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View Full Version : Drop The Movement...Don't Be Scared



Machine
04-05-15, 9:01 pm
I've framed this comment from a piece of advice I gave someone for BB Rows; I really believe that this issue can provide important context for a discussion which many athletes need to have.

Weightlifters are far too linear; they obsessively track:

Training poundages
Sets within a session
Repetitions per set
Exercises which comprise the session
Order of exercises within the session

...and on and on and on.

All these are tracked to a seriously counterproductive degree. Yet they don't see fit to limit session length or drop unproductive movements at all. I see this as emulation paralysis; just because Johnny Badass does X, Y, Z in his/her routine does not sanctify those movements within your athletic framework...weightlifting is not a catechism.

Drop exercises which do not allow for effective performance of repetitions from your routine immediately; there is no one movement that an athlete cannot do without (especially if you're not formally competing). For example, take BB Rows, I am not convinced that rows of any variety are the holy grail of back development. I know I know...I'll get the Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Lee Haney crowd all miffed on this one...but I must digress. Those guys got to the dance...take away BB rows and they'd still be in the winner's circle.

By the time people get done fucking around with grips, overhand vs. underhand, wide vs. narrow...and all the rest of it, I could have trained a fucking regiment in that time. It's not worth the time to perfect, and just about everyone I've ever seen doing rows can neither maximize the contraction nor control the negative to any reasonable degree. We as weightlifters (however you see yourself) are highly susceptible to confirmation bias; we attribute our success with specific movements or mechanical formulations. Athlete has well developed Biceps; he/she attributes that to an exact prescriptive method. But how will he/she know which movement, or stress, or position created the whole of the development? And which movement is surplus to the total plan? The tough truth is that he/she would have developed good Biceps with any movement, or combination of movements, or stress.

I’ve said it before and I’ll scream it again…Where the lack of absolute belief in a movement threatens the supremacy of the overall plan...the movement must be substituted without delay.

If there were only 4 days in a week, would you still be able to train your body? If there were only 2 movements to train the biceps, would there be no 21" arms?

MACHINE

Cellardweller
04-08-15, 2:16 pm
I agree and disagree with this. For an experienced lifter I totally agree with you. If you don't know what works for you by the time you reach an intermediate level, then trim the fat. On the other hand, not everyone hits the gym like it's a special ops mission. Like you say, most of us aren't pros or sponsered so what does it matter? If you want to master something or just find out what it can do or not do for you then you need to expermiment. The FORVM is a place for discussion and learning OUTSIDE of the gym. This is the time and place to talk. Standing around in the gym for 20 minutes talking about what to do with your hands is a waste of time. Planning and preparation have its place.

Machine
04-08-15, 7:08 pm
I agree and disagree with this. For an experienced lifter I totally agree with you. If you don't know what works for you by the time you reach an intermediate level, then trim the fat. On the other hand, not everyone hits the gym like it's a special ops mission. Like you say, most of us aren't pros or sponsered so what does it matter? If you want to master something or just find out what it can do or not do for you then you need to expermiment. The FORVM is a place for discussion and learning OUTSIDE of the gym. This is the time and place to talk. Standing around in the gym for 20 minutes talking about what to do with your hands is a waste of time. Planning and preparation have its place.

I agree and disagree with your assertion. I'm not gauging experience, or qualifying anyone's training, I'm aligning what I hear people stating as a goal or benchmark with what I consider to be self-evident. Intermediate level, sponsored, pro...I don't understand the significance of those terms. I never walked into a gym to be any of those things. I wanted to radically transform my body absent limitations. I am trying to demonstrate the mind-frame I used to do those things. I think understanding my approach will help people get somewhere they've never been.

Co-opting, or adopting the approach of others is not optimal when there is such a wide disconnect between you and whomever is on the cover of the latest ass-rag. I want to work with people who know who and where they are...not pseudo-experts who know everything but talk like dreamers with no outcomes.

It's about outcomes and pushing yourself to be something different than you were yesterday.

I mean no disrespect, and I know I seem contrary, but I thank God everyday that I don't think like anyone else.

MACHINE

Cellardweller
04-09-15, 12:05 pm
I wanted to radically transform my body absent limitations. I am trying to demonstrate the mind-frame I used to do those things. I think understanding my approach will help people get somewhere they've never been.

MACHINE

I totally understand this. Personally, everytime you post something I find myself reevaluating my own methods. I have learned alot, mostly about myself, since you've returned. My point was that everyone has a learning curve. Some of us are in different places along the line. Learning how to perform each implement is at the begining. I'm not advocating any kind of program or following anyone else's sets and reps.

Jay Nera
06-30-15, 12:40 am
I've framed this comment from a piece of advice I gave someone for BB Rows; I really believe that this issue can provide important context for a discussion which many athletes need to have.

Weightlifters are far too linear; they obsessively track:

Training poundages
Sets within a session
Repetitions per set
Exercises which comprise the session
Order of exercises within the session

...and on and on and on.

All these are tracked to a seriously counterproductive degree. Yet they don't see fit to limit session length or drop unproductive movements at all. I see this as emulation paralysis; just because Johnny Badass does X, Y, Z in his/her routine does not sanctify those movements within your athletic framework...weightlifting is not a catechism.

Drop exercises which do not allow for effective performance of repetitions from your routine immediately; there is no one movement that an athlete cannot do without (especially if you're not formally competing). For example, take BB Rows, I am not convinced that rows of any variety are the holy grail of back development. I know I know...I'll get the Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates, and Lee Haney crowd all miffed on this one...but I must digress. Those guys got to the dance...take away BB rows and they'd still be in the winner's circle.

By the time people get done fucking around with grips, overhand vs. underhand, wide vs. narrow...and all the rest of it, I could have trained a fucking regiment in that time. It's not worth the time to perfect, and just about everyone I've ever seen doing rows can neither maximize the contraction nor control the negative to any reasonable degree. We as weightlifters (however you see yourself) are highly susceptible to confirmation bias; we attribute our success with specific movements or mechanical formulations. Athlete has well developed Biceps; he/she attributes that to an exact prescriptive method. But how will he/she know which movement, or stress, or position created the whole of the development? And which movement is surplus to the total plan? The tough truth is that he/she would have developed good Biceps with any movement, or combination of movements, or stress.

I’ve said it before and I’ll scream it again…Where the lack of absolute belief in a movement threatens the supremacy of the overall plan...the movement must be substituted without delay.

If there were only 4 days in a week, would you still be able to train your body? If there were only 2 movements to train the biceps, would there be no 21" arms?

MACHINE

haha. I wonder if you would get bored of my training sessions. I use very few movements in my training. squat bench deadlift…squat bench deadlift…haha