View Full Version : Rack pulls & Deads in same workout?
MRmichael.hooker
11-29-16, 1:59 pm
Question geared a little more towards the power lifters lurking around. So after this weekend, my training shift is going back towards a more powerlifting/powerbuilding focus. I'm all about researching some new training ideas and philosophies and incorporating what makes sense to me. One thing I came across was regular deads and rack pulls being in the same workout. Wondering your thoughts on this because I've seen a couple guys in here saying doing rack pulls would hurt your deadlift numbers. Thanks for any insight
I don't know how rack pulls would be of any negative benefit to deadlifts. On the contrary, I've done programs before where you'll do rack pulls at 100%+ of your DL max after pulling from the floor from about knee height. A couple weeks later, you drop the height a little...then pull from 4" blocks, then 2", then from the floor.
The only thing it isn't going to do is make you strong off of the floor.
I used block pulls (similar to the rack pulls) in my meet prep for my last meet. I would hit my regular deads from the floor and then add in a few sets of the block pulls using slightly heavier weight than what I pulled from the floor. I felt like these helped my lockout strength which would suffer when I got close to 90 - 95% 1RM.
So yes, but after hitting regular deads!
So yes, but after hitting regular deads!
this
MRmichael.hooker
12-01-16, 9:12 am
Ok, then what are the thoughts on Deficit deads first, then rack pulls after? My gym doesn't have access to blocks.
Ok, then what are the thoughts on Deficit deads first, then rack pulls after? My gym doesn't have access to blocks.
sounds like torture, but i don't see the problem. Now if you are doing deads, then deficit deads, then rack pulls, that might be a bit much (it definitely would be for me). Maybe pick 2 and alternate on future workouts.
Nmowery
12-01-16, 12:22 pm
Ok, then what are the thoughts on Deficit deads first, then rack pulls after? My gym doesn't have access to blocks.
I've done both together before
Also have done workouts where I'll do two sets of 3 from a deficit, then 2 more from the floor, then 2 more from rack/blocks. I tried it before with adding weight between each variation, but that didn't work out too well - seems to go better keeping the same weight throughout.
Ok, then what are the thoughts on Deficit deads first, then rack pulls after? My gym doesn't have access to blocks.
For powerlifting, I would suggest doing regular deads first and then either rack pulls or deficits after. I wouldn't suggest doing both after regular deads because you're really fry your CNS but depending on your weakness in the deadlift movement, I would try and prioritize one for a certain period of time to help improve that weakness. For instance, my weakness is the lockout portion so I would prioritize rack or block pulls after hitting the regular deads.
MRmichael.hooker
12-01-16, 2:04 pm
sounds like torture, but i don't see the problem. Now if you are doing deads, then deficit deads, then rack pulls, that might be a bit much (it definitely would be for me). Maybe pick 2 and alternate on future workouts.
No, it'd be deficit and then rack. No actual pulling from the floor for a few weeks. And then transitioning into less of the 2 and more regular deads until eventually just floor pulls.
I've done both together before
Also have done workouts where I'll do two sets of 3 from a deficit, then 2 more from the floor, then 2 more from rack/blocks. I tried it before with adding weight between each variation, but that didn't work out too well - seems to go better keeping the same weight throughout.
Good to know, thanks man
For powerlifting, I would suggest doing regular deads first and then either rack pulls or deficits after. I wouldn't suggest doing both after regular deads because you're really fry your CNS but depending on your weakness in the deadlift movement, I would try and prioritize one for a certain period of time to help improve that weakness. For instance, my weakness is the lockout portion so I would prioritize rack or block pulls after hitting the regular deads.
Yeah I've played around a lot with it in the past between deficit deads first or after reg deads. I've just never considered doing a program working on just deficit and block pulls, so was curious on some feedback. Appreciate it bud
Ive tried it both same day as deads, or swapping 1 week deads, 1 week rack deads as my main movement. I didn't lose any strength. Got better actually. This is coming from me having had back surgery, and it sometimes is too much to do both in the same day! I will say that in meet prep, there is no replacement for the actual deadlift. So wouldn't add them in personally in a meet prep!
Yeah I've played around a lot with it in the past between deficit deads first or after reg deads. I've just never considered doing a program working on just deficit and block pulls, so was curious on some feedback. Appreciate it bud
Maybe do a mini cycle testing before and after and let us know how it goes?
Maybe do a mini cycle testing before and after and let us know how it goes?
These are all good things. rack pulls, deficits and pulls from the floor can be done in any order, all in the same day or on separated days or two per day. Andy Bolton did heavy rack pulls followed by speed pulls from the floor, a lot of guys like rack pulls after floor. Deficit can be last or as the main exercise it will be my favorite recommendation for conv DLers. I like pulling from the floor, blocks then deficit all in one workout. One set of max reps each. Other guys like a split with Rack pulls and deficits one week reps from the floor the next alternating back and forth each week. Find what works for you
JohnJewett
01-04-17, 12:40 am
I would be interested to program rack pulls and deads done in a superset format. The idea being taking advantage of the postactivation potentiation effect a heavy load can produce. This would allow for greater muscle recruitment going into submaximal deads. I would do heavy rack pull set of 3-6 then follow it with a 2 minute rest and then hit a set of deads.
C.Coronato
01-04-17, 8:34 am
I would be interested to program rack pulls and deads done in a superset format. The idea being taking advantage of the postactivation potentiation effect a heavy load can produce. This would allow for greater muscle recruitment going into submaximal deads. I would do heavy rack pull set of 3-6 then follow it with a 2 minute rest and then hit a set of deads.
Damn thats got to be brutal, but I like the sound of it.
Im going to give it a go on Saturday!
I would be interested to program rack pulls and deads done in a superset format. The idea being taking advantage of the postactivation potentiation effect a heavy load can produce. This would allow for greater muscle recruitment going into submaximal deads. I would do heavy rack pull set of 3-6 then follow it with a 2 minute rest and then hit a set of deads.
I'm going to give this a go tonight! Gonna be hurting after.
Altered Beast
01-04-17, 10:08 am
It all depends on what your weak point is. If it is off of the floor or somewhere along your shins, then yes Rack Pulls will be of no benefit.
For me personally, Rack Pulls as a Secondary Movement 8-12% higher then the programmed Primary Movement % have worked absolute wonders. I'm weak at lockout once the bar gets above my knees; therefore, hitting Rack Pulls from that area has helped tremendously. Rack Pulls also build psychotic back muscle as well as the Yoke muscles (Rear Delts, Upper Back & Traps) and you can go a hell of a lot heavier without it draining your CNS and wearing you out.
Hope this helps!
Altered Beast
01-04-17, 10:12 am
It all depends on what your weak point is. If it is off of the floor or somewhere along your shins, then yes Rack Pulls will be of no benefit.
For me personally, Rack Pulls as a Secondary Movement 8-12% higher then the programmed Primary Movement % have worked absolute wonders. I'm weak at lockout once the bar gets above my knees; therefore, hitting Rack Pulls from that area has helped tremendously. Rack Pulls also build psychotic back muscle as well as the Yoke muscles (Rear Delts, Upper Back & Traps) and you can go a hell of a lot heavier without it draining your CNS and wearing you out.
Hope this helps!
Correction 10-15% higher on the Rack Pulls =)
i noticed in programs like Sheiko and Brandon Lilly's cube method that only have one dead lift day per week, both of them went floor - > block pulls -> deficits and the weight was something like block pulls were heaviest deficits were lightest and that left the work off the floor as your main movement. A just started my meet prep and the program I am doing now has them similar to this and I am really looking forward to the end of the training cycle as I have not used dead lifts in this manner before. thumbs up from me! I am going to be experimenting with subbing in dead lift with bands or chains on the block pulls as well. We shall see.
Jay Nera
01-29-17, 8:41 pm
Question geared a little more towards the power lifters lurking around. So after this weekend, my training shift is going back towards a more powerlifting/powerbuilding focus. I'm all about researching some new training ideas and philosophies and incorporating what makes sense to me. One thing I came across was regular deads and rack pulls being in the same workout. Wondering your thoughts on this because I've seen a couple guys in here saying doing rack pulls would hurt your deadlift numbers. Thanks for any insight
I don't see rack pulls as a very beneficial lift. Oddly i recently just did some for the first time in years because my hip was sore. I wouldn't place too much empashsis on the rack pulls. The positions you are in starting a rack pull are often not very close to the position you will be in when you pull from the floor and get to the same point. For the purpose of simply overloading your traps, grip, upper back etc… sure. But i wouldn't over do it.
Altered Beast
01-30-17, 1:25 pm
I don't see rack pulls as a very beneficial lift. Oddly i recently just did some for the first time in years because my hip was sore. I wouldn't place too much empashsis on the rack pulls. The positions you are in starting a rack pull are often not very close to the position you will be in when you pull from the floor and get to the same point. For the purpose of simply overloading your traps, grip, upper back etc… sure. But i wouldn't over do it.
Works wonders for me as I rapidly am approaching a 700 natty Deadlift =)
I don't see rack pulls as a very beneficial lift. Oddly i recently just did some for the first time in years because my hip was sore. I wouldn't place too much empashsis on the rack pulls. The positions you are in starting a rack pull are often not very close to the position you will be in when you pull from the floor and get to the same point. For the purpose of simply overloading your traps, grip, upper back etc… sure. But i wouldn't over do it.
Gotta say I highly disagree. Rack or block pulls teach you to generate tension through the back via isometric contraction, which is hard for a lot of people who rely on the passive tension the erectors are under when they pull with the back rounded. This pretty much happens automatically from a deficit, where there's a lot of passive tension in the muscles just from stretching down to the bar. Second, if the criticism is that blocks allow you to just squat the weight up, then the real benefit is that if you learn to do this then you learn, effectively, to load the legs at the start of the deadlift.
Block pulls built up my deadlifts more than anything... period. While there are other avenues to a big conventional pull--building the erectors is the simplest path to strength--Block pulls will teach you how to be tight before the lift initiates for those who want to deadlift to their potential... Still gotta have form
Works wonders for me as I rapidly am approaching a 700 natty Deadlift =)
Keep it up man
Fwiw...I just did deficits and block pulls in the same workout today, and it was glorious!
Altered Beast
02-06-17, 10:15 am
Keep it up man
Yes sir will do!
Aggression
02-06-17, 3:18 pm
Since September, I've made a habit out of pulling from the floor for my 'main' work and then doing 3 heavier sets of block pulls, like J-Dawg said. Reason for the block pulls is because I can blast the weight up to my knees and then I stall out. So the block pulls will hopefully rectify that.
Altered Beast
02-06-17, 3:32 pm
Since September, I've made a habit out of pulling from the floor for my 'main' work and then doing 3 heavier sets of block pulls, like J-Dawg said. Reason for the block pulls is because I can blast the weight up to my knees and then I stall out. So the block pulls will hopefully rectify that.
I've had a similar issue. I'd stall out above the knee and Rack Pulls have helped me engage my hips much earlier in the Pull as well as strengthen all of the muscles involved.
As long as you are doing regular Deads as your main exercise and only supplementing with rack pulls you´re fine.
Matter of fact, I have heard Tom Prince say in Podcast called RX Power Hour that his back routine usually consisted of close grip pulldowns, TBar rows, Deads off the floor and Rack Deads. 3 sets of 4-8 reps each.
I´ve done both in the same session, too.
Altered Beast
02-08-17, 11:43 am
As long as you are doing regular Deads as your main exercise and only supplementing with rack pulls you´re fine.
Matter of fact, I have heard Tom Prince say in Podcast called RX Power Hour that his back routine usually consisted of close grip pulldowns, TBar rows, Deads off the floor and Rack Deads. 3 sets of 4-8 reps each.
I´ve done both in the same session, too.
Rex has spoken.
npcdusty
02-08-17, 12:12 pm
I don't see a problem with it. I sometimes do my conventional pull then sumo or have done racks afterwards as well. I also on leg days will squat and then do front squat as my follow up depending on how I feel. I think if it feels right to you and you recover from it in time go for it.... Unless a coach is programming you, never go against your coach, that's what you pay them for!!! :)
Jay Nera
02-27-17, 10:19 pm
Gotta say I highly disagree. Rack or block pulls teach you to generate tension through the back via isometric contraction, which is hard for a lot of people who rely on the passive tension the erectors are under when they pull with the back rounded. This pretty much happens automatically from a deficit, where there's a lot of passive tension in the muscles just from stretching down to the bar. Second, if the criticism is that blocks allow you to just squat the weight up, then the real benefit is that if you learn to do this then you learn, effectively, to load the legs at the start of the deadlift.
Block pulls built up my deadlifts more than anything... period. While there are other avenues to a big conventional pull--building the erectors is the simplest path to strength--Block pulls will teach you how to be tight before the lift initiates for those who want to deadlift to their potential... Still gotta have form
Yeah, I guess i should have clarified. I don't view RACK and BLOCK pulls as the same thing. Might be a canadian thing.
I view RACK pulls as being around the knee or above and BLOCK pulls as being below the knee, closer to the floor. So when I see 'rack pulls' what i see most often is people putting themselves in positions that they will not be in at that point had they started the pull lower. For example, when someone does a rack pull in front of the knee(conventional lets say), they may tend to have their chest up A LOT and hips close to the bar, to maximize their leverages at that starting point…rarely does anyone get in front of their knees with their chests so upright.
I also think that sumo and deadlift are very different lifts as far as the strength curve goes so block pulls have more benefit with sumo than in conventional…and again, rack pulls, around the knee or above, i don't see too much value in doing a lot of.
Yeah, I guess i should have clarified. I don't view RACK and BLOCK pulls as the same thing. Might be a canadian thing.
I view RACK pulls as being around the knee or above and BLOCK pulls as being below the knee, closer to the floor. So when I see 'rack pulls' what i see most often is people putting themselves in positions that they will not be in at that point had they started the pull lower. For example, when someone does a rack pull in front of the knee(conventional lets say), they may tend to have their chest up A LOT and hips close to the bar, to maximize their leverages at that starting point…rarely does anyone get in front of their knees with their chests so upright.
I also think that sumo and deadlift are very different lifts as far as the strength curve goes so block pulls have more benefit with sumo than in conventional…and again, rack pulls, around the knee or above, i don't see too much value in doing a lot of.
Another difference - block pulls will allow the lifter to pull the slack out of the bar like a normal DL vs rack pulls more or less starting with the bar bent. Changes the dynamic a bit in my opinion.