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MAXGYVER
09-05-07, 3:58 am
Hey OX! Just read an article on you in MD "Future Freaks" in my opinion you are already quite freaky, (excellent back/overall physique). keep up the good work
I am coming to the end of my bulking phase and m gonna try cutting using a 0 carb plan. I have got a "cutting stack" from ANIMAL. PAK, Cuts, Nitro. Now on the Nitro label it says "Take within 30 mins pwo" as well as "Wait 30 mins after taking Nitro before taking PWO shake" and finally..."Take Nitro with 8 0z of juice"
So here's my question/s.
Will waiting for PWO shake reduce recovery?
(I use 30g Whey, water, dextrose)
Will using Nitro with juice spike my insulin levels too high? Alternative?
How would you put it all together?

Long winded I know, thanks for your time though OX.

xenrus
09-05-07, 4:32 am
Hey Ox!Firts of i'd ike to thank you for your dedication and help!Strengh and honour brother!I've read you recon no carb diet all the way through , usually i do that but as you say i'm not strict to it enough.Im running the cuts cycles now with no carbs,but i go with universal LAVA shake after workout which are sugars n carbs. and the second thing is after a 3 week cycle would it be better to continue with no carbs or carb up a little before the next cycle ,n what is the best way to go out of the strict no carb diet.My foundational protein source is a no carb milk product which makes your body holds water a little bit , now is it reasonable to eat it since i'm trying to get rid of water , the only thing is it would be hard for me to keep up with the protein intake without this product.Thanks again Ox!

krazyassmexican
09-05-07, 7:01 am
Your progress sounds good. I don't know why you'd be getting dizzy though? How much cardio are you doing?

i am doing 45minutes

on my off days like wednesday i'll be doing some abs calves and sometimes forearms then i'll try to do 50 or 55 minutes of cardio since i got more time

i am thinking on gettin a week off from work so i can hit cardio before my breakfast and then after weights on the afternoon

Ox
09-05-07, 9:16 am
Ox, one more for you. How many calories per pound do you recommend? Or do you not even look at that, do you just adjust by how you look and feel?

I don;t formulate calories/lb. I go off the protein requirement of 1.5g / lb and base my fat intake off of that and you could come up with # based on that. Precontest it' s a 1:1 caloric ratio of fat to protein. Offseason a 1:1:1 caloric ratio of fat:protein:carbs.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:21 am
Ok..dumbass question here but I have to ask. Im in a clean bulk mode now and the .carbs help me gain bigtime.. Is this zero carb thing gonna help me to gain or maintain lean muscle? Maybe the test run will be just that huh..a test run to see how my body will actually respond to it. I just dont want to lose any muscle I may have gained so far. Since June 23, I went from 110lbs to 124now. Im aware the start of this new diet will be draining, Im used to that when I start carb cycling anyway. Im just concerned about still gaining cause I still will be lifting heavy and taking supps.

Do you think its a big deal if I did more fat than you suggest? So if my fats come to 90g per day and I did 100g+...is that a big issue or does it have to be precise? I have no idea what calories I take in..I never measured calories before. This is very new to me..so I have to ask these questions..sorry. Im just intrigued by your methods and actually, my boy Diesel1972 here, new member, he is a zero carb guy too and is like you..phenomenal shape and conditioning even in his off season. He is 5"10, 240lbs of hard solid muscle. He competes for NPC. So, he thinks I should try this as well.

thanks for your time. I will start sunday.

I doubt that you will continue to gain size but you will definitely look bigger. You are definitely going to drop weight though, especially in the first couple of weeks. But your energy and strength will be great. I just dpn;t want you to get freaked out the first 2-3 weeks because things get so much better after that. I think you'll be fine with 80g. I'm taking in 130g right now and I'm 270 lbs. Give it a try just stick with it and don't freak out.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:31 am
Hey OX! Just read an article on you in MD "Future Freaks" in my opinion you are already quite freaky, (excellent back/overall physique). keep up the good work
I am coming to the end of my bulking phase and m gonna try cutting using a 0 carb plan. I have got a "cutting stack" from ANIMAL. PAK, Cuts, Nitro. Now on the Nitro label it says "Take within 30 mins pwo" as well as "Wait 30 mins after taking Nitro before taking PWO shake" and finally..."Take Nitro with 8 0z of juice"
So here's my question/s.
Will waiting for PWO shake reduce recovery?
(I use 30g Whey, water, dextrose)
Will using Nitro with juice spike my insulin levels too high? Alternative?
How would you put it all together?

Long winded I know, thanks for your time though OX.

Thanks man. What issue of MD is that? Take the aminos immediately PWO. Waiting 30 min for your shakw will allow the aminos to do their thing and get into your bloodstream and no, it won't hurt recovery. Trust me, Nitro is a bad ass product, one of Animal's best in my opinion, and they will have you recupersating faster, your muscles wll feel fuller, and you will have more energy. Just take as directed. If it were me setting it up, I'd slam a couple packs of Nitro with a serving of Torrent PWO and wait 30 min and then have your whey (Ultra Iso Whey is a solid option for PWO). This setup is ideal. The abundance and efficiency of aminos you'll be getting from the Nitro and the Torrent, plus creatine and the carb blend in the Torrent, you'll be shuttling it all straight to your muscles and your insulin will be just right for when you slug your protein down to shuttle that too. Trust me, this is a badass setup.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:35 am
Hey Ox!Firts of i'd ike to thank you for your dedication and help!Strengh and honour brother!I've read you recon no carb diet all the way through , usually i do that but as you say i'm not strict to it enough.Im running the cuts cycles now with no carbs,but i go with universal LAVA shake after workout which are sugars n carbs. and the second thing is after a 3 week cycle would it be better to continue with no carbs or carb up a little before the next cycle ,n what is the best way to go out of the strict no carb diet.My foundational protein source is a no carb milk product which makes your body holds water a little bit , now is it reasonable to eat it since i'm trying to get rid of water , the only thing is it would be hard for me to keep up with the protein intake without this product.Thanks again Ox!

I would switch up LAVA for Ultra Iso Whey PWO. Trust me, the low carb thing will hurt you. You want zero for maximum benefit. You'll FEEL so much better and you'll drop more fat. After 3 weeks your just getting rolling, do not carb up. Once per week have a cheat MEAL though where you can eat much carbs as you want. Scrap the milk product. Just mix your sjakes with water. If you have to add more protein or anoithe rmeal or a can of Tuna, whatever, to meet your protein requirement then just do it. Good luck.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:36 am
i am doing 45minutes

on my off days like wednesday i'll be doing some abs calves and sometimes forearms then i'll try to do 50 or 55 minutes of cardio since i got more time

i am thinking on gettin a week off from work so i can hit cardio before my breakfast and then after weights on the afternoon

Bump the cardio up 10 min each week until you feel that doing more would be unnecessary.

ChandlerXJ
09-05-07, 9:40 am
Ox - this contest with you hopefully coaching us is going to be ridiculous. Every time I read a post you're like "trust me, don't freak out, this will work"... gets me pumped up. I think we're going to have some success - and if we do, you'll be able to point people to us to get their zero carb questions out.

I am interested in your 1:1:1 ratio on the off season. If I am not mistaken, that's not THAT much food, compared to a 0 fat 2:1 ratio, for example.

I think it would be hard to get it right off season with shakes and stuff though, most shakes like real gains are about 2:1, but I guess you could throw in a scoop of isolate to bring it up to 1:1, then some coconut oil to round it out.

krazyassmexican
09-05-07, 9:42 am
Bump the cardio up 10 min each week until you feel that doing more would be unnecessary.

i will man thanks for taking care of us

xenrus
09-05-07, 9:57 am
Thanks a lot Ox!appreciate your help , will do my best

Toni69
09-05-07, 11:02 am
Ox babe..if I do this and I do freak out, you know who is going to be the first person to hear me freak out right? Hmmm, YOU!!!! LOL

Its ok..I promise I wont yell at you. I will just ask a million more questions. I pm'd you.

gsb239
09-05-07, 12:19 pm
Hey Ox,

I got a question about your offseason diet. I`m not sure if its been asked before or not... but do you stay with zero carb even in the offseason? Can you continue to make gains in ketosis mode or do you eat carbs to gain mass?

Thanks!

MAXGYVER
09-05-07, 1:23 pm
Thanks man. What issue of MD is that? Take the aminos immediately PWO. Waiting 30 min for your shakw will allow the aminos to do their thing and get into your bloodstream and no, it won't hurt recovery. Trust me, Nitro is a bad ass product, one of Animal's best in my opinion, and they will have you recupersating faster, your muscles wll feel fuller, and you will have more energy. Just take as directed. If it were me setting it up, I'd slam a couple packs of Nitro with a serving of Torrent PWO and wait 30 min and then have your whey (Ultra Iso Whey is a solid option for PWO). This setup is ideal. The abundance and efficiency of aminos you'll be getting from the Nitro and the Torrent, plus creatine and the carb blend in the Torrent, you'll be shuttling it all straight to your muscles and your insulin will be just right for when you slug your protein down to shuttle that too. Trust me, this is a badass setup.
Thank you very much man. The issue of MD was April 2007, vol 44 # 4.
The article on you was "New jack back attack!"
I have 1 more question for you. Is the grape juice sufficient enough for me to cut out the dextrose in my pwo shake? I just don't wanna go out of ketosis.
Thanks again OX.

waugie14
09-05-07, 2:01 pm
I would adjust the diet and the cardio. How much cardio are you doing? Whatever you are doing I would bump it up 10 min each week. I would also alternate two days of your current diet and then to days with the sma efood minus the fats. I guarantee you'll bust through your plateau. Are you using Animal Cuts?

Cardio is 30min morning, 15min post workout 4days with 2HIIT's on off days. Can you elaborate on the diet part more, don't really understand? No I haven't tried Cuts or used a fat burner. Im into my 4th month of cutting as well. Thanks.

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:24 pm
I don;t formulate calories/lb. I go off the protein requirement of 1.5g / lb and base my fat intake off of that and you could come up with # based on that. Precontest it' s a 1:1 caloric ratio of fat to protein. Offseason a 1:1:1 caloric ratio of fat:protein:carbs.


Wanna make sure I have this straight. If I am eating 1000 calories a day in protein I should also be eating 1000 calories a day in fat?

And since I have a lot of bodyfat to lose would you recommend zero carb like your precontest plan? And can I eat any green veggies on zero carb?

Evan, sorry for being such a pain in the ass, but if I am gonna do it I want to do it right.

brandonA
09-05-07, 7:36 pm
Wanna make sure I have this straight. If I am eating 1000 calories a day in protein I should also be eating 1000 calories a day in fat?

And since I have a lot of bodyfat to lose would you recommend zero carb like your precontest plan? And can I eat any green veggies on zero carb?

Evan, sorry for being such a pain in the ass, but if I am gonna do it I want to do it right.

If you are eating 1000 grams of protien a day, you should be eating 1000 grams of fat a day, cals are what they are after you hit that ratio....Ox told me that any green veggie was good..hope that helped bro....Ox sorry to step on your thread...

-B

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:43 pm
If you are eating 1000 grams of protien a day, you should be eating 1000 grams of fat a day, cals are what they are after you hit that ratio....Ox told me that any green veggie was good..hope that helped bro....Ox sorry to step on your thread...

-B


Thanks B, that is what I thought but we always want to make sure.

brandonA
09-05-07, 7:44 pm
Thanks B, that is what I thought but we always want to make sure.

no worries bro, I had to re-read it a bunch to make sure I was telling you the right shit...dont want to lead you down the wrong path...

-B

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:46 pm
no worries bro, I had to re-read it a bunch to make sure I was telling you the right shit...dont want to lead you down the wrong path...

-B



Wait, a 1000 grams of protein is 4000 calories, a 1000 grams of fat is 9000 calories. Is it match grams or calories?

brandonA
09-05-07, 7:47 pm
Wait, a 1000 grams of protein is 4000 calories, a 1000 grams of fat is 9000 calories. Is it match grams or calories?

grams i do believe.....but the 1000g's was just an example...that is a shit load of protien....could get expensive...hahahahha....

-B

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:50 pm
grams i do believe.....

-B


So at my bodyweight I would eat 420 grams of protein for 1680 calories then I eat 420 grams of fat for 3780 calories based on the prescribed 1.5 grams of protein per pound?

brandonA
09-05-07, 7:54 pm
So at my bodyweight I would eat 420 grams of protein for 1680 calories then I eat 420 grams of fat for 3780 calories based on the prescribed 1.5 grams of protein per pound?

looks right..looks like a lot of cals too....5,460...

-B

but here he says.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox
I don;t formulate calories/lb. I go off the protein requirement of 1.5g / lb and base my fat intake off of that and you could come up with # based on that. Precontest it' s a 1:1 caloric ratio of fat to protein. Offseason a 1:1:1 caloric ratio of fat:protein:carbs.

i think that the magic phrase is caloric ratio....so if you take the 420 grams of protien for 1680 cals the you would match the fat cals to match...so you would have 1680 cals pr and 1680 cals fat....I think that is what he means...sorry math takes me a while...

-B

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:56 pm
looks right..looks like a lot of cals too....5,460...

-B


Can't be right. Way too much fat.

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 7:57 pm
Just read Ox's post on it. It is a 1 to 1 caloric ratio. So if I eat 1680 calories of protein I also eat 1680 calories of fats. That makes way more sense. The other way I would be eating butter, LOL

brandonA
09-05-07, 7:59 pm
Just read Ox's post on it. It is a 1 to 1 caloric ratio. So if I eat 1680 calories of protein I also eat 1680 calories of fats. That makes way more sense. The other way I would be eating butter, LOL


I was fixing up my last post...the light bulb when off at the same time....gotta read the fine print...hahahah....

-B

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 8:00 pm
I was fixing up my last post...the light bulb when off at the same time....gotta read the fine print...hahahah....

-B


I guess if I could read we would have never had this conversation. Thanks for the help B, I appreciate it Brother. Now we both know, huh??

brandonA
09-05-07, 8:03 pm
I guess if I could read we would have never had this conversation. Thanks for the help B, I appreciate it Brother. Now we both know, huh??

that is what 3 college degress between us? hahahaahaha.....funny shit, neither one of us can read...lol...

Ox sorry for taking up the space bro...

-B

kyderz
09-05-07, 8:12 pm
so did you guys figure out what you needed?

lol.

x calories to x calories.

:]

brandonA
09-05-07, 8:15 pm
so did you guys figure out what you needed?

lol.

x calories to x calories.

:]

Our minds are not as young and sharp as yours...we'll mines not, wont speak for LD...hahahah....

-B

ChandlerXJ
09-05-07, 9:11 pm
from what I understand from ox and he will correct usia we are wrong - you need to eat protein and fats gram for gram, calories dont matter. At 202 I would be eating 303 g protein and 303 g fats - calories? With this diest i guess yiu say"Who cares" I guess.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:54 pm
Hey Ox,

I got a question about your offseason diet. I`m not sure if its been asked before or not... but do you stay with zero carb even in the offseason? Can you continue to make gains in ketosis mode or do you eat carbs to gain mass?

Thanks!

In the offseason I take in the same amount of carbs as protein. You need the carbs to really GROW.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:56 pm
Thank you very much man. The issue of MD was April 2007, vol 44 # 4.
The article on you was "New jack back attack!"
I have 1 more question for you. Is the grape juice sufficient enough for me to cut out the dextrose in my pwo shake? I just don't wanna go out of ketosis.
Thanks again OX.

If you're worried about going out of ketosis then go with no carbs PWO. Branch chain aminos have their own unique properties and will work just fine on their own. I'd take 2 paks PWO and then have your ISO Whey 30 min later. Lose the carbs.

Ox
09-05-07, 9:59 pm
Wanna make sure I have this straight. If I am eating 1000 calories a day in protein I should also be eating 1000 calories a day in fat?

And since I have a lot of bodyfat to lose would you recommend zero carb like your precontest plan? And can I eat any green veggies on zero carb?

Evan, sorry for being such a pain in the ass, but if I am gonna do it I want to do it right.

That is correct. 1000 calories from protein = 250g protein. 1000 calories from fat = 110g. So you would take in 250g of protein and 110g of fats spaced over six meals. I would stick to spinach, alfalfa sprouts, small servings of broccoli.

Ox
09-05-07, 10:04 pm
from what I understand from ox and he will correct usia we are wrong - you need to eat protein and fats gram for gram, calories dont matter. At 202 I would be eating 303 g protein and 303 g fats - calories? With this diest i guess yiu say"Who cares" I guess.

That's incorrect. YOU NEED TO GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF CALORIES FROM PROTEIN AS FROM FAT. REMEMBER THAT PROTEIN HAS 4 CALORIES PER GRAM AND FATS HAVE 9 CALORIES PER GRAM. For example if you weigh 250 lbs and go by the 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight that would bring you to 375 g of protein per day. That equates to 1500 calories because protein has 4 calories per gram. So to get 1500 calories from fat you would need 165 g because fats have 9 calories per gram. So you woul have a 3000 calorie diet comprised of 375g of protein and 165g of fat. I hope this helps.

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 10:32 pm
That is correct. 1000 calories from protein = 250g protein. 1000 calories from fat = 110g. So you would take in 250g of protein and 110g of fats spaced over six meals. I would stick to spinach, alfalfa sprouts, small servings of broccoli.



Thanks Ox, you are the man.

ChandlerXJ
09-05-07, 11:49 pm
ox you've cleared it up. thank the lord haha...

can't wait for the contest!

To sum it up for yall...

Take your weight... multiply by 1.5 to get how many grams of protein per day...

take that number, multiply it by 4 to get how many calories this would be...

take the number of calories and divide it by 9 to figure out how many grams of fat you need...

Hell yeah...

What about off season - same formula, just add in the carbs? how many calories per g of carb?

Lowdown5
09-05-07, 11:53 pm
ox you've cleared it up. thank the lord haha...

can't wait for the contest!

To sum it up for yall...

Take your weight... multiply by 1.5 to get how many grams of protein per day...

take that number, multiply it by 4 to get how many calories this would be...

take the number of calories and divide it by 9 to figure out how many grams of fat you need...

Hell yeah...

What about off season - same formula, just add in the carbs? how many calories per g of carb?


Carbs have 4 calories per gram just like proteins.

MAXGYVER
09-06-07, 2:05 am
If you're worried about going out of ketosis then go with no carbs PWO. Branch chain aminos have their own unique properties and will work just fine on their own. I'd take 2 paks PWO and then have your ISO Whey 30 min later. Lose the carbs.

Thank you once again.
Having someone you can look to for motivation, and inspiration is unique. To have that same person take their time and help you out is a blessing.
It has been said countless times on this thread but... YOU ARE THE MAN OX!

Toni69
09-06-07, 2:57 am
Just read Ox's post on it. It is a 1 to 1 caloric ratio. So if I eat 1680 calories of protein I also eat 1680 calories of fats. That makes way more sense. The other way I would be eating butter, LOL

babe..not 1680g of fat! Ox doesnt eat that much..you mean 168g and still babe..Ox doesnt eat that much now as he diets for Nationals. I think he is at 130g fat now...something in that ballpark.

I think you meant 168g right? LOL

I eat now about 60g and still clean..so I would be around 90g maybe? I weigh 124 and eat about 185g protein per day..give or take.

This is very interesting and I have been doing my hw since Ox came about here with this cause I never supported the zero carb thing till he came here and shared his experiences and knowledge about it. So thank you Ox...you shed some light on the subject for all of us.

I do think its may not be for everyone..but its worth trying to find out if it is or not. I have to wait for approval still. Even though Im free from the balls and chain of my Boss V...(hope he doesnt see that! LOL), during my bulk phase..NPC Chicka is in charge of my training and bulking now..so she has to gimme the go..but with my power training coming up, I dont know how the diet and that sort of intense training will work together.

I will be in touch..but for you Lowdown5...looks good for you.

Lowdown5
09-06-07, 9:40 am
Ox and Toni recommended, 2 names I know that I trust.

Toni69
09-06-07, 10:41 am
Ox and Toni recommended, 2 names I know that I trust.

thank you! and I re-read your other post..I see what you meant..calories FROM fat...my mistake. I have a habit of reading too fast. Ok Ox..now that you stimulated everyone's brain to do some math...I have a headache from all the math! LOL...Im out..be back soon...Peace!

Lowdown5
09-06-07, 11:28 am
thank you! and I re-read your other post..I see what you meant..calories FROM fat...my mistake. I have a habit of reading too fast. Ok Ox..now that you stimulated everyone's brain to do some math...I have a headache from all the math! LOL...Im out..be back soon...Peace!


Took me a couple of times to figure it out too and math is my thing.

krazyassmexican
09-06-07, 1:14 pm
hey brother
i decided to change the spinach for some romaine lettuce and broccoli

am i still being ketogenic like this or should i go back to spinach again? =(

Ox
09-06-07, 7:21 pm
hey brother
i decided to change the spinach for some romaine lettuce and broccoli

am i still being ketogenic like this or should i go back to spinach again? =(

That's fine. But A) don't eat too much lettuce because that will stretch your stomach and then you will be hungry and have a distended abodomen :) and B) don' t eat too much broccoli because because it does have carbs in it. Stick to 1 1/2 cup lettuce or 1 cup broccoli.

krazyassmexican
09-06-07, 9:24 pm
That's fine. But A) don't eat too much lettuce because that will stretch your stomach and then you will be hungry and have a distended abodomen :) and B) don' t eat too much broccoli because because it does have carbs in it. Stick to 1 1/2 cup lettuce or 1 cup broccoli.

i've been eating 1 cup and a half of lettuce plus like 3 or 4 small broccoli spears what u think?

Shark
09-06-07, 11:21 pm
i've been eating 1 cup and a half of lettuce plus like 3 or 4 small broccoli spears what u think?

Hey Krazy, mind if I ask why you are shying from the spinach? I get fresh organic baby spinach leaves and they leave me more full than twice as much lettuce could. Not to mention I like the fiber, you need it on this diet.

I have looked at a couple bags of lettuce out there, there are high carb counts in a couple of the more known brand names.

Like Ox said, lettuce will leave you feeling more hungry.

krazyassmexican
09-07-07, 8:33 am
Hey Krazy, mind if I ask why you are shying from the spinach? I get fresh organic baby spinach leaves and they leave me more full than twice as much lettuce could. Not to mention I like the fiber, you need it on this diet.

I have looked at a couple bags of lettuce out there, there are high carb counts in a couple of the more known brand names.

Like Ox said, lettuce will leave you feeling more hungry.

i dont like the spinach flavor plus it's hard to mantain fresh
i am gettin romaine lettuce which doesnt have that many carbs

i am waiting for ox to see what he says about my servings or to see what other veggies he could recomend me

Ox
09-07-07, 9:29 am
i've been eating 1 cup and a half of lettuce plus like 3 or 4 small broccoli spears what u think?

I just wrote in the post above this the serving sizes.

Ox
09-07-07, 9:31 am
Hey Krazy, mind if I ask why you are shying from the spinach? I get fresh organic baby spinach leaves and they leave me more full than twice as much lettuce could. Not to mention I like the fiber, you need it on this diet.

I have looked at a couple bags of lettuce out there, there are high carb counts in a couple of the more known brand names.

Like Ox said, lettuce will leave you feeling more hungry.

Shark is right. Spinach is definitely a better option because of the nutrient density, the fiber, and it won;t stretch your stomach. You could also have a cup of asparagus, alfalfa sprouts, or string beans.

krazyassmexican
09-07-07, 9:32 am
I just wrote in the post above this the serving sizes.

sorry hey just in case what veggies are the best for this type of diet besides spinach? i really wanna do things right man plus i am thinking of going for 20 weeks instead of 16 could that be alrite?

i dont know it that would be too much for my body

Shark
09-07-07, 12:11 pm
I'm sure you want your answer from Ox, and he might jump on and disagree with me.

But, I have seen people on diets similar to this year round man. People who stick to the caveman diet all their life. I suggest you use this diet to do what YOU feel you need to do to your body.

I think in the end it isn't if your BODY can handle it, but can your MIND handle it for that long? You might have to figure out some tricks along the way to rev it back up and keep motivated and interested. Maybe some cycling of supps or cycling of intensity of cardio? You never want to plateau so you need to kick things up once in a while if you plan on going that long.

krazyassmexican
09-07-07, 3:38 pm
I'm sure you want your answer from Ox, and he might jump on and disagree with me.

But, I have seen people on diets similar to this year round man. People who stick to the caveman diet all their life. I suggest you use this diet to do what YOU feel you need to do to your body.

I think in the end it isn't if your BODY can handle it, but can your MIND handle it for that long? You might have to figure out some tricks along the way to rev it back up and keep motivated and interested. Maybe some cycling of supps or cycling of intensity of cardio? You never want to plateau so you need to kick things up once in a while if you plan on going that long.

i completly agree with you my plan of going for more than 16 weeks is in case i dont reach what i want to reach in those 16 weeks u feel me?
i dont wanna end up my cut with a gut u know?

Giant Killer
09-08-07, 8:39 pm
Ox, I know the website isn't finished yet, but what will membership entail? Is it just a simple signup and you have access to your pre-contest blogs/progress pics and such? Is there a fee associated with said membership?

Ox
09-09-07, 12:31 pm
Ox, I know the website isn't finished yet, but what will membership entail? Is it just a simple signup and you have access to your pre-contest blogs/progress pics and such? Is there a fee associated with said membership?

The membership will allow you to view my pre-contest progress photos as well as training footage, posing practice, progress video, as well as interviews. I plan on it consisting of a lot of video footage. I have not come up with a fee yet. What do YOU think is reasonable?

Giant Killer
09-09-07, 12:33 pm
The membership will allow you to view my pre-contest progress photos as well as training footage, posing practice, progress video, as well as interviews. I plan on it consisting of a lot of video footage. I have not come up with a fee yet. What do YOU think is reasonable?

For FORVM members? Free, right? Haha.

No really, I think the fee would weigh heavily on if you capture that pro card...

krazyassmexican
09-10-07, 10:31 am
i was reading ur bio on your website it's very inspirational
i enjoyed the pics
thanks for sharing your life with us

ChandlerXJ
09-11-07, 8:18 am
Ox, a few questions. If I am eating a can of tuna for one of my meals, do I count the measly 3g of fat it has?

I am prepping for the diet, stocking up on all the stuff I need, getting extra fish oil caps to fill out fats during meals, getting jars and jars of natty pb, I am buying about a gallon of extra virgin coconut oil, gallon of EVOO, and a shit load of almonds.

People are getting excited, my bro can't wait and he's starting monday haha...

have a good week man

Ox
09-11-07, 10:20 am
Ox, a few questions. If I am eating a can of tuna for one of my meals, do I count the measly 3g of fat it has?

I am prepping for the diet, stocking up on all the stuff I need, getting extra fish oil caps to fill out fats during meals, getting jars and jars of natty pb, I am buying about a gallon of extra virgin coconut oil, gallon of EVOO, and a shit load of almonds.

People are getting excited, my bro can't wait and he's starting monday haha...

have a good week man

Don't worry about the fat in the tuna. I would opt for olive oil over coconut oil. Be sure that when you buy any type of oil that it comes in a glass bottle. Plastic is no good. Metal is okay also. And buy raw almonds. Once you open the bag, be sure to keep it sealed and refrigerated, heat and oxygen will turn the nuts rancid. Just some tips! Good luck bro.

ChandlerXJ
09-11-07, 10:55 am
How about the bulking phase for carbs... oats, brown rice, yams, barley...

anything else you'd suggest for good clean carbs?

ChandlerXJ
09-11-07, 11:01 am
I'm guessing the keto diet should be mostly unsaturated fats... right?

Redman
09-11-07, 1:00 pm
I see that in your diet you eat a lot of green salad. Would any green veggies work here also, such as green peas or green beans? I get tired of salad real quick and was just wondering if I could change up to one of those to keep me sane when cutting. Thanks bro.

kyderz
09-11-07, 4:35 pm
I was watching an MD vid, Ox.

It said PJ does NO carbs and NO fat.

How does this work?

He said he was cutting up, but weak as hell.

Is that only for the last few weeks, or does he do that the WHOLE cutting phase?

Ox
09-11-07, 8:27 pm
I was watching an MD vid, Ox.

It said PJ does NO carbs and NO fat.

How does this work?

He said he was cutting up, but weak as hell.

Is that only for the last few weeks, or does he do that the WHOLE cutting phase?

That's somehting that's doen on the last 2-4 weeks prior to a show to really speed things up and torture the fat off your body. You may be shredded everywhere but still have some fat in your glutes and that's how you get it off. It really sucks ass though. Talk about feeling like shit. You don't want to get out of bed in the morning. I remember pulling up to the gym and not wnating to get out of my car. I've fallen asleep in my car before procrastinating about going into the gym once my diet is like this. You really feel shit.

BigDaddy21
09-11-07, 10:36 pm
happy to see your site up, its awesome and different from the rest, great job man. i was on md earlier in the day and was watching you an PJ rep it out. after i saw u do your style of skull crushers, i had to throw it in my chest and tri work out, which turned out to be one of the best exercises ive ever done for tris. yo whens your next show bro? i can't believe you have fuckin striations in your tris already too that far out...lol unbelievable.

Toni69
09-12-07, 4:50 am
Ok Ox..am I missing something? Where is the link to your new site? is it up and running yet?

Hope your well...

krazyassmexican
09-12-07, 8:51 am
Ok Ox..am I missing something? Where is the link to your new site? is it up and running yet?

Hope your well...

evancentopani.com
i love reading his bio i did it twice is a good therapy in case you feel like shit

Toni69
09-12-07, 2:50 pm
Ok..Im still friggin stuck on the opening page..Ox, Im sorry...but you are GORGEOUS!!!!! Ok...taking a deep breadth before I go back. OK now Im actually gonna read through the site and be more professional next time. GODDAMN Ox!

Dam friggin hormones! Ok..will be back.

kyderz
09-12-07, 4:53 pm
LOL! Toni, you're a funny one.

Good shit!

Toni69
09-12-07, 5:11 pm
God...I dont even wanna go there..the guy has a girl so I have to be respectful...somewhat..LOL

Ox..your bio is incredible. I totally enjoyed that bio and the pics..so well done and down to earth...great job!

I didnt know your first show was the Bev Francis, that was my June show...I won my weightclass, you won the whole dam show...and your career sky-rocketed from there. Your truly an inspiration to all of us. I think I can speak on behalf of everyone here that we are all so proud of your accomplishments both on a professional and personal level.

We are honored to have you here to share your knowledge and experiences with us. Your an amazing athlete and a wonderful person and your living proof that we should not focus on where we are, but instead we should focus on where we want to be...

“Our limitations and success will be based, most often, on your own expectations for ourselves. What the mind dwells upon, the body acts upon.”

kyderz
09-12-07, 5:15 pm
Word to that.

Shit I was gonna ask a question on here and I forgot shit.

GAH!

kyderz
09-12-07, 5:16 pm
O yeah..

Wrestling shoes on back day.

I have thought about it.

Good idea for me?

Sir J-Werk
09-12-07, 5:46 pm
Ok..Im still friggin stuck on the opening page..Ox, Im sorry...but you are GORGEOUS!!!!! Ok...taking a deep breadth before I go back. OK now Im actually gonna read through the site and be more professional next time. GODDAMN Ox!

Dam friggin hormones! Ok..will be back.

Bad! Bad bad bad Brooklyn!

Ox
09-12-07, 8:31 pm
I'm guessing the keto diet should be mostly unsaturated fats... right?

Mainly yes. More particularly monunsaturated fats. Get your polys from fish oil. Use whole eggs and red meat for saturated fat. Coconut oil is a waste.

Ox
09-12-07, 8:35 pm
Thanks you guys for the feedback on the site. I really set out to make a site that was different from what the other guys were doing. I want a site that has a lot of content and information. Just wait until I get all the video footage up. It should be really cool. I've got training stuff, interviews, posing practice and contest prep progress stuff. I'm gonna try and find old footage from when I was getting ready for the Atlantic states. Just stay tuned. Its not done and the best stuff is coming.

MDur8
09-13-07, 12:54 am
Thanks you guys for the feedback on the site. I really set out to make a site that was different from what the other guys were doing. I want a site that has a lot of content and information. Just wait until I get all the video footage up. It should be really cool. I've got training stuff, interviews, posing practice and contest prep progress stuff. I'm gonna try and find old footage from when I was getting ready for the Atlantic states. Just stay tuned. Its not done and the best stuff is coming.

Glad to hear bro the site looks great. The bio section is my fav...very inspiring

antish
09-13-07, 8:03 am
hey ox, are you evan centopani btw?

Brutus_515
09-13-07, 8:04 am
Hey man that your new site is pretty bad ass man...great job again

krazyassmexican
09-13-07, 8:15 am
hey ox, are you evan centopani btw?

yes he is and he's an OX brother evan is the coolest man i ever met
he's my online dietician

Pizzalamp
09-13-07, 6:29 pm
OX
Great site

Rhetoric
09-13-07, 11:08 pm
That's somehting that's doen on the last 2-4 weeks prior to a show to really speed things up and torture the fat off your body. You may be shredded everywhere but still have some fat in your glutes and that's how you get it off. It really sucks ass though. Talk about feeling like shit. You don't want to get out of bed in the morning. I remember pulling up to the gym and not wnating to get out of my car. I've fallen asleep in my car before procrastinating about going into the gym once my diet is like this. You really feel shit.

Hey Evan, do you always implement a "no fat" stage at the end of your diet? Also, just wanted to say that your new site is great and that the diet you have been helping me with is working wonders. I'm losing weight at a steady pace (1 - 2 pounds a week), but for the first time in my life, muscle is not wasting away and my strength and energy levels are amazing. Hope to see you at the Olympia, if you're going. And again, thanks.

widdlewade44
09-13-07, 11:25 pm
Great site Evan. Really awesome brother.

Kevin
widdlewade44

Ox
09-13-07, 11:51 pm
Hey Evan, do you always implement a "no fat" stage at the end of your diet? Also, just wanted to say that your new site is great and that the diet you have been helping me with is working wonders. I'm losing weight at a steady pace (1 - 2 pounds a week), but for the first time in my life, muscle is not wasting away and my strength and energy levels are amazing. Hope to see you at the Olympia, if you're going. And again, thanks.

I usually have to resort to dropping the fats out at the end to git rid of any last bit of stubborn fat that's still there. I'm glad to hear you've had good luck with the diet. I too think that it's more effective at retaining muscle and my energy is always great. Unfortunately, I won't be at the Olympia. Thnaks for checkin out the site man I appreciate it.

kyderz
09-14-07, 2:32 am
Yea bro, site is sick.

Inspiring as hell.

So Ox, you and big Ron trained delts.

MD only has part 1 of 3 up [Shoulder press SS with side laterals].

Would ya mind sharing with me and the other brothers what other exercises you did in part 2 and 3?

I have delts tomorrow [Friday] and I would like to try something new.

I love supersets.

Thanks bro.

--Kyle

Toni69
09-14-07, 2:41 am
I usually have to resort to dropping the fats out at the end to git rid of any last bit of stubborn fat that's still there. I'm glad to hear you've had good luck with the diet. I too think that it's more effective at retaining muscle and my energy is always great. Unfortunately, I won't be at the Olympia. Thnaks for checkin out the site man I appreciate it.

well, this is on my agenda..if this gets fat off my rump than Im down! I need all the help I can get in that department! Im going about my diet for this next show totally different and Ox's way is looking like the way to go. It is gonna be a total shock to me cause Im a carb loader. Im taking it all in Ox...great stuff.

Shark
09-14-07, 3:46 am
It's almost been a month on Ox's diet now. I expected to see bigger muscle when I started cutting, but this is insane. I am "fairly" weak in the gym but the pump lasts for days. Everyone in the gym says I'm stupid for doing this type of diet, yet EVERYONE is commenting on how good I am comming along on this cut. So fuck em.


My problem is, today was leg day. My legs are huge and I rarely train them. I hit them once a week during cuts though because I want to whole body consuming energy. But today was HELL. Normally my leg workouts are boring because I can pound the shit out of them and walk away like nothing happened. But today I was shaking like crazy. I was constantly trying to regain my balance. I was weak and felt lightheaded a few times. I felt fine all day before the gym though. It took about an hour after I left to get my head straight again.

I ate 8 ounces of meat 1 1/2 hours before the gym. 30 minutes before I did my normal stack of CEE, acetyl-l-carnitine, BCAA's and a little tiny bit of shock therapy just to try to mask the flavor. I have used this stack many times before. But I just felt like I was going to die today. It was too much. Oh yeah, don't even ask, of course I finished the whole workout.


But would it have been a good idea to mow on a couple fish tabs or maybe some pb when I felt like that?

hjayss
09-14-07, 7:14 am
Got a quick one for you...Have you ever used kre-alklyn? I just started a new cylce of it and noticed I am geting a little chubby even though my weight has not gone up..my face is even looking fuller is it I am not drinking enough water...or what...I drink 1 1/2 gallon I am 5'11 213lbs...

IluvIron
09-16-07, 9:02 pm
Wuzup Ox this is the first time i post under your thread but I have been following it since the beginning. I wanted to congratulate you on everything man, your getting up thereand your going to that Olympia stage for sure. What I wanted to ask is actually 2 questions. First when your cutting on the Palumbo diet is the cheat meal once a week or once every 2 weeks? And also if Flax is ok? because I think I read somewhere that it has estrogen like side effects just wanted to make sure since I am going to follow the diet.

Ox
09-17-07, 12:05 am
It's almost been a month on Ox's diet now. I expected to see bigger muscle when I started cutting, but this is insane. I am "fairly" weak in the gym but the pump lasts for days. Everyone in the gym says I'm stupid for doing this type of diet, yet EVERYONE is commenting on how good I am comming along on this cut. So fuck em.


My problem is, today was leg day. My legs are huge and I rarely train them. I hit them once a week during cuts though because I want to whole body consuming energy. But today was HELL. Normally my leg workouts are boring because I can pound the shit out of them and walk away like nothing happened. But today I was shaking like crazy. I was constantly trying to regain my balance. I was weak and felt lightheaded a few times. I felt fine all day before the gym though. It took about an hour after I left to get my head straight again.

I ate 8 ounces of meat 1 1/2 hours before the gym. 30 minutes before I did my normal stack of CEE, acetyl-l-carnitine, BCAA's and a little tiny bit of shock therapy just to try to mask the flavor. I have used this stack many times before. But I just felt like I was going to die today. It was too much. Oh yeah, don't even ask, of course I finished the whole workout.


But would it have been a good idea to mow on a couple fish tabs or maybe some pb when I felt like that?


Dude. You guys have to listen to me. ZERO carbs. Shock therapy has carbs. MainLy maltodextrin. It's glycemic. And if you've been doing no carbs and then have some you will react to it and you will feel shitty especially if you go through your workout afterwards. A good meal an hour before training is eggs. Just eggs. You could throw in some animal nitro or bcaas right before but thats it. I guarantee the maltodextrin fucked you up.

Ox
09-17-07, 12:08 am
Wuzup Ox this is the first time i post under your thread but I have been following it since the beginning. I wanted to congratulate you on everything man, your getting up thereand your going to that Olympia stage for sure. What I wanted to ask is actually 2 questions. First when your cutting on the Palumbo diet is the cheat meal once a week or once every 2 weeks? And also if Flax is ok? because I think I read somewhere that it has estrogen like side effects just wanted to make sure since I am going to follow the diet.

Thanks bro. The cheat meal is every week but you do not begin the cheat meals until after you have been on zero carbs for 2 weeks.

Flax oil is inferior to fish oil. Use extra virgin olive oil and or macadamia nut oil instead and supplement with fish oil.

Nightshift
09-17-07, 12:43 am
I checked out your site and it looks great, good job!!

I have a quick question about your zero carb diet. Besides cutting, what if someone's goal was to lose wight. Would you use the values for Protein to Fat using ones current weight, their goal weight, or a mid point?

Thanks

Brutus_515
09-17-07, 9:11 am
Hey Ox,

Just watched your arm training vids with PJ Braun...(both you guys are fucking tanks!!)...I tried your version of the straight bar skull crushers...bringing it down to the crown of the head rather than the eyebrow or nose....I had a few questions for the movement

Towards the middle of the my second set my elbow would creep outward but I would still only feel it in my triceps and not the shoulder or lats...Is it normal for that to happen or do I need to concentrate on having my elbows more "in than out"

And at the top of the movement I noticed that you cant lock out your triceps due to the angle or weight of the bar wich is good

How often do you do this variation....Is it a staple in the basics or do you change it or rotate it out of your arm workouts?


Thanks man!!!

Oh yeah EZ bars do make it easier haha....the straight bar requires alittle more attention to make sure it is done right haha

kyderz
09-17-07, 3:14 pm
Yea lol, ZERO = ZERO.

You can't go ZERO carbs, but have "just a few carbs today".

THAT is what will make you fail.

Either all out or nothing.

All day, everyday.

krazyassmexican
09-17-07, 3:28 pm
yo ox
i am not bothering u with questions this time

i just came here to thank you
i got 10 more weeks to go on my diet

like i said before i started at 230lbs this diet
and as today i am 211lbs

i couldnt do it without your help man
let's where i get in 10 weeks

kyderz
09-17-07, 4:43 pm
Nice job, Mex.

IluvIron
09-17-07, 6:11 pm
Alright thanks OX that is what I thought.

Shark
09-17-07, 6:22 pm
Dude. You guys have to listen to me. ZERO carbs. Shock therapy has carbs. MainLy maltodextrin. It's glycemic. And if you've been doing no carbs and then have some you will react to it and you will feel shitty especially if you go through your workout afterwards. A good meal an hour before training is eggs. Just eggs. You could throw in some animal nitro or bcaas right before but thats it. I guarantee the maltodextrin fucked you up.

When I put the shock therapy in I didn't think it would effect me so much. I was only throwing a pinch in for a little bit of flavor. Barely 1/4 dose. I knew it had some sugar but didn't think it would do that to me.

Went on my stack without it today and I murdered my back. Felt 100 times better. Thanks Ox. My bad.

hjayss
09-18-07, 7:09 am
Got a quick one for you...Have you ever used kre-alklyn? I just started a new cylce of it and noticed I am geting a little chubby even though my weight has not gone up..my face is even looking fuller is it I am not drinking enough water...or what...I drink 1 1/2 gallon I am 5'11 213lbs...
I think I figured it out needed to add water..it is working better know...I just never had this problem b4 it always worked do wel for me...

Ox
09-18-07, 9:32 am
I checked out your site and it looks great, good job!!

I have a quick question about your zero carb diet. Besides cutting, what if someone's goal was to lose wight. Would you use the values for Protein to Fat using ones current weight, their goal weight, or a mid point?

Thanks

You should base your calculations on how much lean mass you have. If you are 250 but have 13 % bodyfat then you would base your calculations on 218 lbs.

Ox
09-18-07, 9:34 am
Hey Ox,

Just watched your arm training vids with PJ Braun...(both you guys are fucking tanks!!)...I tried your version of the straight bar skull crushers...bringing it down to the crown of the head rather than the eyebrow or nose....I had a few questions for the movement

Towards the middle of the my second set my elbow would creep outward but I would still only feel it in my triceps and not the shoulder or lats...Is it normal for that to happen or do I need to concentrate on having my elbows more "in than out"

And at the top of the movement I noticed that you cant lock out your triceps due to the angle or weight of the bar wich is good

How often do you do this variation....Is it a staple in the basics or do you change it or rotate it out of your arm workouts?


Thanks man!!!

Oh yeah EZ bars do make it easier haha....the straight bar requires alittle more attention to make sure it is done right haha


As long as you're feeling it i your tris you're doing ok. I use this movement pretty much every tri workout. I consider it a must for tricep development.

Ox
09-18-07, 9:35 am
yo ox
i am not bothering u with questions this time

i just came here to thank you
i got 10 more weeks to go on my diet

like i said before i started at 230lbs this diet
and as today i am 211lbs

i couldnt do it without your help man
let's where i get in 10 weeks

That's awesoem bro. Keep up the work. If yout weight comes to a standstill you may want to consider either more cardio or adjusting your food intake.

Nightshift
09-18-07, 9:43 am
You should base your calculations on how much lean mass you have. If you are 250 but have 13 % bodyfat then you would base your calculations on 218 lbs.


Thanks!

krazyassmexican
09-18-07, 10:00 am
That's awesoem bro. Keep up the work. If yout weight comes to a standstill you may want to consider either more cardio or adjusting your food intake.

yeah man i am doing my best to up my cardio to 60minutes after weight training boss

i am adding animal pump to my weight training too let's see what happends

BigDaddy21
09-19-07, 5:06 pm
whats your take on wheat pasta ox. i'm always hearing oats and more oats. i eat them too but what else do you personally take in during a bulk bro? i thought a bulk would be easy since all u have to do is eat, but im finding i have to buy more and more food days at a time loll. whos better to ask what to eat then an italian guy haha.

Ox
09-19-07, 8:58 pm
whats your take on wheat pasta ox. i'm always hearing oats and more oats. i eat them too but what else do you personally take in during a bulk bro? i thought a bulk would be easy since all u have to do is eat, but im finding i have to buy more and more food days at a time loll. whos better to ask what to eat then an italian guy haha.

If you're tryin to gain size pasta is fine. It doesn't even have to be wheat pasta. Doesn't really matter. Barilla started making a new one called Barilla Total and it's made out of lentils, wheat, and a bunch of other shit and it's got a great taste. But honestly bro, when you're just trying to grow, don't be shy with the pasta, white potatoes etc etc. Eat up!

ChandlerXJ
09-20-07, 3:40 pm
ox, when I'm making my meals on the KETO diet, just a few short months away, am I going to count the calories from the carbs in the greens I can eat, and the nuts, or just the fat calories and forget about the calories from the carbs...

Also, I am going to the 1:1:1 until Jan, so I can be used to the fats and incorporating them into my meals... I will be doing 4 solid meals a day, 2 shakes, 1/2 shake pre , the other 1/2 post work out, the last one before bed - because bed time at school can vary, so I'll just chug it before sleep.

Should I be figuring calories per pound of LEAN mass or what the scale says. I have a body fat / mass scale so it gives me a good idea of how much fat I have, but it tells you your organ internal fat and the fat that you absolutely can't lose even if you tried. I'll most likely be at 215-220 when the cut begins, but i don't know if I should be calculating for 220 or if I should go a little less because of the fat I already have.

This is gonna be nuts man, seriously, thank you so much for all the help.

When I have my MBA in 2 years let's start an insurance firm.

Ox
09-20-07, 5:58 pm
ox, when I'm making my meals on the KETO diet, just a few short months away, am I going to count the calories from the carbs in the greens I can eat, and the nuts, or just the fat calories and forget about the calories from the carbs...

Also, I am going to the 1:1:1 until Jan, so I can be used to the fats and incorporating them into my meals... I will be doing 4 solid meals a day, 2 shakes, 1/2 shake pre , the other 1/2 post work out, the last one before bed - because bed time at school can vary, so I'll just chug it before sleep.

Should I be figuring calories per pound of LEAN mass or what the scale says. I have a body fat / mass scale so it gives me a good idea of how much fat I have, but it tells you your organ internal fat and the fat that you absolutely can't lose even if you tried. I'll most likely be at 215-220 when the cut begins, but i don't know if I should be calculating for 220 or if I should go a little less because of the fat I already have.

This is gonna be nuts man, seriously, thank you so much for all the help.

When I have my MBA in 2 years let's start an insurance firm.


Dude, I mean no disrespect at all but these same questions you are asking me have already been answered (probably more than a few times) in the thread. If you read back you'll find the answers you are looking for. One last time here it is:

1. You get your bodyfat checked.
2. Take the % and detrmine how much lean mass you have. (lbs)
3. Take your weight x 1.5 = the number of grams of protein you need per day
4. take the number of grams and multiply x 4 = the # of calories from protein
5. divide that # by 9 = the number of grams of fat you will need per day
6. thats all you need to know is grams
7. because it is a zero carb diet we are not counting the carbs in nuts and green LEAFY vegetables.

ChandlerXJ
09-23-07, 12:24 pm
Ox, sorry for the inconvenience/annoyance - I do appreciate the fact you still answered the question.

When I get time I will go through your thread and put the info in a specific new one so people can just refer there. It's just hard on some slow computers to go through 40 pages of posts, but I'll do my part and help out, no problem

Thanks evan

Syringemouth
09-26-07, 3:28 pm
Evan:

Currently I am bulking.

First I respond best to a four day split. I have tried 5 day before but I am ALWAYS tired as hell and can't hit the numbers I do for a four day split. I guess through trial and error I have found that four is my magic number.

Would it be beneficial to do deadlifts and stiff legged dead lifts in this split if I don't do the stiff legged deadlifts on leg day? I train quads before hamstrings and when I have (in the past) gotten to the SLD my legs are shaking so bad that I don't get the intensity I normally would if done separate.

My question is how would you set up a routine that can incoporate, a day for quads, deadlifts and SLD in four days without traing hamstrings on quad day and allowing at least two days off between quads and deadlifts?

Reacher34
09-26-07, 4:30 pm
Ox,
Saw the vid of you and PJ hitting arms, and one thing I noticed....you got some pretty well-developed calves. Do you subscribe to the lower weight/high rep theory or the high weight/low rep theory? I know different things work for different people, just curious as to how you get them to respond.

Ox
09-30-07, 7:12 pm
Evan:

Currently I am bulking.

First I respond best to a four day split. I have tried 5 day before but I am ALWAYS tired as hell and can't hit the numbers I do for a four day split. I guess through trial and error I have found that four is my magic number.

Would it be beneficial to do deadlifts and stiff legged dead lifts in this split if I don't do the stiff legged deadlifts on leg day? I train quads before hamstrings and when I have (in the past) gotten to the SLD my legs are shaking so bad that I don't get the intensity I normally would if done separate.

My question is how would you set up a routine that can incoporate, a day for quads, deadlifts and SLD in four days without traing hamstrings on quad day and allowing at least two days off between quads and deadlifts?

I wouldn't deadlift twice per week. I would alternate between stiff legged and regular deads each week. You're still gonna hot both your back and your hams regardless of how what type you do. If you're gonna train 4 days and split up legs then you're going to have to combine some bodyparts. Maybe like this
Day 1: Back, hamstrings, calves
Day 2: Chest, delts
Day 3: Arms & abs
Day 4: Quads

Ox
09-30-07, 7:14 pm
Ox,
Saw the vid of you and PJ hitting arms, and one thing I noticed....you got some pretty well-developed calves. Do you subscribe to the lower weight/high rep theory or the high weight/low rep theory? I know different things work for different people, just curious as to how you get them to respond.

I believe in both. But I will say that THE MOST IMPORTANT part of training claves is getting a peak contraction. I see guys lower the weight and just bring it up parallell and not get up on their toes. Waste of time. I think that the claves like both reps and weight but both have to be executed with a peak contraction.

krazyassmexican
09-30-07, 8:08 pm
hey ox how are u big man?

hey i wanna ask you for a real big favor i dunno if you can help me
i am weighting 204lbs now thanks to you and your ketogenic diet =)

could you please help me?

i got 8 weeks left and i
i am trying to reach 185 and then start bulkin

should i make changes to my diet?

rite now i am changin my cardio i was doing an hour
i lowered for 30minutes for a week then i'll go back to another week of 60 and switch it to 45

here are some progress pics i dunno if you wanna check it up

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?t=9745&page=57

dude i thank you so much =)

Ox
09-30-07, 8:30 pm
Krazy-

No problem. Post your EXACT diet right now and I'll adjust it.

krazyassmexican
09-30-07, 8:40 pm
Krazy-

No problem. Post your EXACT diet right now and I'll adjust it.

6:00am animal cuts
7:00am 3 whole eggs 3 egg whites (hard boiled) plus pak
10:00am shake (egg pro ultra, specialized protein for dieters, pb and fish oil)
1:00pm 8oz chicken breast 2cups of spinach tbsp olive oil and two liver tabs
4:00pm same as the 10am shake without fish oil and addin half serving of bcaa 2000

before weights animal pump
before cardio: animal cuts
7:00pm same as 1:00pm meal
10:00pm shake with full serving of bcaa 2000

Shark
10-01-07, 1:04 am
6:00am animal cuts
7:00am 3 whole eggs 3 egg whites (hard boiled) plus pak
10:00am shake (egg pro ultra, specialized protein for dieters, pb and fish oil)
1:00pm 8oz chicken breast 2cups of spinach tbsp olive oil and two liver tabs
4:00pm same as the 10am shake without fish oil and addin half serving of bcaa 2000

before weights animal pump
before cardio: animal cuts
7:00pm same as 1:00pm meal
10:00pm shake with full serving of bcaa 2000

Ox might correct me, this being his thread and all but the gap between 4 and 7 looks a little unfinished. What time exactly is your workout? If you workout RIGHT after you eat thats good, but unless your working out for three hours, which I don't reccomend, then why wait so long after your workout to eat again? Right after my workout I HAVE to slam a shake or I feel like crap.

Also, just a small suggestion bro, me personally I throw in some BCAA's before weights AND before cardio with my cuts. It's my little insurance policy to prevent catabolism. I always take the BCAA right before cardio. Not only does it give me a little fuel, but like I said, prevents catabolism.

Sorry for hijacking Ox. lol

kyderz
10-01-07, 3:46 am
Ox might correct me, this being his thread and all but the gap between 4 and 7 looks a little unfinished. What time exactly is your workout? If you workout RIGHT after you eat thats good, but unless your working out for three hours, which I don't reccomend, then why wait so long after your workout to eat again? Right after my workout I HAVE to slam a shake or I feel like crap.

Also, just a small suggestion bro, me personally I throw in some BCAA's before weights AND before cardio with my cuts. It's my little insurance policy to prevent catabolism. I always take the BCAA right before cardio. Not only does it give me a little fuel, but like I said, prevents catabolism.

Sorry for hijacking Ox. lol

damn...hijacked like a motherfucker.

jk bro, good point on the 3 hrs.

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 6:20 am
Ox might correct me, this being his thread and all but the gap between 4 and 7 looks a little unfinished. What time exactly is your workout? If you workout RIGHT after you eat thats good, but unless your working out for three hours, which I don't reccomend, then why wait so long after your workout to eat again? Right after my workout I HAVE to slam a shake or I feel like crap.

Also, just a small suggestion bro, me personally I throw in some BCAA's before weights AND before cardio with my cuts. It's my little insurance policy to prevent catabolism. I always take the BCAA right before cardio. Not only does it give me a little fuel, but like I said, prevents catabolism.

Sorry for hijacking Ox. lol

dude trust me
i know about pre/post workout nutrition
i leave the gym at 6:50 i live 2 block away from the gym i got everything undercontrol i am not starving myself

p.s. as you can see my pre workout meal contains bcaa's and my postworkout meal contains eaas

Spikes079
10-01-07, 8:34 am
Ox, I'm 18 and I have a fast metabolism. For just trying to gain weight so do I need to be on a strict diet to gain muslce or would my training be enough to enough help create muscle from the high calories?

Ox
10-01-07, 10:58 am
6:00am animal cuts
7:00am 3 whole eggs 3 egg whites (hard boiled) plus pak
10:00am shake (egg pro ultra, specialized protein for dieters, pb and fish oil)
1:00pm 8oz chicken breast 2cups of spinach tbsp olive oil and two liver tabs
4:00pm same as the 10am shake without fish oil and addin half serving of bcaa 2000

before weights animal pump
before cardio: animal cuts
7:00pm same as 1:00pm meal
10:00pm shake with full serving of bcaa 2000

In your shakes, just do 1/2 tbsp olive oil.
Drop your chicken breast servings to 5 oz (that's raw weight)
In the morning just have 10 egg whites, no yolks.

Ox
10-01-07, 11:00 am
Ox, I'm 18 and I have a fast metabolism. For just trying to gain weight so do I need to be on a strict diet to gain muslce or would my training be enough to enough help create muscle from the high calories?

If you're just tryin to get big then total calories is more important than being on a strict diet. But you should be eating 6 evenly spaced meals, each giving you the right amounts of proteins, carbs, and fats.

alkalineman
10-01-07, 11:35 am
I too was a fat kid growing up, around 220 lb pure fat. I also have a speech impedement and had wore glasses and had braces. I was basically a fat nerd. In High school I wanted to impress a girl I liked so I started a training program and dropped 70 lbs down to 150. In this I lost all my muscle but I was skinny, what I always wanted to be. I eventually asked for her e-mail (through a note, because of my stutter), and we have been going out for over 4 years now. After I lost all the weight I got more into strength training and having muscle (because I disliked the look of being skinny and didn't want to be skinny once I had achieved it) and decided I wanted to become a bodybuilder based on articles here in Animal Pak when I was around 16 and have been a follower ever since. I love weight training and pumping iron. But anyway, I have never been able to get cut andI have never tried zero carb, so I think Ox's diet may be the answer. Thank you so much

alkalineman
10-01-07, 11:35 am
Ox, how do you feel about Shock Therapy pre-workout for the zero carb diet? I think it has like 2g carb per serving, it has maltodextrin in the ingredients.

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 12:08 pm
In your shakes, just do 1/2 tbsp olive oil.
Drop your chicken breast servings to 5 oz (that's raw weight)
In the morning just have 10 egg whites, no yolks.

thanks a lot hommie
i am so glad to have you in my corner
so should i do this for next 8 weeks rite?

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 12:10 pm
Ox, how do you feel about Shock Therapy pre-workout for the zero carb diet? I think it has like 2g carb per serving, it has maltodextrin in the ingredients.

he said something about it a few pages before this one
and he said maltodextrin and those carbs would fuck u up

if you add carbs to your zero carb diet
it makes u feel like crap

kyderz
10-01-07, 1:40 pm
Yea guys. 0 and ZERO are the same thing.

Eat none, bar greens.

Shark
10-01-07, 2:24 pm
About the shock therapy. I was the one who used it pre work out. It messed me up so bad. Now I am just using my pre work out stack with CEE instead of shock

alkalineman
10-01-07, 2:33 pm
So I may have to just invest in Animal pump? Or should I just use Storm? Or can anyone else recommend any Pre workout Ketogenic diet friendly supp. thx

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 2:37 pm
So I may have to just invest in Animal pump? Or should I just use Storm? Or can anyone else recommend any Pre workout Ketogenic diet friendly supp. thx

fuck with animal pump dude

alkalineman
10-01-07, 2:44 pm
you mean get rid of it or try it?

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 2:54 pm
you mean get rid of it or try it?
why should u get rid of it if u aint on it LOL

fuck with something means start using it

alkalineman
10-01-07, 3:03 pm
Oh, I actually have a little bit left and I was experimenting with it and shock therapy/storm to see what the difference is. I'm not on zero carb now though, I'm still doing sweet potato, brown rice & veggies for carb sources. I may switch to ketogenic but I'm not sure.

krazyassmexican
10-01-07, 3:06 pm
Oh, I actually have a little bit left and I was experimenting with it and shock therapy/storm to see what the difference is. I'm not on zero carb now though, I'm still doing sweet potato, brown rice & veggies for carb sources. I may switch to ketogenic but I'm not sure.

well if you decide to do it try animal pump with it
we all got ur back

Ox
10-02-07, 11:20 am
Ox, how do you feel about Shock Therapy pre-workout for the zero carb diet? I think it has like 2g carb per serving, it has maltodextrin in the ingredients.

No dice. You have to do ZERO carbs. Someone else on here was complaining that they were feeling light headed during their workouts and felt like shit and they mentioned they were using this. I told him to cut it out. He did and sure enough he said he felt fine. Switch to storm if you want a zero carb creatine product.

Ox
10-02-07, 11:20 am
thanks a lot hommie
i am so glad to have you in my corner
so should i do this for next 8 weeks rite?

Do this until your weight loss comes to a halt and then hit me up again.

krazyassmexican
10-02-07, 11:22 am
i used storm when i wasnt cuttin and storm is just awesome!
p.s. funny how people want to cut on zero carb diet but always tryin to add carbs

krazyassmexican
10-02-07, 11:23 am
Do this until your weight loss comes to a halt and then hit me up again.

should i keep cheatin once a week?
hey how about let say at 12 weeks i do a cheat day?

i think that would shock my body!
it's just a question i am not doing that rite now

brandonA
10-02-07, 11:23 am
Yo Ox....

How's your diet and workouts going bro? Show prep right?

-B

mikejones1
10-02-07, 4:45 pm
ox i read one of your earlier posts and you said not to take nitro with water, and to use grape juice. but what if you are on the keto diet? is grape juice okay? i was thinking nitro is a staple in a diet, along with animal cuts.

besides universal egg protein and universal specialized protein, what supplements do you take on the keto diet? and which ones do you take pre and post workout?

alkalineman
10-02-07, 10:17 pm
I'll save Ox a little time as It was noted earlier in the post that there is absolutely ZERO carbs, meaning no grape juice. Drink water with it.

kyderz
10-02-07, 10:27 pm
Thanks, alk.

This is killing me, people!

ZERO CARBS IS HOW MANY?

ZEEERRRROOOOOOOO[echoes].

Mastrcruse
10-02-07, 10:52 pm
[QUOTE=Hikeon3;109185]Awesome Mr. Centopani. Truly awesome.

Out of curiosity, what does a high fat/protein day while you're cutting for a show look like? What foods do you consider a staple during this time?

Here's what my diet looks like pre-contest:

Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Meal 2: 1.5 scoops Universal Egg Protein, 1.5 Scoops Universal Specialized Protein for gaining lean Mass, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: same as meal 2

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oli

Meal 6: same as meals 2+4

Ox,
Thanks for all your responses in this thread, I know it has motivated me A LOT! I have a few questions if you dont mind.

I have fat around my midsection and upper body area that I want to cut. So I was thinking of cutting until winter and then bulking during the winter months. The cutting would use the diet you described because I believe that this diet is the first one I have read (through this thread) that would actually work with my body type. So my question is..

If I do the above meals, all 6, Should I still do protein shakes? At the moment I do 4 protein shakes. Here is the break down..

1 in the morning (43 g protein, 6g carbs total)
1 in the midmorning (42 g protein, 18 g carbs total)
*I repeat these 1 more time in the day (4 shakes in all)

I am 270-280lbs and need want to lower bodyfat before I try to bulk so I don't build on the fat I have already. I have noticed that my diet is really out of check.

Could you reccomend anything for my diet for cutting? Should I cut down on the shakes? Should I keep taking my creatine, N02, Animal Paks? Is there any other supplements that I should consider taking, such as Animal Cuts/Nitro? I know you said ZERO carbs, which would rule out my shakes so what powder would you recommend with no carbs?

Thanks again and you really have inspired me with this thread and overall with the forum.

alkalineman
10-03-07, 9:43 am
Again, I'll save Ox some time. On the protein shakes, as long as there is no explicit ingredient like sugar or maltodextrin in the the shakes, they are fine and won't spike your insulin. Animal Cuts is foundational for cutting cycles and the Nitro is to help preserve lean mass while cutting in your situation.

alkalineman
10-03-07, 9:46 am
Me, in my personal situation, I wouldn't start bulking until I am shredded. I've fucked myself up in the past trying to do short cutting and bulking cycles and I never got rid of my gut. Now I am full out going to get shredded before I even think about eating a calorie dense food or up my lifts. I am 232, 31%bf and all my fat is around my midsection, it SUCKS. I always pull my shirt down whenever I do benches so my gut doesn't stick out.

Mastrcruse
10-03-07, 9:46 am
^that sounds just like what I do. Thats why I am VERY motivated to cut.

Thanks for the help. I will make sure of the protein shakes and see if I need to adjust.

Thanks again

Ox
10-03-07, 10:07 am
[QUOTE=Ox;109307]

Ox,
Thanks for all your responses in this thread, I know it has motivated me A LOT! I have a few questions if you dont mind.

I have fat around my midsection and upper body area that I want to cut. So I was thinking of cutting until winter and then bulking during the winter months. The cutting would use the diet you described because I believe that this diet is the first one I have read (through this thread) that would actually work with my body type. So my question is..

If I do the above meals, all 6, Should I still do protein shakes? At the moment I do 4 protein shakes. Here is the break down..

1 in the morning (43 g protein, 6g carbs total)
1 in the midmorning (42 g protein, 18 g carbs total)
*I repeat these 1 more time in the day (4 shakes in all)

I am 270-280lbs and need want to lower bodyfat before I try to bulk so I don't build on the fat I have already. I have noticed that my diet is really out of check.

Could you reccomend anything for my diet for cutting? Should I cut down on the shakes? Should I keep taking my creatine, N02, Animal Paks? Is there any other supplements that I should consider taking, such as Animal Cuts/Nitro? I know you said ZERO carbs, which would rule out my shakes so what powder would you recommend with no carbs?

Thanks again and you really have inspired me with this thread and overall with the forum.

The diet you quoted has 3 shakes (using Universal Egg Protein and Speacialized Protein for Lean Mass) and 3 whole meals. You would be fine if you followed this diet. Animal Pak, Animal Cuts, and Animal Nitro or Universal BCAAs are the staples for the diet.

Vinny G
10-03-07, 10:38 am
Yo OX....I'm geting a bunch of PM's about my diet, asking if its like yours.

can i chime in here.....

Mastrcruse
10-03-07, 10:57 am
[QUOTE=Mastrcruse;189218]

The diet you quoted has 3 shakes (using Universal Egg Protein and Speacialized Protein for Lean Mass) and 3 whole meals. You would be fine if you followed this diet. Animal Pak, Animal Cuts, and Animal Nitro or Universal BCAAs are the staples for the diet.

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware that these products were shakes. Thanks again for all the help that you've given.

Ox
10-03-07, 11:11 pm
Yo OX....I'm geting a bunch of PM's about my diet, asking if its like yours.

can i chime in here.....

Absolutely bro...the more the better

Vinny G
10-04-07, 6:06 am
I have been on this diet for a few of my shows.

here is how i do it:

meal 1
Steak
handfull of cashews

meal 2
can of salmon
brussell sprouts

meal 3
grilled chicken breast
1 table spoon of natural peanut butter
asparagus

meal 4
5 whole eggs, 4 extra egg whites
broccolli and mushrooms omlette

meal 5
steak
asparagus
handfull of almonds

meal 6
grilled tilapia
large green salad with 1 table spoon of olive oil
vinegar


EVERY sunday I eat WHAT EVER I want from 7pm to 9m window.
pizza, pasta, breads, poptarts, icecream...WHAT EVER

IF you try this diet....YOU MUST EAT CARBS LIKE THIS ON SUNDAY...FOR IT TO WORK.

I have tried it without, and i lost too much size and fullness.

i have to give credit to DAVE PALUMBO for teaching me this diet.
i have tweaked it a bit to suit my taste buds.

alkalineman
10-04-07, 7:36 am
that sounds like a lot of different foods. Which of them do you have pre-made and which do you cook on the spot?

Vinny G
10-04-07, 9:58 am
that sounds like a lot of different foods. Which of them do you have pre-made and which do you cook on the spot?

i have a mexican resturant cook all my chicken for the week.
i take about 7ounces per glad bag, and store it in the fridge.

the rest i cook the night before

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 10:13 am
nice diet vinny rite now i am cuttin on zero carbs
it seems like mr dave palumbo knows his shit!

humanforklift
10-04-07, 11:52 am
Thanks for all of the responses guys..just wondering on that one cheat day, should I hit a number of carbs? Or just aim for a certain number with every meal? For the diet to work, how high should my carb intake go? And if you wouldn't mind, why does the carb intake have to be manipulated to such an extreme for this one cheat day?

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 12:08 pm
Thanks for all of the responses guys..just wondering on that one cheat day, should I hit a number of carbs? Or just aim for a certain number with every meal? For the diet to work, how high should my carb intake go? And if you wouldn't mind, why does the carb intake have to be manipulated to such an extreme for this one cheat day?

cheat meal is a cheat meal bro eat whatever you want
just make sure you eat it before bed

another thing
zero carb diet means zero carb diet

if u wanna add carbs to your cutting diet then
cycle carbs or do a lowcarb diet

but zero carb diet means zero carb!

Vinny G
10-04-07, 1:28 pm
Thanks for all of the responses guys..just wondering on that one cheat day, should I hit a number of carbs? Or just aim for a certain number with every meal? For the diet to work, how high should my carb intake go? And if you wouldn't mind, why does the carb intake have to be manipulated to such an extreme for this one cheat day?


i never count , just go eat-

here an example:

bowl of pasta with meatballs and bread with butter.

half pint of choc hagen daz

2 slices of pizza

2 pop tarts

and right before i go to bed.....a huge thing of black beans and white rice from the mexican place i get my chicken for the week from.

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 1:31 pm
i never count , just go eat-

here an example:

bowl of pasta with meatballs and bread with butter.

half pint of choc hagen daz

2 slices of pizza

2 pop tarts

and right before i go to bed.....a huge thing of black beans and white rice from the mexican place i get my chicken for the week from.

i miss beans and rice so much =(

Rhetoric
10-04-07, 1:47 pm
i never count , just go eat-

here an example:

bowl of pasta with meatballs and bread with butter.

half pint of choc hagen daz

2 slices of pizza

2 pop tarts

and right before i go to bed.....a huge thing of black beans and white rice from the mexican place i get my chicken for the week from.

Wow. I need to up my game on my next cheat meal. You're right though Vinny, the cheat meals really do help your physique improve from week to week. Gotta give it up to Ox for all of his guidance.

Vinny G
10-04-07, 2:51 pm
Wow. I need to up my game on my next cheat meal. You're right though Vinny, the cheat meals really do help your physique improve from week to week. Gotta give it up to Ox for all of his guidance.

what about my guidance...what am i chopped liver.....OR JUST THE OLD GUY NOW.....LOL

Toni69
10-04-07, 2:53 pm
I kinda like chopped liver....hahahaha!

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 2:54 pm
what about my guidance...what am i chopped liver.....OR JUST THE OLD GUY NOW.....LOL

ur the man too dude
you and ox make a great team
well holda holda
the whole team at animalpak is the real deal
we love you all

Rhetoric
10-04-07, 7:40 pm
what about my guidance...what am i chopped liver.....OR JUST THE OLD GUY NOW.....LOL

Awe, c'mon Vinny! You know I'm down with the greats! I was just referencing the endless stream of questions I've directed at Evan over the past few months. I'd be more than happy to bombard you too though. Actually... (Ox or Vinny) what does the carb-up process look like for the last week when on this diet? I'm only about 8 weeks away at this point and I was wondering what my game plan should be. (FYI - current calories = 2400)Thanks!

ChandlerXJ
10-04-07, 8:30 pm
ox just wanted to let you know that i switched my bulk diet to 1:1:1, and I shed a few percentage points of fat and I am gaining slowly. I feel the energy better with fats and carbs, rather than sluggish and watery with 2:1 carbs:protein.

I wanna thank you for all the help bro.

Cutting begins in a few short months.

You've been more than any of us could have asked for.

Vinny G
10-04-07, 8:40 pm
I hope you all know i have a good sense of humor...sarcastic but allways tryingto bust balls.

alkalineman
10-04-07, 8:50 pm
I have a serious question. I'm having some pains where my wisdom teeth are starting to come in full force. If I was on this zero carb diet, what would I do about keeping up the diet? Seems like the only thing you can eat for a few days are mushy foods and those are carbs. Any advice? I'm sure I could drink protein shakes all day but that wouldn't be very nutritious.

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 9:12 pm
this is not rant or anything like that i just would like to invite you guys to change our subject
we bombard evan with the same question over and over again

we all know ketogenic diet has virtually no carbs in it if we decide to give it a shot is because we are aware we are gonna feel like shit the first days, we are gonna lose some strenght but most important we are gonna see some bad ass changes on our bodies

the how much carbs should i eat question was answered 1000s of times on this thread just take a look around

evan is a great bodybuilder
from what i've been reading he was the first amateur bodybuilder to ever appear on the cover of muscular development

i am pretty sure the man
knows about training, supplementation, bulkin and plenty of more stuff
let's take advantage of this type of online personal training with this wonderful bodybuiilders!

YOUNG_BB
10-04-07, 9:58 pm
this is not rant or anything like that i just would like to invite you guys to change our subject
we bombard evan with the same question over and over again

we all know ketogenic diet has virtually no carbs in it if we decide to give it a shot is because we are aware we are gonna feel like shit the first days, we are gonna lose some strenght but most important we are gonna see some bad ass changes on our bodies

the how much carbs should i eat question was answered 1000s of times on this thread just take a look around

evan is a great bodybuilder
from what i've been reading he was the first amateur bodybuilder to ever appear on the cover of muscular development

i am pretty sure the man
knows about training, supplementation, bulkin and plenty of more stuff
let's take advantage of this type of online personal training with this wonderful bodybuiilders!

I AGREE WITH U

thats why i love animal
to be online and being able to talk and to ask questions to top class bodybuilders is friggin awesome
and not only that
actually getting real concrete answers
fucking amazing
ANIMAL PAK ALL THE WAY BROTHERS

krazyassmexican
10-04-07, 10:02 pm
I AGREE WITH U

thats why i love animal
to be online and being able to talk and to ask questions to top class bodybuilders is friggin awesome
and not only that
actually getting real concrete answers
fucking amazing
ANIMAL PAK ALL THE WAY BROTHERS

real concrete answers that's the sweetest deal a supp company could give you bro

that's the reason i stay universal nutrition to the fullest
and i am actually making my friends switching their supps to universal nutrition line

Rhetoric
10-04-07, 11:56 pm
I hope you all know i have a good sense of humor...sarcastic but allways tryingto bust balls.

Good. That's the way it should be. Too many people lack a balanced demeanor...

ChandlerXJ
10-05-07, 10:31 am
I have a serious question. I'm having some pains where my wisdom teeth are starting to come in full force. If I was on this zero carb diet, what would I do about keeping up the diet? Seems like the only thing you can eat for a few days are mushy foods and those are carbs. Any advice? I'm sure I could drink protein shakes all day but that wouldn't be very nutritious.

ox let me answer this because i had my teeth taken out and eating was no problem. i made everything into very fine chunks in the food processor. just grind it up and put a little bit in your mouth and a little water and let is slide down.

you might be lucky, i know about 5 people who had their teeth taken out and they were just as functional immediately afterwards.

alkalineman
10-05-07, 12:07 pm
thanks so much, I was thinking about that. Hopefully I am lucky like you said. Hopefully I won't need the pain meds because I won't be able to work out and I don't know how it will react with the supps I'm taking.

bobbymart
10-05-07, 3:36 pm
Hey ox thanks for all of you'r help I have been on you'r diet for a while now ad am seeing great results I do have a question for you canyou drink diet soda on it no carbs no sugar just might be nice for a change every now and then. thanks in advance

naturalguy
10-05-07, 5:32 pm
Great chest training article in the november issue of MD Ox!

Ox
10-06-07, 11:19 am
ox just wanted to let you know that i switched my bulk diet to 1:1:1, and I shed a few percentage points of fat and I am gaining slowly. I feel the energy better with fats and carbs, rather than sluggish and watery with 2:1 carbs:protein.

I wanna thank you for all the help bro.

Cutting begins in a few short months.

You've been more than any of us could have asked for.

No problem at all bro. Glad to hear that it's workin out well for you.

Ox
10-06-07, 11:21 am
I have a serious question. I'm having some pains where my wisdom teeth are starting to come in full force. If I was on this zero carb diet, what would I do about keeping up the diet? Seems like the only thing you can eat for a few days are mushy foods and those are carbs. Any advice? I'm sure I could drink protein shakes all day but that wouldn't be very nutritious.

Protein shakes, eggs, fish. Those are all mushy. Use oils for fats.

Ox
10-06-07, 11:24 am
Hey ox thanks for all of you'r help I have been on you'r diet for a while now ad am seeing great results I do have a question for you canyou drink diet soda on it no carbs no sugar just might be nice for a change every now and then. thanks in advance

You can. However, I go very easy on the artificial sweeteners. If I have a craving, I'll have a SIP of diet soda. Rarely do I have a whole one in a day let alone one sitting. But that could just be me being overly cautious. I just feel like every time I see an obese person they're drinking diet soda. Coincidence? I don;t know. But I do believe that artificial sweeteners in excess will have an adverse effect on the metabolism.

Ox
10-06-07, 11:26 am
Great chest training article in the november issue of MD Ox!

Thanks man. My chest isn't my best bodypart but I've really tried to bring it up this year. (those photos are from last November after the Nationals) Hopefully this year I'll see an improvment. Thanks again bro.

BigAnt
10-06-07, 12:19 pm
Ox;

Just checking in...stay strong!

We got 6 weeks until Nationals!

bobbymart
10-06-07, 2:35 pm
You can. However, I go very easy on the artificial sweeteners. If I have a craving, I'll have a SIP of diet soda. Rarely do I have a whole one in a day let alone one sitting. But that could just be me being overly cautious. I just feel like every time I see an obese person they're drinking diet soda. Coincidence? I don;t know. But I do believe that artificial sweeteners in excess will have an adverse effect on the metabolism.

Ha! never thought of it like that.....but you are right every overweight person I see seems to be drinking a diet soda!!!! thanks again for all of the help

Ox
10-06-07, 6:10 pm
Ox;

Just checking in...stay strong!

We got 6 weeks until Nationals!

How u feelin bro?

Freakshow
10-06-07, 6:16 pm
Ox;

Just checking in...stay strong!

We got 6 weeks until Nationals!

Cant wait for this show. Good luck!

BigAnt
10-06-07, 7:22 pm
How u feelin bro?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

How long does it take you to get out of bed in the morning to do cardio? LOL-We all must be on auto-pilot!

We are doing what others don't---THAT IS HOW WINNERS DO IT!

Stay stong and healthy!

Ant

G Diesel
10-06-07, 9:29 pm
You can. However, I go very easy on the artificial sweeteners. If I have a craving, I'll have a SIP of diet soda. Rarely do I have a whole one in a day let alone one sitting. But that could just be me being overly cautious. I just feel like every time I see an obese person they're drinking diet soda. Coincidence? I don;t know. But I do believe that artificial sweeteners in excess will have an adverse effect on the metabolism.

*G Diesel looks around with guilt as he swigs his 2 liter Diet Pepsi...

Damn man quit pissing on my parade ya big freak. Peace, G

PS... Caught a glimpse of Ox 6 weeks out. Fuckin frightening. NPC Superheavyweights beware, we have another IFBB pro in our midst.

krazyassmexican
10-06-07, 9:31 pm
are u gonna be competing with ant and al bro?

Pizzalamp
10-06-07, 10:26 pm
ox
i saw u in the new muscular development-damn good chest article-u were looking great
and oh yeah-i tried modern for pizza-u were right-real real good!

Toni69
10-07-07, 5:54 am
*G Diesel looks around with guilt as he swigs his 2 liter Diet Pepsi...

Damn man quit pissing on my parade ya big freak. Peace, G

PS... Caught a glimpse of Ox 6 weeks out. Fuckin frightening. NPC Superheavyweights beware, we have another IFBB pro in our midst.

Haha!

Your right G..I got my money on Ox! The next IFBB Pro for dam sure!

alkalineman
10-08-07, 2:57 pm
Any word on if creatine is worth taking on this diet? Should I be taking it pre workout or wait til im on a bulk and eating carbs. I remember someone saying that not eating carbs will negate the effects of the creatine? Any truth to this? My creatine source pre workout would be storm.

How does this sound for a cheat meal during the zero carb diet.

3000 calories, 136g fat, 268g carbs, 154g protein.

Is this too much?

alkalineman
10-10-07, 5:19 pm
Is Mrs Dash ok to eat on this diet?

Rhetoric
10-10-07, 6:40 pm
Is Mrs Dash ok to eat on this diet?

As long as it doesn't have carbs, it's fine. There are no sodium restrictions on this diet though.

krazyassmexican
10-10-07, 7:53 pm
As long as it doesn't have carbs, it's fine. There are no sodium restrictions on this diet though.

animal pump would fit the brother perfect i recomend it a lot

alkalineman
10-10-07, 7:53 pm
yeah it doesn't have carbs, sugar, or anything like that. The only thing I wondered about was in the ingredients it has different vegetables. Probably doesn't count though.

bobbymart
10-10-07, 8:31 pm
hey ox im back with another qestion im in week 3 of my diet and my question is can I take a fiber supplement I look back in the 30 some pages of the thread and did not see this question my apologies if i missed it but i know that i used to get my fiber from whole grain foods but those all have carbs so i was considering a fiber supplement. thanks in advance

alkalineman
10-11-07, 9:28 am
I was pretty much a paraplegic for 4 DAYS after doing intense deadlifts the first day of my zero carb diet. I'm definently getting a feeling that my body isn't recovering as fast as it used to.

krazyassmexican
10-11-07, 9:33 am
I was pretty much a paraplegic for 4 DAYS after doing intense deadlifts the first day of my zero carb diet. I'm definently getting a feeling that my body isn't recovering as fast as it used to.

it is normal dude
ur body doesnt have any glycogen
it has to get use to run on ketones

just give it a few more days

alkalineman
10-11-07, 12:22 pm
I just bought Egg Pro Ultra because I read up on it and decided to try it and it has 6g carb/6g sugar? I'm assuming I got the wrong one? this bad? Should I not use it?

krazyassmexican
10-11-07, 12:24 pm
I just bought Egg Pro Ultra because I read up on it and decided to try it and it has 6g carb/6g sugar? I'm assuming I got the wrong one? this bad? Should I not use it?

u got the ultra free version
the ultra has like 2.5 grams of carbs

used it and then switch to the ultra one

alkalineman
10-11-07, 12:33 pm
Should I purchase another kind that doesn't have the 6g carbs/6 sugar and just save this stuff for bulk? I've heard bad things about aspartame and my brother recently had surgery for brain cancer. He said he drank a lot of aspartame and now i'm on edge about it.

krazyassmexican
10-11-07, 3:28 pm
Should I purchase another kind that doesn't have the 6g carbs/6 sugar and just save this stuff for bulk? I've heard bad things about aspartame and my brother recently had surgery for brain cancer. He said he drank a lot of aspartame and now i'm on edge about it.

specialized protein for dieters
cant go wrong with it

by the way
you gotta understand

there is
egg pro ultra (aspartame)
egg pro ultra free(aspartame free) -this is the one u got

Maccabee
10-11-07, 8:26 pm
I dont have a question. Just wanted to say I saw your videos on mdtv when you hit shoulders and triceps. I learned a load of stuff from those vids. I also tried skull crushers but the way you do them and my elbows dont hurt anymore. Thanks bro. Peace

naturalguy
10-13-07, 9:28 pm
It was an honor to meet you today Evan. Best of luck at Nationals!

krazyassmexican
10-14-07, 1:31 pm
brother
just wanted to say that the pics of the training were great
your body looks amazing!!
you got some bad ass abs and legs bro
congrats!

ChandlerXJ
10-14-07, 2:05 pm
evan, it was awesome to meet you. thanks for all the advice man, I appreciate it. good luck in dallas man, can't wait!

Maccabee
10-14-07, 5:54 pm
Hey Ox, how are you? I checked my body fat percentage and it was 26%...I basically decided to stop bulking and start shredding for the first time ever. Basically I went over this whole thread and gathered a bunch of info on how to properly do this keto diet. Can you please check what I have to see if I am on track or not. I dont know if this helps but I am currently 20 years old weighing in at 210 lbs. I will be dieting for 16 weeks straight.

This is the diet I am going to follow which is exactly like yours but I will probably take less protein and fat since I am smaller then you.
Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Meal 2: 1.5 scoops Universal Egg Protein, 1.5 Scoops Universal Specialized Protein for gaining lean Mass, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: same as meal 2

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oli

Meal 6: same as meals 2+4

Except every sunday I will have one cheat meal consisting off eggs, oatmeal, banana, and sushi.

I will start off with 30 minutes of cardio daily adding 10 minutes every week. I will probably end up doing close to 45 minutes of cardio twice a day once before breakfast and once after my workout.

These are my supplements:
BCAAs
Animal Nitro
Animal Cuts
GH MAx
Uniliver
Animal Pak
Animal Pump
Fish oil
Flax seed oil

Does this look ok??

mikejones1
10-14-07, 6:41 pm
Except every sunday I will have one cheat meal consisting off eggs, oatmeal, banana, and sushi.

Does this look ok??[/QUOTE]

good luck with your diet. it will be interesting to see how you do seeing as my stats are similar. well my height, weight and bf % are. im 22yrs old. im gonna start this diet in 2 months.

im pretty sure i read here that ox said "no cheat meals till zero carbs for 2 weeks". if im wrong someone tell me to get lost. wanted to let you know incase you didnt catch it in time, if you didnt know already.

Maccabee
10-14-07, 6:48 pm
Oh I have no idea, thats why I am asking Evan lol. Once I get his answer. I will wait for my supps to get here and I will start it. Until then I am going to eat very clean.

krazyassmexican
10-14-07, 6:50 pm
Except every sunday I will have one cheat meal consisting off eggs, oatmeal, banana, and sushi.

Does this look ok??

good luck with your diet. it will be interesting to see how you do seeing as my stats are similar. well my height, weight and bf % are. im 22yrs old. im gonna start this diet in 2 months.

im pretty sure i read here that ox said "no cheat meals till zero carbs for 2 weeks". if im wrong someone tell me to get lost. wanted to let you know incase you didnt catch it in time, if you didnt know already.[/QUOTE]


Oh I have no idea, thats why I am asking Evan lol. Once I get his answer. I will wait for my supps to get here and I will start it. Until then I am going to eat very clean.

yes your first cheat meal should be after the first two weeks

naturalguy
10-14-07, 7:33 pm
Evan it was an honor to train in the same gym with you. Best of luck at Nationals.

mgmmaze
10-15-07, 9:33 pm
Hey OX i seen your in the trenches series you look sick with all that size on you man. i hope you make some more of those they are tight to watch.

Ox
10-15-07, 11:07 pm
brother
just wanted to say that the pics of the training were great
your body looks amazing!!
you got some bad ass abs and legs bro
congrats!

Thanks bro. I appreciate it.

Ox
10-15-07, 11:08 pm
evan, it was awesome to meet you. thanks for all the advice man, I appreciate it. good luck in dallas man, can't wait!

Chandler-

It was awesome to meet you too buddy. I'd had a really good time Saturday. I wish I was able to come out to eat with you guys. Oh well. I'm sure there will be a next time.

Ox
10-15-07, 11:12 pm
Hey Ox, how are you? I checked my body fat percentage and it was 26%...I basically decided to stop bulking and start shredding for the first time ever. Basically I went over this whole thread and gathered a bunch of info on how to properly do this keto diet. Can you please check what I have to see if I am on track or not. I dont know if this helps but I am currently 20 years old weighing in at 210 lbs. I will be dieting for 16 weeks straight.

This is the diet I am going to follow which is exactly like yours but I will probably take less protein and fat since I am smaller then you.
Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Meal 2: 1.5 scoops Universal Egg Protein, 1.5 Scoops Universal Specialized Protein for gaining lean Mass, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: same as meal 2

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oli

Meal 6: same as meals 2+4

Except every sunday I will have one cheat meal consisting off eggs, oatmeal, banana, and sushi.

I will start off with 30 minutes of cardio daily adding 10 minutes every week. I will probably end up doing close to 45 minutes of cardio twice a day once before breakfast and once after my workout.

These are my supplements:
BCAAs
Animal Nitro
Animal Cuts
GH MAx
Uniliver
Animal Pak
Animal Pump
Fish oil
Flax seed oil

Does this look ok??

Looks good. The only changes are to cut your protein sources to 35g per meal and your fats to 16g. So you would drop your chicken/fish portions to like 5 oz and adjust the scoops of protein accordingly. Nuts would be 1/4 cup. Oils are 1 tbsp. For the eggs do 4 whole, 3 whites. As for the cheat meal it can be whatever you want. Good luck.

Ox
10-15-07, 11:13 pm
Evan it was an honor to train in the same gym with you. Best of luck at Nationals.

It was awesome bro. I hope we are able to do something like this again in the future.

kyderz
10-15-07, 11:24 pm
Ox,

I asked big Vin this question, and I would like a few opinions.

In terms of training, what is the best way to get great quad separation?

Mastrcruse
10-15-07, 11:26 pm
Looks good. The only changes are to cut your protein sources to 35g per meal and your fats to 16g. So you would drop your chicken/fish portions to like 5 oz and adjust the scoops of protein accordingly. Nuts would be 1/4 cup. Oils are 1 tbsp. For the eggs do 4 whole, 3 whites. As for the cheat meal it can be whatever you want. Good luck.


Would these portions keep coming down? I am 270lbs.

kyderz
10-15-07, 11:29 pm
Would these portions keep coming down? I am 270lbs.

Just remember bro, it was created for a 210 pounder.

Ox
10-16-07, 9:35 am
Would these portions keep coming down? I am 270lbs.

If you're 270 stick to the orginal layout.

alkalineman
10-16-07, 9:45 am
Anyone feel free to answer this. i'm around 230lb 30%bf, and im closing in on week 3.

Is this cheat meal too much?

3000 cal. 136g fat. 268g carb. 154g protein.

krazyassmexican
10-16-07, 9:46 am
Anyone feel free to answer this. i'm around 230lb 30%bf, and im closing in on week 3.

Is this cheat meal too much?

3000 cal. 136g fat. 268g carb. 154g protein.

dude
cheat meal
means CHEAT MEAL
dont measure anything! just eat

ChandlerXJ
10-16-07, 4:20 pm
Me, you, and Adam...http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/ChandlerXJ/Philly352.jpg

Me and Ox
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/ChandlerXJ/Philly350.jpg

Maccabee
10-16-07, 4:22 pm
Looks good. The only changes are to cut your protein sources to 35g per meal and your fats to 16g. So you would drop your chicken/fish portions to like 5 oz and adjust the scoops of protein accordingly. Nuts would be 1/4 cup. Oils are 1 tbsp. For the eggs do 4 whole, 3 whites. As for the cheat meal it can be whatever you want. Good luck.

Allright thanks a lot for taking the time to go over it. Peace

Maccabee
10-16-07, 4:40 pm
I might end up being a little low on cash. What would you recomend to be the most important supplements to take on a diet like this?

I know for a fact Animal Nitro, Cuts, Pak, those protein shakes you mentioned and BCAA's?? Do I really need anything else??

Also regarding the fish oil and flax seed oil...do I need to change the amount of that too? Or should I take whatever the label says?

Toni69
10-16-07, 4:52 pm
Hey Ox..I know your super busy..getting ready..doing all your fine tuning, although..how much better can you get? My Lord! LOL

I just wanted to say you rock..you look amazing and Im very excited for you.

"Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside of them was superior to circumstances."

bobbymart
10-16-07, 6:19 pm
Hey OX I know you get flooded with question and you're a busy guy I just wanted to say thanks for all you're help I have been doing the Keto diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 21lbs and still going could not have done it without you're advice thanks bro!

Maccabee
10-16-07, 6:56 pm
Hey OX I know you get flooded with question and you're a busy guy I just wanted to say thanks for all you're help I have been doing the Keto diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 21lbs and still going could not have done it without you're advice thanks bro!

WHAT!!! 2 weeks you lost 21 lbs?? Isnt that to much?? holy shit.

Reacher34
10-16-07, 7:47 pm
Ox....saw the pics that ChandlerXJ posted, you're looking good bro. You're gonna take that show for sure. The two other Animals in that pic are definitely looking the part also. Keep up the good work.

krazyassmexican
10-16-07, 8:39 pm
Me and Ox
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/ChandlerXJ/Philly350.jpg

fucking lucky man =(
LOL

hopefully one day i get a chance to get a pic with evan

mikejones1
10-16-07, 10:50 pm
Looks good. The only changes are to cut your protein sources to 35g per meal and your fats to 16g. So you would drop your chicken/fish portions to like 5 oz and adjust the scoops of protein accordingly. Nuts would be 1/4 cup. Oils are 1 tbsp. For the eggs do 4 whole, 3 whites. As for the cheat meal it can be whatever you want. Good luck.


wow i didnt even think about adjusting this from your diet, im 210 also. so when i would adjust the scoops of protein you think 1 scoop would be good rather than 1 1/2? also ox do you take this protein a half hour after you take a pack of nitro? if not what does you post workout supps look like? and have you thought about heading to ny in brooklyn for the ny 5 boroughs gathering? vinny and g are going to most likely be there also. i know you got your show coming up and it might not be a good time. was just wondering. and good luck.

NickSP
10-16-07, 11:13 pm
Yo Ox, gotta say you look great for 5 weeks out, gonna kick some ass on stage.
But yeah, you mentioned lettuce distends the stomach and spinach is good for avoiding that....what other kinds of foods would you recommend staying away from in terms of distention?

krazyassmexican
10-17-07, 9:50 am
Yo Ox, gotta say you look great for 5 weeks out, gonna kick some ass on stage.
But yeah, you mentioned lettuce distends the stomach and spinach is good for avoiding that....what other kinds of foods would you recommend staying away from in terms of distention?

he told me to stay away from broccoli
and eat spinach or alfalfa sprouts

bobbymart
10-17-07, 4:23 pm
WHAT!!! 2 weeks you lost 21 lbs?? Isnt that to much?? holy shit.

No I heard that u lose 15 to 20 lbs in the 1st 2 weeks.. Am I wrong I hope im not losing to much too fast. I am still setting pr's almost weekly.

krazyassmexican
10-17-07, 9:17 pm
No I heard that u lose 15 to 20 lbs in the 1st 2 weeks.. Am I wrong I hope im not losing to much too fast. I am still setting pr's almost weekly.

again if you read a few pages back ox said the first two weeks you could lose over 20lbs and it's mostly water
there's nothing to worry about

alkalineman
10-18-07, 7:07 am
i've almost finished 2 weeks and I've only lost a couple lbs and maybe a point of bodyfat. I look a LOT leaner though, especially around my midsection. I can't be losing that much muscle because I'm progressively getting stronger

Elite
10-18-07, 8:17 am
OX, where did you get the boxing boots you wore at philly, there badboys, i want a pair to train in.

Cheers...

Ox
10-18-07, 9:59 am
I might end up being a little low on cash. What would you recomend to be the most important supplements to take on a diet like this?

I know for a fact Animal Nitro, Cuts, Pak, those protein shakes you mentioned and BCAA's?? Do I really need anything else??

Also regarding the fish oil and flax seed oil...do I need to change the amount of that too? Or should I take whatever the label says?

The supps you named will do just fine. As for the fish oil and evening primrose oil (no flax oil) follow the reccomendation on the bottle.

Ox
10-18-07, 10:00 am
Hey Ox..I know your super busy..getting ready..doing all your fine tuning, although..how much better can you get? My Lord! LOL

I just wanted to say you rock..you look amazing and Im very excited for you.

"Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside of them was superior to circumstances."

Thanks Toni...I appreciate that so much. Cool quote...so true.

Ox
10-18-07, 10:01 am
Hey OX I know you get flooded with question and you're a busy guy I just wanted to say thanks for all you're help I have been doing the Keto diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 21lbs and still going could not have done it without you're advice thanks bro!

That's awesome bro. Stick to it!

Ox
10-18-07, 10:02 am
Ox....saw the pics that ChandlerXJ posted, you're looking good bro. You're gonna take that show for sure. The two other Animals in that pic are definitely looking the part also. Keep up the good work.

Thanks buddy. The show isn't mine until I have that trophy. As of right now, I think of myself in last place. Gotta work my way to first.

Ox
10-18-07, 10:03 am
wow i didnt even think about adjusting this from your diet, im 210 also. so when i would adjust the scoops of protein you think 1 scoop would be good rather than 1 1/2? also ox do you take this protein a half hour after you take a pack of nitro? if not what does you post workout supps look like? and have you thought about heading to ny in brooklyn for the ny 5 boroughs gathering? vinny and g are going to most likely be there also. i know you got your show coming up and it might not be a good time. was just wondering. and good luck.

I adjusted the diet a page back or so...check it out. Take the Nitro first and your protein a half hour later.

Ox
10-18-07, 10:05 am
No I heard that u lose 15 to 20 lbs in the 1st 2 weeks.. Am I wrong I hope im not losing to much too fast. I am still setting pr's almost weekly.

That's normal. The weight lose will taper off. You lose a lot of water in the beggining. Then you will burn pure fat.

Ox
10-18-07, 10:06 am
OX, where did you get the boxing boots you wore at philly, there badboys, i want a pair to train in.

Cheers...

Hahaha...do you know how many people ask me that? They're just Asics wrestling shoes that I got at Dick's. I like em though...they work well.

jatuke
10-18-07, 3:56 pm
Hey Ox,

Long time reader, first time poster: I'm training for a competition, and I've been following your keto diet.

What do you recommend as for the diet in peak week and last couple weeks? Do I stick with the diet you laid out up until the day of the show, or do you suggest any refeeds/carb manipulations?

As always appreciate the valuable feedback. Thanks.

Reacher34
10-18-07, 5:26 pm
Thanks buddy. The show isn't mine until I have that trophy. As of right now, I think of myself in last place. Gotta work my way to first.

I can respect that.

alkalineman
10-18-07, 8:09 pm
I'm sorry to take up space again but I was wondering if "Red Wine Vinegar" would be ok on this diet to put on my spinach. It doesn't have any carbs and has like 2 cals but I don't know the specifics on wine "cooking out" or if it counts as a carb. I've been eating it since I started the diet and just wanted to make sure it wasn't screwing me up. You can PM me with your response if you don't want to take up space in Ox's thread. Thanks again

I was also wondering if Mrs. Dash is ok, because in the ingredients it has various different vegetables which are carbs. I want to make sure I'm fully in ketosis

Rhetoric
10-19-07, 1:33 pm
Hey Ox,

Long time reader, first time poster: I'm training for a competition, and I've been following your keto diet.

What do you recommend as for the diet in peak week and last couple weeks? Do I stick with the diet you laid out up until the day of the show, or do you suggest any refeeds/carb manipulations?

As always appreciate the valuable feedback. Thanks.

Hey Ox,
On a simliar note, have ever rotated fat intake towards the end of the diet? I am planning on dropping a significant amount of fat from the diet at 4 weeks out, but I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to rotate fat intake (high/medium/low?) for the 2 weeks prior.

kyderz
10-19-07, 10:04 pm
Good idea Rhetoric.

That has also made me ponder a bit...

Ox, enlighten us..

I also think Ox mentioned PJ B drops all fats and carbs out for the last 4 weeks to shred the glutes..if the glutes are shredded, everything else must be too, eh?

alkalineman
10-20-07, 6:10 pm
To add to my above post, I wanted to ask if any kind of vinegar, not just red wine was permissible since it is made from grains. I know that on the bottle of Balsamic vinegar it has carbs.I noticed someone earlier had vinegar added to their salad but I wasn't sure.

stumblin54
10-21-07, 4:30 pm
Nice article in the new MD Ox. I enjoyed the shoutout to Frank McGrath too.

Stumblin

ChandlerXJ
10-21-07, 4:57 pm
Hey Ox,

Long time reader, first time poster: I'm training for a competition, and I've been following your keto diet.

What do you recommend as for the diet in peak week and last couple weeks? Do I stick with the diet you laid out up until the day of the show, or do you suggest any refeeds/carb manipulations?

As always appreciate the valuable feedback. Thanks.

great question and good thinking dude, looking forward to the answer - i've been wondering the same

alkalineman
10-21-07, 5:16 pm
i was told that the carbs in red wine vinegar is negligble and wouldn't screw with ketosis? true or false?

Maccabee
10-21-07, 6:25 pm
Nice article in the new MD Ox. I enjoyed the shoutout to Frank McGrath too.

Stumblin

Ya I read that one too.