Paks maybe not enough??

[most_unwanted]

Well here's the thing I really like all the animal products, but some of them like m-stak and pump, they just don't have enough of the ingredients in them. The m-stak only has 100 mg of each of the isoflavones and ecdysterone, and you really need ,much more than that. And the Pump only has a few grams of arginine, which is the most important ingredient, when you need like 4-5 grams per pop. Just wondering if anyone felt the same way? If there is an explanation for why they do it that way someone just let me know please.

[Hardcore4Life]

I personally think animal products are some of the best out there. the pak. best multi by far for someone training, and the pump, ive tried all the other NO preworkout mixes and so forth, by far the best is the pump. IMO nothing wrong with the stuff, swear by it.

[naturalguy]

I've never use m-stak so can't comment however Pump is certainly not underdosed. You can't just look at Arginine, you have to look at the complimentary ingredients that make it effective such as:

Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglurate (Ornithine-AKG)
Citrulline Malate
L-Carnosine
L-Norvaline

&

Taurine
Ginger Root Extract
(gingerols, shaogols)
Cinnulin PF
4-Hydroxyisoleucine (20%)
Bioperine
(piper nigrum extract standardized for a minimum of 95% piperine alkaloids)

These ingredients make the product much more effective and it works big time if you try it.

[most_unwanted]

I have tried it and it was decent, I only took it on workout days so maybe that's the reason, I deff get another can and then we'll see. But what about m-stak anyone got any perspective on that?

[NumeroUno]

There could possibly be a difference in the quality of arginine in it. But also, a lot of it has to do with the quality of delivery to your system. It's the difference between eating McDonalds, and eating clean. Some shit will just hit your system better.

-Daniel

[Wasteland]

For me, the bottom line is--do the products work? M-Stak's been around for what, 8 years or more I think? Still a solid seller, and one that's stood the test of time.

Anyway, here are some reviews for M-Stak:
http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=73&section=packs

For Pump, this is a pretty useful thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=902775

[most_unwanted]

I do think the m-stak is a good product, but I just think it could be alot better because the main ingredients have been proven to be safe a more effective at much higher doses, like the ecdysterone in it, you can and should take like up to 600-700 mg in divided doses per day.

[Big Jawn]

Think of it this way. If supplements like Animal Pump relied completly on L Arginine for results then why wouldn't it just be a bottle of Arginine caps with an Animal label on it?

[JUGGERNAUT]

I do think the m-stak is a good product, but I just think it could be alot better because the main ingredients have been proven to be safe a more effective at much higher doses, like the ecdysterone in it, you can and should take like up to 600-700 mg in divided doses per day.

Dude we hear ya but you are talking about adding so much raw material mass and cost to the product that instead of a small coffee can lookin thing it would have to go in a gym locker stored in sandwich sized zip lock bags with 2.9% financing if you are lucky....

[Hard Cell]

Dude we hear ya but you are talking about adding so much raw material mass and cost to the product that instead of a small coffee can lookin thing it would have to go in a gym locker stored in sandwich sized zip lock bags with 2.9% financing if you are lucky....

hahahahhaa
dude
so much true

[focused]

I have tried it and it was decent, I only took it on workout days so maybe that's the reason, I deff get another can and then we'll see. But what about m-stak anyone got any perspective on that?

make a search bro, theres lots of feedback on all the products

[Stiff]

I believe the reason you need less arganine is the l-norvaline. It acts as an arginase inhibitor, preventing the arganine from transforming into something useless.