sleep or work out

[insatiableOne]

Realize they are extremely important for both. Added a second job working 7 days a week, on Friday into Saturday straight back to back.

My question is I really don't want to miss a workout, but...the the 8 hour recovery time from the day before. What do you guys think the tipping point where not enough sleep vs the need to NOT workout (is there one?)
Getting extremely tougher that I'm not in my 20's hell even 30's was no big deal. Now it seems I need to rest & recover more.
Although the missed days seem to add up & I'm getting pissed about it.

so help me out here..> currently trying to shred with Animal Cuts + Keto diet, then off week with Animal Stack.

What is your opinion on this?

[Swolepez]

i think the best bet is a combination of both: reducing workout days and losing some sleep here and there...

So for example...if your working out 5-6x per wk, cut it down to 4...that way you get an extra rest day or 2 every wk.....and on the days you don't workout, you get more sleep...On the days you do workout, just know you have to be willing to lose some sleep those nights to achieve your goals...

You can also take Animal PM or ZMA Pro on the nights you lift. That way, even though you might not be getting a ton of sleep (time wise) at least you can make sure that the hours you are sleeping are of quality deep sleep..


You will know when your losing too much sleep when your training, nutrition, and supplementation is stilll the same but yet your waking up more sore than usual...taking more time to recover...feeling out of energy..losing a little bit of strength, etc...

[GunRock]

I work three to four 12 hour night shifts every week and sometimes I get only 5 hours of sleep. I take PM everyday whether I'm training or not. Lack of sleep decreases testtestosterone levels and that's a big deal at my age. PM seems to make the difference. I also lift only four days a week, I put at least two lifting days on days when I don't work. My training isn't as long as it used to be I go with a primary movement that I have to do then base how involved I get with accessories on how I feel.
You will adjust but until you do I would focus on training less frequently but make each session count. Then use time out of the gym for cardio, mobility and nutrition.

[insatiableOne]

Thanks Swolepez & Gunrock

I have been trying to get quality sleep taking Valerian root, pretty much the active ingredient in about all sleep aids for the deep RMS sleep at a fraction of the cost.

What I have training is similar to what described just some days when I feel like I have gotten run over & beat up, I try to stay in bed. Then get upset later that I wish I worked out. So when I get the longer, almost day off Sunday afternoon to night I will try to play catch up, then hit it hard when I can. Think that is why I am so tired, when I do work out I put in a hard one. I was doing 10 days on 2 off. This schedule is throwing me off until I get used to it. I'll try what you guys suggested with modified recovery time when a must.


Well, thank you again for your time and thought for my particular situation.

[Jay Nera]

Realize they are extremely important for both. Added a second job working 7 days a week, on Friday into Saturday straight back to back.

My question is I really don't want to miss a workout, but...the the 8 hour recovery time from the day before. What do you guys think the tipping point where not enough sleep vs the need to NOT workout (is there one?)
Getting extremely tougher that I'm not in my 20's hell even 30's was no big deal. Now it seems I need to rest & recover more.
Although the missed days seem to add up & I'm getting pissed about it.

so help me out here..> currently trying to shred with Animal Cuts + Keto diet, then off week with Animal Stack.

What is your opinion on this?



Training is the stimulus and recovery is when we adapt or grow or get stronger etc.. I f i haven't trained in days I will choose to go train, to stimulate adaptation… if I have recently trained but haven't been eating and sleeping well, then moving onto the next session could be detrimental. I mean the whole overtraining under training thing is a huge idea… but really its just the accumulation of fatigue that is detrimental… its a really long topic… sorry.

The main thing i wanted to comment on was that you are eating Keto and using animal cuts while in a shredding phase. So you are likely in a caloric deficit which makes it harder for your body to recover. So given that information, I would simply rest so that I feel great later…the only exception is that if i were to feel as though training would make me feel more lively than resting…you know, those times when you just NEED to train.

[insatiableOne]

You know Jay Nera, that is some great insight to my question.

Surely the fatigue factor that you described plays a huge factor, game changer even. The way you explained this nailed it, that is why I was turning for some advice and input.


Glad everyone is in somewhat agreement to a careful judgement path. My real concern was possible injury from over training vs over exertion from being worn out over a length of time, as it seems to really add up. I make certain to warm up and stretch properly to try and avoid such a potential issue.

[GunRock]

I forgot to ask before I give advice earlier (which I should have my bad) whether you are training for a specific event or not. Because I tend to be more accepting of fatigue if I'm training for a competition like a powerlifting meet because I know that I'm going to take a deload week leading into the meet. Or to put it another way, I don't mind if I trained tired to a certain extent, because my philosophy is that the more training sucks the easier the actual competition events will feel. So it's a huge psychological boost just when I need it!
If you were just talking about general training, then my previous advice stands.

[insatiableOne]

No, you were concise.

I'm only training.. as I am getting older, do not have a extreme physical job anymore, and refuse to be out of shape.
So no, just training for my life and well being.
Although I am currently embarrassed that I was slipping and started to notice some visceral fat on my midsection. Wanted to try and shred it down before trying to add on more mass.

Did several cleanses, 42 day fast, lost 30 lbs down to (130) lbs.
Then bulked up 30 lbs of muscle mass(161.5). > waist got bigger too
On this last cycle of cuts lost 7-10 lbs (vary) day to day. eh(155-151.5)
Just do not want to put on a bunch of muscle while have too much body fat. I can feel loosing fat.

I'm still having trouble ripping down the last inch or so off my mid section!!! ( maybe little more?
But it still sucks.


I am taking the off week from the Cuts, and started taking the Stack again. Should I continue till the end of the can or go back to the cuts after the week is out? And continue back on the Keto and cuts.

I'm on my forth can in a row so after this one will take off a two week break. Still work out though. Yes / No

[insatiableOne]

One more concern for the guys that said they work EXTRA extra hours.

Like when I leave my one job > then go directly to the next, how do you adjust your diet for this?
I know getting off subject here, just how do you keep going?

Extra meals?
Spread them out for 20 hours?
Just drink coffee or water?

[Aggression]

Ya just gotta get it done. Find a way. Whether that meals adding in an extra meal, relying on too many stimulants, skipping the days workout, or a combination of all, you just have to go with the flow. We don't have the luxury to sleep 10hrs a day and eat 8 meals worth of cage free chicken and eggs. Just roll with it, my man. You'll find a way. If you miss a meal or two, or only get 3hrs of sleep that night, it's fine. Just get back on track when you can. Shit, I routinely pull 16hr days, overnights, sleep for 3hrs and get up to clang and bang. Might suck. But the job gets done

[Tifferzzz]

I think you're extraordinary for striving for success as opposed to just stopping completely because you "don't have time" (a common statement by many). With the integration of cuts and the keto diet my advice would be to listen to your agitation. If you find yourself lagging, unfocused when you're at the gym, and irritable than I would suggest evaluating your hours of sleep (as well as your level of carbohydrate intake). When I tried to cut that hard it killed my ability to tolerate anything to where - I wanted to kill everyone. If you find yourself alert and well rested but annoyed at not working out enough - then shift a bit of your sleep to training.

[skibasgym]

It's a very personal decision as to your tolerance of sleep vs effective training. Listen to your body. If you feel exceptionally tired, listen to your body and maybe back it down a little. But you have a great attitude to train no matter what. Let's be real that's it's easy to take a day off. Use whatever gets you "up" for the workout and keep your head straight. Good luck to you

[insatiableOne]

For what its worth everyone had well intention and even the the advice had varying and different approaches. All gave encouragement to keep on pushing uphill. So a sincere Thank You.

So I took off Friday for the double (have to stay up for over 30+ hours. Then got 6 hours sleep, woke up hit the weights hard then went to work.
Smoked two pork shoulders, with napping in between to day taking off for recoup tonight.

Will workout the remainder of the week, every day.
Attempt the to follow this instead of too many off days. (two) > then work out five is my goal, unless I feel like I got ran over and spit out with no appetite. That is what I feel like right now. Had a cheat meal, first in a month. Ate a whole BATCH of popovers! with maple syrup.
Thought hey, fuck it cant be Goldilocks every damn day_ Tomorrow back to the stack and pretty strict diet, hitting it hard again, to start off the day.

Thanks again, wish me no injuries...