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G Diesel
07-10-07, 1:03 pm
Yo fellas... Wanted to give you guys a heads up on a couple of products that I've been experimenting with lately--Beta Alanine and Arachidonic Acid (AA).

Beta Alanine has been purported to help with endurance and strength, helping you add reps and sets to your heavy workouts. It is supposed to take weeks for you to begin to feel the full effects. The only thing I've noticed thus far is that it causes me to feel awake and alive and it gives a dramatic tingling/flushing effect that makes you want to tear the gym apart.

AA has been touted to increase the inflammatory effects of weight training, causing more muscle damage and in turn increasing the potential for growth and hypertrophy. AA has also been documented to increase androgen receptor sensitivity and works as something of a anabolic amplifier.

As I progress with this stuff and have more feedback, I'll fill you cats in... Definitely excited about finding new means of pushing the envelope and sparking new gains through the use of OTC supps. Peace, G

Punisher
07-10-07, 1:09 pm
Yo G I have been supplementing with Beta alanine recently and i love its effects.

i have heard about it before but never thought about trying it until a friend of a freind who is an MD who does a lot of studies with sports nutrition and its application to the medical community turned me onto it. He said it was some really promising stuff backed by a lot of studies. so I am testing it out and so far so good, I love the flushing tingling effect like you said it makes you wanna tear up the weightss like an Animal. i will keep you posted on my progress as well.

ghost
07-10-07, 1:10 pm
this sounds awesome.! definitely keep us updated G!

rev8ball
07-10-07, 1:14 pm
Just got some more research info on BA from a sports nutrition convention - cool stuff! Its functional pathways sound very promising; I was thinking of experimenting with it myself.

Keep us updated......

BigAnt
07-10-07, 3:26 pm
Yo G I have been supplementing with Beta alanine recently and i love its effects.

i have heard about it before but never thought about trying it until a friend of a freind who is an MD who does a lot of studies with sports nutrition and its application to the medical community turned me onto it. He said it was some really promising stuff backed by a lot of studies. so I am testing it out and so far so good, I love the flushing tingling effect like you said it makes you wanna tear up the weightss like an Animal. i will keep you posted on my progress as well.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Beta-Alanine…this is an amino acid produced naturally in the body and found in foods such as chicken and fish. Beta-Alanine once it enters into the metabolic pathway in your body it produces another biochemical called Carnosine.

Carnosine is a powerful buffering agent. It has the ability to neutralize lactic acid build-up in your muscles. The build-up of lactic acid in muscles is one of the main limiting factors in muscular performance.

AND GUESS WHAT HAS Beta Alanine in it....SHOCK THERAPY

---TAKE PRE-WORKOUT---

J-Dawg
07-10-07, 3:41 pm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Beta-Alanine…this is an amino acid produced naturally in the body and found in foods such as chicken and fish. Beta-Alanine once it enters into the metabolic pathway in your body it produces another biochemical called Carnosine.

Carnosine is a powerful buffering agent. It has the ability to neutralize lactic acid build-up in your muscles. The build-up of lactic acid in muscles is one of the main limiting factors in muscular performance.

AND GUESS WHAT HAS Beta Alanine in it....SHOCK THERAPY

---TAKE PRE-WORKOUT---

Good call Big Ant.
Both Shock Therapy and Storm have beta alanine.

Punisher
07-10-07, 3:52 pm
Good call Big Ant.
Both Shock Therapy and Storm have beta alanine.
I know this but I wanted too see how it worked by itself becuse I already know storm and shock are both reallllyyyyy great products

Space Cowboy
07-10-07, 4:32 pm
Feel nothing of the sort when using SHOCK/STORM. But there other advantages keep me comin back, excellent products.


Could BA & AA be integral parts of the new Animal product being mooted? To steal a well known phrase.......... "Stay Tuned!".


EASI

G Diesel
07-16-07, 1:12 pm
I'm starting to dig the Beta Alanine thus far... I've been using 5g of it preworkout with Pump and 25mg of ephedrine and then another 3-4g in my Torrent w/ 10g glutamine postworkout. I've definitely noticed better pumps and more endurance and my strength is on the rise. I trained 5 days this past week instead of my usual 4 day split and my performance hasn't suffered at all. I'll fill ya in with more info as things progress. Peace, G

brandonA
07-16-07, 1:22 pm
I'm starting to dig the Beta Alanine thus far... I've been using 5g of it preworkout with Pump and 25mg of ephedrine and then another 3-4g in my Torrent w/ 10g glutamine postworkout. I've definitely noticed better pumps and more endurance and my strength is on the rise. I trained 5 days this past week instead of my usual 4 day split and my performance hasn't suffered at all. I'll fill ya in with more info as things progress. Peace, G

Another mad chemist...thanks for the info bro, sounds like some good stuff...

-B

Spikes079
07-16-07, 1:55 pm
Hate to mention other company's not trying to promote here just wondering. Isn't Arachidonic Acid in Gaspari's Halodrol Liquid gels?

rev8ball
07-16-07, 3:03 pm
Feel nothing of the sort when using SHOCK/STORM. But there other advantages keep me comin back, excellent products.


Could BA & AA be integral parts of the new Animal product being mooted? To steal a well known phrase.......... "Stay Tuned!".


EASI

Don't worry, SC. Getting the tingles does not mean the product is working or not; not everyone feels them.

gsb239
07-16-07, 4:02 pm
Hate to mention other company's not trying to promote here just wondering. Isn't Arachidonic Acid in Gaspari's Halodrol Liquid gels?

i believe so

Spikes079
07-16-07, 4:07 pm
Hate to mention other company's not trying to promote here just wondering. Isn't Arachidonic Acid in Gaspari's Halodrol Liquid gels?

I just looked it up and it does. Just wondering where I heard it before

Giant Killer
07-16-07, 7:23 pm
Keep us updated G. I'm curious about these products, especially if a big dawg like yourself feels it's use is valid.

Macrobolic
07-17-07, 1:37 am
Yo fellas... Wanted to give you guys a heads up on a couple of products that I've been experimenting with lately--Beta Alanine and Arachidonic Acid (AA).

Beta Alanine has been purported to help with endurance and strength, helping you add reps and sets to your heavy workouts. It is supposed to take weeks for you to begin to feel the full effects. The only thing I've noticed thus far is that it causes me to feel awake and alive and it gives a dramatic tingling/flushing effect that makes you want to tear the gym apart.

AA has been touted to increase the inflammatory effects of weight training, causing more muscle damage and in turn increasing the potential for growth and hypertrophy. AA has also been documented to increase androgen receptor sensitivity and works as something of a anabolic amplifier.

As I progress with this stuff and have more feedback, I'll fill you cats in... Definitely excited about finding new means of pushing the envelope and sparking new gains through the use of OTC supps. Peace, G

I have also tried both of those and both work well in my opinion.

The beta alanine I mix with my creatine (well it came pre-mixed) and the AA I have tried with 2 different supplements. They can cause some serious DOMS and some head pressure, but strength gains were well worth it.

Macrobolic
07-17-07, 1:38 am
Hate to mention other company's not trying to promote here just wondering. Isn't Arachidonic Acid in Gaspari's Halodrol Liquid gels?

yes, also in Molecular Nutrition's X-factor. I have taken both, and liked both although I will soon lack the funds to buy them for awhile. But if you can afford them, by all means try them.

Just remember not to supplement with any extra omega-3 fatty acids as that can reduce the effectiveness of the AA.

gsb239
07-17-07, 11:58 am
Just remember not to supplement with any extra omega-3 fatty acids as that can reduce the effectiveness of the AA.


Do you know why? I can't rmember which omega fat specifically, but isn't it a precursor to AA? Or are all omega fats precursors to AA?

Macrobolic
07-17-07, 12:36 pm
Do you know why? I can't rmember which omega fat specifically, but isn't it a precursor to AA? Or are all omega fats precursors to AA?

It's because the AA causes an inflammatory reaction in the body. This is supposed to send a signal to repair and will cause a growth response (I'm not saying this very well, but I'm tired). Omega-3 fatty acids do the exact opposite. They will reduce an inflammatory response within the body, and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the AA. I'll post some more reasoning with better wording later on.

ncsu06
07-17-07, 6:58 pm
I have supplemented both Beta-Alanine and Arachodonic Acid.....both are very good supplements...i can't say enough about the Beta-alanine...especially being and endurance athlete this stuff truly helped with my muscle endurance and my cardio sessions.....its really good b/c it just causes an excess of a natural process in the body to help rise the carnosine levels making it completely safe...i give BA two thumbs up.....

AA is also a very quality product...i started using an AA supplement to get my strength up in the off season....yet again another quality product...great strength gains and it also supposedly helps with fat loss as well but i didn't see much of that...but i didn't gain much bodyfat during my bulk so that could be a sign....the only downside is that there is potential for negative side affects but at proper dosage and for a no longer than 50 days it is completely safe....from my knowledge so safety studies have been done for longer than 50 days....another downside is who have to watch intake of Omega 3's and NSAID's....for they can inhibit the AA from working at full strength...but overall AA really helped me gain soem great strength over the past couple of months...another great product


Overall in my opinion both products are quality...i def. suggest people give them a try...speaking off the new Animal product it would be great if it had BA or AA in it...good luck brothers

Macrobolic
07-18-07, 1:20 am
It's because the AA causes an inflammatory reaction in the body. This is supposed to send a signal to repair and will cause a growth response (I'm not saying this very well, but I'm tired). Omega-3 fatty acids do the exact opposite. They will reduce an inflammatory response within the body, and therefore reduce the effectiveness of the AA. I'll post some more reasoning with better wording later on.

Ok, I'm back. This comes from William Llewellyn's book, "Anabolics 2006" (p. 257-258). He is the pioneer of bringing the AA loading concept to the supplement industry.


AA is the body's core "anabolic fat". More specifically, it is an omega-6 fatty acid that serves as the principle building block for the syntesis of dienolic prostaglandins (PGE2 and PGF2). These prostaglandins are integral to protein turnover and muscle accumulation...

...AA release serves as the main thermostat for prostaglandin turnover in skeletal muscle tissue, and as such is responsible for initiating many of the immediate biochemical changes during resistance exercise that will ultimately produce muscle hypertrophy.

However, he also warns,

That is not to say there are no risks with the high-dose (750-1000mg daily) loading and cycling of AA. This is a 'pro-inflammatory" supplement, and needs to be respected as such. To begin with, if you suffer from injury or inflammatory disease, the higher levels of AA may exacerbate related symptoms. An individual with arthritis, for example, may notice more joint pain while loading this supplement. It is not damaging the joints, but simply amplifying the pain signals induced by prostaglandins.

Bob
07-19-07, 9:49 am
Man, I've heard a lot of good stuff on this AA. This beta alanine is new to me. I'm going to have to research it.
Is the beta alanine in any Universal products?

TheNaturalG
08-03-07, 3:20 pm
I just wanna add that I started Beta Alanine this week and gotta say my last 3 workouts have been above average. Each set you honestly get a little less burn and can get out a extra rep or 2. I have been taking 3 grams pre and post workout with my shakes.

Beowulf
08-03-07, 4:11 pm
Hey G, any updates?

gsb239
08-03-07, 4:20 pm
Man, I've heard a lot of good stuff on this AA. This beta alanine is new to me. I'm going to have to research it.
Is the beta alanine in any Universal products?

Most creatine/NO products contain it. There's some in Shock Therapy and Storm. Animal Pump doesn't seem to have it for some reason.

Macrobolic
08-14-07, 10:32 pm
Thought I would bump this back up and see if G has any updates with progress, etc.

adidas
08-14-07, 10:48 pm
12 whole eggs ED = 800+mg of AA
thats how i get mine.
has helped me tons.

G Diesel
08-16-07, 1:18 pm
So far, I've gotta say this...

Beta Alanine is going to be a steady part of my supplement regimen. Using it along with creatine is a safe and effective means of adding reps to your sets and to ensure extra endurance late in a workout when you need it the most. Still trying to determine its effects on overall strength, but it is definitely a supp I feel good about, plus I love the "tingly" feeling it provides which makes you feel very much "alive".

As for AA, I have noticed that I'm definitely sore while using it. I can't say whether or not I'm growing while on it, because I haven't used it all that long, but it should be interesting to see how my bodyweight and strength progress once I've used it for 3-4 weeks or more. Will keep ya updated. Peace, G

Beowulf
08-16-07, 2:02 pm
12 whole eggs ED = 800+mg of AA
thats how i get mine.
has helped me tons.

I guess it's like creatine. You can get enough if you eat enough red meat and fish. But the supplement is still really popular.

Macrobolic
08-16-07, 7:33 pm
I guess it's like creatine. You can get enough if you eat enough red meat and fish. But the supplement is still really popular.

1 pound of cooked lean beef gets you about 1 gram of creatine, so you'd have to get 5 pounds to get the same benefits as creatine supplementation. That's a lot of meat everyday!

V23
08-17-07, 4:22 pm
Arachidonic Acid sounds very promising for muscle growth, and I've heard
on other forums about people gaining 5 to 10 lbs of lean
muscle.

The only think I worry about is the fact that they are causing
systemic (not local) inflammation. Inflammation has now been proven to causing athersclerosis, heart disease, and stroke.

I was interested in trying it before, but my fears of systemic
inflammation always worried me. Especially as other products
with AA have recommended to eliminate all anti - inflammatory
products from your diet, like fatty fish.

Maybe someone can shed some light on this. I know how the AA
acid pathway is initiated and all the steps and effects, but what
would the outcome of supplementation do. And what are the risks?

Macrobolic
08-18-07, 8:09 pm
...Maybe someone can shed some light on this. I know how the AA
acid pathway is initiated and all the steps and effects, but what
would the outcome of supplementation do. And what are the risks?

The outcome should be greater increases in mucle gain, and possible fat loss. The AA amplifies the signal for muscle repair (among other inflammatory responses) so there should be greater repair rates in the muscle.

But you do risk having much more soreness from workouts and an increased incidence of headaches (which has been a common side effect I've seen from AA supplementation logs). If you cycle the supplement, then the inflammatory responses shouldn't affect long term risk of heart disease, stroke, etc. However, that is assuming you are in a low risk group for these diseases.

naturalguy
08-21-07, 7:21 am
Most creatine/NO products contain it. There's some in Shock Therapy and Storm. Animal Pump doesn't seem to have it for some reason.

Animal Pump contains carnosine

squattingtillipuke
09-13-07, 8:07 am
I read a document out of one of my wife's nursing journals about AA and it was talking about this product pretty in depth. The one question that it posed for our use is this...AA is found abundantly in Red Meat fats, and is also easily spread through the body during consumption, so if you are getting enough red meat in your diet you shouldn't need supplementation. Of course as with many supplements our lifestyles indeed need extra nurtients over the "normal" individual.

Anyone else seen anything on this subject?

G Diesel
09-13-07, 8:10 am
I read a document out of one of my wife's nursing journals about AA and it was talking about this product pretty in depth. The one question that it posed for our use is this...AA is found abundantly in Red Meat fats, and is also easily spread through the body during consumption, so if you are getting enough red meat in your diet you shouldn't need supplementation. Of course as with many supplements our lifestyles indeed need extra nurtients over the "normal" individual.

Anyone else seen anything on this subject?

Right... In theory, the same could be said of creatine being "abundant" in red meat. That said, none of us are eating the lbs upon lbs each day that would be necessary te get just a 5g serving of creatine. These are the situations where supplementation is critical. Peace, G

Texas Titan
09-13-07, 9:32 am
Hey G, I noticed you mentioned that you take 5g of Beta Alanine before workout and 5g after in your Torrent. A couple questions:

-When you first started using BA did you start with just a couple grams or did you start with the full 5g?

-Have you tried adding the BA to "Big Ant's Workout Drink"?

I just got some bulk BA and was thinking of adding it to my BCAA, glutamine, gatorade, Storm mix that I drink pre-workout and during workout.

Thanks Bro!

G Diesel
09-13-07, 9:51 am
Hey G, I noticed you mentioned that you take 5g of Beta Alanine before workout and 5g after in your Torrent. A couple questions:

-When you first started using BA did you start with just a couple grams or did you start with the full 5g?

-Have you tried adding the BA to "Big Ant's Workout Drink"?

I just got some bulk BA and was thinking of adding it to my BCAA, glutamine, gatorade, Storm mix that I drink pre-workout and during workout.

Thanks Bro!

I've made many pre and intra workout mixtures over the years... I haven't tried Ant's drink cuz I recently have just been drinking water while I train with Pump and M-Stak pre and Torrent/glutamine/BA post. If splitting the BA up, I'd do 3g both pre and post. If you're gonna take it all at once, I'd go with 5-6g immediately pre or post. Should be a perfect addition to Ant's awesome recipe. Peace, G

Spikes079
09-13-07, 12:13 pm
I've been using AA for about 2 and half weeks now and I've noticed some pretty decent gains so far, I think i'm done with the extra sorness and my recovery is begining to go up as well

simpleguy
09-13-07, 1:11 pm
hey G, I know I'm a bit off topic and I hope you don't mind, I also started a thread about this one but, so far, no answers... have you tried HMB before? if so, what are your thougts about it.. thanks

GrizzlyLB
09-25-07, 8:47 am
AA is currently in only two products that I know of (soon to be 3), because of the patent on it. Halo gels and the X-Factor are already on the market. I've tried them both and both times I gained a decent 5lbs that stayed, and I liked their affects on my body. Remembering to not take extra O-3's is also key too.

BA - This is a product that's not really new, but it's getting MAJOR study hype in the past several months. I've seen at least 3 magazine articles based on it, and numerous threads on other sites.

One reason why people don't get the "tingly" feeling that G is talking about when taking products like Shock or the likes is that you have to ingest over 1.6g of BA for the flush to occur. It's in a high enough dose in only one product I've ever taken that you could get the tingle (I wont name it here, if you ask in PM's I'll tell though).

Most studies done have used participants with only 3.2g total for the day, either with Creatine or without, along with a creatine and a placebo group to see what the true effects are. I don't have the numbers handy, but I remember that most of the results were conclusive that it's very beneficial. The groups using C & BA had extra fat loss (this could be linked to an increased work load with the BA though... not sure) as well.

I've yet to see a study on the effects of 6g a day, which is what I'm currently testing myself. 2g, 3x daily to keep the carnosine levels high in my muscles (2g pre, 2g post always) so far I've had amazing feelings in the gym like G has been saying and my sets are going up pretty good, at least 1 -3 extra reps per exercise.

G Diesel
09-25-07, 9:21 am
hey G, I know I'm a bit off topic and I hope you don't mind, I also started a thread about this one but, so far, no answers... have you tried HMB before? if so, what are your thougts about it.. thanks

I have tried HMB before bro... I liked it, but considering the doses necessary (3+ g a day), it can be quite expensive. Since it is a leucine metabolite, I'd recommend that guys simply use bulk leucine or EAAs or BCAAs. That said, if you can afford it and you have your other bases covered, 3g of HMB daily plus creatine and beta alanine would probably be an awesome combo. Peace, G

simpleguy
09-29-07, 9:30 am
I have tried HMB before bro... I liked it, but considering the doses necessary (3+ g a day), it can be quite expensive. Since it is a leucine metabolite, I'd recommend that guys simply use bulk leucine or EAAs or BCAAs. That said, if you can afford it and you have your other bases covered, 3g of HMB daily plus creatine and beta alanine would probably be an awesome combo. Peace, G

thanks G, just managed to get 45 g of it...gotta get some more, I don't know if 15 days is enough to say how it works, but it's pretty expensive... we'll see

Giant Killer
10-20-07, 11:53 am
Alright I'm going to try this Beta-alanine. I like the science behind it. I just ordered some 100g for $8. At that price I'll try it out. Every rep counts!

NickSP
10-20-07, 1:05 pm
I've checked out PubMed and there seems to be experiments concluding BA can definitely work, but does anyone have some links to how it actually works?

Giant Killer
10-20-07, 2:09 pm
I've checked out PubMed and there seems to be experiments concluding BA can definitely work, but does anyone have some links to how it actually works?

It increases muscle carnosine concentrations and buffers lactic acid buildup. It is supposedly almost as efficient at increasing carnosine as taking actual carnosine, which is much more expensive. What I've been reading is that essentially, on the rep where you usually fail, you push it for an additional 1-4 reps. It's supposed to take 3-6 weeks of daily usage (~3-6g total in split doses) to plateau your carnosine stores and get maximum benefit.

NickSP
10-20-07, 2:33 pm
It's supposed to take 3-6 weeks of daily usage (~3-6g total in split doses) to plateau your carnosine stores and get maximum benefit.

and then cycle off and do it again? or is it more like creatine with just a constant steady dose

carnosine's function is to just prevent lactic buildup too, correct?

NickSP
10-20-07, 3:03 pm
I know I've got a lot of questions, but...

the tingly feeling people note, what exactly is this flushing caused by? Is it just a direct effect of more carnosine being produced? Not that this has much to do with taking it or not, but I'm curious.

Giant Killer
10-20-07, 3:33 pm
and then cycle off and do it again? or is it more like creatine with just a constant steady dose

carnosine's function is to just prevent lactic buildup too, correct?

No, it takes that long to "load" and get maximum benefit. Then you just keep it goin'.


I know I've got a lot of questions, but...

the tingly feeling people note, what exactly is this flushing caused by? Is it just a direct effect of more carnosine being produced? Not that this has much to do with taking it or not, but I'm curious.

I'm also functioning on my limited research and terrible memory from last night here, but I read that in it's processing it causes some feedback of some chemical that is "neuro-excitatory", and engages the sympathetic nervous system to a degree ("fight-or-flight") response. In cases of accidental mega-dosing there can be a very large feeling of this nervous impulse and "fight-or-flight" response.

I've seen several "items of feedback" about this tingling sensation.
1) Some say it's very pleasurable, some say it's annoying, but not distracting to the point where it affects the workout negatively.
2) It decreases or goes away after about a week of use.
3) It doesn't happen to everyone.
4) It decreases when consumed with carbs.

Cstlfx
10-20-07, 3:48 pm
So, if i'm taking Storm, would taking beta-alanine be beneficial? Or would it not matter?

Also, I was looking online and some of the pure form BA powder is real cheap. Is the plain ol powdered stuff just as good?

Giant Killer
10-20-07, 4:00 pm
So, if i'm taking Storm, would taking beta-alanine be beneficial? Or would it not matter?

Also, I was looking online and some of the pure form BA powder is real cheap. Is the plain ol powdered stuff just as good?

Beta-alanine and creatine have been shown to have a synergistic effect, yes. I'm not sure of the mechanism but there was a study done & they work very well together. The only thing bad to take with it is I read that BA competes with is Taurine if you supp' with that.

I'd go for the bulk plain ol' powder. It's nothing fancy it should be pretty cheap, just an amino. If you guys don't find it for less than $8/100 g hit me up with a PM. I sure wish Universal made some...I like to send my money in their direction whenever possible.

NickSP
10-20-07, 5:22 pm
No, it takes that long to "load" and get maximum benefit. Then you just keep it goin'.


..........that's what I figured, thanks..............

I'm also functioning on my limited research and terrible memory from last night here, but I read that in it's processing it causes some feedback of some chemical that is "neuro-excitatory", and engages the sympathetic nervous system to a degree ("fight-or-flight") response. In cases of accidental mega-dosing there can be a very large feeling of this nervous impulse and "fight-or-flight" response.
with carbs.

I suppose you would have remembered it if it was epinephrine...oh well, not a big deal, thanks again.


So, if i'm taking Storm, would taking beta-alanine be beneficial? Or would it not matter?

Also, I was looking online and some of the pure form BA powder is real cheap. Is the plain ol powdered stuff just as good?

I'd say yes, my guess would be the amount in Storm isn't a lot, at least not as much as people talk about taking in for the real effects. Like GK said it's just an amino shouldn't be anything expensive, but yeah look at creatine, does straight powdered mono work? Absolutely. Not sure how many different forms they're producing anyway, imagine it's not a lot.


Beta-alanine and creatine have been shown to have a synergistic effect, yes. I'm not sure of the mechanism but there was a study done & they work very well together

Saw that as well. The studies would basically compare placebo vs. creatine vs. creatine + BA. More ATP + increased anaerobic threshold should make for some solid gains....not sure what else happens when these two get together....

Lookin to make my next big order soon, changin some supps around, will try to find a basic, cheap BA.

Cstlfx
10-21-07, 2:52 pm
Beta-alanine and creatine have been shown to have a synergistic effect, yes. I'm not sure of the mechanism but there was a study done & they work very well together. The only thing bad to take with it is I read that BA competes with is Taurine if you supp' with that.

I'd go for the bulk plain ol' powder. It's nothing fancy it should be pretty cheap, just an amino. If you guys don't find it for less than $8/100 g hit me up with a PM. I sure wish Universal made some...I like to send my money in their direction whenever possible.

Thanks for the help. I got mine for $12/200g. I'm going to start it soon, sounds like a blast.

Giant Killer
10-21-07, 3:12 pm
Thanks for the help. I got mine for $12/200g. I'm going to start it soon, sounds like a blast.

Have fun bro'. Be sure and bring some feedback after you've been using it for a while.

Cstlfx
10-21-07, 5:57 pm
Will do.

NickSP
10-25-07, 2:27 pm
Yo G, you still stick to 5 g pre and a few more post with BA? What do you think about 2-3 g in the morning or between meals and 3-4 g pre workout for a smaller guy?
Everyone says to take it in split doses, would it really a problem to just go 5 g preWO?

G Diesel
10-25-07, 3:42 pm
Yo G, you still stick to 5 g pre and a few more post with BA? What do you think about 2-3 g in the morning or between meals and 3-4 g pre workout for a smaller guy?
Everyone says to take it in split doses, would it really a problem to just go 5 g preWO?

That should be perfect Nick... 6g is the general recommended dose anyway. Peace, G

naturalguy
10-25-07, 4:19 pm
Yo G, you still stick to 5 g pre and a few more post with BA? What do you think about 2-3 g in the morning or between meals and 3-4 g pre workout for a smaller guy?
Everyone says to take it in split doses, would it really a problem to just go 5 g preWO?

People split up the dosing with BA because it can cause parasthesia (tingling) so 5 grms in one shot may bother some people. It seems to be highly individual.

Bob
10-26-07, 11:18 am
People split up the dosing with BA because it can cause parasthesia (tingling) so 5 grms in one shot may bother some people. It seems to be highly individual.

Yeah that's true. I noticed that when I spread the dose of BA throughout the day that I didn't get as much of a noticeable tingling, however, I kinda like that tingling.

Giant Killer
10-26-07, 3:41 pm
Just took my first dose of Beta. I think it was about 3.5 grams. I'm electric! LOL, it doesn't bother me though, not sure why people bitch about it so much.

lycan_warlord
11-06-07, 12:45 pm
I just ordered a 500g tub of Beta A, and 100 AA pills. i can't wait to get started!!!

I'll be sure to post my results.

-lycan

G Diesel
11-06-07, 12:51 pm
I just ordered a 500g tub of Beta A, and 100 AA pills. i can't wait to get started!!!

I'll be sure to post my results.

-lycan

Nice... I'm already getting my AA from Animal Test, I'm gonna start back up on the Beta Alanine this week at probably 3-5 g pre and post. Peace, G

lycan_warlord
11-06-07, 1:02 pm
Nice... I'm already getting my AA from Animal Test, I'm gonna start back up on the Beta Alanine this week at probably 3-5 g pre and post. Peace, G

Mr. Diesel sir. nice to finally be in the same "presence" as you. I added you on myspace, but that's not saying anything :D/

I'm thinking 2g 3x a day (morning, pre, and afternoon) on the B-A
and 1 pill 3x a day with the AA

do you think that should do the trick??

how much AA does Test have, out of curiousity...

thanks G

-lycan

Giant Killer
11-06-07, 1:02 pm
Just an update, been using Beta for 10 days now and the paresthesia is really not as bad as it was for the first couple days, not that it bothered me anyway. Been taking 3g with 5g creatine mono in 1 scoop Gatorade & 1 scoop WMS. Can't wait for the loading process to be complete so my Carnosine stores can be peaked. I need to get a little scale since I ordered bulk and 3g is really just an approximation. I could be taking anywhere between 3-5g twice a day.

ChandlerXJ
11-06-07, 1:10 pm
Hmm. So 10g a day of Beta Alanine would be a good idea?

G Diesel
11-06-07, 1:11 pm
Mr. Diesel sir. nice to finally be in the same "presence" as you. I added you on myspace, but that's not saying anything :D/

I'm thinking 2g 3x a day (morning, pre, and afternoon) on the B-A
and 1 pill 3x a day with the AA

do you think that should do the trick??

how much AA does Test have, out of curiousity...

thanks G

-lycan

That looks like the perfect protocol with Beta Alanine, but I was thinking maybe 2g pre, intra and post... Kinda the same way I use creatine (around my workout). I know there is a pretty hefty dose of AA in each pack of Test but the specific amount is proprietary. As for the usage of AA, I think 1 3x a day, would be a good way to go... Another option would be 1 in the AM and 2 preworkout. Hope that helps bro. Peace, G

G Diesel
11-06-07, 1:12 pm
Hmm. So 10g a day of Beta Alanine would be a good idea?

I think that would be the high end bro... Start with 5 or 6g a day (in 2 or 3 doses) and take it from there. As hard as it is for us (especially me) to comprehend, more isn't always better. Peace, G

Big Wides
11-06-07, 1:22 pm
just started to add the Beta to my Torrent PWO starting this past week, i enjoy the tingling but as of now to early to tell what the results are of the Beta yet, should be interesting

Giant Killer
11-06-07, 1:32 pm
From the research I saw, I think it was ~6-7 g daily was the highest effective dose. This can be, of course, split up any way necessary. Beyond that dose range there was no corresponding benefit, just wasting Beta/money! haha.

NickSP
11-06-07, 2:05 pm
Yeah, I think I'm gonna keep up with 3 g pre/3 g post, and then maybe 2 x 2 g on off days (I typically don't use as much creatine on off days as I do with training either. I just throw some in to keep my levels up a bit). Maybe after several weeks I'll start bumping up to 4-5 g pre and post, and then start bumping my off day doses. I've had phenominal numbers in my workouts since I've started the stuff, although I'm starting up Nitro G and Torrent again tomorrow (it's been far too long...) so I can't necessarily attribute all of my gains from here on out to the BA.

lycan_warlord
11-06-07, 5:08 pm
That looks like the perfect protocol with Beta Alanine, but I was thinking maybe 2g pre, intra and post... Kinda the same way I use creatine (around my workout). I know there is a pretty hefty dose of AA in each pack of Test but the specific amount is proprietary. As for the usage of AA, I think 1 3x a day, would be a good way to go... Another option would be 1 in the AM and 2 preworkout. Hope that helps bro. Peace, G

thanks for responding G. Your way does make more sense, since B-A is supposed to help during your workout.

what would you recommend for a intra-cocktail??? just save some of the PreWO??

and as far as AA, would it be better to take before or after a workout??

thanks to all for any helpful ideas

-lycan

Giant Killer
11-08-07, 3:11 pm
Effect of creatine and beta-alanine supplementation on performance and endocrine responses in strength/power athletes.
Hoffman J, Ratamess N, Kang J, Mangine G, Faigenbaum A, Stout J.
Dept. of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, NJ 08628, USA.

The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus beta-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition.

PMID: 17136944 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

brandonA
11-08-07, 3:15 pm
Effect of creatine and beta-alanine supplementation on performance and endocrine responses in strength/power athletes.
Hoffman J, Ratamess N, Kang J, Mangine G, Faigenbaum A, Stout J.
Dept. of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, NJ 08628, USA.

The effects of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength, power, body composition, and endocrine changes were examined during a 10-wk resistance training program in collegiate football players. Thirty-three male subjects were randomly assigned to either a placebo (P), creatine (C), or creatine plus beta-alanine (CA) group. During each testing session subjects were assessed for strength (maximum bench press and squat), power (Wingate anaerobic power test, 20-jump test), and body composition. Resting blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, IGF-1, and sex hormone binding globulin. Changes in lean body mass and percent body fat were greater (P < 0.05) in CA compared to C or P. Significantly greater strength improvements were seen in CA and C compared to P. Resting testosterone concentrations were elevated in C, however, no other significant endocrine changes were noted. Results of this study demonstrate the efficacy of creatine and creatine plus beta-alanine on strength performance. Creatine plus beta-alanine supplementation appeared to have the greatest effect on lean tissue accruement and body fat composition.

PMID: 17136944 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

English please...I think i got the idea, but may be off base....

-B

G Diesel
11-08-07, 3:29 pm
New AA article on UN.com: http://www.universalnutrition.com/features/arachidonic.cfm

Peace, G

NickSP
11-08-07, 3:30 pm
Translation: Beta-alanine works great with creatine.



will improve strength and bodyfat %, but BA will not increase test or any other hormones.

brandonA
11-08-07, 3:37 pm
Translation: Beta-alanine works great with creatine.



will improve strength and bodyfat %, but BA will not increase test or any other hormones.

That is what I though, thanks Nick

Giant Killer
11-08-07, 3:55 pm
Translation: Beta-alanine works great with creatine.



will improve strength and bodyfat %, but BA will not increase test or any other hormones.


Thank you sir...sorry I was in a hurry when I posted that.

Giant Killer
11-12-07, 3:39 pm
Just a little update here since I noticed something very interesting today. On day 18 of my Beta Alanine supplementation and I feel the first "difference".

Normally, in a set...you feel the lactic acid burn, you feel a killer burn that you have to break through the wall on, and then you hit failure on "x rep". Today, there was no lactic burn, I would just be hitting reps, and then all the sudden, failure on "x rep". Really leads me to believe the carnosine buffering is taking hold.

naturalguy
11-12-07, 4:09 pm
Just a little update here since I noticed something very interesting today. On day 18 of my Beta Alanine supplementation and I feel the first "difference".

Normally, in a set...you feel the lactic acid burn, you feel a killer burn that you have to break through the wall on, and then you hit failure on "x rep". Today, there was no lactic burn, I would just be hitting reps, and then all the sudden, failure on "x rep". Really leads me to believe the carnosine buffering is taking hold.

Thats it. Thats what you should feel on BA

lycan_warlord
11-19-07, 3:10 pm
update: I'm taking my AA pills AFTER i workout, instead of before. so all 3 pills PWO, afternoon, evening shake. The Beta Alanine I am taking 3g with Shock Therapy as my PreWO. and then 3g in my "Ant-ade". I haven't notice a real jump in soreness, but I'm only a week in.

I'm lovin the BA tho!!!

-lycan

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 7:38 pm
each scoop has 2grams of it

it's recomend it too take
1 scoop pre workout and 1 scoop post workout should i follow that?
or should i increase it?
also how do i mix it?

Elite
11-30-07, 7:43 pm
each scoop has 2grams of it

it's recomend it too take
1 scoop pre workout and 1 scoop post workout should i follow that?
or should i increase it?
also how do i mix it?

Start at 2g and go from there, see how it feels. I felt i needed 5g to reap the full benefits. As for mixing, it mixes really easy and to my knowledge is completely tasteless as my eaa stack tastes exactly the same with it.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 8:58 pm
each scoop has 2grams of it

it's recomend it too take
1 scoop pre workout and 1 scoop post workout should i follow that?
or should i increase it?
also how do i mix it?

anyone?

Giant Killer
11-30-07, 11:36 pm
each scoop has 2grams of it

it's recomend it too take
1 scoop pre workout and 1 scoop post workout should i follow that?
or should i increase it?
also how do i mix it?

I would do 1 scoop pre-workout and 2 scoops post. The tingles are not as bad post workout so you can dose higher during that time. That will give you a total of 6g which I feel is optimal.

Goliathus
12-14-09, 2:50 pm
With BA's carnosine denature...wouldn't taking Carnosine be a half decent idea, as well?
I remember reading about stacking Carnosine with Whey, it adds to the effectiveness of your Whey digestion somehow, I don't exactly remember how, unfortunately.
I imagine a quick google of it will link it within a minute or so...