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7
07-11-07, 10:46 am
Always think you're not big enough or muscular enough? Fixated on looking at yourself in the mirror? Obsessed with meals and working out? If so, some might say you have "muscle dysmorphia". Good thing or bad? Real or imagined? Are comic books and cartoons really to blame? Discuss.

Spikes079
07-11-07, 10:47 am
sorry I'm a lil lost with this what is dysmorphia

G Diesel
07-11-07, 10:50 am
Good thing or bad? Real or imagined? Are comic books and cartoons really to blame?

Very real... Good from a motivation standpoint, but terrible from a perception of reality/mental health pov. I think comic books warped my perception of the human form when I was a kid and that ideal is still embedded in my psyche to this day. Peace, G

G Diesel
07-11-07, 10:55 am
sorry I'm a lil lost with this what is dysmorphia

Bigorexia... The idea that you're never big enough and that you perceive yourself differently than other people see you. Basically having an idealized and unrealistic idea of what the human form is supposed to look like. Peace, G

7
07-11-07, 11:00 am
Very real... Good from a motivation standpoint, but terrible from a perception of reality/mental health pov. I think comic books warped my perception of the human form when I was a kid and that ideal is still embedded in my psyche to this day. Peace, G

It's a fine line between dedication and obsession, confidence and muscle dysmorphia. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. For the men, the comic books and muscle magazines. For the women, fashion magazines. I can only imagine muscle dysmorphia becoming a well-established part of the DSM one day.

Punisher
07-11-07, 11:01 am
It's a fine line between dedication and obsession, confidence and muscle dysmorphia. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. For the men, the comic books and muscle magazines. For the women, fashion magazines. I can only imagine muscle dysmorphia becoming a well-established part of the DSM one day.

I poste dthis in another thread, it seems to fit here.

"I knwo a lot of guys who would definetly be classified as having body dysmorphia, but I think deep down inside they know they are huge and vascular they just want to be bigger, they havent achgieved their goals yet tehy never will. Bodybuilding is a process always evolving, once you achieve a small goals a new one arises. But these guys sweat confidence, I think for the most part having a better body, and making changes through blood sweat and tears builds up confidence in yourself and lets you know that anything you want in life is achievable to a degree if you are willing to put in teh work for it and make the necessary sacrafices. It may be a long hard road but you will get there or die trying. A would bet if you did a poll a lot of guys who train, bodybuild powerlift compete whatever, have a similar view on this. It just opens up your mind, lets you knwo that most things are achievable, you just need to accecpt what you are given genetics wise and work with it as much as possible claw your way to the top if necessary. Bodybuilders have will power and know what the word sacrafice truly means."

7
07-11-07, 11:07 am
I poste dthis in another thread, it seems to fit here.

"I knwo a lot of guys who would definetly be classified as having body dysmorphia, but I think deep down inside they know they are huge and vascular they just want to be bigger, they havent achgieved their goals yet tehy never will. Bodybuilding is a process always evolving, once you achieve a small goals a new one arises. But these guys sweat confidence, I think for the most part having a better body, and making changes through blood sweat and tears builds up confidence in yourself and lets you know that anything you want in life is achievable to a degree if you are willing to put in teh work for it and make the necessary sacrafices. It may be a long hard road but you will get there or die trying. A would bet if you did a poll a lot of guys who train, bodybuild powerlift compete whatever, have a similar view on this. It just opens up your mind, lets you knwo that most things are achievable, you just need to accecpt what you are given genetics wise and work with it as much as possible claw your way to the top if necessary. Bodybuilders have will power and know what the word sacrafice truly means."

Agree with much of what you're saying Punisher. But I wonder. When does the desire for "making changes" cross over into dysmorphia?

brandonA
07-11-07, 11:09 am
sorry I'm a lil lost with this what is dysmorphia

It is when you look in the mirror and see yourself smaller than you really are. You could be a 300 pound ripped monster, but you only see a 200 lb weakling...

I have felt this way my whole life, maybe it has a lot to do with my fucked up childhood, but my self esteem among other things was very poor for a long time...

I look down and dont see 18" arms, they look avarage to me. In the same thought, when I was at my heaviest, the image I had of myself was not as bad as the real thing, I saw that I was fat, but did not think that it was that bad, then I would see a pic of myself and drop in to a deep funk....

Real shit, I love Conan comic books, read a ton of them as a kid, watched all the movies a ton of times...but I dont think that it really messed with my mind too bad...lol...

-B

7
07-11-07, 11:11 am
Real shit, I love Conan comic books, read a ton of them as a kid, watched all the movies a ton of times...but I dont think that it really messed with my mind too bad...lol...

Or at least as far as your conscious mind is aware, right brandona?

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 11:14 am
Always think you're not big enough or muscular enough? Fixated on looking at yourself in the mirror? Obsessed with meals and working out? If so, some might say you have "muscle dysmorphia". Good thing or bad? Real or imagined? Are comic books and cartoons really to blame? Discuss.

I would have to say that most guys who are dedicated to lifting do NOT have muscle dysmorphia.

I saw a news report on muscle dysmorphia in which the guys they interviewed would train everyday for hours on end, with no "off" periods to recover. There was one guy who thought he was small so much that he would train through injuries (I mean training the injured bodypart) and only stopped training when his muscle literally fell off the bone. The tendon had been so worn without recovering.

So yes, muscle dysmorphia is real, but not because you like to look good and are dedicated to lifting and eating. It is much more than that.

brandonA
07-11-07, 11:15 am
Or at least as far as your conscious mind is aware, right brandona?

Yep, reading all them comic books had to lay an egg deep in the grey matter somewhere..

-B

7
07-11-07, 11:16 am
Yep, reading all them comic books had to lay an egg deep in the grey matter somewhere..

-B

Egg, eh? LOL.

Punisher
07-11-07, 11:19 am
I honestly think that society needs to coin a disease or disorder for anything that is not considered "normal"

We just got stuck with that one.....Greek and roman sculptor also must have had thsi disorder as well as many other artists of the renniassance period

7
07-11-07, 11:25 am
I honestly think that society needs to coin a disease or disorder for anything that is not considered "normal"

We just got stuck with that one.....Greek and roman sculptor also must have had thsi disorder as well as many other artists of the renniassance period

I agree with you on your first point Punisher. It's what gives growing legitimacy to the psychiatric-industrial-complex.

Your second point, I'm not so sure about...

G Diesel
07-11-07, 11:26 am
I honestly think that society needs to coin a disease or disorder for anything that is not considered "normal"

We just got stuck with that one.....Greek and roman sculptor also must have had thsi disorder as well as many other artists of the renniassance period

It is a real thing though... Many bbers never see themselves as big enough, just as an anorexic never see themselves as thin enough. Having a warped body image is a reality for most of the guys I know in this game. I'm well aware of my illness and I embrace it to a degree, but I also realize that you must have some perspective when you are around normal folks. A 250 lb guy saying "I feel small today" to an average joe just comes off wrong... It is a lot like a hot chick saying "My ass looks so fat in these jeans." Quit fishing for a compliment, baby. Try saying that to a woman with a weight problem and watch her beat your ass, and rightfully so. Peace, G

7
07-11-07, 11:28 am
I would have to say that most guys who are dedicated to lifting do NOT have muscle dysmorphia.


I think you're right.

pdiesel
07-11-07, 11:36 am
I myself read a lot of comic books as a kid but I don't think that it had an affect on me subconsciously. I agree with Macrobolic when he says that, "it seems that only real dedicated lifters suffer from dysmorphia." He makes a strong point here. I know for a fact that when I look in the mirror, I've made tremendous progress, but it's still not good enough--there is always room for improvement. At the same time though, I realize my gains and find myself very pleased and satisfied with what I've accomplished, so I wouldn't say that I'm too hard on myself in terms of dysmorphia, I try not to think too much about it. IDK though, it depends on my mood.

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 11:41 am
I myself read a lot of comic books as a kid but I don't think that it had an affect on me subconsciously. I agree with Macrobolic when he says that, "it seems that only real dedicated lifters suffer from dysmorphia." He makes a strong point here. I know for a fact that when I look in the mirror, I've made tremendous progress, but it's still not good enough--there is always room for improvement. At the same time though, I realize my gains and find myself very pleased and satisfied with what I've accomplished, so I wouldn't say that I'm too hard on myself in terms of dysmorphia, I try not to think to much about it. IDK though, it depends on my mood.

Just to clarify, what I said is that it is much more than just being dedicated. It's those who don't know when to stop, or can't because of the skewed perception of reality (IE- psychological illness) that they are still small even when they are actually much larger than the general population.

7
07-11-07, 11:42 am
For what it's worth, researchers are actually studying muscle dysmorphia. According to work done by Olivardia (2000), muscle dysmorphia was found to be similar to eating disorders. Men with muscle dysmorphia resembled men who had eating disorders, whereas "normal" men resembled men without eating disorders.

Punisher
07-11-07, 11:46 am
For what it's worth, researchers are actually studying muscle dysmorphia. According to work done by Olivardia (2000), muscle dysmorphia was found to be similar to eating disorders. Men with muscle dysmorphia resembled men who had eating disorders, whereas "normal" men resembled men without eating disorders.

I think we need to find a cure for this disease, so we no longer need to lift heavy weight forcefeed ourselves cardio till our legs fall off and take a bunch of supplements. that sounds like some important research.....

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 11:59 am
For what it's worth, researchers are actually studying muscle dysmorphia. According to work done by Olivardia (2000), muscle dysmorphia was found to be similar to eating disorders. Men with muscle dysmorphia resembled men who had eating disorders, whereas "normal" men resembled men without eating disorders.


I think we need to find a cure for this disease, so we no longer need to lift heavy weight forcefeed ourselves cardio till our legs fall off and take a bunch of supplements. that sounds like some important research.....

I don't think that was exactly what he was saying. Muscle dysmorphia (bigorexia, whatever you want to call it) is a mental illness, like an eating disorder is.

It's not that we don't need to lift heavy, eat a lot of food, supplement, and do cardio. We do need to do that, but most people know when to stop (IE-train intelligently), how to pace themselves accordingly and don't have a skewed perception of reality.

People who suffer from muscle dysmorphia have a skewed perception of reality, much like those who suffer from anorexia do. I've taken a few psych classes at my university and researchers are just now beginning to study this.

Punisher
07-11-07, 12:08 pm
Im not saying its not real, but what im saying is that by definition all that wwe do would fall under thsi category. What we do is not the norm.

Don't confuse people who don't know how to train or diet correctly as the only people who have this disorder. To them we all have it, wtf is doing research going to provide just another study because i certaintly am not looking for a cure...

7
07-11-07, 12:16 pm
I think we need to find a cure for this disease, so we no longer need to lift heavy weight forcefeed ourselves cardio till our legs fall off and take a bunch of supplements. that sounds like some important research.....

I think your eliding some important differences here Punisher. According to the research at least, there does appears to be a real distinction between dysmorphic and non-dysmorphic lifters. If so, your comment would undermine and risk devaluing the importance of debate surrounding the validity of muscle dysmorphia as a real phenomena. It could also serve to diminish those who might actually suffer from it.

7
07-11-07, 12:18 pm
Im not saying its not real, but what im saying is that by definition all that wwe do would fall under thsi category. What we do is not the norm.

Don't confuse people who don't know how to train or diet correctly as the only people who have this disorder. To them we all have it, wtf is doing research going to provide just another study because i certaintly am not looking for a cure...

No, it would not. I don't think you can generalize and say that all those in psychiatric research would stereotype all lifters as having muscle dysmorphia. They would look at this phenomena in a clinical manner. Just like they would be able to differentiate dieters from those who have anorexia, they would be able to distinguish the normal bodybuilder from those with dysmorphia.

k1usa
07-11-07, 12:19 pm
For me it was Hercules...he would get inbetween two huge marble supports for a building..push them and down the town would come...I would watch these programs with my friends back in the day...and when the show was over..we would go outside and reinact the show...and stand with our arms out and shoulders back like all pumped up....it happened back then...in the early 60's...caught the bug....has not stopped since....hooked.....done!!!!!

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 12:24 pm
...To them we all have it, wtf is doing research going to provide just another study because i certaintly am not looking for a cure...

LOL, so true

7
07-11-07, 12:25 pm
For me it was Hercules...he would get inbetween two huge marble supports for a building..push them and down the town would come...I would watch these programs with my friends back in the day...and when the show was over..we would go outside and reinact the show...and stand with our arms out and shoulders back like all pumped up....it happened back then...in the early 60's...caught the bug....has not stopped since....hooked.....done!!!!!

Great story there k1usa. I think we all have stories of our own, just like this.

Punisher
07-11-07, 12:27 pm
No, it would not. I don't think you can generalize and say that all those in psychiatric research would stereotype all lifters as having muscle dysmorphia. They would look at this phenomena in a clinical manner. Just like they would be able to differentiate dieters from those who have anorexia, they would be able to distinguish the normal bodybuilder from those with dysmorphia.


They already do, sure there are some lifters who are satisfied with the way they look but most of us are not even if others think we look good already, that would fall under body dymophic symtoms. Just because you have thsi disorder that doesnt me you have to overtrain and do everything wrong and un regulated, im pretty sure people who have thsi disorder want to get resulst so they try to train intelligently, ever wonder why someone who doesnt compete would want to be 250 pounds at 3% bodyfat just to wlak aroundd and still wnat to be bigger

7
07-11-07, 12:28 pm
They already do, sure there are some lifters who are satisfied with the way they look but most of us are not even if others think we look good already, that would fall under body dymophic symtoms. Just because you have thsi disorder that doesnt me you have to overtrain and do everything wrong and un regulated, im pretty sure people who have thsi disorder want to get resulst so they try to train intelligently, ever wonder why someone who doesnt compete would want to be 250 pounds at 3% bodyfat just to wlak aroundd and still wnat to be bigger

Honestly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

G Diesel
07-11-07, 12:28 pm
I think the point Punisher is making, one I touched on about 20 posts and a page ago, is that muscle dysmorphia (ie, the skewed perception of one's physique) is present in differing degrees to all of those who are deeply entrenched in this lifestyle. It is part and parcel of training and assessing your physique for years on end. I've trained with Wrath, and dead pan serious, he looked at his arms (among the best ever in our sport) and said "Skinny arms, eh?" Am I saying that everyone I know who loves to train needs psychiatric evaluation and the sort of help that say, an anorexic does? No. But that said, I don't know of anyone in this sport who has a healthy and accurate body self image (muscle dysmorphic tendencies). Peace, G

Punisher
07-11-07, 12:32 pm
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

if you had this "disorder" you would

7
07-11-07, 12:39 pm
I think the point Punisher is making, one I touched on about 20 posts and a page ago, is that muscle dysmorphia (ie, the skewed perception of one's physique) is present in differing degrees to all of those who are deeply entrenched in this lifestyle. It is part and parcel of training and assessing your physique for years on end. I've trained with Wrath, and dead pan serious, he looked at his arms (among the best ever in our sport) and said "Skinny arms, eh?" Am I saying that everyone I know who loves to train needs psychiatric evaluation and the sort of help that say, an anorexic does? No. But that said, I don't know of anyone in this sport who has a healthy and accurate body image (muscle dysmorphic tendencies). Peace, G

You could be right. A specific mental illness can often be mild or severe, and many illnesses fall along a spectrum. So you could be correct in saying that many bodybuilders may have some degree of muscle dysmorphia (I would probably avoid saying "all" though, for if you do, you run the risk devaluing those who might actually have it).

I think society has a natural tendency to see physical disabilities for what they are. They don't question it. After all, how can you not notice it or see it with your own two eyes, right? I do think, in contrast, that many see mental disabilities or disorders as being things that individuals could control or fix.

Some of the most fascinating research being done anywhere is the genome project. Recent research suggests that type 2 diabetes has a genetic link. There are now 10 genetic variants associated with being susceptible to this disease. It's not just diabetes though. More and more, researchers are finding genetic links to mental disorders too. There is some groundbreaking work looking at the genetic component to mental diseases such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. A hundred years ago, let alone a year ago, many would have thought mental illnesses were phantom illnesses.

It may be that muscle dysmorphia has a real genetic link, a set of variations that could clearly define this disorder. If so, then some lifters would have it, while others would not. But let's not conclude that all dedicated lifters have it.

7
07-11-07, 12:39 pm
if you had this "disorder" you would

Please.

krazyassmexican
07-11-07, 12:43 pm
i probably dont have Muscle Dysmorphia
but i know everytime i look in the mirror i am ashamed of myself
i am 78lbs leaner than when i started liftin but i find myself as a fat fuck
i look at myself and feel like i weight 500lbs

that shit drives me nuts

Punisher
07-11-07, 12:53 pm
You could be right. A specific mental illness can often be mild or severe, and many illnesses fall along a spectrum. So you could be correct in saying that many bodybuilders may have some degree of muscle dysmorphia (I would probably avoid saying "all" though, for if you do, you run the risk devaluing those who might actually have it).

I think society has a natural tendency to see physical disabilities for what they are. They don't question it. After all, how can you not notice it or see it with your own two eyes, right? I do think, in contrast, that many see mental disabilities or disorders as being things that individuals could control or fix.

Some of the most fascinating research being done anywhere is the genome project. Recent research suggests that type 2 diabetes has a genetic link. There are now 10 genetic variants associated with being susceptible to this disease. It's not just diabetes though. More and more, researchers are finding genetic links to mental disorders too. There is some groundbreaking work looking at the genetic component to mental diseases such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. A hundred years ago, let alone a year ago, many would have thought mental illnesses were phantom illnesses.

It may be that muscle dysmorphia has a real genetic link, a set of variations that could clearly define this disorder. If so, then some lifters would have it, while others would not. But let's not conclude that all dedicated lifters have it.

If everything is genetically pre determined why do anything? why not let scientists tell us what we are meant to do with our lives and say fuck free will.

G Diesel
07-11-07, 12:59 pm
If everything is genetically pre determined why do anything? why not let scientists tell us what we are meant to do with our lives and say fuck free will.

A very Calvinistic view of the bbing world, if you will. Peace, G

7
07-11-07, 1:02 pm
If everything is genetically pre determined why do anything? why not let scientists tell us what we are meant to do with our lives and say fuck free will.

You like seeing things in basic, binary terms don't you Punisher? I wish I could. But there is a world of subtleties and nuances between extremes. Very rarely are things either-or.

Punisher
07-11-07, 1:07 pm
You like seeing things in basic, binary terms don't you Punisher? I wish I could. But there is a world of subtleties and nuances between extremes. Very rarely are things either-or.

once you can see things in basic as yes no or either or you can then get into the subtle details of it all

Over-analyzation is overrated

7
07-11-07, 1:11 pm
once you can see things in basic as yes no or either or you can then get into the subtle details of it all

Over-analyzation is overrated

Touche. Still, it's easier to grasp the basics, but far more difficult to embrace complexity. So what's worse, over-analyzation or under-analyzation? You be the judge.

Punisher
07-11-07, 1:14 pm
Touche. Still, it's easier to grasp the basics, but far more difficult to embrace complexity. So what's worse, over-analyzation or under-analyzation? You be the judge.


When it comes to bodybuilding, overanalyzation is worsee, Too many kinds nee dto knwo the exact nutrient break down and teh why and how of ever minute detail instead of just following the saying "Shut the fuck up and train" just do it....u can analyze shit till ur eyes fall outta your head and your brain leaks out yoru ears but if you dont put anything to practice what does that accomplish

Its not that i cannot grasp complexity or minute differences, I choose to ignore them. In most cases they can be and still get things done. Sometime steh most simple plan or answer is the best one. it doenst matter what is easier or more difficult just what works

Tron
07-11-07, 2:07 pm
I don't think that was exactly what he was saying. Muscle dysmorphia (bigorexia, whatever you want to call it) is a mental illness, like an eating disorder is.

But is it really on the level of Anorexia and Bulimia.

I personally am not as big as I would want to be, but the fact is I'm NOT big. I know some people would tell me I have dysmorphia. I however am in all actuallity small and some people would classify me under such a thing because THEY would like me to be a certain way. The perception of others can worsen the said disease. That's something that needs to be taken into account.

I think if you are already heavyweight size and feel that you are still small, yes it is truly a disease. With that being said, I don't feel it's as bad as Anorexia. If I'd have to choose one extreme, I'd choose this one.

Tron
07-11-07, 2:09 pm
When it comes to bodybuilding, overanalyzation is worsee, Too many kinds nee dto knwo the exact nutrient break down and teh why and how of ever minute detail instead of just following the saying "Shut the fuck up and train" just do it....u can analyze shit till ur eyes fall outta your head and your brain leaks out yoru ears but if you dont put anything to practice what does that accomplish

Its not that i cannot grasp complexity or minute differences, I choose to ignore them. In most cases they can be and still get things done. Sometime steh most simple plan or answer is the best one. it doenst matter what is easier or more difficult just what works

Amen to that! It's not as hard as people make it out to be. Eat plenty of protein and the needed carbs, train, and rest. Simple to me. It's not rocket science.

BamBam
07-11-07, 2:45 pm
Although there is more that goes into it...I agree Tron...it is pretty simple.

For the "Bigarexia" thing...I agree. I have it...bad. I dont see myself as being healthy, muscular, strong, whatever...I only see the old fat Josh, and someone who is weak and will never look like the guys he idolizes. However, my girlfriend and guys who lift along side me telll me how massive I am getting and how big I look and I am getting huge etc...I dont see it...probably never will...I will keep pushing though...I am very happy with where I am at now in my "caree"...but...not happy enough per say.

About the comic book thing...I would gladly love to look like the Incredible Hulk...IMO

Wasteland
07-11-07, 3:17 pm
Pertinent thread. I think it's important to remember not everyone who is dedicated to this great sport, who constantly strives for something greater, has muscle dysmorphia.

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 5:05 pm
No, it would not. I don't think you can generalize and say that all those in psychiatric research would stereotype all lifters as having muscle dysmorphia. They would look at this phenomena in a clinical manner. Just like they would be able to differentiate dieters from those who have anorexia, they would be able to distinguish the normal bodybuilder from those with dysmorphia.

X2


But is it really on the level of Anorexia and Bulimia.

I personally am not as big as I would want to be, but the fact is I'm NOT big. I know some people would tell me I have dysmorphia. I however am in all actuallity small and some people would classify me under such a thing because THEY would like me to be a certain way. The perception of others can worsen the said disease. That's something that needs to be taken into account.

I think if you are already heavyweight size and feel that you are still small, yes it is truly a disease. With that being said, I don't feel it's as bad as Anorexia. If I'd have to choose one extreme, I'd choose this one.

It is true that the general public would classify you as having muscle dysmorphia, just as everyone says that this person or that person has anorexia/bulimia because they are skinny. But therein lies the problem, they have no formal training to be able to do so, and so their opinion (even if it turns out to be true IE- being diagnosed by someone qualified to do so) means nothing. Even if YOU think that you have it, you still need to be examined by someone qualified.

The real test is to be examined by a liscensed psychologist/psychiatrist who specializes in this type of thing.

eblnyc
07-11-07, 6:51 pm
first of all if you have this problem you would never admit it,i never thought when i was starving myself that there was anything wrong with me.denial! this disorder is more than just catching the iron bug. it is an extreme obession with lifting,to the point where you will do whatever it takes to be big.no consideration for your health. from what i have read about this it is suppose to be very rare and the" bodybuilding lifestyle does not fit the crietra of muscle dysmorphia".people who have this dont take rest days,will do mass amounts of training and will take huge amounts of anabolics look in the mirror and see weak and skinny. this will eventually kill you just like my eating disorder almost killed me.

Macrobolic
07-11-07, 7:30 pm
first of all if you have this problem you would never admit it,i never thought when i was starving myself that there was anything wrong with me.denial! this disorder is more than just catching the iron bug. it is an extreme obession with lifting,to the point where you will do whatever it takes to be big.no consideration for your health. from what i have read about this it is suppose to be very rare and the" bodybuilding lifestyle does not fit the crietra of muscle dysmorphia".people who have this dont take rest days,will do mass amounts of training and will take huge amounts of anabolics look in the mirror and see weak and skinny. this will eventually kill you just like my eating disorder almost killed me.

hit the nail on the head. good post.

7
07-12-07, 10:51 am
first of all if you have this problem you would never admit it,i never thought when i was starving myself that there was anything wrong with me.denial! this disorder is more than just catching the iron bug. it is an extreme obession with lifting,to the point where you will do whatever it takes to be big.no consideration for your health. from what i have read about this it is suppose to be very rare and the" bodybuilding lifestyle does not fit the crietra of muscle dysmorphia".people who have this dont take rest days,will do mass amounts of training and will take huge amounts of anabolics look in the mirror and see weak and skinny. this will eventually kill you just like my eating disorder almost killed me.

Not only might you "never admit it", you'd probably wouldn't even know you had it.

benmatthews90
07-12-07, 12:55 pm
its not that we always see ourselves as small, some times you look at yourself and feel fucking huge, ripped and full other times you look and only see the worts parts, weak arms and skinny shoulders, and the change is 90% mental, granted you can be carb loaded or be retaining lots of water but how you feel prior to seeing yourself is a lot of it

Macrobolic
07-12-07, 1:45 pm
Not only might you "never admit it", you'd probably wouldn't even know you had it.

agreed.

BamBam
07-12-07, 7:57 pm
I agree with "7"...but solving a problem or helping your problem is admitting you have one..if again you KNOW you have it...which some of us do.

pdiesel
07-12-07, 8:28 pm
i feel that when lifting makes a person mentally unstable they need to step back and get a grip..lifting and bodybuilding is great, but there is much more to life than it..it's an amazing hobby/activity/sport but in life, there needs to be a healthy balance..sometimes we all are so consumed by something that we don't realize the other important things in life..lifting should be an enjoyable experience, not one that disruprts your mental stability

Liftbig21
07-12-07, 8:52 pm
When it comes to bodybuilding, overanalyzation is worsee, Too many kinds nee dto knwo the exact nutrient break down and teh why and how of ever minute detail instead of just following the saying "Shut the fuck up and train" just do it....u can analyze shit till ur eyes fall outta your head and your brain leaks out yoru ears but if you dont put anything to practice what does that accomplish

Its not that i cannot grasp complexity or minute differences, I choose to ignore them. In most cases they can be and still get things done. Sometime steh most simple plan or answer is the best one. it doenst matter what is easier or more difficult just what works


Excellant post....my thoughts exactly.

BamBam
07-12-07, 10:26 pm
Excellant post....my thoughts exactly.

x2

Macrobolic
07-12-07, 11:11 pm
i feel that when lifting makes a person mentally unstable they need to step back and get a grip..lifting and bodybuilding is great, but there is much more to life than it..it's an amazing hobby/activity/sport but in life, there needs to be a healthy balance..sometimes we all are so consumed by something that we don't realize the other important things in life..lifting should be an enjoyable experience, not one that disruprts your mental stability

definitely

Upstatebuilder07
07-29-07, 4:06 pm
Im sure this has been mentioned before but how many of you are dealing with this. I feel that I am on the smaller side, certainerly smaller than I would like. Im 6'2 205lbs @8%bdf, tall lean, def some good developed muscle put not big by any means. My old lady dragged me out last night for the first time all summer and I couldn't tell you how many comments people made about me looking bigger, being a big dude even being called a giant by one. Im thinking to myself are you kidding me. Now just to say I don't aspire to be ronnie jay ect, or even 275. Id be completely content 225-240 range. Am I going crazy? is it just because of seeing guys like house and G, reading flex and MD seeing all the giants that have thrown my perception off. Is everyone else just puny and doesnt know what big is? How Many brothers out there feel the same?

Joker-Roo
07-29-07, 4:11 pm
Im sure this has been mentioned before but how many of you are dealing with this. I feel that I am on the smaller side, certainerly smaller than I would like. Im 6'2 205lbs @8%bdf, tall lean, def some good developed muscle put not big by any means. My old lady dragged me out last night for the first time all summer and I couldn't tell you how many comments people made about me looking bigger, being a big dude even being called a giant by one. Im thinking to myself are you kidding me. Now just to say I don't aspire to be ronnie jay ect, or even 275. Id be completely content 225-240 range. Am I going crazy? is it just because of seeing guys like house and G, reading flex and MD seeing all the giants that have thrown my perception off. Is everyone else just puny and doesnt know what big is? How Many brothers out there feel the same?


I'm getting that lately too. 6'3 210 and people are like man your getting huge.

Funny I was reading this, I was just sitting here, feeling my arms (not a all time thing) and my muscles seem really "flabby". I've come from 180 with no muscle.

Just wondering when i start to cut down will my muscle "hardness" show better? or is it in my diet right now why my muscles feel "soft" . Probably all in my head, I just need someone to clear this up.


To answer your question ya, I get that alot and just laugh at them and say, You just wait.


Andru

norrim1
07-29-07, 4:25 pm
Im sure this has been mentioned before but how many of you are dealing with this. I feel that I am on the smaller side, certainerly smaller than I would like. Im 6'2 205lbs @8%bdf, tall lean, def some good developed muscle put not big by any means. My old lady dragged me out last night for the first time all summer and I couldn't tell you how many comments people made about me looking bigger, being a big dude even being called a giant by one. Im thinking to myself are you kidding me. Now just to say I don't aspire to be ronnie jay ect, or even 275. Id be completely content 225-240 range. Am I going crazy? is it just because of seeing guys like house and G, reading flex and MD seeing all the giants that have thrown my perception off. Is everyone else just puny and doesnt know what big is? How Many brothers out there feel the same?

I think your perception is very accurate. I seen a special on TLC once about Greg Valentino. Basiclly, experts pointed out bodybuilders as having a similar perception of their body as do people with anorexia. I'm about 5' 10'' and 207 pounds with 12% bodyfat. A lot of people make remarks to me but when I look in the mirror I don't see myself in such ways. I think a lot has to do with our hunger to beeter ourselves and our physiques. When it's on your mind 24/7 you will always notice things that you can work on. The average person is just that, average. When we look at bigger guys we see a different view of "huge". I guess this is what seperates us from the people you mentioned. They don't have this drive for a bigger and better body.

Giant Killer
07-29-07, 4:44 pm
Check out "Muscle Dysmorphia is a Bitch"-post 12-there are several responses to it also.

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=2902

Upstatebuilder07
07-29-07, 4:44 pm
I'm getting that lately too. 6'3 210 and people are like man your getting huge.

Funny I was reading this, I was just sitting here, feeling my arms (not a all time thing) and my muscles seem really "flabby". I've come from 180 with no muscle.

Just wondering when i start to cut down will my muscle "hardness" show better? or is it in my diet right now why my muscles feel "soft" . Probably all in my head, I just need someone to clear this up.


To answer your question ya, I get that alot and just laugh at them and say, You just wait.


Andru


muscle hardness is strickly body fat % even if you have the smallest arms, if your BDF is low enough they will be hard. Also water retention plays a part try lowering your sodium intake and upping your H20 intake

stumblin54
07-29-07, 4:51 pm
GK, as I understand it, "little man syndrome" is a synonym for "Napolean complex," where littler guys feel the need to outdo normal sized or larger guys in every fashion possible. You don't have this, you have muscle dysmorphia...

Stumblin

Upstatebuilder07
07-29-07, 4:52 pm
Check out "Muscle Dysmorphia is a Bitch"-post 12-there are several responses to it also.

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=2902

thanks giant this is what i was looking for

Giant Killer
07-29-07, 4:54 pm
GK, as I understand it, "little man syndrome" is a synonym for "Napolean complex," where littler guys feel the need to outdo normal sized or larger guys in every fashion possible. You don't have this, you have muscle dysmorphia...

Stumblin

Yeah I talked about that in the thread too, how I titled it kinda' wrong.

I went back and edited it, now it's "Muscle Dysmorphia is a Bitch". Poof, magic Watchman power.

Giant Killer
07-29-07, 4:58 pm
thanks giant this is what i was looking for

There's some other good "articles/thoughts/rants" in there too that I have written from time to time.

stumblin54
07-29-07, 5:00 pm
Gotcha bro, my bad.

Stumblin

buckscarp1462
07-29-07, 5:09 pm
It's funny, when I graduated from HS in 1993 I was 5'9 133lbs. I am now 5'9 195lbs. 62lbs in 14 years I still see myself as a 133lb skinny kid.

Joker-Roo
07-29-07, 6:18 pm
muscle hardness is strickly body fat % even if you have the smallest arms, if your BDF is low enough they will be hard. Also water retention plays a part try lowering your sodium intake and upping your H20 intake

That could be the case, I'm a sucker for the cans of Chicken Noodle soup, gotta cut that shit out.


Andru

aa93085
07-29-07, 6:35 pm
I don't mean to instigate or cause any kind of strife here but "7," you bring up an excellent topic of muscle dysmorphia and then turn into a complicated philosphical discussion which can be completely avoided. I read your posts from past also and like I said, you merely state the obvious which all of us already know and attempt to give it a deeper meaning. Don't get me wrong as I am all for intellectual discussions as I am a medical student. But this is not the place for it as all of us come to this forum to hear stories of inspiration, motivation, or just help each other out. We try to get away from our daily life's complexities by coming to this forum. If Arnold, Jack La Lanne, Bill Pearl, Dave Draper, and other great bodybuilders of the past gave this much thought to the simple act of lifting and eating right on consistent basis, they wouldn't have gone so far in their lives or translated their successes into other areas of their life. So "7", we all appreciate your input but don't overcomplicate things. That can be easily be done by anyone. Instead, try to simplify things and then maybe we will see what is really important in life and progess ourselves to it.

P.S- Happy early 60th Birthday Arnold!

IRONJT
04-22-08, 8:30 pm
I got a big problem brothers...

I'm 5'10" 225 lbs 9.8% body fat with just over 17 inch arms and I'm only 18...i know that i am big for my age but i still feel small. Coming September i want to start dieting but am afraid that will just end up getting smaller and weaker...i need some help with this now before it gets worse, i just have this obsession with getting as big as possible, any advice would be helpful

ps i do not take any type of performance enhancing drugs...just straight up Pak, Pump, Creatine, and Glutamine

eblnyc
04-22-08, 8:33 pm
there is a thread called muscle dysmorphia..go read that...

GJN5002
04-22-08, 11:16 pm
i think we all feel that way. We are all in the game to get bigger and prob boardering on obsession. You'll get used to it I suppose, everytime I cut I have to tell myself I'll be an inch or so smaller but you wil be able to see the details rather than just the facade.

born0withno0soul
04-23-08, 3:41 am
calm down. like you said your only 18. you have years ahead of you

violator
04-23-08, 4:11 am
Bro, whether u believe it or not, those are fuckin impressive stats for a cat u age....
give it time, in 10yrs, ull be super freaky 4 sure.....just keep doin what ur doin, it looks like its workin to me....& dieting??????, at 9.8%, i wouldnt even worry about that right now, gettin below 8% is a tough place to stay at.....

ralf_snake
08-24-08, 5:13 pm
So its pretty much like this.

Im doing pretty good so far, im gaining weight and looking better. But the thing is. The more i look in the mirror the more it looks like i look punier, and still not gettign further allong what i really wanna look like.

You doing better with everything, but its seems like your going downwards.

Any of u got tips or help on this, maybe got it urself?

shizz702
08-24-08, 5:58 pm
Lol there really is a condition called bigorexia, read up on it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_dysmorphia

The opposite of anorexia, but obviously much healthier and better of a condition, cause rather than being obsessed with being skinny, and getting skinnier, we want to keep getting bigger.

Lol, don't worry about the mirror, bro, just train hard, eat well, and get plenty of sleep, repeat that process for a while and your gains will come.

mcbeast
08-24-08, 6:15 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder

Slight case of...?

Dont we all?

Hercules
08-24-08, 6:19 pm
Many of us on this site can relate. My personal take on it: we grow and develop ourselves, but remain in the same or similar proportions. We usually don't compare ourselves to any other objects when we stand in front of the mirror; we merely remember what we looked like 'before'. Let your clothing tell the tale. Fill out those sleeves and break the seams in the shoulders. That's how you can tell you're getting bigger...

Fury317
08-24-08, 6:22 pm
I was diagnosed about 4 years ago....nah haha just kidding

But seriously I hear ya on this one. You see yourself in the mirror and think "I aint shit, I need a lot of work, and I need to get a lot bigger". But trust me bro, its your mind fucking with you. It really is a disorder.

Just keep training hard, youre never going to be satisfied, so just know that. Keep improving and KNOW you are getting bigger and better

stumblin54
08-24-08, 6:30 pm
I take leg pictures from four angles every few months and compare them if I ever feel as if I'm not making progress. When you see them and the new you is bigger than the old you, it's a great feeling. If you're not bigger or just the exact same, you know you have some work to do. Snap photos of different parts of your body in order to actually see the progress first hand, not just from memory.

Stumblin

Carpe Diem P.T
08-24-08, 7:04 pm
sometimes it feels like you are treading water when you arent reaching for goals.

if you have clear goals set, you cant help but know if you are acheiving or failing. sounds like you need to take some girth measurements too. they dont lie. unless you take them in a different place the next time...

hatebreedXXX69
08-25-08, 4:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4j1obXY_2o&feature=related

interesting little video. my ideal physique would be like the hulk from marvel comics, so yeah comics have had an influence on me, as well as other factors in my childhood.

Flash419
08-25-08, 4:59 pm
I believe just about anyone who visits this Forum on a regular basis has 'BIGorexia' in some form or another. Bad thing... I don't think so. Everybody has there 'thing' they do, some guys drink and party, some guys become the 'dad' and do nothing but coach their kids teams, spending all of there time running Jr. from one thing to the next. We lift, eat and GROW. I believe everyone has a different view in their head of what they look like, as opposed to what is really them. That is why most people don't like how they look in a photograph. Maybe we do see ourselves as that small little kid that we were when we first step into a gym, and we all try desperately to be the HeMan or Hulk we remember from our childhood... but is that really a bad thing? We are all bigger, stronger and healthier then 99% of the adult population.... So, if Bigorexia is a disease... I'll take a double infection of it.

Orpheus333
08-25-08, 5:33 pm
It's funny, when I graduated from HS in 1993 I was 5'9 133lbs. I am now 5'9 195lbs. 62lbs in 14 years I still see myself as a 133lb skinny kid.

x2

Frosh year of college I was about 6'1" 155lbs. About 2 years ago I decided to change- right now I'm 207lbs but I still feel tiny, I certainly dont look like 207lbs so that doesn't help. It sucks. I'm absolutely terrified of losing weight but yet looking fat.


...I think I'd look solid at a lean 240. We'll see.

hatebreedXXX69
08-26-08, 3:51 am
I believe just about anyone who visits this Forum on a regular basis has 'BIGorexia' in some form or another. Bad thing... I don't think so. Everybody has there 'thing' they do, some guys drink and party, some guys become the 'dad' and do nothing but coach their kids teams, spending all of there time running Jr. from one thing to the next. We lift, eat and GROW. I believe everyone has a different view in their head of what they look like, as opposed to what is really them. That is why most people don't like how they look in a photograph. Maybe we do see ourselves as that small little kid that we were when we first step into a gym, and we all try desperately to be the HeMan or Hulk we remember from our childhood... but is that really a bad thing? We are all bigger, stronger and healthier then 99% of the adult population.... So, if Bigorexia is a disease... I'll take a double infection of it.

well said

Bigchrome
08-26-08, 8:44 am
all this talk about "normal" annoys me, Nobody is normal... there is no such thing really. But I think that since I got into the iron game I've felt a lot worse about my body in private than I have before.. I used to look in the mirror and think "dude I'm fucking huge!" and now I'm never happy, but I guess if I was I wouldn't keep pushing myself so I don't complain!! If that's how it's going to have to be for me to look great to everyone else I'll live with it.

mdh84
08-26-08, 10:06 am
I do believe that this is a very real condition, but I don't think that everyone who lifts weights to increase muscle mass has it. Does a girl who diets and exercises to stay in shape have anorexia because she thinks she is a little or even a lot overweight? No. When it becomes unhealthy and dangerous it becomes a big problem. I don't think that striving to be better can really be classified as a disorder. If this is the case, then do parents who want to be better parents have a disorder? I don't have kids so I don't really know, but do you get to a point where you say "I'm a good enough parent. I don't need to be a better parent anymore"? I doubt this is the case. When top athletes become the best basketball, football, or baseball player, they aren't going to stop training or practicing because they have reached the top. There is always the desire to better ourselves. That is the beauty of it. We all wanna be bigger. That's why we are here. I have gained 40 pounds in the last 5 years, but I still wanna put on another 40. I don't think we all have a mental disorder because we hold ourselves to a higher standard. My 2 cents

Universal Rep
08-26-08, 10:12 am
I think it's legit as well.

ROC1291
08-26-08, 10:16 am
I can't lie on this one... I look in the mirror at myself everyday and see if even the slightest improvements are being made, to the point where... somebody tells me i look so skinny (since i am on a cut now) than i was when they last saw me. but to me, I don't look any different.
Before I know it I'm going to be 3% bf and not even know it. I check the mirror alot, but everyone cares about their physique even if they want to believe it or not.

There are times (during baseball season) when i just sit back and relax but i still worry about my physique. I do this for the self will and determination, even though I realize I probably do have BDD, I don't see it as an overly bad thing. For me, My chest and back fat has always been an area of worry for me. Even though I'm the leanest I have ever been in my life, I still feel the same as I was when I was a fat kid in middle school. I'm on my journey to get some abs for the first time in my life and I can't wait. I will do whatever it fucking takes.

I realize nobody even cares what my body looks like as long as im not digustingly out of shape. Sure, ladies like to see a nice body and that has alot to do with it for me, but it's funny how I'm in the best shape of my life but can't seem to find any girls within site.

It's an ongoing process and it never ends. Sacrifice is where we all find ourselves at the end of the day.

Do I have goals in mind? yeah, i wanna be about 215 solid muscle... but I know by the time I get there, I'll want to look like Ox.

Big Wides
08-26-08, 12:16 pm
I like having whatever this is....it can only make you train harder, eat better and strive for whatever it is you want.

Torque757
08-26-08, 12:28 pm
I dont understand how someone with a disorder in which they perceive themselves to be smaller then they are would overtrain themselves. Obviously rest and time out of the gym are crucial to growth, so it seems someone that worried about being bigger would take that into consideration.

shizz702
08-27-08, 7:26 pm
I like having whatever this is....it can only make you train harder, eat better and strive for whatever it is you want.

I agree, I'd take bigorexia over anorexia anyday.

V Man
08-27-08, 8:08 pm
It seems to me that the more you want a particular physique - the worse you suffer from body image disorders.

e.g. if you DESPERATELY want to be thin and toned and slim and the thought of being fat makes you freak out (being overweight is your biggest fear, your worst nightmare) Or you were overweight as a child and it was utter misery, You have a very, very good chance of developing Anorexia. You'll look in the mirror and see a fat person. Its as if your sub concious brain is desperately trying not to make your fear a reality by making you want to diet harder. Sort of like a protection mechanism.

And the reverse if your a BB.

Like people who are scared of flying - Their worst fear is a horrific plane crash. They are so incredibly scared of this happening that their brain plays tricks on them and creates scary images in their mind when they even think about boarding a plane so that theres zero chance of them getting on and it becoming a reality, even though theres only a minute chance.

Its like any phobia - your brain is just trying to protect you from what you REALLY dont want. In bodybuilders case - being weak and small. Worst nightmare. In anorexics case - being fat - worst nightmare

ralf_snake
08-29-08, 5:36 pm
[Common symptoms and behaviors

There are many common symptoms and behaviors associated with BDD. Often these symptoms and behaviours are determined by the nature of the BDD sufferer's perceived defect, for example, use of cosmetics is most common in those with a perceived skin defect, therefore many BDD sufferers will only display a few common symptoms and behaviors.]

LOL WUT?

WeeMan
09-07-08, 4:00 pm
Good thing or bad? Real or imagined? Are comic books and cartoons really to blame? Discuss.
haha yes!
i would say that conan the barbarian and the destroyer are to blame for my frequent visits to the gym!

The Young One
09-09-08, 9:41 pm
2 years ago before i started lifting, i would always be with my friends who were much bigger than me but bc i grew up with them, i always thought and believed we were the same size... until we stepped into the weightroom. Now i have surpassed all of them and they tell me im big but i honestly dont believe them and still see myself as the "runt" of my friends.

Maniak Mack
09-22-08, 12:02 pm
I see a few of you are a lil misguided about this. Some of you are claiming that it's a good thing to have. O.K. Let's look beyond lifting.

This is not a condition that affects your body. This is a mental state. It parallels bi-polar, Depression and a whole slew of other mental conditions. It is a problem. And for some of you to say you’d welcome this shows a complete lack of knowledge about the iron game. It’s more that just lifting, eating, cardio and counting. Like every sport, this one has a dark side. And what makes this even more tragic is that Bodybuilding is seen as an individual sport. Many of us have no team to lean on when shit gets to us. There is no press conference to voice our concerns. Bodybuilding only makes the news when something bad happens (if that). So it’s up to us to, the practitioners, to maintain a healthy and responsible sport. Muscle Dysmorphia & "Bigarexia is a problem that affects more than just the one who looks in the mirror. It hurts their families and friends who sit and watch the suffering. I for one have experienced this with a friend of mine in high school. Needless to say, he now suffers from a weak heart, a failed marriage, estranged children, severely strained tendons and a constant pain of seeing himself as too small. But what hurts is to watch him cry because, even if he wanted to, he can do nothing about his size due to the extreme injuries he inflected upon himself.

IronWilson
09-22-08, 2:14 pm
I see a few of you are a lil misguided about this. Some of you are claiming that it's a good thing to have. O.K. Let's look beyond lifting.

This is not a condition that affects your body. This is a mental state. It parallels bi-polar, Depression and a whole slew of other mental conditions. It is a problem. And for some of you to say you’d welcome this shows a complete lack of knowledge about the iron game. It’s more that just lifting, eating, cardio and counting. Like every sport, this one has a dark side. And what makes this even more tragic is that Bodybuilding is seen as an individual sport. Many of us have no team to lean on when shit gets to us. There is no press conference to voice our concerns. Bodybuilding only makes the news when something bad happens (if that). So it’s up to us to, the practitioners, to maintain a healthy and responsible sport. Muscle Dysmorphia & "Bigarexia is a problem that affects more than just the one who looks in the mirror. It hurts their families and friends who sit and watch the suffering. I for one have experienced this with a friend of mine in high school. Needless to say, he now suffers from a weak heart, a failed marriage, estranged children, severely strained tendons and a constant pain of seeing himself as too small. But what hurts is to watch him cry because, even if he wanted to, he can do nothing about his size due to the extreme injuries he inflected upon himself.

Very well said, it makes me glad for what I have. It's a a sad truth that muscle dysmorphia goes unnoticed because of the complete lack of understanding for what it really is. If you look up Muscle Dysmorphia on Wikipedia, you will find a list of symptom which most all of us can associate with ourselves. However, I have never seen an article or any writing other than Maniak Mack's post that shows how it really renders the victim of this mental condition helpless.

futurefreak101
11-19-08, 6:31 pm
weighing in at almost 240 pounds...(see one of my previous threads for recent pic) i still fucking feel tiny...now..this sickness as i would like to call it...is it normal? honestly i feel like i weigh 120 pounds...anyone here have a similar situation? its like enough..is never fucking enough..

JeremyT
11-19-08, 7:24 pm
I feel exactly the same way all the time. I gained 30 pounds of muscle in the past 3 months, and when I look in the mirror I do not see anything different. I think its something that afflicts us all. I'm not sure if I will ever be satisfied with how I look.

TheRealDeal
11-23-08, 4:00 pm
How many guys/girls here honestly have it?

I can't stand this anymore...

If this isn't appropriate in any way feel free to take it down. I am in no way suggesting or condoning the use of AAS, this is just something I feel I need to post up because I have no one else that understands this;

Something awful is happening to me and I don't know why. The only emotions I'm feeling anymore are self hatred and disgust.

I started off with weights when I was 13. I got tired of being picked on. I got bigger, kids stopped picking on me. I stuck with this until I turned 15 and got serious with bodybuilding. I became well respected in high school and the people that used to pound on me, stopped. People respected me, but not out of fear. I had the sense of 'water under the bridge' with everyone who wronged me in the past.

The accusations came as they've come to all of us, about steroid use. "Hes on steroids/if I used AAS I would look that big" etc. You all know what I'm talking about. This started my sophomore and junior years.

Senior year midway through I decided why not, if they're going to accuse lets give them something to talk about. I decided long ago that I would use someday in my pursuit of bodybuilding competition. I started with testosterone and trenbolone, 400mg a week of both. I shot from 180 5'6 to nearly 195 lbs. I was lean, vascular, and had good size. I was hooked, I loved the way I looked and my newly found strength and size. I saw this as a stepping stone towards my ideal physique someday and later on in my lifetime, reaching the milestone of an IFBB pro card.

At 19 I decided to go for my first competition. I did the same cycle as before, just changed from longer lasting to quicker acting (enanthate to propionate and acetate) and threw in an oral too.

400mg of test prop and tren acetate for 8 weeks
50mg everyday of winstrol for the last four weeks.

I came in at 177 lbs and would've done well, but I had an allergic reaction to aldactone. I was born severely allergic to sulfa, and, nearly all diuretics are derivatives of sulfa...At the time I'd started dating a girl I had met in high school and pursued for quite some time. She knew of my usage, but I guess didn't know how risky it was since its a felony.

After this I rebounded back up to 195, and was pretty lean. I'd gained some water back, and newfound muscle. At this point I decided to do another cycle of testosterone, nandrolone, and dianabol. This time with higher doses to break over 210.

650mg of test
500mg of nandrolone both for 10 weeks
50mg of dianabol a day for the first six weeks.

This cycle went absolutely unbelievable. I went from 195 to a hulking 230 and I hadn't even turned 21 years old. I was on my way, everything was great. I had reached another stepping stone, breaking the 200lb barrier drastically.

At this point I decided to bridge between cycles, so I wouldn't lose any of my gains and to maintain a constant growth. I used 250mg of sustanon a week and 25mg of dianabol a day between cycles.

TheRealDeal
11-23-08, 4:05 pm
Now, I'd always had bloodwork done while on cycle (during and after). A close friend of mine had kidney failure (Mike Hoover) and had no symptoms/sides from AAS. The fact that he was taking ECA literally EVERYDAY I'm sure did not help any, but, none the less he made me promise to get bloodwork done. However, even with all of the precautions I did develop a serious medical condition; I developed sleep apnea.

My family always supported my dream of bodybuilding and new about the drugs in the sport, and so did my fiancee (for a time being....). I was visiting my mothers and was sleeping, just taking a nap on the couch when they woke me up, scared shitless. They realized I had not been breathing in my sleep. They had me do a sleep study at deaconess hospital, and sure enough I had severe sleep apnea. My doctor told me it was either drop weight, or be prepared to wear a mask while I slept for the rest of my life to keep myself breathing (thats the decision I made). NO WAY was I giving up what I had earned. She said the cause was that my neck had gotten so thick and that I had gotten so heavy for my height, (230+ at 5'6) that it just wasnt natural and my body was not used to it.

TheRealDeal
11-23-08, 4:14 pm
After this, the shit storm got worse. I had been receiving several knocks at my door from US postal inspectors. They wanted to speak with me about my research chemical/peptides business, and were wanting to inspect my mail, and home for AAS. They had reason to believe I was trafficking anabolic; (this was not true, I ran a research supply co)

I shut down the research chem company out of paranoia. At this point my fiancee said she would leave me if I did not stop pursuing my dreams. She said she supported me going to the gym, my eating, etc, but she would not tolerate me doing 'illegal things' because someday she wanted to raise a family. We both had valid points.

I thought it was a load of BS that she wanted to leave me for pursuing my dreams when I was upfront and honest with her from day 1. I told her this was a selfish sport, and that I would not give up my dreams for anyone.

However, after the heat was on me I guess it hit home and she realized the severity and that AAS users were being hunted down, like in a witch hunt per se. Its still that way at this moment.

It was in this moment I broke down, crying like a little bitch and told her I would give it all up (this was probably the stupidest fucking thing I ever did) because if I was going to marry this girl, and love her unconditionally, isn't the fact that she asked me to choose between my dream and her, conditional?

I've been off for a year now, I look like shit. Everyday is a constant struggle with how I look. I cannot stand my fucking reflection and I look at myself and wonder where I'd be right now if I kept pursuing my dream. I don't want to be a has been, or a never was.

Perhaps the most hurtful , and in a strange way, ironic thing about this all, as that before my fiancee and I were together, I helped her and supported her throughout her battle of anorexia....and now that I'm dealing with the opposite, shes constantly shitty with me, and telling me how shes tired of everyday being a struggle.

I'll update this later....

simpleguy
11-23-08, 4:30 pm
idk whether this will be taken down or not, but since it's still on, here's my two cents...

if you had an argument with her regarding your steroid use, besides it seems over the years it might also have caused that breathing problem when you sleep... it doesn't mean you should quit this... you can do this with or without gear.... sure the results won't be the same but you don't depend on steroids to fulfill your dreams, you get me? it's not like without them there's no sense in trying to constantly improve... it'll be harder, but you will get it done

now, since your problem seems to be too much weight for your body to handle, I'd do a few things:

1. focus on cutting, at least for a while... if you need to lose some weight, it's better for your body (and the way you look) it comes from fat, not lean mass... so be disciplined, do a cut, and see how you look like really 'ripped'... I mean you said at one point you were 230, where do you stand now, what weight, what bf? drop the bf and if you get to a ripped 200...I think you'll look really good...

2. whatever you do, try to eat and supplement as healthy as possible - live a healthier life from now on... I'm assuming you already know how to set up a diet plan, so eat healthy, get in those veggies, efas and fruits, maybe take in anti-oxidants such as green tea, vit C, glutamine


good luck bro, you can do this with or without gear, it's not a thing that controls your dreams and aspiration, it's you... focus on having a solid diet and training regimen, supplement wisely and you'll get the results you're looking for... stay strong

Bartles
11-23-08, 7:08 pm
good luck bro, you can do this with or without gear, it's not a thing that controls your dreams and aspiration, it's you... focus on having a solid diet and training regimen, supplement wisely and you'll get the results you're looking for... stay strong

Definitely man, stuff in life is always going to be up and down. Just remember you don't need it, just work through it and you will be alright.

And bro, check your body out. You don't have to give up the life, just do away with the juice. How are your legs looking, how are your abs looking? I would think you can work those more and still loose enough weight to look big, stay strong and MOST IMPORTANTLY stay breathing.

This game is big stuff for me too bro, I think about it all day at work/ school, before I go to bed, shoot I even wake up thinking about lifting but you know what man. You can't lift if you can't breathe.

If you ever need support, come here and well help you anyway we can man. Just stick with it man. ( And I'm sure your girl is working with you the best way possible, when I stopped smoking & drinkin I swear no one was helping me and now that I look back almost everyone in my life was pushing me to a new and healthier life style)

You can do it!

TheRealDeal
11-23-08, 10:13 pm
I'm around 217 now using my animal staples. I'm dropping down to about 200, its just that, the thing with gear...in todays IFBB world, its a must to be up there with coleman, victor, etc....I'm just afraid when it comes time to make the decision, I wont know whats right. There are other women out there who support the lifestyle. This is just hard to even think/talk about. I thank all of you for the support. I will get some pictures up soon. Theres some old ones on here from a couple years back when I was 8 weeks out from my first show.

raunchy
11-23-08, 11:55 pm
I'd love to see some picks of you man. I'm about 5'7 and always wondered what it's gonna be like to be stacked beyond belief at this height. I'll be checking up, what a struggle.

FireFighter85
11-24-08, 12:41 am
yea man, you can do it without the gear. I think all of us that havent used have toyed with the idea but we all need to remember all the size and strength aside, what are we really working out for? for your physical health ultimately yeah sure it is rewarding in so many other ways and Im not saying steroids are the devil and all that shit. I understand that there isnt enough research on them either way, and there are safe ways to go about it. but if you can gain the size without "gear" "roids" whatever the gains are just that much sweeter. we all got your back bro and we all have struggles with our body.. thats why were all here

smith06
11-24-08, 12:58 am
for your physical health ultimately yeah sure it is rewarding in so many other ways and Im not saying steroids are the devil and all that shit.

No...man...i really could give a fuck less about physical health. My favorite saying is "I dont give a fuck if I die, as long as they bury me in a big fucking box".

I grew up always being the fat kid. Now I'm in the best shape ive ever been in. Around 24o at prolly 15-18%. And I just wanna get bigger. But I'm in police academy so I gota focus on my running (Never could fucking run). So I dont eat to gain size and I don't do squats or deads so I can run on a regular basis. It's put me in a serious depression. I'm stuck in an awful rut. I cant wait to be done with school so I can blow up, do some fucking squats, and actually eat like I got a fucking pair hanging.

sorry bout ranting...but I had to get some shit off my chest.

FireFighter85
11-24-08, 2:29 am
No...man...i really could give a fuck less about physical health. My favorite saying is "I dont give a fuck if I die, as long as they bury me in a big fucking box".

I grew up always being the fat kid. Now I'm in the best shape ive ever been in. Around 24o at prolly 15-18%. And I just wanna get bigger. But I'm in police academy so I gota focus on my running (Never could fucking run). So I dont eat to gain size and I don't do squats or deads so I can run on a regular basis. It's put me in a serious depression. I'm stuck in an awful rut. I cant wait to be done with school so I can blow up, do some fucking squats, and actually eat like I got a fucking pair hanging.

sorry bout ranting...but I had to get some shit off my chest.

yes. I think we all grew up being the fat kid... seems to be the common story around here if not the fat kid the skinny kid. I understand where youre comin from sayin you just wanna get bigger. I dont go into the gym like "fuck yeah! Im about to get healthier!!" my main purpose is to get bigger, stronger.. but if I dont stay healthy how can I get bigger ad stronger.. so indirectly you kinda are worryin about your physical health. do you wanna be the cop that cant catch anyone in a foot pursuit? think about that... running sucks. I fucking hate it, I know what youre goin through bc I had to do the same shit during fire academy... sucks but once youre done you can be a monster again.

mdh84
11-24-08, 4:14 am
I'm around 217 now using my animal staples and some phera plex. I'm dropping down to about 200, its just that, the thing with gear...in todays IFBB world, its a must to be up there with coleman, victor, etc....I'm just afraid when it comes time to make the decision, I wont know whats right. There are other women out there who support the lifestyle. This is just hard to even think/talk about. I thank all of you for the support. I will get some pictures up soon. Theres some old ones on here from a couple years back when I was 8 weeks out from my first show.

Whatever you decide to do, start deciding now so by the time you need to make that decision, you WILL know what to do and what is right. There are guys that make it as IFBB pros naturally. It's probably not common, but it does happen. About your girl, you obviously care for her. You asked her to marry you and you quit using drugs for the last year because of her. Sure, there may be women out there who will support the lifestyle, but is that what you want? When you're in your 50s and 60s and you look back at today, which would've been the better choice? Would you rather have a loving family with this woman or a mantle above the fireplace full of trophies? I'm all for following your dreams man, but if my girl gave me that ultimatum and I truly wanted a future with her, there would be no question about what I would choose. I kind of know what it's like to have your dreams smashed and you feel like you're getting crapped on. it's tough but you'll get through it. Remember, you've got plenty of support here. Good luck bro.

Suleiman
12-15-08, 8:32 pm
am actually surprised that they isn't a thread on this.

Any way body dis morphia anybody have this condition and would like to share or shed light on the topic...

i much appreciate it

Pizzalamp
12-15-08, 9:09 pm
am actually surprised that they isn't a thread on this.

Any way body dis morphia anybody have this condition and would like to share or shed light on the topic...

i much appreciate it

i think there were a few threads a while back

bodydismorphia is quite real my friend, quite real
in the gym, the feeling of intensity is real...but to some it doesnt even exist
In the supplement stores, you can't buy passion...but most have it
In the bodybuilding universe, muscle dismorphia is real...a little too real im afraid
Deep down inside the hearts of even the biggest baddest mofo out there...there is still the little guy that wears sweat shirts in the gym to make himself look bigger
We all want to be bigger...we all think we arent big enough...were never satisfied until we have reached the image our imagination has forged in our eyes
For some, body dismorphia is minor...but always there
But to others...it consumes their every waking thought

Good luck my fellow iron warrior...

Little Z
12-15-08, 9:55 pm
i think there were a few threads a while back

bodydismorphia is quite real my friend, quite real
in the gym, the feeling of intensity is real...but to some it doesnt even exist
In the supplement stores, you can't buy passion...but most have it
In the bodybuilding universe, muscle dismorphia is real...a little too real im afraid
Deep down inside the hearts of even the biggest baddest mofo out there...there is still the little guy that wears sweat shirts in the gym to make himself look bigger
We all want to be bigger...we all think we arent big enough...were never satisfied until we have reached the image our imagination has forged in our eyes
For some, body dismorphia is minor...but always there
But to others...it consumes their every waking thought

Good luck my fellow iron warrior...

Amen brother..

sodapop
12-16-08, 7:48 am
I've been wondering if I'll develop this as I get bigger. Obviously I think I'm much too small now, but I wonder if that will stay with me...

IronWilson
12-16-08, 10:19 am
I've been wondering if I'll develop this as I get bigger. Obviously I think I'm much too small now, but I wonder if that will stay with me...

It probably will. A lot of guys start hitting the weights just to get that coveted six pack or big biceps. Then their love for weightlifting builds from there. They get to where they thought they wanted to go, and realize that its no longer good enough for them. This has happened to me and a lot of other people.

rocky36
12-16-08, 2:09 pm
for me it started when i was still in high school . i was pretty big for my age and height and i was one of the strongest in my class. i never thouhgt of my self as being to small until one day in the winter i got a membership to this hole in the wall gym, it had everything and was hardcore as hell. I still go there. But anyways i went in on my first day and seen some pretty big dudes, i envied them. a couple months later we got a new guy, he is abosoluty huge,freakishly huge, scary big. he wasnt ripped or but wasnt fat by any means. i was still 17 and i weighed about 190 so i wasnt exactly small but just seeing him in person, moving the amount of weight he did just left a perminant image in my brain. it made me obsessed with becomming bigger

stumblin54
12-16-08, 4:56 pm
The funny thing about this is that it comes on worse for me as I gain mass. When I'm over 300 pounds I feel the smallest...the mind is a strange place.

Stumblin

Wasteland
12-17-08, 4:44 pm
The funny thing about this is that it comes on worse for me as I gain mass. When I'm over 300 pounds I feel the smallest...the mind is a strange place.

Stumblin

So if you were to lose weight, the feeling would diminish somewhat?

stumblin54
12-18-08, 4:11 am
Guess as I get cut up, then it would diminish somewhat yes. My perception of big versus big and conditioned is a little ambiguous, and I'm not sure what I enjoy being more.

Stumblin

7
11-03-09, 4:47 pm
I've been wondering if I'll develop this as I get bigger. Obviously I think I'm much too small now, but I wonder if that will stay with me...

Depends on who you ask. If it's a mental illness like other mental illnesses, you either have it or you don't.

JUGGERNAUT
11-03-09, 5:16 pm
I still have a vintage Spiderman comic to this day with a Jacked Lizard creature he battled.... I wanted to be jacked like that lizard as a child...nuff said. Many years later here I am as the JUGGERNAUT and aka mutant...

Do I stare at myself in a mirror? Hell no. Obsessed about diet and training? Nope but get it done like it's part of the day.

Some fantasy is ok but don't be twisted about it.

msktyshha
11-03-09, 10:05 pm
Looking at the physiques of pro bodybuilder's, strongmen, various athletes and some big dudes in the gym makes me feel that I am not big enough , but when I am at work and college around normal Joe's then I feel as if I am a little too big. basically it's the same concept as the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" For me it's a good thing that at many times I think I am not big enough because I keep trying harder and harder to be even more bigger. IT'S NEVER ENOUGH!!!

craig028
11-06-09, 7:13 pm
hey everybody first reply to a post but as far as bigorexia

craig028
11-06-09, 7:16 pm
lol as i was saying as far as it goes there is a fine line between seeing yourself as small because you know you can get bigger, leaner and the phsycological state of mind where you really see yourself in the mirror in a distorted form and have no real grasp on your body, 285lb monster ripped to the bone who doesnt miss a meal or a training session and knows he is big but still trains balls to the wall-completely fine thats just dedication but dude who trains so long his muscle falls of the bone its so overworked is somebody who needs help.

Deathride
11-06-09, 7:54 pm
Ii agree with most of the above. In my current enviroment of existence (working as a doc in a hospital), I feel large. And, i'll admit, that's the feeling I like. But to me...that isn't bigorexia.

I obviously watch videos of pro-bodybuilders and powerlifters, but am well aware that I will never look like them. To me, its a lie perpetuated by magazines and articles ('burst your biceps in 12 days' etc)...that convince the naive they can be thiis size when it takes years (and maybe anabolics) to do it!

Hell, I'm happy being bigger than I was! If I can be bigger than i am now, that's my next goal! Then, I'll continue the trend...........never compare to anyone but yourself. D