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MR. C
03-27-15, 7:28 am
Simple question!

Overhand or underhand BB ROWS?
Why?

zubda345
03-27-15, 8:46 am
I believe it comes down to what suits you more...

For me, I used to do overhand, but now I do underhand, cause they suit me better and I feel like my Back is being hit more than it was in the overhand rows + my grips also last more when doing the underhand, and my arms have been my weakpoint and underhand also gives a little more strain to the biceps.


It's trial and error, see what suits you more...

Aggression
03-27-15, 8:57 am
Simple question!

Overhand or underhand BB ROWS?
Why?


I believe it comes down to what suits you more...

For me, I used to do overhand, but now I do underhand, cause they suit me better and I feel like my Back is being hit more than it was in the overhand rows + my grips also last more when doing the underhand, and my arms have been my weakpoint and underhand also gives a little more strain to the biceps.


It's trial and error, see what suits you more...

My man zubda has come a long way since he first landed here on the Forvm. I agree with him. Try both and do what you feel is best. Alternate each week is another way to go.

Cellardweller
03-27-15, 2:18 pm
I feel overhand hits upper back and rear delts more while underhand hits more in the middle lats. Why not do both? Superset them for a good time.

MR. C
03-27-15, 7:43 pm
Thanks for the advice. I like the superset idea.

Jay Nera
03-30-15, 12:07 am
Neutral grip is not an option as well??

Jeppeehh
03-30-15, 10:05 am
I just finished a few weeks of bent db rows to change it up after overhand bb rows.

Not only is it a variation of the bent free weight rows but I also used a neutral grip. Plan is to try some underhand bb rows now. I definitely feel a difference on how the rows hit my back depending on what grip I choose.

Neutral grip must be my favorite. Feeling no stress or pain in my wrists/forearms which can occur during underhand grip but it also hits my back more evenly. I have a tendency to "lose it" and feel it more in the rear delts instead during heavier rows with overhand grip.

Using them all should have it's benefits.

johnt
03-30-15, 3:22 pm
When ever I do over hand BB Rows, my wrist curls over the bar and I feel I use too much bicep. Maybe I need to widen my grip.

Machine
04-01-15, 7:15 pm
When ever I do over hand BB Rows, my wrist curls over the bar and I feel I use too much bicep. Maybe I need to widen my grip.

Drop them from your routine; there is no one movement that an athlete cannot do without, I am not convinced that rows of any variety are the holy grail of back development. I know, I know...I'll get the Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Lee Haney crowd all miffed on this one...but I must digress. Those guys got to the dance...take away BB rows and they'd still be in the winner's circle.

By the time people get done fucking around with grips, overhand vs. underhand, wide vs. narrow...and all the rest of it, I could have trained a fucking regiment in that time. It's not worth the time to perfect, and just about everyone I've ever seen doing rows can neither maximize the contraction or control the negative to any reasonable degree. Where the lack of absolute belief in a movement threatens the supremacy of the overall plan...the movement must be substituted without delay.

My opinion, good luck.

MACHINE

jack3d14
04-06-15, 2:26 pm
I believe it comes down to what suits you more...

For me, I used to do overhand, but now I do underhand, cause they suit me better and I feel like my Back is being hit more than it was in the overhand rows + my grips also last more when doing the underhand, and my arms have been my weakpoint and underhand also gives a little more strain to the biceps.


It's trial and error, see what suits you more...


+ 1

try them both out and see how you like it. I notice I hit my lats more when I do overhand but with underhand I feel more in the middle of back and my biceps.

sgerwel1985
04-07-15, 10:37 am
Drop them from your routine; there is no one movement that an athlete cannot do without, I am not convinced that rows of any variety are the holy grail of back development. I know, I know...I'll get the Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Lee Haney crowd all miffed on this one...but I must digress. Those guys got to the dance...take away BB rows and they'd still be in the winner's circle.

By the time people get done fucking around with grips, overhand vs. underhand, wide vs. narrow...and all the rest of it, I could have trained a fucking regiment in that time. It's not worth the time to perfect, and just about everyone I've ever seen doing rows can neither maximize the contraction or control the negative to any reasonable degree. Where the lack of absolute belief in a movement threatens the supremacy of the overall plan...the movement must be substituted without delay.

My opinion, good luck.

MACHINE

Was wondering what you'd view as an all around good back routine? For me, it's really one of the hardest areas for me to "hit hard" and really feel.

Machine
04-07-15, 4:11 pm
Was wondering what you'd view as an all around good back routine? For me, it's really one of the hardest areas for me to "hit hard" and really feel.

Love to, only, as soon as I do someone will post up a message that says...dude, buddy, bro, man, dude...you need to do X, Y, Z...and make sure you do them on the third Thursday of every month with a sour gumball up your ass, and turn your head to the right and scream mamajama...etc. etc. etc.

I'll try it anyway because that situation is not your fault; just remember my advice is predicated on my position that there is no perfect exercise routine, I will always stress the how over the what.

Respectfully, do not get caught up in the search for the "perfect training routine" order of exercises, sets, reps, scheme, split, etc. etc. Every time you touch a barbell or a dumbbell could be your last...get everything out of any and every set. If you get absolutely everything you can out of one set, you will scarcely find that you need 6 additional sets of that same movement. If you performed just 1 set each of say, 5 different back movements, and after some time, you found that produced significant development, why would you ever increase the volume from that point. Do people do that to be "hardcore?" Economy of training has to enter into it at some point.

I'd love to live in a world where an athlete was asked to outline his/her regimen and then stated "I perform 2 sets of reverse grip pull-downs because I know it takes exactly 2 sets to stimulate growth"...but trust me, no one can say that definitively, which is why people emulate what they see instead of staying behind their eyes, and being themselves. At some point in the conversation, the best athlete in the world will not be able to give you a reason for everything he/she does...not in most cases. He/she will need to simply admit that they do it that way because they saw it, or heard it, or read it, or were taught to do it that way...but they'll act as if they invented the wheel.

I say let experience be the teacher; create norms which resonate with you and no one else. Function under the following guidelines:

- Negatives are more important than contractions - properly elongate the muscles of the back as you train - so get ready to cut your training weights significantly.

- Contractions are more important than training poundage -properly contract the muscles of the back and hold it - stop throwing weight up and down.

- Poundage is more important than volume - lift "heavy" weight properly and learn to direct effort/intensity at every set you perform, no extras, and no leftovers.

- Volume is surplus to negatives, contractions, and poundage - there are two kinds of people, those who carry "enough" ammunition, and those who carry 15 magazines and three different weapons. One bullet is a lifetime supply for the motherfucker it hits - adopt a less is more approach.

- Intensity is paramount and cannot be leveraged by any of the above - Learn what true training intensity is, it cannot be bought, stolen, faked, or taught.

- Large movements come last - deadlifts for example, end with a high effort move.

- Elbows, Rib-cage, Shoulders - Exercise posture is vital, rib-cage up, no rounding, shoulders tight and neutral, elbow control and downward force allow complete contraction - not the hands/pulling. Athletes who can elongate without losing exercise posture, and contract the muscles of the back without pulling the shit out of everything will have superior back development - period.

The most important factors are technique, intensity, and self-belief, these will take you far. When I reference intensity, I don't mean "high intensity techniques" I mean getting the most out of straight sets first. Intensity techniques can come later; master the movements and drop movements which interfere with your plan, it's of little consequence whether or not you perform lat pull-downs on a machine or with a cable. If you include 30 different movements in your routine, but you cannot generate proper torque, then you're shitting in your mess kit.

...as far as a back routine, take mine from this morning:

Reverse Grip Pull-downs
Seated Low Rows
Cybex Machine Rows
One Arm DBell Rows
Barbell Rows
DBell Pullovers
Rack Pulls
Good Mornings
Superman DBell Hypers
Modified Hanging Shrugs

You better implement this shit because it takes a long time to post

Good Luck

MACHINE

ironbound
04-07-15, 4:34 pm
Machine,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. One question: Why do you recommend doing the big lifts last?

Also, the sour gum ball thing did not work and now I have to change gyms.

Machine
04-07-15, 4:46 pm
Machine,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. One question: Why do you recommend doing the big lifts last?

Also, the sour gum ball thing did not work and now I have to change gyms.

AAHHHHH!!! Awesome return serve on the gumball remark!

I recommend them last so athletes resist the urge to chase numbers when they are fresh at the beginning of the session...this is the time when everyone is brave. It's more of a psychological precaution than it is an athletic purpose. I'm sure there are a million other people who'd recommend the opposite.

MACHINE

ironbound
04-07-15, 4:54 pm
Makes sense. Definitely one way to avoid injuries. Thanks.

MR. C
04-07-15, 5:52 pm
I guess it's like preexhausting the muscle. Great idea.

C

JHOORNSTRA
04-13-15, 10:48 pm
man do I miss reading Machine's answers, always make me laugh...how ya been man?

Machine
04-14-15, 9:38 pm
man do I miss reading Machine's answers, always make me laugh...how ya been man?

I'm well thanks, still around, still displeased, still trying to shake things up.How have you been?

DirtMcGirt
12-05-15, 12:40 am
Had to revive this one from the depths... an instant classic. So much good info


Love to, only, as soon as I do someone will post up a message that says...dude, buddy, bro, man, dude...you need to do X, Y, Z...and make sure you do them on the third Thursday of every month with a sour gumball up your ass, and turn your head to the right and scream mamajama...etc. etc. etc.

I'll try it anyway because that situation is not your fault; just remember my advice is predicated on my position that there is no perfect exercise routine, I will always stress the how over the what.

Respectfully, do not get caught up in the search for the "perfect training routine" order of exercises, sets, reps, scheme, split, etc. etc. Every time you touch a barbell or a dumbbell could be your last...get everything out of any and every set. If you get absolutely everything you can out of one set, you will scarcely find that you need 6 additional sets of that same movement. If you performed just 1 set each of say, 5 different back movements, and after some time, you found that produced significant development, why would you ever increase the volume from that point. Do people do that to be "hardcore?" Economy of training has to enter into it at some point.

I'd love to live in a world where an athlete was asked to outline his/her regimen and then stated "I perform 2 sets of reverse grip pull-downs because I know it takes exactly 2 sets to stimulate growth"...but trust me, no one can say that definitively, which is why people emulate what they see instead of staying behind their eyes, and being themselves. At some point in the conversation, the best athlete in the world will not be able to give you a reason for everything he/she does...not in most cases. He/she will need to simply admit that they do it that way because they saw it, or heard it, or read it, or were taught to do it that way...but they'll act as if they invented the wheel.

I say let experience be the teacher; create norms which resonate with you and no one else. Function under the following guidelines:

- Negatives are more important than contractions - properly elongate the muscles of the back as you train - so get ready to cut your training weights significantly.

- Contractions are more important than training poundage -properly contract the muscles of the back and hold it - stop throwing weight up and down.

- Poundage is more important than volume - lift "heavy" weight properly and learn to direct effort/intensity at every set you perform, no extras, and no leftovers.

- Volume is surplus to negatives, contractions, and poundage - there are two kinds of people, those who carry "enough" ammunition, and those who carry 15 magazines and three different weapons. One bullet is a lifetime supply for the motherfucker it hits - adopt a less is more approach.

- Intensity is paramount and cannot be leveraged by any of the above - Learn what true training intensity is, it cannot be bought, stolen, faked, or taught.

- Large movements come last - deadlifts for example, end with a high effort move.

- Elbows, Rib-cage, Shoulders - Exercise posture is vital, rib-cage up, no rounding, shoulders tight and neutral, elbow control and downward force allow complete contraction - not the hands/pulling. Athletes who can elongate without losing exercise posture, and contract the muscles of the back without pulling the shit out of everything will have superior back development - period.

The most important factors are technique, intensity, and self-belief, these will take you far. When I reference intensity, I don't mean "high intensity techniques" I mean getting the most out of straight sets first. Intensity techniques can come later; master the movements and drop movements which interfere with your plan, it's of little consequence whether or not you perform lat pull-downs on a machine or with a cable. If you include 30 different movements in your routine, but you cannot generate proper torque, then you're shitting in your mess kit.

...as far as a back routine, take mine from this morning:

Reverse Grip Pull-downs
Seated Low Rows
Cybex Machine Rows
One Arm DBell Rows
Barbell Rows
DBell Pullovers
Rack Pulls
Good Mornings
Superman DBell Hypers
Modified Hanging Shrugs

You better implement this shit because it takes a long time to post

Good Luck

MACHINE

Aggression
12-05-15, 5:08 pm
Had to revive this one from the depths... an instant classic. So much good info

niCely done. Deservingly so.

KDbeepbeep
12-07-15, 2:36 pm
Had to revive this one from the depths... an instant classic. So much good info


awesome info, thank you!

skibasgym
12-13-15, 4:55 pm
I alternate between over and under. I do overhand which is the natural grip. I do underhand which hits the lower lats harder.

Rex
12-19-15, 6:07 pm
Simple question!

Overhand or underhand BB ROWS?
Why?

For me, overhand about shoulder width. If I want to use an underhand grip I opt for the EZ curl bar.

skibasgym
12-20-15, 5:08 pm
AAHHHHH!!! Awesome return serve on the gumball remark!

I recommend them last so athletes resist the urge to chase numbers when they are fresh at the beginning of the session...this is the time when everyone is brave. It's more of a psychological precaution than it is an athletic purpose. I'm sure there are a million other people who'd recommend the opposite.

MACHINE

Great advice!