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Beowulf
01-13-14, 11:37 am
I'm not talking about regular folks joining a gym and training to get in shape and live healthier lives. I'm talking about the mainstream perception of sports like pro bodybuilding and powerlifting. In the last 5 years or so, have these two sports grown and become more acceptable to mainstream America? Or less? Or stayed the same? Are serious lifters still perceived as "meatheads"? Are these sports still seen as havens for athletes who abuse drugs, etc? In short, is there more or a negative or positive association with weightlifting at the highest levels?

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
01-13-14, 11:48 am
Way more mainstream. I remember being the "weirdo" with the water jug that trained every day and ate all the chicken patties in the cafeteria.

Now every guy I know "trains" 4-5x a week, eats grilled chicken salads, and drinks protein shakes.

Hell, at the end of my college days.. I've been to parties where half the guys were drinking their choice of alcohol from shaker cups.

G Diesel
01-13-14, 1:31 pm
I think the supplement industry has something to do with that more mainstream acceptance of iron culture, in that it bridges the gap between hardcore bodybuilding and powerlifting and the regular dude looking to improve his physique or performance. Protein shakes and preworkouts are pretty common these days.

Also, social networking has made an impact, on a very surface and superficial level (not using those words negatively). Platforms like FB or Instagram have given people a chance to showcase their body or their lifestyle in a way that easily gets the attention of others, which can set off a series of events quite quickly, possibly converting the uninitiated overnight. A picture certainly can speak a thousand words.

Peace, G

Beowulf
01-13-14, 1:58 pm
Way more mainstream. I remember being the "weirdo" with the water jug that trained every day and ate all the chicken patties in the cafeteria.

Now every guy I know "trains" 4-5x a week, eats grilled chicken salads, and drinks protein shakes.

Hell, at the end of my college days.. I've been to parties where half the guys were drinking their choice of alcohol from shaker cups.

For sure, Chase. I think living a healthy lifestyle (training and eating properly) is more mainstream than ever. I guess what I was really asking was, with all this, do more average Americans think positively of the sport as is represented in magazines and online?


I think the supplement industry has something to do with that more mainstream acceptance of iron culture, in that it bridges the gap between hardcore bodybuilding and powerlifting and the regular dude looking to improve his physique or performance. Protein shakes and preworkouts are pretty common these days.

Also, social networking has made an impact, on a very surface and superficial level (not using those words negatively). Platforms like FB or Instagram have given people a chance to showcase their body or their lifestyle in a way that easily gets the attention of others, which can set off a series of events quite quickly, possibly converting the uninitiated overnight. A picture certainly can speak a thousand words.

Peace, G

That's a good point. The internet and social media have allowed niche sports like bodybuilding and powerlifting to reach a potentially wider audience. But does that wider audience care any more than they did 5 years ago? 10 years ago? I might argue that the pinnacle of bodybuilding occurred in the 1970s, for example. Back then, the mainstream embraced bodybuilding. Movies like "Pumping Iron" got tremendous national billing.

Chase "BIG COUNTRY" Browning
01-13-14, 2:42 pm
For sure, Chase. I think living a healthy lifestyle (training and eating properly) is more mainstream than ever. I guess what I was really asking was, with all this, do more average Americans think positively of the sport as is represented in magazines and online?



That's a good point. The internet and social media have allowed niche sports like bodybuilding and powerlifting to reach a potentially wider audience. But does that wider audience care any more than they did 5 years ago? 10 years ago? I might argue that the pinnacle of bodybuilding occurred in the 1970s, for example. Back then, the mainstream embraced bodybuilding. Movies like "Pumping Iron" got tremendous national billing.

I think that by default they care more.. just because their interests are peaked due to "their" goals whatever they may be. Do I think every kid training wants to look like Ox? No.. but I think they hope to learn something from a video of Mr. O or an article on IFBB PRO - -'s offseason diet. They may not look at it in a positive light, but they know where there knowledge and resources are.

G Diesel
01-13-14, 2:49 pm
I think that by default they care more.. just because their interests are peaked due to "their" goals whatever they may be. Do I think every kid training wants to look like Ox? No.. but I think they hope to learn something from a video of Mr. O or an article on IFBB PRO - -'s offseason diet. They may not look at it in a positive light, but they know where there knowledge and resources are.

Right. I think that often those new to the lifestyle look to mainstream athletes and movie stars for fitness inspiration, but often behind the scenes, those traditional role models look to our subculture for their answers/education/inspiration.

Peace, G

Beowulf
01-13-14, 3:32 pm
I think that by default they care more.. just because their interests are peaked due to "their" goals whatever they may be. Do I think every kid training wants to look like Ox? No.. but I think they hope to learn something from a video of Mr. O or an article on IFBB PRO - -'s offseason diet. They may not look at it in a positive light, but they know where there knowledge and resources are.

Again, I'm not talking about that kid who already knows about pro bodybuilding and follows the sport. I'm talking about everyone else, the "mainstream".


Right. I think that often those new to the lifestyle look to mainstream athletes and movie stars for fitness inspiration, but often behind the scenes, those traditional role models look to our subculture for their answers/education/inspiration.

Peace, G

In the old days, those role models you speak of were part of the subculture. Again, I reference "Pumping Iron" and how Arnold Schwarzenegger effectively recast the definition for what an "action hero" was after the 70s. That's that new bodybuilding movie, "Generation Iron", that some have likened to today's version of "Pumping Iron", but I'm not convinced this movie has captured the imagination of the general public in the same way "Pumping Iron" did. Why is that? Quality of the movies? The cultural landscape is vastly different today than it was in the 70s? The thing is, mainstreams sports are, today, highly connected to drug scandals. And it's not just pro football and baseball. Drugs have also impacted cycling and Olympic sports. So I wonder if bodybuilding is still seen as that hotbed for drug use. We all know it's not. But has this made any difference in the way the public sees the sport? I don't know.

Big Wides
01-13-14, 3:45 pm
Again, I'm not talking about that kid who already knows about pro bodybuilding and follows the sport. I'm talking about everyone else, the "mainstream".

Nope, I still believe that it is mainly an activity that only those who know about it will follow and do. Granted has the number of people who compete increased? Yes it has, but we are still at the subculture level. Mainstream America will not fully accept BBing or PLing any time soon because of the sterotypes that still surround these activities, the physical appearance it gives and time it takes. Take a look at Crossfit, it is considered as mainstream since it takes little time to do and the outcomes of the training give an appearance that is physically appealing and mainstream itself. If you were to poll 100 people, 95 of them wouldn't want to look like a powerlifter or a bodybuilder, not many people find these physiques appealing. They would rather go with something more in line with what the movies are putting out or even the magazines, they promote a healthy looking average guy, who isn't obese.

Take even a look at the new class that the NPC and IFBB put in to, in my opinion try and make themselves mainstream, and I think it's Men's Physique or something? It's the one that they wear board shorts in. Just look at those guys and compare it to, what we view as a normal bodybuilder.....two different physiques. One that appeals to people as a normal body (the board short dude) vs. something that many find not normal (the typical bodybuilder).

It's going to take a lot to change viewpoints on this one with the majority of America, the society doesn't breed people with this mindset nor do they want to promote it.

Beowulf
01-13-14, 3:55 pm
Nope, I still believe that it is mainly an activity that only those who know about it will follow and do. Granted has the number of people who compete increased? Yes it has, but we are still at the subculture level. Mainstream America will not fully accept BBing or PLing any time soon because of the sterotypes that still surround these activities, the physical appearance it gives and time it takes. Take a look at Crossfit, it is considered as mainstream since it takes little time to do and the outcomes of the training give an appearance that is physically appealing and mainstream itself. If you were to poll 100 people, 95 of them wouldn't want to look like a powerlifter or a bodybuilder, not many people find these physiques appealing. They would rather go with something more in line with what the movies are putting out or even the magazines, they promote a healthy looking average guy, who isn't obese.

Take even a look at the new class that the NPC and IFBB put in to, in my opinion try and make themselves mainstream, and I think it's Men's Physique or something? It's the one that they wear board shorts in. Just look at those guys and compare it to, what we view as a normal bodybuilder.....two different physiques. One that appeals to people as a normal body (the board short dude) vs. something that many find not normal (the typical bodybuilder).

It's going to take a lot to change viewpoints on this one with the majority of America, the society doesn't breed people with this mindset nor do they want to promote it.

I think many of your points are right on, Big Wides. I think the sport (as run and organized by the NPC/IFBB) has gone through a changes though with the implementation of new weight categories and the demise of female bodybuilding as you've pointed out. The rise of figure and bikini has been pretty impressive. Like you also pointed out, we now have men's physique. Is it growing faster than bodybuilding? It wouldn't surprise me at all. So have these new categories risen at the expense of traditional male bodybuilding? I don't know.

I watch most sports on TV, from football and baseball to hockey and golf. I don't necessarily want to look like a linebacker or a basketball center, but I can still appreciate those sports and they keep my attention. I don't think you have to want to look like a bodybuilder to appreciate the sport. In other words, the lack of mainstream interest doesn't necessarily have to do with what the athletes look like or whether we can aspire to their physiques in my opinion. If that's right, what's really preventing bodybuilding (and powerlifting) from gaining a wider foothold?

Maccabee
01-13-14, 4:46 pm
America will always take a shit on bodybuilding and powerlifting because of the drug issue. Look at the baseball players for example. First they are your hero, and once they admit or get caught everyone shits on them. Pro Bodybuilding and Pro Powerlifting is the same thing only difference is that its pretty much known who is taking and who is not. Its right in your face. This isnt a drug post or bashing anyone...I understand everyone does what they need to. This is just my opinion.

Beowulf
01-14-14, 10:11 am
America will always take a shit on bodybuilding and powerlifting because of the drug issue. Look at the baseball players for example. First they are your hero, and once they admit or get caught everyone shits on them. Pro Bodybuilding and Pro Powerlifting is the same thing only difference is that its pretty much known who is taking and who is not. Its right in your face. This isnt a drug post or bashing anyone...I understand everyone does what they need to. This is just my opinion.

Great point. When you see other pros in other sports, it's not so clear that they may use performance-enhancing drugs. In bodybuilding, it's right there in front of you. So you're right about that.

Ox
01-14-14, 5:29 pm
It seems like the sport has grown as there are more supplement companies now than ever before, trade shows and expos are big etc. And as G said, it's safe to say that the supplement companies have played a large role in "bridging the gap" as supplementation is more commonplace now than ever before. But at the same time, it seems like unless aside from the fans of the sport and those who partake in it somehow, the mainstream acceptance of bodybuilding was greater in the past. I haven't been in the sport long enough to say for certain but as someone on the outside looking in, mainstream acceptance of bodybuilding seems like it hit its peak around the time Lee Haney was winning the Olympia. But anyone who has watched the sport or been part of the industry for the past 30+ years would be more qualified to say than me!

Ox
01-14-14, 5:54 pm
Great point. When you see other pros in other sports, it's not so clear that they may use performance-enhancing drugs. In bodybuilding, it's right there in front of you. So you're right about that.

Hahahahahaha...most people don't even realzie what PEDs are! Did you watch the segment on A-Rod the other night? Baseball players use "PEDs". Bodybuilders use STEROIDS, JUICE, GAS etc! The average person doesn't realize that they're the same thing! To take it one step further, do you think the average person watching t.v. realizes that when he sees a commercial for "low t" and a pharma company is advertising a medication for it (testosterone) it's also the same thing?! And I'll do even do you one better than that; if you were to walk into your doctor's office and say "Doc, I want STEROIDS!" I'd be willing to bet that he would look at you astounded and say something to the effect of "Steroids are Illegal. I can't prescribe steroids!" Then if you asked him if he prescribes testosterone he'd be like "Yeah, when need be. What of it?!" It's just the ridiculousness of the media and the far reaching effects of ignorance.

Beowulf
01-15-14, 11:45 am
Hahahahahaha...most people don't even realzie what PEDs are! Did you watch the segment on A-Rod the other night? Baseball players use "PEDs". Bodybuilders use STEROIDS, JUICE, GAS etc! The average person doesn't realize that they're the same thing! To take it one step further, do you think the average person watching t.v. realizes that when he sees a commercial for "low t" and a pharma company is advertising a medication for it (testosterone) it's also the same thing?! And I'll do even do you one better than that; if you were to walk into your doctor's office and say "Doc, I want STEROIDS!" I'd be willing to bet that he would look at you astounded and say something to the effect of "Steroids are Illegal. I can't prescribe steroids!" Then if you asked him if he prescribes testosterone he'd be like "Yeah, when need be. What of it?!" It's just the ridiculousness of the media and the far reaching effects of ignorance.

I've read enough newspapers to know that many use the term "steroids" when talking about baseball. But you're right, PEDs are often used as well. The Media, the one that covers drug scandals in pro sports, hardly covers bodybuilding and only when something really negative happens.

C.Coronato
01-15-14, 12:12 pm
I think the implementation of the "Physique" class has added more more acceptance to the real world on-lookers of the bodybuilding industry. However, i don't ever see "bodybuilders" really being accepted, unfortunately.

Beowulf
01-15-14, 12:25 pm
But at the same time, it seems like unless aside from the fans of the sport and those who partake in it somehow, the mainstream acceptance of bodybuilding was greater in the past.


I think the implementation of the "Physique" class has added more more acceptance to the real world on-lookers of the bodybuilding industry. However, i don't ever see "bodybuilders" really being accepted, unfortunately.

I agree. As others have said, with more supplement companies you'll get more ads featuring bodybuilders in the magazines. There's probably more money in bodybuilding too, at least at the highest levels than ever before. But in terms of interest on Main Street America and even among fans, bodybuilding seems to be on the decline.

G Diesel
01-15-14, 12:33 pm
I always found the counter-culture, underground vibe of our lifestyle to be one of the draws.

The fact that it isn't for everybody, that some people mock or deride it--or simply don't understand it, that has always been part of what made it so appealing.

The more widely accepted it became, perhaps the greater risk it might lose its soul.

Peace, G

C.Coronato
01-15-14, 12:35 pm
The more widely accepted it became, perhaps the greater risk it might lose its soul.


Speaking The Truth. There was always that mystique factor when you saw guys like Lee Priest, who would walk around, and jaws would drop. People didn't know what planet he came from.

Beowulf
01-15-14, 12:37 pm
I always found the counter-culture, underground vibe of our lifestyle to be one of the draws.

The fact that it isn't for everybody, that some people mock or deride it--or simply don't understand it, that has always been part of what made it so appealing.

The more widely accepted it became, perhaps the greater risk it might lose its soul.

Peace, G

You mean like baseball and football, right? Are those soulless? I'm sure the fans would say no.

So continue to allow bodybuilding to remain closed and those negative stereotypes about the athletes and the sport to perpetuate?

By openign it up, the sport may gain new legitimacy and bring a new infusion of interest and establish a greater fan base.

Universal Rep
01-21-14, 10:21 am
I'm not talking about regular folks joining a gym and training to get in shape and live healthier lives. I'm talking about the mainstream perception of sports like pro bodybuilding and powerlifting. In the last 5 years or so, have these two sports grown and become more acceptable to mainstream America? Or less? Or stayed the same? Are serious lifters still perceived as "meatheads"? Are these sports still seen as havens for athletes who abuse drugs, etc? In short, is there more or a negative or positive association with weightlifting at the highest levels?

More folks goin to the gym than ever before and getting acquainted with the iron... But as for the sport of bodybuilding, I think its less mainstream and more niche than ever. Now sum would say bein niche and small is kinda like a badge of honor, sumthin only for the elite. But lets face it, do most competitive BBers want the sport to be small time forever? Like professional bridge? Don't think so.

G Diesel
01-21-14, 10:31 am
You mean like baseball and football, right? Are those soulless? I'm sure the fans would say no.

So continue to allow bodybuilding to remain closed and those negative stereotypes about the athletes and the sport to perpetuate?

By openign it up, the sport may gain new legitimacy and bring a new infusion of interest and establish a greater fan base.

I love baseball and football. Always have. But yes, I think the soul of those games is tarnished by broader commercialization and corporate interests.

It is the job of those who carry the flag for our subculture--presumably guys like you and I and our FORVM brethren, to break down these stereotypes. To be smart and charming and worldly and kind and humble to people who might consider us dumb and vain. I revel in those opportunities. Personally, I think guys like Arnold did as well.

I think the drug issue is the same deal. There are many very big and strong guys with great physiques who don't use drugs. And there are plenty of really good human beings who do. It isn't necessarily one or the other. People have more depth and dimension than that.

Peace, G

Universal Rep
01-21-14, 10:34 am
I love baseball and football. Always have. But yes, I think the soul of those games is tarnished by broader commercialization and corporate interests.


Time to focus ur attention on college ball... Or even high school, haha.

G Diesel
01-21-14, 10:38 am
Time to focus ur attention on college ball... Or even high school, haha.

The NCAA is one of the biggest, most hypocritical corporate enterprises there is. But I've always loved college hoops and college football.

Peace, G

Universal Rep
01-21-14, 10:40 am
The NCAA is one of the biggest, most hypocritical corporate enterprises there is. But I've always loved college hoops and college football.

Peace, G

Time to tune into Ivy or Patriot League games... Less/no money there. Lehigh vs. Lafayette, tremendous rivalry. Or Pee Wee football. Talk about playin for the pure love of the sport. Tiny tykes lookin to crush it on the gridiron...

G Diesel
01-21-14, 10:49 am
Time to tune into Ivy or Patriot League games... Less/no money there. Lehigh vs. Lafayette, tremendous rivalry. Or Pee Wee football. Talk about playin for the pure love of the sport. Tiny tykes lookin to crush it on the gridiron...

Those schools have no money for sports programs but are generally the social elite. I'd rather see kids come from nothing put their gifts on display on the world stage.

And yes, I agree, there is a purity to true amateur athletics. I'm a big fan of Olympic athletes as many of them are the best at what they do, but are in it only for the love.

Peace, G

Universal Rep
01-21-14, 10:52 am
Those schools have no money for sports programs but are generally the social elite. I'd rather see kids come from nothing put their gifts on display on the world stage.

And yes, I agree, there is a purity to true amateur athletics. I'm a big fan of Olympic athletes as many of them are the best at what they do, but are in it only for the love.

Peace, G

Nice generalizing G... Sure, there are kids from the social elite at any school, but these kids at these schools play for the love of the sport as theyre not getting their tuition paid for to play those sports in college. There are many kids who "come from nothin" who go to Ivy or Colonial league schools...

G Diesel
01-21-14, 11:02 am
Nice generalizing G... Sure, there are kids from the social elite at any school, but these kids at these schools play for the love of the sport as theyre not getting their tuition paid for to play those sports in college. There are many kids who "come from nothin" who go to Ivy or Colonial league schools...

Fair enough. Didn't mean to paint with too broad a brush. Just filtering through my own life experiences.

I respect anyone who is good enough to play on that level. And find it remarkable when you can be that formidable a student as well. No denying that.

Peace, G

Ox
01-21-14, 11:04 am
Fair enough. Didn't mean to paint with too broad a brush. Just filtering through my own life experiences.

I respect anyone who is good enough to play on that level. And find it remarkable when you can be that formidable a student as well. No denying that.

Peace, G

Why you gotta pick on the smart kids?!

Universal Rep
01-21-14, 11:08 am
Why you gotta pick on the smart kids?!

I know, rite? Haha...

Athletes bust their assess on the field, the smart kids in the classroom.

G Diesel
01-21-14, 11:18 am
Why you gotta pick on the smart kids?!


I know, rite? Haha...

Athletes bust their assess on the field, the smart kids in the classroom.

My experience teaches that the "smart kids" or kids from better backgrounds have many more options, that's all. Often ball is the only ticket for kids from bad circumstances.

I lived for sports growing up, but once I realized I wasn't going to be the starting point guard for Syracuse, I pivoted and changed the focus of my life. The ability to do so is a luxury not all have.

Peace, G

Shukin
01-21-14, 11:32 am
I feel it is difficult to label something 'pure', in fact once you label you exclude.

Kids might get into T-ball out of a pure love for the sport of baseball but what about the pressures some of their parents place on them that takes the 'love' and 'purity' the child once had right the F out of it.

Also I don't think some things can be explained through words, hence the Buddha never gave descriptions of enlightenment, hi picked up a flower and transmitted the truth to the one who smiled. I had a very long conversation with a 50 year old bodybuilder whom most of you know the other day. I asked him "why he did it? why he spent so much money for no hopes of any financial return, why he put his body through it, his family, etc." He couldn't describe it, couldn't put words to the 'feeling' he got training, dieting and competing. Unless you are that person or have traveled a similar road as he you can not relate. Many in here can, other may never. It was one of the most insightful conversations I ever had, though not a competitive bodybuilder myself I felt the 'passion' he has for that sport might be similar to the passions I have for other thing.

It is ironic that I am trying to describe in written word that which we had a hard time expressing in spoken word, I am hoping that someone can understand what I am trying to say and say it better than me.

respect,
S

G Diesel
01-21-14, 12:13 pm
Also I don't think some things can be explained through words, hence the Buddha never gave descriptions of enlightenment, hi picked up a flower and transmitted the truth to the one who smiled. I had a very long conversation with a 50 year old bodybuilder whom most of you know the other day. I asked him "why he did it? why he spent so much money for no hopes of any financial return, why he put his body through it, his family, etc." He couldn't describe it, couldn't put words to the 'feeling' he got training, dieting and competing. Unless you are that person or have traveled a similar road as he you can not relate. Many in here can, other may never. It was one of the most insightful conversations I ever had, though not a competitive bodybuilder myself I felt the 'passion' he has for that sport might be similar to the passions I have for other thing.

It is ironic that I am trying to describe in written word that which we had a hard time expressing in spoken word, I am hoping that someone can understand what I am trying to say and say it better than me.

respect,
S

This is great. Very profound sentiment here.

Peace, G

Merc_enary
01-22-14, 12:42 pm
I think the implementation of the "Physique" class has added more more acceptance to the real world on-lookers of the bodybuilding industry. However, i don't ever see "bodybuilders" really being accepted, unfortunately.

I couldn't agree with this more. In my experience you can see this by visiting different types of gyms and by this I mean what its seen as a "hardcore" gym vs any other like 24 or LA. Prime example is when i would invite people to join me but they decline because "you have to look a certain way to train there".

PapaCobra
01-26-14, 9:13 pm
I don't think BBing or PLing will ever gain mainstream acceptance until 1) the stigma of steroids goes away and 2) lifting, as a sport/activity is introduced to young kids. Neither of these two things are very likely in our society, especially with the trend towards the vilification of any testosterone fueled personality traits. Aggression is seen as something to stop rather than channel into proper venues. As long as we keep trying to teach our kids that feeling that rushes through you when you want to push/pull/carry/throw something heavy with all that in you is wrong, strength sports are always gonna make people uneasy.

That being said, I do see a rise in popularity that hasn't yet peaked. But popularity takes a long time to become mainstream.

Now, if I may ask you guys, does anyone else have a problem with the board shorts in the "Men's Physique" division? Its the only class that allows you completely obscure an entire section of your musculature. I don't think any physique contest should essentially say "no, its OK, you don't have to train legs", haha!