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View Full Version : The FORVM Roundtable: Talk Your Shit



G Diesel
03-20-15, 10:15 am
I heard the call for a place to discuss all manners of subjects as they relate to our lifestyle in an open and frank manner.

I think as long as we play within the rules, corporate won't mind me pushing the envelope with a new thread.

So this is your chance, this is the place. Ask questions... Give opinions... Speak your mind.

Peace, G

Swolepez
03-20-15, 10:20 am
Awesome! Thanks G! Let's get some discussions started!

John Grey
03-20-15, 10:31 am
I heard the call for a place to discuss all manners of subjects as they relate to our lifestyle in an open and frank manner.

I think as long as we play within the rules, corporate won't mind me pushing the envelope with a new thread.

So this is your chance, this is the place. Ask questions... Give opinions... Speak your mind.

Peace, G

Look at you G! Coming through in the clutch! Good stuff right here.

John Grey
03-20-15, 10:33 am
Awesome! Thanks G! Let's get some discussions started!

Thanks to you too Swole, you got this ball rolling!!

CammaRHINO
03-20-15, 10:42 am
Now we're talkin' G.

As always the one who keeps us grounded, and reminds us we are Men and should act like it.

Lookin forward to this

ganderson
03-20-15, 10:59 am
Thanks for getting this started G and Swolepez. Looking forward to see what types of discussions this will bring...

Machine
03-20-15, 10:59 am
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE

naturalguy
03-20-15, 11:20 am
and Machine drops the hammer early



well said

G Diesel
03-20-15, 11:24 am
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE

I feel like there might be more time spent on the pictures of food than the consumption of actual food. Strange turn caused by social media.

Another unique point is that I've noticed that the real holier-than-thou eaters of the world seem to not be all that impressive physique-wise. And way too uptight to live.

And then all of the really jacked dudes I know LOVE food and eat some bullshit here and there on a regular basis. Interesting.

Peace, G

CammaRHINO
03-20-15, 11:38 am
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE



so much truth in that short bit my friend. What ever happened to training just because you like to. Or trying to be better than you were before because you want to impress yourself with your capabilities. Since when did a high "like" count take rank over that feeling you get when you notice something you didn't before in the mirror staring back at you. Feeling a sense of gratification and satisfaction looking at what you've improved on is less important than opinion of someone you don't even know ten states away who's smaller than you anyway?

Fuck that. Again, Fuck That.

Since when did the members of the iron culture become so insecure that we even give a shit if any other person "likes" us. If you have any mental toughness at all the first thing you should know is that your own opinion of yourself reigns supreme and should drive your decisions more than any other in your life. Your lifts numbers are shit if you're not even strong enough in your own mind to know this

Lets keep at least one thing in this world pure huh bros?

J-Dawg
03-20-15, 1:11 pm
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE

Great post.


This is just to branch off on that. What you learn along the way is that not everyone's words carry the same weight. Some do progress and overcome obstacles while many others spin their wheels, claiming "beastmode" yet don't even realize that progress has stopped. Meanwhile the person who is training the hardest is oftentimes the quietest because they are so focused on getting the job done versus looking for their nuts to get powdered. We're probably all guilty of some of this at various levels but we need to keep focused on reaching our goals and then continuing to push our goals out further and further so that continued progress is made (in life and with athletic endeavors).

It all starts with laying the foundation at home and in the community--teach our kids the right way so that later in life they make better choices. We need to be good role models to our youth so that it's less focus on social media "beastmode" and more on hard work, goal setting and the satisfaction of achievement.

J-Dawg
03-20-15, 1:21 pm
I feel like there might be more time spent on the pictures of food than the consumption of actual food. Strange turn caused by social media.

Another unique point is that I've noticed that the real holier-than-thou eaters of the world seem to not be all that impressive physique-wise. And way too uptight to live.

And then all of the really jacked dudes I know LOVE food and eat some bullshit here and there on a regular basis. Interesting.

Peace, G

It's a social media world and we're just trying to figure out how to exist in it, lol.

smoothballer
03-20-15, 1:46 pm
It's a social media world and we're just trying to figure out how to exist in it, lol.

Speaking from the guy who just popped his Instagram cherry recently....

Firefist
03-20-15, 2:40 pm
It's a social media world and we're just trying to figure out how to exist in it, lol.

It's the Era of the Like, Retweet and Selfie.


This thread is gonna be a mainstay in my forum visits.

J-Dawg
03-20-15, 3:32 pm
Speaking from the guy who just popped his Instagram cherry recently....

Haha, guilty as charged.

MELTDOWN
03-20-15, 4:07 pm
It's a social media world and we're just trying to figure out how to exist in it, lol.

Understood and having to adapt myself with a new Android phone ( forced by cell company of course). But can all the phones not be left in the car or locked in the locker for 1-2 hours?

Last 7 months, I've switched gyms ( not fitness boxes) twice, due the tech dilemma. Machines and racks clogged up with all the "selfies" , almost non stop. And way too much chit chat and BS time.
Heck, even one guy was trying to snap a "selfie" while squatting.... c'mon man.

And to be fair, not all are the younger generation.
Tried to channel that aggravation to fuel my training, but ended up more pissed that driven.
Worst part was, owner & manager watching from the desk at the door and haven't said a word yet.... at both places.

To the point that this ole boy is trading an old motorcycle for my neighbors plates, bench and rack system he doesn't use.
Corner of the basement will be put to good use and that way it's ALL on me and focus can be clear and streamlined.

Thanks for the new platform and Carry On !!!

Machine
03-20-15, 4:14 pm
I appreciate having a place to vent and read ideas from people I respect - can't put a high enough price on that.

G's comment resonates with me because I know many (and also happen to be one of them) guys who can "play" with the diet and make things move without a lot of fanfare. Thereís a hundred reasons for that and most just donít apply to most people. I just want people to do what THEY say they want to do - not what I want them to do. The trouble is not the man who doesn't know...the trouble lies with the man who doesn't know that he doesn't know, but yet acts like the "Stay Thirsty My Friends" guy. The most successful athletes I know are always FINE:

Fucked-up
Insecure
Neurotic
Emotionally unstable

They don't tend to be well adjusted; of course, I'm using generalizations here - but these successful athletes tend to be constantly tearing themselves apart because they know the window is closing fast. It's difficult to have the mindset of Genghis Khan and be well adjusted. Now, what they show at appearances and on social media is another fucking story...total fantasy with very few exceptions. People have so much more than they know in the tank - if they are only willing to put the mask down for a few minutes. Iím trying to put my arm around a large group of people and drag them in here with us. Sometimes the only way to do that is to throw cold water in their faces. And some of you donít realize that youíre in that group I just mentioned on one level or another. Iím not gonna rub talcum powder on your balls for you and tell everything you want to hear.

In the generic, you can be a Thomas Jefferson, a well-educated, well adjusted, socially polished, successful chapÖor you can be Hunter S. Thompson, a fucking blindingly brilliant sociopath. I donít run into many TJsÖbut I meet many, many HSTs out there Ė and Iíll take those every day of the week because their crazy every day, I can meet them there. I just donít have much tolerance for people who donít even know themselves, much less what it takes to achieve THEIR stated goals and ambitions.

MACHINE

Swolepez
03-20-15, 7:01 pm
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE

I totally agree with you...I do think so many people are led now by social media...they see their favorite bodybuilder post a pic of a "epic" cheat meal so then they want to post a pic too even if they didn't earn that fuckin meal in the first place....

OR they decide that "well if I eat at subway or chipotle than its still healthy right?" Even though they don't know what the hell went in to making that meal...

^^^ although I must admit that I have been this person before...too lazy to make my chx so I get subway or chipotle instead but then realize: I was too lazy to defrost and cook my chx but yet I wasn't too lazy to get in my car, drive a couple of blocks, spend my hard earn money on some food that I don't know fully how it was prepared when I have chx already at home waiting to be defrosted...kinda fucked up if you think about it...

But anyways, just wanted to say I agree with post but also admit that I am not blameless when it comes to these things...

GunRock
03-20-15, 7:22 pm
It's a social media world and we're just trying to figure out how to exist in it, lol.

I feel like most of the guys on here (this thread in particular) are like organic farmers who see people flock to eat the grocery store crap or fast food garbage rather than coming to pick up food that's actually good for them.

I think social media has just magnified what was already pervasive in society. Remember that Arnold and Jane Fonda's aerobics coexisted. You had Larry Scott, Marvin Eder and the like at the same time that you had hucksters selling those vibration weight loss belts. We just get to see everybody's b.s. from all four corners of the globe plus space now.

This may sound callous but I actually don't mind that the b.s. is out there. Truth seekers will always find the truth because they're willing to dig past the flash to the sweat soaked reality that everyone else walks a wide path around.

That's what makes this such a brotherhood. When I see somebody who's neck and traps scream out the truth about how they got their physique, I feel the kinship that Dave Draper writes about.

One last thing before I go. It relates to what I said about how we should approach the b.s. prevalent in society.

One of my lifetime goals is to enter a Planet Fitness and immediately be told that I couldn't train there because I would intimidate the other patrons. I'm always polite to people and I don't dress like a moron, but from what I've been told, they only let a certain under-trained looking sort of person in there. Once you look like what you're doing might actually be building significant muscle you get shown the door.

Another goal is to be drug tested at a USAPL meet. They only test a certain percentage of the competitors so that would be a cool thing to know that I've reached a certain level with my physique and poundages.

Swolepez
03-20-15, 7:25 pm
so much truth in that short bit my friend. What ever happened to training just because you like to. Or trying to be better than you were before because you want to impress yourself with your capabilities. Since when did a high "like" count take rank over that feeling you get when you notice something you didn't before in the mirror staring back at you. Feeling a sense of gratification and satisfaction looking at what you've improved on is less important than opinion of someone you don't even know ten states away who's smaller than you anyway?

Fuck that. Again, Fuck That.

Since when did the members of the iron culture become so insecure that we even give a shit if any other person "likes" us. If you have any mental toughness at all the first thing you should know is that your own opinion of yourself reigns supreme and should drive your decisions more than any other in your life. Your lifts numbers are shit if you're not even strong enough in your own mind to know this

Lets keep at least one thing in this world pure huh bros?

I hate that it's like this to but it seems like (and correct me if I'm mistaken) that this what gets people sponsorships...I remember watching a video on Layne Norton where he stated that most companies don't care about how many competitions you participate in or if you even compete at all...they just want somebody who has a huge following on social media to promote their product to a larger consumer base...which i understand bc supplements companies are still a business but I wish there were more companies like Animal...where you can feel like your a part of the company without even being an athlete for them or sponsored....bc you are a part of something bigger, you are part of a family

Which brings me to my second point: a lot of people post pics on media hoping to get sponsered which is sad to me...like you said, a lot of people don't lift anymore bc the enjoy it, or bc they have the passion...they are not really in it looking to be a better person that yesterday...they lift so they can say they are "sponsered" or a "rep" for a company which is sad..I actually have friends who talk about being sponsered but have never even talked about doing a comp before in order to see what they are truly capable of.. .it's like its turn into a social media popularity contest instead of people who have a passion for making themselves and others better each and every day...so many people lift for sponsorships rather than for passion of the game...I even see it on the Universal & Animal Instagram, "hey U-Rep, you guys should sponsor me!", Like they have no shame for begging to be sponsored...I liked U-Reps answer to this not to long ago when somebody asked him about sponsorship. It was something to the effect of: we don't usually sponsor people who just come and ask us, we find the type of person we like and we go after them. To me it was like a nicer way to say, "stop sucking up to us and begging and instead put your head down and put in the work and that will give you a better chance one day. "

But I belive these are some big reasons why social media has become a issue in the weight lifting world..

Machine
03-20-15, 8:26 pm
I wouldn't pay some of these people to be a poster-boy for a prophylactic company!

I am a fool. But I can take refuge in the knowledge that I'm a fool who can weigh 335 at under 20% body-fat. I've learned a great deal from years of doing it myself and there wasn't all of this information floating around those days. It was more of an apprenticeship situation, and I've never been much of a "joiner." When I looked across the gym at the guys I'd be competing against there were no discussion boards and selfies...an athlete had to carve out space. If you got a "following" it was because many times people would go train where you trained, that was a draw for gyms, they liked to have a stable of large mammals...they still do. But let me tell you; the "truth" of your training was ACTUALLY witnessed by people in the flesh.

I was never a guy who had polish, or could pose, or had good lines, symmetry, etc. But I could move weight and I could weigh whatever I wanted to. That was what I had going for me so I worked to those strengths - period. Athletes wanted to know how I did it; you wouldn't believe the offers I received. People wanted to see that, they always will, because very, very, very few people can actually pull that off.

Truth be told, I'd rather have nothing than bring a package undeserving of the stage - it took too long for me to accept that, how's that for fucking honesty? I've paid a very high price for my involvement in this game, a very high price, no complaints and no excuses.

As I said I'm a fool, like many people see Manny Ramirez as a fool, but Manny can hit a baseball 450' and I can weigh 335 lbs.

...and you want to see both I think.

MACHINE

GunRock
03-21-15, 7:00 am
Many successful powerlifters today come from a bodybuilding background and many successful bodybuilder's have some sort of heavy powerlifting style training in their rear view. What's you guys takes on switching styles for a prolonged period? I know some powerlifters put volume training in the beginning of a training cycle and some bodybuilders lift heavy on a regular basis. I mean actually live life like an athlete from a different strength sport for six months to a year to see what that does for your physique.
I am toying with the idea for next year since I'm taking a year Sabbath from powerlifting. I'm still going to train obviously but I think I need to work on my foundation for a while.
Thoughts?

HIGA MONSTER
03-21-15, 9:48 am
Speaking from the guy who just popped his Instagram cherry recently....
Shots fired...

HIGA MONSTER
03-21-15, 9:54 am
I wouldn't pay some of these people to be a poster-boy for a prophylactic company!

I am a fool. But I can take refuge in the knowledge that I'm a fool who can weigh 335 at under 20% body-fat. I've learned a great deal from years of doing it myself and there wasn't all of this information floating around those days. It was more of an apprenticeship situation, and I've never been much of a "joiner." When I looked across the gym at the guys I'd be competing against there were no discussion boards and selfies...an athlete had to carve out space. If you got a "following" it was because many times people would go train where you trained, that was a draw for gyms, they liked to have a stable of large mammals...they still do. But let me tell you; the "truth" of your training was ACTUALLY witnessed by people in the flesh.

I was never a guy who had polish, or could pose, or had good lines, symmetry, etc. But I could move weight and I could weigh whatever I wanted to. That was what I had going for me so I worked to those strengths - period. Athletes wanted to know how I did it; you wouldn't believe the offers I received. People wanted to see that, they always will, because very, very, very few people can actually pull that off.

Truth be told, I'd rather have nothing than bring a package undeserving of the stage - it took too long for me to accept that, how's that for fucking honesty? I've paid a very high price for my involvement in this game, a very high price, no complaints and no excuses.

As I said I'm a fool, like many people see Manny Ramirez as a fool, but Manny can hit a baseball 450' and I can weigh 335 lbs.

...and you want to see both I think.

MACHINE
I can read your words all fuckin day...amazing and straight to the point honest observations.

It's funny you wrote this cause I had this Junior Powerlifter come workout with me for the 1st time this past Wed.
And he came back to workout yesterday because he loves the environment we have at our gym, but also because he sees me lifting in the same gym as him.

Seeing me there lift motivates him...he doesn't get that kind of vibe at the LA Fitness he currently trains at.
So I truly believe it has an Osmosis effect on him by seeing me lift...I don't fuck around. I get in there to get my shit done, not to talk story or drag the workout forever.

When we step foot in the gym, it's time to do work and nothing else matters.
Hopefully, that passes on to others to change their Iron game too.

HIGA

Machine
03-21-15, 12:32 pm
"Seeing me there lift motivates him...he doesn't get that kind of vibe at the LA Fitness he currently trains at.
So I truly believe it has an Osmosis effect on him by seeing me lift...I don't fuck around. I get in there to get my shit done, not to talk story or drag the workout forever. When we step foot in the gym, it's time to do work and nothing else matters.
Hopefully, that passes on to others to change their Iron game too."

That's exactly what I'm talking about; thank you very much. We need to keep people on point; they're used to people lying to them...you won't get that shit around me. If you fuck up, I'm not gonna serve you up a hot biscuit and pat you on the tush.

I recommend athletes very quickly getting around some people who care enough about them to tell them the truth - now that's a friend worth having.

MACHINE

Beast145
03-21-15, 12:57 pm
+1 on the LA Fitness comment. That is where I train 90% of the time and it is so frustrating. No good vibe there. Just a bunch of "fake" housewives talking about their drama and surgeries and bunch or ego lifters who spend all their time talking and taking selfies in between sets while they hog all the machines. Not to mention all the dudes that size you up and try and mad dog you. WTF right???? We are all supposed to be like brothers and sisters in the gym. One big family united in a common goal to help each other and make ourselves better. That is why I love this forum and it's members. This is a place that humbles you in my opinion. It is one of the places where I can come learn from people with the same goal. No egos here like LA Fitness just good people who train hard and help each other out.

HIGA MONSTER
03-21-15, 12:58 pm
"Seeing me there lift motivates him...he doesn't get that kind of vibe at the LA Fitness he currently trains at.
So I truly believe it has an Osmosis effect on him by seeing me lift...I don't fuck around. I get in there to get my shit done, not to talk story or drag the workout forever. When we step foot in the gym, it's time to do work and nothing else matters.
Hopefully, that passes on to others to change their Iron game too."

That's exactly what I'm talking about; thank you very much. We need to keep people on point; they're used to people lying to them...you won't get that shit around me. If you fuck up, I'm not gonna serve you up a hot biscuit and pat you on the tush.

I recommend athletes very quickly getting around some people who care enough about them to tell them the truth - now that's a friend worth having.

MACHINE
Roger that...have a great weekend!

HIGA

MAB
03-22-15, 6:44 pm
"Seeing me there lift motivates him...he doesn't get that kind of vibe at the LA Fitness he currently trains at.
So I truly believe it has an Osmosis effect on him by seeing me lift...I don't fuck around. I get in there to get my shit done, not to talk story or drag the workout forever. When we step foot in the gym, it's time to do work and nothing else matters.
Hopefully, that passes on to others to change their Iron game too."

That's exactly what I'm talking about; thank you very much. We need to keep people on point; they're used to people lying to them...you won't get that shit around me. If you fuck up, I'm not gonna serve you up a hot biscuit and pat you on the tush.

I recommend athletes very quickly getting around some people who care enough about them to tell them the truth - now that's a friend worth having.

MACHINE


I think this is important not just from a training stand point but for life in general. Too many people take things too personally. Having people in your life that don't bs you is such an eye opener and honestly makes life easier.

Not to get all trivial, but an example would be this silver bikini I used to have. I tend to be a little flamboyant in my tastes and I loved this bikini... It fit well and reminded me of a silver coat I had as a kid. A year of owning and wearing this thing and a guy tells me it's not flattering at all and I should throw it out. I took a hard look at pics and in the mirror and realized he was being honest. I appreciated that bc all my girlfriends were feeding me spoonfuls of crap, letting me walk around in something that made me look less than stellar.

Again, trivial in the gran scheme of things, but an adequate example. The bullshit never helps. A couple hurt feelings are worth the truth bc it saves you time and makes you more self aware. Someone who is willing to tell you the hard truth is someone who wants to see you progress, grow, become better... Not hold or slow you down. But again... You've got to have guts in this day and age to call it how you see it. People are vicious.


+1 on the LA Fitness comment. That is where I train 90% of the time and it is so frustrating. No good vibe there. Just a bunch of "fake" housewives talking about their drama and surgeries and bunch or ego lifters who spend all their time talking and taking selfies in between sets while they hog all the machines. Not to mention all the dudes that size you up and try and mad dog you. WTF right???? We are all supposed to be like brothers and sisters in the gym. One big family united in a common goal to help each other and make ourselves better. That is why I love this forum and it's members. This is a place that humbles you in my opinion. It is one of the places where I can come learn from people with the same goal. No egos here like LA Fitness just good people who train hard and help each other out.


LA is currently my home gym as well. On the weekends I drive about 35 minutes to the best gym in the whole entire world. I walk into LA and my mood and motivation just plummet. I've found that early in the morning there aren't too many lifters and I can get a good session in (it's mainly cardio bunnies). Late in the evening isn't too bad, but there are a lot of dudes... a lot of middle eastern dudes with thick cologne and who don't really respect a female lifter's space. I've had lots of guys stand right in front of me... like I could literally kick their ass if I wanted. I've had guys walk so close that I've had to stop my move so I didn't hit them. It's frustrating.

Today I traveled to Power Station to train back and in the middle of my dead lifts I caught a chick staring at me... I stared back and when the length of staring got a little awkward I tried smiling and she rolled her eyes at me. I really don't get it. It's so hit or miss in the world of fitness... people are either really friendly and humble and amazing or they're just complete assholes and stuck up bitches. I dunno why but this woman staring at me really bugged me. I was wearing black leggings, gray shirt, blue chucks, and he on a hat.... I wasn't trying to attract attention, I wasn't being obnoxious. I really just don't understand how some people are so mean for no reason.

That's why I love this place so much. It's about lifting one another up, sharing knowledge, helping each other reach goals and see untapped potential. Its a true family environment and that means so much to me. I'm always grateful for the experiences I've had with Animal and the people I get to meet and bond with. It's invaluable and life altering. At least in my opinion.

knotahumanbeing
03-23-15, 1:04 am
I've only been involved in this sport for just a short time, but there are a few things that Iíve seen to be the revolving theme of this so-called ďsoap operaĒ drama. You see it everywhere and in all things competitive but never have I found larger group of people so concerned with what everyone else is doing. Why the fuck are you concerned with someone's else's training style, someone else's lift, what type of gear they used, if they hit depth, whatever it may be. People are too fucking focused on everyone else, that they limit their own potential. If for one moment, that energy you used to judge or criticize someone else for something they did and you turned it inward, imagine what things you could do with your own fucking life. Why does it fucking matter what they do anyways? If it has no direct bearing or effect on the well-being of your livelihood, your family, why do you fucking care? This isnít meant as a form of disrespect, but you have to develop a ďfuck everyone else and what they are doingĒ type mentality. It distracts you from what you should be focusing on if you donít, and all those people youíre concerned with, are passing you by. Youíre left sitting in a cesspool of regret, wasted time, because you gave a fuck about someone else. Personally, Iíve got a shit ton of stuff going on in my life, and it consumes all of my time, why in the fuck would I waste any of it worrying about someone else, who doesnít give a fuck about me and my problems?

Another thing that Iíve noticed is that a lot of people want to follow in the footsteps of others. Not just as hey I look up to you, but where they spend every moment wanting to be them, emulate their entire existence to be like someone else. Maybe that person is a stand-up, reputable person, thatís great, fan-damn-tastic, but fuck that, make your own fucking footsteps. Nothing wrong with studying those who have come before you as a guide, a source of knowledge/wisdom, but when that time comes, fulfill your own destiny. Donít follow in someone elseís. I see people spending so much time trying to look like this person, act like this person, train, eat, all this shit and they take away from who they are. The begin losing their identity and therefore lose sight of who they are and who/what they were meant to be. Fuck trying to be anyone else, be your damn self, and make your own footsteps. Make your own history, because you canít be them, you canít be a better version of someone else. You can only be a better version of YOU.

Stay Hungry
Rob

Cellardweller
03-23-15, 7:29 am
But this is the age of the internet. I don't have to think. All I have to do is go on my computer, tablet or phone (maybe bathroom mirror soon) and all the thinking is done for me.

Computers make us lazy In so many ways.

Aggression
03-23-15, 9:58 am
To me, the real 'beastmode' dudes are the ones with a similar outlook to Dorian Yates back in the day. Lurked in the shadows. Sure, there were no social media sites back then. But even staying out of publicity events, no magazine photos/interviews, etc. Today, a true 'beastmode' dude IMO is one who doesn't have a FB, an IG, or a twitter account. Every now and then, a rouge video appears from someone else who snuck in a vid/pic and posted it up. He lies in the shadows and then come game day, whether it be the stage or platform, or whatever, they dominate the world and fall back into darkness. It leaves a certain 'mystique' about them. A raw unknown. He leaves you guessing, wondering.

J-Dawg
03-23-15, 11:16 am
To me, the real 'beastmode' dudes are the ones with a similar outlook to Dorian Yates back in the day. Lurked in the shadows. Sure, there were no social media sites back then. But even staying out of publicity events, no magazine photos/interviews, etc. Today, a true 'beastmode' dude IMO is one who doesn't have a FB, an IG, or a twitter account. Every now and then, a rouge video appears from someone else who snuck in a vid/pic and posted it up. He lies in the shadows and then come game day, whether it be the stage or platform, or whatever, they dominate the world and fall back into darkness. It leaves a certain 'mystique' about them. A raw unknown. He leaves you guessing, wondering.

I think it would be cool if someone had an entire social media platform set up like the way "The Journey" was done with Wrath. Does anyone nowadays have the patience or wherewithal to do something like that?

G Diesel
03-23-15, 12:23 pm
Many successful powerlifters today come from a bodybuilding background and many successful bodybuilder's have some sort of heavy powerlifting style training in their rear view. What's you guys takes on switching styles for a prolonged period? I know some powerlifters put volume training in the beginning of a training cycle and some bodybuilders lift heavy on a regular basis. I mean actually live life like an athlete from a different strength sport for six months to a year to see what that does for your physique.
I am toying with the idea for next year since I'm taking a year Sabbath from powerlifting. I'm still going to train obviously but I think I need to work on my foundation for a while.
Thoughts?

I've always thought that one without the other is empty. "Powerbuilding" in some capacity should be the goal--be as strong as you look, look as strong as you are. After all, it is all just lifting weights. I think we get too caught up on labels.


To me, the real 'beastmode' dudes are the ones with a similar outlook to Dorian Yates back in the day. Lurked in the shadows. Sure, there were no social media sites back then. But even staying out of publicity events, no magazine photos/interviews, etc. Today, a true 'beastmode' dude IMO is one who doesn't have a FB, an IG, or a twitter account. Every now and then, a rouge video appears from someone else who snuck in a vid/pic and posted it up. He lies in the shadows and then come game day, whether it be the stage or platform, or whatever, they dominate the world and fall back into darkness. It leaves a certain 'mystique' about them. A raw unknown. He leaves you guessing, wondering.

Very true man. I dig that too.

Peace, G

Altered Beast
03-23-15, 12:33 pm
To me, the real 'beastmode' dudes are the ones with a similar outlook to Dorian Yates back in the day. Lurked in the shadows. Sure, there were no social media sites back then. But even staying out of publicity events, no magazine photos/interviews, etc. Today, a true 'beastmode' dude IMO is one who doesn't have a FB, an IG, or a twitter account. Every now and then, a rouge video appears from someone else who snuck in a vid/pic and posted it up. He lies in the shadows and then come game day, whether it be the stage or platform, or whatever, they dominate the world and fall back into darkness. It leaves a certain 'mystique' about them. A raw unknown. He leaves you guessing, wondering.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! Glad to have you back around these parts.

smoothballer
03-23-15, 12:56 pm
I've always thought that one without the other is empty. "Powerbuilding" in some capacity should be the goal--be as strong as you look, look as strong as you are. After all, it is all just lifting weights. I think we get too caught up on labels.

Peace, G

Dan Green made a good point at those Animal sessions last year at the Arnold. Powerlifters get big to get strong and Bodybuilders get strong to get big.

So either way you want to be big and strong.

Altered Beast
03-23-15, 12:59 pm
I've got an observation. Way too many "cheat meal" bandits out there today. If people are honest with themselves, I mean independent of what they post on bullshit social media, too many of you are taking it way, way too easy on yourselves.

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All a person needs to do in the "iron culture" these days is be a little better off than the next man and all of a sudden he is king nothing.

Weight training, as "hardcore" as it is, provides an easy grotto of subsistence for people to float in, while claiming "beastmode." I'm talking about exposing oneself to mental strain, not constantly posting pictures of fucking sushi "cheat meals."

Pick a simulated bodybuilding contest date and get in shape for fuck sakes...too many motherfuckers look exactly the same as they did a year ago..2 years ago...or 2 years from now. There is nothing radically transformative about that stance.

If it don't apply...let it fly. But trust me...on some level, it fucking applies...or you have the mindset of the conquered.

MACHINE

To piggy back off of this, I've noticed another new trend. These same "Beastmode" selfie kings and queens are the same ones spending 50-75% of their gym time doing mobility work or warming up. Do I think Mobility and warming up is important? Absolutely, but it should take 5-10 minutes not 45-60!

I see a guy regularly at my gym that goes to the warm up room to stretch, than goes outside to perform mobility walking/running drills than gets under the bar and Squats the bar for like 10 Sets before even moving up in weight. He once approached me and asked: "Hey bro! I've seem to have hit a plateau and cannot get any stronger! What should I do?" I simply said, "Stop dicking around with your warm ups, you're spending almost your entire gym time warming up and not lifting. What do you honestly expect?" He looked at me as if I shot his dog. Seems he's more interested in a cardio style workout? I don't know. All I do know is I'm seeing more and more people at the gym doing all kinds of crazy warm up drills and lifting circuits, than wonder why there barbell strength is in decline. If they ever get to it!

Is Crossfit to blame? In all honesty no, because at least they brought the issue to public knowledge. But does a person really need anywhere from 30-60 minutes to stretch, roll, and perform warm up agility drills? I don't think so.....and by the way you're hogging the warm up room and most likely a Squat Rack, Bench or Deadlift platform. Just sayin....

*Don't even get me started on the machine kings and queens that only use machines for resistance training and look the same every year. That's another rant....

Altered Beast
03-23-15, 1:00 pm
Dan Green made a good point at those Animal sessions last year at the Arnold. Powerlifters get big to get strong and Bodybuilders get strong to get big.

So either way you want to be big and strong.

I really like this! Solid point.

N. Motta
03-23-15, 3:48 pm
...discuss all manners of subjects as they relate to our lifestyle in an open and frank manner.

I know the answer is No.

But it would be nice, within the confines of such a relatively upstanding and mature forum, with individuals that have credible knowledge, education and experience; to open up the dialogue regarding the use of AAS.

Within the confines of how you began the thread G, I think the smack of irony is exceptionally strong, seeing as how damn near every sponsored athlete under the Animal/Universal banner makes use of such substances. I'm not stupid. Not many here are, maybe some are just naive. And no, I'm sure as hell not saying that AAS is the only way anybody ever achieved their goals. I'm just getting to the age where I'd like to educate myself about the possibility of supplementing my body's hormone levels. And it would be perfect, if a place such as this one would allow us to engage in open conversation, about the in's and out's of the substances that most of the sponsored athlete's here take advantage of. Testosterone cyp or M-Stak? Hmmm, I wonder which one will work better. Lol. I work a physically demanding job and my body is one of my most important tools. I've been in the game long enough to know that putting most of my money toward whole foods is the way to go. I'm using the least amount of supplements I've ever used, a few tried and true, scientifically proven stand by's. I'm not looking for Mr. Olympia's cocktail recipe or any BS like that. I know that smart training, hard work and nutritious food are my staples. I think you guys in the know, are probably picking up what I'm putting down.

And again, I know the rules. I know it won't happen here. Bad for business.

It's just ironic. And simply wanted to get that off my chest.

That being said, I still have all the respect in the world for Animal. Only brand I'll ever give my money to.

GunRock
03-23-15, 4:35 pm
Dan Green made a good point at those Animal sessions last year at the Arnold. Powerlifters get big to get strong and Bodybuilders get strong to get big.

So either way you want to be big and strong.

True enough, my point is that I've spent the last couple of years doing a lot of low rep work and I'm wondering if in order to balance the scales I should do strictly bodybuilding style training or if I should just use a 70s big training style (powerbuilding) and let my weak points catch up as they do. I should add that I've begun to experience the strains and sprains common to low rep work and I want to still be doing this sort of thing well into my seventies and eighties. I'm willing to sacrifice a big total (well big to me anyway) if it increases my likelihood of lifting heavy and being healthy well into my older years. Not something I cared about in my twenties but in my forties, especially given what's happened to me and my family the past year, longevity is more important than ever. By the same token, who wants to live a long time as a weakling?

It seems that the gist of both of what you guys are suggesting is to just go the power building route and let my body develop as it does.

GunRock
03-23-15, 4:44 pm
I know the answer is No.

But it would be nice, within the confines of such a relatively upstanding and mature forum, with individuals that have credible knowledge, education and experience; to open up the dialogue regarding the use of AAS.

It's just ironic. And simply wanted to get that off my chest.

So just to throw my two cents in before we're told to behave, I'm also at the age when I'm interested in improving my hormonal profile. I find it extremely hypocritical that a woman can get female hormones in whatever form she prefers simply to avoid the inconvenience of reproduction or to regulate her natural menstrual cycle but I have to jump through hoops and shit in a swinging bucket to get a doctor to prescribe me male hormone to maintain my levels in the high end of the normal range. I went to the doctor a few years ago, complaining of low libido, decreased enthusiasm for things I used to enjoy, exhaustion, irritability and he wouldn't even test me. If I were a woman wanting estrogen, despite the risk of breast cancer, all I'd have to say is that I didn't want to have a period and I could get a shot or some pills as long as insurance kept paying. Amazing.


That being said, I still have all the respect in the world for Animal. Only brand I'll ever give my money to.

Agreed.

G Diesel
03-23-15, 5:03 pm
I know the answer is No.

But it would be nice, within the confines of such a relatively upstanding and mature forum, with individuals that have credible knowledge, education and experience; to open up the dialogue regarding the use of AAS.

Within the confines of how you began the thread G, I think the smack of irony is exceptionally strong, seeing as how damn near every sponsored athlete under the Animal/Universal banner makes use of such substances. I'm not stupid. Not many here are, maybe some are just naive. And no, I'm sure as hell not saying that AAS is the only way anybody ever achieved their goals. I'm just getting to the age where I'd like to educate myself about the possibility of supplementing my body's hormone levels. And it would be perfect, if a place such as this one would allow us to engage in open conversation, about the in's and out's of the substances that most of the sponsored athlete's here take advantage of. Testosterone cyp or M-Stak? Hmmm, I wonder which one will work better. Lol. I work a physically demanding job and my body is one of my most important tools. I've been in the game long enough to know that putting most of my money toward whole foods is the way to go. I'm using the least amount of supplements I've ever used, a few tried and true, scientifically proven stand by's. I'm not looking for Mr. Olympia's cocktail recipe or any BS like that. I know that smart training, hard work and nutritious food are my staples. I think you guys in the know, are probably picking up what I'm putting down.

And again, I know the rules. I know it won't happen here. Bad for business.

It's just ironic. And simply wanted to get that off my chest.

That being said, I still have all the respect in the world for Animal. Only brand I'll ever give my money to.

That's why I said within the rules, because there are some limits. The irony isn't lost on me bro. I understand.

I'd love for things to be completely unfiltered. But I think we have a responsibility too. Sure many of the best athletes in our subculture are enhanced, some very much so. But I don't want us to give the impression to young kids, or novices of whatever age, that gear is the only route. Beyond the legalities of Animal being a legit business and not discussing illicit drugs here, there are moral issues to be considered.

I think there is so much to be learned from our community in terms of training, nutrition and otc supps, that anyone with dedication and consistency can turn themselves into a tank taking the long road home. You might not be on the Olympia stage at the apex of your journey, but that is barely relevant to the vastest majority of us.

If you want the info about juice, it is all but a Google search away, but as a company and a community, we can't co-sign that route on our FORVM. And I know you get that.

Peace, G

intoodeep25
03-23-15, 5:35 pm
I know the answer is No.

But it would be nice, within the confines of such a relatively upstanding and mature forum, with individuals that have credible knowledge, education and experience; to open up the dialogue regarding the use of AAS.

Within the confines of how you began the thread G, I think the smack of irony is exceptionally strong, seeing as how damn near every sponsored athlete under the Animal/Universal banner makes use of such substances. I'm not stupid. Not many here are, maybe some are just naive. And no, I'm sure as hell not saying that AAS is the only way anybody ever achieved their goals. I'm just getting to the age where I'd like to educate myself about the possibility of supplementing my body's hormone levels. And it would be perfect, if a place such as this one would allow us to engage in open conversation, about the in's and out's of the substances that most of the sponsored athlete's here take advantage of. Testosterone cyp or M-Stak? Hmmm, I wonder which one will work better. Lol. I work a physically demanding job and my body is one of my most important tools. I've been in the game long enough to know that putting most of my money toward whole foods is the way to go. I'm using the least amount of supplements I've ever used, a few tried and true, scientifically proven stand by's. I'm not looking for Mr. Olympia's cocktail recipe or any BS like that. I know that smart training, hard work and nutritious food are my staples. I think you guys in the know, are probably picking up what I'm putting down.

And again, I know the rules. I know it won't happen here. Bad for business.

It's just ironic. And simply wanted to get that off my chest.

That being said, I still have all the respect in the world for Animal. Only brand I'll ever give my money to.

Solid post. I also dig G's response. This forum is a rare place where grown men actually speak to each other like grown men. No anger, just simply stating facts or opinions and then feeding off one another. Soak it in guys, the rest of the internet/world just isn't like this anymore.

With that being said, I agree completely. I began exploring these things that shall not be named (I feel like harry potter talking about voldermort LOL) 2 years ago. Its very hard to figure out what to trust to put into your body when you aren't a chemist and don't know anybody TRUSTWORTHY to ask questions to. The world of AAS is VERY confusing. I agree with Motta, it would be amazing to have a thread here where adults can discuss this topic and get good, solid information from people that know what they are talking about and aren't out to screw you. With that being said, PM's would be your best bet here. I have sent a few and have gotten some good answers.

This thread is off to a great start. I am subbed. Looking forward to getting in on some more of these conversations with you gentlemen.

Machine
03-23-15, 5:51 pm
I know the answer is No.

But it would be nice, within the confines of such a relatively upstanding and mature forum, with individuals that have credible knowledge, education and experience; to open up the dialogue regarding the use of AAS.

Within the confines of how you began the thread G, I think the smack of irony is exceptionally strong, seeing as how damn near every sponsored athlete under the Animal/Universal banner makes use of such substances. I'm not stupid. Not many here are, maybe some are just naive. And no, I'm sure as hell not saying that AAS is the only way anybody ever achieved their goals. I'm just getting to the age where I'd like to educate myself about the possibility of supplementing my body's hormone levels. And it would be perfect, if a place such as this one would allow us to engage in open conversation, about the in's and out's of the substances that most of the sponsored athlete's here take advantage of. Testosterone cyp or M-Stak? Hmmm, I wonder which one will work better. Lol. I work a physically demanding job and my body is one of my most important tools. I've been in the game long enough to know that putting most of my money toward whole foods is the way to go. I'm using the least amount of supplements I've ever used, a few tried and true, scientifically proven stand by's. I'm not looking for Mr. Olympia's cocktail recipe or any BS like that. I know that smart training, hard work and nutritious food are my staples. I think you guys in the know, are probably picking up what I'm putting down.

And again, I know the rules. I know it won't happen here. Bad for business.

It's just ironic. And simply wanted to get that off my chest.

That being said, I still have all the respect in the world for Animal. Only brand I'll ever give my money to.


There's nothing out there that I haven't seen; there is nothing I'm not willing to discuss. I respect that this forum exists as a place for people to function within agreed upon norms; I won't violate those norms. I can however, talk about what I know and what I've done. I'm happy to do that in a way that preserves this forum and respects all involved - offline.

When I mention respect, I also mean respect for the process and for athletes. I won't entertain any "Harry Potter" questions...anyone who asks me a "magic pill" type question will be disallowed - period. You disrespect many, many athletes when you act as if the whole entire world opened up after 12 injections...if your mind works this way...don't waste my time. The folks at the U, G and the rest of the team work hard to bring this place integrity...I understand that they don't want muddy the waters...but it's a bit more complicated than "bad for business."

MACHINE

rainman
03-23-15, 6:01 pm
Sure many of the best athletes in our subculture are enhanced, some very much so...

This is something I would like to bring up but, of course, I will be careful how I word it.

At the recent Arnold Classic, Arnold himself called out the judging, obviously being in favour of Cedric McMillan's more classic look over the more blocky physiques of the majority of todays Olympia bodybuilders. These are the 'top guys'- the ones that will get the most coverage in magazines and through sponsorship/ guest posing. Here is the problem. I only know half of what they need to take to get to this size, (if even that), and I train alongside some very credible trainers and don't consider myself completely blind to AAS, even though I've never used myself.

Now, I don't have a problem with anyone using whatever they like, providing they aren't competing in natural comps and are doing it safely. My issue is that I have seen an increasing amount of people having to step their supplementation up a notch to get to that level, increasing the risk of many potentially serious side effects whilst also taking the dream of emulating the top pros further away for the average guy.

Can bodybuilding really carry on like this?

Machine
03-23-15, 6:10 pm
...beyond the obvious, there are some "independent variables" we can talk about that don't have to be rife with references to illicit substances. I can eliminate the confusion of many by simply breaking the process into easier to digest components.

One of the first such principles I'll highlight is a cliche' but a statement which I've found true in spite of that:

You have to build a strong foundation before you play the trump cards in the deck; you don't put rocket fuel into a ratty lawn mover...no offense. People resist the truth of an athlete's situation many times. I've known great champions on a personal level; some tell people the unadulterated truth...people don't believe it anyway - it's ridiculous. An open mind is the most advantageous weapon. If you don't want to believe that I weighed well over 300 pounds before I ever touched any substance...then you simply won't believe it. This is the truth of my situation though; I didn't need substances to be "big." In fact, I weighed over 320 pounds before I ever touched anything. But I wasn't pure garbage; this was athletic weight, and I'm not 6'4" either.

This is why I'm constantly telling people to stop babying themselves; I see all these well adjusted folks...it's uninspiring. Everyone has everything all figured out...then why can you make the fucking scale move and not look like a baby elephant.

MACHINE

Machine
03-23-15, 6:17 pm
This is something I would like to bring up but, of course, I will be careful how I word it.

At the recent Arnold Classic, Arnold himself called out the judging, obviously being in favour of Cedric McMillan's more classic look over the more blocky physiques of the majority of todays Olympia bodybuilders. These are the 'top guys'- the ones that will get the most coverage in magazines and through sponsorship/ guest posing. Here is the problem. I only know half of what they need to take to get to this size, (if even that), and I train alongside some very credible trainers and don't consider myself completely blind to AAS, even though I've never used myself.

Now, I don't have a problem with anyone using whatever they like, providing they aren't competing in natural comps and are doing it safely. My issue is that I have seen an increasing amount of people having to step their supplementation up a notch to get to that level, increasing the risk of many potentially serious side effects whilst also taking the dream of emulating the top pros further away for the average guy.

Can bodybuilding really carry on like this?


ANSWER: YES, bodybuilding can and will carry on like this. And whomever your favorite is...he/she is no puritan. Trust me, I've been around. There are substances being pushed to the mainstream that are very dangerous and can have disastrous implications for people with terrific physiques...they destroy themselves trying to live up to peoples' expectations. You have to be willing to look at things from a different perspective. Do you know what it feels like to show up somewhere for an appearance at 285 lbs. in fair shape and have people sound almost disappointed to hear your bodyweight? I'm betting you don't.

Myriad factors are pushing the sport in the direction it's heading; people want to see the long ball...period. I don't see that changing any time soon. I'm doing all that I can to have an impact and to educate...many people with more gravitas than myself have been trying for a long, long time now. I'm no hypocrite; I'll discuss the science of substances and educate people whenever I can; I get more and more worried for our young athletes with each passing year...they are not educated.

MACHINE

intoodeep25
03-23-15, 6:22 pm
There's nothing out there that I haven't seen; there is nothing I'm not willing to discuss. I respect that this forum exists as a place for people to function within agreed upon norms; I won't violate those norms. I can however, talk about what I know and what I've done. I'm happy to do that in a way that preserves this forum and respects all involved - offline.

When I mention respect, I also mean respect for the process and for athletes. I won't entertain any "Harry Potter" questions...anyone who asks me a "magic pill" type question will be disallowed - period. You disrespect many, many athletes when you act as if the whole entire world opened up after 12 injections...if your mind works this way...don't waste my time. The folks at the U, G and the rest of the team work hard to bring this place integrity...I understand that they don't want muddy the waters...but it's a bit more complicated than "bad for business."

MACHINE

I dont think anybody here is looking for a magic pill. There are, on the other hand, people looking for information and wanting to learn about things without just pulling up pages on the internet and taking it as truth. There isnt anything wrong with PMing questions to people who openly have stated in other areas besides the forum that they have experience with these things. There also isnt anything wrong with asking someone if they know anything about certain things and would be willing to answer questions instead of ASSUMING they do and outright asking. As with anything else, its all in the way you go about doing things.

Machine
03-23-15, 6:38 pm
I dont think anybody here is looking for a magic pill. There are, on the other hand, people looking for information and wanting to learn about things without just pulling up pages on the internet and taking it as truth. There isnt anything wrong with PMing questions to people who openly have stated in other areas besides the forum that they have experience with these things. There also isnt anything wrong with asking someone if they know anything about certain things and would be willing to answer questions instead of ASSUMING they do and outright asking. As with anything else, its all in the way you go about doing things.

I usually add a disclaimer so people don't read what I say and want to strangle me; I must tell people who read my posts and articles that they are not worded for your comfort. I use the term "you" in the generic; if it don't apply...let it fly. But I coach hard, I make no apologies for my approach...if you don't want hurt feelings...don't bring your feelings to work. Time is short, I don't have the luxury of massaging my messages so they are more palatable to the masses. If you want real shit, step up. If not skip my posts and save yourself the heartache that a cold cup of truth can often bring.

I wouldn't be here doing this if I didn't want to help people.

MACHINE

intoodeep25
03-23-15, 7:04 pm
I usually add a disclaimer so people don't read what I say and want to strangle me; I must tell people who read my posts and articles that they are not worded for your comfort. I use the term "you" in the generic; if it don't apply...let it fly. But I coach hard, I make no apologies for my approach...if you don't want hurt feelings...don't bring your feelings to work. Time is short, I don't have the luxury of massaging my messages so they are more palatable to the masses. If you want real shit, step up. If not skip my posts and save yourself the heartache that a cold cup of truth can often bring.

I wouldn't be here doing this if I didn't want to help people.

MACHINE

Im very familiar with you, ive been soaking up your words and information since 2007. I know how you operate and I appreciate it. I simply felt the need to elaborate and further the discussion. There are people here who genuinely want to learn and apply that information and go about doing this the right way.

rainman
03-23-15, 7:56 pm
ANSWER: YES, bodybuilding can and will carry on like this. And whomever your favorite is...he/she is no puritan. Trust me, I've been around. There are substances being pushed to the mainstream that are very dangerous and can have disastrous implications for people with terrific physiques...they destroy themselves trying to live up to peoples' expectations. You have to be willing to look at things from a different perspective. Do you know what it feels like to show up somewhere for an appearance at 285 lbs. in fair shape and have people sound almost disappointed to hear your bodyweight? I'm betting you don't.

Myriad factors are pushing the sport in the direction it's heading; people want to see the long ball...period. I don't see that changing any time soon. I'm doing all that I can to have an impact and to educate...many people with more gravitas than myself have been trying for a long, long time now. I'm no hypocrite; I'll discuss the science of substances and educate people whenever I can; I get more and more worried for our young athletes with each passing year...they are not educated.

MACHINE


You have to build a strong foundation before you play the trump cards in the deck; you don't put rocket fuel into a ratty lawn mover...

Thank you for your honest response. I have never been anywhere near 285lb or stepped out on stage, but appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to get to that level. I have been seeing a lot of young guys with no solid foundation wanting to get there as quickly as possible though, mainly as they want to emulate the current Olympia line up. The lawn mower reference is a perfect example of what I am concerned about. The art of bodybuilding seems to be getting lost in mass and how much size someone can put on. The Ferrari is becoming the Dodge Ram.

Machine
03-23-15, 9:17 pm
...Another issue which gets glossed over is an athlete's total capacity for muscle mass. I know I know this is another shit nugget that nobody wants to hear...but athletes' do have a finite capacity for muscle mass. That doesn't even speak to the quality of maximal muscle mass - what will it look like on your frame. This is a touchy area, which todayís thin skinned "everybody is a unique snow flake" types cannot handle.

The question: Just because a person can do something - does that mean he/she should? Pose it in bodybuilding terms: Will maximizing your body's muscular development put you on the path you want to be on? This is the reality that many, many athletes do not want to face; if you got everything you wanted, will it be all that you thought it would be?

Probably notÖI won't insult your intelligence though - being a large (not fat) mammal is pretty fucking great, irrespective of lines, or symmetry, etc.

I've known guys who were 6'9" and weighed over 400 good pounds; they still looked like hammered shit, but they were comprised of a ton of muscle with very low (relatively speaking) percent bodyfat. I believe that one of the keys lies in knowing what you want out of this thing; and also realizing that your objective may change over time.

When it comes to adding muscle, the importance of length of bone cannot be overstated; if you don't have sufficient clavicle, you will find it extremely difficult to add what Iíd call ďnext level muscularity.Ē Now, before people start waving the crying towel, Iím simply framing some uncomfortable eventualities. Iím not stating that itís not worth-while to push your physique beyond perceived limitationsÖquite the opposite. Iím attempting to adjust athletesí range finders for the sake improved clarity, aimed at decreased waste and increased efficiency in peoplesí lives.

Once you know what you want, once the deliberation is complete, nothing should stand in your way.

MACHINE

Machine
03-23-15, 9:35 pm
Thank you for your honest response. I have never been anywhere near 285lb or stepped out on stage, but appreciate the hard work and dedication it takes to get to that level. I have been seeing a lot of young guys with no solid foundation wanting to get there as quickly as possible though, mainly as they want to emulate the current Olympia line up. The lawn mower reference is a perfect example of what I am concerned about. The art of bodybuilding seems to be getting lost in mass and how much size someone can put on. The Ferrari is becoming the Dodge Ram.

Thank you for your candor; I appreciate sharing time with you. I once appeared with Joe DeAngelis - a legend to me, and he told a fan who had asked him his body-weight that he weighed 267...the fan said, "Is that all?"

I remember being so appalled and wanting to crush that guy, Joe just shook his head and smiled. I said can you imagine the balls on this guy...Joe handled it with class, but I was incensed. 267...and the way he was carrying it was astonishing, but it wasn't enough for the neophyte in the crowd...shameless. This only serves to illustrate my former point; massive physiques aren't going anywhere...irrespective of the stage judging.

MACHINE

John Grey
03-24-15, 7:52 am
What in the hell is with this shit on almost every post on instagram??

Someone is squatting... #goals
Someone is eating... #goals
Someone is holding hands...#goals

How about this instead, #dosomefuckingwork.

I hate saying that stupid hashtag plastered everywhere.... Just had to get that off my chest.

Swolepez
03-24-15, 8:07 am
What in the hell is with this shit on almost every post on instagram??

Someone is squatting... #goals
Someone is eating... #goals
Someone is holding hands...#goals

How about this instead, #dosomefuckingwork.

I hate saying that stupid hashtag plastered everywhere.... Just had to get that off my chest.


I underserstand what your saying..
I don't mind the hash tagging itself...I personally couldn't give a fuck...what gets to me is when a person uses hashtags that you know know damn well dosent really apply to them at all...
For ex) when someone hashtags #beast or #beastmode or #fitness when you know damn well that person dosent really make the sacrifices it takes to get the best body they can..for some reason it gets to me...but then again, why waste my time getting worked up about someone else's hashtag..i got to keep my head down and keep pushing towards my own personal goals

smoothballer
03-24-15, 8:26 am
On the topic of social media and people posting lifts. I think about this two ways. If the person is legitimately busting their ass, not cheating form, and proud of a lift accomplishment and it helps the mentally to further their motivation and goals then I say fuck it, go for it. BUT when you post to social media you have to be aware that not everyone will think with your same mentality as you did when you posted it so be prepared to shrug off the negative. On the other side if you are posting bullshit lifts that are going to further piss poor form and eventual injury then you need a reality check that will most likely come in the form of comments. Personally I don't post many of my lifts because that is not how I am fueled, but I can say I definitely appreciate the Pros putting their videos out there as I learn exercises, form, and get motivation for what I strive to move toward however far off it is.

John Grey
03-24-15, 9:00 am
This forum is a rare place where grown men actually speak to each other like grown men. No anger, just simply stating facts or opinions and then feeding off one another. Soak it in guys, the rest of the internet/world just isn't like this anymore.

I should print this, frame it, and hang it. It's perfect.

John Grey
03-24-15, 9:02 am
I underserstand what your saying..
I don't mind the hash tagging itself...I personally couldn't give a fuck...what gets to me is when a person uses hashtags that you know know damn well dosent really apply to them at all...
For ex) when someone hashtags #beast or #beastmode or #fitness when you know damn well that person dosent really make the sacrifices it takes to get the best body they can..for some reason it gets to me...but then again, why waste my time getting worked up about someone else's hashtag..i got to keep my head down and keep pushing towards my own personal goals

Yeah the #goals one is irritating, someone types they want what someone else has, why? Why would you want to have the journey of someone else? My road with all the potholes, bumps, and detours is what makes me who I am. I love my road and wouldn't wanna travel anyone else's.

John Grey
03-24-15, 9:05 am
On the topic of social media and people posting lifts. I think about this two ways. If the person is legitimately busting their ass, not cheating form, and proud of a lift accomplishment and it helps the mentally to further their motivation and goals then I say fuck it, go for it. BUT when you post to social media you have to be aware that not everyone will think with your same mentality as you did when you posted it so be prepared to shrug off the negative. On the other side if you are posting bullshit lifts that are going to further piss poor form and eventual injury then you need a reality check that will most likely come in the form of comments. Personally I don't post many of my lifts because that is not how I am fueled, but I can say I definitely appreciate the Pros putting their videos out there as I learn exercises, form, and get motivation for what I strive to move toward however far off it is.

Yeah and if you post something with bad form, own up to it that it sucks... I have a couple deadlift vids on my IG and I have gone back and commented exactly why they were terrible. If you don't leave yourself open to constructive criticisms especially against yourself then you're going to have a bad time.

Altered Beast
03-24-15, 9:59 am
So just to throw my two cents in before we're told to behave, I'm also at the age when I'm interested in improving my hormonal profile. I find it extremely hypocritical that a woman can get female hormones in whatever form she prefers simply to avoid the inconvenience of reproduction or to regulate her natural menstrual cycle but I have to jump through hoops and shit in a swinging bucket to get a doctor to prescribe me male hormone to maintain my levels in the high end of the normal range. I went to the doctor a few years ago, complaining of low libido, decreased enthusiasm for things I used to enjoy, exhaustion, irritability and he wouldn't even test me. If I were a woman wanting estrogen, despite the risk of breast cancer, all I'd have to say is that I didn't want to have a period and I could get a shot or some pills as long as insurance kept paying. Amazing.

Agreed.

There are specific forums on the net that are for this very purpose, not here.


That's why I said within the rules, because there are some limits. The irony isn't lost on me bro. I understand.

I'd love for things to be completely unfiltered. But I think we have a responsibility too. Sure many of the best athletes in our subculture are enhanced, some very much so. But I don't want us to give the impression to young kids, or novices of whatever age, that gear is the only route. Beyond the legalities of Animal being a legit business and not discussing illicit drugs here, there are moral issues to be considered.

I think there is so much to be learned from our community in terms of training, nutrition and otc supps, that anyone with dedication and consistency can turn themselves into a tank taking the long road home. You might not be on the Olympia stage at the apex of your journey, but that is barely relevant to the vastest majority of us.

If you want the info about juice, it is all but a Google search away, but as a company and a community, we can't co-sign that route on our FORVM. And I know you get that.

Peace, G

I agree with you. Lets keep this place focused on the important things:

1. Nutrition
2. Training
3. Sleep
4. Supps

Just my 3 cents.


Solid post. I also dig G's response. This forum is a rare place where grown men actually speak to each other like grown men. No anger, just simply stating facts or opinions and then feeding off one another. Soak it in guys, the rest of the internet/world just isn't like this anymore.

With that being said, I agree completely. I began exploring these things that shall not be named (I feel like harry potter talking about voldermort LOL) 2 years ago. Its very hard to figure out what to trust to put into your body when you aren't a chemist and don't know anybody TRUSTWORTHY to ask questions to. The world of AAS is VERY confusing. I agree with Motta, it would be amazing to have a thread here where adults can discuss this topic and get good, solid information from people that know what they are talking about and aren't out to screw you. With that being said, PM's would be your best bet here. I have sent a few and have gotten some good answers.

This thread is off to a great start. I am subbed. Looking forward to getting in on some more of these conversations with you gentlemen.

Reality scares the masses.

Machine
03-24-15, 1:46 pm
"There are specific forums on the net that are for this very purpose, not here."

I agree with you. Lets keep this place focused on the important things:

1. Nutrition
2. Training
3. Sleep
4. Supps

Just my 3 cents."


I understand what you're saying here; things very quickly degenerate into a shitshow. If you answer one question, it becomes a slippery slope...I get wanting to keep this space to a certain standard...but be careful with the white Whigs... Much more politically and socially expeditious to act as if it were not even an issue. I think I just read that 70% of high school students say it's easy to get salt...oh! I'm sorry, I forgot that salt does not exist.

To those people who take your advice, which is correct in that those sites do exist, I'd caution folks that this is a major part of the problem. Going on the "sites" where these issues are openly discussed creates a wild west atmosphere. People are going to do what they're going to do...one way or another. If I can't lend a guiding hand, at the very least I'll caution them away from the Bozo-The-Clown obvious websites which give credence and a platform to Muppet show rejects who have no first hand knowledge or experience, and therefore no right to dispense reckless advice.

I find this situation to be similar to the "old masters" in the martial arts; from what I understand it is forbidden to discuss certain disciplines or training openly, and because of this, the art form dies slowly but surely. The "right way" to do things is slowly being replaced by cowboy logic and half truths, those elements were always evident within this issue, it's just approaching the disaster zone precipitously - and people forget this phenomenon was mainly felt by serious competitors only...now all kinds of people are taking risks they should not.

As I said, and people resist over and over, there are many "horse ahead of the cart" type discussions which could and should steer most would-be AAS users away from that path for a long, long time to come.

If I cannot even dissuade people logically, due to the puritan rule, doesn't that do a disservice to young athletes?

MACHINE

Machine
03-24-15, 1:56 pm
People are not ready on so many levels...honesty is a real bitch. I'm off the topic; aaahhhhhh...feels good to be pure...I should have tried this years ago! But nooooo! I had to go and build my physique on PEDs!

Performance
Enhancing
Dreams

MACHINE

intoodeep25
03-24-15, 2:10 pm
I don't know how much longer we will be able to be on this topic but I will throw something out there while we are and I will use myself as the example. I lift at home in my garage that I have poured tons of money into over the years in order to make it my ideal place to train. I have no friends that are into powerlifting like I am. I don't have any training partners. I don't have any contacts that I can reach out and ask about AAS related topics and trust that they are guiding me in the right direction. For me, the guy who has trained by himself for years and accomplished some major personal goals, to include taking my bench from roughly 95lbs to now 455lbs or my squat from a pathetic 185lbs to over 600lbs, having someone to assist me with questions I have about such a serious topic would be paramount. I just recently started EXPLORING/RESEARCHING the world of AAS AFTER I put over 6 years of hard work in and got my numbers (OVER 500/400/600) and body mass (from 150lbs to now 278lbs) to a respectable level. There are many guys like me who have questions and need some real answers from people who have been there and done that. This wouldn't be for guys who just started and want to jump right into something they shouldn't. Obviously there needs to be disclaimers and warnings to people who shouldn't be inquiring in the first place. But I do honestly feel that with as real as ANIMAL keeps things that this would possibly be something that would help a lot of serious lifters get good solid information and might even keep some guys safe when they decide to take that next step. This is all only my personal opinion of course, take it for what you will.

N. Motta
03-24-15, 2:49 pm
I don't know how much longer we will be able to be on this topic but I will throw something out there while we are and I will use myself as the example. I lift at home in my garage that I have poured tons of money into over the years in order to make it my ideal place to train. I have no friends that are into powerlifting like I am. I don't have any training partners. I don't have any contacts that I can reach out and ask about AAS related topics and trust that they are guiding me in the right direction. For me, the guy who has trained by himself for years and accomplished some major personal goals, to include taking my bench from roughly 95lbs to now 455lbs or my squat from a pathetic 185lbs to over 600lbs, having someone to assist me with questions I have about such a serious topic would be paramount. I just recently started EXPLORING/RESEARCHING the world of AAS AFTER I put over 6 years of hard work in and got my numbers (OVER 500/400/600) and body mass (from 150lbs to now 278lbs) to a respectable level. There are many guys like me who have questions and need some real answers from people who have been there and done that. This wouldn't be for guys who just started and want to jump right into something they shouldn't. Obviously there needs to be disclaimers and warnings to people who shouldn't be inquiring in the first place. But I do honestly feel that with as real as ANIMAL keeps things that this would possibly be something that would help a lot of serious lifters get good solid information and might even keep some guys safe when they decide to take that next step. This is all only my personal opinion of course, take it for what you will.

You couldn't have stole the words out of my own mind, any better brother.

Exact same friggin boat as you.

G Diesel
03-24-15, 4:53 pm
People are not ready on so many levels...honesty is a real bitch. I'm off the topic; aaahhhhhh...feels good to be pure...I should have tried this years ago! But nooooo! I had to go and build my physique on PEDs!

Performance
Enhancing
Dreams

MACHINE

Dreams, at some points in my life, were all I could depend on to keep me going. No force has ever been so personally transformative.

Peace, G

Altered Beast
03-25-15, 10:23 am
"There are specific forums on the net that are for this very purpose, not here."

I agree with you. Lets keep this place focused on the important things:

1. Nutrition
2. Training
3. Sleep
4. Supps

Just my 3 cents."


I understand what you're saying here; things very quickly degenerate into a shitshow. If you answer one question, it becomes a slippery slope...I get wanting to keep this space to a certain standard...but be careful with the white Whigs... Much more politically and socially expeditious to act as if it were not even an issue. I think I just read that 70% of high school students say it's easy to get salt...oh! I'm sorry, I forgot that salt does not exist.

To those people who take your advice, which is correct in that those sites do exist, I'd caution folks that this is a major part of the problem. Going on the "sites" where these issues are openly discussed creates a wild west atmosphere. People are going to do what they're going to do...one way or another. If I can't lend a guiding hand, at the very least I'll caution them away from the Bozo-The-Clown obvious websites which give credence and a platform to Muppet show rejects who have no first hand knowledge or experience, and therefore no right to dispense reckless advice.

I find this situation to be similar to the "old masters" in the martial arts; from what I understand it is forbidden to discuss certain disciplines or training openly, and because of this, the art form dies slowly but surely. The "right way" to do things is slowly being replaced by cowboy logic and half truths, those elements were always evident within this issue, it's just approaching the disaster zone precipitously - and people forget this phenomenon was mainly felt by serious competitors only...now all kinds of people are taking risks they should not.

As I said, and people resist over and over, there are many "horse ahead of the cart" type discussions which could and should steer most would-be AAS users away from that path for a long, long time to come.

If I cannot even dissuade people logically, due to the puritan rule, doesn't that do a disservice to young athletes?

MACHINE

Wow! Deep but a bit vague.


I don't know how much longer we will be able to be on this topic but I will throw something out there while we are and I will use myself as the example. I lift at home in my garage that I have poured tons of money into over the years in order to make it my ideal place to train. I have no friends that are into powerlifting like I am. I don't have any training partners. I don't have any contacts that I can reach out and ask about AAS related topics and trust that they are guiding me in the right direction. For me, the guy who has trained by himself for years and accomplished some major personal goals, to include taking my bench from roughly 95lbs to now 455lbs or my squat from a pathetic 185lbs to over 600lbs, having someone to assist me with questions I have about such a serious topic would be paramount. I just recently started EXPLORING/RESEARCHING the world of AAS AFTER I put over 6 years of hard work in and got my numbers (OVER 500/400/600) and body mass (from 150lbs to now 278lbs) to a respectable level. There are many guys like me who have questions and need some real answers from people who have been there and done that. This wouldn't be for guys who just started and want to jump right into something they shouldn't. Obviously there needs to be disclaimers and warnings to people who shouldn't be inquiring in the first place. But I do honestly feel that with as real as ANIMAL keeps things that this would possibly be something that would help a lot of serious lifters get good solid information and might even keep some guys safe when they decide to take that next step. This is all only my personal opinion of course, take it for what you will.

Like I said, you can find every answer you need. Do your research and find the sources you should be listening to, I promise you they are out there.

Machine
03-25-15, 11:32 am
Wow! Deep but a bit vague.



Like I said, you can find every answer you need. Do your research and find the sources you should be listening to, I promise you they are out there.


Very respectfully, I've danced around and tried to be nice...now I will tell you flat out that you are giving flawed advice - period. The "websites" are thrown together and comments are formulated by suppliers or purveyors of substances...if they get a run on X...they push X...they are not knowledgeable and experienced in anything other than making money. The are pimps and profiteers - telling people to "do research" by using Google and going to websites is irresponsible and wrong - period.

MACHINE

Altered Beast
03-25-15, 2:27 pm
Very respectfully, I've danced around and tried to be nice...now I will tell you flat out that you are giving flawed advice - period. The "websites" are thrown together and comments are formulated by suppliers or purveyors of substances...if they get a run on X...they push X...they are not knowledgeable and experienced in anything other than making money. The are pimps and profiteers - telling people to "do research" by using Google and going to websites is irresponsible and wrong - period.

MACHINE

Oh okay, I misunderstood the message you were trying to get across.

I appreciate your straight shooter approach, I'm the same way in that regard.

Swolepez
03-26-15, 8:17 am
Sorry if this is a arrogant question...I don't know much about steroids/pro-hormones bc I'm personally not interested in taking that level of stuff...n

but I've heard SARMs is "not a steroid or pro-hormone" but stronger or a little different than a natural test booster...I'm mainly asking bc I have 3 friends at work who started using it, 1 is my age and 2 of them are in their 30s and they have been talking to me about it but I don't want to even research it too much if it's not worth it...
So basically...would you guys consider somebody who ran a bottle of SARMs natural? Is even worth a look as a supplement? Is there even enough research at this time to make conclusions? Are SARMs in the category of stuff we can't discuss here?

Again, sorry if this questions is naive but since my friends have been talking about it, I am a little curious...

Swolepez
03-26-15, 9:05 am
Sorry if this is a arrogant question...I don't know much about steroids/pro-hormones bc I'm personally not interested in taking that level of stuff...n

but I've heard SARMs is "not a steroid or pro-hormone" but stronger or a little different than a natural test booster...I'm mainly asking bc I have 3 friends at work who started using it, 1 is my age and 2 of them are in their 30s and they have been talking to me about it but I don't want to even research it too much if it's not worth it...
So basically...would you guys consider somebody who ran a bottle of SARMs natural? Is even worth a look as a supplement? Is there even enough research at this time to make conclusions? Are SARMs in the category of stuff we can't discuss here?

Again, sorry if this questions is naive but since my friends have been talking about it, I am a little curious...

Just to be clearer, although I was talking about SARMs in general I ment to say specifically Ostarine as that' seems to be the main ingredient in the bottle my friends are taking..

intoodeep25
03-26-15, 11:23 am
Just to be clearer, although I was talking about SARMs in general I ment to say specifically Ostarine as that' seems to be the main ingredient in the bottle my friends are taking..

I wonder how much research your friends did if they told you these aren't PED's. They are PED's, just with the benefit of lower sides than most others. I will leave it at that for the sake of still not knowing how in depth we can talk about things like this in here.

Altered Beast
03-26-15, 11:23 am
Sorry if this is a arrogant question...I don't know much about steroids/pro-hormones bc I'm personally not interested in taking that level of stuff...n

but I've heard SARMs is "not a steroid or pro-hormone" but stronger or a little different than a natural test booster...I'm mainly asking bc I have 3 friends at work who started using it, 1 is my age and 2 of them are in their 30s and they have been talking to me about it but I don't want to even research it too much if it's not worth it...
So basically...would you guys consider somebody who ran a bottle of SARMs natural? Is even worth a look as a supplement? Is there even enough research at this time to make conclusions? Are SARMs in the category of stuff we can't discuss here?

Again, sorry if this questions is naive but since my friends have been talking about it, I am a little curious...

Anything that messes with your Endocrine System and endogenous production isn't natural. SARMs and SERMs are drugs as well, referred to as Ancillary Drugs.

intoodeep25
03-26-15, 11:40 am
Anything that messes with your Endocrine System and endogenous production isn't natural. SARMs and SERMs are drugs as well, referred to as Ancillary Drugs.

Exactly. I think a lot of guys lie to themselves initially when dipping their toe into the world of PED's and AAS. Typically they will take something very mild with little to no sides and convince themselves that its not a "drug". Either that or they are just simply uninformed and didn't do nearly enough research before deciding to take that step in the first place.

Altered Beast
03-26-15, 11:49 am
Exactly. I think a lot of guys lie to themselves initially when dipping their toe into the world of PED's and AAS. Typically they will take something very mild with little to no sides and convince themselves that its not a "drug". Either that or they are just simply uninformed and didn't do nearly enough research before deciding to take that step in the first place.

It can be a very dangerous road if one has no clue as to what they're doing.

Swolepez
03-26-15, 3:06 pm
I wonder how much research your friends did if they told you these aren't PED's. They are PED's, just with the benefit of lower sides than most others. I will leave it at that for the sake of still not knowing how in depth we can talk about things like this in here.

That's the problem, they don't do research..I'm the only one who really tries to dig for more info...thanks for the Answer brother, greatly appreciate it...


Anything that messes with your Endocrine System and endogenous production isn't natural. SARMs and SERMs are drugs as well, referred to as Ancillary Drugs.

Thanks AB for taking the time to answer!

Swolepez
03-30-15, 11:19 pm
Wow, this thread is starting to dwindle already so I thought I would bring up a topic that hits home...be honest guys, what do you think about proprietary blends?

Do you like to know exactly what is in your products?

Or as long as what you take works when it matters most: under the f**cking bar, then your fine with that?

Or do you have mixed feeling? Again, be honest brothers..


As for me...I'm more of a mixed feeling guys...
1) I do like to know what I'm taking and how much...I dnot usually get supps for free so it comes out from my hard earned hours so I like to know what I'm paying for..esp when I have a wife, plan to have a kid soon, pay rent, pay bills etc...

2) I also like to know how much of each ingredient I'm taking, I have a wife and we are planning to have a kid soon so even though I want to have a good body, I want to be healthy too...I want to know how much of ingredient X is going in to my system with every scoop..from a performance stand point and a healthy stand point...

3) but at the same time, I don't give a f**k if supplement X has clinical doses if I don't feel jack s**t when I take it..

So I'm kinda a mixed feelings guy...overall I want something that works but that I also have a pretty clear idea of how much of each ingredient I'm getting...my personal opinion, I would to see Animal/Universal going the open label route in the future but either way you guys have earned my trust...

Machine
03-31-15, 12:57 pm
Exactly. I think a lot of guys lie to themselves initially when dipping their toe into the world of PED's and AAS. Typically they will take something very mild with little to no sides and convince themselves that its not a "drug". Either that or they are just simply uninformed and didn't do nearly enough research before deciding to take that step in the first place.

I don't know what "very mild" means; I don't believe there is anything pharmacological, chemical, or organic that we can point to where that terminology would be appropriate. Respectfully, mixing moral/ethical with purely medical/scientific assertions becomes troublesome - either way the thought process is flawed from my perspective. A smart man/woman could study for a lifetime and be "uninformed" at one point or another. People want absolutes, they also seem to feel the need to justify their actions. I could preach all day and I cannot make a dent; the course of scientific action must be mission dependent. Strip away the generalizations, rationalizations, and come to grips with the risk aspect of anything, then expose yourself to a methodology which is grounded in "successful outcomes." Then we can attempt to align your outcomes with the shit that comes out of your mouth...that ladies and gentlemen is how you rise above in the rat kingdom.

ďAll things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.Ē ~ Paracelsus or Agricola - Whomever you choose to attribute the quote to.

MACHINE

intoodeep25
03-31-15, 1:21 pm
I don't know what "very mild" means; I don't believe there is anything pharmacological, chemical, or organic that we can point to where that terminology would be appropriate. Respectfully, mixing moral/ethical with purely medical/scientific assertions becomes troublesome - either way the thought process is flawed from my perspective. A smart man/woman could study for a lifetime and be "uninformed" at one point or another. People want absolutes, they also seem to feel the need to justify their actions. I could preach all day and I cannot make a dent; the course of scientific action must be mission dependent. Strip away the generalizations, rationalizations, and come to grips with the risk aspect of anything, then expose yourself to a methodology which is grounded in "successful outcomes." Then we can attempt to align your outcomes with the shit that comes out of your mouth...that ladies and gentlemen is how you rise above in the rat kingdom.

ďAll things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison.Ē ~ Paracelsus or Agricola - Whomever you choose to attribute the quote to.

MACHINE


In terms of things like side effects, liver toxicity, etc. there most certainly are some that are much more mild than others. I agree with you that overall everything is dangerous to some extent but you cant tell me that each and every compound is the same.

Machine
03-31-15, 1:47 pm
In terms of things like side effects, liver toxicity, etc. there most certainly are some that are much more mild than others. I agree with you that overall everything is dangerous to some extent but you cant tell me that each and every compound is the same.

You see, I am not here to codify organic chemistry for anyone. Compounds are what they are, you are speaking about something that is self-evident and needs no clarification from you or I. Massive generalizations again, you are so ingrained in a particular way of thought that you fail to even realize it as you do it. One athlete can ingest one substance, one time, and have major negative implications, another athlete can ingest 5 grams of a compound daily for 10 years and be seemigly unaffected from the perspective of hazards to health. These issues have complexities you have not considered and are not aware of.

MACHINE

Altered Beast
03-31-15, 2:25 pm
You see, I am not here to codify organic chemistry for anyone. Compounds are what they are, you are speaking about something that is self-evident and needs no clarification from you or I. Massive generalizations again, you are so ingrained in a particular way of thought that you fail to even realize it as you do it. One athlete can ingest one substance, one time, and have major negative implications, another athlete can ingest 5 grams of a compound daily for 10 years and be seemigly unaffected from the perspective of hazards to health. These issues have complexities you have not considered and are not aware of.

MACHINE

You left that one open.

GunRock
04-01-15, 12:41 am
Wow, this thread is starting to dwindle already so I thought I would bring up a topic that hits home...be honest guys, what do you think about proprietary blends?

Do you like to know exactly what is in your products?

Or as long as what you take works when it matters most: under the f**cking bar, then your fine with that?

Or do you have mixed feeling? Again, be honest brothers..


As for me...I'm more of a mixed feeling guys...
1) I do like to know what I'm taking and how much...I dnot usually get supps for free so it comes out from my hard earned hours so I like to know what I'm paying for..esp when I have a wife, plan to have a kid soon, pay rent, pay bills etc...

2) I also like to know how much of each ingredient I'm taking, I have a wife and we are planning to have a kid soon so even though I want to have a good body, I want to be healthy too...I want to know how much of ingredient X is going in to my system with every scoop..from a performance stand point and a healthy stand point...

3) but at the same time, I don't give a f**k if supplement X has clinical doses if I don't feel jack s**t when I take it..

So I'm kinda a mixed feelings guy...overall I want something that works but that I also have a pretty clear idea of how much of each ingredient I'm getting...my personal opinion, I would to see Animal/Universal going the open label route in the future but either way you guys have earned my trust...

I think label transparency has it's place. I also think companies should be able to protect their intellectual property. Look how much Animal's t shirts are ripped off for example. That being said, deceptive labeling isn't fixed by listing ingredients. Since the FDA doesn't really regulate the supplement industry beyond banning anything that works too well companies are always going to be able to get away with putting trace amounts of this year's "miracle" ingredient into a product and pretend it's the main ingredient. The supplem making segment from Bigger Stronger Faster really opened my eyes. That's pretty much why I chose Universal/Animal over other brands. A track record dating back almost 40 years is a big deal in my book. I also prefer tried and true supplements. No fancy new stuff. I think new products are for when you've exhausted the gains from the tried and true and most of us are not there yet.

MELTDOWN
04-01-15, 9:27 am
I think label transparency has it's place. I also think companies should be able to protect their intellectual property. Look how much Animal's t shirts are ripped off for example. That being said, deceptive labeling isn't fixed by listing ingredients. Since the FDA doesn't really regulate the supplement industry beyond banning anything that works too well companies are always going to be able to get away with putting trace amounts of this year's "miracle" ingredient into a product and pretend it's the main ingredient. The supplem making segment from Bigger Stronger Faster really opened my eyes. That's pretty much why I chose Universal/Animal over other brands. A track record dating back almost 40 years is a big deal in my book. I also prefer tried and true supplements. No fancy new stuff. I think new products are for when you've exhausted the gains from the tried and true and most of us are not there yet.

Solid post Gun.... and totally agree. UN / Animal have spent tons of time and effort, over many many years to get to where they are today. And I have NO issue as some ingredients are proprietary.
Heck, even if all the companies did list each and every ingredient, 98% of the folks still would have no clue as to what they were or exactly how they would work.
As I have for a couple decades, I will continue to use and support the UN / Animal products & brand.
Consistent products with consistent results, along with an unwavering dedication to the sport and lifestyle.

I would be lying if I said some of the "hot & new" brands and marketing didn't catch my eye and curiosity, but ultimately when the tubs and cans near empty,they get reordered.
I always stick with my Pop's old saying... " Go with what got you there", and for me, it's UN / Animal. Labels or not, they have my trust.

Carry On !!!

Altered Beast
04-01-15, 9:34 am
I think label transparency has it's place. I also think companies should be able to protect their intellectual property. Look how much Animal's t shirts are ripped off for example. That being said, deceptive labeling isn't fixed by listing ingredients. Since the FDA doesn't really regulate the supplement industry beyond banning anything that works too well companies are always going to be able to get away with putting trace amounts of this year's "miracle" ingredient into a product and pretend it's the main ingredient. The supplem making segment from Bigger Stronger Faster really opened my eyes. That's pretty much why I chose Universal/Animal over other brands. A track record dating back almost 40 years is a big deal in my book. I also prefer tried and true supplements. No fancy new stuff. I think new products are for when you've exhausted the gains from the tried and true and most of us are not there yet.

Another reason why Animal and Universal are two of the most recognized brand names out there!

Only company who's supplements actually work for me or at least did what they were supposed to do. Pure, simple ingredients that work and don't tear up your stomach!

Swolepez
04-01-15, 8:31 pm
simple ingredients that work and don't tear up your stomach!

One of the reason I love the Animal "packs" as well...no stomach issues...

teperry46
04-01-15, 9:06 pm
One of the main reasons I decided to start using Animal/Universal supps was that they dont make the bullshit claims most brands do, and everyone says the same thing...they fucking work.

GunRock
04-02-15, 6:49 pm
One of the main reasons I decided to start using Animal/Universal supps was that they dont make the bullshit claims most brands do, and everyone says the same thing...they fucking work.

I think it's significant that whenever you ask a seasoned veteran, someone who's developed their body to an admirable level, their answers about supplementation are always so simple that it's boring. Animal even has a series, "Supplement Simplicity". Yet we still have people clamoring for the next magic pill that company X is talking about. I think it's people in that situation who need to know what they're taking because some of the stuff is crazy. But we've studied the ingredients in Animal Pak for years and years. Same thing with Flex. By we I mean the people on this Forvm as well as the people in lab coats and experts in the industry.

That's why I agree with Machine that we don't take full advantage of the knowledge on here. This is a resource to study not just hang out. I like hanging out too but I come here to learn so I freely admit to trolling the Packs section even though I don't post there a lot.

Education needs to be self directed to be effective. Only you can tailor your learning to what you need to know. In my own personal case, I know that I need to add muscle and lose bodyfat to be more competitive in my weight class as well as achieve my longevity and quality of life goals. So I'm picking the brains of bodybuilders about muscle building, watching videos like the Train With Kai Greene series on YouTube so I can make my accessory work more effective. I'm trying to eat better food so that the few supplements I take work better. I take products made by companies I trust and I read the Packs section to find out what those products do.

Or put it another way, I trust Animal/Universal so I don't need to know what's in the supplements to know if it's safe. But I do need to know what stuff does so I know if I can mix it with this or that. I think we can achieve that with what we already have at our disposal i.e. the Packs section, so they don't have to reveal their proprietary blends to satisfy my curiosity.

deiontebrah
05-27-15, 3:08 am
I think it's significant that whenever you ask a seasoned veteran, someone who's developed their body to an admirable level, their answers about supplementation are always so simple that it's boring. Animal even has a series, "Supplement Simplicity". Yet we still have people clamoring for the next magic pill that company X is talking about. I think it's people in that situation who need to know what they're taking because some of the stuff is crazy. But we've studied the ingredients in Animal Pak for years and years. Same thing with Flex. By we I mean the people on this Forvm as well as the people in lab coats and experts in the industry.

That's why I agree with Machine that we don't take full advantage of the knowledge on here. This is a resource to study not just hang out. I like hanging out too but I come here to learn so I freely admit to trolling the Packs section even though I don't post there a lot.

Education needs to be self directed to be effective. Only you can tailor your learning to what you need to know. In my own personal case, I know that I need to add muscle and lose bodyfat to be more competitive in my weight class as well as achieve my longevity and quality of life goals. So I'm picking the brains of bodybuilders about muscle building, watching videos like the Train With Kai Greene series on YouTube so I can make my accessory work more effective. I'm trying to eat better food so that the few supplements I take work better. I take products made by companies I trust and I read the Packs section to find out what those products do.

Or put it another way, I trust Animal/Universal so I don't need to know what's in the supplements to know if it's safe. But I do need to know what stuff does so I know if I can mix it with this or that. I think we can achieve that with what we already have at our disposal i.e. the Packs section, so they don't have to reveal their proprietary blends to satisfy my curiosity.

This thread is starting to get a little dry. I completely agree with you Gunrock. I've been studying the supplement simplicity videos for the past month and one thing I notice is that everyone is using the basics. Multi, Efa's, EAA's, creatine, glutamine, etc. No bullshit magic muscle builders, which I myself since I'm young and naive been prone to buying. This past month though I've been focusing on the basics, whole foods and then supplements all because they work. I think in one of Ox's old videos he said something like "many bodybuilders have built great physiques on chicken and canned tuna. If it worked then, it'll work now." Without a doubt this is my new take on supplementation.

GunRock
05-30-15, 10:08 am
Based upon my own experiences I think we need a clear progression with local, regional and national meets. I'm ok with guys being able to put on local meets just for fun or charity but we don't need a billion federations with rules set up so the lifters can only use the gear made by us or our friends.
RUM is a step in the right direction. As a fan I want to be able to watch my favorite athletes go head to head in one building not have to check rankings after the fact.

Cellardweller
05-30-15, 10:49 am
Based upon my own experiences I think we need a clear progression with local, regional and national meets. I'm ok with guys being able to put on local meets just for fun or charity but we don't need a billion federations with rules set up so the lifters can only use the gear made by us or our friends.
RUM is a step in the right direction. As a fan I want to be able to watch my favorite athletes go head to head in one building not have to check rankings after the fact.

The problem is is how do you get the kings of all the smaller countries to bow down to one great king? They must be convinced to let go of their power in favor of another. Who wants to do that? I agree with what you want, but the way this sport evolved into a sport has created its own beast.

GunRock
05-30-15, 11:46 pm
The problem is is how do you get the kings of all the smaller countries to bow down to one great king? They must be convinced to let go of their power in favor of another. Who wants to do that? I agree with what you want, but the way this sport evolved into a sport has created its own beast.

The thing is that as a largely amateur sport the customers (lifters) have more power than we think. If enough of the rank and file refused to take what we're given we could starve out some of the worst offenders and the field wouldn't be so crowded. For example if we patronize the better feds, let go of ego and refuse to pay money to compete in somebody's b.s. backyard world championship that mysteriously is only held in the promoters home country, that would be a start.

Altered Beast
06-01-15, 9:51 am
Based upon my own experiences I think we need a clear progression with local, regional and national meets. I'm ok with guys being able to put on local meets just for fun or charity but we don't need a billion federations with rules set up so the lifters can only use the gear made by us or our friends.
RUM is a step in the right direction. As a fan I want to be able to watch my favorite athletes go head to head in one building not have to check rankings after the fact.

I'd agree with the exception of knee wraps. Even the Russian's choose Feds that allow knee wraps. Once you're Squatting in the 800-1000 Pound range, it's only smart to fully protect your knees.

Most American Feds allow 2.5 meter, while many Euro Feds allow only 2 meter. Funny how that is such a huge debate, especially amongst the IPF/USAPL assholes!

naturalguy
06-01-15, 10:33 am
Based upon my own experiences I think we need a clear progression with local, regional and national meets. I'm ok with guys being able to put on local meets just for fun or charity but we don't need a billion federations with rules set up so the lifters can only use the gear made by us or our friends.
RUM is a step in the right direction. As a fan I want to be able to watch my favorite athletes go head to head in one building not have to check rankings after the fact.

It's a real challenge. Powerlifting is so fragmented. Crossfit (whether you like it or not) did it right in the aspect of one organization and they marketed it right.

Altered Beast
06-02-15, 12:08 pm
It's a real challenge. Powerlifting is so fragmented. Crossfit (whether you like it or not) did it right in the aspect of one organization and they marketed it right.

They got immediate, massive corporate sponsorships. Powerlifting chooses not to sell out, one of the many reasons I deeply love my chosen Sport!

intoodeep25
06-02-15, 1:33 pm
They got immediate, massive corporate sponsorships. Powerlifting chooses not to sell out, one of the many reasons I deeply love my chosen Sport!

That and you have to factor in that success with crossfit is so much more attainable. Anybody can do it. To have success in powerlifting or strongman or bodybuilding for most people it takes over a decade of hard work, serious nutrition and attention to other aspects such as recovery and sleep. Crossfit is that roll out of bed and go do it type of thing, it can be your first day and you can succeed and be good at it. It fits well with the right now culture that we unfortunately live in.

GunRock
06-02-15, 2:13 pm
That and you have to factor in that success with crossfit is so much more attainable. Anybody can do it. To have success in powerlifting or strongman or bodybuilding for most people it takes over a decade of hard work, serious nutrition and attention to other aspects such as recovery and sleep. Crossfit is that roll out of bed and go do it type of thing, it can be your first day and you can succeed and be good at it. It fits well with the right now culture that we unfortunately live in.

I don't think that competing at The Crossfit Games could ever be characterized as easily attainable. By contrast in powerlifting it's fairly easy to find a backyard organization to lift in and win a World title with little effort.
If powerlifting did what Strongman did we wouldn't be so fragmented. For that matter the NFL and NBA are the recognized organizations for their sports but were niche until someone got the marketing right. Many people enjoy football and basketball because they played at some point. Tons of people do the powerlifts but would rather watch strangers do Crossfit than go watch people they know compete. Why? Because we don't make it spectator friendly and design it so the best lifters compete.
If golf can do it, strongman can do it, NASCAR can do it, we should be able to do it.

N. Motta
06-02-15, 3:04 pm
Great points Gun. Totally agree about the "easily attainable" comment. In my case, it's apples to oranges, but when I look at some of the male crossfit guys, that compete at a very high level, I honestly don't know if there is one aspect of the things that they do, that I could best them in. I'm a strength athlete. And while many in my "camp" and in the powerlifting world, will say that the crossfitters are content with being "mediocre at everything," a lot of us would be VERY humbled if we went head to head with them. And even more humbled when they destroy us in a 1 rep max of the squat or the dead. There's nothing easy about snatching 300 pounds over your head. And I don't think anyone that can do that, simply rolls out of bed and does it.

But to try and play devils advocate a bit; anyone that is involved in powerlifting at any kind of capacity, whether it be supervisory, organizer, meet director or high ranking member of any of the federations tries to say that they don't envy the HELL out of what crossfit has done and more importantly, the revenue it generates, is high as a fucking kite or simply lying through their teeth. That's all well and good if some of us blue collar knuckle draggers, say that we wouldn't want powerlifting to go mainstream like crossfit has. I could truly say that I kind of have that type of trait in my own personality, I like stuff that's a bit more "underground." I don't have any figures to back anything up, but I truly wonder if the combined overall revenue of the major powerlifting meets and worlds strongest man could even hold a torch to what the Crossfit Games generates. Money talks fellas, plain and simple. Always has and always will. Please tell me when a powerlifting event has sold out a 27,000 seat stadium. One figure I found said that in 2014, 209,000 people threw their names into the hat and registered online to begin competing to go through the required workouts to try and get into the games. Crossfit is fucking printing money folks. And then you have the hordes of vendors that have hitched their wagons to them. $$$$$$$$$$$$

The term "selling out" has always perplexed me a bit. As an example, anyone that can picture themselves in a garage band with their friends, playing different cities every night for 9 months on end. Living in a van reeking of piss and beer, making a couple hundred bucks a night. Working extremely hard at perfecting their craft, for the purpose of personal satisfaction and making the kind of music that earns you a huge following. To think that this band would simply turn down a 300 million dollar contract from a major record label, all in the name of not wanting to be, "a sell out." "Nah man, we like living in the piss van." Well that's just the stupidest fucking thing I could ever imagine.

Aggression
06-02-15, 3:56 pm
The term "selling out" has always perplexed me a bit. As an example, anyone that can picture themselves in a garage band with their friends, playing different cities every night for 9 months on end. Living in a van reeking of piss and beer, making a couple hundred bucks a night. Working extremely hard at perfecting their craft, for the purpose of personal satisfaction and making the kind of music that earns you a huge following. To think that this band would simply turn down a 300 million dollar contract from a major record label, all in the name of not wanting to be, "a sell out." "Nah man, we like living in the piss van." Well that's just the stupidest fucking thing I could ever imagine.

#preach

Can't disagree with anything you said.

naturalguy
06-02-15, 4:37 pm
Great points Gun. Totally agree about the "easily attainable" comment. In my case, it's apples to oranges, but when I look at some of the male crossfit guys, that compete at a very high level, I honestly don't know if there is one aspect of the things that they do, that I could best them in. I'm a strength athlete. And while many in my "camp" and in the powerlifting world, will say that the crossfitters are content with being "mediocre at everything," a lot of us would be VERY humbled if we went head to head with them. And even more humbled when they destroy us in a 1 rep max of the squat or the dead. There's nothing easy about snatching 300 pounds over your head. And I don't think anyone that can do that, simply rolls out of bed and does it.

But to try and play devils advocate a bit; anyone that is involved in powerlifting at any kind of capacity, whether it be supervisory, organizer, meet director or high ranking member of any of the federations tries to say that they don't envy the HELL out of what crossfit has done and more importantly, the revenue it generates, is high as a fucking kite or simply lying through their teeth. That's all well and good if some of us blue collar knuckle draggers, say that we wouldn't want powerlifting to go mainstream like crossfit has. I could truly say that I kind of have that type of trait in my own personality, I like stuff that's a bit more "underground." I don't have any figures to back anything up, but I truly wonder if the combined overall revenue of the major powerlifting meets and worlds strongest man could even hold a torch to what the Crossfit Games generates. Money talks fellas, plain and simple. Always has and always will. Please tell me when a powerlifting event has sold out a 27,000 seat stadium. One figure I found said that in 2014, 209,000 people threw their names into the hat and registered online to begin competing to go through the required workouts to try and get into the games. Crossfit is fucking printing money folks. And then you have the hordes of vendors that have hitched their wagons to them. $$$$$$$$$$$$

The term "selling out" has always perplexed me a bit. As an example, anyone that can picture themselves in a garage band with their friends, playing different cities every night for 9 months on end. Living in a van reeking of piss and beer, making a couple hundred bucks a night. Working extremely hard at perfecting their craft, for the purpose of personal satisfaction and making the kind of music that earns you a huge following. To think that this band would simply turn down a 300 million dollar contract from a major record label, all in the name of not wanting to be, "a sell out." "Nah man, we like living in the piss van." Well that's just the stupidest fucking thing I could ever imagine.


#preach

Can't disagree with anything you said.

That is a good point

GunRock
06-02-15, 6:20 pm
Just imagine a playoff system with RUM as "the Super Bowl" with weight classes set up tournament style with attempts being done in rounds, three lifters going at once. Second and third attempts called like poker bets. You either lift or fold. Finals done during day 2 and that's what gets televised. Consolation bracket for third.

intoodeep25
06-02-15, 7:23 pm
So your telling me that being at the top of the crossfit game is as difficult as being on the olympia stage, competing in worlds strongest man or squatting/deadlifting over 800, 900, 1,000 pounds or benching 500, 600, 700+? You dont think for one second that the average joe looks at crossfit as being something they could potentially do while those other things seem so far out of reach?

GunRock
06-02-15, 9:42 pm
So your telling me that being at the top of the crossfit game is as difficult as being on the olympia stage, competing in worlds strongest man or squatting/deadlifting over 800, 900, 1,000 pounds or benching 500, 600, 700+? You dont think for one second that the average joe looks at crossfit as being something they could potentially do while those other things seem so far out of reach?

Being on the Olympia stage is about politics. To compare powerlifting or strongman to CrossFit is more reasonable. On that note, I think the average CrossFitter thinks that elite Crossfit athletes get that way by doing CrossFit which is wrong. They spend time working on individual skills. That impression on the part of the average CrossFit joe is no more delusional than the guys who say that they know somebody in high school who benched/squatted/deadlifted more than Powerlifter X which you get on YouTube all of the time. As for whether or not it's actually attainable, Rich Froning's stats from 2014 are below. I don't know anybody average who can do that because at the end of the day, elite means elite. We don't call out basketball because every street ball "legend" thinks they could make it in the NBA do we? In fact as proof that it's not easily attainable is the rate at which people drop out of CrossFit gyms every month.

Height: 5'10
Weight: 190
Fran: 2:13 (previous 2:15) meaning he did 45 pullups and 45 clean to push presses with 95lbs in less than three minutes
Cindy: 31 rounds (in 20 minutes he did 155 pullups, 310 pushups and 465 squats) Grace: 1:11 (previous 1:30)
Helen: 8:58 he ran 1200 meters, did 63 kettlebell swings with a 52lb kettlebell and 36 pullups in less than ten minutes
Max Pull-ups: 75 (previous 55)
Fight Gone Bad: 508 I can't break this down any further than to say that BJ Penn who was at the top of the UFC for years gave it it's name by saying it was like a fight gone bad. You do:
1.. Wallball Shots: 20 pound ball, 10 ft target. (Reps)
2.. Sumo Deadlift High-Pull: 75 pounds (Reps)
3.. Box Jump: 20" box (Reps)
4.. Push Press: 75 pounds (Reps)
5.. Row: calories (Cal)
and get 1 point for each successful rep and 1 point per calorie on the rower.

Deadlift: 545 (previous 480) Bench: 335 (in 2012) Squat: 445 (previous 405)
Snatch: 300 (previous 235) Front squat: 375 Shoulder press: 205 Squat Clean: Clean: 152kg (335 lbs) (stat from March 2012) Clean and Jerk: 370 (previous 345)
Max Pull-ups: 75 (previous 55)

intoodeep25
06-02-15, 10:02 pm
Being on the Olympia stage is about politics. To compare powerlifting or strongman to CrossFit is more reasonable. On that note, I think the average CrossFitter thinks that elite Crossfit athletes get that way by doing CrossFit which is wrong. They spend time working on individual skills. That impression on the part of the average CrossFit joe is no more delusional than the guys who say that they know somebody in high school who benched/squatted/deadlifted more than Powerlifter X which you get on YouTube all of the time. As for whether or not it's actually attainable, Rich Froning's stats from 2014 are below. I don't know anybody average who can do that because at the end of the day, elite means elite. We don't call out basketball because every street ball "legend" thinks they could make it in the NBA do we? In fact as proof that it's not easily attainable is the rate at which people drop out of CrossFit gyms every month.

Height: 5'10
Weight: 190
Fran: 2:13 (previous 2:15) meaning he did 45 pullups and 45 clean to push presses with 95lbs in less than three minutes
Cindy: 31 rounds (in 20 minutes he did 155 pullups, 310 pushups and 465 squats) Grace: 1:11 (previous 1:30)
Helen: 8:58 he ran 1200 meters, did 63 kettlebell swings with a 52lb kettlebell and 36 pullups in less than ten minutes
Max Pull-ups: 75 (previous 55)
Fight Gone Bad: 508 I can't break this down any further than to say that BJ Penn who was at the top of the UFC for years gave it it's name by saying it was like a fight gone bad. You do:
1.. Wallball Shots: 20 pound ball, 10 ft target. (Reps)
2.. Sumo Deadlift High-Pull: 75 pounds (Reps)
3.. Box Jump: 20" box (Reps)
4.. Push Press: 75 pounds (Reps)
5.. Row: calories (Cal)
and get 1 point for each successful rep and 1 point per calorie on the rower.

Deadlift: 545 (previous 480) Bench: 335 (in 2012) Squat: 445 (previous 405)
Snatch: 300 (previous 235) Front squat: 375 Shoulder press: 205 Squat Clean: Clean: 152kg (335 lbs) (stat from March 2012) Clean and Jerk: 370 (previous 345)
Max Pull-ups: 75 (previous 55)

You dont get what I am trying to convey, you are choosing to focus on a part of the spectrum that im not even arguing. I never said the top guys arent impressive, I said that the sport in itself possesses acheivements that are more attainable to the average joe starting out than the other sub sections of our field. A guy sitting on his couch probably wouldnt watch worlds strongest man and say "I could see myself doing that" because those men are absolute freaks of nature and savages. Crossfit is much more relatable than bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman thus the draw it has created with soccer moms, wanna be fit guys and weekend warriors. Thats all im trying to say, the success of the sport has hinged on this imo. The top guys are great athletes, that isnt my argument...

GunRock
06-02-15, 10:05 pm
You dont get what I am trying to convey, you are choosing to focus on a part of the spectrum that im not even arguing. I never said the top guys arent impressive, I said that the sport in itself possesses acheivements that are more attainable to the average joe starting out than the other sub sections of our field. A guy sitting on his couch probably wouldnt watch worlds strongest man and say "I could see myself doing that" because those men are absolute freaks of nature and savages. Crossfit is much more relatable than bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman thus the draw it has created with soccer moms, wanna be fit guys and weekend warriors. Thats all im trying to say, the success of the sport has hinged on this imo. The top guys are great athletes, that isnt my argument...

Oh okay, I'll accept that. I think that it tends to attract more people who are into cardio vs strength as well which tends to feed into attracting more people than powerlifting. Whenever I try to get somebody into powerlifting, I have to convince them that they can do it whereas CrossFit probably doesn't have that hurdle. Instead I'd agree that you have people who say, "I'd like to do that" as opposed to "I could never do that".

What did you think of my powerlifting playoffs idea?

intoodeep25
06-02-15, 10:11 pm
Oh okay, I'll accept that. I think that it tends to attract more people who are into cardio vs strength as well which tends to feed into attracting more people than powerlifting. Whenever I try to get somebody into powerlifting, I have to convince them that they can do it whereas CrossFit probably doesn't have that hurdle. Instead I'd agree that you have people who say, "I'd like to do that" as opposed to "I could never do that".

What did you think of my powerlifting playoffs idea?

There needs to be something in place like that for sure. All the other big 3 we just mentioned have it (the olympia, wsm, crossfit games), it would be awesome to see all the big boys come together at one meet and compete head to head against each other. Who knows, maybe even bigger numbers would be hit when you had that many great lifters in the same arena at the same time. Everyone who does this is competitive to a certain degree, it would be interesting to see all the greats in one meet to battle it out.

Altered Beast
06-03-15, 9:51 am
That and you have to factor in that success with crossfit is so much more attainable. Anybody can do it. To have success in powerlifting or strongman or bodybuilding for most people it takes over a decade of hard work, serious nutrition and attention to other aspects such as recovery and sleep. Crossfit is that roll out of bed and go do it type of thing, it can be your first day and you can succeed and be good at it. It fits well with the right now culture that we unfortunately live in.

Yep, 92% of registered Crossfitters don't even compete in the games. That 92% want an intense workout in a group setting and kudos to them for choosing an athletic endeavor.


I don't think that competing at The Crossfit Games could ever be characterized as easily attainable. By contrast in powerlifting it's fairly easy to find a backyard organization to lift in and win a World title with little effort.
If powerlifting did what Strongman did we wouldn't be so fragmented. For that matter the NFL and NBA are the recognized organizations for their sports but were niche until someone got the marketing right. Many people enjoy football and basketball because they played at some point. Tons of people do the powerlifts but would rather watch strangers do Crossfit than go watch people they know compete. Why? Because we don't make it spectator friendly and design it so the best lifters compete.
If golf can do it, strongman can do it, NASCAR can do it, we should be able to do it.

I disagree 110% with of all of this.


Great points Gun. Totally agree about the "easily attainable" comment. In my case, it's apples to oranges, but when I look at some of the male crossfit guys, that compete at a very high level, I honestly don't know if there is one aspect of the things that they do, that I could best them in. I'm a strength athlete. And while many in my "camp" and in the powerlifting world, will say that the crossfitters are content with being "mediocre at everything," a lot of us would be VERY humbled if we went head to head with them. And even more humbled when they destroy us in a 1 rep max of the squat or the dead. There's nothing easy about snatching 300 pounds over your head. And I don't think anyone that can do that, simply rolls out of bed and does it.

But to try and play devils advocate a bit; anyone that is involved in powerlifting at any kind of capacity, whether it be supervisory, organizer, meet director or high ranking member of any of the federations tries to say that they don't envy the HELL out of what crossfit has done and more importantly, the revenue it generates, is high as a fucking kite or simply lying through their teeth. That's all well and good if some of us blue collar knuckle draggers, say that we wouldn't want powerlifting to go mainstream like crossfit has. I could truly say that I kind of have that type of trait in my own personality, I like stuff that's a bit more "underground." I don't have any figures to back anything up, but I truly wonder if the combined overall revenue of the major powerlifting meets and worlds strongest man could even hold a torch to what the Crossfit Games generates. Money talks fellas, plain and simple. Always has and always will. Please tell me when a powerlifting event has sold out a 27,000 seat stadium. One figure I found said that in 2014, 209,000 people threw their names into the hat and registered online to begin competing to go through the required workouts to try and get into the games. Crossfit is fucking printing money folks. And then you have the hordes of vendors that have hitched their wagons to them. $$$$$$$$$$$$

The term "selling out" has always perplexed me a bit. As an example, anyone that can picture themselves in a garage band with their friends, playing different cities every night for 9 months on end. Living in a van reeking of piss and beer, making a couple hundred bucks a night. Working extremely hard at perfecting their craft, for the purpose of personal satisfaction and making the kind of music that earns you a huge following. To think that this band would simply turn down a 300 million dollar contract from a major record label, all in the name of not wanting to be, "a sell out." "Nah man, we like living in the piss van." Well that's just the stupidest fucking thing I could ever imagine.

To your first paragrah, read the above comments. To the second paragraph, people don't get into strength sports to make money and we don't want the kind of corporate influence, government regulation and watered down pussification of our chosen sports for the sake of "making money". To the third paragraph, most artists have ZERO interest in selling their souls to a corporate contract. The few mediocre talented groups the industry throws at us are the leftovers of the true talent out there. They don't consider corporate money and control as "hip".

*If one wishes to make big money, they need to step out of their cubicle, work 80-90 hours a week and open their own business and grow it from the ground up. This quick buck lie needs to be squashed ASAP. One can make big money, its just going to take far more than 99.99% of humans are willing to give to earn it the right way.


You dont get what I am trying to convey, you are choosing to focus on a part of the spectrum that im not even arguing. I never said the top guys arent impressive, I said that the sport in itself possesses acheivements that are more attainable to the average joe starting out than the other sub sections of our field. A guy sitting on his couch probably wouldnt watch worlds strongest man and say "I could see myself doing that" because those men are absolute freaks of nature and savages. Crossfit is much more relatable than bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman thus the draw it has created with soccer moms, wanna be fit guys and weekend warriors. Thats all im trying to say, the success of the sport has hinged on this imo. The top guys are great athletes, that isnt my argument...

PREACH ON! I agree 110%. Like I said, 92% of registered Crossfitters have zero desire to compete in the Games as they only want an intense workout in a group setting.

G Diesel
06-03-15, 10:09 am
Who fucking cares about recognized federations and mainstream appeal?

Just lift weights for yourself. If you got into competitive lifting or bodybuilding for the money or accolades or recognition by regular folks, you picked the wrong endeavor breh.


Peace, G

Altered Beast
06-03-15, 10:11 am
Who fucking cares about recognized federations and mainstream appeal?

Just lift weights for yourself. If you got into competitive lifting or bodybuilding for the money or accolades or recognition by regular folks, you picked the wrong endeavor breh.


Peace, G

YES! Couldn't agree more with this.

G Diesel
06-03-15, 10:12 am
The term "selling out" has always perplexed me a bit. As an example, anyone that can picture themselves in a garage band with their friends, playing different cities every night for 9 months on end. Living in a van reeking of piss and beer, making a couple hundred bucks a night. Working extremely hard at perfecting their craft, for the purpose of personal satisfaction and making the kind of music that earns you a huge following. To think that this band would simply turn down a 300 million dollar contract from a major record label, all in the name of not wanting to be, "a sell out." "Nah man, we like living in the piss van." Well that's just the stupidest fucking thing I could ever imagine.

As for "selling out" that's a problem the most ambitious and talented among us only wish we had.

"Oh man, are my gifts so in demand that people will throw money at me and my lifestyle will change?" First world problems, for real.

I can't wait for these to be my existential dilemmas. "Am I too successful?" Haha.

To me, "selling out" means forgetting who you are and where you came from because you reached some moderate level of success. That's unacceptable.

But as for the strength sports ever being at a risk of losing their soul because they made a cash grab, I don't see that ever being a problem. I mean shit, they're already soulless and they're broke (NPC, many PL feds, etc.).

Peace, G

naturalguy
06-03-15, 10:18 am
Looks like I opened a can of worms by mentioning Crossfit, sorry bros I was just trying to make a point of how fragmented powerlifting was and how organized Crossfit is since they have one federation

Altered Beast
06-03-15, 12:02 pm
Looks like I opened a can of worms by mentioning Crossfit, sorry bros I was just trying to make a point of how fragmented powerlifting was and how organized Crossfit is since they have one federation

We are glad you did! It brings recognition to popular issues in Strength Sports.

I was hoping RUM or USPA would be the go to standard for Powerlifting as they both have the same rules and are stupidly strict on judging! Not sure why RUM isn't taking off.

da2ricky
06-03-15, 5:55 pm
testing...

intoodeep25
06-03-15, 7:53 pm
testing...

Why

GunRock
06-03-15, 9:35 pm
Looks like I opened a can of worms by mentioning Crossfit, sorry bros I was just trying to make a point of how fragmented powerlifting was and how organized Crossfit is since they have one federation

This Roundtable is like going to a barbershop on Saturday morning. Anything and everything is fair game and I agreed with the point you were trying to make.

GunRock
06-03-15, 10:09 pm
Who fucking cares about recognized federations and mainstream appeal?

Just lift weights for yourself. If you got into competitive lifting or bodybuilding for the money or accolades or recognition by regular folks, you picked the wrong endeavor breh.


Peace, G

I do and so do a lot of other competitive lifters. I'm not the first guy to bring up how fragmented powerlifting is. As far as lifting for accolades, this isn't even something I care about. My dream is to write and be paid for it. I lift weights because I enjoy it and I compete for the same reason people get into semi pro or flag football. But because I believe people should be able to make a living from their passions/gifts rather than be forced to pursue their dreams "part time" AND because as a fan, I'd like to see the best in the world compete head to head, I want powerlifting to change. Notice also that unlike most people who pitch a fit about how bad everything is, I proposed a solution which most of the posters in this thread haven't responded to.


As for "selling out" that's a problem the most ambitious and talented among us only wish we had.

"Oh man, are my gifts so in demand that people will throw money at me and my lifestyle will change?" First world problems, for real.

I can't wait for these to be my existential dilemmas. "Am I too successful?" Haha.

It's not a question of whether it's possible to get paid for what you're good at, people already do it. It's more about me thinking that my favorite lifters should be able to make a living from what they do, as much as guys can get paid for wearing tights and jumping from the top rope repeatedly or filming themselves getting tennis balls shot at their ballsack. There are people who make a living pretending to be somebody else for months at a time and we not only go watch them do it, but quote passages from these pretenses. Hell if your gift is identifying which kid has the best chance of putting a ball through a net successfully most often, you get people begging you to use that talent for them. You do have to be realistic about whether what you're good at is commercially marketable, but I think a HUGE part of this is that we have lied to our kids throughout school and told them that they should sideline their passions and get the jobs society thinks are important. Then if they're good little robots they can squirrel away time to embrace their dreams on the weekends or in the evenings after they've had their souls sucked dry at the factory or in a cubicle. And so we trail the countries where they take the approach that people should identify their talents early in life and get jobs in fields that they have a natural gifting in. In nearly every area that matters.



To me, "selling out" means forgetting who you are and where you came from because you reached some moderate level of success. That's unacceptable.

I agree completely G. Material circumstances can change in an eye blink. Who you are should be constant.



But as for the strength sports ever being at a risk of losing their soul because they made a cash grab, I don't see that ever being a problem. I mean shit, they're already soulless and they're broke (NPC, many PL feds, etc.).

So to bring it all back to the original question: If we accept that people squat, bench and deadlift in gyms across America every day, what would we need to do, so that they would enjoy watching somebody who's truly great at those lifts go up against somebody else who's truly great at those lifts? When that question is answered, not how to get people who don't like exercise in any form to watch, but how to interest the multitude of gym goers who watch YouTube vids of lifters in watching the actual meets, we'll be getting somewhere.

If we think it's always going to be the way it is, we're ignoring what Joe and Ben Weider did when they revolutionized the judging process in bodybuilding and made the Olympia matter more than the Mr. Universe which predated it. If we say that you'll never be able to make a living from lifting, we disagree with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jim Lorimer who in deciding to start the Arnold Classic, put pressure on the Olympia to up the prize money so that it was possible for the top guys to make decent money for standing on stage in their undies. If we say that it's too fragmented to ever accept a clear, single path from novice to top of the food chain, we ignore what the UFC did by making King of The Cage, World Series of Fighting, StrikeForce and Bellator no more than stepping stones on the way to the federation that matters and made the WEC and World Combat Championships die out.

Why can't powerlifting do the same? Why hasn't RUM taken off? My premise is that the established powerlifting format is boring for spectators. People like head to head action, clear winners, understandable rules. Promoters want their feds and meets to still matter. What I proposed in my earlier post is my way of addressing those issues. No feds have to go away, big meets become playoffs, local meets can be qualifiers to get into the playoffs. Local stuff will still be local stuff that everyone will know doesn't matter. If nothing changes, I'll still keep writing and lifting. But if it does change, maybe my kids or grandkids will have a new way to make a living.

As industry insiders and lifters, what do you all think of my idea?

G Diesel
06-04-15, 9:36 am
I do and so do a lot of other competitive lifters. I'm not the first guy to bring up how fragmented powerlifting is. As far as lifting for accolades, this isn't even something I care about. My dream is to write and be paid for it. I lift weights because I enjoy it and I compete for the same reason people get into semi pro or flag football. But because I believe people should be able to make a living from their passions/gifts rather than be forced to pursue their dreams "part time" AND because as a fan, I'd like to see the best in the world compete head to head, I want powerlifting to change. Notice also that unlike most people who pitch a fit about how bad everything is, I proposed a solution which most of the posters in this thread haven't responded to.



It's not a question of whether it's possible to get paid for what you're good at, people already do it. It's more about me thinking that my favorite lifters should be able to make a living from what they do, as much as guys can get paid for wearing tights and jumping from the top rope repeatedly or filming themselves getting tennis balls shot at their ballsack. There are people who make a living pretending to be somebody else for months at a time and we not only go watch them do it, but quote passages from these pretenses. Hell if your gift is identifying which kid has the best chance of putting a ball through a net successfully most often, you get people begging you to use that talent for them. You do have to be realistic about whether what you're good at is commercially marketable, but I think a HUGE part of this is that we have lied to our kids throughout school and told them that they should sideline their passions and get the jobs society thinks are important. Then if they're good little robots they can squirrel away time to embrace their dreams on the weekends or in the evenings after they've had their souls sucked dry at the factory or in a cubicle. And so we trail the countries where they take the approach that people should identify their talents early in life and get jobs in fields that they have a natural gifting in. In nearly every area that matters.




I agree completely G. Material circumstances can change in an eye blink. Who you are should be constant.




So to bring it all back to the original question: If we accept that people squat, bench and deadlift in gyms across America every day, what would we need to do, so that they would enjoy watching somebody who's truly great at those lifts go up against somebody else who's truly great at those lifts? When that question is answered, not how to get people who don't like exercise in any form to watch, but how to interest the multitude of gym goers who watch YouTube vids of lifters in watching the actual meets, we'll be getting somewhere.

If we think it's always going to be the way it is, we're ignoring what Joe and Ben Weider did when they revolutionized the judging process in bodybuilding and made the Olympia matter more than the Mr. Universe which predated it. If we say that you'll never be able to make a living from lifting, we disagree with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jim Lorimer who in deciding to start the Arnold Classic, put pressure on the Olympia to up the prize money so that it was possible for the top guys to make decent money for standing on stage in their undies. If we say that it's too fragmented to ever accept a clear, single path from novice to top of the food chain, we ignore what the UFC did by making King of The Cage, World Series of Fighting, StrikeForce and Bellator no more than stepping stones on the way to the federation that matters and made the WEC and World Combat Championships die out.

Why can't powerlifting do the same? Why hasn't RUM taken off? My premise is that the established powerlifting format is boring for spectators. People like head to head action, clear winners, understandable rules. Promoters want their feds and meets to still matter. What I proposed in my earlier post is my way of addressing those issues. No feds have to go away, big meets become playoffs, local meets can be qualifiers to get into the playoffs. Local stuff will still be local stuff that everyone will know doesn't matter. If nothing changes, I'll still keep writing and lifting. But if it does change, maybe my kids or grandkids will have a new way to make a living.

As industry insiders and lifters, what do you all think of my idea?

I have friends who powerlift on a high level, same thing for bodybuilding. And I have been training for more than half of my life and compete in PL every so often. But other than wanting to see my friends do well financially and have more opportunities, having the strength sports break into the mainstream doesn't change how I view our lifestyle whatsoever. I like that it is an underground subculture, and how every so often, someone who really "gets it" breaks on through to the other side--Arnold, The Rock, etc.

If you'll note how the Olympia being scheduled to air on NBCSN and then being pulled at the last second went down, you'll see there is real, tangible mainstream resistance to our subculture. And the drug issue doesn't help our cause.

I am nothing, if not an example of someone who has relentlessly pursued his passions and ambitious dreams, and continues to do so every day, his entire life. So of course I agree with what you're saying. But my point is that there are very few bodybuilders who make a good enough living directly from bodybuilding competitively (prize winnings/endorsements), and that goes double for powerlifters. However, the more motivated and savvy bbers and lifters have figured out how to use their gifts to open new doors and illuminate alternate means of generating revenue on the periphery of the lifestyle--training, coaching, owning a gym, diet and nutrition planning, supplement lines, clothing, gear, websites, etc. "Fitness" (I hate that word) is a very profitable industry, but the money isn't on the competitive side.

That said, I would have no problem with fewer federations, better or more consistent judging and some sort of playoff system. I've even conjured a Power Sport Circuit idea in the past. But ultimately, someone with passion and the big picture desire to improve the sport (beyond their own personal profit) would need to be at the helm of such a movement.

Peace, G

Altered Beast
06-04-15, 12:04 pm
I have friends who powerlift on a high level, same thing for bodybuilding. And I have been training for more than half of my life and compete in PL every so often. But other than wanting to see my friends do well financially and have more opportunities, having the strength sports break into the mainstream doesn't change how I view our lifestyle whatsoever. I like that it is an underground subculture, and how every so often, someone who really "gets it" breaks on through to the other side--Arnold, The Rock, etc.

If you'll note how the Olympia being scheduled to air on NBCSN and then being pulled at the last second went down, you'll see there is real, tangible mainstream resistance to our subculture. And the drug issue doesn't help our cause.

I am nothing, if not an example of someone who has relentlessly pursued his passions and ambitious dreams, and continues to do so every day, his entire life. So of course I agree with what you're saying. But my point is that there are very few bodybuilders who make a good enough living directly from bodybuilding competitively (prize winnings/endorsements), and that goes double for powerlifters. However, the more motivated and savvy bbers and lifters have figured out how to use their gifts to open new doors and illuminate alternate means of generating revenue on the periphery of the lifestyle--training, coaching, owning a gym, diet and nutrition planning, supplement lines, clothing, gear, websites, etc. "Fitness" (I hate that word) is a very profitable industry, but the money isn't on the competitive side.

That said, I would have no problem with fewer federations, better or more consistent judging and some sort of playoff system. I've even conjured a Power Sport Circuit idea in the past. But ultimately, someone with passion and the big picture desire to improve the sport (beyond their own personal profit) would need to be at the helm of such a movement.

Peace, G

I agree 110%.


So to bring it all back to the original question: If we accept that people squat, bench and deadlift in gyms across America every day, what would we need to do, so that they would enjoy watching somebody who's truly great at those lifts go up against somebody else who's truly great at those lifts? When that question is answered, not how to get people who don't like exercise in any form to watch, but how to interest the multitude of gym goers who watch YouTube vids of lifters in watching the actual meets, we'll be getting somewhere.

If we think it's always going to be the way it is, we're ignoring what Joe and Ben Weider did when they revolutionized the judging process in bodybuilding and made the Olympia matter more than the Mr. Universe which predated it. If we say that you'll never be able to make a living from lifting, we disagree with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jim Lorimer who in deciding to start the Arnold Classic, put pressure on the Olympia to up the prize money so that it was possible for the top guys to make decent money for standing on stage in their undies. If we say that it's too fragmented to ever accept a clear, single path from novice to top of the food chain, we ignore what the UFC did by making King of The Cage, World Series of Fighting, StrikeForce and Bellator no more than stepping stones on the way to the federation that matters and made the WEC and World Combat Championships die out.

Why can't powerlifting do the same? Why hasn't RUM taken off? My premise is that the established powerlifting format is boring for spectators. People like head to head action, clear winners, understandable rules. Promoters want their feds and meets to still matter. What I proposed in my earlier post is my way of addressing those issues. No feds have to go away, big meets become playoffs, local meets can be qualifiers to get into the playoffs. Local stuff will still be local stuff that everyone will know doesn't matter. If nothing changes, I'll still keep writing and lifting. But if it does change, maybe my kids or grandkids will have a new way to make a living.

As industry insiders and lifters, what do you all think of my idea?

You're still not getting it. Powerlifting WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED by the mainstream nor do I care for it to. Squat, Bench and Deadlift are boring to watch unless it's record breaking weight. The masses don't understand how we train and only see us hitting a Single Rep Max on Meet day. Strongman, Crossfit, etc have a variety of different events that keep people interested. Our sport is more simple and focused on Pure Maximal Strength as it should.

If every lifter/wanna be lifter or whatever wants Powerlifting to change, than everyone needs to shut the fuck up about "making money" or "making Powerlifting more profitable" and just lift and be happy. If lifters would honestly keep their damn mouths shut on all levels of social media and offline, the sport would blossom to the highest possible level it could as a subculture sport. Until than, it's the same old bullshit, which I constantly ignore and laugh my head off about. Honestly how boring is your life if you bitch about Powerlifting? Of all things to be that worried about, not one's faith, family or job, "No dudebro! Powerlifting is like too fragmented brah!" Seriously, GET A DAMN LIFE!

*To be quite honest, the only bitching I ever hear or see is on social media. Everyone at a meet is super supportive whether they lift Raw, Raw with Wraps, Single or Multi-Ply. What's even more funny is it's the wanna be lifters or fitness *****s that are simply keyboard Powerlifters who bitch the most. Unfortunately the masses lead meaningless and boring lives; otherwise, why would one care that much?

**I'm a bit intense because I'm passionate, these comments are not directed at anyone in particular as I speak in generalities.

N. Motta
06-04-15, 3:03 pm
Despite your passive aggressive post script, it's pretty obvious who you're talking to. I've noticed that that's kind of your thing. Being from the, 'great state of Texas,' I would've thought you'd have the stones to just come out and speak directly.

Feel free to scroll back and look at my post that included, "...to play devils advocate..." I also added that I prefer to be involved in things that are not quite as mainstream.

I personally lift in my garage, by myself, 4 days a week. And given my personality, I really wouldn't want it any other way. I honestly could not care less about the financial growth, success or stability of any powerlifting federation or Crossfit. No matter what they do or what political debates may rage on through social media, it doesn't change what I do. I've got my weights, my bars and my solidarity. I'll continue to gain inspiration from many athletes, all in different subcultures of weight lifting and strength training. And I'll be sure to maintain my rep of a, "wannabe lifter & a keyboard powerlifter."

G Diesel
06-04-15, 3:21 pm
And I'll be sure to maintain my rep of a, "wannabe lifter & a keyboard powerlifter."

Hey fuck it man, to some that might technically be a higher level of status than mine. Haha.

Peace, G

intoodeep25
06-04-15, 5:31 pm
One of the great things about the forum is that its a place where serious lifters can have good conversations about the thing we love without bickering and bs. Lets keep it that way. We come here to learn and grow as lifters and lift eachother up.

GunRock
06-04-15, 7:13 pm
You're still not getting it. Powerlifting WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED by the mainstream nor do I care for it to. Squat, Bench and Deadlift are boring to watch unless it's record breaking weight. The masses don't understand how we train and only see us hitting a Single Rep Max on Meet day. Strongman, Crossfit, etc have a variety of different events that keep people interested. Our sport is more simple and focused on Pure Maximal Strength as it should.

Actually I I get what you're trying to say. You don't accept what I'm saying: namely that we need to get the segment of the population that is already into powerlifting, the segment that looks up vids on YouTube to be interested enough to watch the entire meet. I'm suggesting we accomplish that by way of a format change that allows you to watch just the weight classes you're interested in seeing and seeing those guys go head to head. That speeds things up AND lets you check out once they're done. I lifted in a local USAPL charity meet last year and rather than everybody doing their three attempts in squat from lightest weights up to heaviest, then doing the same thing with bench and deadlift, they paired three weight classes together to make each flight. That flight then did all their squats, all their bench attempts and all of their deadlifts. So people who were there to support specific lifters were able to come just during the time period that those lifters were competing. The competitors from the previous flights stuck around to cheer the current flight on but their spectators were able to leave if they wanted to.


If every lifter/wanna be lifter or whatever wants Powerlifting to change, than everyone needs to shut the fuck up about "making money" or "making Powerlifting more profitable" and just lift and be happy. If lifters would honestly keep their damn mouths shut on all levels of social media and offline, the sport would blossom to the highest possible level it could as a subculture sport. Until than, it's the same old bullshit, which I constantly ignore and laugh my head off about. Honestly how boring is your life if you bitch about Powerlifting? Of all things to be that worried about, not one's faith, family or job, "No dudebro! Powerlifting is like too fragmented brah!" Seriously, GET A DAMN LIFE!
I don't see how you can love something but not want to improve it and not speak out when it's being done wrong.


*To be quite honest, the only bitching I ever hear or see is on social media. Everyone at a meet is super supportive whether they lift Raw, Raw with Wraps, Single or Multi-Ply. What's even more funny is it's the wanna be lifters or fitness *****s that are simply keyboard Powerlifters who bitch the most. Unfortunately the masses lead meaningless and boring lives; otherwise, why would one care that much?
I just heard Adrian Larsen bring it up on an episode of Chalk Talk and he's definitely NOT a wanna be lifter. Before that, I interviewed Steve Goggins for Power Magazine and one of the things he brought up is that there are too many federations. He felt that RUM was a step in the right direction but that more needs to be done. Steve Goggins is also NOT a wannabe, so when a legend and a current world record holder are interested enough to talk about it, who are we to say that they're wrong?


**I'm a bit intense because I'm passionate, these comments are not directed at anyone in particular as I speak in generalities.
Like I said earlier, this thread is like a barbershop on Saturday morning. We've all got opinions that we're passionate about. If you decide to jump in the fray, you better have a thick enough skin to handle the barrage coming back at you. I appreciate you saying that but you don't bother me. My skin is steel hard like Luke Cage, so we can argue and still all be play cousins if I run across you in a different thread.

It bugged me more when I thought that G. Diesel was saying we should accept the status quo, I was like "NOOOO, not The Madman!" I felt like when I found out that Santa Claus is dead. Glad he corrected my misunderstanding though.

GunRock
06-04-15, 7:17 pm
I have friends who powerlift on a high level, same thing for bodybuilding. And I have been training for more than half of my life and compete in PL every so often. But other than wanting to see my friends do well financially and have more opportunities, having the strength sports break into the mainstream doesn't change how I view our lifestyle whatsoever. I like that it is an underground subculture, and how every so often, someone who really "gets it" breaks on through to the other side--Arnold, The Rock, etc.

If you'll note how the Olympia being scheduled to air on NBCSN and then being pulled at the last second went down, you'll see there is real, tangible mainstream resistance to our subculture. And the drug issue doesn't help our cause.

I am nothing, if not an example of someone who has relentlessly pursued his passions and ambitious dreams, and continues to do so every day, his entire life. So of course I agree with what you're saying. But my point is that there are very few bodybuilders who make a good enough living directly from bodybuilding competitively (prize winnings/endorsements), and that goes double for powerlifters. However, the more motivated and savvy bbers and lifters have figured out how to use their gifts to open new doors and illuminate alternate means of generating revenue on the periphery of the lifestyle--training, coaching, owning a gym, diet and nutrition planning, supplement lines, clothing, gear, websites, etc. "Fitness" (I hate that word) is a very profitable industry, but the money isn't on the competitive side.

That said, I would have no problem with fewer federations, better or more consistent judging and some sort of playoff system. I've even conjured a Power Sport Circuit idea in the past. But ultimately, someone with passion and the big picture desire to improve the sport (beyond their own personal profit) would need to be at the helm of such a movement.

Peace, G

G. I'm glad you cleared this up. I was under the impression that you were saying we should just lie down and accept the status quo which I thought was WAAAY out of character from meeting you and reading your writing over the years.
I think you're dead on that what powerlifting would need is somebody who could transcend the sport. Honestly Louie Simmons had the potential to do that but is too polarizing a figure. He's one of the most recognizable names to people who only peripherally know the sport. Ed Coan or maybe Mark Bell could, they both have stated their concerns with the current state of the sport but Ed Coan says he's shy and Mark Bell obviously has a HUGE financial stake in this so it may not work out if he were to try.

Good points.

GunRock
06-04-15, 7:22 pm
Despite your passive aggressive post script, it's pretty obvious who you're talking to. I've noticed that that's kind of your thing. Being from the, 'great state of Texas,' I would've thought you'd have the stones to just come out and speak directly.

Feel free to scroll back and look at my post that included, "...to play devils advocate..." I also added that I prefer to be involved in things that are not quite as mainstream.

I personally lift in my garage, by myself, 4 days a week. And given my personality, I really wouldn't want it any other way. I honestly could not care less about the financial growth, success or stability of any powerlifting federation or Crossfit. No matter what they do or what political debates may rage on through social media, it doesn't change what I do. I've got my weights, my bars and my solidarity. I'll continue to gain inspiration from many athletes, all in different subcultures of weight lifting and strength training. And I'll be sure to maintain my rep of a, "wannabe lifter & a keyboard powerlifter."

Garage gym life is where it's at. Probably why I spend time thinking about this sort of stuff 'cause my interaction with other lifters happens at meets and through The Animal Barbell Club. You and Altered Beast have beef from way back, I've seen you two get into it more than once. Don't let the grenade I threw into this room start a battle that gets either one of you banned. Utah needs it's ABC Coordinator and a Centurion level Forvm member obviously has a ton invested in this Iron Family. I'm getting out of the middle of this now.

Be easy Brother.

GunRock
06-04-15, 7:23 pm
Looks like I opened a can of worms by mentioning Crossfit, sorry bros I was just trying to make a point of how fragmented powerlifting was and how organized Crossfit is since they have one federation

Trouble maker.

N. Motta
06-04-15, 9:37 pm
You and Altered Beast have beef from way back, I've seen you two get into it more than once.

I don't remember anything other than differing opinions and some ball busting. To have beef with someone, I have to care about them. No disrespect to Brian, but I'm indifferent to him. He does things his way and has very strong opinions. I have strong opinions too sometimes.

I was just saying my peace.

Altered Beast
06-05-15, 11:40 am
Despite your passive aggressive post script, it's pretty obvious who you're talking to. I've noticed that that's kind of your thing. Being from the, 'great state of Texas,' I would've thought you'd have the stones to just come out and speak directly.

Feel free to scroll back and look at my post that included, "...to play devils advocate..." I also added that I prefer to be involved in things that are not quite as mainstream.

I personally lift in my garage, by myself, 4 days a week. And given my personality, I really wouldn't want it any other way. I honestly could not care less about the financial growth, success or stability of any powerlifting federation or Crossfit. No matter what they do or what political debates may rage on through social media, it doesn't change what I do. I've got my weights, my bars and my solidarity. I'll continue to gain inspiration from many athletes, all in different subcultures of weight lifting and strength training. And I'll be sure to maintain my rep of a, "wannabe lifter & a keyboard powerlifter."

You flatter yourself. If anything, it was directed at Gunrock. Due to my speaking in generalities to make a point, it was not directed at you or anyone else whatsoever.

Nice try though =)

*We are more alike than you think, I've created my own Warehouse Gym out of a Storage Unit and I wouldn't have it any other way as well!


I don't remember anything other than differing opinions and some ball busting. To have beef with someone, I have to care about them. No disrespect to Brian, but I'm indifferent to him. He does things his way and has very strong opinions. I have strong opinions too sometimes.

I was just saying my peace.

Woah! How do you know my name?

There is no beef my friend, never was. We all just stand up for what we believe and that is what I absolutely love about the FORVM. Real men having real discussions, no fluff!


Garage gym life is where it's at. Probably why I spend time thinking about this sort of stuff 'cause my interaction with other lifters happens at meets and through The Animal Barbell Club. You and Altered Beast have beef from way back, I've seen you two get into it more than once. Don't let the grenade I threw into this room start a battle that gets either one of you banned. Utah needs it's ABC Coordinator and a Centurion level Forvm member obviously has a ton invested in this Iron Family. I'm getting out of the middle of this now.

Be easy Brother.

No beef my friend, never was. Our opinions just differ on the subject. No clue why NMotta took that as I was directing anything towards him.

*My ultimate point is if everyone focused on lifting and being happy, the sport would grow like crazy. This Fed is better than that Fed, wraps are gear compared to knee sleeves, blah blah frickin blah! That is the stuff I take issue with as it is destructive to Strength Sports. Strength Sports are such a tiny community, they all should support each other and since Powerlifting is regarded as the ultimate Strength Sport, we should go above and beyond to set the example.

N. Motta
06-05-15, 5:28 pm
You flatter yourself. If anything, it was directed at Gunrock. Due to my speaking in generalities to make a point, it was not directed at you or anyone else whatsoever.

Nice try though =)

*We are more alike than you think, I've created my own Warehouse Gym out of a Storage Unit and I wouldn't have it any other way as well!

It appears I may have been a little vain. I apologize.

I still think that song is about me though.


Woah! How do you know my name?

While trying to piece together my lost memory, I think I may have been a field operative for a government agency or something. Treadstone? Blackbriar? Pamely Landy? I've already said too much.

Your Youtube channel duder.

Altered Beast
06-08-15, 10:05 am
It appears I may have been a little vain. I apologize.

I still think that song is about me though.

While trying to piece together my lost memory, I think I may have been a field operative for a government agency or something. Treadstone? Blackbriar? Pamely Landy? I've already said too much.

Your Youtube channel duder.

Song?

LOL! I should have known better.

Hunger for Glory
06-19-15, 12:39 pm
I have always enjoyed the extras of this awesome webpage but this year i have seen no upgrade of the calendar.Are you guys gonna post it or no? I am just saying it would be very cool to print,you know?

Altered Beast
06-22-15, 10:07 am
I have always enjoyed the extras of this awesome webpage but this year i have seen no upgrade of the calendar.Are you guys gonna post it or no? I am just saying it would be very cool to print,you know?

I'm wondering when the new flavor of Juiced Aminos will be available on BB.com =)

Nix0r
06-22-15, 10:14 am
I'm wondering when the new flavor of Juiced Aminos will be available on BB.com =)

It's available at DPS, which has worked out just as well for all of my orders to date: http://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/18126/universal-animal-juiced-aminos-orange-30-servings.htm

And yes, don't read the full URL too much. It'll take you to the Strawberry Limeade page.

Altered Beast
06-22-15, 10:26 am
It's available at DPS, which has worked out just as well for all of my orders to date: http://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/18126/universal-animal-juiced-aminos-orange-30-servings.htm

And yes, don't read the full URL too much. It'll take you to the Strawberry Limeade page.

Thanks, Steve!

N. Motta
02-08-17, 8:02 am
To whom it may concern

Have gotten a half dozen private messages from some member "chuyennha."

All filled with unreadable text, code, bullshit, whatever.

rynoisbeast
02-08-17, 8:28 am
To whom it may concern

Have gotten a half dozen private messages from some member "chuyennha."

All filled with unreadable text, code, bullshit, whatever.

I also got one and I can't get on the profile.

npcdusty
02-08-17, 10:50 am
Got one today as well. Def Spam


I also got one and I can't get on the profile.

deanna7272
02-08-17, 11:06 am
To whom it may concern

Have gotten a half dozen private messages from some member "chuyennha."

All filled with unreadable text, code, bullshit, whatever.

Yep, got them also...

Altered Beast
02-08-17, 11:45 am
Sounds like a very sub par hacker.

Nix0r
02-08-17, 12:16 pm
To whom it may concern

Have gotten a half dozen private messages from some member "chuyennha."

All filled with unreadable text, code, bullshit, whatever.


I also got one and I can't get on the profile.


Got one today as well. Def Spam


Yep, got them also...


Sounds like a very sub par hacker.

I don't see this person in the Member's List anymore, so he's most likely been nuked. If someone wants to forward me that PM, I can see if there is anything else I can find.

-Nix

rynoisbeast
02-08-17, 1:07 pm
I don't see this person in the Member's List anymore, so he's most likely been nuked. If someone wants to forward me that PM, I can see if there is anything else I can find.

-Nix

Just forwarded it to you

Nix0r
02-08-17, 1:29 pm
Just forwarded it to you

Sweet. Looks like we deleted the account.

freighttraindane
02-08-17, 1:42 pm
Sweet. Looks like we deleted the account.

#BanHammerEnforced

spartan300
02-08-17, 1:45 pm
Must be one of Putin's 😎

Altered Beast
02-09-17, 10:13 am
Just forwarded it to you

As did I. Got a couple of emails from "Cheyunnah" last night.

N. Motta
02-09-17, 9:10 pm
Got two more from chuyennha today. Be nice if someone could block this bullshit.

LayzieBone085
02-10-17, 7:48 pm
To whom it may concern

Have gotten a half dozen private messages from some member "chuyennha."

All filled with unreadable text, code, bullshit, whatever.




Saw the PM
did not even open just deleted..
Damn spammers.

Aggression
02-15-17, 10:41 am
Someone needs to drop the ..


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/724/ban_hammer.jpg?1257015625

Nix0r
02-15-17, 11:37 am
Someone needs to drop the ..


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/724/ban_hammer.jpg?1257015625

I'm getting the ball rolling on this.