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7
05-31-07, 1:47 pm
Many of us here are familiar with Rollins and this quote: "Friends may come and go, but 200 pounds is always 200 pounds." Straight to the point and reassuring, to say the least.

Here's my question. Is 200 pounds really 200 pounds? I briefly mentioned this in another post, but I thought it might be worthwhile to grapple with it a bit more, see if we could get a discussion going.

Yes, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds, but it doesn't always feel like 200 pounds? On a good day, 200 pounds feel lighter. On an off day, much heavier. Do our muscles know the difference or is it all in our heads? Before anyone accuses me of being speculative for the sake of being speculative, let me ground this observation in something concrete.

Many dieters rely on the scale. They'll step on it every day to see how they're progressing. There's something comforting about that number. The scale doesn't lie. It tells you exactly what you weigh in no uncertain terms and in a way that's strangely reassuring. 200 pounds is 200 pounds, after all, right? But the experienced dieter knows that you don't go by the scale. After all, though the scale spits out a number to you, it doesn't care whether or not you're losing bodyfat or muscle. But the veteran bodybuilder relies on his instincts, his observations. He looks at himself in the mirror. He sees how he's moving the notches on his belt. He's feeling how loose the shirt is becoming around his neck. He's relying on how things feel. In other words, 200 pounds doesn't feel like 200 pounds. This, to me, is an important distinction between "is" and "feels".

ghost
05-31-07, 1:51 pm
i have seen other lifters walking up to a loaded up bar while saying to themselves, "it's only 135" over and over again...trying to convince themselves that it isnt actually a LOT of weight that is on there...i guess if your perception of reality changes...it helps. to me, reality is always reality...and weightlifting is always...bring the weight down..then back up.

7
05-31-07, 1:55 pm
i have seen other lifters walking up to a loaded up bar while saying to themselves, "it's only 135" over and over again...trying to convince themselves that it isnt actually a LOT of weight that is on there...i guess if your perception of reality changes...it helps. to me, reality is always reality...and weightlifting is always...bring the weight down..then back up.

Without going into an ontological debate, yes, empirically speaking, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds. My point was, that it doesn't always "feel" the same. The gap between "is" and "feels" is what I was trying to address and how that might matter to us.

brandonA
05-31-07, 1:55 pm
I agree bro...It's all feel...I did squats on tuesday and i did a warm up set with 225, did not feel heavy...slap on 255 for my working set....shit felt like i added 100 pounds.....I do not feel that I weight 288 pounds, i did not feel that I weighted 312 pounds...In my mind there was no way i was that heavy.....I look in the mirror and there is a 288 pound man staring back, but in my mind, what i feel...is much less....

-B

brandonA
05-31-07, 1:59 pm
Without going into an ontological debate, yes, empirically speaking, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds. My point was, that it doesn't always "feel" the same. The gap between "is" and "feels" is what I was trying to address and how that might matter to us.


It matters alot...I have to believe that the weight is "light"...If for one second the though crosses my mind that this is heavy...I will fail in my lift....If I pick up the bar and my brain says "shit, this is lot of weight", I rack it, walk away and come back to it.....200 must never feel like 200....for me right now it must feel like 100....mind over matter....

-B

widdlewade44
05-31-07, 2:00 pm
The weight is always the same but some days you're really able to kick the day lights out of the iron...

On those days when it's 'too heavy' often times the diet is off, maybe you're under the weather or stressed, I always take solace in the log book; you can often times figure out 'what went wrong' or what went right ;)

Helps to keep the mental energy up and keep making progress. And progress is what it's all about. Peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44

7
05-31-07, 2:00 pm
I agree bro...It's all feel...I did squats on tuesday and i did a warm up set with 225, did not feel heavy...slap on 255 for my working set....shit felt like i added 100 pounds.....I do not feel that I weight 288 pounds, i did not feel that I weighted 312 pounds...In my mind there was no way i was that heavy.....I look in the mirror and there is a 288 pound man staring back, but in my mind, what i feel...is much less....

-B

Precisely. For example, I may squat 495 and 565. Some days, that 565 will feel more than 70 pounds heavier, some days less depending on what I've eaten, what else I've trained, etc. What I was trying to get at was that sometimes, it's better not to think in absolute terms (200 pounds is always 200 pounds) but rather in relative terms (200 pounds may not feel like 200 pounds). For the dieter, worry less about how much you weigh in absolute terms, but how things fit on you or how you look in relative terms.

ghost
05-31-07, 2:01 pm
Without going into an ontological debate, yes, empirically speaking, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds. My point was, that it doesn't always "feel" the same. The gap between "is" and "feels" is what I was trying to address and how that might matter to us.

i understand your point exactly. and i answered the question you posed.

no, it doesnt always feel the same. some days you feel stronger and others you feel weaker.

7
05-31-07, 2:03 pm
It matters alot...I have to believe that the weight is "light"...If for one second the though crosses my mind that this is heavy...I will fail in my lift....If I pick up the bar and my brain says "shit, this is lot of weight", I rack it, walk away and come back to it.....200 must never feel like 200....for me right now it must feel like 100....mind over matter....

-B

Brandona, I agree with you, but you're talking about something different. The point of this thread was not to discuss the importance of mind over matter, but rather, the importance of distinguishing between absolute and relative, and terms like this.

ironshaolin
05-31-07, 2:03 pm
It's all relevant. 200lbs is always 200lbs, but if you have a 1rep max of 600, 200 is gonna feel pretty light. On the same side, if you havea 1 rep max of 185, 200 is gonna feel impossibly heavy.

7
05-31-07, 2:06 pm
i understand your point exactly. and i answered the question you posed.

no, it doesnt always feel the same. some days you feel stronger and others you feel weaker.

Yes, that's right rcrott1. But what's the next step for you? That's what I'm interested in. Start with a basic observation, then apply it in some way to what we do. Know what I mean?

ghost
05-31-07, 2:06 pm
Brandona, I agree with you, but you're talking about something different. The point of this thread was not to discuss the importance of mind over matter, but rather, the importance of distinguishing between absolute and relative, and terms like this.

i feel that brandon is talking about the exact same thing..they are linked. if you feel stronger...then you are MENTALLY telling yourself that you can do this and it will feel easier than normal..so they are linked.

philroy
05-31-07, 2:08 pm
i've had to say that to yself over and over sometimes. when carb cycling, and you're only taking in about 30 carbs a day... it feels like a literal ton of weight is on your chest, or on your traps,when in all reality it's only a quarter of that. alot of things in life are pure mentality... powerbuilding is somewhere in between.

7
05-31-07, 2:10 pm
i feel that brandon is talking about the exact same thing..they are linked. if you feel stronger...then you are MENTALLY telling yourself that you can do this and it will feel easier than normal..so they are linked.

I give up. I think you and brandona are talking about the same thing, true, but neither of you are necessarily addressing the main point of my argument.

ghost
05-31-07, 2:12 pm
we both already addressed the main point.

JMC
05-31-07, 2:15 pm
This is such a crock of shit! I've had about enough of this rhetoric and shtick. I'm throwing the bullshit flag out!!! This is ANOTHER worthless argument geared at mind-numbing over thought into every finite detail. ENOUGH ALREADY! Again sorry, I usually keep this shit inside, but I feel this garbage is becoming counterproductive.

7
05-31-07, 2:17 pm
This is such a crock of shit! I've had about enough of this rhetoric and shtick. I'm throwing the bullshit flag out!!! This is ANOTHER worthless argument geared at mind-numbing over thought into every finite detail. ENOUGH ALREADY! Again sorry, I usually keep this shit inside, but I feel this garbage is becoming counterproductive.

No offense, but then why are you reading and posting here? I understand my posts may not be to everyone's liking.

BamBam
05-31-07, 2:18 pm
I know that from time to time that 200 lbs aint always 200 lbs. There is no way...Hell, I may find some big ass scale and put the bar on there and it will come out to 200 lbs, but when I am tired, hungry, sick..etc..then 200 dont feel like 200...it feels like 300 or 400...I mean damn...it sucks. It gets me going cuz some days I throw up the 315 on bench with some ease...and then there are days that I do it and I get like 4 reps?! I know exactly what you are saying. It IS mental, not physical. Our muscles dont know exactly how much weight we have on the bar...It's not like we put the weight on, and when the pressure is on our muscles are like.."oh, ok...we got 225 lbs on here and a clip on both sides." NO- our muscles understand only one thing...the increase or decrease in that pressure...not the EXACT number.

Hope that helps...if not...Just watch Ronnnie Coleman...I think we have all heard him yell "LIGHTWEIGHT!"

Bam-

BamBam
05-31-07, 2:21 pm
And trust me...you wanna talk about using things other than the scale to see progress..Just go to my Journey and see what I mean...i went from like a 38-40 waist, and now I am a 34 easy. When I did my first show I never touched a scale...I looked in the mirror. If I saw more abs, and more definition then I was going on the right track..if I lost some striations or veins here and there...then I was going the wrong way. THE MIRROR IS OUR BEST FRIEND AND WORST ENEMY! I had to say that...

JMC
05-31-07, 2:23 pm
No offense, but then why are you reading and posting here? I understand my posts may not be to everyone's liking.

I don't know for sure...you tell me. Probably the same reason you feel the need to post your philosophies about everything; you feel it is in the best interest of the FORVM as I felt the need to express that thought for that same reason.

7
05-31-07, 2:25 pm
And trust me...you wanna talk about using things other than the scale to see progress..Just go to my Journey and see what I mean...i went from like a 38-40 waist, and now I am a 34 easy. When I did my first show I never touched a scale...I looked in the mirror. If I saw more abs, and more definition then I was going on the right track..if I lost some striations or veins here and there...then I was going the wrong way. THE MIRROR IS OUR BEST FRIEND AND WORST ENEMY! I had to say that...

Exactly. I was using the "200 pounds" as a way to discuss the importance of relying on judgment, not a scale. Absolutes are fine every now and then, but never discount judgment, however relative it might be. That was my main point.

Big Rich
05-31-07, 2:26 pm
This is such a crock of shit! I've had about enough of this rhetoric and shtick. I'm throwing the bullshit flag out!!! This is ANOTHER worthless argument geared at mind-numbing over thought into every finite detail. ENOUGH ALREADY! Again sorry, I usually keep this shit inside, but I feel this garbage is becoming counterproductive.

+1
Maybe I'm just too simple to "appreciate" these posts... But there is no real content and they are just using up training & nutrition space here.

7
05-31-07, 2:27 pm
I don't know for sure...you tell me. Probably the same reason you feel the need to post your philosophies about everything; you feel it is in the best interest of the FORVM as I felt the need to express that thought for that same reason.

I really don't know man. Why question my motives and motivations? What's it to you? Provided I don't break any forum rules, can't I post what I like? What I feel is imoprtant? Who are you and why are you calling me out? Are my posts not welcome here?

7
05-31-07, 2:29 pm
+1
Maybe I'm just too simple to "appreciate" these posts... But there is no real content and they are just using up training & nutrition space here.

Big Rich, I respect where you're coming from. But I ask you respect where I'm coming from. Though our perspectives are different, is yours inherently better than mine? Are you the final arbiter to determine whether or not there is "real content" in my posts? If you don't like my posts, why feel the need to post in my threads? I say this will all due respect.

JMC
05-31-07, 2:31 pm
I really don't know man. Why question my motives and motivations? What's it to you? Provided I don't break any forum rules, can't I post what I like? What I feel is imoprtant? Who are you and why are you calling me out? Are my posts not welcome here?

You are right. You have not broken the rules. I may disagree with what you say, your content, your intent, what have you, I will keep it to myself.

7
05-31-07, 2:38 pm
You are right. You have not broken the rules. I may disagree with what you say, your content, your intent, what have you, I will keep it to myself.

JMC, if you disagree with me, by all means, disagree. Take my arguments and pick them apart. I would really encourage it. Debate and discussion is what makes this place great. But to dismiss someone's approach or perspective as "bullshit", without addressing specifics, is the easy way out. It also serves to stifle dissenting opinions or voices. I've read some of your posts and I know you are someone who really thinks things through and I respect that. Are we cool?

BamBam
05-31-07, 2:49 pm
Exactly. I was using the "200 pounds" as a way to discuss the importance of relying on judgment, not a scale. Absolutes are fine every now and then, but never discount judgment, however relative it might be. That was my main point.

Trust me...I am all about this thread...I agree with your questions and see where you are coming from. My trainer raised these questions too and always told me "Mirror before scale...as easy as breakfast before lunch!"

ncsu06
05-31-07, 3:36 pm
"7" i'm going to have to go with the whole mind over matter argument on this one bro...200 lbs is always 200 lbs...yes this is scientific fact blah blah blah...and your argument is that does it always FEEL like 200 lbs...and of course no...the arguments that have been stated IMO have been good solid arguments about on a good day it feels like and on a bad day it feels heavy....or the argument that with the fact that we psyche ourselves out to beleive that the 200 lbs feels like a feather....it really is all about mind over matter...the mind has to the lift the weight before the body does...if the mind is defeated the body is defeated...on good days when the wieght is light it is because our minds believe that it is light...on our bad days the mind believes we are having a bad day creating this false sense of 200=400....so in the argument of seperating "is" and "feels" IMO it is all completely "mind over matter" without the "mind" there would be no "body"...good luck brothers

gnoll5
05-31-07, 3:40 pm
200 lbs of shit weighs the same as 200lbs of shine bro. maybe our mental state projects how its gonna feel, but its still the same 200 lbs.

karmazon
05-31-07, 4:28 pm
I believe you're taking the quote out of context and too literally. What Rollins meant was that iron is "great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver" and that is always there for you, unlike humans. He didn't mean literally "200 pounds is 200 pounds because the gravitational pull is constant".

7
05-31-07, 4:53 pm
I believe you're taking the quote out of context and too literally. What Rollins meant was that iron is "great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver" and that is always there for you, unlike humans. He didn't mean literally "200 pounds is 200 pounds because the gravitational pull is constant".

I understand that, karmazon. Like I said, I was using the quote merely as a springboard for a different kind of discussion, and not one centering on Rollins or his particular philosophies.

7
05-31-07, 4:57 pm
200 lbs of shit weighs the same as 200lbs of shine bro. maybe our mental state projects how its gonna feel, but its still the same 200 lbs.

Yes, I know. This is exactly one of my tangential points.

But to elaborate, it's not just a matter of our "mental state". I agree with the other posters here, there is an element of mind over matter which is important for every athlete. Thinking along these lines, one question we can ask is, how to we maximize our performance? How do we shape "reality" to work in our favor? Here are some ideas.

Sleep. Research shows that getting enough sleep improves performance. If you're getting 6 hours of sleep, perhaps you should experiment with 7 (just as you would experiment with how many grams of protein you get daily). That one extra hour could add 5% or more to your lifts. Meals. Depending on your pre-workout nutrition, finding an ideal blend that suits you could increase your performance in the gym and on stage. Things like sleep, food, stress and the like--they're often overlooked. But in reality, addressing these issues could dramatically improve your mental state and your performance in the gym.

JUGGERNAUT
05-31-07, 6:53 pm
The weight is always the same but some days you're really able to kick the day lights out of the iron...

On those days when it's 'too heavy' often times the diet is off, maybe you're under the weather or stressed, I always take solace in the log book; you can often times figure out 'what went wrong' or what went right ;)

Helps to keep the mental energy up and keep making progress. And progress is what it's all about. Peace.

Kevin
widdlewade44
good stuff Kevin

dIdDy
05-31-07, 9:02 pm
Henry is right, 200lbs IS ALWYAS 200lbs. The only thing that changes is US and how WE RELATE to that 200lbs...

Torque757
05-31-07, 9:21 pm
Many of us here are familiar with Rollins and this quote: "Friends may come and go, but 200 pounds is always 200 pounds." Straight to the point and reassuring, to say the least.

Here's my question. Is 200 pounds really 200 pounds? I briefly mentioned this in another post, but I thought it might be worthwhile to grapple with it a bit more, see if we could get a discussion going.

Yes, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds, but it doesn't always feel like 200 pounds? On a good day, 200 pounds feel lighter. On an off day, much heavier. Do our muscles know the difference or is it all in our heads? Before anyone accuses me of being speculative for the sake of being speculative, let me ground this observation in something concrete.

Many dieters rely on the scale. They'll step on it every day to see how they're progressing. There's something comforting about that number. The scale doesn't lie. It tells you exactly what you weigh in no uncertain terms and in a way that's strangely reassuring. 200 pounds is 200 pounds, after all, right? But the experienced dieter knows that you don't go by the scale. After all, though the scale spits out a number to you, it doesn't care whether or not you're losing bodyfat or muscle. But the veteran bodybuilder relies on his instincts, his observations. He looks at himself in the mirror. He sees how he's moving the notches on his belt. He's feeling how loose the shirt is becoming around his neck. He's relying on how things feel. In other words, 200 pounds doesn't feel like 200 pounds. This, to me, is an important distinction between "is" and "feels".


O.K. so 200 lbs is always 200 lbs, but doesnt always feel that way... yea, that whole paragraph was necessary to get taht point across, and the whole esnueing"discussion". Why does something that simple have to be made into something so complex, then regurgetated in a different format time and time and again?

brandonA
05-31-07, 9:34 pm
cause we'er board.......lol.........

-B

k1usa
05-31-07, 10:49 pm
some days I get a great pump from flys with 60lb DB's...other days...it takes 95 or 100.....its all depending on mood..diet...rest...or lack of....lots of factors...but...its at least to me...all about the pump...what ever it takes...is what I work with.....some days cables...others....BB......change the fucker up....never get board....

Liftbig21
05-31-07, 11:02 pm
I havent posted much on the Forvm lately due to nothing of intrest nor worthy of posting.And this is one of those threads,and I know Im gonna get the " THen why are you reading it?".I'm posting to give my 2 cents,why? because I can.7 with all due Respect brother your getting just like all the anaylists who sit down all day and think about us eating all this meat and how in 37 years 3 days and 23 hours were gonna have a heart attack and how our joints will be shot when were 65.Point blank STOP THINKING START DOING!..Bodybuilding is a verb its something you do,not something you sit around and think about or philophise about.Weight is weight no matter if you do it 1 time or 10 times,everyone has good days and bad days no matter how you feel what color you are or who the fuck you are the weight doesnt give a fuck it never changes,period.Not to come across like a F'n prick but im sittin here goin crazy over some of these posts,Get a new hobby or fuckin write a book on this or some shit maybe itll get you rich but im tired of seein this shit.Clear your mind pile on the weights shut up and fucking train.

mjsef88
05-31-07, 11:16 pm
then 200 dont feel like 200...it feels like 300 or 400...I mean damn...it sucks.

yes it does, but this is why we push through. This is why we strive with ever fiber of our being to rise above the weight and dominate. I've been a BlackFlag/Rollins fan for a long time, when i started out lifting i happened to be reading a couple of his books and found that quote/writing. completely changed my outlook. No, 200lbs will not always feel like 200lbs, but in reality (physically, like on a scale) it is. We will not always feel like we did our "best", but we are doing it. we are pushing.

Crash
06-01-07, 12:12 am
Look Dude. I understand you wanting to wax philosophical and all, but what ever hapenend to the K.I.S.S. philosophy that you were preaching about. It doesn't matter if it's 2lbs. 200lbs. or 2000lbs. It is, what it is, what it is. And either you lift it, or you don't. So strap your self in, and get busy ripping that shit.

Maccabee
06-01-07, 1:21 am
I can understand what your saying because a while back. I loaded up the bar with 275 lbs. I was supposed to deadlift that for one rep. However, I didnt realize, but my friend who was a beginner at the time put the wrong weight on while I was drinking water. I ended up deadlifting like 300 for one rep.

That was strange to me because I prepared my body to do 275, yet it ended up being 300. The mind is a powerful weapon.

BamBam
06-01-07, 2:30 am
The mind is a powerful weapon.

Damn right bro

Bam Bam
06-01-07, 2:39 am
I can understand what your saying because a while back. I loaded up the bar with 275 lbs. I was supposed to deadlift that for one rep. However, I didnt realize, but my friend who was a beginner at the time put the wrong weight on while I was drinking water. I ended up deadlifting like 300 for one rep.

That was strange to me because I prepared my body to do 275, yet it ended up being 300. The mind is a powerful weapon.

AHA! And there is the answer. Train your minds similar to how you train your muscles and the results are amazing.

violator
06-01-07, 7:15 am
reading this reminded me of a little story i heard a while ago about the mind body connection called 'the 600 pound barrier'
There was an olympic russian powerlifter thatset the powerlifting record at 600pounds for deading back in the 80s. No matter how hard he tried, he couldnt seem to push thru the plateau of 600. The media reacted by stating that the human body couldnt lift more than 600 as it was the human endurance limit, and that was that.
one day at max out set, the lifters trainer put 615 on the bar without telling the lifter and low and behold he set a new record.
I cant remember the lifters name, if anyone can, let me know.
but the point is this, if we can create it in our minds and believe it to be true in our reality, then it will manifest in all its glory.
unfortunatley, this works in the converse as well, which is the way weve been conditioned to think by the media and the outside world.

thats one of the reasons why i love this forvm so much, almost every individual here is focused on what they want and believe in themselves.

fuck 600, we want it all.

peace

Dingo
06-01-07, 11:08 am
Precisely. For example, I may squat 495 and 565. Some days, that 565 will feel more than 70 pounds heavier, some days less depending on what I've eaten, what else I've trained, etc. What I was trying to get at was that sometimes, it's better not to think in absolute terms (200 pounds is always 200 pounds) but rather in relative terms (200 pounds may not feel like 200 pounds). For the dieter, worry less about how much you weigh in absolute terms, but how things fit on you or how you look in relative terms.

had a similar discussion a couple weeks back with my girl regarding the dumbells. i told her not to think of the numbers on them in terms of poundages, just as a notch of progress. if you know you can move that one that says 35 on it then do it.

i get the clothes statement too, i may only be reaching 200lbs again, but having to toss out all my old jeans because my legs don't fit says more than a scale ever will.

D-Rock
06-01-07, 4:33 pm
200lbs is always 200lbs sometimes it feels of more or less, the beauty of weight not changing is that you do. So no matter how much 200lbs is you can always grow beyond it.

k1usa
06-01-07, 4:50 pm
I havent posted much on the Forvm lately due to nothing of intrest nor worthy of posting.And this is one of those threads,and I know Im gonna get the " THen why are you reading it?".I'm posting to give my 2 cents,why? because I can.7 with all due Respect brother your getting just like all the anaylists who sit down all day and think about us eating all this meat and how in 37 years 3 days and 23 hours were gonna have a heart attack and how our joints will be shot when were 65.Point blank STOP THINKING START DOING!..Bodybuilding is a verb its something you do,not something you sit around and think about or philophise about.Weight is weight no matter if you do it 1 time or 10 times,everyone has good days and bad days no matter how you feel what color you are or who the fuck you are the weight doesnt give a fuck it never changes,period.Not to come across like a F'n prick but im sittin here goin crazy over some of these posts,Get a new hobby or fuckin write a book on this or some shit maybe itll get you rich but im tired of seein this shit.Clear your mind pile on the weights shut up and fucking train.


Bro....A-friggen-men....7 has some interesting post...but lets face it....when we hear thoughts from Machine....G Diesel...Big Ant..these are fellows we know and are more trusting of based on thier tenure on the forum....I think being patient with new members is a good thing...but new members need to be a bit humble and blend in and get to know the gang here....This forum is about iron....pushing our bodies....eating....training techniques...its all about what we do in the gym...and sometimes out of the gym as well...but its really rather simple....we train...try to rest and eat right...and be open minded to new methods and advice. I think what you said here reminds me of what Machine posted a while back....lets just train....talk to me about diet...not theory .....anyway.....Im with you here bro.....just trying to be patient though

kyderz
07-05-07, 7:01 am
Wow, I sure hope this thing is stopped from here on out, and 7 stops making bullshit threads like this.

Don't mean to call you out man, but honestly I'd have to say stop trying to sound like a fucking God or something.

Talk like a normal person, and keep it down to earth.

"That isn't what I was talking about, because I was trying to fool you" or "No man, you make no sense because that does not answer my question".

STFU already, and try something:

When you feel like taking some pointless quote or some other lame thing to talk about and making a new pointless thread about it, do 500 pushups, or better yet, leave your house and run.

Come back, and eat some food.

Then go to sleep.

This way, you do not keep taking up space on the forum.

Thanks.

Oh by the way....that was said with "all due respect".

The_Beast
07-05-07, 7:34 am
Bro....A-friggen-men....7 has some interesting post...but lets face it....when we hear thoughts from Machine....G Diesel...Big Ant..these are fellows we know and are more trusting of based on thier tenure on the forum....I think being patient with new members is a good thing...but new members need to be a bit humble and blend in and get to know the gang here....This forum is about iron....pushing our bodies....eating....training techniques...its all about what we do in the gym...and sometimes out of the gym as well...but its really rather simple....we train...try to rest and eat right...and be open minded to new methods and advice. I think what you said here reminds me of what Machine posted a while back....lets just train....talk to me about diet...not theory .....anyway.....Im with you here bro.....just trying to be patient though

Right on Bro. "7" Try to keep everything Short and Sweet. Pushing the Weight in the Gym and Dieting, isnt Rocket Science, and it shouldnt be brought up to be. I feel many were Replying to your Post, with great responses, and you were denying them trying to get too in-depth about a worthless topic. If you want to waste time, and forum space with pointless discussions like this one, go on to Bodybuilding.com, there forum was pretty much fucked from the start anyway. Everyone has right's to there own oppinions and Freedoms of Speech, but damn dude, dont over-due it...

Well, all in all, I feel this is a Perfect time to post the old Saying:
"Some things are better left unsaid..."

and Leave it at that.

Stay Strong,
The_Beast

7
07-05-07, 10:57 am
The level of intolerance here is troubling.

Torque757
07-05-07, 8:49 pm
The level of intolerance here is troubling.

Intolerance of what exactly?

adidas
07-05-07, 9:36 pm
in all actuallity 200lbs is not always 200lbs...
it may be heavier or lighter in reality due to the fact that oly bars differ in wt or the plates chossen may not be the actual list wt printed on it. there is ussually some lee-way in production specs when companies produce these products, plus concider wear and tear and a 45 lb plate could easily wt 40lbs or it may come off the line at 47lbs. it all depends on the company and what is with in there spec limits.

so in all honesty 200lbs may not be 200lbs.
which is another reason why you may feel like a monster one day and an infact the next.

Draga
07-06-07, 8:27 pm
towards the end of the week cycle i always find weigh to be heavy and when begin the next week exercise the weight feeels so light so i slap on a bit more and since i broke my muscle to lift x amount it feels light but once i slap that bit extra on x amount + slap on extra weight really brings back those last week feelings

adidas
07-06-07, 9:19 pm
towards the end of the week cycle i always find weigh to be heavy and when begin the next week exercise the weight feeels so light so i slap on a bit more and since i broke my muscle to lift x amount it feels light but once i slap that bit extra on x amount + slap on extra weight really brings back those last week feelings

punctuation???

7
11-04-09, 4:21 pm
in all actuallity 200lbs is not always 200lbs...
it may be heavier or lighter in reality due to the fact that oly bars differ in wt or the plates chossen may not be the actual list wt printed on it. there is ussually some lee-way in production specs when companies produce these products, plus concider wear and tear and a 45 lb plate could easily wt 40lbs or it may come off the line at 47lbs. it all depends on the company and what is with in there spec limits.

so in all honesty 200lbs may not be 200lbs.
which is another reason why you may feel like a monster one day and an infact the next.

You're talking about technical, tangible things adidas. I was talking about intangibles, such as the perception of weight. Of course, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds. But does 200 pounds always "feel" like 200 pounds and why/why not?

GJN5002
11-04-09, 4:26 pm
You're talking about technical, tangible things adidas. I was talking about intangibles, such as the perception of weight. Of course, 200 pounds is always 200 pounds. But does 200 pounds always "feel" like 200 pounds and why/why not?

no way. It all depends on the day, my energy, motivation, focus, the underwear I have on, the gravitational pull of the moon on the ocean, who knows but the weight def feels different day to day.

7
11-04-09, 4:29 pm
no way. It all depends on the day, my energy, motivation, focus, the underwear I have on, the gravitational pull of the moon on the ocean, who knows but the weight def feels different day to day.

Precisely my friend, precisely. Though 200 pounds may always objectively be 200 pounds, it will not always feel like 200 pounds for the reasons you cite and more. In the end, what matters more to you, what something is in the abstract, or how something feels in the real?

fenix237
11-04-09, 4:48 pm
LMFAO!!! i can't believe this thread is being resurrected after 2&1/2 years!

7
11-04-09, 4:57 pm
LMFAO!!! i can't believe this thread is being resurrected after 2&1/2 years!

I started it. I'm finishing it. Egads man.

N. Motta
11-04-09, 4:57 pm
Despite the, "Holy bumped thread Batman!" exclamation, I read this and really related with 7s' posts.

In my opinion, this game is fought and won, all between the ears. The battles that are fought in our mind, make and break us.

Pretty fuckin flabbergasted to read some of the close minded posts. The OP keyed in on a battle that we wage every damn time we walk into the gym.

I for one, appreciate and welcome new intellect. Thought provoking discussions are one of the things that separate us from lower life forms.

7
11-04-09, 5:02 pm
Despite the, "Holy bumped thread Batman!" exclamation, I read this and really related with 7s' posts.

In my opinion, this game is fought and won, all between the ears. The battles that are fought in our mind, make and break us.

Pretty fuckin flabbergasted to read some of the close minded posts. The OP keyed in on a battle that we wage every damn time we walk into the gym.

I for one, appreciate and welcome new intellect. Thought provoking discussions are one of the things that separate us from lower life forms.

iwontquit, you succintly summarize my main thesis. This "game" that we are all involved in, is not just a game of numbers--what's printed on plates and dumbbells. We measure them, keep record of them, become enslaved to them at times. But what truly matters is opening our minds to the idea that what we think can shape reality. Much of what we do is precisely that--mental. If we enter the gym with the right frame of mind, then 200 pounds could feel like 150. New intellect? I'm not new. I've just returned. Intellect? Well, you said it, not me.

Beowulf
11-04-09, 5:18 pm
This reminds me of those stories we've all heard where people lift up cars to save others trapped underneath. Any other time, they'd never be able to lift it up. But in that moment of desperation and emergency, in their mind, they think anything is possible, anything must be possible, to save someone. So they don't think, they do.

Is this what you're saying 7? That how we frame something, how we think about something, shapes our perception of that something in real, tangible ways?

7
11-05-09, 2:19 pm
This reminds me of those stories we've all heard where people lift up cars to save others trapped underneath. Any other time, they'd never be able to lift it up. But in that moment of desperation and emergency, in their mind, they think anything is possible, anything must be possible, to save someone. So they don't think, they do.

Is this what you're saying 7? That how we frame something, how we think about something, shapes our perception of that something in real, tangible ways?

That's a useful way of thinking about it Beowulf. Let's say that car weighs 2,000 pounds. Sure, it's objectively 2,000 pounds, but in the heat of the moment, you're lifting it and it doesn't feel like 2,000 pounds. So 2,000 pounds is 2,000 pounds, but at the same time, it's not. I wonder if all those car lifting stories are apocryphal or not.

rev8ball
11-05-09, 3:12 pm
That's a useful way of thinking about it Beowulf. Let's say that car weighs 2,000 pounds. Sure, it's objectively 2,000 pounds, but in the heat of the moment, you're lifting it and it doesn't feel like 2,000 pounds. So 2,000 pounds is 2,000 pounds, but at the same time, it's not. I wonder if all those car lifting stories are apocryphal or not.


Stories like those are quite possible, and very real. The brain always keeps the body in a restricted state, that it, it keeps it limited in order to conserve what may be necessary for survival. The body has become very smart in prioritizing needed functions, and, therefore, looks at exercise pretty far down on the totem pole of its ultimate goal of staying alive.

For example, when a marathon runner "hits the wall," his usable glucose has been depleted; however, he is still alive because an ample amount has been conserved for the brain and other vital body functions.

Another example is that over 60% of energy used in the body at rest is for the tiny little microscopic sodium/potassium ATPase pump, which is vital to nerve function.

Finally, even under maximum (and I mean MAXIMUM) volunteer recruitment, only 70% of motor units are used in muscle function.

The point is that the body conserves these operations, plus many others, in case it may need them in a life and death situation. At that point, the body activates these functions, doing what it needs to do in an attempt to save its own life. In many of these fantastic stories, many of the individuals suffer severe injuries, such as torn muscles, because of this extreme utilization.

Also, this is one of the reasons that makes elite athletes "elite." Many of them are able to tap into many of these survival features just that much more than us mere mortals, and excel beyond what is considered normal.

ghost
11-05-09, 3:14 pm
200 lbs, is always 200 lbs.

7
11-05-09, 3:17 pm
200 lbs, is always 200 lbs.

No one is disputing this, empirically speaking. That's not the point of this thread.

7
11-05-09, 3:19 pm
Stories like those are quite possible, and very real. The brain always keeps the body in a restricted state, that it, it keeps it limited in order to conserve what may be necessary for survival. The body has become very smart in prioritizing needed functions, and, therefore, looks at exercise pretty far down on the totem pole of its ultimate goal of staying alive.

For example, when a marathon runner "hits the wall," his usable glucose has been depleted; however, he is still alive because an ample amount has been conserved for the brain and other vital body functions.

Another example is that over 60% of energy used in the body at rest is for the tiny little microscopic sodium/potassium ATPase pump, which is vital to nerve function.

Finally, even under maximum (and I mean MAXIMUM) volunteer recruitment, only 70% of motor units are used in muscle function.

The point is that the body conserves these operations, plus many others, in case it may need them in a life and death situation. At that point, the body activates these functions, doing what it needs to do in an attempt to save its own life. In many of these fantastic stories, many of the individuals suffer severe injuries, such as torn muscles, because of this extreme utilization.

Also, this is one of the reasons that makes elite athletes "elite." Many of them are able to tap into many of these survival features just that much more than us mere mortals, and excel beyond what is considered normal.

Interesting reasoning. It reminds me of that old myth about how we, as humans, only use 10% of our brains. Of course, we don't. But even if we only use 90% of our brainpower, imagine what that extra 10% would allow. Coming back to the iron, imagine what 10% of that capacity would allow with respect to lifting in terms of the mind-muscle connection.

ghost
11-05-09, 3:21 pm
No one is disputing this, empirically speaking. That's not the point of this thread.

yeah i know.

rev8ball
11-05-09, 3:22 pm
Interesting reasoning. It reminds me of that old myth about how we, as humans, only use 10% of our brains. Of course, we don't. But even if we only use 90% of our brainpower, imagine what that extra 10% would allow. Coming back to the iron, imagine what 10% of that capacity would allow with respect to lifting in terms of the mind-muscle connection.

Bingo.

Scary, isn't it?........lol

7
11-05-09, 3:23 pm
Bingo.

Scary, isn't it?........lol

I just wish I could use that last 10% of my brain, you know, the part that gives you ESP and telekinesis. Then, I could just bench press using my brain. That's using your noggin.

7
11-05-09, 3:26 pm
yeah i know.

I see. You're either simply stating the obvious, or egging me on. May I assume the latter, good sir?

rev8ball
11-05-09, 8:15 pm
I just wish I could use that last 10% of my brain, you know, the part that gives you ESP and telekinesis. Then, I could just bench press using my brain. That's using your noggin.

LOL, the way I see some morons bench in the gym, they might as well use their foreheads.

On another note, think of the massive difference it would make if you could recruit just 5% more motor units past your maximum. Now, that would be amazing....

Freak
11-06-09, 10:33 am
Take a word, written or spoken. Let's say that word is F-R-E-A-K. No matter how you fucking slice and dice it, it's always the same. It starts with F and ends with K and in between you got R, E, A. We can all agree on this.

Now take this word and think on it. You're in the gym, busting your nutsack. A couple of youngsters are in the corner, watching you lift with awe and reverence. They speak the word, "Freak". Now you're on the street. Maybe you're waiting in line at the deli. You overhear some fatass talking to some other fat fuck about how you are a "Freak".

Last time I checked, the word is spelled exactly the same and spoken in exactly the same way. Freak is freak. You can't ever know how they intended to use the word. It might be the same, it might be radically different. There's the sacred and there is the profane. Though you can't know what was intended, you know the word and you can know how that word made you feel. And how it makes you feel can be fucking different from one moment to the next.

Yeah, I hear it. A word is a word, but its weight can be different as different as night is from day. This is the lesson. The iron is like the word. The word is like the iron.

7
11-06-09, 11:34 am
LOL, the way I see some morons bench in the gym, they might as well use their foreheads.

On another note, think of the massive difference it would make if you could recruit just 5% more motor units past your maximum. Now, that would be amazing....

I'd take that 5% if it were offered.

7
11-06-09, 11:35 am
Take a word, written or spoken. Let's say that word is F-R-E-A-K. No matter how you fucking slice and dice it, it's always the same. It starts with F and ends with K and in between you got R, E, A. We can all agree on this.

Now take this word and think on it. You're in the gym, busting your nutsack. A couple of youngsters are in the corner, watching you lift with awe and reverence. They speak the word, "Freak". Now you're on the street. Maybe you're waiting in line at the deli. You overhear some fatass talking to some other fat fuck about how you are a "Freak".

Last time I checked, the word is spelled exactly the same and spoken in exactly the same way. Freak is freak. You can't ever know how they intended to use the word. It might be the same, it might be radically different. There's the sacred and there is the profane. Though you can't know what was intended, you know the word and you can know how that word made you feel. And how it makes you feel can be fucking different from one moment to the next.

Yeah, I hear it. A word is a word, but its weight can be different as different as night is from day. This is the lesson. The iron is like the word. The word is like the iron.

Yes.

Beowulf
11-06-09, 12:22 pm
Stories like those are quite possible, and very real. The brain always keeps the body in a restricted state, that it, it keeps it limited in order to conserve what may be necessary for survival. The body has become very smart in prioritizing needed functions, and, therefore, looks at exercise pretty far down on the totem pole of its ultimate goal of staying alive.

For example, when a marathon runner "hits the wall," his usable glucose has been depleted; however, he is still alive because an ample amount has been conserved for the brain and other vital body functions.

Another example is that over 60% of energy used in the body at rest is for the tiny little microscopic sodium/potassium ATPase pump, which is vital to nerve function.

Finally, even under maximum (and I mean MAXIMUM) volunteer recruitment, only 70% of motor units are used in muscle function.

The point is that the body conserves these operations, plus many others, in case it may need them in a life and death situation. At that point, the body activates these functions, doing what it needs to do in an attempt to save its own life. In many of these fantastic stories, many of the individuals suffer severe injuries, such as torn muscles, because of this extreme utilization.

Also, this is one of the reasons that makes elite athletes "elite." Many of them are able to tap into many of these survival features just that much more than us mere mortals, and excel beyond what is considered normal.

Interesting stuff there, for sure.