View Full Version : Thoughts on Behind the Neck Pull Downs
JUGGERNAUT
01-08-07, 5:15 pm
that behind the neck Military Presses are bad for your shoulders?
My arms are still attached, so not only do I think they are not even a discussion but it pisses me off there are articles saying all this shit about "don't do that." mmm sit on the couch in fear or train? tough choice
Punisher
01-08-07, 5:16 pm
They hurt my shoulder but only because i think i pulled something
bake.silverback
01-08-07, 5:23 pm
that behind the neck Military Presses are bad for your shoulders?
My arms are still attached, so not only do I think they are not even a discussion but it pisses me off there are articles saying all this shit about "don't do that." mmm sit on the couch in fear or train? tough choice
I have done Military presses as a staple of my shoulder routine and have had no problems. If anything it made my joint stronger.
JUGGERNAUT
01-08-07, 5:25 pm
They hurt my shoulder but only because i think i pulled something
Easy fix bro, the shoulder having the most range of any other joint means taking more time; making sure it's flexible. yeah yeah, warm it up and stretch you hear so much but in the case of the shoulders, treat it like you only get one chance in an injury case and do just that.
JUGGERNAUT
01-08-07, 5:27 pm
I have done Military presses as a staple of my shoulder routine and have had no problems. If anything it made my joint stronger.
TRUTH, thank you...
hscrugger
01-08-07, 5:35 pm
having separated both shoulders, i can't do them w/o a lot of pain. i just do barbell shoulder presses and bring the barbell down to just below chin level.
brennan
Freakshow
01-08-07, 5:41 pm
my chiropractor told me to avoid them like the plauge because my neck is out of whack, but it I still do them anyway. Not the funnest things in the world, but I think they do more good than harm.
bake.silverback
01-08-07, 5:47 pm
Easy fix bro, the shoulder having the most range of any other joint means taking more time; making sure it's flexible. yeah yeah, warm it up and stretch you hear so much but in the case of the shoulders, treat it like you only get one chance in an injury case and do just that.
I always (shoulder day or not) grab a 10lb plate and do a few rotations forward and then backward on each arm. It really stretches and loosens everything p in there. I do have little pain but after the stretch its all good.
bake.silverback
01-08-07, 5:48 pm
my chiropractor told me to avoid them like the plauge because my neck is out of whack, but it I still do them anyway. Not the funnest things in the world, but I think they do more good than harm.
How far down do you go? I only come down so my elbows are paralell with the floor. Kind of like squats, not to far past level.
RowdyRobby
01-08-07, 6:22 pm
I always heard to avoid them as well, However my partner said to do them just stoping short or at 90 degrees (about the middle of the back of your head) and it has workrd wonders for my shoulder develmont.
naturalguy
01-08-07, 6:32 pm
How far down do you go? I only come down so my elbows are paralell with the floor. Kind of like squats, not to far past level.
Thats the key to avoiding injury. If you keep it to parallel or slightly below, you should be fine.
Arbalest
01-08-07, 8:17 pm
all i know, are my shoulders hurt regardless of front or behind-the-neck. lol
i would say front is easier on you though... at least they don't hurt as much i believe.
Freakshow
01-08-07, 9:23 pm
How far down do you go? I only come down so my elbows are paralell with the floor. Kind of like squats, not to far past level.
Same with you, I go to about paralell to the floor and thats it.
Mr.Totality
01-08-07, 9:36 pm
I have heard many "trainers" say go go down to the upper chest. However, I have always heard that when doing front press dont go below the n ose as it puts too much strain on your shoulders.
TYEster
01-08-07, 10:13 pm
I do the front presses simply because I don't trust myself with the wieght behind my head.
I start will the snatch/pull combo, then once in the press keep it up shy of lockout then bring it down to my chin and back up. It's about the tension on the muscle and the time it's under. "time under tension"
I think the biggest problem is guys not finding their groove down at lower weights. I dislike this exercise simply because I have problems with my left shoulder, but people wrongly conflate the fact that shoulder joints are often injured with the fact the behind-the-neck presses are a primary shoulder exercise. They can clearly put stress on the joint, but that is kind of the point. Most people just move up in weight too fast, and this is an exercise that will make you pay dearly for that.
Fuck what people say, figure it out for yourself. Make a real effort to get down some comfortable form with a low weight, and move up as you can. The best way to isolate the anterior delts is to get the bar behind your neck. Plain and simple. If you can't so it without pain, STOP, and try it to the front.
I watch guys in my gym perform this exercise everyday and I swear, I do not know how they don't injure themselves right there on the spot. I have never been a fan of them...and honestly, never felt the need to do them since I have pretty big traps for my size and have to be careful I don't train them too much otherwise I look strange as a woman with oversized traps.
If you have to do them, I would say sitting is better than standing as long as you don;t strain your neck by placing your head too far foward.. I watched a guy doing behind neck presses standing and he nearly toppled backwards onto the floor with the weights.
keep them to 90 degrees-think about it-if you go past 90 you begin to take the stress away from the muscle belly and place more on the tendon insertion into the joint. You will always have some stress into the joint but keeping things to 90 (or a little less) will help to save those shoulders.
G Diesel
01-09-07, 9:18 am
I like them a lot, but only do them every 4-6 workouts... Great for overall variety in my opinion. My safe range of motion is from full extension to a point where the bar is just behind my head. Peace, G
shit, i love em, gives your shoulders a great stretch with moderately low weights that way you can explode using the higher weights for your normal sets. i do 2 plates in front, and a plate and 25s behind.
that behind the neck Military Presses are bad for your shoulders?
My arms are still attached, so not only do I think they are not even a discussion but it pisses me off there are articles saying all this shit about "don't do that." mmm sit on the couch in fear or train? tough choice
I do them on smith machine to change up my routine and had no problems yet.
alkalineman
01-09-07, 11:58 pm
this may be a bit off topic but would it be overkill to do behind the neck presses and regular military presses in the same workout? Whenever I do behind the neck presses it feels very strange, like I shouldn't be doing that movement. I'll continue to do them until something hurts, maybe trying not to let the bar go down as far.
Machine
01-12-07, 11:46 am
You can get hurt getting out of bed or walking your doggie. The simple truth is we must elevate first out concept of proper training then we can focus on optimal results through individual movements. Day one is about defining our ultimate goal. Every day subsequent to that is no more than executing the plan that is most suited to deliver you to promise land. To say something works or doesn't work is like asking if someone is guilty or innocent of a crime. These simplistic terms really dont apply in a practical sense. Everything works , everyone is guilty , you need only commit to one path or another to reap the rewards of your effort.Perform every rep and set with a greater goal as your guiding force and you will find that all things are possible and your imagination is your only limiting factor. Destroy yourself to create something new , something this world can't explain away , then you will be undefinable. You will be a champion.
BeastofBurden
01-12-07, 4:49 pm
Pure genius man..
You can get hurt getting out of bed or walking your doggie. The simple truth is we must elevate first out concept of proper training then we can focus on optimal results through individual movements. Day one is about defining our ultimate goal. Every day subsequent to that is no more than executing the plan that is most suited to deliver you to promise land. To say something works or doesn't work is like asking if someone is guilty or innocent of a crime. These simplistic terms really dont apply in a practical sense. Everything works , everyone is guilty , you need only commit to one path or another to reap the rewards of your effort.Perform every rep and set with a greater goal as your guiding force and you will find that all things are possible and your imagination is your only limiting factor. Destroy yourself to create something new , something this world can't explain away , then you will be undefinable. You will be a champion.
Damn straight... Too many people are too worried about getting hurt. Granted, everyone shouldn't do something stupid like using piss poor form on a squat when you have about 2 times your body weight, but some things you should not shelter yourself from. I've heard they are bad for the shoulder like so many other people, but doesn't the body's ligaments and joints strengthen when stretched and strained just like a muscle?
Pokoritel
01-18-07, 1:11 am
Good or Bad I dont believe in any of that crap that this exercise is bad or that one is better then this one. I just listen to my body and do what it wants me to do. Every exercise is a great exercise if used correctly.
Had serious shoulder injuries because of wrestling. If it didnt feel like my shoulder joints were going to explode when i do them they'd definitely be part of my workout
I personally dont like them because I have authritis in my right shoulder from football. So I do the in front of me...
determined
01-18-07, 9:59 am
Did 225 for three sets of eight last night and I am still alive.
ldskenpo
01-18-07, 10:30 am
I keep my elbows under the bar, and only go just below head level to just under lockout, I am recovering from shoulder injury and say these have helped my rehab.
Behind the neck presses are like behind the neck pull-downs and even like "never let your knee go over your toe" or "only go down to 90 degrees when squatting" or how some PHD from Florida Atlantic University stated, "Don't do the military behind-the-neck press.....this movement creates alot of stress on the rotator cuff inside your shoulder joint and can cause a tear."...kinda stupid in the practical world though, most of these doctors never have even touched a plate in their life, nor could they even comprehend what we do. As a personal trainer (in training) I know that "scientifically" it could pose some problems, but this exercise has been a staple in some of the greats workouts. The "truth" is it's OK! SOME can do these moves and benefit, others can't (if they have joint problems, flexibility issues, range of motion issues, etc.) For some people it's not advisable to walk two miles at a fast pace...others can climb Mt. Everest with no harmful side effects.
Know what the biggest cause of shoulder problems is??? Doing too much pressing and pushing and not an equal amount of pulling.
If you feel you are lacking flexibility or have had previous shoulder injuries i suggest simply switching to the regular military or DB press.
Guardian
03-10-07, 9:46 am
When going heavy doing BNMP, having a spotter is a really good idea.
Can imagine something wrong with your ego attached and your spotter not around.
I saw Levrone doing it on Smith Machine in his videos, he's a keen follower of it.
Jeff the Repper
03-10-07, 10:11 am
I used to do them when I was younger. I broke my shoulder in a bike accident now they really bother me, so I only BB press to front.
I definately agree with you on this one. This exercise puts my arms in a uncomfortable position and causes pain in my shoulders (rotator cuffs).
IRN-NML
03-10-07, 10:47 am
They're good but like close grip benches, require more concentration with a weight you know for sure you can complete x # of reps in your set; otherwide, make sure you have a spot. Go slow enough and light enough early on to see if they give you shoulder issues, or to build up shoulder strength. Pulldowns behind the neck, imho are worse; more chances for lousy form and too much ego going for too much weight.
I think this is one of those exercises you will get mixed responses on. Personally, I think there are way better and more safer alternatives, but many will also swear by this exercise too. I never liked them, never had an interest in doing them..so, I never bothered with them. I think when people start doing them heavy, it just doesnt look right..it looks like some serious damage can happen at any moment. I see guys do them on the lat pulldown as well and that looks awkward to me because they throw their head too far foward and their arms are all out of whack.
For me, not my thing..for many others, they love it...trial and error. If you do it, and it doesnt feel right to you, then don't do it anymore. If you think its working for ya, then just be careful and watch your form and don't go too heavy..focus more on the controlled movement instead of the weight.
Torque757
03-10-07, 1:39 pm
How far down do you go? I only come down so my elbows are paralell with the floor. Kind of like squats, not to far past level.
Like squats? I always do my squats ATG, and they feel alot better on my knees and I get alot more out of the movement.
this really only applies to some people...yes you can injure your shoulder goijg behind the head because the action of bringing your shoulders back AND behind at the same times may result in the tentons of the rotator cuff being pinched. BUT like i said this only happens in some people or to people who have previously bee injured. so i say that as long as it doesn't hurt you then go for it. but it it does it's your body telling you to stop doing it and stick with coming down in front.
darkside64
03-10-07, 2:07 pm
I think that behind the neck presses is a good exercise, but easy to get hurt on. Of course your going to fuck up your shoulder if you pile on weight and dont warm up properly. However if you get 2-3 warm up sets in, this exercise is a solid exercise.
moreiron
03-10-07, 2:15 pm
i used to use them and hurt my shoulder but when i watched how that strongman guy does them the pudzanofski guy the 3 time world strongman he has good technique and he does them with about 400 pounds.
so if he is doing them i think they are fine
I've done them before and have had no problems with them. I "scarped" the back of my head and went to just below the knot in the back of my head. When I was lifting with big45s in the summer he would do these also with no problems while he had had shoulder problems in the past. As long as you don't go too heavy and bring the bar down very close you your head you should be fine
Hardcore Hoskins
03-10-07, 3:38 pm
Dude i'm gonna go with you on this one. Behind the neck is just as good as the front. The people who complain they hurt i say then don't do them. i do them both ways. just keep pushin anyway you can. Move that danm weight!!
ANewBreed
03-28-07, 3:39 am
Post 'em...I'm aware of the risk involved in doing them, but does anyone actually prefer behind the neck?
Merouria
03-28-07, 3:52 am
Oh hell yeah man ... i do alternating sets between the front and back but make sure you don't heave that bar down on your neck.
Behind the neck is good if you do them properly, but so many people just kind of yank the thing down when they do them that it's dangerous.
Barring any previous injuries, behind the neck presses/pulldowns are very effective when done properly. Just my 2 cents.
I don't see the point of this exercise, I just bring the bar to my chest and get a great pump in my lats and my mid back. I'd never go behind me head, I like my shoulders.
brandona
03-28-07, 1:41 pm
on presses, i only go behind the head right now...on pulldowns i go to the front cause i pull down too hard and i dont want to knock my self out...my sholders dont like anything...fuck em, im the boss
-B
Reacher34
03-28-07, 2:31 pm
I've just recently incorporated behind the neck presses to switch things up. After hearing numerous people say that they are terrible for you....i loved doing them. I could really feel the whole shoulder come into play instead of primarily using the front delt. The key is control though. I do em on a smith machine and use a weight that is heavy, but without sacrificing control. Bring it down until the arm is parallel or just slightly lower and there shouldn't be any pain. I think the mind-muscle connection is important on this one so you can stay safe and not just put unnecessary torque on your shoulder.
Oh, by the way i do these after the regular military press so i still get to use more poundage.
Pokoritel
03-28-07, 3:32 pm
that behind the neck Military Presses are bad for your shoulders?
My arms are still attached, so not only do I think they are not even a discussion but it pisses me off there are articles saying all this shit about "don't do that." mmm sit on the couch in fear or train? tough choice
If you see results and it aint botherin you do them man. Its the same thing with benching, some people dont do them cause it just beats the shit out of their delts to much where others do it without a problem.
i don't do them for the same reason most that dont do them, shoulder injuries. even though i am fully recovered my shoulders let me know what exercises i can and cannot do.
Big Wides
03-28-07, 6:16 pm
i throw them in every now and then forces you to have perfect form and the squeeze on your lats is something that you can't get on the front pulldowns.
spartan300
03-28-07, 6:41 pm
you want to be able to do this for the next 40 or 50 years. So choose wisely.
I personally dont do them because i rarely have a spot on shoulder day, but because this thread mentions behind the neck pulldowns ive gotta touch on that topic. I find behind the neck chins far superior to front chins. First off you cannot cheat as much, i personally feel it in my lats much more, and its way harder. I suggest trying these, especially if you prefer pressing behind the neck.
Mr.Totality
03-28-07, 9:19 pm
I always (shoulder day or not) grab a 10lb plate and do a few rotations forward and then backward on each arm. It really stretches and loosens everything p in there. I do have little pain but after the stretch its all good.
I have started the same pattern. I have had 3 shoulder operations and any extra warm up and stretch for me is a positive