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View Full Version : Need of a new program: Advice?



munster
06-10-07, 5:11 pm
I am currently using a two day split{chest, back, legs one day shoulders, arms, lower back the next}six days out of the week. I am begining to find this routine very boring. I found this workout in a book Arnold wrote way back when. I have been doing this for 6 months now and think it is time for a change if anyone has any suggestions or ideas please let me know.

poppa flex
06-10-07, 6:41 pm
what are you trying to accomplish man?

HeHateMe
06-10-07, 6:43 pm
Try the AOM

http://animalpak.com/sub/aom.pdf


They have routines in there, and its a great read

sully
06-10-07, 8:28 pm
check out the split routines in the training section.

ChrisG
06-11-07, 1:18 am
Or you could switch it up so that you hit everything the same amount each week but change it to an Upper/Lower split.. there's all kinds of things you can do bro.. just be creative with it to spice things up.

I got a question for ya though.. how have you liked using a split like that? Get pretty good gains from it and recover well? Been thinking about trying the same thing out.

king1
06-11-07, 11:23 pm
I have the book thats from, and all i can say is that you bench one day, military press the other for 6 days in a row. Deadlift one day and the sldl the next for 6 days in a row for the beginner routine. I modified the routine to give more rest time and it worked, but still heavy volume

munster
06-13-07, 3:53 pm
Just trying to put on as much weight as i can right now and try to cut down next summer. I have made some good gains with this program but am begining to find it boring but would definetly suggest it. I will try some of the things you all suggested. Thanks brothers

V Man
06-13-07, 4:05 pm
How about going for something completely different and simple?

day1 - Arms (8 sets Bis 8 sets Tris)
day 2 - Legs (aim for 24 sets, include squats, leg presses and lunges)
day 3 Chest (12 - 16 sets)
day 4 Off
day 5 Shoulders (Include military press and side laterals. 12 sets for shoulders + 4 sets shrugs for traps)
day 6 Back (20 sets, include deads and db rows)
day 7 Off

With this you're hitting each body part once weekly and you'll find you can generate much more intensity and lift more weight than you could doing your old workout. Also this will be a shock to your muscles which will stimulate new growth.

tao
01-03-08, 5:50 pm
whats up guys? a new year and time to add some size. do not get me wrong, i am not a mass freak like most of you guys. bodybuilding is not my thhing, i do not have the genetics,and i realized this years ago, so it has saved me alot of heartache. i train in kung fu/muay thai. this is my nitche.i also use universal products exclusively,i.m.o. they are the best all around. i have been out of the weights for about 9 weeks now. i am down to 160lbs. probably what alot of you weighed in high school. i am going to add 15lbs. using universal products over the next few months. i will post the supplements i am using, the training routine i am following and pics. i hope to get myself in the best shape by this summer, and maybe even get in the ring one last time, as i am now 36. i am posting this video of myself now as to where i am starting from. it was filmed back in the summer.i am the guy with hair. if anyone has any suggestions on some quick mass gaining, i would like to hear any feed back from anyone. i am not a bodybuilding animal, but i hope to be kung fu/muay thai animal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYuOr_zfYw

Roland
01-03-08, 6:13 pm
First of all, you said you are not into bodybuilding. This IS a hardcore bodybuilding community, not a kung fu Animal site/community...So what if your genetics are not the best? Who gives a shit, work with what you got...if you work hard enough, then you can make things happen. This is not rocket science.


Secondly, supplements are not going to get you anywhere if your diet is not on point.

Third, I suggest that you get your diet in check, eat eat eat .....then eat some more, then MAYBE you can add a couple supps like Pak.

EAT, eat clean and bodybuilder friendly foods, and you should be growing...supplements are not magic.

hjayss
01-04-08, 3:44 am
good to see you are getting yourself together.. You say you are not a bodybuilder well everybody here is and so are you. It is not about being on that stage in those bright lights only a select few can be worthy enough to get hat far. For us it is about improvement at some point maybe but I want to do the same thing you ae doing so yes my friend smile you are officially a bodybuilder build you a nice fortress ,but like our brother has said you can not just look to those supp you know you got work to do. I look forward to your progress I have a friend who is into what you are doing it takes dedication and will power like nothing else to do what you do....

Tiny
01-04-08, 9:24 am
Wow - cool fuckin' video. I started out as a fairly accomplished marial artist before getting so far in the physique building department. My art is/was Japanese Goju-Ryu which is a hybrid of Japanese karate and Chinese Kung-fu. for awhile I tried to do both - I was teaching my art and bodybuilding but soon I realized I could only gain so much with all of the extra curricular cardio involved in my martial arts training. I have also seriously considered a return to the ring - did a bit of fighting last year and it felt really good. Anyway, lots of information available here to help you gain a bit more size/muscle - best of luck to you.

tao
01-04-08, 4:28 pm
thanx to you 2 guys for the kind words. i was worried for a min. i was not going to be accepted here. you are right, i am a bodybuilder, just not competative. i just misspoke earlier, and i meant no offense.the training, and eating of course come first, then the supps. i was just posting here because we all have something in common, the want to build better physiques and the use of universal supps. the site is a wealth of info, and i plan to take advantage of it.

braves561
01-26-09, 7:00 pm
I'm looking for a new program. I have been bulking since up since 2006 when I was 147 lbs. I am now at about 213 lbs. I am currently doing DC Training. but want to look into a change. I am hoping to cut off a little bit of BF% and get overall bigger and leaner. I know diet makes a huge difference, so I am getting that down pat as well. So pretty much just to get bigger and leaner.

I'd prefer a program with higher reps and less weight. I have Aortic Stenosis in my left heart valve. I had a balloon angioplasty done when I was two years old. My doctors have told me not to lift heavy and to concentrate on higher reps with less weight. I guess it could cause my heart to enlarge and my leak to become more of a concern.

FROM A WEBSITE: However, stenosis does greatly increase the danger of lifting heavy weights. Your heart can choke on the backpressure, and you can die on the spot

Thanks to anyone that will help me find a new program!

Here is an image of what I look like now:
http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2009/01/24/392712/profilepic/3363132orig.jpg

ANewBreed
01-26-09, 7:16 pm
Hm, well I dont know much about that condition, but from what youve said about it, DC is not for you! I think its very counterproductive to lift heavy and, well, die. If you want lighter weight and more reps, you can try German volume training. Its extremely difficult. I dont know the specifics off the top of my head, but you basically pick an exercise and do 10 sets of 10 reps. The catch is the tempo. Your negative is supposed to be 4 seconds and an explosive positive. It may not seem like much, but itll force you to seriously cut back on the amount of weight you use. Do some research and give it a shot

rmeguy
06-07-09, 2:48 am
Hey brothers/sisters, i just started a new workout and it is all mostly one set. is it ok if i bump it up to 3 or 4 sets or would i be overtraining it a little?

http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=47&section=training%0A

there is the workout i just started. Thanks for the feedback.

-Ben

Shamus11B
06-07-09, 3:47 am
Well what are your goals man? This workout is designed to have the 1 set for certain exercises and multiple sets for others. If one set isnt getting you the burn/pump youa re looking for either bump weight up or check your form. Otherwise you can try a different W/O, but I think this workout the way it is is pretty solid.

rmeguy
06-07-09, 4:02 am
Well i am Mid cut right now and i was looking for a change from my old WO. I have done this one in the past and got good results. The only question i really had was for the arms. Im still trying to bring my arms out more so thats why i was asking if i should bump up the sets or keep em at 1. Thanks for the info tho.

braves561
09-06-09, 7:33 pm
I've been lifting 3-4 years.

Ive done..

-DC Training
-Layne Norton 5 day program
-Regular 5 day split
-Regular 4 day split
-Starr 5x5
-Hola Bola's routine.

Now I feel like I am completely overtrained. I've been lifting 4-6 days a week for the past 3 years or so.

Can anyone suggest a 4 day program that'll yield some good lean mass? Please and thank you.

Q
09-06-09, 8:04 pm
These guys have been seeing good results so far...

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=26508

You can always hit up Rage if you have questions about the routine and such in his advice thread under the "Ask the Animals Section"

quejo
11-05-09, 12:17 pm
What's up?I am at a stand still with my workout..I am doing a body part a day but it is getting boring.I am looking to increase size and strength yet I want to lose some body fat.I am 6'5 280lbs.I just really want a more challenging workout that include olympic lifts.Thanks in advance.

Animal Rep
11-05-09, 12:43 pm
How old are you, how long have you been lifting?

quejo
11-05-09, 12:54 pm
I am 33 and I have been lifting since 2002.

desolation
11-05-09, 8:18 pm
hey bro

olympic lifts are great for jacking up your metabolism and for building some size/strength
-have you had previous experiece?
-are you comfortable with squat, deadlifts?

i know ppl who have been gym goers for years and dont know how to squat, deadlift and i wont even mention olympic lifts so dont take these q's the wrong way it just not every1 does em and they all have great potential in mass,strength and fat loss.

quejo
11-06-09, 10:04 am
Desolation..I hated squatting about 2 yrs ago but its my favorite exercise..I have had some knee problems and I can only go up to 405...Deadlifts I can get 415 5 times.My goal is to get stronger and bulk up but not get stiff as hell.I just want a challenging workout that includes olympic lifts,squats,deads.I can power clean 205lbs,clean press 165.Thanks in advance.

fenix237
11-06-09, 12:00 pm
What's up?I am at a stand still with my workout..I am doing a body part a day but it is getting boring.I am looking to increase size and strength yet I want to lose some body fat.I am 6'5 280lbs.I just really want a more challenging workout that include olympic lifts.Thanks in advance.


your a pretty big dude bro! do you know what your BF% is? if you've been working out for 7 years solid, it's going to be tough to lean out while packing on muscle and getting stronger. it's more productive to go one way or another.

if you been doing the "one body part a day" and have stagnated, consider a full body 3X a week- definately a change of pace- i saw great gains on this type of routine- it's a hell of a workout because your focusing on heavy compound movements- it gives great conditioning

if you want a real ass-kicker that will drop weight and get you in great shape, consider CrossFit. it will make you stronger in some ways, but not in a PL/OL way.

lastly, consider Bil Starr's 5X5- it incorporates powercleans and would also be a good change up to your current routine

good luck- whatever you do- just hit it hard and make sure your diet is clean!

mritter3
11-06-09, 12:34 pm
go to intensemuscle.com, look around at DC training...it incorporates heavy compound movements and facilitates some crazy growth, beware though it is a rough and challenging way to workout.

desolation
11-06-09, 6:19 pm
Desolation..I hated squatting about 2 yrs ago but its my favorite exercise..I have had some knee problems and I can only go up to 405...Deadlifts I can get 415 5 times.My goal is to get stronger and bulk up but not get stiff as hell.I just want a challenging workout that includes olympic lifts,squats,deads.I can power clean 205lbs,clean press 165.Thanks in advance.

if your 6'5 280lbs you should be a pretty big fella. i have had previous problems with squat also (had tears in my right ACL & MCl and my left MCL) but if you can do them then great (its my second fav behind deadlift)

MichelinMan is right doing a trying to losef bdy fat, gain muscle and strength is not very easy - in fact it is extremely hard and you kind of get a half assed result in everything. i think you should focus either on mass + strength or fat loss + strength.

whole body 3x a week can get you out of a slump and is especially good for strength gains.

i think even something a simples a is a good start

-Olympic lift
-Squat
-Deadlift
-Bench press
-BB row (if you want to add it in)

i did a program like this about 2 1/2 years ago, i got some dececnt strength gains - that was my main focus so i ddnt realy pay attention to size or bdy fat.

Monday was 55-65% 1RM 10-12 reps, 3 sets (upto 2 1/2 min rest)
Wednesday 75-80% 1Rm 6-8 reps, 3 sets (3 - 3 1/2 min rest)
Friday 90-95% 1RM 1-3 reps, 3 sets (4min + rest)
this goes for all exercises

it is fairly straight forward do it for 6-8 weeks then do a 1RM test to see what is changed
(this program may not be ultimate for mass but great for fat loss because the heavy compound lifts will jack up your metabolism for upto 48 hours - but remember the battle for size or fat loss are predominantly won in the kitchen)

if that is too simple try this web site
http://www.criticalbench.com/gaining-muscle-power.htm

it is a fairly short read but has some good tips on how to change around your training for strength and bulk

anyways good luck with it

MikeMcM
11-06-09, 6:22 pm
I tend to get bored with the same old routine over and over as well, i read an article not to long ago, and it suggested radically changing things up every 3 months.

Like change the excercise's for the muscles you are working, and also mix the days up.

like if your doing (Monday: Chest) (Tuesday: Back) (Wednesday: Legs) (Thursday:Biceps) (Friday:Triceps) (Saturday:Abbs)

Switch it up: (Monday:Triceps) (Tuesday:Abbs) (Wednseday:Chest) (Thursday:Back) (Friday:Legs) (Saturday:Biceps)

And of course like i said change up the exercises every three months too, according to the article anyway, i tried it and it helped quite a bit with the bordem issue!

quejo
11-07-09, 1:36 am
This is my usual workouts:Mon:Legs(squats,hack squats,leg press,stiff legged deadlifts and lunges)
Tues:Chest and Tri's(bench,flys,incline,dumbell bench)
Wed:Back and Bi's(Deads,wide grip pull ups,dumbell rows)
Thurs:Shoulders(dumbell press,military press,lat raises,front raises)
Fri:If i'm bored light chest(Just Reps).Or whatever I feel as though I didn't go hard on That week.

I want to include Olympic Lifts and I see now that I have to concentrate on size and strenghth.In all honesty I hate math so percentages don't mean shit to me.Lol.Help me out fellas.

t_mh
01-16-10, 8:23 pm
Alright I posted this on Elitefts and was basically just told to reset my weights, but I'm getting tired of 5/3/1 and am looking for something new:

"I'm a 19 year old, 195-200 lb lifter who has been training for about five years but only seriously for the past year or so.

I am on my fifth cycle of 5/3/1 and have had great success with it. I set a lot of PRs and it made me realize that having an actual program is a huge advantage. But now I am definitely plateauing. While I used to set PRs every week, now I occasionally have days where I do worse than the month or week before. So not only do I think I'm progressing more slowly, as would be expected, but I appear to be regressing.

Should I just suck it up and keep moving although I feel like I'm getting worse or should I move on to something new? If I should move on, what would you recommend for an intermediate lifter whose main goal is to get stronger and eventually compete?"

Thanks for the input, guys.

JasonG
01-16-10, 9:16 pm
If you get stuck on an exercise then it's time to replace it and come back to it later. I would try different rep ranges too. Not familiar with 5-3-1 really but I'm assuming that is your reps.

J Wong
01-16-10, 11:15 pm
The general consensus will probably be to stick with it, especially since you said this:

"I am on my fifth cycle of 5/3/1 and have had great success with it. I set a lot of PRs and it made me realize that having an actual program is a huge advantage."

mcbeast
01-16-10, 11:19 pm
I went thru 3 succesful cycles of 5/3/1 and was thinking about going into heavier stuffl like 3x3's etc but instead Im working off my real max, not 90% and Im also doing some singles or doubles afterwards if im feeling up to it.

BionicMasterPiece
01-17-10, 1:28 am
The general consensus will probably be to stick with it, especially since you said this:

"I am on my fifth cycle of 5/3/1 and have had great success with it. I set a lot of PRs and it made me realize that having an actual program is a huge advantage."

size too?

T o m m Y
01-17-10, 1:44 am
size too?

as long as your eating enough..

Beach91
01-17-10, 11:24 am
Hey Tyler, i think if you are asking the question you have kinda already answered it, in that u may be burned out a bit on 5/3/1, maybe always having to make constant progress is wearing u down

You could try another type of program for 3-4 weeks, sort of a deload away from 5-3-1 , then head back into 5-3-1, as you said in your post you are making gains from 5/3/1, so I would personally make that my staple prog. that i always head back to but maybe a little time away from it will help you refocus and get back into it after say a month to six weeks of doing something different

J Wong
01-17-10, 12:03 pm
size too?

Yep.


Hey Tyler, i think if you are asking the question you have kinda already answered it, in that u may be burned out a bit on 5/3/1, maybe always having to make constant progress is wearing u down

You could try another type of program for 3-4 weeks, sort of a deload away from 5-3-1 , then head back into 5-3-1, as you said in your post you are making gains from 5/3/1, so I would personally make that my staple prog. that i always head back to but maybe a little time away from it will help you refocus and get back into it after say a month to six weeks of doing something different

I kind of disagree with this. I don't see him "burning out" on 5/3/1, especially after five cycles. On 5/3/1 you are able to vary the intensitys and make it fit to how you are feeling, and there is a scheduled deload every 4th week.

J A Y
01-17-10, 1:13 pm
i think there are a few things you could consider T and a few things you should take into account...

1. change the exercises... stick with 5/3/1 but change your main movements to something different, get good at another lift for a while, then come back to the big 3/(4 in 5/3/1 terms)and see how well the other exercises carried over

2. change your mindset, i can see how 5/3/1 can get very tedious, yes you are making gains but variety can be good, a new mental stimulus, or something new to focus yourself on like a new lift, new accesory stuff etc...

3.new programme...

ive been following your log pretty much since the beggining and i think you are convincing yourself a little 5/3/1 is drying up... think it was IRBS who said this but '9/10 times if you think a programme is going to work, it usually will'

t_mh
01-17-10, 4:26 pm
Thanks everyone. My thinking was essentially was beach was saying, but I think I'm gonna stick with it for a while since most people seem to be telling me to.


The general consensus will probably be to stick with it, especially since you said this:

"I am on my fifth cycle of 5/3/1 and have had great success with it. I set a lot of PRs and it made me realize that having an actual program is a huge advantage."


i think there are a few things you could consider T and a few things you should take into account...

1. change the exercises... stick with 5/3/1 but change your main movements to something different, get good at another lift for a while, then come back to the big 3/(4 in 5/3/1 terms)and see how well the other exercises carried over

2. change your mindset, i can see how 5/3/1 can get very tedious, yes you are making gains but variety can be good, a new mental stimulus, or something new to focus yourself on like a new lift, new accesory stuff etc...

3.new programme...

ive been following your log pretty much since the beggining and i think you are convincing yourself a little 5/3/1 is drying up... think it was IRBS who said this but '9/10 times if you think a programme is going to work, it usually will'

I think my next cycle will definitely take your first point into account to try to change things up and refocus me.

shizz702
01-18-10, 3:17 pm
No need to reinvent the wheel.

Why not just stick with the 531, reset the weights, and choose different assistance lifts as a means to change things? Also, you could do front squats instead of squats, rack pulls instead of deadlifts, close grips instead of bench, etc.

Young&Hungry
01-19-10, 12:04 am
Been doing 5/3/1 for over 18 months on my gym lifts and I wouldn't change a thing. The results speak for themselves - although I don't focus on my gym lifts much because of my strongman event training, here are some of my results.

Deadlift - 315x10, 335x8 (with belt) to 415x9, 515x1 (beltless)
Squat - 365x5, 445x1 (high) to 415x7, 475x1 (deep)
Strict Press - haven't trained these regularly in ages, but went from struggling with 105 and 115x5 to 165x7
Cleans - 185x5, 225x1 to 255x5, 300x1 with relative ease
Front Squats - 275x5, 315x3 or 5 (belt) to 315x10, 370x1 (beltless)

Bodyweight went from 190 to 205, and after cutting to 180 pounds I was stronger than I was at 205 pounds.

So my point is...stick with it! Reset your maxes and stick with it. I'd rather hit small PR's every training session and work with a program that doesn't burn me out, then try to be some maestro and end up maxing out too often and not having a general training plan.

t_mh
01-19-10, 12:20 am
Been doing 5/3/1 for over 18 months on my gym lifts and I wouldn't change a thing. The results speak for themselves - although I don't focus on my gym lifts much because of my strongman event training, here are some of my results.

Deadlift - 315x10, 335x8 (with belt) to 415x9, 515x1 (beltless)
Squat - 365x5, 445x1 (high) to 415x7, 475x1 (deep)
Strict Press - haven't trained these regularly in ages, but went from struggling with 105 and 115x5 to 165x7
Cleans - 185x5, 225x1 to 255x5, 300x1 with relative ease
Front Squats - 275x5, 315x3 or 5 (belt) to 315x10, 370x1 (beltless)

Bodyweight went from 190 to 205, and after cutting to 180 pounds I was stronger than I was at 205 pounds.

So my point is...stick with it! Reset your maxes and stick with it. I'd rather hit small PR's every training session and work with a program that doesn't burn me out, then try to be some maestro and end up maxing out too often and not having a general training plan.

Thanks man. The trouble is I stopped hitting PRs and got frustrated. But I'm gonna stick with it and, like a lot of people suggested, change the assistance work. I'll see how it goes.

ironshaolin
01-19-10, 3:30 pm
Jim Wendler would say take the excersise you're NOT progressing on, and reset your training max. Take what you're current max is right now, and take 90% of that as you're new training max. It feels like you're taking a step back, but its a ratchet effect. Sometimes, you need to take 2 steps back in order to take 3 steps forward. So if you're plateau now, go back down a bit and work up to a new max. I would suggest if you plateau again at the same spot, then switch excersises, but still keep the 5/3/1. It is a great system, and will definately get you crazy strong if you commit to it over the long haul.
Useful substitutions: If your squat is plateuing, substitute front squats.
For deadlifts, try sumo deadlifts or trap bar deadlifts.
For bench press, try doing bottom position bench presses, switch bars to a thick bar, or change your grip up. Sometimes moving your grip further in or out can break you through a tough spot.
For military press, substitute push press or push jerk.

A second thing is to watch your asssistance moves. Are you really assessing what your weaknesses are, and using assistance to try and bring them up? For example, if its your deadlift, what is holding you back. Is it hamstring strength, lower back strength, or hip strength? For hammys, you should use Glute/Ham raises to bring them up. If its lower back, work on goodmornings and rack pulls. If its glutes, try doing barbell hip bridges. Or as another option, maybe you're not progressing because you are doing TOO MUCH accessory and its leaving you burnt out and unable to perform. In that case, try dropping a set or 2 out of your assistance and see if it changes.