View Full Version : Hard gainer
Orthodox
03-12-15, 1:52 pm
This was and will always be me. When I started out in this quest, I was under 9 stone, at present i boader 20. Its been a long, long road. A long road of false feeding. You never gt use to eating because just as your about to, you grow, hence you now needcto add even more food. Anyways, i had no idea what I was going to have to do, to get to my present size. All I knew was I wanna be bigger. I'm tired of seeing my ribs! Then ionically, when I'm leaning out, thats exactly what I wanna see.
Looking back on my earlier days, i can see that i was just chasing shadows, i was just going round for much of my time, in circles. With my diet I mean. I EAT TO CLEAN!!!
In order for a stone cutter to begin a sculpture, he needs a big enough slab of stone to begin with. Same with a bodybuilder, who really is a stone cutter. Before he can begin to cut, seek definition, focus on conditioning etc, he needs to first bulk, to be able to do these things. Many beginners make this s mistake and try to live as a pro or long time vet. When you first start out, this, 'season on and off' is pointless. The only thing you should be concerned with is putting on shere core mass. Eating clean is for one entering the competion stage like a pro who is doing maybe 5-6 shows, spread out throughout the year. They can't afford to lose that much conditioning etc. But for a hard gainner he must eat anything he can see or smell, otherwise how else will he ever step on stage to even reveal what he has built up. GET THOSE CALORIES IN. Wet, dry, clean, dirty...
Mark my words you will grow beyond your wildest dreams, I know cause I've done it. You cant cut and chisel away at something that's not even there. Mass and size= Calories over cleaness
This was and will always be me. When I started out in this quest, I was under 9 stone, at present i boader 20. Its been a long, long road. A long road of false feeding. You never gt use to eating because just as your about to, you grow, hence you now needcto add even more food. Anyways, i had no idea what I was going to have to do, to get to my present size. All I knew was I wanna be bigger. I'm tired of seeing my ribs! Then ionically, when I'm leaning out, thats exactly what I wanna see.
Looking back on my earlier days, i can see that i was just chasing shadows, i was just going round for much of my time, in circles. With my diet I mean. I EAT TO CLEAN!!!
In order for a stone cutter to begin a sculpture, he needs a big enough slab of stone to begin with. Same with a bodybuilder, who really is a stone cutter. Before he can begin to cut, seek definition, focus on conditioning etc, he needs to first bulk, to be able to do these things. Many beginners make this s mistake and try to live as a pro or long time vet. When you first start out, this, 'season on and off' is pointless. The only thing you should be concerned with is putting on shere core mass. Eating clean is for one entering the competion stage like a pro who is doing maybe 5-6 shows, spread out throughout the year. They can't afford to lose that much conditioning etc. But for a hard gainner he must eat anything he can see or smell, otherwise how else will he ever step on stage to even reveal what he has built up. GET THOSE CALORIES IN. Wet, dry, clean, dirty...
Mark my words you will grow beyond your wildest dreams, I know cause I've done it. You cant cut and chisel away at something that's not even there. Mass and size= Calories over cleaness
I honestly have to say that I do not agree with your statement.
Orthodox
03-14-15, 12:35 pm
I honestly have to say that I do not agree with your statement.
Agree with what my friend? Speak, I always value ur comments
Agree with what my friend? Speak, I always value ur comments
"Calories over cleaness" is the wrong approach. I never would recommend this to any aspiring bodybuilder. No matter how fast his metabolism might be.
You have to make sure reaching the required macro nutrient amount of bio available protein and essential fats to provide the raw materials necessary for protein synthesis ergo muscle building.
If your statement was accurate, one could drink melted butter exclusively and grow muscle.
What I would recommend is:
Get your 5-6 daily clean meals and ADD whatever you can fit in afterwards. Never substitute clean with junk food
I agree with Rex, I can go to the nearest Mexican food joint and get 4 burritos for the day... probably around 4500+ calories, and tomorrow guess where its all going to go, right in your gut and the rest in the toilet. ;)
Sure, you will bulk up, but probably not the way you want to.
Ya the burritos are far out there but just using them as an example
Orthodox
03-20-15, 3:01 pm
If you are doing your cardio as you should be, say 2 hrs a day and your training hardcore like most claim they do, say, 2-4 hrs which I do, then you ain't putting no bodyfat on guys, men of science, what are you on about? If your say 300 pounds like myself, what's more important, clean food or dense calories? I would lose weight if I eat clean. I need calories, dense calories. When your training truly harcore, Your body dose nt no the difference between clean or junk, it just needs fuel. So we then manipulate what it is to use.
If you are doing your cardio as you should be, say 2 hrs a day and your training hardcore like most claim they do, say, 2-4 hrs which I do, then you ain't putting no bodyfat on guys, men of science, what are you on about? If your say 300 pounds like myself, what's more important, clean food or dense calories? I would lose weight if I eat clean. I need calories, dense calories. When your training truly harcore, Your body dose nt no the difference between clean or junk, it just needs fuel. So we then manipulate what it is to use.
So, going by your statement above you are 300lbs of pure muscle with no bodyfat. Correct?
Orthodox
03-22-15, 7:15 am
So, going by your statement above you are 300lbs of pure muscle with no bodyfat. Correct?
I dnt compete my friend. So naturally body fat is not as much an issue for me as it would be for say, you who dose. You need your body fat levels to be low as your goal is to reveal separation of muscle groups etc. My goal has always been to just put on slabs of muscle period. As I originally posted, this has been my quest and journey as a hardgainer. My weight always boarders 300 lbs with a bodyfat level around 15-20% but what dose that mean.bi could be 300 lbs andblk like shit. I do my 2 hrs of cardio a day out of respect to my body and the nutrients I am consuming. I train 2-4 hrs a day because I love to workout. I'm not in this for some $5 dollar trophy.
Cellardweller
03-22-15, 4:20 pm
Being 300lbs, if you are at the higher end of that 15-20% BF, that would mean you're carrying around 60lbs of fat. You would be completely shreaded at 240lbs. Eating clean you could maintain that 240lbs of raw muscle and cut down a whole bunch. This is the reality of it. Pick up a 60lb dumbell and ask yourself if you want to carry that around 24/7. Take it for a mile run and see how it goes. I can say all this because I was sitting at 296lbs and about 18% BF. No more for me. I went down to 283 then fell off and am now 286lbs. Sure I'm big and I can bench over 400lbs, but I want to look like I belong in the gym and not at a buffet. As for being a hardgainer I'm sure the same would apply. You want to add muscle and look like you work out. Eat clean, complex carbs and not simple sugars and greasy fats. Eat sloppy, be sloppy. No more for me.
Orthodox
03-22-15, 5:48 pm
Being 300lbs, if you are at the higher end of that 15-20% BF, that would mean you're carrying around 60lbs of fat. You would be completely shreaded at 240lbs. Eating clean you could maintain that 240lbs of raw muscle and cut down a whole bunch. This is the reality of it. Pick up a 60lb dumbell and ask yourself if you want to carry that around 24/7. Take it for a mile run and see how it goes. I can say all this because I was sitting at 296lbs and about 18% BF. No more for me. I went down to 283 then fell off and am now 286lbs. Sure I'm big and I can bench over 400lbs, but I want to look like I belong in the gym and not at a buffet. As for being a hardgainer I'm sure the same would apply. You want to add muscle and look like you work out. Eat clean, complex carbs and not simple sugars and greasy fats. Eat sloppy, be sloppy. No more for me.
My friend u r nt wrong.. Iam not disagreeing with u. All I'm saying is for the young hardgainer who really struggles to put on weight is, they've gotta get those calories in. It's great that they plan, cook pack all there meals, eat clean etc, but their probably not gonna put on muscle that quick they gotta get dense calories in bro. Eating clean is not enough. It is also unrealistic to get that kind of calorie amount from just dry food. You ever eaten 6000 calories a day in dry food? This will tempt then to go for sups, which for me is not something I would ever recommend a young guy to do. He will bankrupt himself before his even Started. I do not won't kids aspiring to become a bodybuilder, being enslaved by this sup world. I want them to fall back in love with solid food.
Who cares what I look like. my body beyond impressive but you would never see it. O lift for me aand my God. I don't need to look like I belong in a gymt. I am a gym. I am bodybuilding. 20 Yr's, all my youth in this game. Ive achieved my goals bro. I don't desire anything else from this game. In at a stage where I wanna give back. Bro, listen I've been in this game for over 20 Yr's. I own a gym and I'm just thinking about those kids who train there. The questions they ask. I don't won't them being mislead.
My friend u r nt wrong.. Iam not disagreeing with u. All I'm saying is for the young hardgainer who really struggles to put on weight is, they've gotta get those calories in. It's great that they plan, cook pack all there meals, eat clean etc, but their probably not gonna put on muscle that quick they gotta get dense calories in bro. Eating clean is not enough. It is also unrealistic to get that kind of calorie amount from just dry food. You ever eaten 6000 calories a day in dry food? This will tempt then to go for sups, which for me is not something I would ever recommend a young guy to do. He will bankrupt himself before his even Started. I do not won't kids aspiring to become a bodybuilder, being enslaved by this sup world. I want them to fall back in love with solid food.
Who cares what I look like. my body beyond impressive but you would never see it. O lift for me aand my God. I don't need to look like I belong in a gymt. I am a gym. I am bodybuilding. 20 Yr's, all my youth in this game. Ive achieved my goals bro. I don't desire anything else from this game. In at a stage where I wanna give back. Bro, listen I've been in this game for over 20 Yr's. I own a gym and I'm just thinking about those kids who train there. The questions they ask. I don't won't them being mislead.
I think I see Orthodox's point. This is advice I would give and have given young lifters who are just starting out or who've been spinning their wheels because they are terrified of gaining bodyfat. Granted, Rex and Cell are correct about the bodyfat situation but for someone who was like I was in the beginning, skinny to the point where people used to ask me to let them count my ribs, (no joke) this is sound advice. After a certain point, I had to clean up my diet to be able to get better performance out of my engine but in the beginning, all calories were good calories.
I think this would be a great topic for the Roundtable thread.
Cellardweller
03-23-15, 7:34 am
Maybe for hard gainers, but just seems like a built-in excuse to eat shit. Plus, you don't want to develop habits. And at what point do you stop?
Aggression
03-23-15, 9:52 am
There is no such thing as a hardgainers, only under-eaters.
This comes from someone who labeled himself as a hard gainer for years. That was until I was figuratively smacked upside the head and started eating 'right'.
ganderson
03-23-15, 10:16 am
I understand and respect the calories, body fat, etc. discussion. However something that stood out to me in this thread so far was….
Who has 2 hours to do cardio and 2-4 hours to train, per day? So 4-6 hours a day total spent in the gym? That's awesome you love the gym, and love to train, as do I. It just seems a bit unrealistic to me.
rainman
03-23-15, 12:59 pm
I've never really got where this 300lb milestone has appeared from? It seems to be the new benchmark weight to get to where, in actual fact, very few people can pull this of and look anywhere near decent. I'm totally with Cellardweller and his Journey - starting at an out of shape 300 and coming down whilst getting stronger - but to go the other way by packing in shit calories just seems wrong and detrimental from a bodybuilding perspective. I appreciate that the advancements that go alongside the training and nutrition side of bodybuilding can enable guys to pack on some serious size, but 300lb still seems like an unrealistic goal for most people.
I understand and respect the calories, body fat, etc. discussion. However something that stood out to me in this thread so far was….
Who has 2 hours to do cardio and 2-4 hours to train, per day? So 4-6 hours a day total spent in the gym? That's awesome you love the gym, and love to train, as do I. It just seems a bit unrealistic to me.
This is another thing. If you need to do two hours of cardio a day, then surely there is too much of a calorific surplus in your diet in the first place?
Orthodox
03-23-15, 6:11 pm
I understand and respect the calories, body fat, etc. discussion. However something that stood out to me in this thread so far was….
Who has 2 hours to do cardio and 2-4 hours to train, per day? So 4-6 hours a day total spent in the gym? That's awesome you love the gym, and love to train, as do I. It just seems a bit unrealistic to me.
Friend I value your participation but your words shock me. Are you telling me that you thinking is unrealistic to do 2 hrs of cardio and 2-4 hrs away of weights. I tell you who has time l. Any serious bodybuilder preparing for a show. Well. He will be if he plains to win.
My friend I own a gym. I live on top ofvthis gym. I have no love ones to go up stairs for, so I dwell with my weights l, they have always been my lover. You sound like a man who doubts and I am sorry for that because such qualities are a hinderence in this sport. In life. Anythings is possible bro, and the 6,7, or 10,000 calories aday willl also help. Try it this routine, for a day, then you will have lived a day in the life of a real body builder, not just someone who lifts weights.
Journey well
ganderson
03-23-15, 8:42 pm
Friend I value your participation but your words shock me. Are you telling me that you thinking is unrealistic to do 2 hrs of cardio and 2-4 hrs away of weights. I tell you who has time l. Any serious bodybuilder preparing for a show. Well. He will be if he plains to win.
My friend I own a gym. I live on top ofvthis gym. I have no love ones to go up stairs for, so I dwell with my weights l, they have always been my lover. You sound like a man who doubts and I am sorry for that because such qualities are a hinderence in this sport. In life. Anythings is possible bro, and the 6,7, or 10,000 calories aday willl also help. Try it this routine, for a day, then you will have lived a day in the life of a real body builder, not just someone who lifts weights.
Journey well
Man, thats awesome you own a gym, and thats a great business to be in. But what about the 99% of us who love to train and do not own a gym? What about the common working man who wakes up at 6 am and gets home after 6 pm every day?
Saying I am unable to workout 4-6 hours a day, is not being a "man of doubt", its being realistic. However, I still train every night, I get my food in, and I don't make any excuses. Having to work around different circumstances is a part of life. But, I'm sure like many of us on here, we would love you be able to devote every day, all day to the gym.
Orthodox
03-23-15, 9:40 pm
Man, thats awesome you own a gym, and thats a great business to be in. But what about the 99% of us who love to train and do not own a gym? What about the common working man who wakes up at 6 am and gets home after 6 pm every day?
Saying I am unable to workout 4-6 hours a day, is not being a "man of doubt", its being realistic. However, I still train every night, I get my food in, and I don't make any excuses. Having to work around different circumstances is a part of life. But, I'm sure like many of us on here, we would love you be able to devote every day, all day to the gym.
bro. This is real life bodybuilding in the trenches. We do what we gotta do to to get job done. I haven't always owned a gym. I Have been this guy you spk of for many years. I spent the first 5 years of my bodybuilding life eating my meals cold, as I worked an apprenticeship mortar mixing for a gang of 12 bricklayers.
Many people wear the animalpak t-shirt but how many really know it's meanin? Animal means s to do what ever you have to Do to survive survive. When under pressure, this animal instinct will kick on. This is what we rep here at animalpak. There cannot be even a hint of weakness amongst us other wise the pack will fall. Bro, you are one, you are developing your one body, forget the 99. check out my boys, Machines, G diesel, P, wrath articles. These are guys who have and still are, living with this animal instinct. There's no such thing as unrealistic. Only to a mind that cannot comprehend.
I have Done it!
ganderson
03-23-15, 10:55 pm
bro. This is real life bodybuilding in the trenches. We do what we gotta do to to get job done. I haven't always owned a gym. I Have been this guy you spk of for many years. I spent the first 5 years of my bodybuilding life eating my meals cold, as I worked an apprenticeship mortar mixing for a gang of 12 bricklayers.
Many people wear the animalpak t-shirt but how many really know it's meanin? Animal means s to do what ever you have to Do to survive survive. When under pressure, this animal instinct will kick on. This is what we rep here at animalpak. There cannot be even a hint of weakness amongst us other wise the pack will fall. Bro, you are one, you are developing your one body, forget the 99. check out my boys, Machines, G diesel, P, wrath articles. These are guys who have and still are, living with this animal instinct. There's no such thing as unrealistic. Only to a mind that cannot comprehend.
I have Done it!
Dude, I understand completely what you're saying, and I happen to agree with some of it. I didn't say my work hours was an excuse. Just because I don't spent 4-6 hours in the gym per day means I don't know what Animal or training, etc. is about? Thats a brash statement to make to someone, without knowing anything about them.
Everyone has their own way of doing things, everyone has their recipe for success, and everyone deals with life differently. Thats the beauty of the world, is that you can carve your own path with dedication and hard work, if given the opportunity. You have your way of doing things, and I have mine. Neither is wrong, nor neither is right. We do things in our own way. I'm not judging you by what you do, all I was saying is that spending 4-6 hours in the gym everyday is a lot for SOME PEOPLE, and yes "unrealistic". I spend an hour to an hour and a half in the gym each night...does that make it wrong because its not 4-6 hours? No, but thats how I do things, and that what works for me. Time spent in the gym has nothing to do with the intensity you bring to the gym. You can be extremely efficient with a short amount of time.
Aside from all of this, it seems like you have a solid formula that works for you, so keep it up man...and good luck to you!
Orthodox
03-24-15, 6:02 am
Dude, I understand completely what you're saying, and I happen to agree with some of it. I didn't say my work hours was an excuse. Just because I don't spent 4-6 hours in the gym per day means I don't know what Animal or training, etc. is about? Thats a brash statement to make to someone, without knowing anything about them.
Everyone has their own way of doing things, everyone has their recipe for success, and everyone deals with life differently. Thats the beauty of the world, is that you can carve your own path with dedication and hard work, if given the opportunity. You have your way of doing things, and I have mine. Neither is wrong, nor neither is right. We do things in our own way. I'm not judging you by what you do, all I was saying is that spending 4-6 hours in the gym everyday is a lot for SOME PEOPLE, and yes "unrealistic". I spend an hour to an hour and a half in the gym each night...does that make it wrong because its not 4-6 hours? No, but thats how I do things, and that what works for me. Time spent in the gym has nothing to do with the intensity you bring to the gym. You can be extremely efficient with a short amount of time.
Aside from all of this, it seems like you have a solid formula that works for you, so keep it up man...and good luck to you!
I hear the voice of my boy G diesel, right now, as clearly as I do, my inner voice, I have harshly judged you. Forgive me my friend.
Every man has their own way with God. Gd luck on your travels,
Journey well