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LiveFast
12-23-13, 2:28 pm
What are y'all's thoughts on the exercise. I know many who say they are rotator wreckers and many that swear by them.

SomeDayI'llBeXL
12-23-13, 2:32 pm
I like them. I usually do the Klokov version, focusing on "torquing" the weight up, not really pressing it up. I do it every other week, rotating it out with standard Barbell Presses. I have zero shoulders issues, even though i do them in a lower rep range, 2-5 reps per set.

KettleBellFreak
12-23-13, 5:09 pm
Love strict BTN presses, have to use the bar till I get my form down before I add any weight though. And if you have rotator cuff flexibility and mobility, why should it bother it? The past couple months I've used bands for rotator stretches as wel as light DBs and cables. And there is a super noticeable difference in quality of range of motion.

Sprint
12-23-13, 6:32 pm
All you can do is try them for yourself, bro. Start light, use a good but not crazy ROM to begin with, & listen to your body.

LiveFast
12-23-13, 11:47 pm
Will try them out tomorrow. Had rotator problems but bands and stretches really helped out.

Rex
12-24-13, 6:56 pm
All you can do is try them for yourself, bro. Start light, use a good but not crazy ROM to begin with, & listen to your body.


I totally agree. Try them carefully and see how things work out. Everybody´s mechanics are different.
Just to give you an example:

Kevin Levrone did them with 405 in his video, and I heard Marcus Ruhl once say that he can´t even get his arms in that position anymore.

LiveFast
12-25-13, 11:40 am
Tried em out with just the bar. Worked out pretty well. Felt a bit awkward at first but I'm gonna add em to the arsenal.

Rex
12-25-13, 9:20 pm
Tried em out with just the bar. Worked out pretty well. Felt a bit awkward at first but I'm gonna add em to the arsenal.


Just make sure to increase the resistance slowly. That way you will build up strength and range of motion in that movement savely. Patience is key here. As it is in a lot of things in bodybuilding or real life...

G Diesel
12-26-13, 9:15 am
I like them in moderation. You likely shouldn't be going as heavy as you would on a normal seated military press. Also, the range of motion should be more "behind the head" than "behind the neck", in my opinion.

Peace, G

rbowman91
12-26-13, 9:28 am
I think its also a matter of personal preference. I agree with G, i woulidnt set some crazy PR with 315 on them. I would go a little lighter with a higher rep range.

HOWEVER, i've also been told by a doctor that dips are terrible for your rotator cuff. yet ive been doing dips for a while and just getting stronger delts and pecs from it. But my training partner is prone to shoulder issues so he stays away from them. Its up to you to decide your threshold for what kinds of exercises certain muscles can handle.

spartan300
12-26-13, 10:16 am
It was an exercise we used with regularity back in the early 70's, as far as being an effective pressing movement I would have to say DB presses are by far the better way to go. Years of doing behind the neck presses,chins,and pulldowns had taken there toll and I developed some pretty serious issues with my rotators. I made the transition and now keep everything to the front a lot less strain and a greater range of motion. If you do decide to introduce this movement into your delt rotation treat it as an entirely new exercise. Use caution when lowering and bring the bar to the base of your traps. Use "Manageable" loads until it feels totally comfortable. Then proceed with adding as the movement permits and not your EGO!

Rex
12-26-13, 6:41 pm
HOWEVER, i've also been told by a doctor that dips are terrible for your rotator cuff. yet ive been doing dips for a while and just getting stronger delts and pecs from it. But my training partner is prone to shoulder issues so he stays away from them.


That´s exactly my point. Everyone´s Body is a little different. In Bodybuilding there are now bad or good exercises, as there is no wrong or right way of performing a certain lift. The Focus should be finding out what works for YOU as an individual

Deathride
12-27-13, 7:15 am
I think its also a matter of personal preference. I agree with G, i woulidnt set some crazy PR with 315 on them. I would go a little lighter with a higher rep range.

HOWEVER, i've also been told by a doctor that dips are terrible for your rotator cuff. yet ive been doing dips for a while and just getting stronger delts and pecs from it. But my training partner is prone to shoulder issues so he stays away from them. Its up to you to decide your threshold for what kinds of exercises certain muscles can handle.

As you say, its all about your mechanics. I suspect its all about your elbows too - barbell pressing allows you to keep your elbows tucked and reduces shoulder rotation (similar to benching). Behind the neck / head presses force your elbows to be pointed out to the sides putting a lot more rotation onto the shoulder joint and increasing the strain on the shoulders and rotator cuffs.

Dips, I suppose, fall between. I like to keep my elbows to my sides (tucked) to mimic the powerlifting bench. However, I can imagine people's elbows drifting out as the set gets harder and the shoulder rotation increases........

Chad Smith likes seated overhead (literally down to the top of the head) presses as it doesn't quite have the downsides of each lift but allows you to keep pressing......just a thought.

Rex
12-28-13, 6:58 pm
Chad Smith likes seated overhead (literally down to the top of the head) presses as it doesn't quite have the downsides of each lift but allows you to keep pressing......just a thought.


Doesn´t that drastically limit the range of motion?
If I did that, it wouldn´t be much more than locking out my elbows...

Deathride
12-29-13, 5:46 am
Doesn´t that drastically limit the range of motion?
If I did that, it wouldn´t be much more than locking out my elbows...

It would limit the range of motion......I'm not quite sure of his reasoning but possibly shoulder safety? Overloading?

Maccabee
12-30-13, 5:21 pm
Most people who say BTN exercises are no good because they have bad shoulder mobility. I wouldnt recommend doing them if you have pain or any mobility issues.

If your shoulders are healthy I would take a wider grip then usual and bring the bar right behind the head and not to the neck.

If your standing like in a BTN Push Press then obviously you need to bring the bar down to your upper trap region.

That is what I found best, but I dont do BTN's anymore. I am waiting until my left shoulder heals up.

DanoC
01-01-14, 8:17 pm
Anyone ever sit backwards on a shoulder press machine (not weight loaded) and press? It mimics the BTN press, and surprisingly you get a hell of a good burn/pump in the rear delts.

BTN barbell presses & lat pull downs are great movements to mix things up every once in a while...

P Diesel
01-06-14, 1:54 pm
as i do my pressing standing, behind the neck is sum what of a push press variation. check out klokov presses

P

G Diesel
01-06-14, 1:58 pm
An interesting trick that has worked for me in terms of proper execution/safe range of motion, is wearing a hat backwards and touching the bar to the brim.

Peace, G

P Diesel
01-07-14, 10:57 am
An interesting trick that has worked for me in terms of proper execution/safe range of motion, is wearing a hat backwards and touching the bar to the brim.

Peace, G

both stylish and effective

P

G Diesel
01-07-14, 11:27 am
both stylish and effective

P

My goal in everything I do.

Haha.

Peace, G

Cellardweller
01-08-14, 4:55 pm
Had this thought today, what about in a smith machine? Any better? Or just worse since stabilizers are more or less out of the equation?

rainman
01-08-14, 5:36 pm
A few guys at my gym use the Smith for seated BTN military presses, setting the safety catches just below the shoulders, so the bar can go down to maybe ear level. I've never tried them personally, but figure it'd be a fairly sound option. Putting a 45lb plate between the bench and the Smith floor plate will stop the bench from moving around too.

brentwillisbgw
01-09-14, 9:21 pm
My shoulder mobility has always been pretty terrible, but I've always loved BTN presses. I usually go down to ear-level and as long as I focus on keeping my rear delts and lats engaged then I won't have any shoulder pain. I've found that the tightness I have at the bottom feels really similar to the tightness I need at the bottom of a bench.