Instinctive?

[spartan300]

How structured are your workouts?

[ChrisTuttle]

How structured are your workouts?

80% Planned
20% instinctive

[Bean]

Im with Chris. Structured but I will throw extra sets, reps, or add lifts depending on how I feel. Some nights I feel like shit and stick to the program and just call it a night

[Altered Beast]

The Primary barbell movements are planned and the secondary building movements are typically instinctive and can change once I arrive to The Dungeon.

[ChrisTuttle]

Im with Chris. Structured but I will throw extra sets, reps, or add lifts depending on how I feel. Some nights I feel like shit and stick to the program and just call it a night

Exactly! Like today I pulled a damn muscle in my trap and had to omit movements that bothered it and added in ones that did not.

[0RiFt0]

I see a lot of people train "instinctively" and it leads them away from what is productive to what is easy.
I think instinctive training should be reserved for unexpected tweaks and pains midway through a workout but you should otherwise have a pretty distinct plan of assault

[ChrisTuttle]

I see a lot of people train "instinctively" and it leads them away from what is productive to what is easy.
I think instinctive training should be reserved for unexpected tweaks and pains midway through a workout but you should otherwise have a pretty distinct plan of assault

I 100% agree! tweaks, injuries, and available equipment if in travel.

[ChrisTuttle]

I see a lot of people train "instinctively" and it leads them away from what is productive to what is easy.
I think instinctive training should be reserved for unexpected tweaks and pains midway through a workout but you should otherwise have a pretty distinct plan of assault

What I always hear from people is they get "bored" so they keep changing things up. LOL

[Bean]

Exactly! Like today I pulled a damn muscle in my trap and had to omit movements that bothered it and added in ones that did not.

100% we have to listen to our body and not be that " young dumb kid" that continues even if there is pain. I did that with a shoulder pain a few years ago and it took almost a year for my shoulder to feel normal again. I learned my lesson

[ChrisTuttle]

100% we have to listen to our body and not be that " young dumb kid" that continues even if there is pain. I did that with a shoulder pain a few years ago and it took almost a year for my shoulder to feel normal again. I learned my lesson

AHHAHHA oh me too! i WORKED THROUGH KNEE PAIN FOR YEARS AND NOW I AM DAMN CRIPPLE. It is a shame we have to learn like that.

[Altered Beast]

What I always hear from people is they get "bored" so they keep changing things up. LOL

I'd say its more along the lines of seeing constant gains! =) you can't perform the same movements week in and week out in the same order and except to see gains! Right?

[ChrisTuttle]

I'd say its more along the lines of seeing constant gains! =) you can't perform the same movements week in and week out in the same order and except to see gains! Right?

Not exactly true. Dorian did the same exercises for 10 years. Clearly there has to be some change up. However I do not think a plan should change exercises for at least 5-6 weeks

[0RiFt0]

I'd say its more along the lines of seeing constant gains! =) you can't perform the same movements week in and week out in the same order and except to see gains! Right?

If I like the way an exercise feels (i love flat db press for example) but if I'm stalling I'll modulate frequency and volume before I admit defeat and swap to flat BB. It's hard to get proficient at an exercise if you are changing it prematurely. I believe that if you swap exercises every two weeks you will see great gains for those specific exercises because you are going through the initial neurological adaptation to a new movement rather than a hypertrophic adaptation.

[spartan300]

I basically followed my original routine, that centered around the "Core" movements for the first few years before exploring other options. After that, pretty much EVERY workout was put together just prior to entering the gym usually while having my breakfast.

[spartan300]

I'd say its more along the lines of seeing constant gains! =) you can't perform the same movements week in and week out in the same order and except to see gains! Right? Preach on Beast! ;)

[Altered Beast]

Not exactly true. Dorian did the same exercises for 10 years. Clearly there has to be some change up. However I do not think a plan should change exercises for at least 5-6 weeks

Dorian was also drugged to the eyeballs and had genetics that no one else can ever mimic. The exception never proves the rule!


If I like the way an exercise feels (i love flat db press for example) but if I'm stalling I'll modulate frequency and volume before I admit defeat and swap to flat BB. It's hard to get proficient at an exercise if you are changing it prematurely. I believe that if you swap exercises every two weeks you will see great gains for those specific exercises because you are going through the initial neurological adaptation to a new movement rather than a hypertrophic adaptation.

You can hit the same movements but in a different order on different days to prevent adaptation. That was my point. I don't think everything should radically change every two weeks, that makes zero sense! We are on the same page.

[0RiFt0]

My bad beast. I re-read your post and picked up on the sacasm this time lol

[Altered Beast]

My bad beast. I re-read your post and picked up on the sacasm this time lol

LOL! All good.

[ChrisTuttle]

Dorian was also drugged to the eyeballs and had genetics that no one else can ever mimic. The exception never proves the rule!



You can hit the same movements but in a different order on different days to prevent adaptation. That was my point. I don't think everything should radically change every two weeks, that makes zero sense! We are on the same page.

Well course but drugs help you with recover. They do not make exercise stimulus fresh everytime you hit it so the drug argument does not work in this. Of course there is an exception to every rule but there is thing called neurological adaptation of a movement. That is why when you do a new movement for the first time you are able to move up in weight each week fairly quick before leveling off. So changing exercises too frequently is not good at all. changing it up every 4-6 weeks sure, but changing it up every workout is just not the best approach esp for strength.

Def can change in different order. We are on the same page for the most part.

[ChrisTuttle]

If I like the way an exercise feels (i love flat db press for example) but if I'm stalling I'll modulate frequency and volume before I admit defeat and swap to flat BB. It's hard to get proficient at an exercise if you are changing it prematurely. I believe that if you swap exercises every two weeks you will see great gains for those specific exercises because you are going through the initial neurological adaptation to a new movement rather than a hypertrophic adaptation.

That is just what I said before I read this.

[Altered Beast]

Well course but drugs help you with recover. They do not make exercise stimulus fresh everytime you hit it so the drug argument does not work in this. Of course there is an exception to every rule but there is thing called neurological adaptation of a movement. That is why when you do a new movement for the first time you are able to move up in weight each week fairly quick before leveling off. So changing exercises too frequently is not good at all. changing it up every 4-6 weeks sure, but changing it up every workout is just not the best approach esp for strength.

Def can change in different order. We are on the same page for the most part.

Can't bullshit a bullshitter =) I ran pharma (had a source that snuck em in from overseas) drugs for a 2-3 year period and I know what they can do for gains. Recovery is one component but the biggest gains are due to an increase in nitrogen retention in the muscle anywhere from 2-4 fold depending on what drugs are used and doses. Blood circulation to the muscle increases dramatically, that is why when guys are on their veins are bulging out and are the size of a fountain pen.

The nutrient partitioning effects are also massively increased; therefore, guys that are on, can eat far more protein and cheat meals and not only stay leaner but add slabs of muscles at a faster rate.

*I'm not saying it's all drugs, but there is a reason every BBer runs a plethora of drugs....THEY WORK! To say it only benefits recovery is an out and out lie I'm afraid!

[ChrisTuttle]

Can't bullshit a bullshitter =) I ran pharma (had a source that snuck em in from overseas) drugs for a 2-3 year period and I know what they can do for gains. Recovery is one component but the biggest gains are due to an increase in nitrogen retention in the muscle anywhere from 2-4 fold depending on what drugs are used and doses. Blood circulation to the muscle increases dramatically, that is why when guys are on their veins are bulging out and are the size of a fountain pen.

The nutrient partitioning effects are also massively increased; therefore, guys that are on, can eat far more protein and cheat meals and not only stay leaner but add slabs of muscles at a faster rate.

*I'm not saying it's all drugs, but there is a reason every BBer runs a plethora of drugs....THEY WORK! To say it only benefits recovery is an out and out lie I'm afraid!

Yeah of course not sure how you got that I was denying that. I am saying changing a plan too often is not the most beneficial thing to do drugs or no drugs.

[Altered Beast]

Yeah of course not sure how you got that I was denying that. I am saying changing a plan too often is not the most beneficial thing to do drugs or no drugs.

LOL! All good, we were on the same page this stuff just needed to be said =)

[ChrisTuttle]

LOL! All good, we were on the same page this stuff just needed to be said =)

Oh of course. It is like the stock and modified race classes. Clearly modified go fuck of a lot faster. Same driver and same situation but able to go further and faster.

[Rex]

Not exactly true. Dorian did the same exercises for 10 years. Clearly there has to be some change up. However I do not think a plan should change exercises for at least 5-6 weeks

As pretty much always, I absolutely agree with Chris. That includes all his other posts he has made on this thread.

[spartan300]

As pretty much always, I absolutely agree with Chris. That includes all his other posts he has made on this thread.He's stating more of an opinion than a fact. Granted an educated one, but it's still based on his observations.

[ChrisTuttle]

He's stating more of an opinion than a fact. Granted an educated one, but it's still based on his observations.

That is partially true as you did the same with your hypothesis. I would say about 20-30% of what goes in bodybuilding is based on observation and can be argued not to be fact or a deemed a universal principle that works for all. Based on my experience training over the last 17 years, understanding of Hypertrophy training / muscle adaptation / neurological adaption (school), and 13 years of training natural and unnatural bodybuilders, that is what I concluded. Is there a degree of fact in what I said? Absolutely. It is cut and dry? Not at all. Which I think you interrupted it that way.

The only problem with this discussion is "drugs" were used to negative my argument. Somehow it seems we cannot use anyone in history who has made it in any sport who have used drugs. The biased towards or against them creates confirmation bias and does not allow us to see all the information at hand. Brian Shaw and Mariusz Zbigniew Pudzianowski clearly used drugs. We cannot negate there training programs, periodization, and progress on drugs.

[ChrisTuttle]

He's stating more of an opinion than a fact. Granted an educated one, but it's still based on his observations.

In all honestly I really do not know how "changing up a training program too frequently can hinder progress" as I stated before turn into drugs negating that fact. That for sure is a fact. Can you get results both ways? Sure, will you maximize more out of staying with a particular routine for 4-6 weeks? For sure because of neurological adaption of new movements. It takes repetition for the body to maximal recruit muscle fibers in a new movement. This is why the 2nd and 3rd time doing a new movement strength is increased. That is why before I was wondering if there is misunderstanding here.

[Rex]

He's stating more of an opinion than a fact. Granted an educated one, but it's still based on his observations.

You´re doing the exact same.

[Rex]

In all honestly I really do not know how "changing up a training program too frequently can hinder progress" as I stated before turn into drugs negating that fact. That for sure is a fact. Can you get results both ways? Sure, will you maximize more out of staying with a particular routine for 4-6 weeks? For sure because of neurological adaption of new movements. It takes repetition for the body to maximal recruit muscle fibers in a new movement. This is why the 2nd and 3rd time doing a new movement strength is increased. That is why before I was wondering if there is misunderstanding here.

There you go.
Hard facts.

Thanks for taking the time explaining all this. It would have taken me forever to put all that into proper English...

[Altered Beast]

In all honestly I really do not know how "changing up a training program too frequently can hinder progress" as I stated before turn into drugs negating that fact. That for sure is a fact. Can you get results both ways? Sure, will you maximize more out of staying with a particular routine for 4-6 weeks? For sure because of neurological adaption of new movements. It takes repetition for the body to maximal recruit muscle fibers in a new movement. This is why the 2nd and 3rd time doing a new movement strength is increased. That is why before I was wondering if there is misunderstanding here.

Gotcha! You do have a point with strength/muscle fiber recruitment increasing after three weeks of hitting a certain movement. Louie Simmon's uses three week waves for speed work and even with his maximal effort work (for newer lifters) to set a 5RM, 3RM, 2 or 1RM then switching to another movement after 3 weeks setting the various PR's each week.

[ChrisTuttle]

Gotcha! You do have a point with strength/muscle fiber recruitment increasing after three weeks of hitting a certain movement. Louie Simmon's uses three week waves for speed work and even with his maximal effort work (for newer lifters) to set a 5RM, 3RM, 2 or 1RM then switching to another movement after 3 weeks setting the various PR's each week.

Exactly what I am trying to say. This applies to bodybuilding too of course. Not like you cannot get results out of changing it every week but based on this fact it is wise to stay with a particular routine for 3-4 weeks.

[ChrisTuttle]

There you go.
Hard facts.

Thanks for taking the time explaining all this. It would have taken me forever to put all that into proper English...

You are welcome LOL

[Altered Beast]

Exactly what I am trying to say. This applies to bodybuilding too of course. Not like you cannot get results out of changing it every week but based on this fact it is wise to stay with a particular routine for 3-4 weeks.

I'm going to start applying this to my BBer style training. Will help me focus on what I need to focus on and not get bored. Plus I can always add chains/bands or reverse band setups too =)

[ChrisTuttle]

I'm going to start applying this to my BBer style training. Will help me focus on what I need to focus on and not get bored. Plus I can always add chains/bands or reverse band setups too =)

Now that is a good idea! Bands are great esp when joints are getting banged up.

[spartan300]

You´re doing the exact same.No argument there my friend. When it's all said and done the end justifies the means.

[spartan300]

Exactly what I am trying to say. This applies to bodybuilding too of course. Not like you cannot get results out of changing it every week but based on this fact it is wise to stay with a particular routine for 3-4 weeks.Let me tell you a little story CT. First time I tried benching 405 was on a whim! I was managing a gym and one of the guys had neglected to strip down the bar on a bench he was using. A buddy of mine came over and was going to help me. He knew how I trained always changing my routine and he goes I bet you can't even get this out of the rack. I told him you're probably right. I started to take a plate off and he goes "PUSSY"! Mind you I rarely used more than 275 when I did bench. Not being one to usually shy away from a challenge I slid myself under the bar and strictly by force of habit put my feet up on the bench. I then proceeded to delicately wrapped my fingers around that son of bitch. I snatched that fucker and cleared the posts. Once again by force of habit I started to lower the bar to my neck. I thought to myself this shit isn't so heavy (i just figured that was the adrenaline talking) I rammed that bar right back up! Surprisingly, I did another 4 more reps! I racked the bar myself and jumped up and told my buddy I got your pussy hangin' mother fucker!! At the time i did this I was hooked on smith inclines and decline DB presses for my pecs. In a matter of fact I hadn't done flats in weeks!! Weird shit right? But so true CT. I trained the way I wanted to because I didnt want those assholes to be right. I was harshly criticized back when I started for not "TRAINING PROPERLY". I gave the finger to conventional training wisdom because of people like Bill Pearl. God bless Boyer Coe though, He's the guy who told me "Keep doing what you're doing son".

[ChrisTuttle]

Let me tell you a little story CT. First time I tried benching 405 was on a whim! I was managing a gym and one of the guys had neglected to strip down the bar on a bench he was using. A buddy of mine came over and was going to help me. He knew how I trained always changing my routine and he goes I bet you can't even get this out of the rack. I told him you're probably right. I started to take a plate off and he goes "PUSSY"! Mind you I rarely used more than 275 when I did bench. Not being one to usually shy away from a challenge I slid myself under the bar and strictly by force of habit put my feet up on the bench. I then proceeded to delicately wrapped my fingers around that son of bitch. I snatched that fucker and cleared the posts. Once again by force of habit I started to lower the bar to my neck. I thought to myself this shit isn't so heavy (i just figured that was the adrenaline talking) I rammed that bar right back up! Surprisingly, I did another 4 more reps! I racked the bar myself and jumped up and told my buddy I got your pussy hangin' mother fucker!! At the time i did this I was hooked on smith inclines and decline DB presses for my pecs. In a matter of fact I hadn't done flats in weeks!! Weird shit right? But so true CT. I trained the way I wanted to because I didnt want those assholes to be right. I was harshly criticized back when I started for not "TRAINING PROPERLY". I gave the finger to conventional training wisdom because of people like Bill Pearl. God bless Boyer Coe though, He's the guy who told me "Keep doing what you're doing son".

That is a great story man. I like it! Well I feel that people who criticize others on training style when they are getting results are very misinformed. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is a reason why we have had 9 different Mr Olympia's and all who trained differently. There is not a universal rule of training by any means. It is not black and white. There are of course no no's but there is a grey area.

[Rex]

No argument there my friend. When it's all said and done the end justifies the means.

I agree.

[Rex]

That is a great story man. I like it! Well I feel that people who criticize others on training style when they are getting results are very misinformed. There is more than one way to skin a cat. There is a reason why we have had 9 different Mr Olympia's and all who trained differently. There is not a universal rule of training by any means. It is not black and white. There are of course no no's but there is a grey area.

Come on, Chris?!?! We´re at 14 Mr. O´s these days! :D

[Altered Beast]

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I HATE that mindless saying!!! LOL! No beef, but I'm on a mission to put an end to it =)

[ChrisTuttle]

I HATE that mindless saying!!! LOL! No beef, but I'm on a mission to put an end to it =)

How about, "more than one way up the mountain?" HAHHA

[ChrisTuttle]

Come on, Chris?!?! We´re at 14 Mr. O´s these days! :D

Well shit! I was way off!

[spartan300]

ARMS, MYTH, OAK, THE BAT, CHEMIST, OPERA MAN, THE LION, HANEY, THE SHADOW, CUTLER, COLEMAN, DEXTER,HEATH BAR AND RODENT. DID I FORGET ANYBODY? LOL!!!! So I'm fucking senile. At least I remember most of them not by necessarily by name, but I remember them!

[ChrisTuttle]

ARMS, MYTH, OAK, THE BAT, CHEMIST, OPERA MAN, THE LION, HANEY, THE SHADOW, CUTLER, COLEMAN, DEXTER,HEATH BAR AND RODENT. DID I FORGET ANYBODY? LOL!!!! So I'm fucking senile. At least I remember most of them not by necessarily by name, but I remember them!

Wow that is impressive.

[spartan300]

Wow that is impressive.I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I can remember that shit. Ain't that a bitch! Word to the wise Chrissy don't get old brother! LOL!!

[Rex]

I HATE that mindless saying!!! LOL! No beef, but I'm on a mission to put an end to it =)

If that´s your only mission left in life your life must awesome :)

[Rex]

Well shit! I was way off!

You lost quite some meathead points there, buddy...

[Rex]

I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I can remember that shit. Ain't that a bitch! Word to the wise Chrissy don't get old brother! LOL!!

I had the same breakfast for the last decade I think... Haha

[spartan300]

I had the same breakfast for the last decade I think... HahaThat's the sad part Rex! Tough getting old brother LOL!!

[spartan300]

If that´s your only mission left in life your life must awesome :)=)

[Altered Beast]

If that´s your only mission left in life your life must awesome :)

What can I say =) PROST! Let's drink some lagers! That's all I could come up with....OH and GET HOOGE!

[Bean]

That's the sad part Rex! Tough getting old brother LOL!!

Mind and body are strong...maybe not as strong as they were in the past, but sometimes that is ok. They are still strong.

[ChrisTuttle]

That's the sad part Rex! Tough getting old brother LOL!!

I am NOT looking forward to that at all. My body has already taken a major toll over the last 22 years of motocross and bodybuilding. I am only 35 and have arthritis in my left knee.

[spartan300]

Mind and body are strong...maybe not as strong as they were in the past, but sometimes that is ok. They are still strong.There's a song by Toby Keith that pretty much sums up my life right now. The title of it is "I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was"!

[spartan300]

I am NOT looking forward to that at all. My body has already taken a major toll over the last 22 years of motocross and bodybuilding. I am only 35 and have arthritis in my left knee.:(

[Altered Beast]

I am NOT looking forward to that at all. My body has already taken a major toll over the last 22 years of motocross and bodybuilding. I am only 35 and have arthritis in my left knee.

Flex, Hyaluronic Acid and Tumeric. Should help ease some of it!

[ChrisTuttle]

Flex, Hyaluronic Acid and Tumeric. Should help ease some of it!

I have two of those in : ) It will still exist and that arthritis might feel better but it still will progres if I keep doing what I am doing.

[Rex]

That's the sad part Rex! Tough getting old brother LOL!!

Hahaha That was really funny :D I´m not there... yet...

[Rex]

I am NOT looking forward to that at all. My body has already taken a major toll over the last 22 years of motocross and bodybuilding. I am only 35 and have arthritis in my left knee.

I know you´ve had a couple of bones broken in Motocross races. Man... I´d never even attempt racing around a Motocross track alone without any other bikes on it. That shit is way too dangerous for my taste...

[spartan300]

Hahaha That was really funny :D I´m not there... yet...It'll be there when you're ready ;]

[ChrisTuttle]

I can't remember what I had for breakfast but I can remember that shit. Ain't that a bitch! Word to the wise Chrissy don't get old brother! LOL!!

I am counting on technology to have some type of break through for anti-aging HAHA

[ChrisTuttle]

You lost quite some meathead points there, buddy...

I did for sure!

[spartan300]

I did for sure!but we're going to have to revoke your membership!! LOL!! NAH! NEVER you're to valuable an asset!

[ChrisTuttle]

but we're going to have to revoke your membership!! LOL!! NAH! NEVER you're to valuable an asset!

I was always so bad at history, dates, people's names, ect. I do not forget nutrition stuff though. HAHAH

[spartan300]

I was always so bad at history, dates, people's names, ect. I do not forget nutrition stuff though. HAHAHFor myself Chris, I have stored more USELESS information than anyone I know! LOL! Glad you're partner!

[ChrisTuttle]

For myself Chris, I have stored more USELESS information than anyone I know! LOL! Glad you're partner!

HAHAH my goes to Spam right away if it is not used in day to day. Bad I know but I do remember everything nutrition wise. HAHAH

[spartan300]

HAHAH my goes to Spam right away if it is not used in day to day. Bad I know but I do remember everything nutrition wise. HAHAHYou've forgotten more than most of us will ever know about nutrition my friend.

[ChrisTuttle]

You've forgotten more than most of us will ever know about nutrition my friend.


That is what I am here for. The funny thing is we as human actually know very little about nutrition compared to all the unknown questions. We are discovering new things each year. Very interesting.

[Altered Beast]

That is what I am here for. The funny thing is we as human actually know very little about nutrition compared to all the unknown questions. We are discovering new things each year. Very interesting.

That and the medical community putting a halt on everything with contradicting claims about food and nutrition. Just take more drugs! Fuck you, Doc =)

[ChrisTuttle]

That and the medical community putting a halt on everything with contradicting claims about food and nutrition. Just take more drugs! Fuck you, Doc =)

The reason being is nutrition is so broad. What works for someone might not work for someone else. Like the lipid debate. Someone who follows a low carb high fat diet more often sees a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. However, some had a rapid increase in both following same diet. The problem is drug companies influence everything. Docs just do not know any better. They are taught like 1 class in nutrition and is very basic. Not to mention adherence to diet recommendations is like 5%. Most people want a drug. So as a doc to help the patient statistically a pill is more effective in this day and age.

[Bean]

The reason being is nutrition is so broad. What works for someone might not work for someone else. Like the lipid debate. Someone who follows a low carb high fat diet more often sees a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. However, some had a rapid increase in both following same diet. The problem is drug companies influence everything. Docs just do not know any better. They are taught like 1 class in nutrition and is very basic. Not to mention adherence to diet recommendations is like 5%. Most people want a drug. So as a doc to help the patient statistically a pill is more effective in this day and age.

everyone needs to figure out what works for them by taking pieces and bits from things that have been said to work. A Nepalese larva may be great for catching a fish in a Nepal stream but it is not realistic for me to fish with that fresh larva in my back stream so I need to understand what the larva offers and find one that fits my needs in my stream. Don't ask my where Nepalese came from.. I am still half a sleep and weird shit is in my mind at times.

[Altered Beast]

The reason being is nutrition is so broad. What works for someone might not work for someone else. Like the lipid debate. Someone who follows a low carb high fat diet more often sees a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. However, some had a rapid increase in both following same diet. The problem is drug companies influence everything. Docs just do not know any better. They are taught like 1 class in nutrition and is very basic. Not to mention adherence to diet recommendations is like 5%. Most people want a drug. So as a doc to help the patient statistically a pill is more effective in this day and age.

That is SO TRUE! Patients do demand drugs, I saw a documentary about top doctors and their patients. The interviewer had like 10 patients in a room and asked them questions and the typical response was, "Give me a pill, Doc!"

Funny how things work!

[0RiFt0]

That is SO TRUE! Patients do demand drugs, I saw a documentary about top doctors and their patients. The interviewer had like 10 patients in a room and asked them questions and the typical response was, "Give me a pill, Doc!"

Funny how things work!

I guess it would be easier to take a pill then illicit and then maintain a regime of diet and exercise.

[ChrisTuttle]

everyone needs to figure out what works for them by taking pieces and bits from things that have been said to work. A Nepalese larva may be great for catching a fish in a Nepal stream but it is not realistic for me to fish with that fresh larva in my back stream so I need to understand what the larva offers and find one that fits my needs in my stream. Don't ask my where Nepalese came from.. I am still half a sleep and weird shit is in my mind at times.

AHHAHAH I know what you are saying. People though want to look for a universal / back and white answer for things when in most cases there is not.

[ChrisTuttle]

That is SO TRUE! Patients do demand drugs, I saw a documentary about top doctors and their patients. The interviewer had like 10 patients in a room and asked them questions and the typical response was, "Give me a pill, Doc!"

Funny how things work!

It is sad. Humanity is very reactive and not proactive. They wait until the problem is there instead of preventing it. My father is a physician and he tells me all the time about adherence. He pushes diet and exercise a lot but they do not listen. The worst part is he said a large % are even not adhering to their drug protocol 100%. SMH! How hard can it be to not forget your pill in the am! sheesh!

What is funny though is people are motivated by money and not so much if their health is deteriorating. When insurance companies started giving breaks to corporations who had employees that had their blood pressure, cholesterol, and BMI within a certain standard thus putting more money in the pockets of the employee. They were lining up at my Dad's office on how to lower everything. My Dad was like, "I have been trying to you to lower your cholesterol and blood pressure for the last 10 years and all of a sudden you want to change to save an extra 125 bucks per month?" HAHAH

[ChrisTuttle]

I guess it would be easier to take a pill then illicit and then maintain a regime of diet and exercise.

Oh yes! i DEAL WITH it everyday as well. My business is about nutrition related disease and helping people lose weight mainly. People make excuses all the time on why they cannot do this or do that. I am like, "you are going to die if you do not get your shit together." Still nothing.

[Rex]

The reason being is nutrition is so broad. What works for someone might not work for someone else. Like the lipid debate. Someone who follows a low carb high fat diet more often sees a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. However, some had a rapid increase in both following same diet. The problem is drug companies influence everything. Docs just do not know any better. They are taught like 1 class in nutrition and is very basic. Not to mention adherence to diet recommendations is like 5%. Most people want a drug. So as a doc to help the patient statistically a pill is more effective in this day and age.

The problem is nutrition isn´t like mathematics where there is only on answer to a problem. 3+5x2 = 13 That IS ALWAYS the answer and you can teach that to others.
In nutrition there are so many factors involved, you can´t make universal rules. Not every 20 year old 200 pound male is going to be healthy on 2000kcal. Person A might lose weight on 4000kcal but has high cholestrol. B might get fat on 2500 but his blood lipids are perfect.

[ChrisTuttle]

The problem is nutrition isn´t like mathematics where there is only on answer to a problem. 3+5x2 = 13 That IS ALWAYS the answer and you can teach that to others.
In nutrition there are so many factors involved, you can´t make universal rules. Not every 20 year old 200 pound male is going to be healthy on 2000kcal. Person A might lose weight on 4000kcal but has high cholestrol. B might get fat on 2500 but his blood lipids are perfect.

Most definitely! What is odd is that still so many cannot seem to grasp this. SMH

[Rex]

Most definitely! What is odd is that still so many cannot seem to grasp this. SMH

Can´t or do not want to?

[ChrisTuttle]

Can´t or do not want to?

Well as you know do not want to / refuse.

[0RiFt0]

Most definitely! What is odd is that still so many cannot seem to grasp this. SMH

Im a bit concerned. Next you will be saying Evan's arm routine won't give me arms like Evan

[spartan300]

Im a bit concerned. Next you will be saying Evan's arm routine won't give me arms like EvanNot unless there's some kind of transplant surgery we've yet to hear about ORI LOL. Chances are you building arms like Ox (regardless of whose program you're following) are slim to none. I'm not saying that with a lot of hard work and a little help from your gene pool you can't develop some impressive arms, but like Centopani's?

[Bean]

Not unless there's some kind of transplant surgery we've yet to hear about ORI LOL. Chances are you building arms like Ox (regardless of whose program you're following) are slim to none. I'm not saying that with a lot of hard work and a little help from your gene pool you can't develop some impressive arms, but like Centopani's?

Why would you want his arms anyway is my way of thinking...if I was 5'8 / 135lbs with his arms, I would look ridiculous. Your body will create the perfect body parts for your structure through work and discipline. And if you want something a little bigger and better, put the work in and see if your genetics will allow that growth. Just my thoughts.

[spartan300]

Hey Bean I had a little over 19" arm (cold) at 5'6 and they sure the fuck did'nt look like Arnold's. LOL (even after I followed his "exact" routine for almost a year)! It sure wasnt for lack of effort that's for sure. I built the best pair of arms that my genetics would allow. So the chances of having arms similiar to a genetically gifted athlete such as OX are pretty slim. Moral of the story BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE!

[Bean]

Hey Bean I had a little over 19" arm (cold) at 5'6 and they sure the fuck did'nt look like Arnold's. LOL (even after I followed his "exact" routine for almost a year)! It sure wasnt for lack of effort that's for sure. I built the best pair of arms that my genetics would allow. So the chances of having arms similiar to a genetically gifted athlete such as OX are pretty slim. Moral of the story BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE!

100% agree