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Ox
06-20-07, 12:31 am
This thread has been created in honor of the sport of bodybuilding and everything that goes along with it. I'm here to talk about training, nutrition, the bodybuilding lifestlye and anything and everything in between. We all have our own reasons for sacrificing our time and energy but, ultimately, we're all here because we believe in something. We all have the undying belief that there is some sort of satisfaction to be gained from all the sweat and the pain and the sacrifice. Something that can't be bought for any price or taken away at any cost. We are all bound by this common belief. I'm honored to be amongst all of you. It is my most sincere aspiration that I can share with you what I've learned and that it may be of some value to you. I look forward to talking to you guys. Peace.

Sir J-Werk
06-20-07, 12:37 am
Brother, this is very noble indeed of you. We will benefit from this. Thank you.

Stay Strong, stay Focused, stay Animal!
Respect.

eblnyc
06-20-07, 12:38 am
nice! iam looking forward to it!

Bam Bam
06-20-07, 12:38 am
Im truly honored to be posting in the same board as you. You have achieved such great success at a young that you are a true inspiration to me. I am looking forward to reading your knowlegde about the sport and this lifestyle we love so much.

brandonA
06-20-07, 1:03 am
Thank you for your time and sharing your hard earned knowledge....Can you share some of your diet tips?....thanks bro...

-B

Maccabee
06-20-07, 1:14 am
This is awesome, and I am going to start taking advantage now. I began applying supplements to my trainings beginning of April. My workouts are crazier now. I have gained strength and mass as well. I know for a fact 90% of the ppl here no the answer to this qeustion, and I even feel stupid asking it but I got to know. Why under the directions of Nitro does it say we have to use Grape Juice? Can we take it with water or any other juice?

Young&Hungry
06-20-07, 1:15 am
Thank you for your time and sharing your hard earned knowledge....Can you share some of your diet tips?....thanks bro...

-B

x2, that would be awesome to hear.

Hikeon3
06-20-07, 1:47 am
Thank you for your time and sharing your hard earned knowledge....Can you share some of your diet tips?....thanks bro...

-B

x3. I've read someplace that you were formerly a fat kid. I'm from the same boat. Along with diet info, I would also like to know if there was any particular way you managed to tighten up your excess skin from being a fat kid. I'm having a hell of a time hardening the midsection due to the stretching that occurred as a child.

Thanks Evan. You're a lifesaver.

stumblin54
06-20-07, 4:31 am
Ox it's an honor to be reading your articles and critiques bro, thanks.

Stumblin

Big Wides
06-20-07, 8:32 am
ox, thatnks for taking the time out to help us here, its much appreciated

Arbalest
06-20-07, 9:36 am
OX is the man!

If you're gonna be answering questions, i'm gonna have a ton of them.

ghost
06-20-07, 9:41 am
This thread has been created in honor of the sport of bodybuilding and everything that goes along with it. I'm here to talk about training, nutrition, the bodybuilding lifestlye and anything and everything in between. We all have our own reasons for sacrificing our time and energy but, ultimately, we're all here because we believe in something. We all have the undying belief that there is some sort of satisfaction to be gained from all the sweat and the pain and the sacrifice. Something that can't be bought for any price or taken away at any cost. We are all bound by this common belief. I'm honored to be amongst all of you. It is my most sincere aspiration that I can share with you what I've learned and that it may be of some value to you. I look forward to talking to you guys. Peace.

This right here........is the prime example of why i love this company. so many of our Pro's so very willing to answer questions, critique diets and work outs...


you sure cant get that for free anywhere else...just gotta remember to pay your dues.


Strength and Honor brothers....

Strength and Honor

sully
06-20-07, 9:51 am
thanks for creating this thread Ox. Loog frward to the great advice i know u will give us.

billmd1334
06-20-07, 9:53 am
thank you Ox for taking the time to help out myself and fellow brothers. This is why Animal is the way to be.

G Diesel
06-20-07, 9:54 am
Looking forward to this one Ox. This dude is meticulous with his nutrition and has a lot of unique theories and strategic approaches to his use of food and supps. Definitely looking to pick up some priceless knowledge bro. Peace, G

naturalguy
06-20-07, 10:24 am
Ox, this will be a great ride and I will look forward to following this thread.

Thanks for your contribution.

I think it would help if you could run down your basic training philosophies and techniques.

TufffGuY
06-20-07, 10:36 am
lookin forward to some of your post.

violator
06-20-07, 10:55 am
Kick ass Ox!!

gnoll5
06-20-07, 11:26 am
awesome to have you doing this Ox. i look forward to learning from you and hopefully contributing something to you as well.

Ox
06-20-07, 11:48 am
This is awesome, and I am going to start taking advantage now. I began applying supplements to my trainings beginning of April. My workouts are crazier now. I have gained strength and mass as well. I know for a fact 90% of the ppl here no the answer to this qeustion, and I even feel stupid asking it but I got to know. Why under the directions of Nitro does it say we have to use Grape Juice? Can we take it with water or any other juice?

I take mine (I use 3 packets PWO) with 3 scoops of torrent. The idea is to take the aminos with a glycemic carbohydrate so that you spike your insulin. Once your insulin is spiked (since insulin is a storage hormane and very anabolic) the aminos get shuttled or driven into the muscle cells where they are needed. It's very effective especially since the aminos in Nitro don't get cannibalized by the liver and enter the bloodstream in no time. So to answer your question, do not use water. While grape juice is ok, you could use other juice or gatorade. Torrent works excellent because of the waxy maize starch pretty much bypasses the stomach (because of it's high molecular weight)and hits you almost instantly. Plus there's glucose in the formulation and you can;t get more glycemic than glucose. More glycemic = better insulin spike = aminos and glycogen get to the muscles more efficiently = better recuperation + anabolism. Just make sure nyou don; take it with a proetin shake because that will screw up it's ability to bypass the liver etc. Wait about a half hour or 45 min to hit your protein shake. Oh I almost forgot, I hit a dose of OKG along with my PWO supps. Ornithine Ketoglutarate is an amino that optimizes your body's ability to handle glucose. I don't know of any company that still produces it besides Universal. Ahhh. The hardcore basics that work. Tried and true. No bullshit.

Maccabee
06-20-07, 11:55 am
Thank you very much Ox that answered my qeustion perfectly. Another qeustion, do you recommend any books on dieting that would help out guys like me who dont know much about this type of stuff yet?

Ox
06-20-07, 11:58 am
x3. I've read someplace that you were formerly a fat kid. I'm from the same boat. Along with diet info, I would also like to know if there was any particular way you managed to tighten up your excess skin from being a fat kid. I'm having a hell of a time hardening the midsection due to the stretching that occurred as a child.

Thanks Evan. You're a lifesaver.

Diet tips eh? Yup it;s true, I used to be very overweight. I was just over 220lbs when I was 12 years old. I lost the weight but pof course I did it the wrong way. I ran five miles a day and starved myself. Yeah I lost 70 lbs in one year but was just skinny and still not that lean. I avoided all things with fat and ate a ton of carbs. Fat makes you fat right? Wrong. It's funny because now when I diet for a show I diet on high protein AND high FAT. Yup, lots of good fats and NO carbs. Zero. The thing is true in many cases is that individuals who tend to be naturally heavy seem to produce a lot of insulin. While insulin is a very anabolic hormone, too much of it will make you fat. So, the key for me, and this works well for so many people, is to keep that insulin dormant. The only way to accomplish this is to avoid carbs. Eat proteins and fats and green veggies. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. There are only essential aminos and essential fatty acids. Those are what your body wants and needs. In the offseason I consume carbs simply for the insulin spike and the extra calories, not because I need them for energy anything like that. I'm actually much more energetic when eating no carbs but the correct types and amounts of fats. My strength is tremendous as well with the fats and I don't lose muscle mass when dieting. As for your skin tightening up, that will come with time. The longer you stay lean, your body will tighten itself up. Consuming essential fats will help with your skins elasticity as well.

Ox
06-20-07, 12:02 pm
Thank you very much Ox that answered my qeustion perfectly. Another qeustion, do you recommend any books on dieting that would help out guys like me who dont know much about this type of stuff yet?

Chris aceto's book, everything you need to know about fat loss, isn't bad. It's a little different from the approach Dave Palumbo and I use for dieting as Chris believes in carb intake but it can point you in the right direction and get you started.

Extreme
06-20-07, 12:14 pm
Damn Ox, this is awseome! Us asking questions and you sharing your knowledge with us on anything and everything bodybuilding, a true gentleman in my book. I respect you for sharing that knowledge freely. I don't have any questions, at the moment, but will definitely soak up as much of your advice as I can with the questions and answers that are given. THankx again for your contribution.

Ox
06-20-07, 12:39 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.

brandonA
06-20-07, 12:43 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.

That's a great mindset bro, thank you so much for your time.....Can you talk alittle about your favorite sources of fats?

-B

Spikes079
06-20-07, 12:46 pm
Hey Ox can you let me know how to preform a full body pump just as if you we're going on stage to compete?

TufffGuY
06-20-07, 12:49 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.

Now you see, thats the kind of minset every pro bodybuilder needs, to help out other people, I think if everyone was like you, G, Vinny, House, Machine, Ant, and all the other guys, bodybuiling would grow tremendoiusly. Props to you Ox, for taking time to give back to the smaller guys lol.

bharatoza
06-20-07, 2:42 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.


Thank you for being humble and willing to share your knowledge/experience with us.

Hikeon3
06-20-07, 3:23 pm
Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

I appreciate all your assistance so far and look forward to reading so much more of your knowledge in this great sport.

sully
06-20-07, 3:35 pm
Ox, i never heard u were an overweight kid, but its funny wen u gave ur backround with weight loss. Not only was i the same weight as u, but i lost it all the same way u did(the wrong way). I lost 50 lbs in 3 months and went from a tree trunk to a twig. I was pisssed off too because i ended up having to gain it all back for football when i became a starter. But now my knowledge of dieting is getting better. Once again thanks for being here to answer our questions.

bigmack712004
06-20-07, 3:49 pm
Yo Ox,

I was curious what a good stack for cutting in your mind is. Bare in mind I am a college student with a not a huge overflow of cash for supps. I think I am going with the baseline Pak, Cuts, Nitro, Dieters Protein. Anything I could add to this for a good cut? Also as stated above a sample diet day would be useful for me too since the carbs like to kick my ass also. I was a fat kid and still kinda am but I am working on it. Went from 280 lbs. with about 175 -180 lbs lean mass 2 yrs ago to 240 lbs. with 200 lbs. lean mass presently. At only 5'10" 280 lbs. made me feel like hell and look horrible too.

justinbrown
06-20-07, 4:11 pm
Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

I appreciate all your assistance so far and look forward to reading so much more of your knowledge in this great sport.

i have dieted using a ketogenic diet (protien/fat only)

staples for ME were:

eggs/eggwhites
olive oil/fish oil/flax oil/etc.
LEAN LEAN LEAN beef
chicken breast

thats all i really ate for 2 months! hahaha....saw great results though...hope i helped a bit!

ghost
06-20-07, 4:14 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.

This.............this RIGHT HERE is what makes this company and its Pro's SO AMAZING. they are willing to take time out of their busy schedule and times to answer questions like this, FREE....these guys are the TRUE ringers of the bell for this life.

Hikeon3
06-20-07, 4:23 pm
This.............this RIGHT HERE is what makes this company and its Pro's SO AMAZING. they are willing to take time out of their busy schedule and times to answer questions like this, FREE....these guys are the TRUE ringers of the bell for this life.

Well said RC. Never heard of a more dedicated crew than these guys. And to share that dedication with the rest of us is phenomenal.

Toni69
06-20-07, 4:50 pm
Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

I appreciate all your assistance so far and look forward to reading so much more of your knowledge in this great sport.

I was just wondering this myself...approx how much fat do you eat per day?....if you dont mind us asking. I realize I weigh loads less than you..I was just curious.

With me, my body burns carbs pretty fast. When Vinny was getting me ready for the Atlantic States, he was suprised to see how fast I burned through carbs..at least we believe my upper body was doing most of the burning since I shred way faster up top. V would try to slow down my metabolism by loading me up with carbs so that my legs would have a chance to play catch up to my upper body. He wanted me to be symmetrical since my legs would not shred as my upper body did. Legs are a mystery for me and this is why I am taking 4 weeks to just train legs.

Ok...off the beaten path here, I tend to babble, sorry! So, how much fat do you eat per day? Inquiring minds wanna know! ;)

Ox
06-20-07, 6:35 pm
[QUOTE=Hikeon3;109185]Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

Here's what my diet looks like pre-contest:

Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Meal 2: 1.5 scoops Universal Egg Protein, 1.5 Scoops Universal Specialized Protein for gaining lean Mass, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: same as meal 2

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oli

Meal 6: same as meals 2+4

Ox
06-20-07, 6:38 pm
This diet is a foundation. I use this diet year-round. The only thing that changes is that in the offseason, I add 1/2 cup of oatmeal to each shake and add 40-50g of carbs to the whole food meals. For carbs it can be oats, white rice, sweet potato. Whatever appeals to me aside from bread or sugars. I also add 3 scoops of Torrent PWO in the offseason.

Ox
06-20-07, 6:39 pm
[QUOTE=Toni69;109254]I was just wondering this myself...approx how much fat do you eat per day?....if you dont mind us asking. I realize I weigh loads less than you..I was just curious.

Typically it's about 130-150g / day.

naturalguy
06-20-07, 6:45 pm
[QUOTE=Hikeon3;109185]Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

Here's what my diet looks like pre-contest:

Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)




Are those the Omega 3 eggs?

Ox
06-20-07, 6:46 pm
That's a great mindset bro, thank you so much for your time.....Can you talk alittle about your favorite sources of fats?

-B

My favorite fat sources include:

Fish Oil (pharmaceutical grade)
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (Italian Olive Oil Only :)
Unrefined Macadamia Nut Oil
Raw Almonds and other nuts
Organic nut butters (peanut, almond, macadamia)
Whole Eggs (from hens fed a vegetarian diet)
Fatty Fish such as salmon or swordfish
Flax seed oil (in moderation)
Evening Primrose Oil

It's important to balance Omega 3s with Omega 6s. Omega 3s reduce inflamation while Omega 6s promote it. While you would think that an anti-inflamatory effect would be beneficial, keep in mind that muscle growth is, by nature, an inflamatory process and too many anti-inflamatories (whether from diet or drugs) can hinder the muscle building process. Balance is key.

Ox
06-20-07, 6:48 pm
[QUOTE=Ox;109307]


Are those the Omega 3 eggs?

Those are them. The hens are fed a diet with flax seeds rather than corn and as a result the yolks have a much healthier fat profile.

brandonA
06-20-07, 6:51 pm
My favorite fat sources include:

Fish Oil (pharmaceutical grade)
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (Italian Olive Oil Only :)
Unrefined Macadamia Nut Oil
Raw Almonds and other nuts
Organic nut butters (peanut, almond, macadamia)
Whole Eggs (from hens fed a vegetarian diet)
Fatty Fish such as salmon or swordfish
Flax seed oil (in moderation)
Evening Primrose Oil

It's important to balance Omega 3s with Omega 6s. Omega 3s reduce inflamation while Omega 6s promote it. While you would think that an anti-inflamatory effect would be beneficial, keep in mind that muscle growth is, by nature, an inflamatory process and too many anti-inflamatories (whether from diet or drugs) can hinder the muscle building process. Balance is key.

Right on...Thanks for your time...My diet has flattened out a bit, so I'm thinking of giving your no carb diet a spin..I was thinking and I can not remember noticing a change from high carb days and no carbs days...Reading Toni's log, I figure I should feel something, but I cant recall...Thanks for your help...

-B

Ox
06-20-07, 7:22 pm
Right on...Thanks for your time...My diet has flattened out a bit, so I'm thinking of giving your no carb diet a spin..I was thinking and I can not remember noticing a change from high carb days and no carbs days...Reading Toni's log, I figure I should feel something, but I cant recall...Thanks for your help...

-B

Keep in mind that the first few days of no carb you will feel kinda crappy as your body in depleting it's glycogen stores and has not switched to running on ketones yet. Once it does, you'll feel like a million bucks. But make sure you are strict becuase eating the slightest bit of carbs will confuse your body as to whether it should run on glycogen or fats and this will make you feel like shit. 100% or forget it. Usually when people say the low or no carb approach does not work for them it's because they weren't strict enough with it.

Ox
06-20-07, 7:23 pm
Hey Ox can you let me know how to preform a full body pump just as if you we're going on stage to compete?

Before going on stage all I do are push ups. That's all you need. No one ever pumps their legs.

Ox
06-20-07, 7:27 pm
Yo Ox,

I was curious what a good stack for cutting in your mind is. Bare in mind I am a college student with a not a huge overflow of cash for supps. I think I am going with the baseline Pak, Cuts, Nitro, Dieters Protein. Anything I could add to this for a good cut? Also as stated above a sample diet day would be useful for me too since the carbs like to kick my ass also. I was a fat kid and still kinda am but I am working on it. Went from 280 lbs. with about 175 -180 lbs lean mass 2 yrs ago to 240 lbs. with 200 lbs. lean mass presently. At only 5'10" 280 lbs. made me feel like hell and look horrible too.

It looks like you pretty much have the bases covered supplement wise. The only thing I would add is fish oil. Because you said your body doesn't respond well to carbs you probably stand to benefit from fish oil's ability to sharpen insulin sensitivity. The better your body is responding to it's insulin, the less it will produce. This is key. It may sound trivial but in all honesty, aside from a multi this is the most important supplement you'll take.

brandonA
06-20-07, 7:39 pm
Keep in mind that the first few days of no carb you will feel kinda crappy as your body in depleting it's glycogen stores and has not switched to running on ketones yet. Once it does, you'll feel like a million bucks. But make sure you are strict becuase eating the slightest bit of carbs will confuse your body as to whether it should run on glycogen or fats and this will make you feel like shit. 100% or forget it. Usually when people say the low or no carb approach does not work for them it's because they weren't strict enough with it.


would that include the carbs in Torrent or are they cool cause they bipass the stomache? cause I love what Torrent has to offer to me, I am not cutting for a contest, just cutting down the ol' spare tire....Thanks bro

-B

Rhetoric
06-20-07, 7:48 pm
I'm on this bandwagon from here on out. Can't wait to hear what you have for us Ox. You are a true inspiration. I look forward to your entries with great anticipation...

Ox
06-20-07, 9:22 pm
would that include the carbs in Torrent or are they cool cause they bipass the stomache? cause I love what Torrent has to offer to me, I am not cutting for a contest, just cutting down the ol' spare tire....Thanks bro

-B

Definitely no torrent when dieting. No carbs period. But if you are keeping carbs to say, 150g or 100g per day then I suppose you could still use it.

brandonA
06-20-07, 9:51 pm
Definitely no torrent when dieting. No carbs period. But if you are keeping carbs to say, 150g or 100g per day then I suppose you could still use it.

Hum...decisions, decisions, decisions....I will see how many I am currently taking in and see what I can do....Thanks for the great info...

-B

Hikeon3
06-20-07, 10:00 pm
Definitely no torrent when dieting. No carbs period. But if you are keeping carbs to say, 150g or 100g per day then I suppose you could still use it.

What if your whey protein has 3g of carbs per scoop? No good? Or only sources of carbs that are consumed for their carbohydrate content explicitly?

Example: the 6g of carbs that naturally occur in peanut butter. [OK]

VS.

the 22g of carbs in a 1/4 cup of steel cut oats. [NOT OK]

Oh for anyone who is interested, check the macros I calculated from fitday. Truly a beast's cutting diet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Hikeon3/OxFood.jpg

Ox
06-20-07, 10:20 pm
What if your whey protein has 3g of carbs per scoop? No good? Or only sources of carbs that are consumed for their carbohydrate content explicitly?

Example: the 6g of carbs that naturally occur in peanut butter. [OK]

VS.

the 22g of carbs in a 1/4 cup of steel cut oats. [NOT OK]

Oh for anyone who is interested, check the macros I calculated from fitday. Truly a beast's cutting diet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Hikeon3/OxFood.jpg

Good question. No starchy carbs. The carbs in peanut butter and nuts and green veggies are ok. The carbs in the protein powder ar ok as well so long as they are not added carbs such as maltodextrin, sugar etc. I like the macro breakdown that's cool shit.

ldskenpo
06-20-07, 10:25 pm
in an earlier post you described what i assume is a keto type diet, could this be attempted by someone with high triglycride count?i recently had my blood levels checked, and everything came back within tolerance except for a trygliceride count of 513.I am not grossly overweight, consider myself in fairly decent condition. thanks for your time and answers.
Robert

Giant Killer
06-20-07, 11:28 pm
Ox,
Do you feel that you have worked on any certain things, breakthroughs, or bodyparts, that will make you an even bigger threat in your oncoming contests?

Maccabee
06-20-07, 11:40 pm
This is a qeustion that I am very curious about, something that has been on my mind for a while. This lifestyle requires that we take in loads of protein. Now as fasr as I know it goes into our liver and kidneys and affects them. I know drinking a lot of water is important when taking in a lot of protein, but is water really enough to keep our kidneys and liver healthy. Would it be wise to do a cleanse. Liver cleanse and kidney cleanse. I have been doing research on them, and I have no idea what I should do. Do you do cleanses?

Brutus_515
06-20-07, 11:51 pm
I want to thank everybody for writing and expressing their anticipation. I feel the same way. I've been fortunate enough to make some great progress in the sport and in my personal life over the past few years. In my eyes, my personal achievments and the what I've learned are in vain unless they can be shared with those who have the same desire to learn and progress as myself. We're all in it together. I want all of you to feel free to hit me up anytime with ANYTHING. Don't ever think a question is too small or that it is insignificant. If you don't know the answer to something, chances are someone else is wondering the same thing. And I'm not sayin I have all the answers because I don't. Just know that I'll always try my hardest to give you guys an honest, no bullshit response.


That is point blank right there......

Knowledge is not power........the application of that knowledge is power....BUT being able to pass on that knowledge is ABSOLUTE power....

cant wait OX your gunna have your hands full in this thread hahah


LATER

Ox
06-21-07, 12:04 am
in an earlier post you described what i assume is a keto type diet, could this be attempted by someone with high triglycride count?i recently had my blood levels checked, and everything came back within tolerance except for a trygliceride count of 513.I am not grossly overweight, consider myself in fairly decent condition. thanks for your time and answers.
Robert

I will be perfectly honest with you I'm not SURE. However, I will say that the type of diet I describe is very heart healthy considering the abundance of essential fats. I am not 100% positive but I think that overconsumption of carbohydrates, refined ones namely, will make for a poor triglyceride profile. I know that high frictose corn syrup wreaks havoc. Perhaps a low carb diet would be good. keep in mind, this is NOT the Atkins diet. Dave Palumbo ( the man who tought me to diet this way) does not condone the overcomsumption of saturated animal fat. I know people who have done the Atkins diet and when they tell me the shot they were eating I'm shocked. If your triglycerides are in bad shape now then what do you have to lose by making a change?

Ox
06-21-07, 12:06 am
Ox,
Do you feel that you have worked on any certain things, breakthroughs, or bodyparts, that will make you an even bigger threat in your oncoming contests?

I've been killing my thighs and my chest. I've seen dramatic improvments in my legs and seen a big change in my upper chest. i went to put on a pair of cargos the other day to do yard work (these pants were baggy as shit on me right after the Nationals; so baggy I felt stupid wearing them) and they were skin tight. I haven't experinced that in a while. Must be growing.

Ox
06-21-07, 12:11 am
This is a qeustion that I am very curious about, something that has been on my mind for a while. This lifestyle requires that we take in loads of protein. Now as fasr as I know it goes into our liver and kidneys and affects them. I know drinking a lot of water is important when taking in a lot of protein, but is water really enough to keep our kidneys and liver healthy. Would it be wise to do a cleanse. Liver cleanse and kidney cleanse. I have been doing research on them, and I have no idea what I should do. Do you do cleanses?

I strongly believe in cleanses. It is absoultely essential that we take care of our organs . If any one organ be it the colon, the kidneys, the liver, the skin etc is not up to par, we simply cannot be at our best. When all things are working properly, we metabolize food better, we feel more energetic, we look better etc etc the list goes on. If your liver is not functioning at 100%, you cannot expect to burn fat optimally. If your kidneys are not working 100% you will always look bloated. Just go to your local health food store and see what types of products they have for liver and kidney detox. Usually it is a 2-4 week herbal program and the shit def. works.

ldskenpo
06-21-07, 12:21 am
since i found about my triglycerides, I have come off the "bulk" diet. For a while I have been very mindful of high fructose corn syrup ( i even noticed feeling better once i cut down on products with it included)
If you dont mind, let me run this by you?

i am 6'1'' 255-260, consistently score 270+ on apft ( pushups, situps, 2 mile run) I got a belly on me but most around me dont describe me as fat. I feel better at heavier weights, than back when i was only 220. i try to eat every 2 hours during the day ( take sandwiches to work and eat 1 at a time) i try to get 300g protein a day, I dont really eat alot of cooked veggies, prefer fresh. I was raised on a farm as a kid- so am basically a meat and potatoes type of eater. So, mainly i would keep same basic schedule and add more protein in place of carbs?
I am a beginner to watching my diet, thanks for any input
Robert

Kiwi129
06-21-07, 12:36 am
Hey Evan,

This is great of you to be doing this for us and we REALLY appreciate it.

Here's my spiel. I'm in a fuckin bind man. I've gone back on a bulking diet this summer before I go off to school. In the last year and 8 or 9 months I've gone from 140 lbs. to 175-178 lbs., while staying lean (around 10% BF). I've got Torrent in my mix now and I don't like the stomach discomfort it gives me... I thought it wasn't supposed to do that? I have two totally solid food meals before my workout, so Torrent is my first shake of the day. I mix it with 16 oz. water, and then about 30 mins. later I have some solid carbs and protein to finish the meal. My stomach feels like a volcano for about 4 hours after Torrent. I'm pissed because it's an awesome supplement... but I really can't tolerate that shit day after day, it's horrible. Do I just HAVE to put up with it? Or is there a reason it happens that I can change?

By the way, I'm consuming about 3200 cals on training days (first week of the bulk...) and around 2800-2900 on non-training days (all in a 40/40/20 ratio). Any help is appreciated and thanks again.

Toni69
06-21-07, 3:11 am
Originally Posted by Ox
My favorite fat sources include:

Fish Oil (pharmaceutical grade)
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (Italian Olive Oil Only :)
Unrefined Macadamia Nut Oil
Raw Almonds and other nuts
Organic nut butters (peanut, almond, macadamia)
Whole Eggs (from hens fed a vegetarian diet)
Fatty Fish such as salmon or swordfish
Flax seed oil (in moderation)
Evening Primrose Oil

My God we eat the same! Even the carbs..I do not eat any breads or pasta (I get loads of crap for this from my Italian family members when they serve it up too! LOL) Someone I look up to in the BB industry once told me, Toni..if you wanna look and feel like bread..then knock yourself out and eat it! So, that stuck in my head till this very day. If I eat a burger or want to make fajitas...I wrap them in romaine lettuce leaves instead of bread.

Great infor here Ox and thank you so much for responding to all of our questions. I know we can become repetitive at times and some need constant reassurance, but you are extremely helpful and your "open door" policy is very generous considering how busy you must be outisde this forum...so thank you once again and we really appreciate your guidance and answering all our questions. It means a lot to all of us.

Later!...I will be back! ;)

naturalguy
06-21-07, 9:56 am
Hey Evan,

This is great of you to be doing this for us and we REALLY appreciate it.

Here's my spiel. I'm in a fuckin bind man. I've gone back on a bulking diet this summer before I go off to school. In the last year and 8 or 9 months I've gone from 140 lbs. to 175-178 lbs., while staying lean (around 10% BF). I've got Torrent in my mix now and I don't like the stomach discomfort it gives me... I thought it wasn't supposed to do that? I have two totally solid food meals before my workout, so Torrent is my first shake of the day. I mix it with 16 oz. water, and then about 30 mins. later I have some solid carbs and protein to finish the meal. My stomach feels like a volcano for about 4 hours after Torrent. I'm pissed because it's an awesome supplement... but I really can't tolerate that shit day after day, it's horrible. Do I just HAVE to put up with it? Or is there a reason it happens that I can change?

By the way, I'm consuming about 3200 cals on training days (first week of the bulk...) and around 2800-2900 on non-training days (all in a 40/40/20 ratio). Any help is appreciated and thanks again.

The feedback on Torrent has been that almost everyone tolerates it well on the stomach. In fact for me it's very "light" on my stomach.

That being said, everyone responds differently. There may be something in Torrent that doesn't jive with you. If that is the case then you should use something else. You should not live with stomach discomfort.

One suggestion I have for you is to increase your water consumption with Torrent. I would double it if I were you and see how you react. Your stomach discomfort can be caused by not enough water. In fact look at your water intake for the whole day as well. Make sure you are getting AT LEAST 1 gallon for the day. Let us know if that helps.

Ox
06-21-07, 9:58 am
since i found about my triglycerides, I have come off the "bulk" diet. For a while I have been very mindful of high fructose corn syrup ( i even noticed feeling better once i cut down on products with it included)
If you dont mind, let me run this by you?

i am 6'1'' 255-260, consistently score 270+ on apft ( pushups, situps, 2 mile run) I got a belly on me but most around me dont describe me as fat. I feel better at heavier weights, than back when i was only 220. i try to eat every 2 hours during the day ( take sandwiches to work and eat 1 at a time) i try to get 300g protein a day, I dont really eat alot of cooked veggies, prefer fresh. I was raised on a farm as a kid- so am basically a meat and potatoes type of eater. So, mainly i would keep same basic schedule and add more protein in place of carbs?
I am a beginner to watching my diet, thanks for any input
Robert

You could try running my opre-contest diet and see how you feel. I think I outlined it back on page 1 or 2. Carbs would be replaced with fats and protein would remain high. Be sure to add a good fish oil supplement to your diet and take it 3-4 times daily.

Ox
06-21-07, 10:03 am
Hey Evan,

This is great of you to be doing this for us and we REALLY appreciate it.

Here's my spiel. I'm in a fuckin bind man. I've gone back on a bulking diet this summer before I go off to school. In the last year and 8 or 9 months I've gone from 140 lbs. to 175-178 lbs., while staying lean (around 10% BF). I've got Torrent in my mix now and I don't like the stomach discomfort it gives me... I thought it wasn't supposed to do that? I have two totally solid food meals before my workout, so Torrent is my first shake of the day. I mix it with 16 oz. water, and then about 30 mins. later I have some solid carbs and protein to finish the meal. My stomach feels like a volcano for about 4 hours after Torrent. I'm pissed because it's an awesome supplement... but I really can't tolerate that shit day after day, it's horrible. Do I just HAVE to put up with it? Or is there a reason it happens that I can change?

By the way, I'm consuming about 3200 cals on training days (first week of the bulk...) and around 2800-2900 on non-training days (all in a 40/40/20 ratio). Any help is appreciated and thanks again.


I'm just thinking and it is possible that your stomach is adjusting to your overall increase in caloric intake? when I go to eating an increased amount of food my stomach usually has to adjust. If you're positive that the Torrent is to blame try cutting it out and see if you feel better without it. If you do, you could try cutting it half Torrent and half of a regular vitargo product. I've never experienced discomfort with it and I'd hate to miss out on all the aminos. If you're sensitive to creatine that may be what's causing it. Creatine can pull water to the gut and cause discomfort. If this is the case, ride it out becuase you will adjust to it.

Ox
06-21-07, 10:06 am
Originally Posted by Ox
My favorite fat sources include:

Fish Oil (pharmaceutical grade)
Extra Virgin Olive Oil (Italian Olive Oil Only :)
Unrefined Macadamia Nut Oil
Raw Almonds and other nuts
Organic nut butters (peanut, almond, macadamia)
Whole Eggs (from hens fed a vegetarian diet)
Fatty Fish such as salmon or swordfish
Flax seed oil (in moderation)
Evening Primrose Oil

My God we eat the same! Even the carbs..I do not eat any breads or pasta (I get loads of crap for this from my Italian family members when they serve it up too! LOL) Someone I look up to in the BB industry once told me, Toni..if you wanna look and feel like bread..then knock yourself out and eat it! So, that stuck in my head till this very day. If I eat a burger or want to make fajitas...I wrap them in romaine lettuce leaves instead of bread.

Great infor here Ox and thank you so much for responding to all of our questions. I know we can become repetitive at times and some need constant reassurance, but you are extremely helpful and your "open door" policy is very generous considering how busy you must be outisde this forum...so thank you once again and we really appreciate your guidance and answering all our questions. It means a lot to all of us.

Later!...I will be back! ;)

It's funny you say that becuae my family used to be the same way until they realized that I am just doing what I NEED to do. They used to be like cmon just one bite won't kill you. You've heard it before I'm sure. Once they see you getting results they respect your methodology. As for the forum, answering whatever questions I can is my pleasure. It means a lot to me to know that I am someone who you guys respect enough to come to for answers.

krazyassmexican
06-21-07, 10:36 am
hey mr ox i have a lil question i read ur pre contest diet
and i was wondering if i could do it

i am 21 years old
5'11"
i weight 226 with
26%body fat


do u think i could do the same to lower my body fat to at least 15%
and also how long would it take me?
i do weights 4 times a week and cardio 6 days a week

and then should i eat the same all year around?

if i quit eating it would i have tons of fat gains again?

ironshaolin
06-21-07, 10:56 am
OX, lots of respect. I first heard of you a while back muscular development did an article on your back workout, and I was intrigued. Then when you joined universal I was psyched. Quick question: for bulking season, whats your take on cheat meals? I stopped dieting at the end of last month, my weight was at 188. Now I'm already up to 197. I know theres no way I put on 9 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks, so some had to be fat. Do you advocate cheat meals when bulking? And if so, how often?

ldskenpo
06-21-07, 12:21 pm
You could try running my opre-contest diet and see how you feel. I think I outlined it back on page 1 or 2. Carbs would be replaced with fats and protein would remain high. Be sure to add a good fish oil supplement to your diet and take it 3-4 times daily.

i found where you outlined it, I am going to try it once i get settled and let you know how it goes. thanks again for the help, it really means alot. I know it takes time to read through all this and answer.
Robert

Kiwi129
06-21-07, 12:43 pm
Thanks for the reply Evan. I think I might try doubling my water with Torrent. But you may be right about just the overall adjustment. My stomach is fine after the first two meals but maybe the fullness/discomfort feeling just sets in around the same time the Torrent is taken... making it appear to be the Torrent causing it. Although, after the Torrent discomfort leaves my stomach is usually fine for my last three meals of the night, which kind of makes me feel that it's not JUST the increased eating. Any thoughts?

Rhetoric
06-21-07, 2:19 pm
Hey Evan, what's your take on Crystal Light? I know a lot of bodybuilders (myself included) rely on it to help get the 1 to 1.5 gallons of water a day down. I have heard tons of conflicting info about it and was just wondering what your feelings are on using it pre-contest. The way you describe your bodytype is EXACTLY like mine and I was just wondering how it affects you. Thanks

Toni69
06-21-07, 5:42 pm
Hey Evan, what's your take on Crystal Light? I know a lot of bodybuilders (myself included) rely on it to help get the 1 to 1.5 gallons of water a day down. I have heard tons of conflicting info about it and was just wondering what your feelings are on using it pre-contest. The way you describe your bodytype is EXACTLY like mine and I was just wondering how it affects you. Thanks

I know your asking Ox for an answer, but I thought I would add my 2cents..I dont know if anyone else notices this whenever they add crystal light to their water..but if I begin to drink too much of it, (cause its addictive), I find it makes me, well....pee more...meaning more often..not more pee...LOL

Its strange and maybe its because your adding this flavor stuff to your water so you drink more water cause it tastes better? Or maybe there is something in crystal light that makes you..you know..pee?

So, I stopped using so much of it. I may use it once in a while when a new flavor comes out. It just seemed odd to me.

Kiwi129
06-21-07, 5:49 pm
Hah that was so cute how you danced around the word "pee." You see all of us talking like barbarians about shitting this and butt sludge that... maybe we should all be a little more like Toni heh.

Ox
06-21-07, 8:07 pm
hey mr ox i have a lil question i read ur pre contest diet
and i was wondering if i could do it

i am 21 years old
5'11"
i weight 226 with
26%body fat


do u think i could do the same to lower my body fat to at least 15%
and also how long would it take me?
i do weights 4 times a week and cardio 6 days a week

and then should i eat the same all year around?

if i quit eating it would i have tons of fat gains again?

I would follow the same diet as me but lower the fats to 15g / meal and the protein to 6 oz per meal. 45 min cardio every day is about right. I would follow this for 16 weeks and then change back to adding in carbs. No you will not blow up.

Ox
06-21-07, 8:09 pm
OX, lots of respect. I first heard of you a while back muscular development did an article on your back workout, and I was intrigued. Then when you joined universal I was psyched. Quick question: for bulking season, whats your take on cheat meals? I stopped dieting at the end of last month, my weight was at 188. Now I'm already up to 197. I know theres no way I put on 9 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks, so some had to be fat. Do you advocate cheat meals when bulking? And if so, how often?

Thanks man I appreciate it. I think you should still have one or two cheat meals a week while bulking. Two is enough.

Ox
06-21-07, 8:11 pm
Thanks for the reply Evan. I think I might try doubling my water with Torrent. But you may be right about just the overall adjustment. My stomach is fine after the first two meals but maybe the fullness/discomfort feeling just sets in around the same time the Torrent is taken... making it appear to be the Torrent causing it. Although, after the Torrent discomfort leaves my stomach is usually fine for my last three meals of the night, which kind of makes me feel that it's not JUST the increased eating. Any thoughts?

It may be your stomach adjusting to the creatine. As I mentioned the creatine can pull some water to the stmach and cause that discomfort. If it is really bad I would discontinue use. However, I think your body may get used to it.

Ox
06-21-07, 8:19 pm
Hey Evan, what's your take on Crystal Light? I know a lot of bodybuilders (myself included) rely on it to help get the 1 to 1.5 gallons of water a day down. I have heard tons of conflicting info about it and was just wondering what your feelings are on using it pre-contest. The way you describe your bodytype is EXACTLY like mine and I was just wondering how it affects you. Thanks

This is a good question. Me, personally, I steer clear of shit like that both in the offseason and pre-contest. I think that drinking it makes you crave more of it. I just don;t trust the shit. I think artificial sweeteners are bad for you and I think that drinkin a lot of that shit before a show makes you retain water. I'm no scientist or anything but I swear that shit fucks up your metabolism. I drink my water plain thank you very much. If it's cold that's enough of a treat. Pre-contest, I may have a cup of herbal tea at night and add a little stevia to it. That's good enough. I think people have to learn to stop putting too much shit on and in their food. Taste the fuckin food for cryin out loud. If I'm eatin a piece of chicken I want to taste chicken. If I'm drinkin water, I want to taste water. Contrary to popular belief, yes, water has a taste and once you get used to it, it tastes fucking delicious. Your body craves water. It does not crave Chrystal Light. Chrystal Light doesn't mean shit to your body. Simplify your food and beverages and your body will look and feel better. Your mind will even be clearer. I swear. I know that sound like bullshit but it's true. Your head will better, your body will be more balanced. I could get into all sorts of shit about the yin and the yang of things and keeping your body in balance but I won't. Keep it simple. All that other shit is just confusion.

krazyassmexican
06-21-07, 9:25 pm
thanks a lot mr evan
I would follow the same diet as me but lower the fats to 15g / meal and the protein to 6 oz per meal. 45 min cardio every day is about right. I would follow this for 16 weeks and then change back to adding in carbs. No you will not blow up.

ironshaolin
06-21-07, 10:48 pm
Ox I'm really diggin on your attitude towards nutrition. Back to the basics. I see you like to eat salad alot, and I'm gonna ask(amongst 2 million other questions for you), what type of ingredients do you put in your salads? I believe humans need a wide variety of veggies, and most salad eaters eat lettuce with shredded carrots and cabbage, and croutons and crap. Personally I rely on V8 juice for alot of my veggies, but I'm interested to know what other veggies you throw in your salad besides lettuce.

Toni69
06-22-07, 3:48 am
This is a good question. Me, personally, I steer clear of shit like that both in the offseason and pre-contest. I think that drinking it makes you crave more of it. I just don;t trust the shit. I think artificial sweeteners are bad for you and I think that drinkin a lot of that shit before a show makes you retain water. I'm no scientist or anything but I swear that shit fucks up your metabolism. I drink my water plain thank you very much. If it's cold that's enough of a treat. Pre-contest, I may have a cup of herbal tea at night and add a little stevia to it. That's good enough. I think people have to learn to stop putting too much shit on and in their food. Taste the fuckin food for cryin out loud. If I'm eatin a piece of chicken I want to taste chicken. If I'm drinkin water, I want to taste water. Contrary to popular belief, yes, water has a taste and once you get used to it, it tastes fucking delicious. Your body craves water. It does not crave Chrystal Light. Chrystal Light doesn't mean shit to your body. Simplify your food and beverages and your body will look and feel better. Your mind will even be clearer. I swear. I know that sound like bullshit but it's true. Your head will better, your body will be more balanced. I could get into all sorts of shit about the yin and the yang of things and keeping your body in balance but I won't. Keep it simple. All that other shit is just confusion.

RIGHT ON!

naturalguy
06-22-07, 10:30 am
Ox I'm really diggin on your attitude towards nutrition. Back to the basics. I see you like to eat salad alot, and I'm gonna ask(amongst 2 million other questions for you), what type of ingredients do you put in your salads? I believe humans need a wide variety of veggies, and most salad eaters eat lettuce with shredded carrots and cabbage, and croutons and crap. Personally I rely on V8 juice for alot of my veggies, but I'm interested to know what other veggies you throw in your salad besides lettuce.

V8 is not a replacement for veggies. You are missing an important part of the vegetables - fiber

Ox
06-22-07, 11:34 am
Ox I'm really diggin on your attitude towards nutrition. Back to the basics. I see you like to eat salad alot, and I'm gonna ask(amongst 2 million other questions for you), what type of ingredients do you put in your salads? I believe humans need a wide variety of veggies, and most salad eaters eat lettuce with shredded carrots and cabbage, and croutons and crap. Personally I rely on V8 juice for alot of my veggies, but I'm interested to know what other veggies you throw in your salad besides lettuce.

Depends on whether it's offseason or pre-contest. Off-season I'll go with shredded carrots, tomato, avocado, shredded beats and just plain lettuce. Obviously there's a significant amount of carbs in there. So pre-contest, if I have a salad it'll be made out of alfalfa sprouts (much more nutritious than lettuce) and that's it. Maybe add some cucumbers. Otherwise, I'll steam fresh spinach . I'm a big beliver in leafy greens. They're packed with nutrients, they oxygenate, clean, and enrich your blood, and they also keep you regular. I've never used V8. I looked at it once but it was way too high in sodium and really lacked anything significant. I wouldn't bother with it if I were you.

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-22-07, 12:13 pm
anyone trying this type of diet, smart balance just came out with all natural omega-3 peanut butter...

DMH56308
06-22-07, 12:58 pm
anyone trying this type of diet, smart balance just came out with all natural omega-3 peanut butter...

Trying it right now, its good. Great in shakes, but just out of the jar its not as tastey as the skippy natty!

Kiwi129
06-22-07, 1:32 pm
As you saw recently in my "Torrent vs. Belly" post, and the one in here, it wasn't working so well with me. Causing some serious stomach discomfort, bloat, and bubbling. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it was the extra dose of creatine doing this. I've used post-workout drinks before with almost the same amounts of leucine and other aminos. I've used dextrose and hydrolysate, and there were no problems. I used a PWO drink once with about 3-4g of creatine in it, but at that time I WASN'T taking a creatine pre-workout as well. I take Pump, and the 6g total between Pump and Torrent is just too much I think. I bet the Pump creatine is still active and doing it's job post-workout, so more just makes it bad.

I have two options. Do you think adding more water to my Torrent would help... or make it worse? Would that cause the creatine to run more smoothly if it had a bigger abundance to pull in, or would that heighten the effects? The second choice would be just buying some bulk waxy maize (some company just came out with one that's CHEAP) and Animal Nitro. I could hit the waxy maize with Nitro immediately post-workout, then follow up 15-20 minutes later with a whey shake in water. Then of course a little while later a whole food meal to finish it all off. Thanks again for your help.

ryanlemley1
06-22-07, 1:32 pm
mad props to you bro. a complete honor to be on the same board posting along with other fellow brothers of iron and a few pros. on what other forum can you do that? well....i can say..none that matter!! looking forward to all your insight in this journey for yourself and the rest of the brother/sisterhood!!

naturalguy
06-22-07, 1:44 pm
anyone trying this type of diet, smart balance just came out with all natural omega-3 peanut butter...

The smart balance pb is good stuff

Ox
06-22-07, 1:52 pm
anyone trying this type of diet, smart balance just came out with all natural omega-3 peanut butter...

If they use flax seed oil for the omega-3s forget it. If you're going to consume flax seed oil it must be, and always have been, refrigerated. Not only that but the processing has to be meticulous. Even then, I'd go light on it because flax seed oil can raise estrogen. Just use plain old organic peanutr butter; Trader Joe's organic kills everyone else out there. Then just take fish oil supps for the omega3s. You'll be much better off. Trust me.

Ox
06-22-07, 1:55 pm
As you saw recently in my "Torrent vs. Belly" post, and the one in here, it wasn't working so well with me. Causing some serious stomach discomfort, bloat, and bubbling. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it was the extra dose of creatine doing this. I've used post-workout drinks before with almost the same amounts of leucine and other aminos. I've used dextrose and hydrolysate, and there were no problems. I used a PWO drink once with about 3-4g of creatine in it, but at that time I WASN'T taking a creatine pre-workout as well. I take Pump, and the 6g total between Pump and Torrent is just too much I think. I bet the Pump creatine is still active and doing it's job post-workout, so more just makes it bad.

I have two options. Do you think adding more water to my Torrent would help... or make it worse? Would that cause the creatine to run more smoothly if it had a bigger abundance to pull in, or would that heighten the effects? The second choice would be just buying some bulk waxy maize (some company just came out with one that's CHEAP) and Animal Nitro. I could hit the waxy maize with Nitro immediately post-workout, then follow up 15-20 minutes later with a whey shake in water. Then of course a little while later a whole food meal to finish it all off. Thanks again for your help.


I would wait a little while and see if you adjust and if not, mix half torrent and half waxy maize.

Aengus
06-23-07, 2:04 am
Hey Evan,

I started your style of diet yesterday, and even though there should be a 48-96 hour delay before the body starts relying solely on ketones, I feel great. No more bloating from the carbs! I seem to have my insulin response on a hair-trigger, so carbs were seriously fucking up my blood sugar. Without the carbs, the only side-effect is that I feel a little fuzzy in the head, if that makes any sense. I am following the diet you posted closely, substituting tuna in wherever I can due to time restrictions, and it is working out damned well. How long does it usually take before the diet snaps in to place mentally? Will the fuzzy-headed feeling go away?

Also:
You posted your diet, can you give us a heads-up on what you take post-workout on this diet?


Thanks for all the tips and support, you fucking rock.

Ox
06-23-07, 2:14 am
Hey Evan,

I started your style of diet yesterday, and even though there should be a 48-96 hour delay before the body starts relying solely on ketones, I feel great. No more bloating from the carbs! I seem to have my insulin response on a hair-trigger, so carbs were seriously fucking up my blood sugar. Without the carbs, the only side-effect is that I feel a little fuzzy in the head, if that makes any sense. I am following the diet you posted closely, substituting tuna in wherever I can due to time restrictions, and it is working out damned well. How long does it usually take before the diet snaps in to place mentally? Will the fuzzy-headed feeling go away?

Also:
You posted your diet, can you give us a heads-up on what you take post-workout on this diet?


Thanks for all the tips and support, you fucking rock.

Hey buddy. Yup everything you explained is normal. It usually takes 2-4 days before you body runs out of glycogen, in the the meantime your brain doesn't yet know to switch to ketones. Once the glycogen is wiped ou, your brain will flip the switch and you will feel crystal clear. Also, you may feel a little flat for a couple of weeks and then your pumps will be great. Just stick with it. Post-workout on this diet I just have a shake. 50-60g whey isloate and 2 tbsp peanut butter. I take my Animal nitro before and after training then slam the shake. Universal's BCAA powder throughout my workout helps induce solid pupms and keeps me from entering a catabolic state. Keep in mind the pwo thing isn't as important when dieting as in the offseason. While dieting, your calories for the day, so long as they're spaced out, are your calories for the day. The key while dieting is to sustain yourself not build. Therefore PWO isn't as crucial.

MickMars
06-23-07, 9:45 am
Hey Ox,

I've posted this in some other threads but I guessed you missed it. Anyway, I'm just wondering how is your shoulder routine like? You have killer delts and it's really inspiring. Thanks in advance for the reply bro.

Fury317
06-23-07, 11:36 am
Hey Ox,
Just want to give props to you brother. I just read through all 5 pages of this and the amount of information youve given all of us is insane! Its obvious that you are here to help us all and better the sport of bodybuilding. You are truly a man that I look up to and I will continue to check this thread to soak up all knowledge from you. Thanks!

Ironone
06-23-07, 12:06 pm
Yo Ox I was wondering whats your take on using Nitro G since your using a high fat diet do you ever use simple sugars post workout or do you only use fats. You said in a previous post that you use peanut butter post workout I thought we wanted to spike insulin post workout. Also do you think its ok to use nitro G even when on a cutting diet (post workout only).

Ox
06-23-07, 12:29 pm
Hey Ox,

I've posted this in some other threads but I guessed you missed it. Anyway, I'm just wondering how is your shoulder routine like? You have killer delts and it's really inspiring. Thanks in advance for the reply bro.

Shoulder training goes like this: 4 exercises. Super set 2 and 2.
Example:
Barbell Shoulder press superset with dumbell side laterals x 4 sets (the usual 8-12 rep range)
Bent over dumbell laterals superset with upright rows x 4 sets (same rep range)
I might finish off with some dips or some rear delts on the reverse pec deck.

Ox
06-23-07, 12:37 pm
Yo Ox I was wondering whats your take on using Nitro G since your using a high fat diet do you ever use simple sugars post workout or do you only use fats. You said in a previous post that you use peanut butter post workout I thought we wanted to spike insulin post workout. Also do you think its ok to use nitro G even when on a cutting diet (post workout only).

When I diet, because I use a ZERO carb diet, nitro G is not an option. I use the regular nitro to still get the aminos. Like I mentioned in a previous post, pwo carb intake is not necessary when dieting. When I'm dieting I DO NOT WANT TO SPIKE MY INSULIN EVER. That is the idea behind a zero carb diet; to keep insulin dormant. Offseason is where carb intake PWO and insulin spiking is important.

Ox
06-23-07, 12:38 pm
Hey Ox,
Just want to give props to you brother. I just read through all 5 pages of this and the amount of information youve given all of us is insane! Its obvious that you are here to help us all and better the sport of bodybuilding. You are truly a man that I look up to and I will continue to check this thread to soak up all knowledge from you. Thanks!

Hey man, I'm here for you guys. As much as I'm offering my advice, knowledge etc. , I'm here to learn from you guys too. We can all benefit from each other.

Giant Killer
06-23-07, 1:12 pm
When I diet, because I use a ZERO carb diet, nitro G is not an option. I use the regular nitro to still get the aminos. Like I mentioned in a previous post, pwo carb intake is not necessary when dieting. When I'm dieting I DO NOT WANT TO SPIKE MY INSULIN EVER. That is the idea behind a zero carb diet; to keep insulin dormant. Offseason is where carb intake PWO and insulin spiking is important.

But at the same time, you're so carb depleted on this diet, that the BCAA's you take in spike your blood sugar. Your blood sugar/insulin is also very sensitized. BCAA's actually have a very decent effect on insulin. You still utilize the post-workout opportunity of insulin with protein & BCAA supps. Just minus the carbs.

Ironone
06-23-07, 1:48 pm
Heres one more for you do you think a whey isolate is an ok choice to drink thoughout the day or does it digest to quickly

flamey40
06-23-07, 2:12 pm
thanks for answering everybody's questions, i've been learning a lot as i'm sure everybody else has too. i had 2 quick questions if u wouldnt mind answering.

1) in the offseason, should your first meal be bigger than the others since you have been asleep without nutrition for an extended period of time (other than downing a protein shake in the middle of the night) ?

2) what does your diet look like on the day of ur competition? i know u dont use carbs when dieting, but do you carb up at all ?

Thanks for your time and knowledge.

Maharg
06-23-07, 2:32 pm
[QUOTE=flamey40;110775]

2) what does your diet look like on the day of ur competition? i know u dont use carbs when dieting, but do you carb up at all ?

QUOTE]

He mentioned earlier that he doesnt eat any carbs on his diet because his body turns carbs into unwanted weight. He says he diets on protien and fats.

flamey40
06-23-07, 3:32 pm
[QUOTE=flamey40;110775]

2) what does your diet look like on the day of ur competition? i know u dont use carbs when dieting, but do you carb up at all ?

QUOTE]

He mentioned earlier that he doesnt eat any carbs on his diet because his body turns carbs into unwanted weight. He says he diets on protien and fats.

i know that he doesn't use carbs in his diet, i read that. but i wanted to know if he uses carbs during the carb loading phase before a competition in order to fill his glycogen stores and make his muscles look more full. i've never read before of anyone refilling their glycogen stores for a competition using only fats. so i was curious as to whether or not he uses carbs for that purpose.

justinbrown
06-23-07, 4:47 pm
hey Ox!

quick question for you!

on the nitro package it says to take on an empty stomach....but i was wondering if taking the Pak with the Nitro post workout would interfere with the absorption of the Nitro?...the reason why i was thinking of taking the Pak PWO is that id think it might help my recovery a little more...that is...if the Pak wont fool with absorption of the Nitro....hence my question! haha!

enlighten me!

thanks!

Maharg
06-23-07, 5:16 pm
[QUOTE=Maharg;110780]

i know that he doesn't use carbs in his diet, i read that. but i wanted to know if he uses carbs during the carb loading phase before a competition in order to fill his glycogen stores and make his muscles look more full. i've never read before of anyone refilling their glycogen stores for a competition using only fats. so i was curious as to whether or not he uses carbs for that purpose.

My bad man. I misread the question. I sincerely apologize.

Toni69
06-23-07, 9:07 pm
Hello Ox,

You mentioned something elarlier about flaxseed..and the type to rely on or look for. So, what about capsules? Are they any good? That is what I usually take daily. Also, ever see that flaxseed grain stuff in the box? The smell is horrendous, but like you and many of us here..I stomach what I know is good for me and sometimes leave taste out of the equation..haha!

Any thoughts on these two flaxseed options or just stick to the pure oil that needs to be chilled?

Thank you sir! ;)

flamey40
06-24-07, 12:45 am
[QUOTE=flamey40;110792]

My bad man. I misread the question. I sincerely apologize.

it's all good dude, sorry if i came off kinda strong. i'm trying to figure out this carb depleting / carb loading phase cuz' i'm gunna try to do a competition soon. :)

Ox
06-24-07, 12:34 pm
Heres one more for you do you think a whey isolate is an ok choice to drink thoughout the day or does it digest to quickly

I feel it is best for PWO. During the day I mix 1 scoops whey isolate + 1 scoop Universal Egg protein + 1 scoop specialized protein for gaining lean mass. You need somehting that is a blend of dif. types of protein. Whey digest too quickly.

Ox
06-24-07, 12:39 pm
thanks for answering everybody's questions, i've been learning a lot as i'm sure everybody else has too. i had 2 quick questions if u wouldnt mind answering.

1) in the offseason, should your first meal be bigger than the others since you have been asleep without nutrition for an extended period of time (other than downing a protein shake in the middle of the night) ?

2) what does your diet look like on the day of ur competition? i know u dont use carbs when dieting, but do you carb up at all ?

Thanks for your time and knowledge.

1) On the contrary, I feel that the first meal should be lighter as your (at least my) digestive system does not want to be bombarded with too many things that are heavy or hard to digest. Lately, breakfast for me is Egg protein, whey isolate, specialized protein for gaining lean mass (1 scoop pf each), 3/4 cup frozen mized berries, 1/2 cup whole oats, 1 tbsp olive oil, 1 tbsp mac nut oil. I feel that this meal is easy on my digestive system and is completely sufficine tin terms of satisfying my nutritonal needs.

2) 6 meals. 3 with 6 oz chicken, 1/2 cup white rice, 1 tbsp peanut butter
3 with 6 oz steak, " "
I carb up 3 days prior to the show. I add about 30g of carbs per meal (usually oats, white rice, sweet potato)

Ox
06-24-07, 12:42 pm
hey Ox!

quick question for you!

on the nitro package it says to take on an empty stomach....but i was wondering if taking the Pak with the Nitro post workout would interfere with the absorption of the Nitro?...the reason why i was thinking of taking the Pak PWO is that id think it might help my recovery a little more...that is...if the Pak wont fool with absorption of the Nitro....hence my question! haha!

enlighten me!

thanks!


The best thing to do is to take the Pak with the whole food meal you have after the gym. Take the aminos and a carb drink if you do that, hen your protein shake and then when you're ready for whole food, have the Pak then.

Ox
06-24-07, 12:50 pm
Hello Ox,

You mentioned something elarlier about flaxseed..and the type to rely on or look for. So, what about capsules? Are they any good? That is what I usually take daily. Also, ever see that flaxseed grain stuff in the box? The smell is horrendous, but like you and many of us here..I stomach what I know is good for me and sometimes leave taste out of the equation..haha!

Any thoughts on these two flaxseed options or just stick to the pure oil that needs to be chilled?

Thank you sir! ;)

Two options:
1) Find a liquid flax seed oil that has been processed using a low heat, oxygen free process. Be sure that the flax oil stays refrigerated from the manufacturing to when you purchase it. Heat, oxygen, and light turn polyunsaturated fats RANCID. Dirty word. I, myself, go this route.

2) The second option is to purchase the actual sees from a health food store and use a coffee grinder to grind the up. You can then throw the ground up powder in your oatmeal or something. Doing it this way will yield less oils. It will however, keep you more regular than you've ever been. You'll do #2 and barely have the need for TP. I still like the oil the best. Never grind ahead of time. The seed protects the fats from oxygen ad light so once your ground it it it gets exposed. Kind of like steak vs ground meat. Your chances of getting sick from the steak if it's undercooked is almost non-existent while the same is not true for gorund meat.

Toni69
06-24-07, 1:58 pm
Cool, thank you..and uhhh....#2? Did you have to go there? I am quick to figuring stuff out by code you know...LOL...no more talk about being regular..surely not having this discussion again! LOL

justinbrown
06-24-07, 3:09 pm
The best thing to do is to take the Pak with the whole food meal you have after the gym. Take the aminos and a carb drink if you do that, hen your protein shake and then when you're ready for whole food, have the Pak then.

nice!

will-do OX

thanks for your quick reply!

thats really cool that you answer our questions like this

musclealchemist
06-24-07, 3:52 pm
hey evan, i got question for you. I know you said once upon a time you were over weight. When you lost your weight, did you have some extra skin hanging around? Because i too was over weight when i was younger and once i lost the weight, the skin stayed. I was just wondering if there is anyway to get rid of the skin besides filling it up with muscle. Thanks.

Ox
06-24-07, 4:01 pm
hey evan, i got question for you. I know you said once upon a time you were over weight. When you lost your weight, did you have some extra skin hanging around? Because i too was over weight when i was younger and once i lost the weight, the skin stayed. I was just wondering if there is anyway to get rid of the skin besides filling it up with muscle. Thanks.

My skin was lose around my stomach. Even now, if I fluctuate too much between offseaosn and pre-contest that will happen. The only thing you can do is hold a low bodyfat for a period of time and try and torture that lose skin off. It can be done. You're just going to have to punish yourself.

musclealchemist
06-24-07, 4:46 pm
thanks Evan, you the man.

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-24-07, 6:08 pm
If they use flax seed oil for the omega-3s forget it. If you're going to consume flax seed oil it must be, and always have been, refrigerated. Not only that but the processing has to be meticulous. Even then, I'd go light on it because flax seed oil can raise estrogen. Just use plain old organic peanutr butter; Trader Joe's organic kills everyone else out there. Then just take fish oil supps for the omega3s. You'll be much better off. Trust me.

GOOD LOOKIN OUT!!!! Thanks Ox :)

flamey40
06-24-07, 10:49 pm
thanks ox for the info, i really appreciate it.

YOUNG_BB
06-24-07, 11:34 pm
I've seen some of ur articles on MD, and i was amazed on how u looked, like a tru freak, but i did notice that u had big stretch marks, how did this happen?, was it cuz of the young overweight then losing it at a very fast pase, or what it that all that muscle stretched out the skin? or mayb both

i ask this becuz im starting to get strech marks, im 15 , 210 at most, i dont kno my b/f percentage but i do have some unwanted bodyfat, altho i have been trainig and i've gain a lot of muscle on my legs, arms (tris/bis) chest, i dunno what is the cause of this, and im usually very scratchy around the places where suddenly stretch marks appear.

once again thanks for takin ur time to educate us

Ox
06-25-07, 12:26 am
I've seen some of ur articles on MD, and i was amazed on how u looked, like a tru freak, but i did notice that u had big stretch marks, how did this happen?, was it cuz of the young overweight then losing it at a very fast pase, or what it that all that muscle stretched out the skin? or mayb both

i ask this becuz im starting to get strech marks, im 15 , 210 at most, i dont kno my b/f percentage but i do have some unwanted bodyfat, altho i have been trainig and i've gain a lot of muscle on my legs, arms (tris/bis) chest, i dunno what is the cause of this, and im usually very scratchy around the places where suddenly stretch marks appear.

once again thanks for takin ur time to educate us

Hey man. People ask me this quite often. I'm not sure which ones you're referring to. The ones on my arms are from a long time ago when I was overweight. The ones on my chest and back aremore recent. I never really gained drastic amounts of weight quickly. I think it may just have to do with the elasticity of my skin. One thing I will say was that I always followed a low fat diet incorrectly thinkjng that fat is what makes you fat. perhaps I was defficient in regard to EFAs and this made my skin less elastic. This is purely speculation but if you're worried about stretch marks, make sure your diet is rich in EFAs as theydefinitely help improve your skin tone and texture.

gnoll5
06-25-07, 1:39 pm
hey Ox, nice thread you got going here. a quick question: do you find when you are consuming little in the way of carbs that you feel depleted and fatigued often? if so how do you overcome this? i find about midday i feel like i am crashing hard, gulp down a Gatorade and i am good to go; i presume its the carbs.

Ox
06-25-07, 2:40 pm
hey Ox, nice thread you got going here. a quick question: do you find when you are consuming little in the way of carbs that you feel depleted and fatigued often? if so how do you overcome this? i find about midday i feel like i am crashing hard, gulp down a Gatorade and i am good to go; i presume its the carbs.

If I am taking in ZERO carbs then no I do not feel sluggish. If I cheat a little and have a little carbs here a little there then I will feel shitty. You either have to go all or none. If you don;t go 100% then you will not go into ketosis and your brain will still be trying to run off of what little glycogen you have and it's probably not enough which is why you may feel lousy. Go 100% and after 4 days you will feel like a million bucks.

fultz2400
06-25-07, 8:23 pm
hey ox i have a question for you. as you can see from this picture http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/fultz2400/?action=view&current=IMAG0007.jpg
most of the mass in my legs, is up high and they are skinny on the bottom. i was wondering what exercises would be best to target those lower areas like the teardrop and the other side as well. thanks in advance

i was also wondering when your next show is going to be

Ox
06-25-07, 9:26 pm
hey ox i have a question for you. as you can see from this picture http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/fultz2400/?action=view&current=IMAG0007.jpg
most of the mass in my legs, is up high and they are skinny on the bottom. i was wondering what exercises would be best to target those lower areas like the teardrop and the other side as well. thanks in advance

i was also wondering when your next show is going to be

Your best bet is to re-work your form on the squat. I'm guessing you squat with a wider stance? Let me know how you usually squat. Do you squat wide or narrow? More on your toes or on your heals? Toes pointed in or out? Let me know and I'll tell you what you need to do. My next show will be the NPC Nationals in Dallas, Texas the second week in November. I'm looking forward to it.

fultz2400
06-26-07, 7:56 am
Your best bet is to re-work your form on the squat. I'm guessing you squat with a wider stance? Let me know how you usually squat. Do you squat wide or narrow? More on your toes or on your heals? Toes pointed in or out? Let me know and I'll tell you what you need to do. My next show will be the NPC Nationals in Dallas, Texas the second week in November. I'm looking forward to it.


well i used to squat with my feet pretty close together and didnt go down as far but just recently i decided to change my form. i have a wider stance now just a hair more than shoulder width and toes pointed slightly out and im going below parallel.

Ox
06-26-07, 9:53 am
well i used to squat with my feet pretty close together and didnt go down as far but just recently i decided to change my form. i have a wider stance now just a hair more than shoulder width and toes pointed slightly out and im going below parallel.

I would stick with that but be sure that you are pushing with your heals and are not leaning forward onto your toes. Try keeping your feet straight ahead if you can and your knees wide as you come down. You may want to try this:

Leg extensions: 3 triple drop sets (do this to pre-exhaust)
Squat: 6 sets x 8-12 reps
Superset walking lunges with the hack squat machine x 3 sets

Toni69
06-26-07, 10:54 am
Hello again Sir,

What's your take on waxy maize starch? I just started adding it to my Storm/BCAA blend right after training. Then I take down a whey/oats protein shake 30min after that.

Do you use it, (WMS)? If so when and how do you use it? I felt really good after taking it today in my Storm/BCAA stack. I read different views here and there on whether or not it should be added to your whey shakes. Some companies say yay and others say nay.

I know Torrent rocks, but it has too many carbs/sugars for me and I rather rely more on solid foods anyway. I just like to get in what I need right after training to hold me over to my mext meal. So I use a sugar free/fat free waxy maize starch brand (30g carbs, no sugars).

Thanks!

Hikeon3
06-26-07, 2:26 pm
Hello again Sir,

What's your take on waxy maize starch? I just started adding it to my Storm/BCAA blend right after training. Then I take down a whey/oats protein shake 30min after that.

Do you use it, (WMS)? If so when and how do you use it? I felt really good after taking it today in my Storm/BCAA stack. I read different views here and there on whether or not it should be added to your whey shakes. Some companies say yay and others say nay.

I know Torrent rocks, but it has too many carbs/sugars for me and I rather rely more on solid foods anyway. I just like to get in what I need right after training to hold me over to my mext meal. So I use a sugar free/fat free waxy maize starch brand (30g carbs, no sugars).

Thanks!

Having read this entire thread about 50 times already, I'll try to answer for him and then he can confirm/deny the response.

During pre-contest dieting, any and all insulin spikes should be avoided. Waxy Maize causes an insulin spike post-workout and therefore should be avoided. But in off-season dieting, insulin spikes can be utilized to create the growth you want. So off-season, a serving or two of waxy maize post-workout is good. But during pre-contest, essential fats and protein should be your staple.

Toni69
06-26-07, 3:25 pm
You didnt answer my question though...I am well aware of insulin spikes and dieting, I just finished a show. I do know what WMS is..I am currently utilizing it, as stated in my earlier post.

I was asking OX for HIS OPINION on WMS as far as is it something he uses at all (does he find it beneficial). If he does, when and how does he use it. "When" meaning pre or post workout and "How" meaning does he mix it with protein powder, does he mix it with creatine?

thanks anyway, but I was expecting his take on it for a reason.

Ironone
06-26-07, 4:56 pm
If you are dieting and some days you only had time to workout or do cardio which do you think is more important . Thanks

Beowulf
06-26-07, 5:44 pm
Hey Ox, which supplements are part of your basic regimen? Animal Pak I'm guessing. Anything else? How's preparing for Nationals going?

Ox
06-26-07, 6:47 pm
Hello again Sir,

What's your take on waxy maize starch? I just started adding it to my Storm/BCAA blend right after training. Then I take down a whey/oats protein shake 30min after that.

Do you use it, (WMS)? If so when and how do you use it? I felt really good after taking it today in my Storm/BCAA stack. I read different views here and there on whether or not it should be added to your whey shakes. Some companies say yay and others say nay.

I know Torrent rocks, but it has too many carbs/sugars for me and I rather rely more on solid foods anyway. I just like to get in what I need right after training to hold me over to my mext meal. So I use a sugar free/fat free waxy maize starch brand (30g carbs, no sugars).

Thanks!

You feel good after using it right? I like it too. It makes me feel full but with no bloating. Great recuperation. I use Torrent but have used just a plain WMS in the past. I use about 70g PWO mixed with water. I know you're worried about the fact that Torrent has sugar in it but in reality, WMS is more glycemic than straight up sugar. Just like plain white bread, although it may technicaly be all starch which is a complex carb, it's just a strand of glucose molecules and it gets broken down into glucose quicker than plain table sugar. So what I'm saying is that if you're worried about sugar content because youre worried about putting on fat, I wouldn't because it really comes down to the Glycemic index. At least that's how I feel about it. But you could still just as easily use a plain WMS PWO with 3 packs of Animal Nitro. I just like the added benefit and convenience of all the aminos and the creatine. I like it with just water because I think that makes it get to the muscles quicker and spike insulin more efficiently. Then, after about a half hour once your insulin is up (and the aminos from the nitro get into circulation), slam a protein shake and all the aminos get shuttled. I have used it before workouts before an get sick pumps but start to worry about too many calories. Pre workout though, it will give you sick energy and nasty pumps. But if you're going to do this just make sure you take it no longer than 20-30 min before you train or you could get a little light headed during your training.

Ox
06-26-07, 6:48 pm
If you are dieting and some days you only had time to workout or do cardio which do you think is more important . Thanks

Without hesitation I say work out.

Ox
06-26-07, 6:54 pm
Hey Ox, which supplements are part of your basic regimen? Animal Pak I'm guessing. Anything else? How's preparing for Nationals going?

My staples include:

Animal Pak
Uni-Liver Tabs
Specialized Protein for Lean Mass
Egg Protein
Ultra Iso Whey
Fish oil

I conside these supps vital but more need-specific even though I use them daily:
Torrent
Animal Nitro
Animal Pump
BCAAs
GH Max

Training for the Nationals is going great. Thanks for asking. Ready to rock in November brother.

fultz2400
06-26-07, 6:56 pm
I would stick with that but be sure that you are pushing with your heals and are not leaning forward onto your toes. Try keeping your feet straight ahead if you can and your knees wide as you come down. You may want to try this:

Leg extensions: 3 triple drop sets (do this to pre-exhaust)
Squat: 6 sets x 8-12 reps
Superset walking lunges with the hack squat machine x 3 sets

thanks for all your help, its awesome that you guys from universal take time out of your day to help us. thanks again for the advice

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-26-07, 7:32 pm
Hey Ox,

Thanks for your willingness to be so open to answer so many questions on here, thats really stand up of you and everyone on the forum appreciates it here.

Question:

You say to steer clear of carbs when dieting, even a little as to not confuse the body between ketosis and glycogen for fuel, so you dont feel like crap.

Regardless of the feeling it induces because I care less even though it sucks superlow carb... what do you think about using torrent post workout and no other carbs during the day?

Will you still be able to go into ketosis enough throughout the rest of the day to bun fat and still be able to utilize the insulin spike pw to gain pw? Im assuming not since you arent doing it, have you ever attempted this?

Or is it kind of taking 1 step forward before taking one step back with no possibility of having my cake and eating it too. Thanks bro.

Ironone
06-26-07, 8:02 pm
That is surprising can you explain why I thought that when dieting workouts would only maitain your gains without the cardio I would not burn the calories that I could have So please go into futher detail Thanks

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-26-07, 8:04 pm
That is surprising can you explain why I thought that when dieting workouts would only maitain your gains without the cardio I would not burn the calories that I could have So please go into futher detail Thanks

anaerobic training raises your metabolism for longer periods than cardio

Ox
06-26-07, 9:55 pm
Hey Ox,

Thanks for your willingness to be so open to answer so many questions on here, thats really stand up of you and everyone on the forum appreciates it here.

Question:

You say to steer clear of carbs when dieting, even a little as to not confuse the body between ketosis and glycogen for fuel, so you dont feel like crap.

Regardless of the feeling it induces because I care less even though it sucks superlow carb... what do you think about using torrent post workout and no other carbs during the day?

Will you still be able to go into ketosis enough throughout the rest of the day to bun fat and still be able to utilize the insulin spike pw to gain pw? Im assuming not since you arent doing it, have you ever attempted this?

Or is it kind of taking 1 step forward before taking one step back with no possibility of having my cake and eating it too. Thanks bro.

It's funny you ask this question because yes I have tried this and no it doesn't work well at all. I felt very lethargic doing this. I know where you're coming from and consequently tried it. Don't bother. Trust me, if your aim is to get peeled and not lose any muscle, try the high protein, high fat diet I've described. You will keep all your muscle (I've seen guys actaully grow if they were not previously consuming a lot of fats) and you will get sliced. Trust me. Again, when dieitng you DO NOT WANT TO SPIKE YOUR INSULIN.

Ox
06-26-07, 10:02 pm
That is surprising can you explain why I thought that when dieting workouts would only maitain your gains without the cardio I would not burn the calories that I could have So please go into futher detail Thanks

Weight training burns far more fat and calories than cardio. Unless of course you're doing high intensity cardio and in that course your going to lose muscle anyways and would probably be better off not weight training at all. The idea behind cardio is burn fat without burning muscle. If you just want to burn tons of calories then go for long runs or better yet cut back on your food intake. We both know that if you did that you would probably not be happy with how you look. A sound diet and intense weight training far outweigh the importance of cardio when it comes to dropping bodyfat.

Ox
06-26-07, 10:03 pm
thanks for all your help, its awesome that you guys from universal take time out of your day to help us. thanks again for the advice

It's my pleasure. Never hesitate to aks anything that may be on your mind.

Hikeon3
06-26-07, 10:43 pm
Weight training burns far more fat and calories than cardio. Unless of course you're doing high intensity cardio and in that course your going to lose muscle anyways and would probably be better off not weight training at all. The idea behind cardio is burn fat without burning muscle. If you just want to burn tons of calories then go for long runs or better yet cut back on your food intake. We both know that if you did that you would probably not be happy with how you look. A sound diet and intense weight training far outweigh the importance of cardio when it comes to dropping bodyfat.

What about circuit training? I was considering doing full-body circuits with little rest in between sets instead of cardio, because I hate it. Have you tried this? If so, how were the results?

Ox
06-27-07, 12:11 am
What about circuit training? I was considering doing full-body circuits with little rest in between sets instead of cardio, because I hate it. Have you tried this? If so, how were the results?

I've never used circuit training but I do not think it would be ideal for making substantial muscle gains. Simply put, circuit training is not bodybuilding. If your looking for general fitness and to be in good shape and be lean then I suppose you could go this route and eliminate cardio if your diet is good enough and depending on your bodycomposition and metabolism. Everyone hates cardio.

Maccabee
06-27-07, 12:56 am
Hey Ox, my cousin approached me and asked me to write him out a diet plan. Now I am not asking you to make one for him, I just need some tips or guidance. He is about 197 lbs and extremely fat...he is 15 and just joined a gym. I instructed him to do about 20 minutes of cardio 4-5 times a week for the beginning. When it comes to food how do I go about setting up a cutting diet. I never really shredded down before so I have no experience in this field regarding food. Should I just tell him to just eat clean and drink plenty of water or do I need to make him a specific diet to follow. Are there any supps he should take as well? Thanks

brandonA
06-27-07, 1:07 am
Hey Big Ox...I am off the carbs bro...1st day...dropped the Torrent as well...post workout was a dbl scoop shake using specialized protein for dieters, peanut butter and coca powder..Figured why go in half asses and get half asses results..But I have a question...Almonds have carbs in them, veggies have carbs in them, is the amount too low to matter?..Thanks for all your help and I will keep you up to date on the progress..

-B

Toni69
06-27-07, 3:17 am
You feel good after using it right? I like it too. It makes me feel full but with no bloating. Great recuperation. I use Torrent but have used just a plain WMS in the past. I use about 70g PWO mixed with water. I know you're worried about the fact that Torrent has sugar in it but in reality, WMS is more glycemic than straight up sugar. Just like plain white bread, although it may technicaly be all starch which is a complex carb, it's just a strand of glucose molecules and it gets broken down into glucose quicker than plain table sugar. So what I'm saying is that if you're worried about sugar content because youre worried about putting on fat, I wouldn't because it really comes down to the Glycemic index. At least that's how I feel about it. But you could still just as easily use a plain WMS PWO with 3 packs of Animal Nitro. I just like the added benefit and convenience of all the aminos and the creatine. I like it with just water because I think that makes it get to the muscles quicker and spike insulin more efficiently. Then, after about a half hour once your insulin is up (and the aminos from the nitro get into circulation), slam a protein shake and all the aminos get shuttled. I have used it before workouts before an get sick pumps but start to worry about too many calories. Pre workout though, it will give you sick energy and nasty pumps. But if you're going to do this just make sure you take it no longer than 20-30 min before you train or you could get a little light headed during your training.

This is what I am talking about! Straight up, direct answers to your questions! than you Ox..much appreciated and points well understood. Thanks again!

Ox
06-27-07, 10:38 am
Hey Ox, my cousin approached me and asked me to write him out a diet plan. Now I am not asking you to make one for him, I just need some tips or guidance. He is about 197 lbs and extremely fat...he is 15 and just joined a gym. I instructed him to do about 20 minutes of cardio 4-5 times a week for the beginning. When it comes to food how do I go about setting up a cutting diet. I never really shredded down before so I have no experience in this field regarding food. Should I just tell him to just eat clean and drink plenty of water or do I need to make him a specific diet to follow. Are there any supps he should take as well? Thanks

I outlined the diet I use pre-contest in an earlier post. It was either on page one or two. I would use that diet and adjust it accordingly. For example, I would cut the portions of fat by 50%. The protein portions can stay the same.

Ox
06-27-07, 10:39 am
Hey Big Ox...I am off the carbs bro...1st day...dropped the Torrent as well...post workout was a dbl scoop shake using specialized protein for dieters, peanut butter and coca powder..Figured why go in half asses and get half asses results..But I have a question...Almonds have carbs in them, veggies have carbs in them, is the amount too low to matter?..Thanks for all your help and I will keep you up to date on the progress..

-B

Don't worry about the carbs in the nuts and so long as you are eating GREEN veggies don't sweat those carbs either. Keep me posted. Stick to it.

Ox
06-27-07, 10:40 am
This is what I am talking about! Straight up, direct answers to your questions! than you Ox..much appreciated and points well understood. Thanks again!

Anytime. You always have intelligent questions.

TufffGuY
06-27-07, 10:55 am
Weight training burns far more fat and calories than cardio. Unless of course you're doing high intensity cardio and in that course your going to lose muscle anyways and would probably be better off not weight training at all. The idea behind cardio is burn fat without burning muscle. If you just want to burn tons of calories then go for long runs or better yet cut back on your food intake. We both know that if you did that you would probably not be happy with how you look. A sound diet and intense weight training far outweigh the importance of cardio when it comes to dropping bodyfat.

Hey Ox, you say that high intensity cardio burns muscle, but I got to disagree with you. How can you burn more muscle when your only going for 16 minutes, instead of the usual 30-45 minutes of slow intenstity cardio. Wouldn;t you have a greater chance of burning muslce since you are doing the cardio for a longer period of time. For instance take a sprinter and a lng distance runner, If you look at the sprinters legs, their going to be bigger than the runner legs 200% of the time. I just don't see how you can burn more muscle doing shorter more intense cardio. If anything you might build muscle in your quads.

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-27-07, 11:18 am
It's funny you ask this question because yes I have tried this and no it doesn't work well at all. I felt very lethargic doing this. I know where you're coming from and consequently tried it. Don't bother. Trust me, if your aim is to get peeled and not lose any muscle, try the high protein, high fat diet I've described. You will keep all your muscle (I've seen guys actaully grow if they were not previously consuming a lot of fats) and you will get sliced. Trust me. Again, when dieitng you DO NOT WANT TO SPIKE YOUR INSULIN.


Ive actually been on it about 6 days now (who could resist something new?)... and Ive already noticed a difference in my energy levels (I never felt sluggish however, should I have hit that phase before the ketone transition yet?)... and Im up 6 pounds eating less than I was previously (gotta be the scale being off haha). I hardly took in any fats at all before except what naturally occured in eggs or beef. I have my meals stretched to 8 instead of 6 so I can eat more often to keep the tank topped off.

Looks like my cannisters of torrent will collect dust for a bit (Im glad you thought of this too and saved me the trial and error)... I could stand to lose a little around the waist... I feel like I got jipped at the liquor store with the two-pack Ive been rolling with for the past year. (haha) I'll let you know how this thing plays out and my progress along the way. Thanks Bro

ghost
06-27-07, 11:22 am
Im up 6 pounds eating less than I was previously (gotta be the scale being off haha).

throw that scale out the fucking window. get yourself a bunch of mirrors

Grond Al-Ghoul
06-27-07, 11:26 am
throw that scale out the fucking window. get yourself a bunch of mirrors

haha... it was the gyms scale... they might notice if I throw that shit out. Im pretty happy what the mirrors yielding so far.

Beowulf
06-27-07, 11:30 am
My staples include:

Animal Pak
Uni-Liver Tabs
Specialized Protein for Lean Mass
Egg Protein
Ultra Iso Whey
Fish oil

I conside these supps vital but more need-specific even though I use them daily:
Torrent
Animal Nitro
Animal Pump
BCAAs
GH Max

Training for the Nationals is going great. Thanks for asking. Ready to rock in November brother.

Thanks for the quick reply. I have to say, I'm really impressed with the way you respond on this thread and the time you commit to the members here. I wish more bodybuilders were like you. Uni-Liver? That's interesting. I'll have to check that out. Thanks.

brandonA
06-27-07, 11:34 am
Don't worry about the carbs in the nuts and so long as you are eating GREEN veggies don't sweat those carbs either. Keep me posted. Stick to it.

Thanks...slaming my eggs right now...

-B

Toni69
06-27-07, 12:21 pm
Originally Posted by Ox :
"Weight training burns far more fat and calories than cardio. Unless of course you're doing high intensity cardio and in that course your going to lose muscle anyways and would probably be better off not weight training at all. The idea behind cardio is burn fat without burning muscle. If you just want to burn tons of calories then go for long runs or better yet cut back on your food intake. We both know that if you did that you would probably not be happy with how you look. A sound diet and intense weight training far outweigh the importance of cardio when it comes to dropping bodyfat."

Posted by TuffGuy:
"Hey Ox, you say that high intensity cardio burns muscle, but I got to disagree with you. How can you burn more muscle when your only going for 16 minutes, instead of the usual 30-45 minutes of slow intenstity cardio. Wouldn;t you have a greater chance of burning muslce since you are doing the cardio for a longer period of time. For instance take a sprinter and a lng distance runner, If you look at the sprinters legs, their going to be bigger than the runner legs 200% of the time. I just don't see how you can burn more muscle doing shorter more intense cardio. If anything you might build muscle in your quads."

Sorry Ox if I stepped in here inappropriately..your call after my blah, blah, blah! LOL

You do have a greater chance of burning muscle for doing longer periods of cardio...you may have contradicted yourself in your post??? Also, Ox said...high intensity cardio will burn muscle.

Your actually managing to maintain the muscle you have and burn fat more efficiently when incorporating shorter periods of cardio more frequently!

I used Ox's method for my training/cardio when dieting for the last show and for my last guest pose thing. I managed to maintain the 8lbs of muscle I had gained since my last show. I didnt overdo the cardio, just did 30-40min a day after training...didnt burn any muscle that I am aware of either, (like I did for my previous show, weighing in at a measly 101lbs and doing 2 hrs of cardio a day on a already depleted diet!). This new approach to cardio did not place me at risk of burning muscle and I still shed off fat!

Arnold said this in his book: "Because BB training relies on a higher volume (sets and reps), than weightlifting, per se, it has some cardiovascular benefit and also leads to an increase in muscular endurance. BB'rs tend to train at the pace which is just below their threshold of cardiovascular failure..meaning they train as fast as they can without overwhelming the ability of the body to provide oxygen to the muscles."

The main goal for BB'rs to shape and sculpt their bodies is through lifting...not so much aerobic activity. Whenever I use the stepper or the stairs, my legs get pumped..Im not exhausted from doing so much cardio that I could actually feel the muscles melting away. Its not necessary to do all that cardio at once..at least not for BB'rs..especially if we manage to stay pretty hard and lean even in our off season.

Ox
06-27-07, 8:03 pm
Hey Ox, you say that high intensity cardio burns muscle, but I got to disagree with you. How can you burn more muscle when your only going for 16 minutes, instead of the usual 30-45 minutes of slow intenstity cardio. Wouldn;t you have a greater chance of burning muslce since you are doing the cardio for a longer period of time. For instance take a sprinter and a lng distance runner, If you look at the sprinters legs, their going to be bigger than the runner legs 200% of the time. I just don't see how you can burn more muscle doing shorter more intense cardio. If anything you might build muscle in your quads.

Sprinting for 15 minutes (which you cannot do) would burn more glycogen than fat whereas 15 minutes of walking will burn more fat than glycogen. High intensity cardio is a poor choice for bodybuilders. That's why none of them do it. If you want to build quads do squats. If you want to drop bodyfat, diet and do low impact cardio. Trust me, I've done both and can attest to the differences. If high intensity cardio were more favorbale for burning fat and preserving lean mass that is what the pro and top amateur bodybuilders would be doing. There's no way you'll burn muscle walking on a treadmill @ 3.5 mph for up to 45 -60 min at a clip. Anything over this amount is best split into two sessions. You will however burn more muscle glycogen and consequently muscle mass by running at full capacity and or sprinting for 15 minutes.

bharatoza
06-27-07, 8:45 pm
Sprinting for 15 minutes (which you cannot do) would burn more glycogen than fat whereas 15 minutes of walking will burn more fat than glycogen. High intensity cardio is a poor choice for bodybuilders. That's why none of them do it. If you want to build quads do squats. If you want to drop bodyfat, diet and do low impact cardio. Trust me, I've done both and can attest to the differences. If high intensity cardio were more favorbale for burning fat and preserving lean mass that is what the pro and top amateur bodybuilders would be doing. There's no way you'll burn muscle walking on a treadmill @ 3.5 mph for up to 45 -60 min at a clip. Anything over this amount is best split into two sessions. You will however burn more muscle glycogen and consequently muscle mass by running at full capacity and or sprinting for 15 minutes.

Should I maintain a particular HR while walking on the treadmill @ 3.5mph?
I'm 24 years old and I maintain a HR between 130-135bpm on the elliptical trainer.

TufffGuY
06-28-07, 12:21 am
Sprinting for 15 minutes (which you cannot do) would burn more glycogen than fat whereas 15 minutes of walking will burn more fat than glycogen. High intensity cardio is a poor choice for bodybuilders. That's why none of them do it. If you want to build quads do squats. If you want to drop bodyfat, diet and do low impact cardio. Trust me, I've done both and can attest to the differences. If high intensity cardio were more favorbale for burning fat and preserving lean mass that is what the pro and top amateur bodybuilders would be doing. There's no way you'll burn muscle walking on a treadmill @ 3.5 mph for up to 45 -60 min at a clip. Anything over this amount is best split into two sessions. You will however burn more muscle glycogen and consequently muscle mass by running at full capacity and or sprinting for 15 minutes.

Energy expenditure during cardio is very misunderstood. What is even more misunderstood is energy expenditure after cardio as a result of the cardio. When doing cardio, the primary energy source your body uses is glycogen. Your body uses very little, if any, fat stores for energy during cardio. Even if you haven't eaten food for several hours your body still uses glycogen as its primary energy source. You must let go of the wrong assumption that you are actually burning fat while you are doing cardio. You are not!

The benefit you get from cardio, from a fat burning standpoint (there are many other health benefits), is its effect on your resting metabolic rate. Your resting metabolic rate is the amount of energy your body expends when you are not exerting yourself, at rest. Cardio training, and especially Max-OT Cardio, has a dramatic elevating effect on your body's resting metabolic rate.

When you increase your resting metabolic rate, you increase your body's overall fat burning capabilities - you make your body much more efficient at burning body fat. Max-OT Cardio will make your body a 24-hour a day fat burning furnace. The problem with conventional, long duration, low intensity cardio is that it has minimum impact on increasing your resting metabolic rate. However, long duration, low intensity cardio will deplete glycogen stores. When this happens, you will start primarily utilizing lean muscle for your energy needs. Long duration cardio will break down muscle tissue.

A good real-world example of the difference in effect of Max-OT Cardio and long duration cardio has on athlete’s physiques is to look at sprinters and long distance runners. Sprinters are very lean and extremely muscular. Long distance runners are lanky, frail, with little muscle yet possess higher body fat levels than the sprinters.

Sprinters train in a manner that is very similar to the Max-OT Cardio principles – short burst of maximum intensity - whereas long distance runners train more inline with the conventional cardio approach - low intensity for longer periods of time. What type of physique would you rather have?

Taken from an article written by Paul Delia.


I use the bike, not the treadmill. I separate my cardio and wiegh tlifting by at least 8 hours and you say none of the top bodybuilders do it, but Skip La Cour and Jeff Willet do high intenstity cardio, and they are some of the top NATURAL bodybuilders, if its good enough for them, its good enough for me.

Toni69
06-28-07, 3:57 am
Ok, I am surely not attacking you here...this is a "discussion" and a slight difference of opinion for arguments sake...nothing more or less.

Who is Paul Delia? Using articles from reliable sources, such as medical journals and peer reviewed journals is one thing. Finding just some Joe off the interent who writes articles for people who are just looking for quick answers is another. Anybody can write a documentary, you can write one..doesnt mean what your talking about has any value or fact to it. However, many will believe it because its out there in the open and people are always looking for answers that easily suit their needs, not necessarily meaning that they are realistic or have any solid evidence of being true.

Again, the topic of cardio was pointed in the direction of benefiting BODYBUILDERS, not runners, swimmers, gymnasts, your next door neighbor and their dog. Regardless of what you think that article means, your getting real life experiences and an inside look at what the pros do and how they do it right here!

There are always a select few that do things out of the norm..Jay Cutler drinks coke religiously when dieting for a show...some people need to do loads of cardio cause they put on too much weight in the offseason. You really cannot compare a BB'r to a sprinter or a long distance runner...we all live in the same jungle but we live and eat separately.

TufffGuY
06-28-07, 9:40 am
Ok, I am surely not attacking you here...this is a "discussion" and a slight difference of opinion for arguments sake...nothing more or less.

Who is Paul Delia? Using articles from reliable sources, such as medical journals and peer reviewed journals is one thing. Finding just some Joe off the interent who writes articles for people who are just looking for quick answers is another. Anybody can write a documentary, you can write one..doesnt mean what your talking about has any value or fact to it. However, many will believe it because its out there in the open and people are always looking for answers that easily suit their needs, not necessarily meaning that they are realistic or have any solid evidence of being true.

Again, the topic of cardio was pointed in the direction of benefiting BODYBUILDERS, not runners, swimmers, gymnasts, your next door neighbor and their dog. Regardless of what you think that article means, your getting real life experiences and an inside look at what the pros do and how they do it right here!

There are always a select few that do things out of the norm..Jay Cutler drinks coke religiously when dieting for a show...some people need to do loads of cardio cause they put on too much weight in the offseason. You really cannot compare a BB'r to a sprinter or a long distance runner...we all live in the same jungle but we live and eat separately.

Paul Delia is the founder and president of AST Sports Science, he is a bodybuilder and also has written tons of articles based on nutritional research, he is also the creator of the training program called Max-OT.

Ox
06-28-07, 10:10 am
Should I maintain a particular HR while walking on the treadmill @ 3.5mph?
I'm 24 years old and I maintain a HR between 130-135bpm on the elliptical trainer.

Aim for a heartrate between 120-125.

simon85
06-28-07, 1:49 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

Maharg
06-28-07, 2:07 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

against the rules bro.

Toni69
06-28-07, 2:08 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

check your pm's..thanks

osiris
06-28-07, 3:05 pm
Hey bro , welcome to our world. Just one question, and correct me if I am wrong:-
Are you not part of team MD? I am sure I saw a welcome thread for you on their forum.

Hikeon3
06-28-07, 3:43 pm
Is recovery time while running off of healthy essential fats comparable to while on carbs? I did keto a while back and my recuperation times sucked. I was sore for 5 days after a good session.

TufffGuY
06-28-07, 3:56 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

lol, wrong way to start of a conversation.

krazyassmexican
06-28-07, 4:02 pm
u could burn fat doing cardio assuming that ur cardio goes after weight training

glycogen is the fuel that the weight training would use
if u empty the stores

by the time u hit the cardio room
ur body will start using bodyfat as fuel

by the way OX thanks for making it clear about sprintin
i wont sprint again



Energy expenditure during cardio is very misunderstood. What is even more misunderstood is energy expenditure after cardio as a result of the cardio. When doing cardio, the primary energy source your body uses is glycogen. Your body uses very little, if any, fat stores for energy during cardio. Even if you haven't eaten food for several hours your body still uses glycogen as its primary energy source. You must let go of the wrong assumption that you are actually burning fat while you are doing cardio. You are not!

Ox
06-28-07, 8:16 pm
Hey bro , welcome to our world. Just one question, and correct me if I am wrong:-
Are you not part of team MD? I am sure I saw a welcome thread for you on their forum.

I am part of team MD and post under the staff and pro's section regularly. Make sure you check out the August issue of MD (which is out right now). Yours' Truly is on the Cover.

Ox
06-28-07, 8:19 pm
Is recovery time while running off of healthy essential fats comparable to while on carbs? I did keto a while back and my recuperation times sucked. I was sore for 5 days after a good session.


I recuperate better on fats than on carbs. You must make sure you're consuming enough of them and the right ones. Keep in mind that for me, my the caloric ratio of protein:fats is 1:1. If I take in 1200 calories from protein (300g per day) then that means 1200 calories from fats as well (About 130g per day)

Ox
06-28-07, 8:20 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

C'mon.

stumblin54
06-28-07, 8:39 pm
Hey Evan.

Can we talk about anabolics?

Hey bro, get that shit outta here. Read the rules before posting anymore or you'll be banned.

Stumblin

Giant Killer
06-28-07, 10:29 pm
Evan, truly you are on the cover of the August MD? Can't wait for that one to hit the Quiktrip. (only place in town that sells MD) They still got the other one up with Ruhl on it...anyway, didn't you already have an MD cover this year? (Movin' on up, moooovin' on up...)

Hikeon3
06-28-07, 11:13 pm
I recuperate better on fats than on carbs. You must make sure you're consuming enough of them and the right ones. Keep in mind that for me, my the caloric ratio of protein:fats is 1:1. If I take in 1200 calories from protein (300g per day) then that means 1200 calories from fats as well (About 130g per day)

Is that a big "if"?

130g of fat seems low.

I ate 181g yesterday and im a much smaller guy than you. But I had 395g of protein.

So 1629 cals from fat and 1580 cals from protein. Then of course the 41g carbs mostly from the natty pb, eggs, and walnuts.

Ox
06-29-07, 12:27 am
Is that a big "if"?

130g of fat seems low.

I ate 181g yesterday and im a much smaller guy than you. But I had 395g of protein.

So 1629 cals from fat and 1580 cals from protein. Then of course the 41g carbs mostly from the natty pb, eggs, and walnuts.

It was just an example but pretty close to what I take in pre-contest. I really don't eat all that much.

Renegade223
06-29-07, 12:33 am
Ox,

whats up man.
i know you have mentioned before that you split legs into two days. so my questions are
1.what exercises do you do for quads?
2. what exercises do you do for hamstrings?
3. why do you split them into two days?

thanks man.

Toni69
06-29-07, 3:14 am
Ox,

whats up man.
i know you have mentioned before that you split legs into two days. so my questions are
1.what exercises do you do for quads?
2. what exercises do you do for hamstrings?
3. why do you split them into two days?

thanks man.


Good question since I struggle with legs as well..but I have my girl, NPC Chicka, killing me with a 4wk split right now; alternating quads and hams every other day for 4 wks. Yes Ox..please share a typical leg split with us. ;)

Ok, did I just sound like a cheerleader? 7th grade deja vu just now. I need to watch that! LOL

Aengus
06-29-07, 4:01 am
Good question since I struggle with legs as well..but I have my girl, NPC Chicka, killing me with a 4wk split right now; alternating quads and hams every other day for 4 wks. Yes Ox..please share a typical leg split with us. ;)

Ok, did I just sound like a cheerleader? 7th grade deja vu just now. I need to watch that! LOL

Animal Cheerleaders...that sounds scary for some reason...

Ox
06-29-07, 10:47 am
Ox,

whats up man.
i know you have mentioned before that you split legs into two days. so my questions are
1.what exercises do you do for quads?
2. what exercises do you do for hamstrings?
3. why do you split them into two days?

thanks man.

1.Pre-Exhaust with leg extentions: 3 sets of triple drops
Barbell Squat: 6 sets
Superset Walking Dumbell Lunges with Hack Squats: 3 sets
2.One leg standing leg curls x 4 sets
Superset Lying Leg Curls with Weighted Hyperextensions x 4 sets
Stiff leg Deadlifts x 4 sets
3. I split them into two days because A. If I did them together I'd be in the gym for two hours B. My lower back would be shot from deadlifting, sqautting, and doing hyperextensions all in the same day C. Depending on which one you train first, the second will get a less intense session.

brandonA
06-29-07, 11:34 am
Hey Ox,
How you doing today big guy? Congrats on the cover, that's awesome....Hey do you have a "cheat" meal during the week? like maybe an extra peice of chicken, or something like that, to keep the body from hitting starvation mode, or no worries?

Thanks

-B

Beowulf
06-29-07, 11:36 am
I am part of team MD and post under the staff and pro's section regularly. Make sure you check out the August issue of MD (which is out right now). Yours' Truly is on the Cover.

Congratulations Ox. Will pick up a copy for sure.

bigmack712004
06-29-07, 2:35 pm
Hey Ox,

You read the recent research done on this ancient herbal remedy from India. Supposedly not only does it help bone break recoveries and the immune system, also it appears to produce the anabolic state in humans. I was just curious as to if you had read this and what you thought about the study and the supplement in general.

Ox
06-29-07, 8:15 pm
Hey Ox,
How you doing today big guy? Congrats on the cover, that's awesome....Hey do you have a "cheat" meal during the week? like maybe an extra peice of chicken, or something like that, to keep the body from hitting starvation mode, or no worries?

Thanks

-B


When dieting I have one cheat meal per week. I always make this meal the last meal of the day and I have the meal the same day each week. Def. a good idea. For this meal I eat whatever I want.

Ox
06-29-07, 8:16 pm
Hey Ox,

You read the recent research done on this ancient herbal remedy from India. Supposedly not only does it help bone break recoveries and the immune system, also it appears to produce the anabolic state in humans. I was just curious as to if you had read this and what you thought about the study and the supplement in general.

I have not heard of it. I'll look into it.

Maccabee
06-29-07, 8:18 pm
Hey Ox, how often do you do deads?

Reacher34
06-29-07, 9:52 pm
Hey Ox... since this is my first post to you, let me say welcome to the brotherhood. I have a question for you (or anyone else who can educate me). I know the basics of post-workout shakes. Currently money is scarce, so Torrent isn't an option anymore. Until i can afford it again, I've been using whey protein and Universal's BCAA powder mixed in grape juice for the insulin spike. I know grape juice is a far cry from WMS, so is there another juice better suited for my purpose? Or should i go in another direction completely?

Also, I do 30 mins low-intensity cardio immediately after workouts. I've been taking my pwo shake after the cardio, and feel that i may be pushing that "anabolic window." Would a better option be taking it before the cardio and hoping all that juice isn't just sloshing in my stomach while I'm on the treadmill?

PS. Thanks for the advice about low-intensity cardio's BBing benefits over high-intensity a few pages back. I may have been wasting some muscle until i read that.

Ox
06-30-07, 1:51 am
Hey Ox, how often do you do deads?

Twice per week. Once for hams and once for back.

Ox
06-30-07, 1:54 am
Hey Ox... since this is my first post to you, let me say welcome to the brotherhood. I have a question for you (or anyone else who can educate me). I know the basics of post-workout shakes. Currently money is scarce, so Torrent isn't an option anymore. Until i can afford it again, I've been using whey protein and Universal's BCAA powder mixed in grape juice for the insulin spike. I know grape juice is a far cry from WMS, so is there another juice better suited for my purpose? Or should i go in another direction completely?

Also, I do 30 mins low-intensity cardio immediately after workouts. I've been taking my pwo shake after the cardio, and feel that i may be pushing that "anabolic window." Would a better option be taking it before the cardio and hoping all that juice isn't just sloshing in my stomach while I'm on the treadmill?

PS. Thanks for the advice about low-intensity cardio's BBing benefits over high-intensity a few pages back. I may have been wasting some muscle until i read that.

Because Grape juice contains fructose is isn't your most glycemic option. You can usually buy 10lb bags of pure dextrose for like $10 @ any sports supp. place or off the net. Use 50-60g of that instead of the grape juice. Definitely do not take your PWO stuff before cardio. All you'll do is refill your glycogen and then burn it w/out burning any fat. Continue to do what you are doing.

workoutfreakk
06-30-07, 1:53 pm
Yo Ox, when you posted your shoulder workout and leg workouts earlier it sounded as if those were "the" routines...meaning there isn't a whole lot of variation from those exersises. Are you a believer of always rotating your exercises from week to week, or do you find something that works and stick with it for quite a while?

Ox
06-30-07, 2:21 pm
Yo Ox, when you posted your shoulder workout and leg workouts earlier it sounded as if those were "the" routines...meaning there isn't a whole lot of variation from those exersises. Are you a believer of always rotating your exercises from week to week, or do you find something that works and stick with it for quite a while?

Whatever routine(s) I post are ones that I have found to be evry well rounded and work well for me. Each workout, somehting changes. I never have the same workout twice. But I do have routines that I use as a foundation and work in some variations. I do what I feel like doing. I don;t believe in following other peoples workouts. I give my body what I think it needs.

BigDaddy21
06-30-07, 4:43 pm
the man they call young gunZzzz!!!.. whats goin on. ur the talk of the town in bodybuilding bro, bigg inspiration man. i gotta ask ya what ya do for lagging bodyparts. #1 my legs, theyre not toothpicks but theyre not exactly "fat". your legs blew up the past couple comps. what did ya focus on, as in superset, ginat set, or just bust ur balls all damn day. and #2 arms, i like your skullcrusher theory brotha, gotta throw them in a tri w/o. but whats the word with arms in your eyes. ive been focuses on the mental part of lifting liek feeling the lift more than performing it yahno0 what i mean.
thanks man

Hikeon3
06-30-07, 4:57 pm
Yo Evan.

I was just wondering. I remember watching an interview you did for MD at the Nationals. In the interview there is a clip of you sitting with some guys at a pizza place. I was just wondering, since you were dieting for your show, is that an MRP sitting there by you? Or did you indulge in a slice of that amazing pie?

shockandawe
06-30-07, 6:15 pm
ox,

i was wondering how you transistion your diet from off season to pre contest. i know you diet down with zero carbs, but do gradually decrease the number of carbs or do you just go from your last day of off season diet with carbs to beginning pre contest dieting with no carbs,except those in your pb and veggies

Maccabee
06-30-07, 10:33 pm
Hey Ox, what would you do if your bones start cracking. Knees, elbows, wrists, and thats it I guess. What steps would you take? Some ppl said to use ice and previously I have used epsom salt. I think thats how you spell it.

Ox
07-01-07, 10:06 pm
the man they call young gunZzzz!!!.. whats goin on. ur the talk of the town in bodybuilding bro, bigg inspiration man. i gotta ask ya what ya do for lagging bodyparts. #1 my legs, theyre not toothpicks but theyre not exactly "fat". your legs blew up the past couple comps. what did ya focus on, as in superset, ginat set, or just bust ur balls all damn day. and #2 arms, i like your skullcrusher theory brotha, gotta throw them in a tri w/o. but whats the word with arms in your eyes. ive been focuses on the mental part of lifting liek feeling the lift more than performing it yahno0 what i mean.
thanks man

Thanks buddy I appreciate it. For my legs, I re-worked my squat and am using a wider stance and squatting from the hips rather than the knees. As for a routine, I just posted what I typically do if you look back a couple posts. Nothing too different from the rest of my body. As for arms, I think that they should be treated just like any other body part. Actually, they can handle a beating and repsond well to giant sets and super sets. There's always gotta be a solid mind-muscle connection when you train.

Ox
07-01-07, 10:08 pm
Yo Evan.

I was just wondering. I remember watching an interview you did for MD at the Nationals. In the interview there is a clip of you sitting with some guys at a pizza place. I was just wondering, since you were dieting for your show, is that an MRP sitting there by you? Or did you indulge in a slice of that amazing pie?

This clip was shot in a Gym in Miami called Iron Peoples Gym. Desmond and I were both there for a photo shoot and the phtographer ordered pizza for himslf and his assistant and whoever else wanted it. My girlfriend had a slice too. But as for me, I don't eat pizza whether it's off-season or not. I believe the Meal Replacement drink was mine.

Ox
07-01-07, 10:09 pm
ox,

i was wondering how you transistion your diet from off season to pre contest. i know you diet down with zero carbs, but do gradually decrease the number of carbs or do you just go from your last day of off season diet with carbs to beginning pre contest dieting with no carbs,except those in your pb and veggies

I just drop the carbs out cold turkey.

Ox
07-01-07, 10:17 pm
Hey Ox, what would you do if your bones start cracking. Knees, elbows, wrists, and thats it I guess. What steps would you take? Some ppl said to use ice and previously I have used epsom salt. I think thats how you spell it.

I don't knwo what I'd do if my bones were "cracking". That sounds painful! I've had joints crack before. There are a few precautions I take. First and foremost, I always stay well hydrated. If you're well hydrated your joints have more cushion and things are less brittle. Second, I use a good joint support formula. While glucosamine, chondroiton, and MSM form the base, it's important to have other things in the formula that will reduce inflamation and allow the area to heal. Joint Flex is pretty comprehensive because it's got a combo of boswelia, bromelain, ginger and a couple other natural anti-inflamatories to reduce inflammation and round out the formula. Other than these two things and a balanced diet I don't know what else to suggest. I have not heard of using epsom salt for this purpose. I have soaked in an epsom salt bath to relieve aches and muscle pain but as for your bones and or joints I'm not sure. Ice always helps to reduce inflamation like you said but I hate ice. The feel of it drives me nuts. If you don't mind it use it.

Maccabee
07-01-07, 10:33 pm
I don't knwo what I'd do if my bones were "cracking". That sounds painful! I've had joints crack before. There are a few precautions I take. First and foremost, I always stay well hydrated. If you're well hydrated your joints have more cushion and things are less brittle. Second, I use a good joint support formula. While glucosamine, chondroiton, and MSM form the base, it's important to have other things in the formula that will reduce inflamation and allow the area to heal. Joint Flex is pretty comprehensive because it's got a combo of boswelia, bromelain, ginger and a couple other natural anti-inflamatories to reduce inflammation and round out the formula. Other than these two things and a balanced diet I don't know what else to suggest. I have not heard of using epsom salt for this purpose. I have soaked in an epsom salt bath to relieve aches and muscle pain but as for your bones and or joints I'm not sure. Ice always helps to reduce inflamation like you said but I hate ice. The feel of it drives me nuts. If you don't mind it use it.

Thanks Ox I am going to get some joint supplement tomorrow. I asked BigAnt the same qeustion so I will take both of your advice. Thanks. Peace

7
07-02-07, 11:24 am
Hey Ox, not a training or diet question per se, but--what was it like when you know you were going to become a competitive bodybuilder? Was it a single, illuminating moment?

humanforklift
07-02-07, 11:28 am
Hey Ox, great to see you on here! I remember seeing you at GNC when I was just getting into the iron game as a kid...you were eating a huge roasted chicken! I'll never forget that man, it showed me an old maxim in this game that I didn't yet get at the time- to get big you gotta eat big. I was wondering about protein powders vs. whole foods. I see you take in powders for meals and I have been doing the same for a few weeks now. Instead of a whole food meal, I'll down a shake with about a cup of egg whites, 1/2 cup of skim milk, 1 scoop whey isolate, 1 scoop casein, and 2 tsps. natty pb. Should I limit these shakes and go back to whole foods for my meals? (other that pre/post workout shakes) Keep up the great work man.

BigDaddy21
07-02-07, 2:12 pm
sometimes i get bored when im not in the gym...so i pull up some bodybuilding sites or a pro site....guess whos i found bro lol. are u doing this yourself or do u have one of your "guys" (if you have guys) doing it. it looks pretty cool by the way. hurry it up evvv... jk brotha

Ox
07-02-07, 9:02 pm
Hey Ox, not a training or diet question per se, but--what was it like when you know you were going to become a competitive bodybuilder? Was it a single, illuminating moment?

Definitely not. Its something that you evolve into. I never just woke up one morning and decided I wanted to becomne a competitive bodybuilder. I started off with a goal of just being skinny when I was a fat teen and things developed from there. I remeber being fat when I was a kid and would have given anything to just be skinny or average. All I ver wanted was to be able to take my shirt off at the beach or the pool and not feel ashamed or embarassed. I think that if I had said to myslef that I wanted to get to the point I'm at right now and someone sat me down and told me all the things would need to do and sacrifice and all that was involved I don't think I would have even attempted it. But I had smaller goals and once I reached them i wasn't satisified and that would pish me to the next level and this repeated over and over and here I am; still not satisfied.

Ox
07-02-07, 9:09 pm
Hey Ox, great to see you on here! I remember seeing you at GNC when I was just getting into the iron game as a kid...you were eating a huge roasted chicken! I'll never forget that man, it showed me an old maxim in this game that I didn't yet get at the time- to get big you gotta eat big. I was wondering about protein powders vs. whole foods. I see you take in powders for meals and I have been doing the same for a few weeks now. Instead of a whole food meal, I'll down a shake with about a cup of egg whites, 1/2 cup of skim milk, 1 scoop whey isolate, 1 scoop casein, and 2 tsps. natty pb. Should I limit these shakes and go back to whole foods for my meals? (other that pre/post workout shakes) Keep up the great work man.

Holy shit! GNC. That was back in the day! Ahhh. High school :) If your askin me about gettin big, then yeah eat or drink whatever you can get your hands on. If you could eat 6-7 meals a diet each with ideal macronutrient profiles then I would tell you to knock yourself out. Actually I take that back, I would still tell you to have a couple shakes. Why? Because variety is the spice of life that's why. Right now, I do a whole food meal then a shake and continue that throughout the day. For me, this works well. How much chicken do your really need? Fuck I hate chicken. If you were gonna drink shakes all day long I'd tell you not to. Just don't ever have more shakes than whole food meals, that's my rule. And never go above 3 shakes a day. If you were doin 3 shakes and 3 whole food meals and wanted more meals I would say do the rest with whole foods. Thanks again for the post buddy. GNC. That's funny shit. I liked that job.

Ox
07-02-07, 9:12 pm
sometimes i get bored when im not in the gym...so i pull up some bodybuilding sites or a pro site....guess whos i found bro lol. are u doing this yourself or do u have one of your "guys" (if you have guys) doing it. it looks pretty cool by the way. hurry it up evvv... jk brotha

I know man I gotta move my ass. It's funny you wrote that post because I just told work today that I'm gonna take the rest of the week off to get togetehr the content for the site and get some shit up. I plan, once it's up and running, to have a shitload of training and nutrition video specials where you'll be able to stream videos of me talking about training, nutrition, contest prep etc. The camera will come with me to the gym, the grocery store, my kitchen etc. It's gonna be cool shit. I have some local guy workin on it. stay tuned.

Hikeon3
07-02-07, 9:23 pm
I know man I gotta move my ass. It's funny you wrote that post because I just told work today that I'm gonna take the rest of the week off to get togetehr the content for the site and get some shit up. I plan, once it's up and running, to have a shitload of training and nutrition video specials where you'll be able to stream videos of me talking about training, nutrition, contest prep etc. The camera will come with me to the gym, the grocery store, my kitchen etc. It's gonna be cool shit. I have some local guy workin on it. stay tuned.

That will be incredible. As far as I can tell from what I've read, my story is very similar to yours except I'm deciding to make changes much later in my life. To see how someone with a similar background as far as weight problems has changed and continues to change will be amazing. I would devour every second of those videos. ESPECIALLY you going to the grocery store, working in your kitchen, and hitting the gym.

Great ideas, all of them. All of your info is gold man. I, and I'm sure everyone else, really appreciates it all and can't wait to see/hear more.

Maharg
07-02-07, 10:30 pm
I know man I gotta move my ass. It's funny you wrote that post because I just told work today that I'm gonna take the rest of the week off to get togetehr the content for the site and get some shit up. I plan, once it's up and running, to have a shitload of training and nutrition video specials where you'll be able to stream videos of me talking about training, nutrition, contest prep etc. The camera will come with me to the gym, the grocery store, my kitchen etc. It's gonna be cool shit. I have some local guy workin on it. stay tuned.

I figure you in the grocery store is alot like when Markus goes in his vid. Everyone stares i bet. Sad that people in amazing shape gets stared at for being a freak but someone who is so heavy they use a rascal to get around doesnt even warrant a second glance.

And busting out a stay tuned? Are you secretly Universal Rep?

Ox
07-02-07, 11:05 pm
I figure you in the grocery store is alot like when Markus goes in his vid. Everyone stares i bet. Sad that people in amazing shape gets stared at for being a freak but someone who is so heavy they use a rascal to get around doesnt even warrant a second glance.

And busting out a stay tuned? Are you secretly Universal Rep?

What rep do you know responding to posts at 10:00 pm ? Wait till you guys see me in the grocery store. My grocery store is so gangster. Last week someone tried driving their car through the front of the store to rob it and smashed the whole front of the store. But they still have the freshest produce around. And I'm cool with everyone who works there. All the Mexican guys who work in the produce section refer to me as "El Grande". I love that store.

Maharg
07-02-07, 11:19 pm
What rep do you know responding to posts at 10:00 pm ? Wait till you guys see me in the grocery store. My grocery store is so gangster. Last week someone tried driving their car through the front of the store to rob it and smashed the whole front of the store. But they still have the freshest produce around. And I'm cool with everyone who works there. All the Mexican guys who work in the produce section refer to me as "El Grande". I love that store.

Nah its only 8 when i posted that and its just now 9:30 here.

Nice sounding store. nothing like having someone try and knock over the place while you are picking up the milk. I love the Ozarks, everyone has a conceal and carry and uses it. 1 person pulls a gun to rob a store the rest of the store pulls a gun on the robber. El Grande huh? You now have a super hero name.

hjayss
07-03-07, 8:12 am
I went to your website bro..I haad never seen you before had to know heard nothing but good shit about you..first thought was jaw dropped...your are unreal bro..great physique bro the abs man sick, sick, sick....all I can say is great job...you are really gonna do some even greater things in this sport...

Rhetoric
07-03-07, 2:39 pm
Hey Ox, I am about 2 weeks away from starting my first pre-contest diet and am leaning towards Palumbo's diet since you have experienced such good results and it seems we have similar bodytypes. I have a few questions though...
1. A friend who competes swears that because i am natural, the diet will cause me to lose too much muscle and that i won't have any energy. Although i value his opinion, there's no doubt in my mind that you are far more knowledgeable. What supplements would you recommend to combat these two factors while on this diet?
2. How does sodium factor into the diet? I realize i shouldn't go crazy with it, but what are the restrictions?
3. I am currently about 233 lbs and was planning on starting my diet at 2800 calories (1400 from protein, 1400 from healthy fats). Is this a good starting point?
Thanks for your help Evan. It is truly appreciated. Your willingness to help others is beyond commendable...

BigDaddy21
07-03-07, 3:00 pm
I know man I gotta move my ass. It's funny you wrote that post because I just told work today that I'm gonna take the rest of the week off to get togetehr the content for the site and get some shit up. I plan, once it's up and running, to have a shitload of training and nutrition video specials where you'll be able to stream videos of me talking about training, nutrition, contest prep etc. The camera will come with me to the gym, the grocery store, my kitchen etc. It's gonna be cool shit. I have some local guy workin on it. stay tuned.

thats gonna be cool shit bro. do u have to register for the site caus i saw the thing on the side for it so i did it cause i had nothing better to do yahno0. but for the video stuff ur sayin man, that i think will be the 1st time a bb did that which is cool as shit. you always see in BB vids like ronnie and dex the blade eating but they dont break it down, they just stuff their face. lookin forward to this. also nice cover and article...

Ox
07-03-07, 3:16 pm
Hey Ox, I am about 2 weeks away from starting my first pre-contest diet and am leaning towards Palumbo's diet since you have experienced such good results and it seems we have similar bodytypes. I have a few questions though...
1. A friend who competes swears that because i am natural, the diet will cause me to lose too much muscle and that i won't have any energy. Although i value his opinion, there's no doubt in my mind that you are far more knowledgeable. What supplements would you recommend to combat these two factors while on this diet?
2. How does sodium factor into the diet? I realize i shouldn't go crazy with it, but what are the restrictions?
3. I am currently about 233 lbs and was planning on starting my diet at 2800 calories (1400 from protein, 1400 from healthy fats). Is this a good starting point?
Thanks for your help Evan. It is truly appreciated. Your willingness to help others is beyond commendable...


1. Untrue. The diet will work the same for you. The same principles of fat loss apply to everyone.
2. You can have as mych sodium as you want. Soem people go very heavy on the dosium so that when sodium intake is restricted, your body will respond to it.
3. Those numbers are a little more than what I take in and I'm heavie than you. Unless you have a really fast metabolism I would knock it down to 1200 protein and 1200 fats.

Ox
07-03-07, 3:18 pm
thats gonna be cool shit bro. do u have to register for the site caus i saw the thing on the side for it so i did it cause i had nothing better to do yahno0. but for the video stuff ur sayin man, that i think will be the 1st time a bb did that which is cool as shit. you always see in BB vids like ronnie and dex the blade eating but they dont break it down, they just stuff their face. lookin forward to this. also nice cover and article...

Thanks buddy. There will be a public portion as well as a members section. The videos will be comprehensive and show and explain everything.

Rhetoric
07-03-07, 7:26 pm
1. Untrue. The diet will work the same for you. The same principles of fat loss apply to everyone.
2. You can have as mych sodium as you want. Soem people go very heavy on the dosium so that when sodium intake is restricted, your body will respond to it.
3. Those numbers are a little more than what I take in and I'm heavie than you. Unless you have a really fast metabolism I would knock it down to 1200 protein and 1200 fats.

Thanks for the fast response Evan. You have me convinced that this is the way to go... are there any specific protein powders and/or supplements that you have found work particularly well for this diet? As always, thank you for your advice.

Ox
07-03-07, 9:02 pm
Thanks for the fast response Evan. You have me convinced that this is the way to go... are there any specific protein powders and/or supplements that you have found work particularly well for this diet? As always, thank you for your advice.

Animal Pak for a solid multi. Specialized Protein for dieting. Animal Nitro and or BCAAs for when you get to the last 5 weeks of dieting. A good fish oil supplement. GH Max is a good supp to help boost natural GH to help tighten you up. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

Torque757
07-03-07, 10:51 pm
Im thinking of splitting my leg training in two again, a day for quads and one for hams. I am having trouble finding a good variety of lifts as my current gym has onle seated ham curl, to compliment my sldl's. Any ideas?

TufffGuY
07-04-07, 12:58 am
Im thinking of splitting my leg training in two again, a day for quads and one for hams. I am having trouble finding a good variety of lifts as my current gym has onle seated ham curl, to compliment my sldl's. Any ideas?

hyper extensions, DB SLDL, glute ham raises?

YOUNG_BB
07-04-07, 1:08 am
Evan had 20" arms as a senior in high school and has brought them all the way up to 23" since then.

is this true?

brandonA
07-04-07, 1:12 am
I have been wrapping my mind around this and think that I have it figured out..maybe...So when I asked about a cheat meal, you said that you eat what ever you want...I am assuming (I know, bad word) that this means no carbs....I was figuring that I would just eat a larger than normal meal and try to keep the body running on keystones and off the carbs...Is my thinking off base?...Thanks Bro..

-B

Ox
07-04-07, 12:49 pm
Evan had 20" arms as a senior in high school and has brought them all the way up to 23" since then.

is this true?

No. In high school my arms were closer to 18". Right now they are about 23"

Ox
07-04-07, 12:52 pm
I have been wrapping my mind around this and think that I have it figured out..maybe...So when I asked about a cheat meal, you said that you eat what ever you want...I am assuming (I know, bad word) that this means no carbs....I was figuring that I would just eat a larger than normal meal and try to keep the body running on keystones and off the carbs...Is my thinking off base?...Thanks Bro..

-B

Actually, on my cheat meal I have a significant amount of carbs. The purpose is to shock the body by eating ALL the things you don'y usually eat. Pigging out on sushi (sashimi and white rice) and then having desert after is an excellent cheat meal. I have also found 6 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 bananas and 1 tbsp coconut oil to be a good cheat meal also.

Madcat
07-04-07, 1:18 pm
Ox,
Your Q&A session in M.D. was incredible. You were very humble in your answers and gave solid answers. It is just such an honor to know you have joined our Pak.

Thanks again, and this section is incredible.

Grond Al-Ghoul
07-04-07, 1:50 pm
Actually, on my cheat meal I have a significant amount of carbs. The purpose is to shock the body by eating ALL the things you don'y usually eat. Pigging out on sushi (sashimi and white rice) and then having desert after is an excellent cheat meal. I have also found 6 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 bananas and 1 tbsp coconut oil to be a good cheat meal also.

So are you saying carbs in a cheat meal during bulk phase carbs are ok? Or on the keto-diet, the cheat meal can have carbs? Ive followed this thread since day one and it seems that ANY carbs period during the diet would be detrimental to staying in ketosis during diet phase. (scratching my head...)

Ox
07-04-07, 7:04 pm
So are you saying carbs in a cheat meal during bulk phase carbs are ok? Or on the keto-diet, the cheat meal can have carbs? Ive followed this thread since day one and it seems that ANY carbs period during the diet would be detrimental to staying in ketosis during diet phase. (scratching my head...)

Carbs are fine during the offseason. When dieting, the only time carbs are appropriate are during your once per week cheat meal. During this meal, knock yourself out; have as many carbs as you want. You need this cheat because without it your metabolism will turn to shit.

brandonA
07-04-07, 7:08 pm
Carbs are fine during the offseason. When dieting, the only time carbs are appropriate are during your once per week cheat meal. During this meal, knock yourself out; have as many carbs as you want. You need this cheat because without it your metabolism will turn to shit.


Thanks for clearing that up bro..new to this..

-B

humanforklift
07-04-07, 7:11 pm
Just wanted to let you know that you are a legend at your old gym man! I've been training at Sacred Heart for about 5 years now and love it because I can yell and chalk up for my big lifts. Of course, I'm not talking to anyone while I'm doing work but after I might talk nutrition with Adrian or Jay. We are all proud of you man. Adrian told me the other day that if I want to compete I need to be as meticulous with my diet as someone like Evan! Congratulations on all the success

Ox
07-05-07, 1:43 pm
Just wanted to let you know that you are a legend at your old gym man! I've been training at Sacred Heart for about 5 years now and love it because I can yell and chalk up for my big lifts. Of course, I'm not talking to anyone while I'm doing work but after I might talk nutrition with Adrian or Jay. We are all proud of you man. Adrian told me the other day that if I want to compete I need to be as meticulous with my diet as someone like Evan! Congratulations on all the success

A legend? Really? Yeah man Sacred Heart gym was good. Coach Reho is a solid dude. I liked it there, nobody really ever bothered you. Jay is my boy. Adrian is an awesome guy. Tell Adrian I said hello when you see him. And if you talk to coach Reho tell him too. Thanks bro. Keep hammerin away.

Rhetoric
07-05-07, 2:23 pm
Animal Pak for a solid multi. Specialized Protein for dieting. Animal Nitro and or BCAAs for when you get to the last 5 weeks of dieting. A good fish oil supplement. GH Max is a good supp to help boost natural GH to help tighten you up. Anything else is just icing on the cake.

Awesome, thanks for the suggestions. Now I have a checklist for that last big supplement order before "taking the plunge" into my diet. I am planning on dieting for 20 weeks since this is my first show and my bodyfat is probably around 15%, but I've read that a lot of people who use this diet do so for about 16 weeks. Will the extra 4 weeks hurt me? As always, thank you.

Ox
07-05-07, 3:28 pm
Awesome, thanks for the suggestions. Now I have a checklist for that last big supplement order before "taking the plunge" into my diet. I am planning on dieting for 20 weeks since this is my first show and my bodyfat is probably around 15%, but I've read that a lot of people who use this diet do so for about 16 weeks. Will the extra 4 weeks hurt me? As always, thank you.

What I would do if you are going to start this far out is keep carbs in your diet until 16 weeks out but keep everyhting very clean and structured as if you were dieting. No cheat meal until 11 weeks out. Once your diet is rolling, I would throw some animal cuts in there at about 8 weeks out.

Grond Al-Ghoul
07-05-07, 5:36 pm
Ox...

from my understanding, pre-breakfast cardio in most cases is good because youre burning glycogen and then stored fat by the end of the session. With this keto-diet, since glycogen should be thoroughly depleted already, is pre-1st meal cardio still as crucial/effective as when youre having carbs, or is any time throughout the day just as effective since your glycogen should be depleted?

COLE
07-05-07, 6:31 pm
Ox, First let me thank you for taking time to respond to all of our questions.

I think if we had more bodybuilders that have been through the trenches old and new to help us new comers out like you and the other guys have here then we would see the sport grow more. Not to often you find someone willing to share all there hard earned tried and a true secrets and knowledge for free.

You say your arms were around 18" in High School and now they are 23". I read this in MD talking about your arm workout. I have tried so many things and just cant seem to get my arms to grow. High reps, low reps, super sets, drop sets. I just don't get it no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to make them grow. Now I have only been training for about 2 years but I feel I should have had better gains as far as arm size in that time period. They never even get sore when I train and I train them hard. I do always get an awsome pump look big as hell when I finish. Very frustrating.


What would you say was the main routine you used to really get your arms to respond? What would you suggest I try?

MassMonster
07-05-07, 6:55 pm
i kno i may be a lil late on dis 1.... but i was looking over evan's MD article.. and they nicknamed u tsunami? Ox is a way betta nickname than tsunami.... sounds too.... how should i say this.... skinny surfer dudeish

bharatoza
07-06-07, 12:10 am
For how long should a person follow the zero carb-high fat diet? I'm not competing but looking to get shed off the fat I've added during my bulking phase. I've already dropped about 20lbs in 16 weeks. Should I stick to it till my abs start to show or should I stop after 4 more weeks?

Really appreciate your time and advice.

Ox
07-06-07, 10:53 am
Ox...

from my understanding, pre-breakfast cardio in most cases is good because youre burning glycogen and then stored fat by the end of the session. With this keto-diet, since glycogen should be thoroughly depleted already, is pre-1st meal cardio still as crucial/effective as when youre having carbs, or is any time throughout the day just as effective since your glycogen should be depleted?

I prefer pre-breakfast cardio. I feel like it kickstarts my metabolism for the day. Once I get over 45 min per day I split it and do half in the a.m. and half pwo.

Toni69
07-06-07, 2:12 pm
Hello there,

Was just wondering what is your ultimate cheat, or if you even have one? The one thing that you have to have as a cheat snack or meal or whatever..what is it? Its def ice cream for me..and cake is a close second. Ice cream is my true weakness...I cant be left alone with ice cream ever!!!

Hikeon3
07-06-07, 2:51 pm
Hello there,

Was just wondering what is your ultimate cheat, or if you even have one? The one thing that you have to have as a cheat snack or meal or whatever..what is it? Its def ice cream for me..and cake is a close second. Ice cream is my true weakness...I cant be left alone with ice cream ever!!!

A bag of tortilla chips and some good, chunky salsa. I will empty that bag and go looking for another one. I love that stuff.

Toni69
07-06-07, 4:26 pm
A bag of tortilla chips and some good, chunky salsa. I will empty that bag and go looking for another one. I love that stuff.

Hey! I was asking Ox! LOL...but I can get down with the tortilla chips and salsa. I like the ones they serve in Chili's. I hate the food there..but I love those chips! If I went there with friends, I would have just those chips and salsa and a margarita...back in the day of course. I dont eat chips anymore.

Ox...your up!

Hikeon3
07-06-07, 5:30 pm
Hey! I was asking Ox! LOL...but I can get down with the tortilla chips and salsa. I like the ones they serve in Chili's. I hate the food there..but I love those chips! If I went there with friends, I would have just those chips and salsa and a margarita...back in the day of course. I dont eat chips anymore.

Ox...your up!

I know I aint swole like big ol' Evan, but I demand to be heard! lol. Yeah. restaurant chips are always good. Nice and warm and crispy... my oh my...

Aengus
07-07-07, 5:45 am
Hey! I was asking Ox! LOL...but I can get down with the tortilla chips and salsa. I like the ones they serve in Chili's. I hate the food there..but I love those chips! If I went there with friends, I would have just those chips and salsa and a margarita...back in the day of course. I dont eat chips anymore.

Ox...your up!

not to hijack the thread, but the margarita chicken breast with broccoli is pretty solid.

Ox
07-07-07, 10:51 am
Ox, First let me thank you for taking time to respond to all of our questions.

I think if we had more bodybuilders that have been through the trenches old and new to help us new comers out like you and the other guys have here then we would see the sport grow more. Not to often you find someone willing to share all there hard earned tried and a true secrets and knowledge for free.

You say your arms were around 18" in High School and now they are 23". I read this in MD talking about your arm workout. I have tried so many things and just cant seem to get my arms to grow. High reps, low reps, super sets, drop sets. I just don't get it no matter what I do it just doesn't seem to make them grow. Now I have only been training for about 2 years but I feel I should have had better gains as far as arm size in that time period. They never even get sore when I train and I train them hard. I do always get an awsome pump look big as hell when I finish. Very frustrating.


What would you say was the main routine you used to really get your arms to respond? What would you suggest I try?

I will be honest and tell you that my arms have always grown with ease. At this point in my training, I only train them every other week and they still seem to grow. That being said, I don't know that I'm the best guy to ask. But I will give my suggestion anyway. When I first started I got great results by splitting up my bi and tri routines to dedicate more attention to each. You mention that you have tried pretty much everythingl The only thing I would say to try is maybe squeeze the muscle more and focus on the contraction. My arms always grew from moving high weight and just getting the weight up. Maybe this doesn't work for everyone. All you can do is try a variety of things and iut sounds like that's what you have done. Try and be creative.

Ox
07-07-07, 10:53 am
i kno i may be a lil late on dis 1.... but i was looking over evan's MD article.. and they nicknamed u tsunami? Ox is a way betta nickname than tsunami.... sounds too.... how should i say this.... skinny surfer dudeish

If you read the article you'll see that I really don;t care for the nickname either. It fit the context of the article but I don't feel the name really says much about me. I agree with you though it sounds kind of twerpy.

Ox
07-07-07, 10:54 am
For how long should a person follow the zero carb-high fat diet? I'm not competing but looking to get shed off the fat I've added during my bulking phase. I've already dropped about 20lbs in 16 weeks. Should I stick to it till my abs start to show or should I stop after 4 more weeks?

Really appreciate your time and advice.

Have you been going zero carb for 16 weeks? If you have been and still do not have abs I would starte eliminating the fats. Three days with no fats and then one day with.

Ox
07-07-07, 10:58 am
Hello there,

Was just wondering what is your ultimate cheat, or if you even have one? The one thing that you have to have as a cheat snack or meal or whatever..what is it? Its def ice cream for me..and cake is a close second. Ice cream is my true weakness...I cant be left alone with ice cream ever!!!

My ultimate cheat meal is one that is both satisfying and functional. This one works well for me:
6 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 bananas, 1 tbsp coconut oil
I also like to pig out on susi and load up on white rice.
I like a cheat meal that will shock my body and load me up with carbs but one that is clean and won't make me feel like shit. I love ice cream but after dieting for so long and not having dairy it fucks my stomach up big time.

Giant Killer
07-07-07, 2:03 pm
In high school my arms were closer to 18". Right now they are about 23"

Were they 18" still carrying a lot of bodyfat, or is that after you got "in shape"?

Toni69
07-07-07, 3:57 pm
My ultimate cheat meal is one that is both satisfying and functional. This one works well for me:
6 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 2 bananas, 1 tbsp coconut oil
I also like to pig out on susi and load up on white rice.
I like a cheat meal that will shock my body and load me up with carbs but one that is clean and won't make me feel like shit. I love ice cream but after dieting for so long and not having dairy it fucks my stomach up big time.

Coconut oil huh? I saw you mentioned this before someplace here. Any particular type or brand you buy? I would have to try to find this locally since they dont have it on the bases.

You know, when I go for sushi...I only eat the tops. I dont ever touch the white rice! I do admit I love oats..Im addicted to them.
I used to do a bowl of chopped banana with spoonfuls of peanut butter and sit and watch my favorite tv show. This is another pastime cheat of mine...havent done it in a while though. Dieting for 3 shows now has caused me to lose my taste for many things I used to love..like chocolate. I dont miss chocolate anymore...I dont feel I have to have it..you know? Now, a cheat is a bowl of oats with bananas and chopped almonds after 8pm and I love it! LOL

bharatoza
07-07-07, 4:05 pm
Have you been going zero carb for 16 weeks? If you have been and still do not have abs I would starte eliminating the fats. Three days with no fats and then one day with.

Sorry I should have mentioned it before. I was carb cycling (zero-low-medium-high carb days) for about 14 weeks. This is just the 3rd week on the zero carb-high fat diet. I'm throwing in CUTS from next week.

Liftbig21
07-07-07, 5:43 pm
Ox whats up buddy?..My question to you is i have a fast metabolisim so im not putting on mass as fast as id like to..Do you have any recommendations on what or how much i should eat a day that will put on mass?...and do you still live in CT and train at golds in new haven? itd be sick to train with you there...thanks bro

SomeDayI'llBeXL
07-08-07, 9:42 pm
Ya I know, Im way behind on welcoming you to this thread, had to cancel my internet for a bit. (had to cut some cost to buy my house) Anyways, welcome aboard OX. I love MD and read it religiously, and I was very impressed with your most rescent article. You seem like a very down to earth, approachable person and thats what we need right now in this sport we all love.

One thing that really impressed me was that you are able to maintain a relationship with someone who is basically outside the gym/bodybuilding world. I think it shows alot about a person when they can be surrounded by fucking drop dead gorgeous woman, but yet they still have the control to go home to their number one. We are damn lucky to have someone such as yourself representing the company we all love and rely on....On behalf of the Animal Family, welcome....Its a great second family.


(again, late as hell, my bad)


Good Luck Brothers

Ox
07-08-07, 11:10 pm
Were they 18" still carrying a lot of bodyfat, or is that after you got "in shape"?

18 in good shape.