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BigFeitz
08-22-08, 2:33 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFeitz
thanks ox ill try that. hey also i have been reading a lot about to bring up lagging bodyparts to train them 3x a week just for aa short time though. do you think that is a good idea, since i need to bring up my arms? and if so how should my split look like?

I don't think 3x a week is a good idea but you can try it. I feel like that is too much. Just give arms their own day, blast em, and let em recuperate. And train back very hard!


so which method do you think is better: supersets or straight sets(bis, than tris)?

MrMuscles22
08-24-08, 7:19 pm
Don't worry about the carbs in the nuts and so long as you are eating GREEN veggies don't sweat those carbs either. Keep me posted. Stick to it.

When you say GREEN veggies, does that mean asparagus, celery, green beans, etc or just leafy green veggies like lettuce??? I am starting my keto diet tomorrow (8/25) and am running it for 20 weeks and would like more variety than just lettuce for my veggies.

If you could check out my journey I would appreciate it..my diet is outlined there if you want to critique it or offer any advice or corrections that need done.

Thanks OX!

In Flames
08-24-08, 8:39 pm
ox, could you post a an example of a regular back workout that you do? thanks bro.

Ox
08-25-08, 4:47 pm
Hey Evan, regarding this answer. Will it be OK to just have the whey in 2 meals and no fats? I'm dieting now, and I eat 5 meals 3 solid and 2 shakes. Here is a rough of my leals.
1.eggs+meat+cheese
2. 34g whey
3.steak-pork-chicken
4. 34g whey
5.steak-pork-chicken

I'm at 211 today, from 225 that I started. I'm guessing that I'm at about 170 lbw(lean body weight) comming back from surgery, so the weight is going down with only 1 cardio session of 30 min to deplete the glycogen before carb day.

I try to go for 200g+protein with 140g fats (on the Anabolic Diet) which to my understanding is close to the Keto during the week. I'm leaning out, losing between 2 and 3 weekly. But I will like to know if I should lean out the solid meals and add some fats to the shakes or if it should be OK the way I'm doing it. I'm eating spinach with meals 3 and 5 and taking fiber sup at 1.

Thanks for all the help you have laid in this thread! I still haven't go thru it entirely but I have learned so much already.

You COULD do the shakes with no fats but why? Rather than concentrating your fats in 3 meals-45g per meal?! (That's a lot at once) why not space your fat intake out through each meal? Also, 140g of fat is on the high side for your bodyweight- Fats and Protein should be a 1:1 calorie ratio. What you're doing may work for now but to get sliced, you're probably going to have to adjust your macros. AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR EFAs.! That's key on this diet.

Ox
08-25-08, 4:48 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFeitz
thanks ox ill try that. hey also i have been reading a lot about to bring up lagging bodyparts to train them 3x a week just for aa short time though. do you think that is a good idea, since i need to bring up my arms? and if so how should my split look like?

I don't think 3x a week is a good idea but you can try it. I feel like that is too much. Just give arms their own day, blast em, and let em recuperate. And train back very hard!


so which method do you think is better: supersets or straight sets(bis, than tris)?

You should employ a mix of everything. Straight sets, drops, giants, supers.

Ox
08-25-08, 4:49 pm
When you say GREEN veggies, does that mean asparagus, celery, green beans, etc or just leafy green veggies like lettuce??? I am starting my keto diet tomorrow (8/25) and am running it for 20 weeks and would like more variety than just lettuce for my veggies.

If you could check out my journey I would appreciate it..my diet is outlined there if you want to critique it or offer any advice or corrections that need done.

Thanks OX!

Green veggies should eb the ones that pack the most nutrients with least carbs. I like green beans, spinach, broccoli rhabe, asparagus, escarole. I say skip the lettuce and celery when you can have somthing more nutritious.

Ox
08-25-08, 4:52 pm
ox, could you post a an example of a regular back workout that you do? thanks bro.

Example:

Barbell Rows- 4 sets- 10,10,14,12
Pulldowns & Pullovers Superset- 4 sets, 8-14 reps on each exercise
Close Grip Assisted Pullups- 4 sets- 8-12 reps
Close Grip Cable Rows- 4 Drop Sets- As many reps as possible per set

In Flames
08-25-08, 5:36 pm
Example:

Barbell Rows- 4 sets- 10,10,14,12
Pulldowns & Pullovers Superset- 4 sets, 8-14 reps on each exercise
Close Grip Assisted Pullups- 4 sets- 8-12 reps
Close Grip Cable Rows- 4 Drop Sets- As many reps as possible per set

thanks alot bro! sick back workout. do you work biceps with your back or do you train back alone?

Maiden69
08-25-08, 7:15 pm
You COULD do the shakes with no fats but why? Rather than concentrating your fats in 3 meals-45g per meal?! (That's a lot at once) why not space your fat intake out through each meal? Also, 140g of fat is on the high side for your bodyweight- Fats and Protein should be a 1:1 calorie ratio. What you're doing may work for now but to get sliced, you're probably going to have to adjust your macros. AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR EFAs.! That's key on this diet.

Thanks a LOT Bro! I will incorporate these from tomorrow on. When you say 1:1 means calorie wise, so if I got 2000 cal, then it should be roughly 250g Prot, 111g Fats. Time to re-calculate this diet.

theSjman
08-26-08, 10:50 am
hey ox, me and my training partner have struggled gettin our rear delts to grow. for our new split we moved fronts and sides to chest day and rears on back day. my question is are we counter productive by not training delts as a whole.

BigFeitz
08-26-08, 5:51 pm
OX, animal and universal products work excellent. 3 1/2 weeks ago i weighed 212lbs. and i just purchased animal pak, animal flex, real gains, storm, shock therapy, BCAA2000, and natural sterol complex. i also had glutamine and protein from my work. i was eating like crazy and training hard just like you told me too. i stopped taking the natural sterol complex though after 2 weeks because my arms were breaking out. but i kep on everything else. today i weighed myself to see if i had made any progress and i weighed in at 222lbs. so i got my body fat tested and it didnt change at all. so i put on 10lbs of muscle in 3 1/2 weeks. and i owe it all to your advice and animal and universal's supplements.

thanks you.

musclealchemist
08-26-08, 6:47 pm
OX, animal and universal products work excellent. 3 1/2 weeks ago i weighed 212lbs. and i just purchased animal pak, animal flex, real gains, storm, shock therapy, BCAA2000, and natural sterol complex. i also had glutamine and protein from my work. i was eating like crazy and training hard just like you told me too. i stopped taking the natural sterol complex though after 2 weeks because my arms were breaking out. but i kep on everything else. today i weighed myself to see if i had made any progress and i weighed in at 222lbs. so i got my body fat tested and it didnt change at all. so i put on 10lbs of muscle in 3 1/2 weeks. and i owe it all to your advice and animal and universal's supplements.

thanks you.

you need to take some credit for that too. Its you who busted your ass and ate like a beast. Congrats bro, it feels good when you put in the work and see the results.

jaredlee5
08-26-08, 8:40 pm
This Thread has been amazing Ox. All of your advice has been great and I have begun my own journey on the site for my current bulk. Its very inspiring to see how we have a few things in common. I was also overweight and eventually lost all the weight the wrong way after my senior year of football, and have been building back up ever since. ALso, I have injured my AC joint. You'll see in my journey that I played rugby and i actually completely tore the AC tendon during a match, thats all i have to babble about for now ha. You've been a great inspiration


I've copy and pasted the link for my journey

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=20303

BigFeitz
08-26-08, 10:50 pm
you need to take some credit for that too. Its you who busted your ass and ate like a beast. Congrats bro, it feels good when you put in the work and see the results.

Yeah it is. i give alot of credit because i was 212 for almost my whole first year of college, so this was big for me.

BigFeitz
08-27-08, 6:57 pm
hey ox can animal stack be taken for natural athletes?

In Flames
08-29-08, 4:52 pm
Hey Ox, what does your typical Arm day look like? I usually always do Superset for my Arms. Do you do the same as well?

Thanks bro.

InHuman
09-01-08, 9:13 pm
OX, animal and universal products work excellent. 3 1/2 weeks ago i weighed 212lbs. and i just purchased animal pak, animal flex, real gains, storm, shock therapy, BCAA2000, and natural sterol complex. i also had glutamine and protein from my work. i was eating like crazy and training hard just like you told me too. i stopped taking the natural sterol complex though after 2 weeks because my arms were breaking out. but i kep on everything else. today i weighed myself to see if i had made any progress and i weighed in at 222lbs. so i got my body fat tested and it didnt change at all. so i put on 10lbs of muscle in 3 1/2 weeks. and i owe it all to your advice and animal and universal's supplements.

thanks you.

10 pounds of muscle in less than a month..unheard of man, if its true your a genetic freak

Ox
09-01-08, 9:30 pm
thanks alot bro! sick back workout. do you work biceps with your back or do you train back alone?

Ilike to train back alone especially since it's such a large muscle group.

Ox
09-01-08, 9:31 pm
Thanks a LOT Bro! I will incorporate these from tomorrow on. When you say 1:1 means calorie wise, so if I got 2000 cal, then it should be roughly 250g Prot, 111g Fats. Time to re-calculate this diet.

You got it bro.

Ox
09-01-08, 9:32 pm
hey ox, me and my training partner have struggled gettin our rear delts to grow. for our new split we moved fronts and sides to chest day and rears on back day. my question is are we counter productive by not training delts as a whole.

I don't think so. I think you're actually doing the right thing by doing this. I ofetn tell people to do just what you described.

Ox
09-01-08, 9:34 pm
OX, animal and universal products work excellent. 3 1/2 weeks ago i weighed 212lbs. and i just purchased animal pak, animal flex, real gains, storm, shock therapy, BCAA2000, and natural sterol complex. i also had glutamine and protein from my work. i was eating like crazy and training hard just like you told me too. i stopped taking the natural sterol complex though after 2 weeks because my arms were breaking out. but i kep on everything else. today i weighed myself to see if i had made any progress and i weighed in at 222lbs. so i got my body fat tested and it didnt change at all. so i put on 10lbs of muscle in 3 1/2 weeks. and i owe it all to your advice and animal and universal's supplements.

thanks you.

SOLID! It just goes to show what a difference it makes when you're feeding your body and providing it with the nutrients it needs to grow. That's what it's all about...building blocks bro. And you're in good hands with Universal as the quality is evident in the results that people such as yourself experience.

Ox
09-01-08, 9:36 pm
This Thread has been amazing Ox. All of your advice has been great and I have begun my own journey on the site for my current bulk. Its very inspiring to see how we have a few things in common. I was also overweight and eventually lost all the weight the wrong way after my senior year of football, and have been building back up ever since. ALso, I have injured my AC joint. You'll see in my journey that I played rugby and i actually completely tore the AC tendon during a match, thats all i have to babble about for now ha. You've been a great inspiration


I've copy and pasted the link for my journey

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=20303

Damn bro, your story sounds like mine. I was overweight and then wanted to build up and I hurt my AC joint too. Had it scoped senior year of high school. I'm glad you enjoy the thread buddy.

Ox
09-01-08, 9:40 pm
hey ox can animal stack be taken for natural athletes?

I'm not 100% sure bro but I don't think it would result in a postive drug test. But I would ask someone else first because I don' know for sure.

Maccabee
09-01-08, 11:24 pm
Hey Ox, How is everything going...I hope all is well.

I am a little confused with figuring out how many grams of healthy fats to take. Other pros here told me to experiment, but if I weigh 220ish how many grams of fat should some one at my BW take?

I know trial and error is important but how would i know if I am overdoing it or not??

badrock
09-03-08, 5:45 am
Whats up evan? i read an article in MD not sure which issue, about for your chest training you often advocated the use of only one Pressing movement. I had been debating this because i've noticed after my first press rather dumbbell or barbell im kinda zapped for energy after that, so i was just wondering if you found it more beneficial to only use one type of press and just rotate which exercise from week to week? thanks

Ox
09-04-08, 9:45 am
Hey Ox, How is everything going...I hope all is well.

I am a little confused with figuring out how many grams of healthy fats to take. Other pros here told me to experiment, but if I weigh 220ish how many grams of fat should some one at my BW take?

I know trial and error is important but how would i know if I am overdoing it or not??


A 1:1 protein:fat CALORIE ratio is a safe bet. You can adjust it from there.

Ox
09-04-08, 9:47 am
Whats up evan? i read an article in MD not sure which issue, about for your chest training you often advocated the use of only one Pressing movement. I had been debating this because i've noticed after my first press rather dumbbell or barbell im kinda zapped for energy after that, so i was just wondering if you found it more beneficial to only use one type of press and just rotate which exercise from week to week? thanks

It depends how I feel. One day I may do 3 pressing movements, the next only one. VARIETY! The last workout I had I did flat bench, then incline dumbells, then incline barbell and then finished with two fly movements. But there have been times when I opre-exhaust woth fly movements and then can really only do one good pressing movement.

Maccabee
09-04-08, 11:55 am
A 1:1 protein:fat CALORIE ratio is a safe bet. You can adjust it from there.

How about Carbs? I dont know much about nutrition but I think a lot of people say its not good to take carbs with fats? Is that true? If so then would I take carbs?

jer
09-06-08, 11:05 am
Hey Ev, I meant to thank you on my way out of the gym yesterday, about the Greek yogurt tip, but you were in the office and I didn't want to bug you.

Hope the shoulder workout went well. See ya at the gym.

jer
09-06-08, 2:27 pm
^^^^
BTW, that stuff is pretty good, mixed with my Ezikiel cereal with a drizzle of honey. I gotta find a whole sale place to pick this up though, it ain't cheap. lol

shortstack
09-07-08, 11:58 pm
Hey Evan, I've been reading through your posts for some diet ideas and found the first one that you posted. 3 whole food meals and 3 shake meals w/ Carbs added in during the off season. My whole life is an off season at this point so I'll be adding in oats to all of the shakes.

Using this diet, just so you have an idea of what I'm eating, I would like to know your opinion of how I should lay this all out. I lift @ 5am to about 6:30am,Tues, Wed, Fri, and Sunday. No cardio at this point. Get to work @ 8, eat lunch around 11 and home by 5:20.

Sups are Pak, Flex, EFA's everyday. Shock therapy Pre, Torrent and Eaa Nitro Post. As soon as I can get some Intra-pro I'll add that during as well.

Right now the biggest problem is should I eat the eggs and pack before or after I hit the gym then take the first shake shortly after I get to work. Or is there anything else that I need to focus on getting in my stomach before lifting. I starting this diet tomorrow so I'll see how it woks out for me. If you have any other things I'm missing, let me know.

Thanks Evan,
Shortstack

AFTazz06
09-08-08, 1:05 am
Ox, once again thanks for taking the time out to help us out here. I have a few questions, i want to start your zero carb diet you mentioned at the begining of this thread to shed body fat and i noticed that you constantly mention healthy fats are a big plus, and Animal Omega is available, can that be taken as the healthy fats during this diet? if so, how many times should i be taking it during a day? Also can i still take Pump during this diet? i know that creatine sometimes make people retain water. Last, what's your take on casein protein? I've read alot of articles that say its a great meal replacement especially right before going to bed.

Current Supps:
Pak
Nitro
Pump
Cuts
intra-aid (won the promo, waiting for it in the mail!!)
Omega
Flex

Ox
09-08-08, 10:09 am
How about Carbs? I dont know much about nutrition but I think a lot of people say its not good to take carbs with fats? Is that true? If so then would I take carbs?

If you're trying to put on clean size do a 1:1:1. If you want to lean out, just do proteins and fats 1:1.

Ox
09-08-08, 10:10 am
Hey Ev, I meant to thank you on my way out of the gym yesterday, about the Greek yogurt tip, but you were in the office and I didn't want to bug you.

Hope the shoulder workout went well. See ya at the gym.


^^^^
BTW, that stuff is pretty good, mixed with my Ezikiel cereal with a drizzle of honey. I gotta find a whole sale place to pick this up though, it ain't cheap. lol

No prob. That yogurt is the shit. It's packed with calories and nutrition. And the taste is ridiculous. I know it's pricey but it's worth it. See ya at the gym.

Ox
09-08-08, 10:15 am
Hey Evan, I've been reading through your posts for some diet ideas and found the first one that you posted. 3 whole food meals and 3 shake meals w/ Carbs added in during the off season. My whole life is an off season at this point so I'll be adding in oats to all of the shakes.

Using this diet, just so you have an idea of what I'm eating, I would like to know your opinion of how I should lay this all out. I lift @ 5am to about 6:30am,Tues, Wed, Fri, and Sunday. No cardio at this point. Get to work @ 8, eat lunch around 11 and home by 5:20.

Sups are Pak, Flex, EFA's everyday. Shock therapy Pre, Torrent and Eaa Nitro Post. As soon as I can get some Intra-pro I'll add that during as well.

Right now the biggest problem is should I eat the eggs and pack before or after I hit the gym then take the first shake shortly after I get to work. Or is there anything else that I need to focus on getting in my stomach before lifting. I starting this diet tomorrow so I'll see how it woks out for me. If you have any other things I'm missing, let me know.

Thanks Evan,
Shortstack


I wouldn't train on an empty stomach. Just to give you an idea, it's a proven fact that you're stronger in the afternoon than in the morning. This is most likely a result of the fact that your glycogen is loaded up and your fully HYDRATED. That's key. So whatever you do in the morning, just make sure you've eaten and are hydrated. I think the eggs, so long as you are in the mood for them, are fine before the gym. Sometimes I prefer a shake first thing because I don't feel ready for eggs right when I wake up. It's up to you. Just make sure you get the food in. Your supps look good.

Ox
09-08-08, 10:20 am
Ox, once again thanks for taking the time out to help us out here. I have a few questions, i want to start your zero carb diet you mentioned at the begining of this thread to shed body fat and i noticed that you constantly mention healthy fats are a big plus, and Animal Omega is available, can that be taken as the healthy fats during this diet? if so, how many times should i be taking it during a day? Also can i still take Pump during this diet? i know that creatine sometimes make people retain water. Last, what's your take on casein protein? I've read alot of articles that say its a great meal replacement especially right before going to bed.

Current Supps:
Pak
Nitro
Pump
Cuts
intra-aid (won the promo, waiting for it in the mail!!)
Omega
Flex


Omega contains primarily, your ESSENTIAL fats and it should be used to give you just that. But fats from things such as nuts, olive oil, mac nut oil, egg yolks and red meat contain healthy fats that are not necessarily essential but you need to consume them also because in this diet, they will serve as your energy source. The amount of fat in Omega would not be enough to keep you going ans supply you with energy. You need food. I would take two paks a day. Pump becomes less effective when you're not consuming carbohydrates as does creatine. Casein is good if you have a very fast metabolism and strong digestion and burn through calories quickly. Supps look good. for the sake of the keto diet, I would replace pump with Uni-Liver and extra Nitro and use Specialized Protein for lean mass as your protein powder.

AFTazz06
09-08-08, 2:16 pm
Omega contains primarily, your ESSENTIAL fats and it should be used to give you just that. But fats from things such as nuts, olive oil, mac nut oil, egg yolks and red meat contain healthy fats that are not necessarily essential but you need to consume them also because in this diet, they will serve as your energy source. The amount of fat in Omega would not be enough to keep you going ans supply you with energy. You need food. I would take two paks a day. Pump becomes less effective when you're not consuming carbohydrates as does creatine. Casein is good if you have a very fast metabolism and strong digestion and burn through calories quickly. Supps look good. for the sake of the keto diet, I would replace pump with Uni-Liver and extra Nitro and use Specialized Protein for lean mass as your protein powder.

Thanks for the reply Ox, sadly due to my budget i can't get the Specialized Protein for Lean Mass at this moment, the only protein powders i have left over from my summer bulk are Whey and Casein, is Whey ok for Keto? i have about half a 5lb tub of each still left, also i just ordered the uni-liver from bb.com pretty cheap so i'm set on that. do i take it same as Pump, 30-45min before workout or can i stack it with nitro right as i'm about to lift?

TheGeneralGB
09-08-08, 4:24 pm
yo whats up evan,
I was a fat kid just like you. my biggest was 286 in junior year of high school. Then i joined the gym and eventually by the time high school was over i was down to a skinny 175. that wasnt really on a bodybuilding diet it was more of a female diet lol but once i started getting serious about working out i got a diet from a friend and he had me just eating loads of clean food. 2 years later i was up to 210 and most of it was quality size. Then i did would do mini cuts and i eventually got down to 195. At the start of this spring i was 195 when i started my cut. i was doing 45 mins cardio in first thing in the morning along with 30 mins pwo. Anyway i got down to 176 and for the first time in my life i had abs lol anyway i feel that ive been dieting in a calorie deficit for way to long now and ive cut the cardio down to only 30 mins first thing in morning 5 times a week. The thing is i cant get over the fear of getting fat again and as a former fat kid yourself you know the feeling of not believing that you have abs when you use to look and see a gut. I know what i have to do but im almost afraid to eat more because i gain fat easily. Im trying to get into bulking mode for the winter and then next spring im going to try a keto diet because this summer i used low carbs and your 1000 percent right that thats the worse way to go. i would crave oatmeal throughout the day and after eating carbs my hunger would sky rocket. Anyway if you could help me out and maybe push me in the right direction id appreciate it. thanks alot bro

sanga
09-09-08, 9:42 am
I`ve just spent pretty much 3 hours reading this thread and there is some excellent stuff on here, I`ve read some of it before but not start to finish (actually I`m taking a break to eat, I`m on page 62) what I`ve learned so far-

1/ Ox is big on keto and is big period, lol

2/ Keto means zero carbs (we all knew that anyway, didn`t we?) but so many posts about carbs appearing naturally in certain foods, i.e. Almonds (which are ok) not everyone knew that though. Is Torrent ok? etc etc etc, no its got carbs in it.

3/ 1 cheat meal per week, not cheat day, cheat meal and that is best at end of day or you may end up eating more carbs at the next meal, the cheat meal is a cheat so lots of carbs, doesn`t have to be clean but has to be a lot, 200g for instance, chocolate is fine too, excellent.

I knew a lot about the keto diet previously but I have learned a hell of a lot more about keto so far and I`m only on page 62.

I have been doing 3 days no carbs, 1 day carbs, 2 days no carbs, 1 day carbs and its been working great (Thanks very much to Vinnys articles on here and universal, what a brilliant physique Vinny has, very helpful guy too), I`ve slowed right down now and stopped dropping, I think now is the time to hit keto full on so as I`m on day 2 of the no carb I`ll continue to run it on for a whole 2 weeks then have a cheat meal which will probably be curry with all the trimmings and chocolate, yummy.

Excellent stuff on here Evan, many thanks for answering all our questions and just being here for us all, we all apprieciate it.

This site really is the dogs bollox, how many other sites can boast having as many pros, seasoned bodybuilders and hardcore trainers as this one.

I can`t wait till cage 09 to meet up with everyone, Vinny, Tiny, Ox and the pros, really looking forward to it.

Thanks.

Maccabee
09-09-08, 9:45 am
If you're trying to put on clean size do a 1:1:1. If you want to lean out, just do proteins and fats 1:1.

Thank You.

shortstack
09-09-08, 10:59 am
I wouldn't train on an empty stomach. Just to give you an idea, it's a proven fact that you're stronger in the afternoon than in the morning. This is most likely a result of the fact that your glycogen is loaded up and your fully HYDRATED. That's key. So whatever you do in the morning, just make sure you've eaten and are hydrated. I think the eggs, so long as you are in the mood for them, are fine before the gym. Sometimes I prefer a shake first thing because I don't feel ready for eggs right when I wake up. It's up to you. Just make sure you get the food in. Your supps look good.

Hey Evan, thanks for looking at my diet plan. I followed it 100% and really didn't mind the changes. The eggs were a little rough because I'm not used to eating whole foods @ 4:30am, plus by the time I downed the Shock Therapy that was a gross mixture in my gut but, oh well.
Thanks Again
Shortstack

Ox
09-10-08, 9:36 am
Thanks for the reply Ox, sadly due to my budget i can't get the Specialized Protein for Lean Mass at this moment, the only protein powders i have left over from my summer bulk are Whey and Casein, is Whey ok for Keto? i have about half a 5lb tub of each still left, also i just ordered the uni-liver from bb.com pretty cheap so i'm set on that. do i take it same as Pump, 30-45min before workout or can i stack it with nitro right as i'm about to lift?

Yeah man whey is fine. I would take the pump before training and the nitro during.

Ox
09-10-08, 9:42 am
yo whats up evan,
I was a fat kid just like you. my biggest was 286 in junior year of high school. Then i joined the gym and eventually by the time high school was over i was down to a skinny 175. that wasnt really on a bodybuilding diet it was more of a female diet lol but once i started getting serious about working out i got a diet from a friend and he had me just eating loads of clean food. 2 years later i was up to 210 and most of it was quality size. Then i did would do mini cuts and i eventually got down to 195. At the start of this spring i was 195 when i started my cut. i was doing 45 mins cardio in first thing in the morning along with 30 mins pwo. Anyway i got down to 176 and for the first time in my life i had abs lol anyway i feel that ive been dieting in a calorie deficit for way to long now and ive cut the cardio down to only 30 mins first thing in morning 5 times a week. The thing is i cant get over the fear of getting fat again and as a former fat kid yourself you know the feeling of not believing that you have abs when you use to look and see a gut. I know what i have to do but im almost afraid to eat more because i gain fat easily. Im trying to get into bulking mode for the winter and then next spring im going to try a keto diet because this summer i used low carbs and your 1000 percent right that thats the worse way to go. i would crave oatmeal throughout the day and after eating carbs my hunger would sky rocket. Anyway if you could help me out and maybe push me in the right direction id appreciate it. thanks alot bro


Dude I know exactly how you feel. It took me a LONG time to finally eat enough because I was always afraid I was going to get fat. But trust me, if you've got muscle on your body and your training hard and plus your years older now, your body is so much different and you wont put on fat like you used to. I think a keto diet is a great way for you to go. In fact, with the added fats I believe you will grow while you get in better shape. I told you LOW carbs sucks! If you're 200 lbs then just shoot for around 220g of protein and 90g of fat per day. Spread that over 3 meals and 3 shakes and add green veggies with your whole food meals.

Ox
09-10-08, 9:45 am
I`ve just spent pretty much 3 hours reading this thread and there is some excellent stuff on here, I`ve read some of it before but not start to finish (actually I`m taking a break to eat, I`m on page 62) what I`ve learned so far-

1/ Ox is big on keto and is big period, lol

2/ Keto means zero carbs (we all knew that anyway, didn`t we?) but so many posts about carbs appearing naturally in certain foods, i.e. Almonds (which are ok) not everyone knew that though. Is Torrent ok? etc etc etc, no its got carbs in it.

3/ 1 cheat meal per week, not cheat day, cheat meal and that is best at end of day or you may end up eating more carbs at the next meal, the cheat meal is a cheat so lots of carbs, doesn`t have to be clean but has to be a lot, 200g for instance, chocolate is fine too, excellent.

I knew a lot about the keto diet previously but I have learned a hell of a lot more about keto so far and I`m only on page 62.

I have been doing 3 days no carbs, 1 day carbs, 2 days no carbs, 1 day carbs and its been working great (Thanks very much to Vinnys articles on here and universal, what a brilliant physique Vinny has, very helpful guy too), I`ve slowed right down now and stopped dropping, I think now is the time to hit keto full on so as I`m on day 2 of the no carb I`ll continue to run it on for a whole 2 weeks then have a cheat meal which will probably be curry with all the trimmings and chocolate, yummy.

Excellent stuff on here Evan, many thanks for answering all our questions and just being here for us all, we all apprieciate it.

This site really is the dogs bollox, how many other sites can boast having as many pros, seasoned bodybuilders and hardcore trainers as this one.

I can`t wait till cage 09 to meet up with everyone, Vinny, Tiny, Ox and the pros, really looking forward to it.

Thanks.

Glad to hear that you've found the info usefull. I think going full keto is a great idea for you at this point. And you're right about this site. Everyone works together and offers up what they know. It's a collective effort. Peace.

Ox
09-10-08, 9:46 am
Hey Evan, thanks for looking at my diet plan. I followed it 100% and really didn't mind the changes. The eggs were a little rough because I'm not used to eating whole foods @ 4:30am, plus by the time I downed the Shock Therapy that was a gross mixture in my gut but, oh well.
Thanks Again
Shortstack

If you'd rather, you can have a shake instead of the eggs first thing in the morning before training.

badrock
09-10-08, 2:35 pm
Evan im definitely interested in your overall approach toward training. Which do you feel is more effective? A volume approach or kind of a less is more way of training? What do you think about newer methods like DC?

sanga
09-10-08, 4:06 pm
Glad to hear that you've found the info usefull. I think going full keto is a great idea for you at this point. And you're right about this site. Everyone works together and offers up what they know. It's a collective effort. Peace.

Hey Evan, thanks for your reply, I apprieciate your time and that of others that participate on this forum.

I have the diet down pat and its going well although I feel a little crap as expected along with a nasty taste in my mouth, breath must be a bit whiffy too with no carbs, lol, only went 3 days without carbs previously.

One thing I did find very refreshing was your post on diet when switching from cutting to bulking, you keep the basic keto style diet and just add carbs where needed, most people don`t think of this (including myself in the past), they change the diet completely to bulk, very good, you have really got me thinking on this and I`m glad to say I have it all mapped out after I`ve finished cutting ready to bulk again, its a simple matter of adding the carbs to the basic keto template then if you need to cut some more later on just drop the carbs, so simple and yet so effective, thanks.

G Diesel
09-11-08, 9:04 am
Amazingly informative thread bro, thanks for sharing the knowledge... Look forward to seeing you in Vegas, we're gonna have a blast. Peace, G

AFTazz06
09-12-08, 9:09 pm
Ox, is intra-aid ok to take while on the Keto diet? I know its the new thing everybody is talking about and like myself, want to try it out.

Beast4Life
09-13-08, 5:14 am
Hey Ox, two questions:

Are broccoli and spinach leaves both ok to eat on keto? I prefer these vegetables, so if they're fine i'll eat them with my chicken breast meals.

What were the strength differences like on the keto diet, as opposed to the typical low carb/carb cycling diet?

sanga
09-13-08, 11:56 am
Not trying to answer for Ox, I eat these two also, both are ok on keto.

My strength went down but its started to climb again slowly now and the pumps are coming back,I `m loving the condition I`m getting into too.

Ox
09-14-08, 5:19 pm
Evan im definitely interested in your overall approach toward training. Which do you feel is more effective? A volume approach or kind of a less is more way of training? What do you think about newer methods like DC?

I think a variety is what's effective. Nothing works all the time. I think that training should always be changing and adjusting depending on different factors. Sometimes volume is good. Sometimes less is more.

Ox
09-14-08, 5:20 pm
Hey Evan, thanks for your reply, I apprieciate your time and that of others that participate on this forum.

I have the diet down pat and its going well although I feel a little crap as expected along with a nasty taste in my mouth, breath must be a bit whiffy too with no carbs, lol, only went 3 days without carbs previously.

One thing I did find very refreshing was your post on diet when switching from cutting to bulking, you keep the basic keto style diet and just add carbs where needed, most people don`t think of this (including myself in the past), they change the diet completely to bulk, very good, you have really got me thinking on this and I`m glad to say I have it all mapped out after I`ve finished cutting ready to bulk again, its a simple matter of adding the carbs to the basic keto template then if you need to cut some more later on just drop the carbs, so simple and yet so effective, thanks.


I think that changes shouldn't be that drastic. Just like wth training; I keep it more or less the same year-round. Keep it simple!

Ox
09-14-08, 5:21 pm
Amazingly informative thread bro, thanks for sharing the knowledge... Look forward to seeing you in Vegas, we're gonna have a blast. Peace, G

Gonna be fun brother. You, Frank, Erik...I can't wait to hang with you guys.

Ox
09-14-08, 5:22 pm
Ox, is intra-aid ok to take while on the Keto diet? I know its the new thing everybody is talking about and like myself, want to try it out.

For the sake of Keto, it won't work. If you want to try it, throw it in with a cheat meal.

Ox
09-14-08, 5:23 pm
Hey Ox, two questions:

Are broccoli and spinach leaves both ok to eat on keto? I prefer these vegetables, so if they're fine i'll eat them with my chicken breast meals.

What were the strength differences like on the keto diet, as opposed to the typical low carb/carb cycling diet?

Broccoli and spinach are great. My strength was pretty much the same with both but my energy is 10x better with NO carbs.

Ox
09-14-08, 5:24 pm
Not trying to answer for Ox, I eat these two also, both are ok on keto.

My strength went down but its started to climb again slowly now and the pumps are coming back,I `m loving the condition I`m getting into too.

That's the hardest part is holding on until you get to that point. Once you're there, it's great.

DeadliftX
09-14-08, 6:16 pm
ive been reading thru ur keto as and maybe i just missed it i dunno? what supps u recomend while on a keto? any a must and any a no go?

Maiden69
09-14-08, 7:42 pm
Broccoli and spinach are great. My strength was pretty much the same with both but my energy is 10x better with NO carbs.

Hey Evan, I got a question. All the carbs that I'm taking (out of the cheat meal) are from nuts, pb, from some cheese (1 or 2g) and 9-13g from Shock Therapy. I used to eat some spinach and other fibers at the beginning but I'm pretty regular now without them, I guess the fiber from the almonds with every shake are doing the work. Is that OK? I see on this response that you say NO carbs, am I ok doing it like this? I replaced Pump for ST when I started feeling the creatine not being as effective as before. Is this supplement OK, for the diet? Other than that I got PAK and OMEGA and I should be getting M-Stak tues or wed.

sanga
09-15-08, 3:55 am
I think that changes shouldn't be that drastic. Just like wth training; I keep it more or less the same year-round. Keep it simple!


Thanks Evan, so when I go back to bulking if I add in small carb meals of around 30g with say post workout to start for a few days then add in more as time goes on over the next week, so PWO then PWO and breakfast and so on? So within 3 weeks of finishing keto I`d perhaps be on 3-4 low carb meals a day of oats / potatos, thoughts.

Beast4Life
09-15-08, 3:58 am
Broccoli and spinach are great. My strength was pretty much the same with both but my energy is 10x better with NO carbs.

Thanks Ox.

sanga
09-15-08, 3:59 am
That's the hardest part is holding on until you get to that point. Once you're there, it's great.


You`re right and although I`m not as strong or have as much energy yet I am looking so much better, comments from a lot of people as to how in shape I`m getting, even though to me I look small and flat, lol.

AFTazz06
09-15-08, 7:57 am
Ox, just wanted to let ya know i'm starting the keto diet today. I'll admit i'm a bit nervous to see how these first couple days go, but at the same time i know this is going to give me the results i've been looking for to show the hard earned muscle. A few stats about me; 6', 238lbs, havent measured body fat % in a few months but last time i checked it was 26%. i'll be following the sample keto you posted in this thread a while back, around the 2nd-3rd page, so here i go!

Ox
09-16-08, 8:50 am
ive been reading thru ur keto as and maybe i just missed it i dunno? what supps u recomend while on a keto? any a must and any a no go?

Animal Pak, Nitro, Omega, Specialized Protein for Lean Mass, Iso-Whey, Flex, Uni-Liver, EAA Stack, ZMA Pro are all great on stack.

The only product that doesn't work as well when you ron keto is Pump because you need a good amount of carbs to get the most out of it. Will it still work? Yes. It just isn't the OPTIMAL diet to use it with.

Any products with added sugar or carbohydrates obviously need to be left out in order to actually get into and stay in ketosis.

Ox
09-16-08, 8:52 am
Hey Evan, I got a question. All the carbs that I'm taking (out of the cheat meal) are from nuts, pb, from some cheese (1 or 2g) and 9-13g from Shock Therapy. I used to eat some spinach and other fibers at the beginning but I'm pretty regular now without them, I guess the fiber from the almonds with every shake are doing the work. Is that OK? I see on this response that you say NO carbs, am I ok doing it like this? I replaced Pump for ST when I started feeling the creatine not being as effective as before. Is this supplement OK, for the diet? Other than that I got PAK and OMEGA and I should be getting M-Stak tues or wed.

If you're regular you're regular. As for the cheat meal, you should be eating starchy and direct carb sources like rice, potatos, pasta etc. What's ST?

Ox
09-16-08, 8:53 am
Thanks Evan, so when I go back to bulking if I add in small carb meals of around 30g with say post workout to start for a few days then add in more as time goes on over the next week, so PWO then PWO and breakfast and so on? So within 3 weeks of finishing keto I`d perhaps be on 3-4 low carb meals a day of oats / potatos, thoughts.

You could do that. I think it's better to just go right to carbs 3 times a day and then go up from there. Having em once a day is no good.

Ox
09-16-08, 8:54 am
Ox, just wanted to let ya know i'm starting the keto diet today. I'll admit i'm a bit nervous to see how these first couple days go, but at the same time i know this is going to give me the results i've been looking for to show the hard earned muscle. A few stats about me; 6', 238lbs, havent measured body fat % in a few months but last time i checked it was 26%. i'll be following the sample keto you posted in this thread a while back, around the 2nd-3rd page, so here i go!

Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress.

sanga
09-16-08, 8:58 am
You could do that. I think it's better to just go right to carbs 3 times a day and then go up from there. Having em once a day is no good.


Ok, the reasoning behind it was to break myself back in gently and not cause too much water retention but then again its just water that will sort itself out soon enough, thanks for the reply I`ll go with 3 times a day to start.

Lunatic001
09-16-08, 10:46 am
Animal Pak, Nitro, Omega, Specialized Protein for Lean Mass, Iso-Whey, Flex, Uni-Liver, EAA Stack, ZMA Pro are all great on stack.

The only product that doesn't work as well when you ron keto is Pump because you need a good amount of carbs to get the most out of it. Will it still work? Yes. It just isn't the OPTIMAL diet to use it with.

Any products with added sugar or carbohydrates obviously need to be left out in order to actually get into and stay in ketosis.

thanks man for this info.....

Maiden69
09-16-08, 12:37 pm
If you're regular you're regular. As for the cheat meal, you should be eating starchy and direct carb sources like rice, potatos, pasta etc. What's ST?

ST=Shock Therapy, it has 9g of carb per serving, and that is the only carb other than in the meals that I'm taking. Yeah, for my cheat meal I'm taking rice, sweet potato, yams, pasta. Last week I eat a home made calzone I think it was a little too much, but I haven't had one in more than 6 months.

So for the regular days on the Keto, I don't need the greens? All I'm taking now are eggs, meat, chicken, pork, whey, evoo, tuna w/mayo (I can't stand the taste of tuna alone), cheese and almonds or peanuts.

By the way, thanks for all the help!

bunda
09-16-08, 2:47 pm
hey man,

theres endless pages of questions on the keto diet but i havent seen many questions about your training.

whats your split look like? what the hell you did to get your back and tri's so fucken massive.. and what did you do in your younger days to pack on the size

keep up the good work bro

p.s. you shuold do some more in the trenches with MD, yours are the best ones haha

Lunatic001
09-16-08, 7:14 pm
Animal Pak, Nitro, Omega, Specialized Protein for Lean Mass, Iso-Whey, Flex, Uni-Liver, EAA Stack, ZMA Pro are all great on stack.

The only product that doesn't work as well when you ron keto is Pump because you need a good amount of carbs to get the most out of it. Will it still work? Yes. It just isn't the OPTIMAL diet to use it with.

Any products with added sugar or carbohydrates obviously need to be left out in order to actually get into and stay in ketosis.

Ox,

Just to double check, we should avoid creatine in general during keto right? Creatine doesn't work well due to the lack of carbs. Thanks for all your help.....how is the prep coming along? I read in another post (either here or in MD forum) that you where just maintaining then maybe bulk and then start dieting in Jan 09 for the NY pro...is this still the plan??? Wish you the best....

Lunatic

Ox
09-16-08, 9:11 pm
ST=Shock Therapy, it has 9g of carb per serving, and that is the only carb other than in the meals that I'm taking. Yeah, for my cheat meal I'm taking rice, sweet potato, yams, pasta. Last week I eat a home made calzone I think it was a little too much, but I haven't had one in more than 6 months.

So for the regular days on the Keto, I don't need the greens? All I'm taking now are eggs, meat, chicken, pork, whey, evoo, tuna w/mayo (I can't stand the taste of tuna alone), cheese and almonds or peanuts.

By the way, thanks for all the help!

Shock Therapy isn' the best choice for Keto. I'd go with Storm instead. You throw in SOME greens with your food. You need greens to keep you healthy. Ditch the cheese and mayo.

Ox
09-16-08, 9:14 pm
hey man,

theres endless pages of questions on the keto diet but i havent seen many questions about your training.

whats your split look like? what the hell you did to get your back and tri's so fucken massive.. and what did you do in your younger days to pack on the size

keep up the good work bro

p.s. you shuold do some more in the trenches with MD, yours are the best ones haha

My split looks like this:

Monday- Quads
Tuesday- Chest and Abs
Wednesday- Off
Thursday- Back
Friday- Delts and Hams
Saturday- Arms and Calves
Sunday- Off

For my back I do a variety of stuff. Sometimes I do deads, somtimes I don't. If you're trying to put size on your back I'd made barbell rows, deads, and dumbell yours a priority. for tris, skullcrushers, pushdowns and dips are great. To gain size when I was younger I just ate like hell, trained, and constantly asked myself what I could be doing to be better.

Ox
09-16-08, 9:16 pm
Ox,

Just to double check, we should avoid creatine in general during keto right? Creatine doesn't work well due to the lack of carbs. Thanks for all your help.....how is the prep coming along? I read in another post (either here or in MD forum) that you where just maintaining then maybe bulk and then start dieting in Jan 09 for the NY pro...is this still the plan??? Wish you the best....

Lunatic

Some people still use creating when cutting/keto but I feel that you need carbs to get the full benefit out of it. However, Storm does work without carbohydrate ingestion. I just feel that you get OPTIMAL results when you have more carbs in your diet and for that reason, I relegate it to offseason use.

Right now I'm coasting and maintaining and in another week or so it's on. I'll gain from then until January when I begin dieting. I'm looking forward to making some serious gains. Thank you for asking. NY Pro 09. No doubt.

AFTazz06
09-16-08, 11:56 pm
Ox, what are some cheat meals you either use or recommend during Keto? I think i'm gonna have my cheat meal on saturdays since it's my off day from training. Is it better to have a cheat meal early in the day or late in the day? Thanks once again!

Maiden69
09-17-08, 7:52 am
Shock Therapy isn' the best choice for Keto. I'd go with Storm instead.

So use Storm pre WO? I guess I will turn back to Pump since it is just pills no carbs, is that one OK? All I'm looking for is a pre work out booster with NO.

Lunatic001
09-17-08, 10:50 am
Some people still use creating when cutting/keto but I feel that you need carbs to get the full benefit out of it. However, Storm does work without carbohydrate ingestion. I just feel that you get OPTIMAL results when you have more carbs in your diet and for that reason, I relegate it to offseason use.

Right now I'm coasting and maintaining and in another week or so it's on. I'll gain from then until January when I begin dieting. I'm looking forward to making some serious gains. Thank you for asking. NY Pro 09. No doubt.

Ox thanks for your advice....can't wait to see you hit the stage....you will take over.....keep doing what you're doing becuase it seems that in every pic you get bigger and bigger...

Lunatic

MickMars
09-17-08, 1:47 pm
Hey Evan,

Do you take less calories on your off-days during your cut/offseason?

Currently I supplement with extra virgin olive oil and Udo's 3-6-9 oil... what are other good types of fat to add to my supplementation?

Mizzarler
09-17-08, 11:25 pm
Hey Ox, quick question...do you ever start your chest workout out with a fly movement? I always start with a press (incline or flat) and looking to develop a tight cut up chest and I just started dieting and doing cardio more so I know that will help too...thanks

Ox
09-18-08, 9:05 am
Ox, what are some cheat meals you either use or recommend during Keto? I think i'm gonna have my cheat meal on saturdays since it's my off day from training. Is it better to have a cheat meal early in the day or late in the day? Thanks once again!

I like a burger and fries or sushi. I think it's best to have your cheat meal as the LAST meal of the day.

LittleMan55
09-18-08, 9:07 am
Ox,

Just wanted to stop by and say you are the man! Can't wait to see what you bring to the stage in '09 bro!

BS55

Ox
09-18-08, 9:07 am
Hey Evan,

Do you take less calories on your off-days during your cut/offseason?

Currently I supplement with extra virgin olive oil and Udo's 3-6-9 oil... what are other good types of fat to add to my supplementation?

I eat the same amount each day. I sometimes eat more on the days I don't train because I have more time to eat. UDO's oil is crap...lose it. Extra Virgin Oilve Oil and Macadamia Nut Oil are the best oil sources of fat. Raw almonds and walnuts, whole eggs, fatty fish, and of course Animal Omega, are all great fat sources.

Ox
09-18-08, 9:08 am
Hey Ox, quick question...do you ever start your chest workout out with a fly movement? I always start with a press (incline or flat) and looking to develop a tight cut up chest and I just started dieting and doing cardio more so I know that will help too...thanks

Every other week I pre-exhaust and start with fly movements. It's great for helping to reinforce the mind muscle connection on your pressing movements.

AFTazz06
09-18-08, 9:09 am
I like a burger and fries or sushi. I think it's best to have your cheat meal as the LAST meal of the day.

ok awesome, thanks. So as far as Nitro being taken with grape or any juice, i noticed some grape juices have up to 39g of carbs. Is this ok since its from a fruit? or should i go ahead and take nitro with water only? thats how i've been taking it since monday when i started Keto and i just want to double check with yah to make sure i'm doing things right. Thanks again Ox!

Ox
09-18-08, 9:09 am
Ox,

Just wanted to stop by and say you are the man! Can't wait to see what you bring to the stage in '09 bro!

BS55

Thanks bro! Much appreicated.

Ox
09-18-08, 9:10 am
ok awesome, thanks. So as far as Nitro being taken with grape or any juice, i noticed some grape juices have up to 39g of carbs. Is this ok since its from a fruit? or should i go ahead and take nitro with water only? thats how i've been taking it since monday when i started Keto and i just want to double check with yah to make sure i'm doing things right. Thanks again Ox!

IF YOU ARE DOING KETO YOU CANNOT HAVE SUGARS/CARBS! :) 39g of crabs is no good. Just take a couple backs of nitro during training with water. Trust me, it will work very well.

AFTazz06
09-18-08, 9:47 am
IF YOU ARE DOING KETO YOU CANNOT HAVE SUGARS/CARBS! :) 39g of crabs is no good. Just take a couple backs of nitro during training with water. Trust me, it will work very well.

Ok thanks, that's what i meant, that i was taking it with water not the juice. I havent bought any after seeing the amount of carbs they have.

MickMars
09-18-08, 12:47 pm
I eat the same amount each day. I sometimes eat more on the days I don't train because I have more time to eat. UDO's oil is crap...lose it. Extra Virgin Oilve Oil and Macadamia Nut Oil are the best oil sources of fat. Raw almonds and walnuts, whole eggs, fatty fish, and of course Animal Omega, are all great fat sources.

Thanks bro! appreciate the quick reply.

futilekyle
09-18-08, 5:57 pm
Hey Ox, what are your thoughts on water depletion for a show, some say its neccesary , others think it flattens you out, what do you do personally

My first competition is in 8 weeks and I'm getting nervous (Eastern USA Championships)

Mizzarler
09-19-08, 1:11 am
Every other week I pre-exhaust and start with fly movements. It's great for helping to reinforce the mind muscle connection on your pressing movements.

Thanks Ox ill start out next session with incline db flys, your the man!

Ox
09-19-08, 12:01 pm
I just got my intra-aid the other day and took it for a ride. In my opinion, the true test for any "during training" supplement is its performance on leg day. Whenever I train legs, typically about half way through training, somewhere between squats and drops on hacks, I get a desire to drink a lot of fluid. I've made the mistake numerous times of slamming some gatorade or powerade and ended up puking my guts out ten minutes later. I think it must have to do with it fucking with my blood sugar or something.

Anyways, I incorporated some intra-aid the other day during legs and sipped it throughout my training and even cugged it a little at one point...no problems. Not only did I not barf, I didn't feel the least bit sick. I actually felt solid from start to finish and just pushed straight through with no drop off. I think it has just the right amount of carbs and with the aminos and beta-alanine, your stamina is definitely increased. Solid fuckin' product.

Ox
09-19-08, 12:03 pm
Hey Ox, what are your thoughts on water depletion for a show, some say its neccesary , others think it flattens you out, what do you do personally

My first competition is in 8 weeks and I'm getting nervous (Eastern USA Championships)

It depends on the person. Some people come in with tremendous conditioning and hold almost no water. Some people need to deplete it to get that crisp look. You'll have to wait and see how you look to decide if you need to or not.

naturalguy
09-19-08, 12:09 pm
I just got my intra-aid the other day and took it for a ride. In my opinion, the true test for any "during training" supplement is its performance on leg day. Whenever I train legs, typically about half way through training, somewhere between squats and drops on hacks, I get a desire to drink a lot of fluid. I've made the mistake numerous times of slamming some gatorade or powerade and ended up puking my guts out ten minutes later. I think it must have to do with it fucking with my blood sugar or something.

Anyways, I incorporated some intra-aid the other day during legs and sipped it throughout my training and even cugged it a little at one point...no problems. Not only did I not barf, I didn't feel the least bit sick. I actually felt solid from start to finish and just pushed straight through with no drop off. I think it has just the right amount of carbs and with the aminos and beta-alanine, your stamina is definitely increased. Solid fuckin' product.

Good to hear your feedback, keep us updated on how you like it.

Thetasteofink69
09-19-08, 12:36 pm
Hey Evan

I'm finally getting ready to start my cut.. I was supposed to start a few weeks ago but this hurricane really fucked up my plans.. Anyway, I have a few questions first.. My current protein has 3g of carbs, 1g sugars.. Will this screw up a keto diet if I'm taking like 3 scoops a day?

And when do you think I should do cardio?.. First thing in the morning, or after my weight training? And can I switch it up or do I have to keep it the same every day? Because I'm in college and there are some days when it will be easier to do cardio in the morning, and other days when it would be easier to do it after my weight training.. Also, if I do it in the morning, when should I take Nitro?

sanga
09-19-08, 2:36 pm
Hey Evan the keto diet is going well, dropping bodyfat, cardio is 6 days a week with training split 4 days.

Got a question about keto and illness,do you find you are more susceptable to sore throats,colds etc?

Greek Elite
09-19-08, 3:11 pm
Hey Evan

I'm finally getting ready to start my cut.. I was supposed to start a few weeks ago but this hurricane really fucked up my plans.. Anyway, I have a few questions first.. My current protein has 3g of carbs, 1g sugars.. Will this screw up a keto diet if I'm taking like 3 scoops a day?

And when do you think I should do cardio?.. First thing in the morning, or after my weight training? And can I switch it up or do I have to keep it the same every day? Because I'm in college and there are some days when it will be easier to do cardio in the morning, and other days when it would be easier to do it after my weight training.. Also, if I do it in the morning, when should I take Nitro?

i am currently doing keto as well and have a cpl of answers to your questions.. first, pwo carbs such as your shake are pretty much ok since they will only partially refill muscle glycogen, not liver glycogen (liver glyc has to be depleted to be in ketosis) so as long as you dont eat fruit pwo or too many carbs your good (ie you dont count the carbs but you DO count the cals).. i am actually taking intra-aid on keto and its workin for me, although i never had a way to tell i was in ketosis im confident i am since its only 10 g and intra-wo

cardio on keto is best in the AM, most people do LISS most of the week w/ maybe 1-2 session of HIIT, if that.. and make sure to take BCAA's to keep your muskelz


Hey Evan the keto diet is going well, dropping bodyfat, cardio is 6 days a week with training split 4 days.

Got a question about keto and illness,do you find you are more susceptable to sore throats,colds etc?

i dont mean to steal his question, but i havent been sick once since starting keto (almost 5-6 months now).. then again i have also been regiment on my multi and exercise so that probably helps too, but keto is def a good booster in overall health despite what alot of ppl think based on the foods we eat

lol dont mean to hijack this thread but thought i may as well answer.. now time to cruise this thread and see how you do your keto thing

Roland
09-19-08, 3:14 pm
I just got my intra-aid the other day and took it for a ride. In my opinion, the true test for any "during training" supplement is its performance on leg day. Whenever I train legs, typically about half way through training, somewhere between squats and drops on hacks, I get a desire to drink a lot of fluid. I've made the mistake numerous times of slamming some gatorade or powerade and ended up puking my guts out ten minutes later. I think it must have to do with it fucking with my blood sugar or something.

Anyways, I incorporated some intra-aid the other day during legs and sipped it throughout my training and even cugged it a little at one point...no problems. Not only did I not barf, I didn't feel the least bit sick. I actually felt solid from start to finish and just pushed straight through with no drop off. I think it has just the right amount of carbs and with the aminos and beta-alanine, your stamina is definitely increased. Solid fuckin' product.

I agree with you brother...Intra-AID works, no doubt...I also felt good energy and recovery and just blasted thru my workout for my first serving..

TheGeneralGB
09-19-08, 3:44 pm
yo whats up ox?
anyway quick question, i know natural peanut butter is a good source of fat but i cant seem to incorporate it into my diet. not because i dont like it but because im obsessed with it. maybe its because it actually is loaded with flavor compared to all the dry chicken and everything else i usually eat. I know that when your body craves certain things its usually because it feels it needs more of it the same way low carb diets make you crave carbs more. could this be the case with the peanut butter? thanks

midwest
09-19-08, 4:55 pm
hey ox new to postin been readin for about 8 months and ive seen a few people say to stay away from N.O. supps..... what is ur opinion on this?

by the way i stop by ur site once a moth or so.... good shit bro

holdyahead
09-19-08, 5:56 pm
hey im trying to change my workout schedule n i was wondering what a solid week for u looks like. i usually train arms twice a week. i happen to like it but do u think its too much. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

sanga
09-20-08, 1:21 pm
Evan, I`ve been told by a few people that have done the keto diet for 20 weeks plus that they add psyllium husks twice daily into the diet after 4 weeks or so as a source of fibre and to keep them regular, these contain carbs but are they the same as fiberous veg and not counted ?

sanga
09-20-08, 2:41 pm
First time I`ve seen this, fucking excellent.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3QtMzP5xXgw&feature=related

Lunatic001
09-22-08, 2:25 pm
Ox,

How is everything coming along? Ready for the Olympia weekend? what are your predictions? Well I was wondering if you could take a look at the following bulk diet for an individual with LBM of 200 lbs who unfortunately can only lift in the morning.....your input is appreciated....i put every answer you gave me throughout these past couple of months to finally come up with a diet plan (hopefully I get it right)...thanks ahead of time....

Pre workout: Pump/or Storm, Nitro pak
0500 AM workout/EAA stack during
Post workout: 2 Nitro paks

Meal 1: 4 eggs, 1.5 cups oatmeal, 4 uni-liver, pak, omega
Meal 2: 2 scoops Ultra Iso, .5 cup oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-liver, 400 mg vit C, 200IU vit E
Meal 3: 8 oz tilapia, 1.5 cups of rice, .1/2 cup almonds, flex, 4 uni-liver
Meal 4: 1 scoop Ultra Iso, .5 cup oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-liver
Meal 5: 6 oz chicken, 1.5 cups rice, 4 unilivers, 400 mg vit C, 200IU vit E
Meal 6: 1 scoop Ultra Iso, 1.5 oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-livers

Calories: 3671 Protein: 319 grams, Carbs: 309 Fat: 127g (i tried 1:1:1 P:C:F ratio)

Thanks,
Lunatic

Blunos
09-22-08, 4:02 pm
Hi Ox, !

Quick question, Can you have Broccoli when on Keto, if yes at what amount would you suggest ? as i love the stuff

Many Thanks,
Blunos

thehawk
09-23-08, 4:30 am
Hey ox, I was told that if I mix protein with non skimmed milk, it will be digested slowly, so I'm taking protein with milk in the morning and during bedtime, and I mix protein with water immediately after workout. any comment?

Ox
09-23-08, 9:49 am
Hey Evan

I'm finally getting ready to start my cut.. I was supposed to start a few weeks ago but this hurricane really fucked up my plans.. Anyway, I have a few questions first.. My current protein has 3g of carbs, 1g sugars.. Will this screw up a keto diet if I'm taking like 3 scoops a day?

And when do you think I should do cardio?.. First thing in the morning, or after my weight training? And can I switch it up or do I have to keep it the same every day? Because I'm in college and there are some days when it will be easier to do cardio in the morning, and other days when it would be easier to do it after my weight training.. Also, if I do it in the morning, when should I take Nitro?

I would finish the protein and then switch to something better. That CAN mess you up. I would do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and if you get up to over an hour, split it up and do the other session pwo. Take nitro during cardio and during weight training sessions.

Ox
09-23-08, 9:52 am
i am currently doing keto as well and have a cpl of answers to your questions.. first, pwo carbs such as your shake are pretty much ok since they will only partially refill muscle glycogen, not liver glycogen (liver glyc has to be depleted to be in ketosis) so as long as you dont eat fruit pwo or too many carbs your good (ie you dont count the carbs but you DO count the cals).. i am actually taking intra-aid on keto and its workin for me, although i never had a way to tell i was in ketosis im confident i am since its only 10 g and intra-wo

cardio on keto is best in the AM, most people do LISS most of the week w/ maybe 1-2 session of HIIT, if that.. and make sure to take BCAA's to keep your muskelz



i dont mean to steal his question, but i havent been sick once since starting keto (almost 5-6 months now).. then again i have also been regiment on my multi and exercise so that probably helps too, but keto is def a good booster in overall health despite what alot of ppl think based on the foods we eat

lol dont mean to hijack this thread but thought i may as well answer.. now time to cruise this thread and see how you do your keto thing


You actually DO count the grams of carbs when on Keto...that's the premis of the diet. Also, why would you think it's a good idea to take Intra-Aid which has 10g of carbs which are incredibly glycemic? High intensity cardio is also a bad idea on keto...all you'll burn is muscle.

Ox
09-23-08, 9:53 am
yo whats up ox?
anyway quick question, i know natural peanut butter is a good source of fat but i cant seem to incorporate it into my diet. not because i dont like it but because im obsessed with it. maybe its because it actually is loaded with flavor compared to all the dry chicken and everything else i usually eat. I know that when your body craves certain things its usually because it feels it needs more of it the same way low carb diets make you crave carbs more. could this be the case with the peanut butter? thanks

Could be. I have heard a lot of people say this about PB. You may want to try using Mac Nut oil in your shakes instead. It will still give you the fat but not such intense taste.

Ox
09-23-08, 9:55 am
hey ox new to postin been readin for about 8 months and ive seen a few people say to stay away from N.O. supps..... what is ur opinion on this?

by the way i stop by ur site once a moth or so.... good shit bro

I think NO supplements are great. I think they work really well unless you don't have a lot of carbs in your diet. So during keto,I don't think it works as well. Otherwise, great stuff.

Ox
09-23-08, 9:57 am
hey im trying to change my workout schedule n i was wondering what a solid week for u looks like. i usually train arms twice a week. i happen to like it but do u think its too much. any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mon- Quads
Tues- Chest and abs
Wed- Off
Thurs- Back
Fri- Hams and Delts
Sat- Arms and Calves
Sun- Off

I think twice a week is too much to train any bodypart. Recovery is key.

Ox
09-23-08, 9:59 am
Evan, I`ve been told by a few people that have done the keto diet for 20 weeks plus that they add psyllium husks twice daily into the diet after 4 weeks or so as a source of fibre and to keep them regular, these contain carbs but are they the same as fiberous veg and not counted ?

I usually incorporate two servings of metamucil (sugar free) per day during keto for regularity. If the calories come strictly from fiber, which your body cannot digest and it will just pass through you, then the calories don't count.

Ox
09-23-08, 10:00 am
Ox,

How is everything coming along? Ready for the Olympia weekend? what are your predictions? Well I was wondering if you could take a look at the following bulk diet for an individual with LBM of 200 lbs who unfortunately can only lift in the morning.....your input is appreciated....i put every answer you gave me throughout these past couple of months to finally come up with a diet plan (hopefully I get it right)...thanks ahead of time....

Pre workout: Pump/or Storm, Nitro pak
0500 AM workout/EAA stack during
Post workout: 2 Nitro paks

Meal 1: 4 eggs, 1.5 cups oatmeal, 4 uni-liver, pak, omega
Meal 2: 2 scoops Ultra Iso, .5 cup oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-liver, 400 mg vit C, 200IU vit E
Meal 3: 8 oz tilapia, 1.5 cups of rice, .1/2 cup almonds, flex, 4 uni-liver
Meal 4: 1 scoop Ultra Iso, .5 cup oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-liver
Meal 5: 6 oz chicken, 1.5 cups rice, 4 unilivers, 400 mg vit C, 200IU vit E
Meal 6: 1 scoop Ultra Iso, 1.5 oatmeal, 1 tbsp PB, 4 uni-livers

Calories: 3671 Protein: 319 grams, Carbs: 309 Fat: 127g (i tried 1:1:1 P:C:F ratio)

Thanks,
Lunatic

Looks great bro. Perfect.

Ox
09-23-08, 10:01 am
Hi Ox, !

Quick question, Can you have Broccoli when on Keto, if yes at what amount would you suggest ? as i love the stuff

Many Thanks,
Blunos

1 cup of broccoli with your whole food meals is cool.

Ox
09-23-08, 10:03 am
Hey ox, I was told that if I mix protein with non skimmed milk, it will be digested slowly, so I'm taking protein with milk in the morning and during bedtime, and I mix protein with water immediately after workout. any comment?

Why mix it with dairy and get all that crappy fat and sugar when you can mix your protein with water and PB and get all those good monounsaturated fats and virtually no sugar. Milk is obsolete. Or like Arnold said "...milk is for babies"

sanga
09-23-08, 10:09 am
I usually incorporate two servings of metamucil (sugar free) per day during keto for regularity. If the calories come strictly from fiber, which your body cannot digest and it will just pass through you, then the calories don't count.

Thanks Ox.

TheGeneralGB
09-23-08, 10:39 am
Yo evan what's up?
2 quick questions...
1) I usually train at 245...my meal before my workout is 145 it consists of 40 grams protein from chicken...cup of green veggies...and 1 cup oatmeal...is this too close or a good time in relation to when I'm working out?

2) I know animal has omega and I'm going to pick it up but first I wanna use up my old supps...does this EFA plan sound good..I've been doing 1 tablespoon of cod liver oil in the morning along wit 3 grams CLA...wit my 5th meal I do another 3 grams CLA along wit 3 fish oil caps at 1gram each. Am I over doing it with the CLA? Thanks bro

Lunatic001
09-23-08, 11:03 am
Looks great bro. Perfect.

Thanks Ox. Really appreciate it.....

Lunatic

Lunatic001
09-23-08, 11:09 am
Ox,

Forgot to ask, if I add Intra-Aid to the above diet should I adjust the macros for those 10 carbs/protein grams?

Thanks,
Lunatic

Blunos
09-23-08, 4:05 pm
1 cup of broccoli with your whole food meals is cool.

Thanks Ox,

Could i have it with all my whole food meals or just one ?

Many thanks,
Blunos

Ox
09-23-08, 7:00 pm
Yo evan what's up?
2 quick questions...
1) I usually train at 245...my meal before my workout is 145 it consists of 40 grams protein from chicken...cup of green veggies...and 1 cup oatmeal...is this too close or a good time in relation to when I'm working out?

2) I know animal has omega and I'm going to pick it up but first I wanna use up my old supps...does this EFA plan sound good..I've been doing 1 tablespoon of cod liver oil in the morning along wit 3 grams CLA...wit my 5th meal I do another 3 grams CLA along wit 3 fish oil caps at 1gram each. Am I over doing it with the CLA? Thanks bro

1. I think one hour before training is perfect.

2. I don't know that too much CLA is BAD but I just dont think you need more than 3g per day. The main things you need to focus on are EPA and DHA which you should get from about 3g of fish oil daily. Good fish oil comes from a blend of fish oils such as herring, mackarel, salmon, anchovy, cod liver etc. You'll notice that fish supps that are from different fish sources have more EPA and DHA that just cod liver oil. You also need GLA. The easiste way to get that is to take 1300 mg of evening primrose oil twice daily.

Ox
09-23-08, 7:01 pm
Ox,

Forgot to ask, if I add Intra-Aid to the above diet should I adjust the macros for those 10 carbs/protein grams?

Thanks,
Lunatic

Nah just add it in.

Ox
09-23-08, 7:01 pm
Thanks Ox,

Could i have it with all my whole food meals or just one ?

Many thanks,
Blunos

You can do it with all of em.

Lunatic001
09-23-08, 7:04 pm
Nah just add it in.

Thanks Ox!

LWSniper14
09-23-08, 8:27 pm
Evan,

For someone who is trying to bring up their legs, do you recommend splitting up quads and hams?

Thank you,

Greg

Wild Cat
09-24-08, 12:36 am
Hey Ox,

You often hear that slow twitch muscle fibers are endurance based fibers and have little to do with growth in comparison to their counterpart fast twitch fibers, responsible for growth and strength and power attributes. Based on this knowledge wouldn't low rep training 4-6 resps or 6-8 be the best option for increasing ones growth potential.

Although you hear plenty of professional bodybuilders who exclusively use a high rep training protocol. For example using a 12-15 or 15-20 or higher repetition range for growth, and look massive and incredible. Who's right and whose wrong and why? Are slow twitch fibers just as responsible for growth as their fast twitch counter parts? And do high reps only work for the genetically gifted?

I know there's really no right or wrong and there's really no white or black, instead just shades of grey. But what do you recommend or prefer in regards of the best repetition range for growth, and what do you think would work in majority for most of the average folk?

...Thank you in advance

Sincerely, Wild Cat

Blunos
09-24-08, 11:50 am
You can do it with all of em.

Thanks Ox !!!

4LIFE
09-27-08, 5:01 pm
So, I've been looking for whether or not coffee is fine on a keto? I work a lot and it helps.

AFTazz06
09-28-08, 2:54 pm
Ox, so i've been on Keto for 2 weeks now and just weighed myself on saturday morning and i'm down 5lbs. This past week, i've been given compliments from people who dont know i'm on keto or know what it is, and they say i look bigger and want to know what i'm "on", is this a normal pattern while on Keto? cause this seems amazing that i'm getting these results so quickly, i feel my waist and lower back are tighter and see more veins on my forearms during my workouts. my goal is to go down to 195-200lbs, right now i'm at 230lbs.

sanga
09-28-08, 3:15 pm
Just a comment from me, I too have had this, people saying I look like I`ve lost weight but look bigger, I`ve dropped 25lbs and have veins, a couple of people have said I look a lot younger too, very encouraging to say the least, less fat, bigger and younger, perfect.

Sandpig
09-28-08, 10:04 pm
For those of you that have never met Ox, if you get the chance, do it.

He answered all my questions at the expo, and then even more of them between sets today at the ABC event.

Thanks dude, next time I'm in CT, I will look you up!

In Flames
09-29-08, 5:03 pm
Evan what's your typical rep range? How long do you usually rest inbetween sets? Also do you Superset your Arms or do straight sets?

Thx bro!

Thetasteofink69
09-30-08, 11:24 pm
I would finish the protein and then switch to something better. That CAN mess you up. I would do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and if you get up to over an hour, split it up and do the other session pwo. Take nitro during cardio and during weight training sessions.

Okay cool man, thanks

A couple more questions.. I finally started keto on sunday.. I know you're supposed to feel like crap the first few days, but I've felt completely fine.. The only sign I may have of being in ketosis is according to my girlfriend I have "The worst breath she's ever smelled" (No, that's not normal).. Do you think I should consider getting some ketostix? I'm positive i'm eating under 30g of carbs per day, and I think my diet is perfectly fine tuned.. What are you thoughts on that?

Also, I figured out a way I can get cardio in first thing in the mornings.. I thought it would be better for my body to adjust before I started doing any cardio (I start tomorrow).. You don't think waiting could have screwed anything up do you? And I was actually hoping to only take nitro once per day, because I want to make it last awhile (budget is kinda tight).. Is it more important to take it during cardio in the morning, or when I lift later that day? I'm already going to be drinking EAA stack while I do cardio.. One more thing.. I've read a lot of guys drink a protein shake right before morning cardio.. Do I need to do that, and if so, how important is it? Again, money is kinda tight, but I don't want to cut myself short on anything

Thanks for your time bro, I really appreciate it

SizeMatters
10-02-08, 2:35 pm
hey bro, i dont know if youve seen this vid yet, but @ one point u look like you were doign some sort of front raise/side raise combo with the db's or something?
http://musculardevelopment.pl/beta_ver/animal_tr/magazyn_FA.swf

p.s. bro u look bigger and more vascular every time i see you , whats wrong couldent get the cuts on that tee to be even haha?

Ox
10-02-08, 5:35 pm
Evan,

For someone who is trying to bring up their legs, do you recommend splitting up quads and hams?

Thank you,

Greg

Definitely. I feel like then you can give each of them the amount of attention they need. Besides, if you train them on the same day then you pretty much trained half of yur body in one day. It's too much.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:37 pm
Hey Ox,

You often hear that slow twitch muscle fibers are endurance based fibers and have little to do with growth in comparison to their counterpart fast twitch fibers, responsible for growth and strength and power attributes. Based on this knowledge wouldn't low rep training 4-6 resps or 6-8 be the best option for increasing ones growth potential.

Although you hear plenty of professional bodybuilders who exclusively use a high rep training protocol. For example using a 12-15 or 15-20 or higher repetition range for growth, and look massive and incredible. Who's right and whose wrong and why? Are slow twitch fibers just as responsible for growth as their fast twitch counter parts? And do high reps only work for the genetically gifted?

I know there's really no right or wrong and there's really no white or black, instead just shades of grey. But what do you recommend or prefer in regards of the best repetition range for growth, and what do you think would work in majority for most of the average folk?

...Thank you in advance

Sincerely, Wild Cat

I don't know anything really about slow vs fast twitch fibvers but all I can tell you is that no one ever built an impressive physique from 4-6 rep sets. I think that anywhere from 6-16 reps is cool. So long as you hit each end you'll get the best of both worlds.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:37 pm
So, I've been looking for whether or not coffee is fine on a keto? I work a lot and it helps.

Coffee is cool so long as it's black.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:38 pm
Ox, so i've been on Keto for 2 weeks now and just weighed myself on saturday morning and i'm down 5lbs. This past week, i've been given compliments from people who dont know i'm on keto or know what it is, and they say i look bigger and want to know what i'm "on", is this a normal pattern while on Keto? cause this seems amazing that i'm getting these results so quickly, i feel my waist and lower back are tighter and see more veins on my forearms during my workouts. my goal is to go down to 195-200lbs, right now i'm at 230lbs.

Perfectly normal. this happens to a lot of people. Keep going bro.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:39 pm
Just a comment from me, I too have had this, people saying I look like I`ve lost weight but look bigger, I`ve dropped 25lbs and have veins, a couple of people have said I look a lot younger too, very encouraging to say the least, less fat, bigger and younger, perfect.

I always notice how great I feel when doing ketoo. I sleep better, look younger, my joints dont hurt etc.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:40 pm
For those of you that have never met Ox, if you get the chance, do it.

He answered all my questions at the expo, and then even more of them between sets today at the ABC event.

Thanks dude, next time I'm in CT, I will look you up!

What's up buddy?! It was great meeting you. Thanks for stopping by the booth and coming over to the gym on Sunday. You're a cool dude. And if you come to CT let me know! We'll get a workout at Gold's New Haven.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:41 pm
Evan what's your typical rep range? How long do you usually rest inbetween sets? Also do you Superset your Arms or do straight sets?

Thx bro!

I do anywhere from 6-16 reps in a set. I rest as long as I feel is necessary.I do supersets, drops, giants and straight sets etc for all body parts.

Ox
10-02-08, 5:45 pm
Okay cool man, thanks

A couple more questions.. I finally started keto on sunday.. I know you're supposed to feel like crap the first few days, but I've felt completely fine.. The only sign I may have of being in ketosis is according to my girlfriend I have "The worst breath she's ever smelled" (No, that's not normal).. Do you think I should consider getting some ketostix? I'm positive i'm eating under 30g of carbs per day, and I think my diet is perfectly fine tuned.. What are you thoughts on that?

Also, I figured out a way I can get cardio in first thing in the mornings.. I thought it would be better for my body to adjust before I started doing any cardio (I start tomorrow).. You don't think waiting could have screwed anything up do you? And I was actually hoping to only take nitro once per day, because I want to make it last awhile (budget is kinda tight).. Is it more important to take it during cardio in the morning, or when I lift later that day? I'm already going to be drinking EAA stack while I do cardio.. One more thing.. I've read a lot of guys drink a protein shake right before morning cardio.. Do I need to do that, and if so, how important is it? Again, money is kinda tight, but I don't want to cut myself short on anything

Thanks for your time bro, I really appreciate it

A lot of people have bad breath when they do ketosis diets. You're fine with the cardio. I'd take the Nitro during training. Don't drink protein before cardio. Have a cup of coffee.

shortstack
10-03-08, 4:41 am
Hey Evan, Just wanted to say thanks for chatting with me at the expo in Vegas. I've had a really hard time finding a diet that I can stick with but your's is cake bro. I really like it and will probably stay on it as long as I can.

Only thing I wonder about is if you add any fruit to your diet anywhere during the day. I'm mostly adding size right now but wondered from a health stand point if adding some fruit with the shakes would be a good idea.

Anyway, thanks again.

Shortstack

ChandlerXJ
10-03-08, 4:25 pm
YO EV! Long time no talk bro! I'm starting to slowly get back into things, right after my show, I tore my trap where it connects in my neck - it was so weird, it didn't hurt at all until I started exerting myself, and I would get pain so bad I couldn't see - the chiro told me it was the swelling pinching a good amount of nerves... took a month off and I actually filmed an MTV reality show where I traveled across the country and did challenges, it was fucking the best time I've ever had - really opened my eyes up and gave me a good break from this world here...

Anyways, I'm almost 100%, getting back into heavy weights, trying to put some weight on... you going to be in Philly on the 25th? If so I'm really looking forward to hanging out again - if not man, you better be eating hard - you're time is near!

I remember I asked you what you were doing after Nationals last year and you just looked at me kinda confused for a second then said, "Thanksgiving"... that was fucking awesome man - I am still proud of your accomplishment.

Hope to see you in Philly man... and in 09! NYP!!

Aaron590
10-03-08, 5:09 pm
Hey Ox,

I know that you used to be a chubby kid, and I was wondering if when you bulked if that help fill in some of the loose skin that Im sure you had. Would that even work?

Ox
10-03-08, 6:46 pm
Hey Evan, Just wanted to say thanks for chatting with me at the expo in Vegas. I've had a really hard time finding a diet that I can stick with but your's is cake bro. I really like it and will probably stay on it as long as I can.

Only thing I wonder about is if you add any fruit to your diet anywhere during the day. I'm mostly adding size right now but wondered from a health stand point if adding some fruit with the shakes would be a good idea.

Anyway, thanks again.

Shortstack

No problem man. Glad you like the diet. If you're gaining some fruit is fine. Throw a cup of berries in your shakes. Have an apple with peanut butter if you want.

Ox
10-03-08, 6:49 pm
YO EV! Long time no talk bro! I'm starting to slowly get back into things, right after my show, I tore my trap where it connects in my neck - it was so weird, it didn't hurt at all until I started exerting myself, and I would get pain so bad I couldn't see - the chiro told me it was the swelling pinching a good amount of nerves... took a month off and I actually filmed an MTV reality show where I traveled across the country and did challenges, it was fucking the best time I've ever had - really opened my eyes up and gave me a good break from this world here...

Anyways, I'm almost 100%, getting back into heavy weights, trying to put some weight on... you going to be in Philly on the 25th? If so I'm really looking forward to hanging out again - if not man, you better be eating hard - you're time is near!

I remember I asked you what you were doing after Nationals last year and you just looked at me kinda confused for a second then said, "Thanksgiving"... that was fucking awesome man - I am still proud of your accomplishment.

Hope to see you in Philly man... and in 09! NYP!!


Yeah bro where the hell u been? Sorry to hear about your injury but it's good to hear you're almost back. Going across the country sounds like fun. You need a break once in a while. Not sure yet if I'll be in Philly. It would be good to see you man. Damn...that was the first official ABC. I'm looking forward to Thnaksgiving but nowhere near like last year. Food just tastes so much better after starving!

Ox
10-03-08, 6:50 pm
Hey Ox,

I know that you used to be a chubby kid, and I was wondering if when you bulked if that help fill in some of the loose skin that Im sure you had. Would that even work?

After losing a lot of weight my skin wasn't as tight. But once i started putting on more muscle it tightened back up.

NickSP
10-03-08, 7:28 pm
What's goin on Evan? I saw the olympia video today, looking massive. When exactly is NY, it's like mid spring right?

I haven't seen anyone ask this in a while, I know you're maintaining, what's your diet like right now?

Aaron590
10-03-08, 10:10 pm
After losing a lot of weight my skin wasn't as tight. But once i started putting on more muscle it tightened back up.
Ok thats good news, thanks Ox.

4LIFE
10-04-08, 4:15 pm
Coffee is cool so long as it's black.
Hey thanks! Do you know about sugar free gum? I feel like I consantly need something BC I'm so hungry all the time!

TheGeneralGB
10-07-08, 9:33 am
Hey ox what's up?

When you aren't doing keto and your eating carbs, do you count the grams of protein in something like oatmeal to your total protein intake? Thanks a lot bro

Ox
10-07-08, 9:39 am
What's goin on Evan? I saw the olympia video today, looking massive. When exactly is NY, it's like mid spring right?

I haven't seen anyone ask this in a while, I know you're maintaining, what's your diet like right now?

Thanks man. NY is like the first or second week in May. I just started putting more size on and right now I'm 297.5 this morning. My diet is pretty much the same as always I just add in a little more protein and fat.

Ox
10-07-08, 9:41 am
Hey thanks! Do you know about sugar free gum? I feel like I consantly need something BC I'm so hungry all the time!

Sugar free gum is crap. It's loaded with sugar alchohol which is no good for your digestive system. Have one piece a day if you need to. Stay away from things with artificial sweeteners because they can make you hungrier.

Ox
10-07-08, 9:41 am
Hey ox what's up?

When you aren't doing keto and your eating carbs, do you count the grams of protein in something like oatmeal to your total protein intake? Thanks a lot bro

I don't count it because it's not a complete protein.

sanga
10-07-08, 9:49 am
Thanks man. NY is like the first or second week in May. I just started putting more size on and right now I'm 297.5 this morning. My diet is pretty much the same as always I just add in a little more protein and fat.

Any pics mate?

jer
10-07-08, 2:07 pm
Any pics mate?

He is looking large, but not sloppy in the least, he's pretty tight for being 295.

Maybe I'll sneak up on him and take some pix this week. lol



BTW, Ev you guys were putting on a clinic with squats yesterday. Brutal ass to calves, heavy triple drop sets. Very motivational.

Fury317
10-07-08, 3:49 pm
Hey Ox, just wanted to say great article. You guys are definitely the approachable bodybuilders that most are not. And like you said its one of many reasons Animal is MUCH MUCH different than other companies. Reading it got my hyped for the Arnold when I actually get to shake everyone's hand that I look up to and shoot the shit with you guys. Cant wait bro. Take it easy, and keep training hard.

Factory
10-07-08, 4:01 pm
Hey Ox, I've read through just about this entire thread. I'm looking to start a diet similar to yours, the keto diet you outlined in one of the first few posts. I get that your not supposed to have any carbs whatsoever unless its green veggies, my only question is for your meals (not the shake meals) how much of each thing are you actually eating, like salmon, chicken, steak? i'm much smaller then you, 5'10" 184lbs or so and about 12%BF, I've been on a pretty low-fat diet recently and it's not working, the only reason I lost weight is because i cut a ton of calories. I'm looking to get shredded on your keto diet, i just don't know how much i should actually shovel down.

i already eat like 2-3 chicken breasts a night and have a cup of cottage cheese with lunch and dinner, and for lunch im goanna be eating a few burgers minus buns and lettuce, im just wondering how many burgers ? how many pieces of chicken? ball park answers are perfect, and if you don't know really then that's fine too.

thanks for a place where us smaller guys can come talk to a pro.

sanga
10-07-08, 4:19 pm
Why don`t you list your diet with times consumed so that Ox can reply a lot easier mate.

Factory
10-07-08, 4:36 pm
Why don`t you list your diet with times consumed so that Ox can reply a lot easier mate.

thanks- yeah that will prolly be easier for him
(on this kind of keto diet)
breakfast -
6 whole eggs + bacon or steak or ham

shake ( 0 carb 30g protein ) (sometimes i just eat another breakfast)

lunch 1-
1 cup of tuna and about a cup of sliced turkey, 1 cup of cottage cheese
and a small amount of lettuce with cucumbers

PWO Shake similar shake as above and animal pump

lunch 2 same meal as lunch 1, or 2 hamburgers with 1 cup of cottage cheese

dinner - steak or meatloaf or chicken, and peas or stringbeans.

^^^^^^^^ this is what i was thinking of doing, its something i know i can stick to, i don't mind any of these foods, and they are easily accessible for me, i just don't know HOW MUCH of each thing i should eat, if this sounds good, lemme know, if you got anything i should add in or change, lemme know. i appreciate it tons man.

thanks for your time, i know your busy.

Blunos
10-07-08, 5:07 pm
Hey Ox,

How many paks of Omega should i take in a day and at what times ? I take Animal Pak with my breakfast. i am following your keto diet.


Thanks.
Blunos

Ox
10-07-08, 6:34 pm
He is looking large, but not sloppy in the least, he's pretty tight for being 295.

Maybe I'll sneak up on him and take some pix this week. lol



BTW, Ev you guys were putting on a clinic with squats yesterday. Brutal ass to calves, heavy triple drop sets. Very motivational.

Peelin plates on the squats is fucking brutal! It's a whole different level of pain and difficulty. But today my legs are torn apart. From outer to inner thigh they're toasted. Ahhh...it was so worth it.

Ox
10-07-08, 6:35 pm
Hey Ox, just wanted to say great article. You guys are definitely the approachable bodybuilders that most are not. And like you said its one of many reasons Animal is MUCH MUCH different than other companies. Reading it got my hyped for the Arnold when I actually get to shake everyone's hand that I look up to and shoot the shit with you guys. Cant wait bro. Take it easy, and keep training hard.

Thanks man. See you there!

Ox
10-07-08, 6:38 pm
Hey Ox, I've read through just about this entire thread. I'm looking to start a diet similar to yours, the keto diet you outlined in one of the first few posts. I get that your not supposed to have any carbs whatsoever unless its green veggies, my only question is for your meals (not the shake meals) how much of each thing are you actually eating, like salmon, chicken, steak? i'm much smaller then you, 5'10" 184lbs or so and about 12%BF, I've been on a pretty low-fat diet recently and it's not working, the only reason I lost weight is because i cut a ton of calories. I'm looking to get shredded on your keto diet, i just don't know how much i should actually shovel down.

i already eat like 2-3 chicken breasts a night and have a cup of cottage cheese with lunch and dinner, and for lunch im goanna be eating a few burgers minus buns and lettuce, im just wondering how many burgers ? how many pieces of chicken? ball park answers are perfect, and if you don't know really then that's fine too.

thanks for a place where us smaller guys can come talk to a pro.

At 184 pounds you would figure 275g of protein = 1100 calories = 120 grams of fat. So 275 of protein and 120g of fat. Split it up into 6 meals. Check out www.nutritiondata.com for nutrition facts.

Ox
10-07-08, 6:39 pm
Hey Ox,

How many paks of Omega should i take in a day and at what times ? I take Animal Pak with my breakfast. i am following your keto diet.


Thanks.
Blunos

I would shoot for two packs of omega each day. One in the am with breakfast and one with lunch.

jmt92
10-07-08, 10:09 pm
Ox, first off thank you for being such an inspiration and great role model for this sport.As a newly formed powerlifter I still must say you are a great athlete in the sport of lifting, my favorite by far.When you answered my question about arms a few months back it truly made a difference.A few weeks after that time I started plunging into a powerlifting routine, and now as I type you here today I have the dreams of turning pro one day.I quit doing curls for weeks, maybe 10 or so and now after each of my deadlift days I hit them with a few sets to keep my elbows healthy.I've also been hitting my triceps majorly since taking on this sport and my arms are now right below or just at 16 inches at 197 lbs., 5'11.Now many will say pler's shouldn't care about their physical appearence, but I do and I don't feel just because I don't have to be lean for my sport of choice means I should become a fatass.

With that being said, any idea on a good diet for me.I'm thinking/been doing a moderate to high fat,high carb-moderate carb, high protein diet lately.Off days are usually the moderate fat/carb days.I hit the treamill, pool, w/e else for about 15-20 minutes of cardio after each lift(4 days a week).The fat has been stripping away very well since I've started like this 8 wks ago and I can even see the outline of my abs again at just below 200 lbs.It's been working great so i'm going with it but do you have any suggestions?Thank's in advance.

Histo55
10-07-08, 10:41 pm
just wonderin what you like to do to get a good wide stretch on your lats....also, what are your sets and reps for deadliftin??

Lunatic001
10-08-08, 10:50 am
Ox,

Can you explain or tell us how to do your db front raises/upright rows.....I saw you do them in the video will you guys were training at Gold's during the Olympia weekend.....looks like it really hits the front and back delts...

Thanks,
Lunatic

Factory
10-08-08, 11:15 am
Hey Ox, thanks for showing me nutritiondata.com, i just wanted to know, is cottage cheese alright for your keto diet? nutritiondata.com is saying theres 2% carbs in 1 cup.

thanks in advance

Lunatic001
10-08-08, 12:24 pm
Hey Ox, thanks for showing me nutritiondata.com, i just wanted to know, is cottage cheese alright for your keto diet? nutritiondata.com is saying theres 2% carbs in 1 cup.

thanks in advance

Not to steal the thread bro...but he has mentioned that no diary during keto........

Lunatic001

Blunos
10-08-08, 12:33 pm
I would shoot for two packs of omega each day. One in the am with breakfast and one with lunch.

Thanks Ox, you the man..

Blunos
10-08-08, 12:36 pm
Hey Ox,

As you train Hammstings and Quads on different days, what do you do for Quads ? and what do you do for Hammstrings and Calves ?

Thanks.
Blunos

Factory
10-08-08, 3:18 pm
Not to steal the thread bro...but he has mentioned that no diary during keto........

Lunatic001

thanks man, i appreciate it.

Mizzarler
10-08-08, 7:57 pm
Great article Ox, you need to start a journey.....

Ox
10-08-08, 9:03 pm
Ox, first off thank you for being such an inspiration and great role model for this sport.As a newly formed powerlifter I still must say you are a great athlete in the sport of lifting, my favorite by far.When you answered my question about arms a few months back it truly made a difference.A few weeks after that time I started plunging into a powerlifting routine, and now as I type you here today I have the dreams of turning pro one day.I quit doing curls for weeks, maybe 10 or so and now after each of my deadlift days I hit them with a few sets to keep my elbows healthy.I've also been hitting my triceps majorly since taking on this sport and my arms are now right below or just at 16 inches at 197 lbs., 5'11.Now many will say pler's shouldn't care about their physical appearence, but I do and I don't feel just because I don't have to be lean for my sport of choice means I should become a fatass.

With that being said, any idea on a good diet for me.I'm thinking/been doing a moderate to high fat,high carb-moderate carb, high protein diet lately.Off days are usually the moderate fat/carb days.I hit the treamill, pool, w/e else for about 15-20 minutes of cardio after each lift(4 days a week).The fat has been stripping away very well since I've started like this 8 wks ago and I can even see the outline of my abs again at just below 200 lbs.It's been working great so i'm going with it but do you have any suggestions?Thank's in advance.

Congrats on the progress bro I can tell you're pumped. In terms of diet, I'd say just roll with a 1:1:1 calorie ratio and then adjust it from there.

Ox
10-08-08, 9:05 pm
just wonderin what you like to do to get a good wide stretch on your lats....also, what are your sets and reps for deadliftin??

I know it spunds really pussy but I've been usin the assisted pullup and doin chins rather than lat pulldowns. The stretch and the squeeze is really good. I've been doing 4 sets of deads at the eand of my back workout and supersetting them with close grip cable rows. Try that shit! I keep the reps on the deads in the 10-12 range.

Ox
10-08-08, 9:06 pm
Ox,

Can you explain or tell us how to do your db front raises/upright rows.....I saw you do them in the video will you guys were training at Gold's during the Olympia weekend.....looks like it really hits the front and back delts...

Thanks,
Lunatic

I really can't explain it any better than what you saw in the video. A picture is worht a thousand words :) But yeah, it really does hit the whole delt.

Ox
10-08-08, 9:07 pm
Hey Ox, thanks for showing me nutritiondata.com, i just wanted to know, is cottage cheese alright for your keto diet? nutritiondata.com is saying theres 2% carbs in 1 cup.

thanks in advance

Cottgae cheese is good in the offseason and in the preliminary stages of dieting. However, I don't believe you'll ever look your best with dairy in your diet. For optimal results I'd leave it out and use a different protein source.

Elite
10-08-08, 9:16 pm
I really can't explain it any better than what you saw in the video. A picture is worht a thousand words :) But yeah, it really does hit the whole delt.

Funny enough, i just re-watched Evans w/o with Guy Cisternino 'In The Trenches', where Ev does the exact move and explains it. Evan, you can really see the impact from the rear shot.

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1249/204/
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1250/204/

Hope to see you back on 'In The Trenches' in the not too distant future Ox. I think chest/Legs are all thats left for that series.

Factory
10-09-08, 7:55 am
Thanks for all the help, just one more question (for today haha). I started your keto diet 2 days ago, and last night i didn't sleep a wink, (I've had insomnia before, but not for a few years) Is it normal while entering ketosis or while in ketosis?? Should it go away?
If not I'll call up the doc and get some sleeping pills.

Ox
10-09-08, 8:52 am
Thanks for all the help, just one more question (for today haha). I started your keto diet 2 days ago, and last night i didn't sleep a wink, (I've had insomnia before, but not for a few years) Is it normal while entering ketosis or while in ketosis?? Should it go away?
If not I'll call up the doc and get some sleeping pills.

It should go away. Everyone I know who does the keto diet including myself sleep like the dead on this diet! Make sure you are getting your EFAs! This is very important.

Factory
10-09-08, 9:23 am
It should go away. Everyone I know who does the keto diet including myself sleep like the dead on this diet! Make sure you are getting your EFAs! This is very important.

that might be my problem, i'm only supplementing with omega 3, do i need the 6's and 9's?

Lunatic001
10-09-08, 10:48 am
I really can't explain it any better than what you saw in the video. A picture is worht a thousand words :) But yeah, it really does hit the whole delt.

Ox,

Will follow the video, but do you upright row then row at the top or is it a front raise then row at the top?

Thanks,
Lunatic

Blunos
10-09-08, 11:45 am
Hi Ox,

What is your view on Stevia and Splenda when on a Keto diet, what one would you say is best to use ?

Thanks.
Blunos

mikejones1
10-09-08, 11:57 am
ox you going to the nyc abc ?

Ox
10-09-08, 7:18 pm
that might be my problem, i'm only supplementing with omega 3, do i need the 6's and 9's?

You especially need the omega 6s. They are necessary for the production of prostaglandins which have a soothing effect on the brain.

Ox
10-09-08, 7:19 pm
Ox,

Will follow the video, but do you upright row then row at the top or is it a front raise then row at the top?

Thanks,
Lunatic

It's kind of a combo of both a front raise and upright row. Raise the bar in an arc then pull back at the top.

Ox
10-09-08, 7:19 pm
Hi Ox,

What is your view on Stevia and Splenda when on a Keto diet, what one would you say is best to use ?

Thanks.
Blunos

Stevia is good. Splenda is shit.

Ox
10-09-08, 7:20 pm
ox you going to the nyc abc ?

Not sure. I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Lunatic001
10-09-08, 7:20 pm
It's kind of a combo of both a front raise and upright row. Raise the bar in an arc then pull back at the top.

Thanks bro....will do.....really appreciate the help/clarification.....

NickSP
10-09-08, 7:25 pm
Hey, we're probably gonna have an ABC next Saturday, the 18th. You think you can be there? It's at noon like usual

jmt92
10-09-08, 8:32 pm
Stevia is good. Splenda is shit.

I can't even begin to say how much i laughed at this.

ROC1291
10-09-08, 8:47 pm
I can't even begin to say how much i laughed at this.

This was hilarious...
I wish I could afford Stevia man. Stuffs good but hey... Splenda I can buy so much cheaper than 100g of Stevia. One day...

cviewmike851
10-09-08, 10:16 pm
Hey Ox, Ive been hitting the full body hard for almost 2 years right now and im havin some problems with my arms lagging behind all the other parts of my body. my chest has got to the point where it is limited only by what my triceps can lock out and what my forearms can hold... same thing with my legs in deadlift. about 6 months ago i tried bumping in 2 days training arms on seperate ends of the week (monday and friday) focusing on the biceps one day and triceps another day working forearms both days. they didnt pick up anything the only thing that happened was my wrist and elbow started bothering me. i went back to 1 day a week and long story short they just cant keep up with the rest of my body.

arm day looks like this...
( I keep my sets around 12 or as low as 6
Wide grip heavy barbell curls
machine curls (usually keep the sets at or under 10)
skulls
v-bar pushdowns supersetted with rope pushdowns focusing on isolating the triceps
barbell hammer curls
incline dumbell curls
close grip bench press
tricep kickbacks

cviewmike851
10-09-08, 10:23 pm
oh i forgot to add reverse curls wrist curls and reverse wrist curls for the forearms

The Epidemic
10-10-08, 4:56 pm
how would i find out about your rates for guest posing and things like that?

TheGeneralGB
10-11-08, 6:55 pm
What up evan, how's this look for a postworkout shake.....50gs whey isolate .5cup oatmeal 1 scoop waximazie(30g carbs)....then about 2 hours later I eat my next meal....I'm wondering is that to long to wait to eat a solid meal? I've been doing this because usually I'm outt of the gym by 4..so shake 4...meal at 6 and then 9 last meal and by 10 30 I'm sleeping...thanks for the input ox

Histo55
10-11-08, 9:06 pm
hey ox, got another question for ya....i just got done with my first mass gaining phase and i'm lookin to cut some fat off me and was wonderin what you would recommend for a ratio between protein fat and carbs.?? i plan on doin cardio three times a week at the beginning....thanks a bunch, you the man!

Ox
10-12-08, 3:04 pm
Hey, we're probably gonna have an ABC next Saturday, the 18th. You think you can be there? It's at noon like usual

Would love to...Unfortunately, I'm leaving for Poland on the 15th and I don't come back until the 21st.

Ox
10-12-08, 3:05 pm
This was hilarious...
I wish I could afford Stevia man. Stuffs good but hey... Splenda I can buy so much cheaper than 100g of Stevia. One day...

Are you sure? A LITTLE but of stevoa goes a LOOOOONG way. A little bottle of it will last you a good 6 months.

Ox
10-12-08, 3:08 pm
Hey Ox, Ive been hitting the full body hard for almost 2 years right now and im havin some problems with my arms lagging behind all the other parts of my body. my chest has got to the point where it is limited only by what my triceps can lock out and what my forearms can hold... same thing with my legs in deadlift. about 6 months ago i tried bumping in 2 days training arms on seperate ends of the week (monday and friday) focusing on the biceps one day and triceps another day working forearms both days. they didnt pick up anything the only thing that happened was my wrist and elbow started bothering me. i went back to 1 day a week and long story short they just cant keep up with the rest of my body.

arm day looks like this...
( I keep my sets around 12 or as low as 6
Wide grip heavy barbell curls
machine curls (usually keep the sets at or under 10)
skulls
v-bar pushdowns supersetted with rope pushdowns focusing on isolating the triceps
barbell hammer curls
incline dumbell curls
close grip bench press
tricep kickbacks


The fact that you got little injuries by training them more is a clear indication that you were already overtraining them. Start doing three exercises for each and doing more drop sets. You don't need to do a ton of weight but make sure you add drop sets and super sets. Stick to 1/2 hour for each but like I said, lots of drop sets and super sets.

Ox
10-12-08, 3:09 pm
how would i find out about your rates for guest posing and things like that?

You can email me at bigdog250@msn.com

Ox
10-12-08, 3:11 pm
What up evan, how's this look for a postworkout shake.....50gs whey isolate .5cup oatmeal 1 scoop waximazie(30g carbs)....then about 2 hours later I eat my next meal....I'm wondering is that to long to wait to eat a solid meal? I've been doing this because usually I'm outt of the gym by 4..so shake 4...meal at 6 and then 9 last meal and by 10 30 I'm sleeping...thanks for the input ox

I think that you should get a meal in one hour after your PWO nutrition. I like this scenario:

Immediately PWO: 3 scoops Torrent

20 Minutes Later: 50g Whey Isolate, 1 cup Quick oats, 1 tbsp Mac Nut Oil

1 Hour Later: Meal

Ox
10-12-08, 3:12 pm
hey ox, got another question for ya....i just got done with my first mass gaining phase and i'm lookin to cut some fat off me and was wonderin what you would recommend for a ratio between protein fat and carbs.?? i plan on doin cardio three times a week at the beginning....thanks a bunch, you the man!

I would start with a 1:1:1 ratio and once you plateau, I would drop the carbs out completely.

Maiden69
10-12-08, 4:13 pm
I think that you should get a meal in one hour after your PWO nutrition. I like this scenario:

Immediately PWO: 3 scoops Torrent

20 Minutes Later: 50g Whey Isolate, 1 cup Quick oats, 1 tbsp Mac Nut Oil

1 Hour Later: Meal

Hey Evan, thanks for this answer. I'm doing the Big Picture Stack from Universal at BB.com, and I was wondering how soon to eat a meal after the Torrent. I was waiting about 1hr, but I never thought about adding protein between them. I was taking a 30g whey/.5 cup Oats 1 to 1.5 hrs before the workout. I will add that shake between Torrent and the meal too.

Were do you get the Mac oil? I have been to a few places around and found Almond oil, but now Mac.

NickSP
10-12-08, 6:06 pm
Would love to...Unfortunately, I'm leaving for Poland on the 15th and I don't come back until the 21st.

Cool...what's that for, guest posing, some kind of expo?

Ox
10-12-08, 10:38 pm
Hey Evan, thanks for this answer. I'm doing the Big Picture Stack from Universal at BB.com, and I was wondering how soon to eat a meal after the Torrent. I was waiting about 1hr, but I never thought about adding protein between them. I was taking a 30g whey/.5 cup Oats 1 to 1.5 hrs before the workout. I will add that shake between Torrent and the meal too.

Were do you get the Mac oil? I have been to a few places around and found Almond oil, but now Mac.

I recently ordered a gallon of cold pressed, organic mac nut oil from a site called www.naturesapproved.com It cost me just over $80 with shipping. I figured it out and even with shipping, I'm paying less than half than what I was paying at the health food store for an oil that was not even organic. The taste is really great compared to other stuff I've used. And I know $80 seems steep but it's well worth it in the long run as you'll get twice as much for your money and a better product.

Ox
10-12-08, 10:39 pm
Cool...what's that for, guest posing, some kind of expo?

I was invited over to hang out and watch the Polish Cup. Should be a fun time.

cviewmike851
10-12-08, 11:06 pm
thanks ox. are you going to be at the arnold this year?

Maccabee
10-12-08, 11:42 pm
Hey Evan,

I just got some extra virgin olive oil, olive oil, mac nut oil, and flex seed oil.

And I want to pour the oils over my rice and fish etc...

My sister saw me do it and said its not healthy to cook these oils.

I just want to clarify with you. I use a pan to cook my eggs, chicken, meat, fish and a rice cooker to make my rice.

So is it ok to put oil on a frying pan and in a rice cooker? Is that going to do anything?

AFTazz06
10-13-08, 12:12 am
Ox, Keto is going great for me as i'm entering my 4th week on it, i'm down 7lbs only 30 to go! lol. almost there. My question is about training, i wanted to try the chest workout i saw you do on a Muscular Development video, in which you superset flat bench with incline DB flies, then superset a smith machine type incline press with pec deck, finishing off with 2 sets of dips and 2 sets of pushups off a bench. Is there any specific workout routine say such as low reps or high intensity? since technically Keto is a no carb diet used for pre contest? Basically i just want to see if you can take a look at my current routine and see if its good on Keto.

Chest (Tues.)
incline barbell press- 4 x 12-6
Flat DB press- 4 x 12-8
Incline Db flyes- 3 x 12-10
DB pullovers- 3 x 12-10
Cable Crossovers- 4 x 15-12

Delts (Thurs.)
Barbell Military Press- 4 x 12-6
Seated DB lats- 4 x 12-8
Rear Pec Deck- 3 12-10
DB shrugs- 4 x 12-8
Barbell shrugs- 4 x 12-8

Arms (bis and tris) (Fri.)
Barbell Curls- 4 x 12-6
Alternating DB Curls (standing)- 4 x 12-8
Preacher machine curls- 4 x 15-10
Rope pushdowns- 3 x 15-10
Close-grip bench press- 4 x 15-8
Skullcrushers- 4 x 12-8
Pushdowns- 4 x 15-10
Barbell wrist curls SUPERSETTED w/ reverse barbell curls- 4 x 8-10

Back (Sat.)
Wide grip chins- 4 x 10
barbell rows- 4 x 12-6
underhand grip pulldowns- 3x 12-10
deadlifts- 4 x 12-8

Legs (Sun.)
Leg extensions- 4 x 20
Leg press- 4 x 20-12
Hack squats- 4 x 15-10
lunges- 3 x 15-12
stiff-leg deads- 4 x 12-8
Lying leg curls- 4 x 15-10
seated calfs- 4 x 12-10

Maiden69
10-13-08, 10:08 am
I recently ordered a gallon of cold pressed, organic mac nut oil from a site called www.naturesapproved.com It cost me just over $80 with shipping. I figured it out and even with shipping, I'm paying less than half than what I was paying at the health food store for an oil that was not even organic. The taste is really great compared to other stuff I've used. And I know $80 seems steep but it's well worth it in the long run as you'll get twice as much for your money and a better product.

Thanks a lot, I'm waiting on some money this week, I think I will order some there.

Lunatic001
10-13-08, 11:06 am
Ox,

You are the man...love your Chest with Ox segment and I actually tried it today and it kicked my ass!...keep up the good work, love the column and can't wait to see new In the trenches segments with you and House.......just stopping by to say thanks once again!

Lunatic

Young&Hungry
10-13-08, 4:04 pm
Hey brother, I got a question about dieting. I'm a 16 year old powerlifter and have been clean bulking for over two and a half years and I've never dieted before. I do well with high fat and protein, and can handle clean carbs only. I have a state meet in mid March '09 which I'd like to compete in the 165-180 pound class. I'm about 190-195 as of now and carrying more fat than I'm comfortable with so cutting weight would not be a problem. Plus by the time of the meet I'd be well over 200 pounds and I would not be able to hang in the 200-220 class, so whether I want to stay in my weight class or go down like I plan I'll have to diet anyways. So once football season ends I'd like to cut from December - mid February so I don't have to worry about any drastic dehydration weight cutting close to the meet and can just focus on my openers. Keep in mind that time is my offseason - I'll be training 4 days a week, doing my cardio, and throwing shot. No sports going on.

I hear it's a bad idea for powerlifters and other non-bodybuilding athletes to go the keto route because it's supposedly bad for strength and maintaining speed/agility. Can you refute this? If you agree that this isn't the way to go for me, I am a student-athlete so on top of that I don't have a fucking clue how to carb cycle I'm not gonna have the time to crunch numbers every night for my meal prep and have them different on a daily basis.

Would a 1:1:1 ratio like you've talked about and adjusting my macros from there work for a cut? If so, could you give an example of what a 1:1:1 ratio day of eating would look like? Thanks in advance brother.

SQUAT or DIE!
10-13-08, 4:07 pm
Y&H i actually got stronger on keto, put quite a few lbs on my squat (was the only lift i could do due to injuries). so i think its ok to do, but i did almost a crash keto before a meet and suffered because of it, so you have to be careful...

BigTimCoats
10-13-08, 9:40 pm
ur dedication inspires myself to keep myself in line!! well... man thanks for eveything... ill feel bad for asking but i was wondering if u could help me with my in school bulk... since i have two hour block schedule which means two hours straight of class then ten min breaks... i was wondering if u culd help me put together a nice mass building schedule around this that would be easy to eat...
my daily times are as follows
wake up 6:00
3 whole eggs
two packets oatmeal
glass of milk
school starts 7:30
1st class ends 9:30
10 min break
2nd class ends 11:37 then lunch until 12:30
school ends
2:30 go home then off to the gym by 3:30
can u help me fit a solid mass diet arouond this???
any help will be highly appreciated bro!! thanks for everything man!!!

Factory
10-14-08, 8:51 am
keto's working out great, if I keep losing BF% im goanna enter a comp pretty soon.
also i like the split you do, I switched to that and have noticed an improvement in my legs and tri's- not doing em right after another big muscle helps for me at least.

good shit man u got any comps coming up?

Histo55
10-14-08, 8:53 am
hey ox, have you ever designed split workouts here on the forum, or even on the web???? I need to switch my workouts up and your the man to listen to and folllow....thanks a bunch

Ox
10-14-08, 9:27 am
thanks ox. are you going to be at the arnold this year?

I should be. The Arnold is awesome.

Ox
10-14-08, 9:28 am
Hey Evan,

I just got some extra virgin olive oil, olive oil, mac nut oil, and flex seed oil.

And I want to pour the oils over my rice and fish etc...

My sister saw me do it and said its not healthy to cook these oils.

I just want to clarify with you. I use a pan to cook my eggs, chicken, meat, fish and a rice cooker to make my rice.

So is it ok to put oil on a frying pan and in a rice cooker? Is that going to do anything?

The only oil that is ok to heat is the mac nut oil and the regular olive oil. But don't heat them too much. Sautee at max.

Ox
10-14-08, 9:31 am
Ox, Keto is going great for me as i'm entering my 4th week on it, i'm down 7lbs only 30 to go! lol. almost there. My question is about training, i wanted to try the chest workout i saw you do on a Muscular Development video, in which you superset flat bench with incline DB flies, then superset a smith machine type incline press with pec deck, finishing off with 2 sets of dips and 2 sets of pushups off a bench. Is there any specific workout routine say such as low reps or high intensity? since technically Keto is a no carb diet used for pre contest? Basically i just want to see if you can take a look at my current routine and see if its good on Keto.

Chest (Tues.)
incline barbell press- 4 x 12-6
Flat DB press- 4 x 12-8
Incline Db flyes- 3 x 12-10
DB pullovers- 3 x 12-10
Cable Crossovers- 4 x 15-12

Delts (Thurs.)
Barbell Military Press- 4 x 12-6
Seated DB lats- 4 x 12-8
Rear Pec Deck- 3 12-10
DB shrugs- 4 x 12-8
Barbell shrugs- 4 x 12-8

Arms (bis and tris) (Fri.)
Barbell Curls- 4 x 12-6
Alternating DB Curls (standing)- 4 x 12-8
Preacher machine curls- 4 x 15-10
Rope pushdowns- 3 x 15-10
Close-grip bench press- 4 x 15-8
Skullcrushers- 4 x 12-8
Pushdowns- 4 x 15-10
Barbell wrist curls SUPERSETTED w/ reverse barbell curls- 4 x 8-10

Back (Sat.)
Wide grip chins- 4 x 10
barbell rows- 4 x 12-6
underhand grip pulldowns- 3x 12-10
deadlifts- 4 x 12-8

Legs (Sun.)
Leg extensions- 4 x 20
Leg press- 4 x 20-12
Hack squats- 4 x 15-10
lunges- 3 x 15-12
stiff-leg deads- 4 x 12-8
Lying leg curls- 4 x 15-10
seated calfs- 4 x 12-10


It looks like you're a volume guy like me. On a keto diet I would limit your time in the gym to one hour max. If you can do it in a hour then fine. If not, cut sets. Overall, it's a lot of sest you have listed. How long are you typically in the gym?

Ox
10-14-08, 9:31 am
Ox,

You are the man...love your Chest with Ox segment and I actually tried it today and it kicked my ass!...keep up the good work, love the column and can't wait to see new In the trenches segments with you and House.......just stopping by to say thanks once again!

Lunatic

Thanks man!

Ox
10-14-08, 9:34 am
Hey brother, I got a question about dieting. I'm a 16 year old powerlifter and have been clean bulking for over two and a half years and I've never dieted before. I do well with high fat and protein, and can handle clean carbs only. I have a state meet in mid March '09 which I'd like to compete in the 165-180 pound class. I'm about 190-195 as of now and carrying more fat than I'm comfortable with so cutting weight would not be a problem. Plus by the time of the meet I'd be well over 200 pounds and I would not be able to hang in the 200-220 class, so whether I want to stay in my weight class or go down like I plan I'll have to diet anyways. So once football season ends I'd like to cut from December - mid February so I don't have to worry about any drastic dehydration weight cutting close to the meet and can just focus on my openers. Keep in mind that time is my offseason - I'll be training 4 days a week, doing my cardio, and throwing shot. No sports going on.

I hear it's a bad idea for powerlifters and other non-bodybuilding athletes to go the keto route because it's supposedly bad for strength and maintaining speed/agility. Can you refute this? If you agree that this isn't the way to go for me, I am a student-athlete so on top of that I don't have a fucking clue how to carb cycle I'm not gonna have the time to crunch numbers every night for my meal prep and have them different on a daily basis.

Would a 1:1:1 ratio like you've talked about and adjusting my macros from there work for a cut? If so, could you give an example of what a 1:1:1 ratio day of eating would look like? Thanks in advance brother.

I would do the keto diet (I have a guy in my gym who is a powerlifter and he loves his strength on it) but what I ould do is throw in 100g of carbs two nights each week. On Monday night have 100g of carrbs with your last mealm and on thursday night do the same.

Ox
10-14-08, 9:39 am
ur dedication inspires myself to keep myself in line!! well... man thanks for eveything... ill feel bad for asking but i was wondering if u could help me with my in school bulk... since i have two hour block schedule which means two hours straight of class then ten min breaks... i was wondering if u culd help me put together a nice mass building schedule around this that would be easy to eat...
my daily times are as follows
wake up 6:00
3 whole eggs
two packets oatmeal
glass of milk
school starts 7:30
1st class ends 9:30
10 min break
2nd class ends 11:37 then lunch until 12:30
school ends
2:30 go home then off to the gym by 3:30
can u help me fit a solid mass diet arouond this???
any help will be highly appreciated bro!! thanks for everything man!!!

All yopu have to do it eat a whole food meal before you go in to school and bring two shakes and one whole meal with you. The when you get out you can eat all you want.

6:00 am- 6 whole eggs and 3 slices Ezekiel Break, Pak, Omega

9:30 am- 50g Iso Whey, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter, 1 cup quick oats

11:37 am- 8 oz chicken, 1/2 cup raw almonds, potato

2:30- pm- another shake

meal + omega

meal

Ox
10-14-08, 9:40 am
keto's working out great, if I keep losing BF% im goanna enter a comp pretty soon.
also i like the split you do, I switched to that and have noticed an improvement in my legs and tri's- not doing em right after another big muscle helps for me at least.

good shit man u got any comps coming up?

Gald it's working well for you. I'll be doing the NY Pro next May in NY

LittleMan55
10-14-08, 9:52 am
Ox,

Read your article in the Nov. MD and laughed my ass off at you talking about eating 2 classic triples a day. Sad thing is everyone does this at some point and it's always for the same reason "got to get my calories up." I agree with you that if you can't make the burger at home Wendy's is where to get one.

Keep doing your thing bro! Every pic I have seen lately you are continually getting larger, and staying tight. Talk about inspiration... When will your pre-contest diet kick off? I know you will be dieting at Arnold time this year, but I was wondering time frame. And what weight are you planning on competing at?

AFTazz06
10-14-08, 9:54 am
It looks like you're a volume guy like me. On a keto diet I would limit your time in the gym to one hour max. If you can do it in a hour then fine. If not, cut sets. Overall, it's a lot of sest you have listed. How long are you typically in the gym?

Well believe it or not, i'm in there less than an hour sometimes, depends on the traffic in the gym. Sometimes on arm day, i gotta wait for certain things to be available such as the barbells, some Db's. I workout at the university rec center on campus, so in the afternoons which is the time i'm able to workout, it gets crowded with weakling frat boys who believe their bodies end at the waist. But on a good day i'm usually done 45-50mins, i dont like to take many rest breaks inbetween sets, after that i hit cardio on the treadmil for 45mins. so all in all, i'm in there for about 2hrs, i try to get my shit done and then get the hell out.

Factory
10-14-08, 11:14 am
Gald it's working well for you. I'll be doing the NY Pro next May in NY

Good luck man, though I bet you won't need it.

Lunatic001
10-14-08, 11:18 am
Thanks man!

Have fun in Poland bro!

sanga
10-14-08, 4:30 pm
Hey Evan

Hope all is well with you and the family, looking forward to seeing the pics of Poland.

Histo55
10-14-08, 5:55 pm
Ox you are a genius....i did the seated row super setted with deadlifts at the end of my back workout and first off, it was awesome....i thought i was gonna throw up, i was so tired.....prolly the best superset i've ever done....i get tired thinkin bout it....thanks a bunch man

Factory
10-16-08, 6:34 pm
Hey Ox,
I've been on Keto for about 2 weeks now, and I'm just wondering, can I have ANY carbs? i mean like natty pb has a carb in it, so does almonds - can i eat these? i've just been eating meat and cucumbers/lettuce and taking animal omega and a multivitamin, and my Ketostix are DARK purple, like off the chart it looks like to me.
if you say i can't eat it i won't i'd just like to know if 2 carbs a day from this stuff is goanna knock me out of ketosis, cause i don't want that.

Lunatic001
10-16-08, 6:37 pm
Hey Ox,
I've been on Keto for about 2 weeks now, and I'm just wondering, can I have ANY carbs? i mean like natty pb has a carb in it, so does almonds - can i eat these? i've just been eating meat and cucumbers/lettuce and taking animal omega and a multivitamin, and my Ketostix are DARK purple, like off the chart it looks like to me.
if you say i can't eat it i won't i'd just like to know if 2 carbs a day from this stuff is goanna knock me out of ketosis, cause i don't want that.

Check this out bro:
http://forum.animalpak.com/showpost.php?p=109316&postcount=41

Factory
10-16-08, 6:40 pm
Check this out bro:
http://forum.animalpak.com/showpost.php?p=109316&postcount=41

is that post talking about on keto? off-season or regular? i just wanna be sure.

Lunatic001
10-16-08, 6:44 pm
is that post talking about on keto? off-season or regular? i just wanna be sure.

Keto bro, the carbs in almonds and PB are not necessary enough to kick you off ketosis since they contain fiber.......nuts and Natural PB are allowed in keto......the difference the between keto diet and keto bulking is the carbs. You add them to bulk at 1:1:1 calorie ratio of protein, fats and carbs, with your carbs coming from rice, oats, etc......when dieting you just cut them out but the ones he mentions are his fat choices for both types...am I rambling or do you kind of get what I am saying?? But I am sure Ox can give you a better answer this is just my understanding......

Lunatic

Factory
10-16-08, 6:47 pm
Keto bro, the carbs in almonds and PB are not necessary enough to kick you off ketosis since they contain fiber.......nuts and Natural PB are allowed in keto......the difference the between keto diet and keto bulking is the carbs. You add them to bulk at 1:1:1 calorie ratio of protein, fats and carbs, with your carbs coming from rice, oats, etc......when dieting you just cut them out but the ones he mentions are his fat choices for both types...am I rambling or do you kind of get what I am saying??

Lunatic

nah i hear you man, i understand completely. you're always quick to help out... thanks for the heads up

Lunatic001
10-16-08, 6:49 pm
nah i hear you man, i understand completely. you're always quick to help out... thanks for the heads up

No problem, just hope Ox doesn't mind....

fenix237
10-18-08, 12:39 pm
Hi Ox,

first off, I want to tell you that you have blown me away with your passion for the PEOPLE of the sport and your willingness to take the time to help anyone out. I don't know many people of your stature who would answer thousands of e-mails, a lot of them average joes. You truly are a clas act and I'm proud to now be part of it. I'm new to the animal forum. The amount of info available and all the great guys and gals willing to give some hard earned advice is astonishing. I sincerely look forward to giving back.

I'm 37 years old, 5'10" 275lbs. It's safe to say I fall under the endo/meso somatype. I read that you are as well so I really want to hear your advice. I recently had a bodyfat analysis- 30% bodyfat= @192lbs of LBM and 83lbs of fat. My goal is to slash my BF to 12-15% while maintaining as much muscle as possible. I'm not trying to break any kind of records in how long it takes to lose that bodyfat. I understand there no shortcuts to being an ANIMAL! I want to end up in the 220's/230's. I am a powerlifter at heart and really enjoy that style of training. Next year, I want to hit 500 on the bench, and increase my Deads and Squats. I just want to look good, especially cause I live on the beach now. BTW- I'm drug free.

I have been working out for the better part of 10 years on and off. If I had to guess I think I have cumulatively worked out for 7 of those years. I spent a lot of time with my buddies drinking beer and eating bad food at night- the reason I'm 30%. In the last few months, I've benched 405 for 5 reps, deep squatted 495lbs for 5-6 reps. I do not bring this up to try to impress anyone, but more of an indication of my bodytype.

I read the first 25 pages of this thread, and will read all of it. But, because of you, I'm amped up to start ASAP and need to know what you think. I like the idea of 3 shakes and 3 meals a day. I'm confused whether I should go on the ZERO carb phase or just a reduced carb diet. I do feel I'm carb sensitive like you. Can you give me some advice on which diet, cals, ratios for the diet you advise. I love the Animal supplement line. I currently have the Pak (of course), and Cuts. I'm thinking of Pump, Nitro, and Flex. Can you prioritize which one I should take. Unfortunately, my funds are limited so keep that in mind.

Sorry for the long post. I have nobody to ask for solid advice. A trainer at my Gold's says 3800 cals, 60% carbs, and circuit training- Blasphemy!

Ox, you are da' man bro!

fenix237
10-19-08, 4:07 am
I forgot to ask a couple more things regarding the Zero carb diet;

1.) why do you prefer this style of ketosis diet over the one that allows the 2 day carb up on the weekends? Are these diets safe for overweight, somwhat out of shape people? I've been on and off for a few months with training and eating; does you need to be in a good lifting routine to start Keto?

2.) being an endo/meso trying to lose weight; I'm guessing you believe the ZeroCarb diet is what will be most effective for dropping weight. I've considered the 1/1/1 ratio; will I still lose weight (maybe just more slowly?) if I use this? Or is my body going to respond much better with the ZERO diet?

3.) this is probably obvious to a lot of you but.....when trying to figure out what the protein needs are of an individual, do you use the 1.5 grams per pound based on current weight, or the weight that you want to acheive. For example, I'm 275; do I need 412 grams of protein? I feel I'm 50 bs overweight. Should I shoot for needs of a 225lb person (337)?


So sorry for all the questions- psyched up to try something different. I swear once these are answered, I will start right away for a 10 week trial and see what happens...then check back here....fingers crossed!

sanga
10-19-08, 5:07 am
Hello mate

All these questions have been asked previously and all the answers are mainly on this thread.

I am on keto and have dropped 32lb so far, I suggest you start at the beginning of this thread and read all replies, thats what I did when I started the diet, Ox lays it out very well here on his thread.

fenix237
10-19-08, 11:41 am
I'm sorry for the redundant questions; when I posted the above, I was on page 25; I found some answers on page 31. I spent about 10 hours so far on this thread (I take time to stop and soak up ideas and concepts). I'll read all the way through (about 50 more hours haha!) before I post further questions. I understand the importance of details, so want to be positive. The last two questions I need to find answers for are:

1.)If someone has a good background of weightlifting, but is not necessarily in good shape currently; would they be better off with a 1/1/1 ratio, or is going straight to the ZERO still a great option?

2.) My goal is to be a lean powerlifter/weightlifter- can anyone give me a workout routine based on heavy compound movement that will compliment the ZERO diet. I stick mainly to deads, squats, BP, power cleans....etc

3.) I'll post my results/experiences in 10 weeks

Peace- BRP

sanga
10-20-08, 8:48 am
This is Oxs thread so I will wait until Ox replies, if it were me I would go straight into keto until I was happy with my bodyfat % then switch but Ox will reply to you soon enough.

jer
10-20-08, 8:29 pm
This is Oxs thread so I will wait until Ox replies, if it were me I would go straight into keto until I was happy with my bodyfat % then switch but Ox will reply to you soon enough.

Evan is in Poland right now, so It could be a few days.

Just a heads up.

GymTroll
10-20-08, 11:35 pm
Hey Ox,

Great to finally be posting on the board, 'been reading around awhile now, great place full of a lot of good stuff. Hope everything is going well in Poland for yah. Anyway, this post is for anyone who wishes to share their knowledge about the iron world, Ox or otherwise…good advice is always welcome. I've been really torn lately about whether I should bulk or cut, or what. My initial goal was to cut down to around 10% body fat, bulk some, then shred it down to around 7% or so for summer. I usually bulk during the winter months (Boston area, cold weather helps) and then around December I like to start cutting it down. I use to be 26% BF, dropped it down to 19%, 17% in August, and now I’m probably somewhere between 15%-17%.

Just tore my left wrist up good on Thursday, thought I broke it, but luckily didn’t so I’ve been out for about a week plus or minus, stuff is going down the tubes, but it’s time to work out anyway. So as I get going here’s my deal: I want to try the Keto diet, but I also want to put on lean mass (going the Dexter Jackson route), I added almost 20lbs of lean mass in the past year ½. Not new to lifting, going on 7 years now, but still learning a ton from everyone, the pro’s especially. I’m in college now, strapped for cash, so I’m going to attempt whatever consensus comes my way to lean bulk/or cut using the cafeteria food, yeah junk, but got to be resourceful. What are your suggestions? Dirty bulk, lean bulk, cut down then bulk, just cut…use keto don’t? What alterations to my diet do you suggest?

Fat’s I’ve been thinking about utilizing are:
100% natural peanut butter
Taking shots (tblspns) of Extra Virgin Olive Oil Cold Press
½ cup of Almonds
And spread all these around throughout my 6 “meals”. Try to get 25g fat per meal (unless I’m told otherwise).

My schedule / diet until now (yeah…I’m gunna get reamed for this):
6.00am – Cardio 30 mins (treadmill, 6mph) No food, empty stomach.
6.45am – 2 scoops whey iso. 45G protein 6G carbs,
7.40am – Scrambled eggs (they say cooked in Margarine), roughly 6 eggs, ketchup, orange juice, animal pak.
10.00am – 2 scoops whey iso. 45G Protein 6G carbs.
11.45am - Lunch, salad (green leaves only/mixed with spinach leaves sometimes), 4 egg whites, ketchup, water/juice, ½ cup black beans, 2 sticks of celery.
1.00pm – 3.00pm: workout/ animal stak prior to workout. 20-30 mins. Cardio after workout, was on creatine until injury
3.15pm – post workout drink, 66g carbs
4.30pm – dinner, salad (green leaves only/mixed with spinach leaves sometimes), 4 egg whites, ketchup, water/juice, ½ cup black beans, 2 sticks of celery.
7 or 8pm – can of tuna.
9 or 10pm – zma, bed.

Weight: 150lbs. I’d like to hear any thoughts on taking wheatgrass or cherry extract. I’ve got to get the Omegas, I know they’ll help a ton…just got the 88 pak Monday, freaky large can haha. I normally lift 5 days a week heavy if I can, sometimes even when I can’t. My focus is on my arms as they are lagging and work on the V taper, trying to bring out the shoulders. Any detailed advice on what to bring up (other than everything), I’ve posted links to pictures below, almost wished I hadn’t I look horrible after a ton of junk carb eating these past few days (injury depression lol) and retaining a ton of water. Thanks a ton in advance to all!!! Sorry for the long post.

http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matt001zo5.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matt0044kv7.jpg

http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matt0033ka3.jpg

http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matt0022uh0.jpg

The Epidemic
10-22-08, 1:07 am
do u do contest prep?

Ox
10-22-08, 7:27 pm
Ox,

Read your article in the Nov. MD and laughed my ass off at you talking about eating 2 classic triples a day. Sad thing is everyone does this at some point and it's always for the same reason "got to get my calories up." I agree with you that if you can't make the burger at home Wendy's is where to get one.

Keep doing your thing bro! Every pic I have seen lately you are continually getting larger, and staying tight. Talk about inspiration... When will your pre-contest diet kick off? I know you will be dieting at Arnold time this year, but I was wondering time frame. And what weight are you planning on competing at?

Hahaha...Wendy's. Whenever I drive by one I still think of that time in my life. I'll start my pre-contest prep for NY in January. Hopefully I'll come in around 255. Thanks for the words man...much appreciated.

krypto
10-22-08, 7:28 pm
hey Ox, this may be a dumb question but here goes.....im already 3 weeks into KETO and i just received my Animal Omega. my question is does this replace my EFA's and just take the Omega, or do i take my fish oils, flax etc. but also add Omega? thanks bro.

Ox
10-22-08, 7:29 pm
Ox you are a genius....i did the seated row super setted with deadlifts at the end of my back workout and first off, it was awesome....i thought i was gonna throw up, i was so tired.....prolly the best superset i've ever done....i get tired thinkin bout it....thanks a bunch man

That shit works good but it's rough. It makes me nauteous thinking about it.

Ox
10-22-08, 7:36 pm
Hi Ox,

first off, I want to tell you that you have blown me away with your passion for the PEOPLE of the sport and your willingness to take the time to help anyone out. I don't know many people of your stature who would answer thousands of e-mails, a lot of them average joes. You truly are a clas act and I'm proud to now be part of it. I'm new to the animal forum. The amount of info available and all the great guys and gals willing to give some hard earned advice is astonishing. I sincerely look forward to giving back.

I'm 37 years old, 5'10" 275lbs. It's safe to say I fall under the endo/meso somatype. I read that you are as well so I really want to hear your advice. I recently had a bodyfat analysis- 30% bodyfat= @192lbs of LBM and 83lbs of fat. My goal is to slash my BF to 12-15% while maintaining as much muscle as possible. I'm not trying to break any kind of records in how long it takes to lose that bodyfat. I understand there no shortcuts to being an ANIMAL! I want to end up in the 220's/230's. I am a powerlifter at heart and really enjoy that style of training. Next year, I want to hit 500 on the bench, and increase my Deads and Squats. I just want to look good, especially cause I live on the beach now. BTW- I'm drug free.

I have been working out for the better part of 10 years on and off. If I had to guess I think I have cumulatively worked out for 7 of those years. I spent a lot of time with my buddies drinking beer and eating bad food at night- the reason I'm 30%. In the last few months, I've benched 405 for 5 reps, deep squatted 495lbs for 5-6 reps. I do not bring this up to try to impress anyone, but more of an indication of my bodytype.

I read the first 25 pages of this thread, and will read all of it. But, because of you, I'm amped up to start ASAP and need to know what you think. I like the idea of 3 shakes and 3 meals a day. I'm confused whether I should go on the ZERO carb phase or just a reduced carb diet. I do feel I'm carb sensitive like you. Can you give me some advice on which diet, cals, ratios for the diet you advise. I love the Animal supplement line. I currently have the Pak (of course), and Cuts. I'm thinking of Pump, Nitro, and Flex. Can you prioritize which one I should take. Unfortunately, my funds are limited so keep that in mind.

Sorry for the long post. I have nobody to ask for solid advice. A trainer at my Gold's says 3800 cals, 60% carbs, and circuit training- Blasphemy!

Ox, you are da' man bro!

Great post man. Congrats on your decision to make a positive change. The best advice I could give you would be to start with a 1:1:1 right now and still have one meal each week where you eat whatever you want. I would shoot for 1000 calories from each macronutrient right now and do this along with 30-45 minutes of cardio each day after training or before breakfast then and adjust things from there. As for supps, Animal Pak is obviously the foundation but if I had to pick one to add on top of that it would have to be Omega. Keep me updated and we'll adjust things. Good luck man.