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Kiwi129
06-12-07, 9:43 pm
Hey Guys,

I have just started thinking about this a lot lately. You know the test out there to see if you have dominantly fast or slow twitch muscle fibers in each bodypart? You take your 1RM for the bodypart's dominant compound exercise and multiply it by .85. After that you see or guess how many reps you can lift it for. 1-5 means dominantly fast twitch, 6-10 is fairly mixed, and 11-15 means you have dominantly slow twitch. I've done most of these just for shits and giggles and they're mostly correct.

So 85% of my 1RM for bench is 145 lbs. I can rep it for 6-7 reps. That signifies that I have mostly fast twitch muscles in my chest. Does this mean that my chest will respond better, growth wise, to lower rep, power training?

Aside from the chatter above... I guess my overall question is... if you find out that information and decide to try it out, does each bodypart respond, growth wise, accordingly? If you have dominant slow twitch in your delts, will they grow better when worked in high rep ranges? I know fast twitch have the highest growth potential, but if there isn't a lot of it in a given group, should you put power training secondary to higher rep training for that group?

drizzt
06-12-07, 10:27 pm
we cant tell you what it means, cause every body reacts differently, but it will be a change of pace for your body and often that can mean new growth/development. give it a shot and see how it goes...if you dont get the results you want, change it up again or go back to what was working. good luck bro, and as always and im sure you know....get on top of your diet, if youre going to lift bigger, eat bigger.

mark
06-12-07, 10:32 pm
In all honesty, that test is useless in anyone that trains regularly, esp for someone who focuses on CNS effiecency or CNS intensive work.

Yes, you have a predetermined RANGE of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers. However, the exact amount of each 3 types will be based slowly on the style of training you do:
Ie, powerlifters over time, develop higher amounts of fast twitch muscle fibers, then they did at earlier stages of training, do to the high intensities they train with. However, many powerlifters today also do work to improve Rate of Force Development (RFD), aka CNS effiecency/intensive training. Therefore asking them to do a test of 85% for reps is going to yield a low amount of reps do to the fact that muscles just aren't prepared, aka read have hypertrophy for, the endurance of larger loads.
Bodybuilders on the other hand, have the ability to move 85% of their max for more reps do to being better prepared for that, aka hypertrophy. But, one must also look at their lower 1rm in comparison to their repping weights. Why is this? The lack of high intensity lifting doesn't prep the body as well for such tasks.

So as you can see, the body is going to adapt to the stresses its placed under. If you want to hit lots of reps with 85%, than train to hit lots of reps. If you want to only hit a few reps, then load the bar and start lifting heavy.

Train how you want, and the body will follow... genetics only interferes with your goals if you want it too...

ANewBreed
06-12-07, 10:46 pm
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/musclefiberspart2.php

this article can answer any question you have about muscle fiber make up/recruitment/whatever. enjoy

Kiwi129
06-12-07, 11:08 pm
Mark your post was particularly good. Thanks for that bro. ANewBreed: I'll be sure to check that link out right now. Thanks.

ronald1919
03-09-09, 8:55 pm
I was doing some boxing today with a coach ( I am a beginner) and he commented about how my body is not balanced and it is mostly slow twitch. He said there is a difference between power and explosiveness. Now it is obvious you need to be explosive for a boxer but as a bodybuilder I always lift slow, controlled with good form ( even on my heaviest lifts). He went on to state NFL players as an example of muscle mass and explosiveness.

Now I remember watching combine training and how they train to get 225 ( for example) bench press for as many reps as possible and as fast (explosively) as possible with a lot of bouncing. I have also watched a lot of Jay Cutler youtube videos and he does everything VERY FAST / explosively and he gets criticized a lot for his form.

Basically my question is should you opt for speed and explosiveness over control and muscle stimulation? cons vs pros ? and what are some good exercises for fast twitch muscle ?

Fricano
03-10-09, 5:05 pm
I was doing some boxing today with a coach ( I am a beginner) and he commented about how my body is not balanced and it is mostly slow twitch. He said there is a difference between power and explosiveness. Now it is obvious you need to be explosive for a boxer but as a bodybuilder I always lift slow, controlled with good form ( even on my heaviest lifts). He went on to state NFL players as an example of muscle mass and explosiveness.

Now I remember watching combine training and how they train to get 225 ( for example) bench press for as many reps as possible and as fast (explosively) as possible with a lot of bouncing. I have also watched a lot of Jay Cutler youtube videos and he does everything VERY FAST / explosively and he gets criticized a lot for his form.

Basically my question is should you opt for speed and explosiveness over control and muscle stimulation? cons vs pros ? and what are some good exercises for fast twitch muscle ?

I think you don't fully understand what fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers are. Fast twitch are the type B muscle fibers. They are the white muscle fibers and are extremely powerful but fatigue easy. Slow twitch muscle fibers are type A, the red ones. The are not as powerful but do not fatigue as easily.

mark
03-10-09, 7:42 pm
Yes, speed up the rate of the lifts. The exact number/ratios of muscle fiber types is flexible. If you increase the stress placed on the fast twitch muscle fibers, your body will produce more. However, there is a genetic limit to how many fast twitch fibers you have.

Also, your coach was correct in a sense. Just because you have more fast twitch fibers, doesn't mean you'll be more explosive/powerfull. Power, in the sense he is Probably talking about, is more of a reflection of the central nervous system (cns) vice the musculo-skelatal system.

So, not only do you need to lift in a manner that forces the body into fast twitch fiber proliferation, but i would recommend changing your training in such a manner that you stress the nervous system as well.

SolidTongan
03-11-09, 10:50 pm
Any exercise can hit your fast twitch muscle fibers. If done explosively, you hit your fast twitch. If done explosively, it's best done within 6 reps. Don't go real heavy. Power or explosiveness refers to how fast you can move a certain weight. Go too heavy...and you won't be pushin' the weight very fast or explosively. If you go super heavy for low to moderate reps, you hit your fast twitch fibers. Generally goin' for reps of 15 and beyond, hit your slow twitch muscle fibers.

cogz
03-11-09, 11:10 pm
i like working both. a lot of powerlifters use heavy days or max effort and then they do speed days. do some research on the westside barbell training techniques

NickSP
03-11-09, 11:12 pm
I'm no expert, but my two cents...
Lots of sciencey stuff, types 1, 2a, 2b yada yada... the goods are still the same. When more force needs to be produced (for explosive or heavy resistance) the body recruits 2a then 2b (most capable of hypertrophy)...for boxing I'm sure you'll want lots of explosive/dynamic work like you'd expect anyway....moderately heavy/heavy is probably good for BB purposes.

Fricano
03-12-09, 11:35 am
When your coach said you have slow twitch or red muscle fiber he meant that you will have a difficult time building muscle. Slow twitch muscle can increase in size by about 25% where as fast twitch muscle fiber can grow 100% of original size. This all has to do with genetics. People have a mix of red and white muscle fiber. Those with more muscle white fiber can ultimately grow to a bigger sizes. However just because you have predominately red muscle fiber does not mean that you cant gain lots of muscle. If you have more slow twitch muscle fiber then you have to train that way. You have to find what works for your muscle type. People with red muscle fiber recover much quicker than those with white muscle fiber. It would benefit you to have a higher volume workout and more reps 15-20 per set. This is all true assuming that your "boxing" coach knows what he is talking about. Bodybuilding is a real personal thing. You have to find whats right for you. That what seperate the average gym goer and the pro. Pros know there bodies. They know what works. This does not happen over night, it takes years to fully understand how your body works and you the one who lives in it. Be waery of advice people give you. Always happen an open ear but dont blindly follow someones word. Try different methods of training and see what makes your body grow the best. Whether its 5 reps of 100, 2 sets or 10 sets, you decide.

rev8ball
03-12-09, 12:08 pm
The "twitch-ness" of a muscle fiber is related to the speed of its contractability, as well as the fuel it requires for a movement, i.e, the time required to complete the activity. Type I is aerobic, requiring oxygen for fuel (marathon runner). Type IIa is anaeorbic, using glycolysis for fuel (football, bodybuilding). Type IIx is also anaerobic, but uses ATP/CP for fuel (weightlifting, shot-put).

Wreck
03-12-09, 4:30 pm
explosive lifts such as power cleans, snatches, push press, etc. will really help with developing your fast twitch fibers and building overall explosiveness. Incorporate these and you will notice a huge improvement in your athletic abilities. For other lifts such as squats and bench, still lower the weight slow and controlled on the negative but explode up with the weight for each rep.

msktyshha
11-09-09, 9:00 pm
to all the experienced lifters out there...do u have any training regimen that hits both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers? If so please share, also everybody please share your thoughts on the fast and slow twitch muscle fibers. what is the most efficient way to recruit both muscle fibers

stumblin54
11-10-09, 2:02 am
There's no training you can do that only hits one or the other. Train hard and you will hit them all.

Stumblin

staudt
11-10-09, 8:42 am
do speed sets

Crash
11-10-09, 10:23 am
...Ok first off, let's start off with the facts...Fast twitch and Slow twitch is not a black and white issue...More like it is a mixture of the two...Think of it in terms of White meat and Dark Meat...You are not all white meat nor all you all dark meat...More like you are a ratio of white to dark...Fast twitch is like power for reference's sake. It allows you to lift heavy weight but tires quickly...Slow twitch is like endurance...It fires less powerfully but lasts a whole lot longer than slow twitch...To put this in perspective a successful powerlifter will have a vast amount of fast twitch, while a marathon runner will have the exact opposite, which is a greater amount of slow twitch...

...Still got it?...Good...Now be aware that it is ur genetics that determine your pre-dispositioned ratio of fast to slow...When you build muscle most often you build type II a-b fibers...Which is to say that you can make white meat a little darker, and dark meat a little whiter, but you cannot turn dark to light and light to dark...

...Now on the subject of training it would seem to reason that should you be looking to build more dark meat one would stick to more power movements...And with more white meat one would strive to have more endurance sets with moderate-light weight and high reps sets to failure...However, in this fucked up world you need not forget about your body's pre-dispositioned ratio...If you are more white meat than dark, then you will have a tough time turning white to dark, than adding more dark meat. The opposite is true, in trying to turn dark to white...And then there is the almighty principle of hard fucking work trumping it all and telling your genetics to go fuck themselves...

...To sum it all up, I assume that you are not sport specific training and mearly looking to add mass to your frame...My advice to to experiment and see which style of training works for you in adding the most significant amount off mass, and drive that motherfucker till the wheels fall off...

...Strength and Honor...

msktyshha
11-10-09, 10:45 am
...Ok first off, let's start off with the facts...Fast twitch and Slow twitch is not a black and white issue...More like it is a mixture of the two...Think of it in terms of White meat and Dark Meat...You are not all white meat nor all you all dark meat...More like you are a ratio of white to dark...Fast twitch is like power for reference's sake. It allows you to lift heavy weight but tires quickly...Slow twitch is like endurance...It fires less powerfully but lasts a whole lot longer than slow twitch...To put this in perspective a successful powerlifter will have a vast amount of fast twitch, while a marathon runner will have the exact opposite, which is a greater amount of slow twitch...

...Still got it?...Good...Now be aware that it is ur genetics that determine your pre-dispositioned ratio of fast to slow...When you build muscle most often you build type II a-b fibers...Which is to say that you can make white meat a little darker, and dark meat a little whiter, but you cannot turn dark to light and light to dark...

...Now on the subject of training it would seem to reason that should you be looking to build more dark meat one would stick to more power movements...And with more white meat one would strive to have more endurance sets with moderate-light weight and high reps sets to failure...However, in this fucked up world you need not forget about your body's pre-dispositioned ratio...If you are more white meat than dark, then you will have a tough time turning white to dark, than adding more dark meat. The opposite is true, in trying to turn dark to white...And then there is the almighty principle of hard fucking work trumping it all and telling your genetics to go fuck themselves...

...To sum it all up, I assume that you are not sport specific training and mearly looking to add mass to your frame...My advice to to experiment and see which style of training works for you in adding the most significant amount off mass, and drive that motherfucker till the wheels fall off...

...Strength and Honor...

sweet reply man thanx.......just got a question is it ever possible to add muscle mass like a significant amount of muscle mass by doing light weight and high volume,when i mean light or heavy weight i mean weight that feels light or heavy to myself

Fury317
11-10-09, 10:49 am
...Ok first off, let's start off with the facts...Fast twitch and Slow twitch is not a black and white issue...More like it is a mixture of the two...Think of it in terms of White meat and Dark Meat...You are not all white meat nor all you all dark meat...More like you are a ratio of white to dark...Fast twitch is like power for reference's sake. It allows you to lift heavy weight but tires quickly...Slow twitch is like endurance...It fires less powerfully but lasts a whole lot longer than slow twitch...To put this in perspective a successful powerlifter will have a vast amount of fast twitch, while a marathon runner will have the exact opposite, which is a greater amount of slow twitch...

...Still got it?...Good...Now be aware that it is ur genetics that determine your pre-dispositioned ratio of fast to slow...When you build muscle most often you build type II a-b fibers...Which is to say that you can make white meat a little darker, and dark meat a little whiter, but you cannot turn dark to light and light to dark...

...Now on the subject of training it would seem to reason that should you be looking to build more dark meat one would stick to more power movements...And with more white meat one would strive to have more endurance sets with moderate-light weight and high reps sets to failure...However, in this fucked up world you need not forget about your body's pre-dispositioned ratio...If you are more white meat than dark, then you will have a tough time turning white to dark, than adding more dark meat. The opposite is true, in trying to turn dark to white...And then there is the almighty principle of hard fucking work trumping it all and telling your genetics to go fuck themselves...

...To sum it all up, I assume that you are not sport specific training and mearly looking to add mass to your frame...My advice to to experiment and see which style of training works for you in adding the most significant amount off mass, and drive that motherfucker till the wheels fall off...

...Strength and Honor...

Absolutely perfect response. Nothing can really be added. This thread should be shut down with this post highlighted haha.