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Orthodox
12-30-15, 3:33 pm
You know i those days of Arnold. Those days brought so much to bodybuilding but that left us also with a terrible curse. In those days the greatest of lies was born. Im talking about that day Joe Weider got himself a tub full of powdered milk and eggs, and slapped a picture of Arnold Schwarzenegger in the front and called it Protein powered! and from then on that shits sold like hotcakes. In that day he bottled a dream which in truth was a lie. Well not for supplement companies anyway. Its no longer a dream, its become reality as their bank balances go sky high. Yep right right up to moon and stars ah? The same place these young placid, naive little kids look to in this sport, when they wishing on a star.

So i come along, who was once that young little kid, and imma tell you the truth. Cause i don't want you to be sold a lie, to live out your youth as i have done, searching for something that cannot be found. Why not? The supplement industry is a million dollar industry, every body's getting rich other than you. In that tub is not the key. You will not find any chicken breast, fish, whole egg or meat. Only lies and bullshit. What protein powder should i buy? It doesn't matter Cause their all same. They all cine from the same place. The only thing whats different is the picture on the front.

I know your eager to grow but there is no quick way other than to cook your food and eat it. Day after day, till your days turn to years. Turning to that 'Dream in the bottle' will end bad for you. You will only make your self broke and end up broken hearted. Never EVER drift away from SOLID FOOD, i pray you. If you don't believe me...

Ask one of the PRO'S on here... Ask them why they never use protein shakes when getting ready for a show? Ask them and if their loyalty is with you then hey will tell you...

Thanks guys and Journey Well

Nmowery
12-31-15, 12:30 am
The supplement industry is a billion dollar industry

Fixed that for ya

And honestly, I have to say that your assessment of protein powders extends to most supplements that are sold by most companies. The formula seems to be to find a 300 lb ifbb pro whose pumped full of anabolics, slap his pic all over, and tell the world that a few scoops of your secret powder will give you the same results. It's a ginormous bullshit parade, and one that too many people - self included - have been suckered into for far too long.

That said...whey shakes can be pretty damn convenient. I get a 30 min lunch and two 10 min breaks in my work day, and being able to grab a shaker cup and chug down a scoop of something makes life a lot easier sometimes.

Orthodox
12-31-15, 1:03 am
Fixed that for ya

And honestly, I have to say that your assessment of protein powders extends to most supplements that are sold by most companies. The formula seems to be to find a 300 lb ifbb pro whose pumped full of anabolics, slap his pic all over, and tell the world that a few scoops of your secret powder will give you the same results. It's a ginormous bullshit parade, and one that too many people - self included - have been suckered into for far too long.

That said...whey shakes can be pretty damn convenient. I get a 30 min lunch and two 10 min breaks in my work day, and being able to grab a shaker cup and chug down a scoop of something makes life a lot easier sometimes.

'Fixed that for ya'... lol. Thanks buddy your deffo closer.

Look those who know me in here know how i feel about protein/weight gain powders. Hence why I never post in this section. My beef is with thise supplements that claim they can replace food. Not so much Animal products as Animal create PACKS... These packs can add you in your training/recovery etc. Nothing wrong with that. I am someone who has always got my protein requirement from solid food. That has never been easy bro. Im 300 lbs and i have always for pretty much 20 years, over eat protein. Norm, 1000 grms of protein aday. Spread over say10 meals, 100 grams per meal. When i was in prison i use to pay £1 (roughyly $0.80) for a just one can of tuna. Which only cost £0.45 in the shop. Why? Cause i did what i had to do to keep up with my meals in there. I did this 10 times aday for 4 years. You do the math. '30 mins' is more than enough time to chew a piece of chicken or fish bro. Lol. There is no such thing as convenience when building a body, theres one way, the only way, which is through blood, sweat and tears over, many, many days of your life.

As G Diesel once said..." Never ever give up! Its just around the corner.."

Journey well

Cellardweller
12-31-15, 7:56 am
First off, I agree that food is king. But I disagree with everything else. Supplement companies are making money off me? So is everyone else. Should I quit the gym because someone is making money off my dues? So what if some bodybuilder's pic is on the tub. Nike puts basketball players all over their stuff. It's how it's done. And don't look down on someone cause they're drinking a shake. Maybe you or someone else has their food game down but has to juice to get an edge. Whey won't wreck your body but juice will and it can get you banned from your sport. How is that better?

Orthodox
12-31-15, 8:38 am
First off, I agree that food is king. But I disagree with everything else. Supplement companies are making money off me? So is everyone else. Should I quit the gym because someone is making money off my dues? So what if some bodybuilder's pic is on the tub. Nike puts basketball players all over their stuff. It's how it's done. And don't look down on someone cause they're drinking a shake. Maybe you or someone else has their food game down but has to juice to get an edge. Whey won't wreck your body but juice will and it can get you banned from your sport. How is that better?

Peace to you

It matters to me wether kids are exploited. I feel extremely deep about the youth of today and especially those in this sport. For me its all about the kids. Ive done my time. Seen it all. Men the gym, die right in front of me, ive also seen a kid walk in the gym 8stone half dead and 2 years latter he walks out reborn. Just because something is how it is dosent mean we half to except it. Things can be done to change, and it starts with discussions like this. Discussions most pros feel uncomfortable speaking about. I know why? I have friends at pro level, national and ameture. I have the right to talk in these matters my friend. I personally have been approached by do many sup companies over tge years but my heart is to pure to thiscwsy of life that i hold so dear to me.

A lie is a lie cellerdweller. Doesn't matter how big or small. Whst you discribe has nothing to do with building a body. You merely speak off marketing etc. this has nothing to with building a body bro. This is centred around men who are making money off of people building a body. I care for the youth of the wellfate of this sport and let me tell you.. Budybuilding is in great danger. The future is looking bleek. Why? Cause there is hardly any youth? Unless we inject more youth this sport will surley die out. Sup companies are a very big part of the reason why. Their greed is suffocating this sport at a grass roots level. They have become like a dictatorship, dictating what infomation is printed in those wonderful mags i use to collectcand read as a child. They are selling lies requarding growth. If i sold crack to kids is mycreason acceptable, to say well if i didnt do it, someone else would!

Im shocked to hear you speak un such a manner bro

Journey well

Cellardweller
12-31-15, 8:52 am
I get you Ortho. The problem is that a manly image isn't popular. Kids want to be skinny with abs. Even in movies action heroes are small compared to Arnold's day.

rainman
01-01-16, 9:06 am
My take is that supplements are just that - a way to supplement your diet. They are also convenient. Some of us don't have the luxury of being able to sit and eat for 10 odd minutes, however many times a day. When I was on shift patterns that were haywire, I couldn't get to work then eat straight away, so had a shake with oats, peanut butter and milk when I got in. Most of the time I can eat whole food meals now, but will always have a protein powder kicking about to drop in to a shake before bed or for when I am on the go.
Also, you can't really bunch companies in as 'all the same'. They use the same basic ingredients, agreed, (probably from the same few sources), but some companies are more stand up than others. Universal have always given back to the industry, have never been linked with any spiking of their products and don't wave flash cars and the like about on their Instagram pages. I work in the motor trade and I've seen some amazing things from some forecourts around my way. Every industry has people out to make money and I can guarantee that you will always pay for a service, but I don't feel I am being led any more of a lie than when buying a Blu-Ray for example.
You do raise some good points, but I feel that the problems in the bodybuilding don't lie within the supplement industry. It's down to the people that think they are owed a body like a pro without putting in the groundwork.


I get you Ortho. The problem is that a manly image isn't popular. Kids want to be skinny with abs. Even in movies action heroes are small compared to Arnold's day.
Quoted to highlight the point in my last paragraph.

Cellardweller
01-01-16, 12:32 pm
The desire to build your body needs to be up front or nothing is gonna happen. If anything supp companies are helping by saying "this could be you..." The problem is education. Ironicly, today everyone has the world's knowledge in their pocket but when you look around the gym no one knows what they're doing. If they aren't interested in learning to use the implements right then they probably aren't interested in learning nutrition either. This is where it's important for all of us to be good role models and open to discussion when approached in the gym.

I apologize if I offended anyone in my previous post.

Orthodox
01-01-16, 12:43 pm
The desire to build your body needs to be up front or nothing is gonna happen. If anything supp companies are helping by saying "this could be you..." The problem is education. Ironicly, today everyone has the world's knowledge in their pocket but when you look around the gym no one knows what they're doing. If they aren't interested in learning to use the implements right then they probably aren't interested in learning nutrition either. This is where it's important for all of us to be good role models and open to discussion when approached in the gym.

I apologize if I offended anyone in my previous post.

Offend? No my friend. The points in your previous post was valid. You are a man of knowledge so i am honoured to hear your words. What you gave just said is very true. The desire has to be there and more importantly, it has to come from within.

Journey well

Nmowery
01-01-16, 1:03 pm
Yea definitely nothing to get offended about here

Also, don't take my previous post to mean that i take issue with all supplement companies and their marketing - I mean hell, look at the site we're conversating on.

That said, it just seems like a lot of companies out there are being pretty predatory in their practices. This isn't anything new, and it isn't isolated to the fitness or supplement industries. I just find it kind of disheartening to see people forking over tons of their hard earned cash, trying to find that secret combo of supps that will give them the gains they're looking for, when it's just not happening. In no way am I discounting those tried and true supps that help give that extra bit of edge...but cmon, all the creatine and whey in the world isn't gonna turn you into Phil Heath.

That's also why I have more respect for animal than most other companies. while I wouldn't say that they cater specifically to those who use illegal supplements, it's always seemed to me that they embrace the real world in which we live in...they understand that some people are gonna take things to the absolute limit, and are willing to create products that support those kinds of efforts. While I've never used any anabolics in my life, I appreciate the fact that animal doesn't beat around that bush.

Orthodox
01-01-16, 1:08 pm
My take is that supplements are just that - a way to supplement your diet. They are also convenient. Some of us don't have the luxury of being able to sit and eat for 10 odd minutes, however many times a day. When I was on shift patterns that were haywire, I couldn't get to work then eat straight away, so had a shake with oats, peanut butter and milk when I got in. Most of the time I can eat whole food meals now, but will always have a protein powder kicking about to drop in to a shake before bed or for when I am on the go.
Also, you can't really bunch companies in as 'all the same'. They use the same basic ingredients, agreed, (probably from the same few sources), but some companies are more stand up than others. Universal have always given back to the industry, have never been linked with any spiking of their products and don't wave flash cars and the like about on their Instagram pages. I work in the motor trade and I've seen some amazing things from some forecourts around my way. Every industry has people out to make money and I can guarantee that you will always pay for a service, but I don't feel I am being led any more of a lie than when buying a Blu-Ray for example.
You do raise some good points, but I feel that the problems in the bodybuilding don't lie within the supplement industry. It's down to the people that think they are owed a body like a pro without putting in the groundwork.


Quoted to highlight the point in my last paragraph.

Peace to you Rainman

Wow xmas was quite in surrey. Lol non existent init.

Right, you mad a mistake there my friend...at the begging of your post, ine too many oeople believe, hence the main reason why i started this thread. You said that supplements are there to supplement your diet....!!!!
No friend. Your some who has been sold this lie. Youve bought. Out of your own mouth you have confirmed this. You cant supplement FOOD bro. Thats the point. That is to imply that you can in some what replace. Theres only one thing that carries the value of a chicken breast and that's called another chicken breast. Lol you cant compare a powder full of cheap collourings, flavours and mass sugar loads with that of a Chicken otherwise a hen would be laying tubs of powder. Lmao k im getting silly now but irs madness bro. Yougave bought into this lie. Not just financially but also mentally. Which of course is what these companies bank on. They can sleep soundly cause they know (as you have just said) that when things get abit hectic, your going to result to them.

Let me ask you something. If your that busy to where you gotta reach for that Shake and you knew you was going too as its part of your routine in entering work. Why dudnt you just blend up a real Chicken breast. Your drinking that shake for convinence yeah, time? Blended up chicken breast goes down the hatch just as fast plus its both purer and cheaper. Infact once again... The solid food is the better option. Its actually more convinent bro.
Journey well

Jay
01-02-16, 4:40 pm
I could care less about who is on the label, my number one concern with a supplement is whether or not it will help support my goals. Example : I don't like coffee. I work midnight shifts. I find Rage helps enhance my energy without side effects to energize me for a workout. If there's a day I can't get in a whole food meal I'll go for a shake. Not everyday, or several times a day. It's Simple enough and I'm sorry but blending up a chicken breast just doesn't sound appealing.

Orthodox
01-03-16, 1:58 am
I could care less about who is on the label, my number one concern with a supplement is whether or not it will help support my goals. Example : I don't like coffee. I work midnight shifts. I find Rage helps enhance my energy without side effects to energize me for a workout. If there's a day I can't get in a whole food meal I'll go for a shake. Not everyday, or several times a day. It's Simple enough and I'm sorry but blending up a chicken breast just doesn't sound appealing.

Peace to you Jay

2 points. First... You used the word 'APPEALING'. In the world of bodybuilding and building a body, Such a word dosent exist bro. I shouldnt and it cant cause its dangerous, you canend up using it to jusify not doing something as you have done just now. Its a mercy pill a cope out. Is it Apealing to wake up at 4am and do cardio for 1 hr? Or to have to now drop your carbs from this to next to nothing in order to cutter up, near on to the point where you camt even get out of bed to do that 1hr cardio but your cant lay there either cause your so hungry? Is it aapealing for a teen fresh inbthis game to not go out on the weekend with friends for drinks but instead turn his phone off and get himself to bed early PM? Nothing in bodybuilding is appealing mate. You do what you do what ever it takes bro. 1000%.

2nd point... Like every one else who has answered so far you have got loat in the term 'Supplement'. This is why i started this thread cause my hopes is to help FREE people from this form of mental /physical SLAVERY. Especially the youth. I dont want them, WONT have them born into this kind of bitter bondage whete they are spendin there hard earned money in this bullshit when it could be saved for their future home and family.

Listen to the reason you just gave for using a socaled protein shake instead of plaining head and eatting solid food... You used a PRE WORKOUT as in Rage( which is gtreat) to justify replacing a meal bro. What had using a preworkout for energy got to do with SOLID FOOD and GROWTH? Im asking you why you having replaced your proven to work meal with nothing. Although your brain has told your body is something. Youve gone from eating a solid meal which has worked since the dawn if time. It dosent have anything to prove, and your more than willing to swall SUGAR and other HARMFULL chemicals. These shakes harming your body bro hence the Bloated feeling follwed by farts. Thats your body telling you its gotta get this shit out. Lol and your not listening.

Your reason is is also not valid you take protien shakes because its EASY which in the world of bodybuilding is fucking unacceptable bro. There is no easy way. Im so tired of people wearing Animal Shirts claiming to br hardcore yet when face with an obsticle like time.. They look for the easy road. Why cause i wear The same Tshirt bro and that deffo aint me.

Journey well

Orthodox
01-03-16, 2:15 am
Next.... Lol

Is there no one else who can stand before me and sincerely justify replacing there Solid meal? Without sounding weak and weeping out..." Cause its easy!"

Ah..? My can of Tuna Vs your Shake of sugar.

I need to get my boy Rich Pianna on this thread. He'd finish ya lol

Journey well

Swolepez
01-03-16, 10:02 am
Next.... Lol

Is there no one else who can stand before me and sincerely justify replacing there Solid meal? Without sounding weak and weeping out..." Cause its easy!"

Ah..? My can of Tuna Vs your Shake of sugar.

I need to get my boy Rich Pianna on this thread. He'd finish ya lol

Journey well

Orthodox,

I agree... And disagree...

I agree, that most companies are out to make a quick buck and don't care about the consumer. Hence all the bullshit advertisements and promoting supps that honestly don't do much for you or I. Shit, now you can hardly buy a protein powder without wondering if what's ON the bottle is really IN the bottle. Hence, the protein spiking scandals going on these days.
Let us all be honest: Hitting your daily caloric and macro needs day-in-and-day-out + a solid training program + rest and recovery = ALL YOU TRULY NEED TO REACH WHAT YOU'RE CAPABLE OF.
I also agree that when trying to lean out or to "cut" for a show that whole food proteins are ideal bc: 1) again, you know what you're getting when you look at the label and 2) whole food proteins will keep you more satiated compared to powdered protein. BUT protein powder is what you want to talk about when there are many other supps and ingredients out there that won do shit in most healthy/active adults?

I disagree with protein powder being "an easy way out".
You're telling me that Frank McGrath, who has been shown on numerous occasions now to making his protein drinks (Gaining recipe and birthday recipe) w/ Animal Whey and even has a flavor named after him is taking the easy way out!??
Are you telling me that the vids of Roman Fritz making his summer Strawberry shake (using whey protein) means that he is taking the easy way out!?
Or what about Dan Boss Green or Gunz who during Supplement Simplicity videos both share protein powders that they keep in their arsenal? are they talking the easy way out too??
What about Ox during the Hard Facts vid? When he stated how he used Carbo Plus (powder supp) with 1/2 Gatorade? Is that taking the easy way out?
Or new Animal Athlete Vincenzoe? Who is 300lbs at 22 yrs old? He takes protein powder...is he taking the easy way out??
Or what about the 5 Animal athletes in this vid below?? I understand that they don't drink these exact protein recipes everyday but when they do: are they taking the easy way out??
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AzC4qfBiNTA

And what about the company Animal itself?? They sell and market Whey protein and a Mass Gainer.... Are you saying that Animal is a company that promotes "taking the easy way out" just bc shakes can be convenient and they sell them? Is Animal no longer hardcore? Are you saying that Animal is part of the problem? You do know that protein powder is powdered food right? Has calories like food. Has protein like food. Has carbs like food. Has fats like food. It's a powdered food. It's nothing special or magical but it's also nothing to be hated or treated like the plague.

Let's be real, most people on this Forvm have a 40plus hr job + a spouse + kid(s). Training or bodybuilding is not the only item in their life. Those (not calling anybody out) who can afford to body build without any other responsibilities (job, meetings, kids + their school related functions, keeping up in marriage, etc) are the ones who have it "convenient".
For example, I have a friend who is a IFBB pro and competed 6x last year and it cost them no less than $6000. They did this while completing their degree, working and making their own meals every day. On top of that, they worked a 40hr per wk UNPAID internship this summer. And now has a 40hr job lined up + pays for their own gym fees. They also have a significant other (so they still make time for a relationship) and bought their own vehicle. <---- All at the age of 23. That's successful, that's hardcore, that's called working and earning what you get. Oh but wait! This friend also has a protein shake at least 1x per day.. so I guess they are taking the way way out huh?

This same friend knows of another IFBB pro who trains where we live who has a free gym, has the owners of said gym pay AND cook their meals for them. Are you telling me that just bc my friend has a protein shake at least 1x per day is taking the easy way out compared to someone else who has everything layed out and done for them?
I respect someone who has all the above responsibilities ^^^^ but still manages to keep their personal dream alive whether or not they drink a protein shake or not.


AND if we're really worried about the kids then why lie about the "enhancements" that most if not all of the IFBB pros they look up to take??? But, I don't care to go there....

And you do know Rich Piana has a powdered supplement out right??

This not a attack and your a good man so I don't believe you will take it as such but This is just a way to make you think: what does it really mean to be hardcore or take the easy way out just bc someone has powdered food..


Again, don't get me wrong, I think most of the supps out there are bullshit or at the very least: over-hyped. And I know most companies are out to get a quick buck, esp from these new and up-coming kids...but protein powder is not one of them

rainman
01-03-16, 12:50 pm
Next.... Lol

Is there no one else who can stand before me and sincerely justify replacing there Solid meal? Without sounding weak and weeping out..." Cause its easy!"

Ah..? My can of Tuna Vs your Shake of sugar.

I need to get my boy Rich Pianna on this thread. He'd finish ya lol

Journey well

Guess I'll be next then, after your reply to me earlier. This is in no way meant to be an attack, as I feel that this thread brings up some great points, the contributions have all been first rate and you have handled your arguments well. However, you pulled me up on a couple of points; the terms supplements and convenience. I would like to address this.

Firstly, I am not naive about what a supplement is or what it represents. A protein powder will not be comparable to a chicken breast in the same way that Animal Pak will not be comparable to a whole dialled diet, full of micronutrients and vitamins. The thing is, sometimes it is not possible to get everything in. This is where I feel that protein powders fit in. I get the majority, if not all my protein needs, from whole foods. I've just been to Sainsburys actually and it works out cheaper to buy kilo bags of turkey, beef mince and eggs over powders. I have the luxury of time. In the past, I have not.

I will still use powders from reputable companies like Universal from time to time simply for the second point. Convenience. A scoop of powder is convenient in a hectic lifestyle. My mind boggles at your eating habits. 1000g protein? 10 odd meals? With no powders? Apart from the fact that it seems more than what any human can digest, you really have the time to sit down and eat all that food and let it go down? Because on my 45 hour shifts I used to do, I sure as hell didn't. People cite 'making the time', but this sometimes isn't practical. I'd make minced beef wraps and eat hard boiled eggs, but shakes still had their place.

I also wouldn't imagine that Rich Piano dude bringing in anything constructive to this thread. All output from him that I have stumbed across seems detrimental to the reputation of bodybuilding.

Orthodox
01-03-16, 2:32 pm
Orthodox,

I agree... And disagree...

I agree, that most companies are out to make a quick buck and don't care about the consumer. Hence all the bullshit advertisements and promoting supps that honestly don't do much for you or I. Shit, now you can hardly buy a protein powder without wondering if what's ON the bottle is really IN the bottle. Hence, the protein spiking scandals going on these days.
Let us all be honest: Hitting your daily caloric and macro needs day-in-and-day-out + a solid training program + rest and recovery = ALL YOU TRULY NEED TO REACH WHAT YOU'RE CAPABLE OF.
I also agree that when trying to lean out or to "cut" for a show that whole food proteins are ideal bc: 1) again, you know what you're getting when you look at the label and 2) whole food proteins will keep you more satiated compared to powdered protein. BUT protein powder is what you want to talk about when there are many other supps and ingredients out there that won do shit in most healthy/active adults?

I disagree with protein powder being "an easy way out".
You're telling me that Frank McGrath, who has been shown on numerous occasions now to making his protein drinks (Gaining recipe and birthday recipe) w/ Animal Whey and even has a flavor named after him is taking the easy way out!??
Are you telling me that the vids of Roman Fritz making his summer Strawberry shake (using whey protein) means that he is taking the easy way out!?
Or what about Dan Boss Green or Gunz who during Supplement Simplicity videos both share protein powders that they keep in their arsenal? are they talking the easy way out too??
What about Ox during the Hard Facts vid? When he stated how he used Carbo Plus (powder supp) with 1/2 Gatorade? Is that taking the easy way out?
Or new Animal Athlete Vincenzoe? Who is 300lbs at 22 yrs old? He takes protein powder...is he taking the easy way out??
Or what about the 5 Animal athletes in this vid below?? I understand that they don't drink these exact protein recipes everyday but when they do: are they taking the easy way out??
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AzC4qfBiNTA

And what about the company Animal itself?? They sell and market Whey protein and a Mass Gainer.... Are you saying that Animal is a company that promotes "taking the easy way out" just bc shakes can be convenient and they sell them? Is Animal no longer hardcore? Are you saying that Animal is part of the problem? You do know that protein powder is powdered food right? Has calories like food. Has protein like food. Has carbs like food. Has fats like food. It's a powdered food. It's nothing special or magical but it's also nothing to be hated or treated like the plague.

Let's be real, most people on this Forvm have a 40plus hr job + a spouse + kid(s). Training or bodybuilding is not the only item in their life. Those (not calling anybody out) who can afford to body build without any other responsibilities (job, meetings, kids + their school related functions, keeping up in marriage, etc) are the ones who have it "convenient".
For example, I have a friend who is a IFBB pro and competed 6x last year and it cost them no less than $6000. They did this while completing their degree, working and making their own meals every day. On top of that, they worked a 40hr per wk UNPAID internship this summer. And now has a 40hr job lined up + pays for their own gym fees. They also have a significant other (so they still make time for a relationship) and bought their own vehicle. <---- All at the age of 23. That's successful, that's hardcore, that's called working and earning what you get. Oh but wait! This friend also has a protein shake at least 1x per day.. so I guess they are taking the way way out huh?

This same friend knows of another IFBB pro who trains where we live who has a free gym, has the owners of said gym pay AND cook their meals for them. Are you telling me that just bc my friend has a protein shake at least 1x per day is taking the easy way out compared to someone else who has everything layed out and done for them?
I respect someone who has all the above responsibilities ^^^^ but still manages to keep their personal dream alive whether or not they drink a protein shake or not.


AND if we're really worried about the kids then why lie about the "enhancements" that most if not all of the IFBB pros they look up to take??? But, I don't care to go there....

And you do know Rich Piana has a powdered supplement out right??

This not a attack and your a good man so I don't believe you will take it as such but This is just a way to make you think: what does it really mean to be hardcore or take the easy way out just bc someone has powdered food..


Again, don't get me wrong, I think most of the supps out there are bullshit or at the very least: over-hyped. And I know most companies are out to get a quick buck, esp from these new and up-coming kids...but protein powder is not one of them

Peace to you my friend

Long time no? No i take no offence ive been talking about this fir 20+ years and accessional someone is honest. Im telling that these Animal athlletes who i respect great also, may use powders now cause their sponsered too. If they didn't and clamed to the that would be advertising frauds! Lol they will obviously use it. Theyve got it in abundance and it cost them nothing. This athletes used food to achieve their bodies bro. Over a life time , 20+ years like myself, when these sups their now promoting were non-existent.

Its a job for them bro. For example, Ox left Universal and he returned. What is your reason for using protein shakes bro? Tell me without the reason being, 'for convenience'? Please tell me...

Orthodox
01-03-16, 3:17 pm
Guess I'll be next then, after your reply to me earlier. This is in no way meant to be an attack, as I feel that this thread brings up some great points, the contributions have all been first rate and you have handled your arguments well. However, you pulled me up on a couple of points; the terms supplements and convenience. I would like to address this.

Firstly, I am not naive about what a supplement is or what it represents. A protein powder will not be comparable to a chicken breast in the same way that Animal Pak will not be comparable to a whole dialled diet, full of micronutrients and vitamins. The thing is, sometimes it is not possible to get everything in. This is where I feel that protein powders fit in. I get the majority, if not all my protein needs, from whole foods. I've just been to Sainsburys actually and it works out cheaper to buy kilo bags of turkey, beef mince and eggs over powders. I have the luxury of time. In the past, I have not.

I will still use powders from reputable companies like Universal from time to time simply for the second point. Convenience. A scoop of powder is convenient in a hectic lifestyle. My mind boggles at your eating habits. 1000g protein? 10 odd meals? With no powders? Apart from the fact that it seems more than what any human can digest, you really have the time to sit down and eat all that food and let it go down? Because on my 45 hour shifts I used to do, I sure as hell didn't. People cite 'making the time', but this sometimes isn't practical. I'd make minced beef wraps and eat hard boiled eggs, but shakes still had their place.

I also wouldn't imagine that Rich Piano dude bringing in anything constructive to this thread. All output from him that I have stumbed across seems detrimental to the reputation of bodybuilding.

Peace rainman

You called him Rich piano lol omg its 'pianna'. Na look my boy Rich is Bodybuilding bro. Im blessed to know him cause his well a dying breed if bodybuilder and an amazing man outside the gym. He has gelped me find balance in my life outside the gym by becoming successful, opening up my business and just putting my energy into something other than bodybuilding because as i guess you have realised, isnt something that i really do. Many, i mean many could learn from him. Raised in Golds gym, his seen it all bro.

Anyways, i have dedicated my whole entire life to bodybuilding. I gave up a cush carrer which was layed out infront of me to follow. Which was to obviously become a Rabbi, serve the Jewish community. (Golders Green etc Stafford hill). A safe life.. Cosey, well off but i choose to be A bodybuilder. I have tajen it to the extreme and fucking beyond bro. I have lived it... Still am will do till God calls my name. For me to eat 1000 grms of protein aday isn't hard bro. If you cared enough to build your body, then you will obviously take the time to work out how. If i blended up say 6-7 sainburys chicken breasts, that right there is a 100grm serving. You pinch your nose, close your eyes and as you swallow you think of heaven! Nop itsnot glamorous but whi gives a fuck, your doing whatever it takes. Thats the person who is going to make it bro. I mean 20 years and on. Because their beyond hungry. If You got a vision only you can see, then why the fuck are you looking to another to achieve this vision. Why? They cant see it. Lol

Arnold spoke of 'Time' in his blue print. He too could not stand when people blamed time. He said:

"Why blame time for your failure ? What has time done? Its been honest. There are 24 hrs, you sleep for 6 that leaves you with 18 remaining. Uf you wanna sleep for longer then thats your choice, you lose even more cause youve got to also allocate time for other things. Cardio first thing, journey to and from work, gym time, posing time, shopping, cooking, back home for family time. Plus you gotta make time to fo unexpected stuff. New things/intrests, home work, etc."

Hey this is life bro. 24 hrs is 24 hrs. This is also what it means to be Hardcore! You do what you gotta do Rainman. Im a bodybuilder bro nothing other than God and these kids, is more important to me. If you gotta get up early and say go into work first thing, Important presentation, i bet you wouldnt go out the night before on a bender and start partying so why cant you prepare a meal in advance. If its only one shake then what the fuck is that gonna do for ya? Just prepare another meal...

Journey well

Swolepez
01-03-16, 3:57 pm
Peace to you my friend

Long time no? No i take no offence ive been talking about this fir 20+ years and accessional someone is honest. Im telling that these Animal athlletes who i respect great also, may use powders now cause their sponsered too. If they didn't and clamed to the that would be advertising frauds! Lol they will obviously use it. Theyve got it in abundance and it cost them nothing. This athletes used food to achieve their bodies bro. Over a life time , 20+ years like myself, when these sups their now promoting were non-existent.

Its a job for them bro. For example, Ox left Universal and he returned. What is your reason for using protein shakes bro? Tell me without the reason being, 'for convenience'? Please tell me...

Yes it's been a little while lol.
Yes I understand that the athletes can get protein powder for free from Animal but Animal does not force them to advertise or take something they don't believe in. Hence, why some athletes like Huge didn't mention protein powder in his supplement simplicity stack while Wrath on the other hand did mention that he uses whey and even says, "this is something I actually cut from my diet a couple of years ago bc of stomach issues" meaning that Wrath did indeed take protein powders BEFORE Animal Whey was released and most likely did so on his own dime! Only reason he stopped was some of the stomach issues he had which were addressed with Animal Whey. He even mentions how "taste" is very important for him which brings me to myself.
I use protein powder as a means to 1) help reach daily protein Intake and 2) for variety sake. I don't care how hardcore someone wants to sound and say they eat plain food and the exact same thing everyday but that's not me and I don't care to be that way. I tried it and still noticing the same if not better results with more variety in my nutrition. I use protein powder as a means of variety. Eggs, chx, steak, tilapia, tuna, turkey, eggs, milk and protein powder are all examples of proteins I use to help reach my protein totals although I don't eat all of them every single day.
The reason why I bring this up is bc I know you're going to say that using protein powder for the sake of "variety" is not bodybuilding and that bodybuilding is not about taste and you have to do what it takes, etc.. But Frank McGrath disagrees and seems to be doing great as a bodybuilder and has even stepped foot on the Olympia stage. Here are some of Wrath's own words: "One of the biggest reasons people fail with their diets is because they think they have to eat plain crap or chicken seven times every day. I can't do that. I'll go crazy, and I won't want to eat. I have to mix it up and have different tastes every meal. Sure, I'm not pounding cheeseburgers, but I have to have some flavor". Or, "I've seen all you guys looking in magazines at bodybuilders who eat their plain chicken breasts, plain rice, plain everything. Not this guy. I need a little bit of flavor in my life".
Again, the only reason I bring these ^^ points up is bc I said I use protein shakes for variety which I assume your going to say is an "excuse" just the way said others using powders for connivence is an "excuse".
So I ask again: is Frank McGrath wrong for using protein powder? Are you saying that someone who has already accomplished stepping on the biggest stage of bodybuilding is taking the easy way out bc they have shakes? Are you saying he would have a better physique had he not had any shakes?

Also, you never answered any of my questions in my previous post???? You just mentioned the fact that these athletes receive their products for free which we all already know...
And again, I repeat, even Rich has a powdered supp that he is selling. Don't get me wrong, I like Rich bc he doesn't hide anything about the sport so I'm not picking on him.


One more example from OX, "The bulk of my diet consisted of eggs, chicken, protein powder, potatoes, rice, oats, and veggies. Fast forward a few years, when I was fresh out of college, way more knowledgeable, and totally dedicated to the competition lifestyle, and guess what? My diet was made up of those same fundamentals. I was able to obtain my IFBB pro status eating like a cheap bastard for just four meals per day, and if I could do it, so can you."

^^^so not only was protein powder a part of his diet but even after college and with more knowledge (and he has a lot of that lol) he still kept protein powder in his regimen and even obtained his Pro Card while having protein powder in his diet plan. So even when he was building his body to be what it is today, he had protein powder regularly.
He goes on to say, "However, it was standard for me to have two protein shakes each day, to which I added some type of fat, typically peanut butter."

Jay
01-03-16, 6:49 pm
And this lengthy response to my statement is your opinion. As I had my opinion. If you enjoy posting on a supplement forum knocking supplements and boasting how great you are because you don't use them. Great. Or. Maybe your on the wrong forum.

Orthodox
01-04-16, 1:33 am
Have ever seen a pro bodybuilder nearly hang himself with the same rope? Its an incredible thing to see. For me it was humbling. Seeing it taught me that God sees all things! Even in this wacky world of bodybuilding, there are lessons yo be taught! Quick story...

Phil Heath.. Amazing guy, amazing athlete and business man. Quickly realised the longevity of a pro bodybuilder is short.. Like most he then thinks of his future after bodybuilding and naturally wants to stay in the industry so he sets out into the supplement industry, opens up Gifted Nutrition all power to him... He then spends all year promoting his products.. But then the strangest thing happened.. Not strange to me cause i was basically born in a gym but it happened in front of my eyes...

Phil's asked to speak about his diet prep and what he has always eaten and done to get this point. Standard interview yeah? Only this time he had to be honest because like most pros he had to then honour his REAL SPONSOR, his solid food sponsor. Every pro is given free meat, by a meat or dairy provider i guess and in return they then promote this provider to the nation. Nothing wrong with this. This is how it should be done. Pros promotion solid food and not nonsense. So when phil was asked about his secrets he sudden pointed at these say 8 meals laid out in front of him, all spot on. Your different protein sources on a plates divided up carefully with a carb. Sweet potato rotated with rice. Prob was he been telling everyone about his so called secret to growth all year round and it always consisted if his supplements and a young boy listening to him realised this having followed him all year round and probably also bought his stuff right questioned him? "But there is no mention of your supplements" he said to phil. "How much shakes are you using?"

No reply! Cause he wasn't using any. Hears the ROPE. He had to point to those plates! Cause he knew what he was obligated to promote the company who had given him this SOlID FOOD. He had too because if he didn't he knew that he would lose what was beyond precious to him. His real secret.. His Food. And the amount needed for him would should he need to have to start buying it, would obviously over time blow a hole in his pocket hell, I've seen it bankrupt certain x pros! Fail to place top 5 and the Sponsors go, followed by your free Meat and then the muscle goes also. Like when you see an ex pro after just a few years into retirement, weight suddenly gone all deflated.. one then says "oh his no longer on steroids etc"

No.. His no longer eating right.. Phil like most pros saw this destiny and he hence started business to avoid this.. All your points are valid but your mAking them with your eyes CLOSED!!! Open them and see.. If you cant as grown men, then what hope has a 13, or 16 year old kid got?

Thanks guys

Journey well

Orthodox
01-04-16, 2:30 am
And this lengthy response to my statement is your opinion. As I had my opinion. If you enjoy posting on a supplement forum knocking supplements and boasting how great you are because you don't use them. Great. Or. Maybe your on the wrong forum.

Peace to you Jay

If i have grieved you then i am a foolish man. The days of attaching a note to the leg of a flying bird, waiting many days for a response is over. Now with the blessings of technology, our communication can be instant. Such as this Forum Animal has kindly provided us with. I was also in prison where my communication with others was extremely restricted so i look at communication as a very serious and beautiful thing. Those who know me on here no that i will never post unless it is something i feel passionately about. The core objective to all my posts is to get the reader thinking about The SPIRITUAL ASPECT of bodybuilding this is my contribution to the forum bro. Im not here yo talk about different colour Animal T's etc (even though secretly i too fantasise about them lol) I'm a very serious man with a very very serious outlook.

Im someone that gets it bro. I mean really gets it. So i cant just close my eyes and claim that i cant see when the spirit in me, compels me to do something, say something. I would not be being true to myself or my purpose and that for me is a life not worth living. So to if i see my fellow animal brethren not being true to himself as in lying to himself, well the Spirit says to me that it is for me to then show him. Cause in doing so i can help him, FREE him :)

There is great spiritual motives behind this thread Jay but no one yet has clocked it. I never speak just to speak. Im comfortable with the longest of silence. If i do, then you can believe that my motives are sole spiritual. I will give it time then reveal it, even if this is the last thread that i ever start, it will be worth it

Journey well

Cellardweller
01-04-16, 6:23 am
Every pro is given free meat, by a meat or dairy provider i guess and in return they then promote this provider to the nation.

Please provide links to any bodybuilder promoting meat or dairy farms, grocery store or meat or dairy association. How about that Heath interview? Where can I find that to read or watch for myself? I feel like you are just saying whatever to back up your point. What you say about whole foods is on point. Making time to prep meals just like you would make time to train is solid too. But nothing you've said about suppliments is convincing. This isn't something spiritual. I'm not taking a leap of faith just because you say so. Give us some evidence to back up your opinions please.

Orthodox
01-04-16, 11:37 am
Please provide links to any bodybuilder promoting meat or dairy farms, grocery store or meat or dairy association. How about that Heath interview? Where can I find that to read or watch for myself? I feel like you are just saying whatever to back up your point. What you say about whole foods is on point. Making time to prep meals just like you would make time to train is solid too. But nothing you've said about suppliments is convincing. This isn't something spiritual. I'm not taking a leap of faith just because you say so. Give us some evidence to back up your opinions please.

Peace to you cellerdweller.

You have become as a mad man reading this thread so much so that you have lost all logic. Its all about faith bro. You are buying these pruducts on faith, on another man/s word... This product is NEW as never before been tired.. Miraculous! Only the pros have tried it before it hits market. So how can we forget faith??it stronger than reason. You too are a man over 30 yeah? Im gonna ask you a simple question did men build bodys in the 1920's? 30's, 40's, 50's? Was there any supps really? No because its not needed bro. The body is a living thing it grows needing only food. Milk milk milk is what a new born is fed.

I dont need to prove anything to you. My body, apeaks of my conviction. The word is 'NEED'bro. You dont need itbyou know that so my to you is why use it then? Why reach for it? Why make your self dependant on something you dont need? I know why Cellerdweller. It is a lack of inner strength. It must be because whenever a man reaches for help externally it weakens him internally to

Cellardweller
01-04-16, 8:43 pm
My body, apeaks of my conviction. The word is 'NEED'bro. You dont need itbyou know that so my to you is why use it then? Why reach for it? Why make your self dependant on something you dont need? I know why Cellerdweller. It is a lack of inner strength. It must be because whenever a man reaches for help externally it weakens him internally to

What does what your body is telling you have to do with the claims you've made about sponserships and interviews? You speak "falsely" trying to defend your point, then call me illogicial? A madman? I already know whole food is best for me and I've said it. I'm also not trying to defend suppliments so why are you lecturing me again about it? I'm not asking for help and I'm not dependent on anything. Who do you think you are?

Orthodox
01-05-16, 3:41 am
What does what your body is telling you have to do with the claims you've made about sponserships and interviews? You speak "falsely" trying to defend your point, then call me illogicial? A madman? I already know whole food is best for me and I've said it. I'm also not trying to defend suppliments so why are you lecturing me again about it? I'm not asking for help and I'm not dependent on anything. Who do you think you are?

Peace to you

Who am I...? I am someone who can only sees the spiritual essence in a thing. Whether your are a skilled carpenter making the most wonderful things out of wood or your a woman weaving the most decorative designs using just a needle and thread.. Its all requires the assistance of the Divine. Building a Body is no different. Its all spirtusl bro thats why we are here in the body.. To understand the relationship between the physical ( earth/flesh) and the non-physical ( heavens/Spirit).

You know cellerdweller i pray you, listen to what i am about to say cause i feel honoured to speak with you. What iam about to say has great relevance to using say a protein shake because there realy is a deeper meaning..

The Romans loved food. They loved to eat. The problem was their stomachs would get full. So they devised a plan.. A socalled solution to their problem. When they eat, They would keep a pot besides them and just as their stomach was
Became full they would stick their fingers down their throats and make themselves sick. You know, and they would throw up, vomit into this pot!

They believed the problem was that there stomach got full but the REAL PROBLEM was that they didnt NEED to eat so much. Of couse they carried on doing this becaus in their eyes it worked. Served their purpose as they got to carry in doing what they enjoyed which was to eat. However they then realised that this method was destroying their stomach and always overlooking the real problem, they then devised a PILL. This pill would then help them deal with the pain that they got in their stomach when bringing up their food and stomach acids... Eventually they developed stomach desease and were falsed to stop eating...

Moral to this story Cellerdweller... They failed to see the problem which was that they did in fact NOT NEED to eat so much food bro. Their was no SOLUTION NEEDED. They created and intoduced something that tgey didnt need, LIKE PROTEIN SHAKES, all they had to do was EAT CORRECTLY...

Journey well and please forgive me if i have offended you.