stop the bitching and moaning. Maybe it's the old DIY punk in me, but if I see something wrong with something, I figure out how to change it. And that usually involves doing it from the inside out. If that doesn't work... I leave it the fuck alone.
I am doing crossfit now and I feel I know enough about both sides. I use to have something against it but I opened up my eyes a d went in with an open mind. You can bash it all you want but the competitive side if crossfit is insanely strong. I would say the are equally as strong as similar weight powerlifters just not necessarily in the core lifts.
I do agree a lot of the issues are with bad coaches and new lifters. Name one commer iL by. Where you don't see some shitty trainer putting people through stupid ass exercises. I am very passionate about what I do which is a mix and I also feel that if I get down to 230 I can hang with strongman in that same class.
Ab I will never change your mind on it and I know that. I will still give you free hugs :)
Altered Beast
08-29-13, 4:04 pm
First off, When and where did I bash it?
NEVER misquote me, I never bashed it.
You my friend used to be Pro Westside, now bash it. You used to be Pro geared lifting now bash it.
It is you of thee that you speak, not me.
Find somewhere where I bashed anything other than child-molesting and immoral conduct.
I don't bash Westside and still pay homage because it helped me understand the Cube to its core and the beauty of the ME, DE & RE days of training.
I don't bash gear either, I just prefer not to utilize it and want to see the Raw movement come back strong!
*It's funny how at Powerlifting meets everyone supports each other and there is ZERO trash talk or negativity. It's only found outside of the meets. Irony?
Thanks bud. It goes back to what we were talking on the phone about a few weeks ago. We're never gonna see strength sports (including bodybuilding) get proper media coverage if we're too fucking busy bashing eachother. Look at this thread! We've got the Animal "Brotherhood" arguing about a sport that doesn't even concern most of us. Lets stop the bitching and moaning. Maybe it's the old DIY punk in me, but if I see something wrong with something, I figure out how to change it. And that usually involves doing it from the inside out. If that doesn't work... I leave it the fuck alone.
This I likes! Shuk keeps dragging it on because hes a crossfitter now =|
I am doing crossfit now and I feel I know enough about both sides. I use to have something against it but I opened up my eyes a d went in with an open mind. You can bash it all you want but the competitive side if crossfit is insanely strong. I would say the are equally as strong as similar weight powerlifters just not necessarily in the core lifts.
I do agree a lot of the issues are with bad coaches and new lifters. Name one commer iL by. Where you don't see some shitty trainer putting people through stupid ass exercises. I am very passionate about what I do which is a mix and I also feel that if I get down to 230 I can hang with strongman in that same class.
Ab I will never change your mind on it and I know that. I will still give you free hugs :)
Thanks Mark! I was expecting Shuk be that way and you to be the opposite! LOL! Funny how that works!
naturalguy
08-29-13, 4:09 pm
Exactly G. If the lifts were done with proper form and training, Crossfit would be the most intense and insane sports around. The error comes in form of improper coaching. Crossfit itself is fine, the problem is that many people who join these gyms don't know that their coaches suck. So they have fun, get their friends involved and end up looking like fools on the process. If there was proper certification protocols and this sport was being taught correctly, there would still be issues. Raw lifters hate geared lifters. PLs hate CrossFitters. Natty BBs hate "Enhanced" BBs. Everyone complains that our sports don't get proper attention from the media, but who's fauly is that? No coverage for PL meets, WSM or even the O. But the CrossFit games get coverage. Why? Because its more marketable and the athletes stay positive. They don't sit and bash all the other sports. Maybe we can learn something from them.
The JTS seminar I went to was held at Chicago CrossFit. And guess what? Over half the people at the seminar were <gasp> CrossFitters! And when it came time to learn proper form on bench, DL and squat... they all were eager to learn and picked it up quick. So is it the athletes? In most cases, no.
Instead of boycotting and bashing all things CrossFit, let's form alliances with these people and these gyms (the accredited ones) and help further eachother's sports.
You are right on, Crossfit has done an amazing job at marketing. I mean heck it's on ESPN and they pack the stadium, new Crossfit gyms are going up everyday. Look at how fragmented powerlifting is, there are a hundred different organizations, Crossfit has just one.
I think they are very good athletes, if you watch the Crossfit games those guys and the girls are in sick shape and doing stuff that I couldn't do. Crossfit gets a bad rap because there are some elitist that do Crossfit and act like they are superior to others, now that is not all Crossfit people. We sometimes have the same thing with bodybuilders and powerlifters that think their sport is the best.
Altered Beast
08-29-13, 4:11 pm
You are right on, Crossfit has done an amazing job at marketing. I mean heck it's on ESPN and they pack the stadium, new Crossfit gyms are going up everyday. Look at how fragmented powerlifting is, there are a hundred different organizations, Crossfit has just one.
I think they are very good athletes, if you watch the Crossfit games those guys and the girls are in sick shape and doing stuff that I couldn't do. Crossfit gets a bad rap because there are some elitist that do Crossfit and act like they are superior to others, now that is not all Crossfit people. We sometimes have the same thing with bodybuilders and powerlifters that think their sport is the best.
Agreed!
The women look amazing but the men look like women. Don't know if that's good or bad, but the ladies have seriously nice glutes =)
Well half of my post made sense....stupid iPhone.
I do agree a lot of the issues are with bad coaches and new lifters. Name one commercial gym where you don't see some shitty trainer putting people through stupid ass exercises. I am very passionate about what I do which is a mix and I also feel that if I get down to 230 I can hang with strongman in that same class.
I don't bash Westside and still pay homage because it helped me understand the Cube to its core and the beauty of the ME, DE & RE days of training.
I don't bash gear either, I just prefer not to utilize it and want to see the Raw movement come back strong!
*It's funny how at Powerlifting meets everyone supports each other and there is ZERO trash talk or negativity. It's only found outside of the meets. Irony?
This I likes! Shuk keeps dragging it on because hes a crossfitter now =|
Thanks Mark! I was expecting Shuk be that way and you to be the opposite! LOL! Funny how that works!
When did I bash anything?
When did I start doing CrossFit?
The only reason I keep posting in here is cause you (AB) keep misunderstanding me and get on this high horse of knowing it all.
Again,
When did I bash anything?
When did I start doing CrossFit?
I have been know to Cross-Dress on occasion.
Respect,
Shukin
p.s. everything has been done and said in the spirit of fun debate. And Brian I did use your tooth brush at the Arnold
And Brian I did use your tooth brush at the Arnold
Hahahaha... Duuuuuude. So wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYgzOzTJajM
Altered Beast
08-30-13, 8:57 am
Hahahaha... Duuuuuude. So wrong.
LOL! He did no such thing!
He WISHES! =)
LOL! He did no such thing!
He WISHES! =)
I think it boosted my total
Bruiser
08-30-13, 11:06 am
I think it boosted my total
Yeah. The total number of AB's things you've put in your mouth.
Yeah. The total number of AB's things you've put in your mouth.
LMAO
Jealous much?
LMAO
Jealous much?
I'm more concerned if it was your mouth that you put his toothbrush in... you referred to it as a "vibrating" toothbrush instead of electric. Ewwww.
I'm more concerned if it was your mouth that you put his toothbrush in... you referred to it as a "vibrating" toothbrush instead of electric. Ewwww.
Shhh!
Altered Beast
08-30-13, 1:26 pm
This has become AWESOME and totally off topic, but that's welcome =)
I didn't get a chance to read every response in this thread so, if it's been mentioned already, disregard. I know I've seen the same comments about Rippetoe before; questioning his knowledge based on the number of successful lifters he's produced. I own a few of his books, and with the exception of Practical programming, it seems like most of it's geared towards beginners. I know that when I kind of stepped back and took a break from lifting for a time because of health issues, I did try out the Starting Strength model and did see pretty good results. I can't say that it was specifically from the program or if it was just me gaining back what I had (and had lost). Like some of the guys here have stated, I think you can get a little bit of something out of anything, even Rippetoe. It doesn't mean he's right about everything he rants about, but I think he may hit the mark occasionally.
Oh, and I recently started messing around with Crossfit a bit out of shear curiosity. I'm a firefighter so it 'has' helped with the endurance aspect a bit. But I don't think the benefits of crossfit aren't really something that you couldn't achieve with other types of conditioning work. I take the high rep Olympic lifts with a grain of salt. The guys who coach there have always said not to do anything that you're uncomfortable with, and to me, that's one of them. I just scale those workouts and do what I can. In the end, will I stick with it? Who knows. I'm sure the novelty will wear off, but I definitely haven't given up my Dead/squat schedule that I do outside of my days in the "Box" (I hate that term, by the way).
In the end, who knows. :)
Woohoo!
Firefist
08-30-13, 6:23 pm
I didn't get a chance to read every response in this thread so, if it's been mentioned already, disregard. I know I've seen the same comments about Rippetoe before; questioning his knowledge based on the number of successful lifters he's produced. I own a few of his books, and with the exception of Practical programming, it seems like most of it's geared towards beginners. I know that when I kind of stepped back and took a break from lifting for a time because of health issues, I did try out the Starting Strength model and did see pretty good results. I can't say that it was specifically from the program or if it was just me gaining back what I had (and had lost). Like some of the guys here have stated, I think you can get a little bit of something out of anything, even Rippetoe. It doesn't mean he's right about everything he rants about, but I think he may hit the mark occasionally.
Oh, and I recently started messing around with Crossfit a bit out of shear curiosity. I'm a firefighter so it 'has' helped with the endurance aspect a bit. But I don't think the benefits of crossfit aren't really something that you couldn't achieve with other types of conditioning work. I take the high rep Olympic lifts with a grain of salt. The guys who coach there have always said not to do anything that you're uncomfortable with, and to me, that's one of them. I just scale those workouts and do what I can. In the end, will I stick with it? Who knows. I'm sure the novelty will wear off, but I definitely haven't given up my Dead/squat schedule that I do outside of my days in the "Box" (I hate that term, by the way).
In the end, who knows. :)
Woohoo!
No well-thought idea is ever disregarded my friend. I definitely agree with the above.
Altered Beast
09-03-13, 9:02 am
No well-thought idea is ever disregarded my friend. I definitely agree with the above.
As long as he keeps the Powerlifts in his training his will be just fine.
Since you are deloading and need something to do I have another article for you to review
http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2013/09/18/truth-experts-part-2/?fb_action_ids=10201540759028197&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210201540759028197%22%3A237 521383066410%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210201540759028197%22%3A%22og .likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
Be sure to watch these videos before commenting!!!!
Below is a video of the way the Coach Rippetoe teaches the squat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8
And here is a video that is correctly how to teach a squat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx1ZHdvIRQY
Here is another coach agreeing with me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GynDZgEB1U0
None of the above is me or mine, that is quoted from the article. I know you like to squat and know good technique, please give some thoughts.
Cheers AB
Altered Beast
09-18-13, 1:44 pm
You just won't let go will you? Definitely have become Americanized =)
Don't get me wrong but aren't you American? lol
Altered Beast
09-18-13, 1:49 pm
Don't get me wrong but aren't you American? lol
Nope, I'm 110% TEXAN!
Nope, I'm 110% TEXAN!
My geography must be off then...
Altered Beast
09-18-13, 2:03 pm
My geography must be off then...
You're learning =)
Altered Beast
09-18-13, 2:04 pm
Here is a response I left on the website:
This article is an embarrassment to any serious strength coach or strength athlete in the world of lifting. No professional strength coach goes out of his way to personally bash a coach on every conceivable aspect of his being.
Travis, you are quite the unprofessional and "rookie". Lay off the Test for a while and PLEASE stop polluting the world of strength sports with hate filled vitriol. I get you've drank the crossfit cool aid and see the fact that there is a MASSIVE financial incentive in doing so, but this article has NO business in the world of strength sports.
So sad.
*Sounds like ole Travis is trying to make a name for himself by posting a controversial article. Much like Mike T whom I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF until he posted a radical article based on nothing.
Altered Beast
09-18-13, 2:04 pm
Travis is pathetic and that article should be pulled.
You just won't let go will you? Definitely have become Americanized =)
God bless america, land that I love,
Stand beside her and guide her
Through the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans white with foam,
God bless america,
My home sweet home.
Travis is pathetic and that article should be pulled.
According to the information I found Travis Mash is a pretty well accomplished powerlifter and weightlifter. I read the article, I am sure some of it was based on attention to get his name out there but he does have some valid points as well. I tend to squat w/ a more olympic style as the Rip way hurts my low back.
Goldstone
09-18-13, 4:29 pm
Here is a response I left on the website:
This article is an embarrassment to any serious strength coach or strength athlete in the world of lifting. No professional strength coach goes out of his way to personally bash a coach on every conceivable aspect of his being.
Travis, you are quite the unprofessional and "rookie". Lay off the Test for a while and PLEASE stop polluting the world of strength sports with hate filled vitriol. I get you've drank the crossfit cool aid and see the fact that there is a MASSIVE financial incentive in doing so, but this article has NO business in the world of strength sports.
So sad.
*Sounds like ole Travis is trying to make a name for himself by posting a controversial article. Much like Mike T whom I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF until he posted a radical article based on nothing.
Do you know who Travis Mash is and what he's done? He made a name for himself in the WPO by kicking everyone in the powerlifting world's ass in the 220s.
Altered Beast
09-19-13, 9:47 am
According to the information I found Travis Mash is a pretty well accomplished powerlifter and weightlifter. I read the article, I am sure some of it was based on attention to get his name out there but he does have some valid points as well. I tend to squat w/ a more olympic style as the Rip way hurts my low back.
I said it once and I'll say it again, Travis is pathetic and that article should be pulled.
Do you know who Travis Mash is and what he's done? He made a name for himself in the WPO by kicking everyone in the powerlifting world's ass in the 220s.
Read above. The man has no business posting articles or being a strength coach of any kind. He needs to stick to lifting weights and keeping his mouth shut.
Obviously he has ZERO manners or degree of professionalism. No professional coach of ANY KIND goes out of their way to personally bash another coach which BY THE WAY has been in the game decades longer than Travis has. Just because he hit some solid numbers in the WPO that makes him qualified to bash some of the most experienced and well known coaches in the game? I don't think so! Not a sign of a professional coach whatsoever and if he wants to become one, he would remove that article and apologize for his childish behavior.
*If I personally knew Chad Wesley Smith I'd have already been on the phone convincing him to remove this trash from his website as it gives JTS a very bad name.
Did you See this on Facebook AB?
n regards to yesterday's controversy,
I removed the article from the site because it isn't a reflection of how I want to present information.
I could make excuses as to why it was posted but that would be worthless, the fact is I posted it and I am the sole gateway through which our articles must pass and I failed you, our fans and readers.
Travis and I are friends and I respect him as a person, lifter and coach and that hasn't changed.
I agree with many of the sentiments in regards to training that he presented but it was not presented in a way that I want.
Again, I apologize and will do everything from here forward to earn back those whose trust in us wavered, by continuing to provide the highest quality training information possible and support the betterment of training across the board.
Sincerely,
Chad Wesley Smith
Goldstone
09-19-13, 12:29 pm
I said it once and I'll say it again, Travis is pathetic and that article should be pulled.
Read above. The man has no business posting articles or being a strength coach of any kind. He needs to stick to lifting weights and keeping his mouth shut.
Obviously he has ZERO manners or degree of professionalism. No professional coach of ANY KIND goes out of their way to personally bash another coach which BY THE WAY has been in the game decades longer than Travis has. Just because he hit some solid numbers in the WPO that makes him qualified to bash some of the most experienced and well known coaches in the game? I don't think so! Not a sign of a professional coach whatsoever and if he wants to become one, he would remove that article and apologize for his childish behavior.
Travis Mash is NOT some "nobody" and knows a lot more about strength than you do. You could learn a few things from someone like him, but can't see past whatever shit stirring of the week you're trying to do. So what if he said something controversial? Does it have any direct impact on the life of you or your loved ones? He didn't do anything other than write an article that caused some commotion. It will be old news soon, and no one will lose sleep over it.
*If I personally knew Chad Wesley Smith I'd have already been on the phone convincing him to remove this trash from his website as it gives JTS a very bad name.
Why do you feel you are some kind of authority or beacon of knowledge regarding the sport of powerlifting? Do you really think Chad Smith cares what you think? He's running a successful business and doesn't need some guy in Texas that posts selfie videos telling him how to make things better. Controversy sells. Maybe it didn't represent JTS like Chad had intended, but it's still Chad's business. He made a call to have it posted and now it's taken down. Worry about yourself and your training, not what people say.
whatever shit stirring of the week you're trying to do.
In all fairness it was me who was stirring the shit
Altered Beast
09-19-13, 1:28 pm
Did you See this on Facebook AB?
n regards to yesterday's controversy,
I removed the article from the site because it isn't a reflection of how I want to present information.
I could make excuses as to why it was posted but that would be worthless, the fact is I posted it and I am the sole gateway through which our articles must pass and I failed you, our fans and readers.
Travis and I are friends and I respect him as a person, lifter and coach and that hasn't changed.
I agree with many of the sentiments in regards to training that he presented but it was not presented in a way that I want.
Again, I apologize and will do everything from here forward to earn back those whose trust in us wavered, by continuing to provide the highest quality training information possible and support the betterment of training across the board.
Sincerely,
Chad Wesley Smith
Very glad to see that. Chad is a quality guy, I was shocked that that article was on the JTS website. I cannot stand that kind of non sense. It really bothers me to no end.
In all fairness it was me who was stirring the shit
Goldstone did you read that? Whatever hateful feelings you have towards me get over it.
Goldstone
09-19-13, 1:58 pm
Goldstone did you read that? Whatever hateful feelings you have towards me get over it.
Hateful? No. I just have low tolerance for someone that likes to hear himself talk for the sake of talking without contributing much to the overall discussion.
G Diesel
09-19-13, 2:02 pm
This kind of shit amongst grown men is way fucking tacky.
Peace, G
This kind of shit amongst grown men is way fucking tacky.
Peace, G
My brother...
BB-