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Ox
10-22-07, 10:12 am
Hey Ox,

Long time reader, first time poster: I'm training for a competition, and I've been following your keto diet.

What do you recommend as for the diet in peak week and last couple weeks? Do I stick with the diet you laid out up until the day of the show, or do you suggest any refeeds/carb manipulations?

As always appreciate the valuable feedback. Thanks.

Stick to the diet. At three days out from the show introduce carbs into the diet. Depending on your weight, incorporate 20-35g of carbs (rice, potato, oats) with each meal.

Ox
10-22-07, 10:13 am
I'm sorry to take up space again but I was wondering if "Red Wine Vinegar" would be ok on this diet to put on my spinach. It doesn't have any carbs and has like 2 cals but I don't know the specifics on wine "cooking out" or if it counts as a carb. I've been eating it since I started the diet and just wanted to make sure it wasn't screwing me up. You can PM me with your response if you don't want to take up space in Ox's thread. Thanks again

I was also wondering if Mrs. Dash is ok, because in the ingredients it has various different vegetables which are carbs. I want to make sure I'm fully in ketosis

Mrs. Dash, salt, spices, and red wine vinegar are all ok.

Ox
10-22-07, 10:14 am
Hey Ox,
On a simliar note, have ever rotated fat intake towards the end of the diet? I am planning on dropping a significant amount of fat from the diet at 4 weeks out, but I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to rotate fat intake (high/medium/low?) for the 2 weeks prior.

If you're not where you need to be, you may have to go with no fats. You could do 2-3 days no fats and then have a day of fats. It really depends on what you have to do to come in peeled.

Greg_G
10-22-07, 10:56 am
Ox...

First off, love the MD articles... Second, love the photo shoot you had in an issue a few months ago with that hottie, I can't remember her name...

Okay, now to business...

I am on the brink of a new supplemental cycle and I am trying to get my diet down. I am currently deployed to the AOR(Desert) and I work nights so I can't make my own food, I have to eat what is served when it is served. But I have found a way to get in this fallowing diet...

Meal 1- 2 chicken breats, veggies, carbs
Meal 2- 2 chicken breasts
Meal 3- 2 chicken breats, veggies, egg whites
Meal 4- 2 chicken breats, mixed nuts and raisins
Meal 5- Egg whites & Oatmeal
*Workout*
Meal 6- Shake... then bed...

Right now I am drinking Whey but I have a Casein and Whey blend in the mail right now for my post workout shake/pre bed shake. I can manage to get tons of chicken and veggies in so I figure that hopefully that will be good.

I also take a Multi, Fish Oil, Milkthistle, BCAAS, and Creatine...

Thanks for any help.

-Greg

SomeDayI'llBeXL
10-23-07, 3:18 pm
Yo Ox,


Just saw some pics of you on another thread at, I think, 4 weeks out.....Dude, fucking peeled. You did an awesome job bringing your legs up. Im not saying they were small or bad before,not in the least bit, but comparing pics, there is a difference. Good luck snagging that pro card. You've got an entire family of animals behind you.


Good Luck Brothers

Ox
10-24-07, 9:05 am
Ox...

First off, love the MD articles... Second, love the photo shoot you had in an issue a few months ago with that hottie, I can't remember her name...

Okay, now to business...

I am on the brink of a new supplemental cycle and I am trying to get my diet down. I am currently deployed to the AOR(Desert) and I work nights so I can't make my own food, I have to eat what is served when it is served. But I have found a way to get in this fallowing diet...

Meal 1- 2 chicken breats, veggies, carbs
Meal 2- 2 chicken breasts
Meal 3- 2 chicken breats, veggies, egg whites
Meal 4- 2 chicken breats, mixed nuts and raisins
Meal 5- Egg whites & Oatmeal
*Workout*
Meal 6- Shake... then bed...

Right now I am drinking Whey but I have a Casein and Whey blend in the mail right now for my post workout shake/pre bed shake. I can manage to get tons of chicken and veggies in so I figure that hopefully that will be good.

I also take a Multi, Fish Oil, Milkthistle, BCAAS, and Creatine...

Thanks for any help.

-Greg

The diet looks good. You didn;t mention if you were tryin to bulk or cut. If you are cutting keep it like this minus the carbs and add about 20g of fat to each meal. If youa re tryin to bulk do a 1:1:1 calorie ratio.The supps are fine.

Ox
10-24-07, 9:06 am
Yo Ox,


Just saw some pics of you on another thread at, I think, 4 weeks out.....Dude, fucking peeled. You did an awesome job bringing your legs up. Im not saying they were small or bad before,not in the least bit, but comparing pics, there is a difference. Good luck snagging that pro card. You've got an entire family of animals behind you.


Good Luck Brothers

Thanks man I really appreciate that. Not there yet but I'm on track. The day of the show, I'll be ready!

Maccabee
10-24-07, 10:39 am
How you doin Ox. I have some qeustions for ya.

I am going to have all the supps by next week for this Keto Diet. The thing is I am in college now and I am low on cash. What do I do if I run out of the shakes and Nitro? I am guessin I have to replace it with meals, but what would be a proper meal to have 30 minutes after a workout??

Ox
10-24-07, 11:25 am
How you doin Ox. I have some qeustions for ya.

I am going to have all the supps by next week for this Keto Diet. The thing is I am in college now and I am low on cash. What do I do if I run out of the shakes and Nitro? I am guessin I have to replace it with meals, but what would be a proper meal to have 30 minutes after a workout??

6 whole eggs.

ChandlerXJ
10-24-07, 11:55 am
evan the time is near man... you're in last place now- dead last for all you're concerned... fight to the top... this is yours man, THIS IS YOURS!!!

“Inches make a champion.” - Vince Lombardi

Climb every god damn inch to the top man!

Skwat
10-26-07, 1:40 pm
Anybody know about a ketogenic diet and type one diabetics? Im a type one diabetic and am looking into trying it, but i heard going into ketosis from zero carbs can cause diabetic ketosis(or something im not really sure lol)
Does anyone have any knowledge or insight on type one diabetics using ketogenic diets?

Rhetoric
10-30-07, 1:22 pm
Hey Ox, what do you suggest in terms of sodium manipulation during the final week of contest prep?

ckampf14
10-30-07, 8:03 pm
Ox, you mentioned using GH max as part of your supplement regimen. Is Post Cycle Therapy needed after taking GH max, and if so, what would that include?

Ox
10-30-07, 10:32 pm
Hey Ox, what do you suggest in terms of sodium manipulation during the final week of contest prep?

I try to keep adding salt to my foods right up until maybe 2 days before the show then I cut it.

Ox
10-30-07, 10:33 pm
Ox, you mentioned using GH max as part of your supplement regimen. Is Post Cycle Therapy needed after taking GH max, and if so, what would that include?

No. GH max boosts your body's own production of GH naturally. It does not replace it and or inhibit it so no, you do not need to do anything once you stop taking it.

Rhetoric
10-31-07, 1:28 pm
I try to keep adding salt to my foods right up until maybe 2 days before the show then I cut it.

Thanks. What are your typical carb up choices? I'm leaning towards oatmeal and possibly white rice.
How is your prep going? Light at the end of the tunnel... I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that you will come out on top. Give 'em hell.

Ox
10-31-07, 10:53 pm
Thanks. What are your typical carb up choices? I'm leaning towards oatmeal and possibly white rice.
How is your prep going? Light at the end of the tunnel... I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that you will come out on top. Give 'em hell.

Same here bro..white rice, quick oats, and maybe cream of rice or sweet potato. I may throw in a little sweet potato to keep my insides moving if I start to dry up in there. Otherwise, white rice works well for me. I think the light at the end of the tunnell is hanging over a table with a turkey, stuffing, sweet potatos and pumpkin pie. Oh wait...that's Thanksgiving. Can't fuckin wait.

Rhetoric
11-01-07, 12:26 am
Same here bro..white rice, quick oats, and maybe cream of rice or sweet potato. I may throw in a little sweet potato to keep my insides moving if I start to dry up in there. Otherwise, white rice works well for me. I think the light at the end of the tunnell is hanging over a table with a turkey, stuffing, sweet potatos and pumpkin pie. Oh wait...that's Thanksgiving. Can't fuckin wait.

Ha, yeah, the timing worked out well with Nationals being the week before Thanksgiving. You're stoked on that, I'm sure. That holiday dinner will probably taste a lot better as a pro. As always, thanks for your input. Can't wait to see you tear it up in a couple weeks. Good luck!

Toni69
11-01-07, 4:02 am
Crap! I forgot about Thanksgiving dinner! I have to cook this feast for everyone but me...now that sucks! Its bad enough that I have resorted to sniffing all of my kid's halloween candy that is sitting on my kitchen table right now.

Ox....thinking of you and your show! Your gonna do so awesome, I can feel it!

BigAnt
11-02-07, 12:11 am
Same here bro..white rice, quick oats, and maybe cream of rice or sweet potato. I may throw in a little sweet potato to keep my insides moving if I start to dry up in there. Otherwise, white rice works well for me. I think the light at the end of the tunnell is hanging over a table with a turkey, stuffing, sweet potatos and pumpkin pie. Oh wait...that's Thanksgiving. Can't fuckin wait.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ox, no pasta or wedding soup on Thanksgiving for you and your family?

I live for this Holiday--Italian style...I call it vicious food cycle, eat at one family members house, 4 hours later visit another and eat again! Cardio a must on Black Friday!

naturalguy
11-03-07, 9:38 am
2 weeks to go brother, finish strong!!!

Pizzalamp
11-04-07, 8:56 pm
ox-good luck bro!!!
im also looking forward to meeting u at golds on dec 1

naturalguy
11-05-07, 7:21 am
Evan is going to be on No Bull Radio tonight:

http://forum.animalpak.com/showthread.php?p=212186#post212186

alkalineman
11-05-07, 3:52 pm
I have a question for you all. I am under the assumption there are two types of chicken that you can buy. One would contain something like a 5-15% solution of water,salt and/or a dextrose/maltodextrin/ or some other kind of carbohydrate solution. On the other hand, some companies will tell you their chicken is minimally processed with no artificial ingredients and may or may not contain something like water and salt. At my work, I did some research and the chicken that we serve is the kind with the artifical ingredients. I work for 5-6 hours and I have to eat quick because I am constantly working and only have time to drink a shake or down a handful of almonds from time to time. I would like to fit in two meals in this time frame, and I don't want them both to be shake and almonds. A few weeks ago I had got into a habit of eating the chicken there and later found out that it was the kind containing the dextrose solution or whatever it is. I had also thought back to that time and I felt sluggish and tired after I ate it and had determined it to be because of the chicken. I stopped eating it and have for a couple of weeks, and feel better. I don't know if it was the chicken or not, and wanted everyones opinion on this kind of chicken for a keto diet. It seems to be more expensive to buy the kind of chicken that doesn't have a solution. But I did find bags of frozen chicken that I'm pretty sure don't have the solution. So I guess the question is should I stop eating this chicken at work for a meal because of it having the solution. Does anyone else eat the kind of chicken with the solution on this diet? I want to have a perfect diet and I see this as an obstacle. Thanks

Toni69
11-05-07, 6:45 pm
For me, I tend to stay away from anything that has added preservatives and/or un-natural ingredients..Im talking whole foods here cause we know our supps have preservatives and such. I believe Tyson makes all natural chicken breasts..no added crap or hormone to their products.

If you look at most fast food joints, even on the notorious "healthier options" menu, most of their items will contain emulsifiers, preservatives, MSG, artificial colors and fats, trans fats and hidden ingredients under generic labels such as spices, or natural and artificial flavors. This is why I never eat fast food. Some of these food additives are not foods at all, but are chemicals that are generally recognized as safe. This crap is bad for you! Your chicken should be pure chicken breast..nothing added to it. Its worth the extra dollar or whatever per lb..at least I think so.

The reason for adding food additives, colorings and flavoring to meat is to conceal their inferior quality and extend their shelf life. Normally this type of meat is higher in fat content and lower in nutritional quality. A healthy body may cope with digesting an amount of this meat for a while, but I am sure that within time, over-consumption of products containing all this crap will eventually lead to health problems down the line.

Chicken breast shouldnt have carbs anyway...its an added chemical that is not good for you, whether your on a keto diet or not.

krazyassmexican
11-06-07, 9:12 am
evan i heard your interview on no bull.... radio
it was awesome!

ChandlerXJ
11-06-07, 10:17 am
Evan, what an interview man... seriously man, you're just an all around good person. Sorry for your loss and turn it into something positive.

You got a good heart bro.

You don't need any luck in Dallas... you got this.

Is your birthday on the 17th?

krazyassmexican
11-06-07, 1:24 pm
and before i forget
FUCK D.A.
you are the king bro
no doubt!

alkalineman
11-06-07, 3:39 pm
so is that kind of chicken going to hurt your ketosis?

Toni69
11-06-07, 3:43 pm
so is that kind of chicken going to hurt your ketosis?

what is a serving and how many carbs does it have? If you factor that in with the small amounts in nut butters (like natty pb), raw nuts, whatever is in your protein powders...it adds up...if it adds up enough, I would think it could affect your diet..but not extremely. For me, on this zero carb thing..Im very precise and all about numbers. So, it would be a big deal for me...Ox would know best but he is focusing for this upcoming show and will be back soon.

alkalineman
11-06-07, 4:12 pm
well, it's tricky because it says on the nutrition it's 0 carbs. But the ingredients say maltodextrin, dextose solution. I'm sure it is in everyone's local grocery store. Some chicken has a solution and some don't. I might just put up a couple extra dollars to make sure it's not going to hurt me in the long run. I read back a while ago that Ox said if it says stuff like dextrose, maltodextrin, or sugar in the ingredients, even if it says it has 0 carbs, don't eat it or drink it.

Ox
11-07-07, 9:36 am
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ox, no pasta or wedding soup on Thanksgiving for you and your family?

I live for this Holiday--Italian style...I call it vicious food cycle, eat at one family members house, 4 hours later visit another and eat again! Cardio a must on Black Friday!

Hahaha..a vicous food cycle...thats how I used to eat when I when I was a kid. My grandparents lived across the street and my aunt lived next door. I used to eat breakfast at all 3 houses every morning! Damn I miss that. There will be no cardio on Black Friday or the following few Fridays for that matter! Good luck in the last few days of prep bro. Peace.

Ox
11-07-07, 9:37 am
ox-good luck bro!!!
im also looking forward to meeting u at golds on dec 1

It'll be awesome...you guys are gonna love this place.

Ox
11-07-07, 9:39 am
I have a question for you all. I am under the assumption there are two types of chicken that you can buy. One would contain something like a 5-15% solution of water,salt and/or a dextrose/maltodextrin/ or some other kind of carbohydrate solution. On the other hand, some companies will tell you their chicken is minimally processed with no artificial ingredients and may or may not contain something like water and salt. At my work, I did some research and the chicken that we serve is the kind with the artifical ingredients. I work for 5-6 hours and I have to eat quick because I am constantly working and only have time to drink a shake or down a handful of almonds from time to time. I would like to fit in two meals in this time frame, and I don't want them both to be shake and almonds. A few weeks ago I had got into a habit of eating the chicken there and later found out that it was the kind containing the dextrose solution or whatever it is. I had also thought back to that time and I felt sluggish and tired after I ate it and had determined it to be because of the chicken. I stopped eating it and have for a couple of weeks, and feel better. I don't know if it was the chicken or not, and wanted everyones opinion on this kind of chicken for a keto diet. It seems to be more expensive to buy the kind of chicken that doesn't have a solution. But I did find bags of frozen chicken that I'm pretty sure don't have the solution. So I guess the question is should I stop eating this chicken at work for a meal because of it having the solution. Does anyone else eat the kind of chicken with the solution on this diet? I want to have a perfect diet and I see this as an obstacle. Thanks

Stay away from the chicken woth the additives. I find the best thing to do is buy the split breast chicken on the bone with the skin and trim it off myself. For some reason, I don't think they are able to pump the chicken with water and other shit whne you buy it this way. They do that shit just to add water weight to the chicken so you're paying for water and not protein. Anything over 3% is unnacceptable.

Ox
11-07-07, 9:42 am
and before i forget
FUCK D.A.
you are the king bro
no doubt!


Evan, what an interview man... seriously man, you're just an all around good person. Sorry for your loss and turn it into something positive.

You got a good heart bro.

You don't need any luck in Dallas... you got this.

Is your birthday on the 17th?


evan i heard your interview on no bull.... radio
it was awesome!

Thanks guys. The past week or so so has been pretty tough but I'm all business. The dieting and training are physically and mentally draining enough and to take an emotional beating sucks. But fuck it...I will be better and HARDER for it.

krazyassmexican
11-07-07, 9:43 am
Thanks guys. The past week or so so has been pretty tough but I'm all business. The dieting and training are physically and mentally draining enough and to take an emotional beating sucks. But fuck it...I will be better and HARDER for it.

you can always take advantage of tuff times you can always have a better performance on the gym and stuff
well i dont have to tell you what you know already ;)

Griff_225
11-07-07, 10:09 am
Hey Ox,

Im back from Iraq, jsut got all settled and built the diet, the workout and the stak. let me know what you think. Anyone else feel free to pipe in too!!

Currently I weight 235. goals are to cut fat and bulk up my shoulders and arms. Chest and back are pretty good but I need to catch the rest up.

Plan is for a diet of
360g Protein
360g Carbs
3600 Cals
120g Fat

The daily diet and stak plus times are as follows:

0500-
10g Protein shake. (shake is similar to Iso-Whey, but diff brand.)
Animal Cuts
2 Xnadrine pills
(This is when I go for a run, usually between 20-30mins. Do AM cardio Mon-Tues- Thurs-Fri)

Post-Cardio-
20g Protein Shake (same Iso-=Whey stuff)
glutamine tab 500mg

0700- Breakfast- 6 eggs. 3 yolks, 3 whites
1/2cup oatmeal(precook weight)
1 tablespoon flax seed powder in oatmeal
2 Uni-Liver tabs
animal pak
animal flex

0900- 6oz chicken
1/2cup rice(uncooked weight)
fruit (usually pear or strawberries)
broccoli (1 cup uncooked weight)
2 uni-liver tabs

1100-Pre workout
20g Protein shake (same Iso-Whey)
2 tablespoons of oatmeal in shake
Xnadrine -2 pills
Storm

(SEE BELOW FOR WORKOUT)

Post-Workout-Approx 1300
40g Protein Shake (same Iso-Whey)
Glutamine tab
Storm
torrent

Lunch-1400- 6oz chicken
1/2 cup(uncooked weight) rice
fruit- strawberries or pears
broccoli- 1 cup uncooked weight
2 uni-liver tabs

Mid-Afternoon- 1600- 6 oz chicken
1/2cup rice (uncooked weight) (LAST CARB OF DAY)
fruit- strawberries or pears
broccoli- 1 cup uncooked weight
2 uni-liver tabs

Dinner- 1800- 6oz chicken
1 cup uncooked weight broccoli
2 uni-liver tabs

pre bed- appox 2000 or 2100- 20g Protein shake (Casein, Whey Blend)
2 tablespoons Peanut butter (chunky)

Now for the workout- I do a 5 on- 2 off schedule. I take saturday and Sunday off.
I normally do a few warmup sets in the beginning of each mucle group. apporx 6-10 reps for 3-5 sets per. I try to mix it up and do what I can to get a good pump. My wokrouts take apporx one hour to 75mins.

Mondays- Bis-Tris-fores

straight bar curls
alternting dumbbell curls
bi culr machine single arm
hammer curls

rope pressdowns
skull crushers- down to the eyes, not over the head
over head single arm dumbbell extentions
revers grip pushdowns

reverse grip barbell forearm curls, on the bench.
front grip barbellcurls
standing behind back barbell forearm curls

Tuesday-Legs

double leg ext
Front Squats
Leg Press
single leg ext

lying leg curls
stiff leg deads
wide stance leg press
standing leg curls

leg press calf ext
standing calf machine
reverse calf pulls(for the front of the calfs)

Wednesday- Back-traps

Weighted Pullups
Bent over Barbell rows-wide grip
Pull downs
T-bar rows
chin-ups

weighted lower back extentons

simth shrugs
dumbell shrugs

Thurs- Chest fores

Dips- w/ weights
dumbbell incline press
dumbbell flat press
smith flat press
smith incline press
iso-fly machine

reverse grip barbell forearm curls, on the bench.
front grip barbellcurls
standing behind back barbell forearm curls

Friday- Shoulders- calfs, abductors and aductors

dumbbell overhead press
barbell overhead press
dumbell side raises
dumbell front raises
reverse pec deck

abductors machine
aductors machine

leg press calf ext
standing calf machine
reverse calf pulls(for the front of the calfs)

I do Abs 2-4 days per week depending on when I have time and I vary what I do for them. I jsut make sure that I hit the top, the bottom and the sides each time and work them hard varying weights and resistance with doing higher numbers to burn them out.

Other than that I cant think of much else. I try and get 8 hours of sleep a nite. I dont drink coffee or pop. I drink 1.5-2 gallons of water per day.

Anyone got any suggestions or comments?

humanforklift
11-07-07, 6:24 pm
Hey Evan, I'm looking for some clarification about diet while bulking. I'm a hardgainer who is on a bulk cycle and my carb choices are oatmeal, kashi cereal, sweet potatoes, bananas, and twice a week a half of a bagel with my first meal. I'm a bit confused because I just saw House's new bulk diet and he is keeping his carbs pretty clean- lots of green beans. I cycle cabrs during the week and drop my intake down to 200 grams in two successive days. I search the thread and saw that you recommended bananas and oats as good bulk foods....just want to make sure my carb choices are ok!

Also, good luck at Nationals man...the show is yours. Connecticut bodybuilding represent!

The Landlord
11-07-07, 11:29 pm
Hi Evan this is The House's wife! I have heard him talk alot about you and I just wanted to say good luck at the nationals from the Fankhouser Family! House will be there to cheer you on to victory!!! Oh yeah thanks for driving him safely to Philly..lol.

krazyassmexican
11-08-07, 9:40 am
evan i got a question!

coffee!
is it ok if i drink some freaking coffee?
now days i'll be fiending for coffee but i dont know if it is ok to drink it
so i always wait till cheat meal to have it
and yeah went i am cheating last thing i think about is coffee! LOL

ChandlerXJ
11-08-07, 10:17 am
Krazy, i think stimulants are bad on keto, I remember hearing/reading it somewhere. If you want the taste, I'd just get some ultra decaf or something.

krazyassmexican
11-08-07, 10:20 am
Krazy, i think stimulants are bad on keto, I remember hearing/reading it somewhere. If you want the taste, I'd just get some ultra decaf or something.

zero g, carnitech, animal cuts, animal pump they have stimulants! and i have been using them

oh yeah specialized protein for dieters has carnitine

Rhetoric
11-08-07, 1:40 pm
Hey bro, just wanted to say I listened to your interview on "No Bull Radio" and that I'm sorry to hear about your loss. That's certainly a tough thing to deal with, especially at a time when you are focusing on such a monumental goal, but it sounds like you have turned the situation into something motivational as opposed to discouraging. Best wishes to you and your family, and good luck in your last week of prep. Only a few more days as an amateur...

kyderz
11-08-07, 3:17 pm
Listen to the interview.

If Ev drinks coffee, I'm sure it's fine for you to do the same.

Especially with him in show prep...

Do it!

kyderz
11-08-07, 3:19 pm
Did we decide on no milk, due to the sugars in it?

Cuz I can drink a gallon of milk per day, easy.

krazyassmexican
11-09-07, 7:00 am
Listen to the interview.

If Ev drinks coffee, I'm sure it's fine for you to do the same.

Especially with him in show prep...

Do it!

yeah i heard he was talking about it

just wanted to make sure ;)
thanks

Ox
11-10-07, 11:07 am
Hi Evan this is The House's wife! I have heard him talk alot about you and I just wanted to say good luck at the nationals from the Fankhouser Family! House will be there to cheer you on to victory!!! Oh yeah thanks for driving him safely to Philly..lol.

Hello Mrs. House! Erik is a great guy and I had a great time getting to know him and see what he is all about. I only ever heard good things about him before hanging out with him but then being around him for a few days, I got to see first hand what a sincere and down to Earth guy he is. He's a kind person and a family man. You don't come across too many "good guys" but the House is definitely one of em and I'm proud to be on the same team as him. Thank you so much for the post and for the support. It means a lot to me. Make sure you feed that boy! I'm sure it's not a problem though, he seems to do a pretty good job at it. Thanks again. Talk to you soon.

-Ox

Ox
11-10-07, 11:08 am
evan i got a question!

coffee!
is it ok if i drink some freaking coffee?
now days i'll be fiending for coffee but i dont know if it is ok to drink it
so i always wait till cheat meal to have it
and yeah went i am cheating last thing i think about is coffee! LOL

Drink as much coffee as you want. Sweeten with Stevia only or drink black. Mixing your protein powder with cold coffee and peanut butter is f*in slammin'.

Ox
11-10-07, 11:09 am
Krazy, i think stimulants are bad on keto, I remember hearing/reading it somewhere. If you want the taste, I'd just get some ultra decaf or something.

The coffee is okay you just want to avoid a shitload of caffeine and or ephedra etc. The amount in a cup or two of coffee is okay.

Ox
11-10-07, 11:10 am
Hey bro, just wanted to say I listened to your interview on "No Bull Radio" and that I'm sorry to hear about your loss. That's certainly a tough thing to deal with, especially at a time when you are focusing on such a monumental goal, but it sounds like you have turned the situation into something motivational as opposed to discouraging. Best wishes to you and your family, and good luck in your last week of prep. Only a few more days as an amateur...

Thank you very much. That means a lot to me. All business.

Ox
11-10-07, 11:11 am
Did we decide on no milk, due to the sugars in it?

Cuz I can drink a gallon of milk per day, easy.

Absoultely no milk or any dairy for that matter when dieting.

krazyassmexican
11-10-07, 11:17 am
Drink as much coffee as you want. Sweeten with Stevia only or drink black. Mixing your protein powder with cold coffee and peanut butter is f*in slammin'.

hey that's a great tip
thanks a lot i am gonna try it later on today pre cardio to get a lil boost LOL
thanks mr ifbb pro
king evan!

BigAnt
11-11-07, 8:01 am
Keep strong!

Hope your last few days of prep goes very well!

Have a safe flight to Dallas, TX. Hopefully you Big Al and myself can grab some group pictures!

The Landlord
11-11-07, 3:23 pm
Hello Mrs. House! Erik is a great guy and I had a great time getting to know him and see what he is all about. I only ever heard good things about him before hanging out with him but then being around him for a few days, I got to see first hand what a sincere and down to Earth guy he is. He's a kind person and a family man. You don't come across too many "good guys" but the House is definitely one of em and I'm proud to be on the same team as him. Thank you so much for the post and for the support. It means a lot to me. Make sure you feed that boy! I'm sure it's not a problem though, he seems to do a pretty good job at it. Thanks again. Talk to you soon.

-Ox

Thank you very much I like to think he is ok..lol. He is definetly a down to earth guy! We always hear great things about you as well from others and it is nice that we are able to finally meet you. You have our support 100% thats what family is for! Believe me the big guy has no problem with eating right now...lol. We might have to widen the doorways if this keeps up..lol. Well best of luck at your show I will be looking forward to hearing from Erik on how awesome you look! Safe travels and God bless!

naturalguy
11-13-07, 7:07 pm
Just watched the MD in the trenches video. You looking ready Ox.

For those that want to see it:

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=16981

Elite
11-13-07, 7:21 pm
Just watched the MD in the trenches video. You looking ready Ox.

For those that want to see it:

http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php?t=16981

Am hitting back in the morning. This is gonna get motivational, time to get comfy and watch Ox in motion...

Elite
11-13-07, 7:55 pm
Pooo, only 4 parts of the 12 available to watch.......

But those 4 parts were great. Evan, your back is in a permanent lat spread, its freaky wide. You look amazing. Your bringing it home bud!

Toni69
11-14-07, 2:19 am
Ev, I know I said this before..and that was only because I thought your show was a couple weeks ago..silly me! This wkd right! :)

I know your feeling good now, ready to get on that stage and strut your stuff. I was gonna say good luck, but honestly, I dont think you need it; you have the phenomenal physique, confidence and award winning smile to prove it! I will say you rock, and I know your gonna make some heads roll..I only wish I was there to see it!

On that note...

"In the middle of a world that had always been a bit mad, the cat walks with confidence.”

violator
11-14-07, 8:29 am
Good luck with the nationals Ox!!, ull take it for sure!

G Diesel
11-14-07, 8:44 am
Time to do fuckin damage bro... We're all damn proud of you. Peace, G

krazyassmexican
11-14-07, 8:54 am
my best wishes and blessings evan

we are proud of you, we got your back and we know you are gonna go back home with a pro card

Extreme
11-14-07, 3:31 pm
Hey Ox,

I know you're getting ready to stun and shock the world as the next IFBB Pro, and I can't wait to see the results. But, when things get back to semi-normal I have a question for ya. I'm coming off of a bulk, finishing a cycle of TEST and Stak 2 and am looking to start a cut using the keto diet. I'm sitting at a weight of 268 and am not sure about body fat percentage, but I know it's way up there. I've been using the #4 workout routine found in the AOM, which incorporates high reps, or repping to failure in all sets, and have seen some great results in my overall stamina and strength. My question is this: Do you recommend certain exercises, sets, reps, ect., when cutting or do I continue on lifting as I normally would? I usually change things up every two to three weeks, but just wanted to know if you had in suggestions, or do's and don't's when lifting on this diet. And I apalogize if this has been brought up on this thread already, but I scoped it out and found a lot of info on the diet, but not much on lifting routines while on this diet. I know listening to my body is key, I'm just looking for a base to start out with. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Much Respect.

bobbymart
11-14-07, 4:18 pm
Good luck OX tear shit up bro!

humanforklift
11-14-07, 8:34 pm
holy shit Ev, just saw your video with dave from muscular development. You look incredible bro, the legs looks even better and I think your arms are even bigger! Nationals belongs to you man, no disrespect to the competition, but you deserve this win!

Mastrcruse
11-17-07, 1:09 am
Hey Ox,
I have been following your keto diet for about 6 weeks. Have had great results, I look leaner in the mirror. I just put CUTS in the diet too so I hope to get even better results.

I was wondering, hopefully not to crude, do you use a stool softner when you are on this diet? Good lord, I am fucking hurtin.

kyderz
11-17-07, 3:50 am
The day of truth..

bobbymart
11-17-07, 1:09 pm
Hey Ox,
I have been following your keto diet for about 6 weeks. Have had great results, I look leaner in the mirror. I just put CUTS in the diet too so I hope to get even better results.

I was wondering, hopefully not to crude, do you use a stool softner when you are on this diet? Good lord, I am fucking hurtin.

Use metamucil! that is what I used on the diet!

kyderz
11-17-07, 8:15 pm
So..I'm waiting for these fucking results.

G Diesel
11-17-07, 9:02 pm
Looks like Ox is taking this whole damn show... Bringin' the hardware home to the East Coast. Much respect bro. We're all so damn proud of ya. Peace, G

eblnyc
11-17-07, 9:14 pm
good luck evan..your gonna do great in dallas..i know it...

G Diesel
11-17-07, 11:49 pm
There is another IFBB Pro in our midst... Congrats bro. This is just the beginning. Peace, G

The Landlord
11-17-07, 11:50 pm
Congrats Evan on your first place in your weight class and your overall title!!!! You looked great! From the Fankhouser family...congrats again!

MDur8
11-17-07, 11:54 pm
Congratulations bro....You worked your ass of and you deserve nothing less than that pro card

kyderz
11-17-07, 11:58 pm
FUCKIN RIGHT, DUDE!

CONGRATULATIONS!

This is fucking awesome to hear.

You worked your ass off, and deserved every fucking bit of it, bro.

ChandlerXJ
11-17-07, 11:58 pm
Oh Yeah Baby!!!

NickSP
11-18-07, 1:49 am
Newest pro in the IFBB, congratulations man.

mex.i.can
11-18-07, 2:16 am
first of all, i would like to congratulate you on getting your pro card. saw some of the pics over at bodybuilding.com and you looked monstrous.

on to my questions. i'm currently 5'10" and weigh about 255lbs. been thinking about doing your pre-contest diet to lose some excess baggage starting a week from monday since i have to get my supplies in first. so here are my questions...

1) the diet on page 2 states you have to eat 2 cups of green salad. does it have to be strictly green salad or can it be green beans like you were eating in those muscular development videos?

2)i usually wake up at 5am so i can be at the gym working out by 6am. should i eat the first meal before i workout, a shake post-workout, and then continue with meal #2 sometime after that? should i only drink a protein shake before i workout and then start meal #1 immediately after working out?

thanks in advance.

naturalguy
11-18-07, 7:48 am
Congrats Evan. Overall winner at the 25th anniversary of the Nationals:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/er1994/OxandHaney.jpg

Pizzalamp
11-18-07, 9:57 am
Congrats Evan!
U really deserved this!

Feel The Power
11-18-07, 10:08 am
I always read up on your threads and was following the nationals online!! Congratulations!! You looked great!!

Lowdown5
11-18-07, 10:39 am
Outstanding job in your prep and performnace Evan and congratulations on earning your pro card. Best wishes in the future!

matic-
11-18-07, 2:00 pm
Congrats Ox...You looked f'in awesome at the nationals! Good luck on your continued journey!

krazyassmexican
11-18-07, 7:29 pm
evan you are the man bro
congrats

you are the shizzle!

man i wanna go to CT and hive u a hug LOL

i cant believe this

seeing you win makes me feel like i am a pro now LOL

kyderz
11-18-07, 11:19 pm
Congrats Evan. Overall winner at the 25th anniversary of the Nationals:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r217/er1994/OxandHaney.jpg

Jesus, dudes..

Look at those fucking quads...

Well, the whole thing is fucking amazing, but the fucking muscles of the quads are just fucking impressive.

Fuck.

lycan_warlord
11-19-07, 8:22 am
I watched all of your "In The Trenches" and you were looking sick then with no carbs, I new you were going to take it.

CONGRATS OX!!!!!

GO ANIMAL!!!!!!!!!

and btw, here is the MD link to all of the competition photos.
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/browse/index.php?mode=contest&eventcode=1213


-lycan

Universal Rep
11-19-07, 9:12 am
Looks like we got another IFBB pro dishing out advice for all of us. How cool is that? Congrats Evan.

YOUNG_BB
11-19-07, 3:13 pm
GREAT WIN EVAN
CONGRATS ON UR WIN
NEWEST IFBB PRO...


man that sounds amazing

Wasteland
11-19-07, 3:16 pm
Great accomplishment. Nothing but respect.

naturalguy
11-19-07, 7:17 pm
Ox is on No Bull Radio right now (if you miss it you can dowload the replay):

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=137

lycan_warlord
11-19-07, 7:34 pm
got it on right now!!! thank you sir!!!

go OX!!!!

-lycan

yazzfloot
11-19-07, 7:50 pm
Congrats to Evan 'Ox' Centopani! ...you the man, no doubt.

lycan_warlord
11-19-07, 7:53 pm
They [the muscle mob] suggested evan coming into his next contest @ 270.....can you imagine that....

good lord almighty!!!

Evan said some kid was crying everytime he passed him by!!! funny...

-lycan

yazzfloot
11-19-07, 8:01 pm
They [the muscle mob] suggested evan coming into his next contest @ 270.....can you imagine that....

good lord almighty!!!

Evan said some kid was crying everytime he passed him by!!! funny...

-lycan

....jeezum...

bharatoza
11-19-07, 11:35 pm
Congratulations!

Ox
11-23-07, 2:34 pm
I finally got my ass on the internet after being gone for the past week (I finally got to see some pics of what I looked like on stage) and I wanted to thank all of you guys. Your support and passion is tremendous and I love it. I can't even begin to tell you guys how much it all means to me. Just know that I am honored to be here amongst all of you not only to offer my help in any way I can, but to learn from all of you as well. I love you guys. Thank you for everything.

krazyassmexican
11-23-07, 3:10 pm
I finally got my ass on the internet after being gone for the past week (I finally got to see some pics of what I looked like on stage) and I wanted to thank all of you guys. Your support and passion is tremendous and I love it. I can't even begin to tell you guys how much it all means to me. Just know that I am honored to be here amongst all of you not only to offer my help in any way I can, but to learn from all of you as well. I love you guys. Thank you for everything.

we love you too evan
or should i say

future mr olympia! =)

kyderz
11-23-07, 10:08 pm
I finally got my ass on the internet after being gone for the past week (I finally got to see some pics of what I looked like on stage) and I wanted to thank all of you guys. Your support and passion is tremendous and I love it. I can't even begin to tell you guys how much it all means to me. Just know that I am honored to be here amongst all of you not only to offer my help in any way I can, but to learn from all of you as well. I love you guys. Thank you for everything.

So much respect to you, bro. We're all so proud to see what you've done, and we're more than honored to have you here.

Now, down to the nitty gritty: I am ~225 lbs. I am also 6'2". No point being 225lbs at 74 inches, when I can be 280 or 290 at 74 inches, correct?

Anyway, input from anyone is pretty wanted right now.

BCent
11-24-07, 2:29 am
Congrats OX looked good up there

ChandlerXJ
11-25-07, 5:18 pm
Ev - I know you can relate to this question... no doubt.

I got a 6 month co-op coming up in March, and in June I'll be starting the diet down for the 2008 NPC Rhode Island Naturals. I am continuing my work as an opportunity analyst for a corporation - and as you know, corporate world = waking up at the ass crack of dawn.

I'm planning on hitting a quick 20-30 minute cardio session on my treadmill right when I wake up, however, I have to leave my house at 6. 6 meals a day, every 2.5 hours - I'll be out of food by 6:30, right when I'm supposed to start training.

What do you suggest? Eat every 3 hours? 3.5 with BCAA's and liver tabs in between? Is it possible to split into 7 meals? I really don't know how to approach this because the diet is so restrictive.

Full time jobs suck - but I gotta do what I gotta do...

Thanks Evan.

mex.i.can
11-26-07, 10:17 am
Ev - I know you can relate to this question... no doubt.

I got a 6 month co-op coming up in March, and in June I'll be starting the diet down for the 2008 NPC Rhode Island Naturals. I am continuing my work as an opportunity analyst for a corporation - and as you know, corporate world = waking up at the ass crack of dawn.

I'm planning on hitting a quick 20-30 minute cardio session on my treadmill right when I wake up, however, I have to leave my house at 6. 6 meals a day, every 2.5 hours - I'll be out of food by 6:30, right when I'm supposed to start training.

What do you suggest? Eat every 3 hours? 3.5 with BCAA's and liver tabs in between? Is it possible to split into 7 meals? I really don't know how to approach this because the diet is so restrictive.

Full time jobs suck - but I gotta do what I gotta do...

Thanks Evan.

hey chandler, i'm in the same boat as you. i wake up at 0500 monday, wednesday, and friday to workout since i don't have to be at work until 0800. tuesday and thursday i wake up at 0400 because i start work at 0700. i usually bump my meals to about 3 hours. did some research on keeping your metabolism up and just about all the websites say 2-3 hours between meals. here are a couple of sites that state it...

http://www.fitfaq.com/eat-6-meals.html
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/articles-submit/jesse-cannone/increase-metabolism.htm

evan should have more insight on this. i was just stating my personal experience.

Ox
11-26-07, 10:44 am
Ev - I know you can relate to this question... no doubt.

I got a 6 month co-op coming up in March, and in June I'll be starting the diet down for the 2008 NPC Rhode Island Naturals. I am continuing my work as an opportunity analyst for a corporation - and as you know, corporate world = waking up at the ass crack of dawn.

I'm planning on hitting a quick 20-30 minute cardio session on my treadmill right when I wake up, however, I have to leave my house at 6. 6 meals a day, every 2.5 hours - I'll be out of food by 6:30, right when I'm supposed to start training.

What do you suggest? Eat every 3 hours? 3.5 with BCAA's and liver tabs in between? Is it possible to split into 7 meals? I really don't know how to approach this because the diet is so restrictive.

Full time jobs suck - but I gotta do what I gotta do...

Thanks Evan.

Hey buddy. Don't worry about the hours/meals. eat every 3-3.5 hours. When I'm dieting, there are times when I eat every 2 hours and times when I eat every 4 hours/. Depends on how I feel/what is going on. Try not to think it out TOO much. Just hit the ground runnin'. When is the date of your show?

Pizzalamp
11-26-07, 10:52 am
hey ox
once again congrats
just wondering what did u eat for your post contest feast?

ChandlerXJ
11-26-07, 12:29 pm
Evan - thanks for the response man. I think if I am doing the job I'm supposed to do at work I shouldn't be thinking about food anyway haha...

The show is October 18th, 2008 at the Rhode Island Convention center.

The reason I am picking a show so far away is because I wanted to do a quick test diet, have a solid rebound with a few months of solid bulking, then enough time to shred down perfectly. Also, this is the first NPC TESTED show that isn't in the first half of the year, the test are FREE this year, and after this show, there is a OCB pro-qualifier show I can enter a few weeks after.

Picked up the December MD yesterday at the airport in Hartford... sick article man, you're going to the top.

Segansational
11-27-07, 12:00 pm
Hey Evan, this is a little late, but just wanted to congratulate you on your victory and your pro card.

Ox
11-27-07, 7:23 pm
hey ox
once again congrats
just wondering what did u eat for your post contest feast?

My flight got into HArtford, CT at 6:30 a.m. on Thanksgiving. I drove home, ate some eggs and rice, went to bed for 5 hours, woke up and had thanksgiving. All dark meat turkey and lots of skin! I love fat! Some sweet potato and cranberry and lots of pumpkin pie...oh so fuckin yummy!

Ox
11-27-07, 7:24 pm
Evan - thanks for the response man. I think if I am doing the job I'm supposed to do at work I shouldn't be thinking about food anyway haha...

The show is October 18th, 2008 at the Rhode Island Convention center.

The reason I am picking a show so far away is because I wanted to do a quick test diet, have a solid rebound with a few months of solid bulking, then enough time to shred down perfectly. Also, this is the first NPC TESTED show that isn't in the first half of the year, the test are FREE this year, and after this show, there is a OCB pro-qualifier show I can enter a few weeks after.

Picked up the December MD yesterday at the airport in Hartford... sick article man, you're going to the top.

Sounds like a plan. Are you gonna be around the CT area for the gathering in New Haven this weekend?

Ox
11-27-07, 7:24 pm
Hey Evan, this is a little late, but just wanted to congratulate you on your victory and your pro card.

Never too late bro! Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

cagedmonster
11-27-07, 8:56 pm
ox, once again congrats man, i got a quick question for you, what do you think of ground turkey meat, while on the keto?

Ox
11-27-07, 9:31 pm
ox, once again congrats man, i got a quick question for you, what do you think of ground turkey meat, while on the keto?

Ground turkey meat is fine but unless your using it as a leaner option and are getting the stuff that is 97-99% lean you may as well use lean ground beef. The only benefit it offers is you can get it really lean if that is what you want. Me, personally, I feel beef is a better protein source and tastes better.

Arbalest
11-27-07, 9:47 pm
Ox, first off I just want to say congrats again!

I'm doing the No-Carb diet right now, as I'm cutting for a contest in April. I used to be a fat@$$ too, and absolute minimum carbs is what works for me as well.

Question: How do you carb up for your show? I have soo many people giving me contradicting advice.

Of course, I'm going to kind of figure it out how my body responds and when I'll look best, but a general idea of what you do would give me a better starting place I think.


~Arbalest

krazyassmexican
11-28-07, 9:03 am
YO ox
i tried to adjust my diet using the chart you gave us once

and i came up with this:

191lbs
protein 229.5 grams
fat 102 grams
1836 calories

not countin carbs

i am guessin if i keep eatin the 24grams of carbs i was eatin
then my calorie intake will be 1932calories a day

my actual calorie intake is 1963 calories
so it makes no difference

did i do it right? LOL

ChandlerXJ
11-28-07, 11:39 am
Ev - the train from Philly to New Haven is $50 bucks or more each way - if I had my Jeep I'd drive up. It would be cheaper for me to fly back to Massachusetts and drive down honestly - but too short notice to book flights. My girlfriend wants to skip her championship swimming meet to drive me and adam there, but no way will I let that happen haha.

I'll be at the NJ gathering the week after, then I'll be back in Massachusetts after that.

I live near Enfield, CT actually, so I'm thinking about hitting up your Gold's sometime to check it out. It would be a worthwhile trip and something to do over the Holiday break.

You should start advocating young bodybuilders like Dave does for you man - I mean, no ones on the same level as you that would even approach you for help, you know. You could make some good money man.

niladmirari88
11-28-07, 12:13 pm
After months on the Keto diet and you finish your show, can you change your body to go back to using carbs for energy? I guess what I'm asking is am I going to have to eat high fat in the offseason and the rest of my life for energy? I'm going to start cutting weight again for a show and have been seriously considering this diet. Thanks for any and all information.

gratz on the pro card

-Nil

krazyassmexican
11-28-07, 12:15 pm
After months on the Keto diet and you finish your show, can you change your body to go back to using carbs for energy? I guess what I'm asking is am I going to have to eat high fat in the offseason and the rest of my life for energy? I'm going to start cutting weight again for a show and have been seriously considering this diet. Thanks for any and all information.

gratz on the pro card

-Nil

you go back to carbs in the offseason bro
you cant be ketogenic all year around
i asked the same question to ox before i started dieting and yes you need carbs back
i am pretty sure he will explain us later how to re introduce them in the diet

Mr. Thursday Night
11-28-07, 12:26 pm
Hey, Ox, I was a fat bastard too, especially when I was in high school (250 lbs. at 17). Needless to say, I didn't get laid at all.


Good work, young man! I'll be pulling for you!

kyderz
11-28-07, 2:18 pm
Hey, Ox, I was a fat bastard too, especially when I was in high school (250 lbs. at 17). Needless to say, I didn't get laid at all.


Good work, young man! I'll be pulling for you!

I actually got up to 250 at age 16 over summer.

The following school year, I came back, and the football coaches asked what I was on, and why I stopped playing football. LOL

Funny thing, that's when I started taking Pak, flex, and some whey.

Lazy bastards always asking what you're "on".

Renji007
11-28-07, 4:55 pm
Ox. Thank you for the Dietary inspiration. I feel way better on Keto than I have in a long time ^^ that along with animal cuts is making me look RIPPED. Also I've gained alot of size on this too...And while on a cut no less.

Though can I ask what your diet is like. Because I heard that you are supposed to have SOME carbs at least every two to three weeks. But I'm not sure. Any info would be a great help.

ChandlerXJ
11-28-07, 6:31 pm
Ox. Thank you for the Dietary inspiration. I feel way better on Keto than I have in a long time ^^ that along with animal cuts is making me look RIPPED. Also I've gained alot of size on this too...And while on a cut no less.

Though can I ask what your diet is like. Because I heard that you are supposed to have SOME carbs at least every two to three weeks. But I'm not sure. Any info would be a great help.

ask krazyassmexican, he can help you out renjii

krazyassmexican
11-29-07, 9:19 pm
yo evan what do you think about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv8cFtX3qmk

i think he's freaking awesome

Lowdown5
11-29-07, 9:50 pm
yo evan what do you think about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv8cFtX3qmk

i think he's freaking awesome


Out-fuckin-standing!!

Elite
11-29-07, 10:06 pm
yo evan what do you think about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv8cFtX3qmk

i think he's freaking awesome

Made the fluff at the back of my kneck stand up. Will be watching that a few times before i go bed!

Ox
11-29-07, 11:45 pm
YO ox
i tried to adjust my diet using the chart you gave us once

and i came up with this:

191lbs
protein 229.5 grams
fat 102 grams
1836 calories

not countin carbs

i am guessin if i keep eatin the 24grams of carbs i was eatin
then my calorie intake will be 1932calories a day

my actual calorie intake is 1963 calories
so it makes no difference

did i do it right? LOL


I'm confused.

Ox
11-29-07, 11:47 pm
Ev - the train from Philly to New Haven is $50 bucks or more each way - if I had my Jeep I'd drive up. It would be cheaper for me to fly back to Massachusetts and drive down honestly - but too short notice to book flights. My girlfriend wants to skip her championship swimming meet to drive me and adam there, but no way will I let that happen haha.

I'll be at the NJ gathering the week after, then I'll be back in Massachusetts after that.

I live near Enfield, CT actually, so I'm thinking about hitting up your Gold's sometime to check it out. It would be a worthwhile trip and something to do over the Holiday break.

You should start advocating young bodybuilders like Dave does for you man - I mean, no ones on the same level as you that would even approach you for help, you know. You could make some good money man.

That's cool... I didn't realize you were so close. Definitely come down some time. You'll love this gym. As for the consulting, I've thought about it. Honestly, I feel bad charging people for the advice!

Ox
11-29-07, 11:49 pm
After months on the Keto diet and you finish your show, can you change your body to go back to using carbs for energy? I guess what I'm asking is am I going to have to eat high fat in the offseason and the rest of my life for energy? I'm going to start cutting weight again for a show and have been seriously considering this diet. Thanks for any and all information.

gratz on the pro card

-Nil

No problem buddy. As for the carbs, once you start adding them back in your body snaps right out of ketosis because carbs are the preferred source of energy for your body. If you body could pick between fats or carbs it will go for the carbs. It just takes a few days for your digestive system to get used to em again and you fart your brains out! But after that it's all good.

Ox
11-29-07, 11:50 pm
Hey, Ox, I was a fat bastard too, especially when I was in high school (250 lbs. at 17). Needless to say, I didn't get laid at all.


Good work, young man! I'll be pulling for you!

Thanks man.

Ox
11-29-07, 11:52 pm
Ox. Thank you for the Dietary inspiration. I feel way better on Keto than I have in a long time ^^ that along with animal cuts is making me look RIPPED. Also I've gained alot of size on this too...And while on a cut no less.

Though can I ask what your diet is like. Because I heard that you are supposed to have SOME carbs at least every two to three weeks. But I'm not sure. Any info would be a great help.

Glad you're having success with the diet. Once you've been in ketosis for 2 weeks you should introduce a cheat meal once per week where you eat whatever you want including a good amount of carbs. This serves to shock the body and spark the metabolism.

Ox
11-29-07, 11:55 pm
yo evan what do you think about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv8cFtX3qmk

i think he's freaking awesome


Out-fuckin-standing!!

Thanks guys. Posing and putting together routines has always been the part I liked least about competing. I'll train, starve myself, do cardio ect but when it comes to posing and routines, I hate that shit! This year however, I got into it a little and learned to have some fun with it. If you approach stuff you dislike with some enthusiasm it isn't so bad...I actually had fun with it and was pretty pleased with it!

Toni69
11-30-07, 2:50 am
Hello there! Of course, congrats again on your win...so proud of you..you deserved it and earned it...hope your enjoying it!

Now...I dont think you have been asked this question as of yet and DONT LAUGH AT ME!

I have been doing a modified version of your diet..pretty much the same for my show prep since Nov 1...going very, very well. I have to say as a previous carb cycler...this keto thing is working really well for me. I so far am maintaining all my muscle, building if anything! My strength and energy levels are through the roof and Im gettng amazing pumps every wo..so..kudos to you for this diet....so far! :)

Now...last night I was making dinner for my kid and he wanted pickles with it. You know, those big ol crunchy claussens. I couldnt help but stare at the jar and wonder if I could have one!!! Im serious..they have 1g carbs and they have the sodium I need..so how bad can they be?

Can I have a dam pickle or what? LOL

kyderz
11-30-07, 3:59 am
Hello there! Of course, congrats again on your win...so proud of you..you deserved it and earned it...hope your enjoying it!

Now...I dont think you have been asked this question as of yet and DONT LAUGH AT ME!

I have been doing a modified version of your diet..pretty much the same for my show prep since Nov 1...going very, very well. I have to say as a previous carb cycler...this keto thing is working really well for me. I so far am maintaining all my muscle, building if anything! My strength and energy levels are through the roof and Im gettng amazing pumps every wo..so..kudos to you for this diet....so far! :)

Now...last night I was making dinner for my kid and he wanted pickles with it. You know, those big ol crunchy claussens. I couldnt help but stare at the jar and wonder if I could have one!!! Im serious..they have 1g carbs and they have the sodium I need..so how bad can they be?

Can I have a dam pickle or what? LOL

I'm not Ox, but I'd guess yes..

It is a green veggie, and the ONE carb [LOL!] it has can't be too bad.

If anything, I'd see it as beneficial because it wouldn't leave you hungry.

Just a thought.

While I'm posting, I must say..

NEVER DO UNDERHAND PULLUPS / CHINS WITH A WIDE GRIP!

Fuck, am I feeling this now..

Didn't notice I was doing it during the back-workout!

Jeez!

kyderz
11-30-07, 4:01 am
Also Toni...you may look forward to this..

Natty peanut butter on a pickle.

You might think "What the fuck does this kid think?".

Try it.

Peanut butter atop a pickle is fucking amazing!

Toni69
11-30-07, 4:18 am
Also Toni...you may look forward to this..

Natty peanut butter on a pickle.

You might think "What the fuck does this kid think?".

Try it.

Peanut butter atop a pickle is fucking amazing!

I will put natty pb on anything! LOL

I see what your saying but I just wanna make sure its cool with Ox. Thank you for posting a reply to me though...you didnt laugh did you? LOL

kyderz
11-30-07, 4:21 am
I will put natty pb on anything! LOL

I see what your saying but I just wanna make sure its cool with Ox. Thank you for posting a reply to me though...you didnt laugh did you? LOL

Noooo...no..

not at all...

;]

Anyhow, if it IS cool with 50 Cent-opani, try it and tell me what you think.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 8:29 am
I'm confused.

last time my diet got adjusted
it got adjusted by you

it came out like this
meal1:10 egg whites and pak
meal2:specialized protein for lean mass, egg pro ultra, fish oil, natty pb, 1/2 serving of olive oil bcaa2000
meal3: 5oz of chicken, 2cups of greens, 1serving of olive oil uniliver
meal4:same as meal 2 without fish oil
meal5:5oz of salmon, 2cups of greens, 1 serving of olive oil and uniliver
meal6: same as meal 4


the deal is that i am 191lbs rite now
and i cant kick up my cardio
the most that i could do (bustin my ass and not taking rest)
is 1 hour daily
around 90minutes saturday
and probably 2 hours sunday

but i know i need rest too

so i was thinking of readjustin the diet again

since you are bussy i tried to do it myself
but came out with like a 20 calorie difference
and more fat than i am eating rite now

so i am guessin i did it wrong
could you help?

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 8:30 am
I will put natty pb on anything! LOL

I see what your saying but I just wanna make sure its cool with Ox. Thank you for posting a reply to me though...you didnt laugh did you? LOL

remember you have to see the fiber on pickles baby birl LOL

niladmirari88
11-30-07, 9:26 am
It's cliche at this point but i'm amazed at your willingness to help us out here at the forum even on small questions. Grazie.

Toni69
11-30-07, 10:38 am
remember you have to see the fiber on pickles baby birl LOL

pickles dont have fiber..just 1g carb per 1/2 med size pickle, 0 fat and 0 protein..330mg sodium..which is fine for now..I would think.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 10:40 am
pickles dont have fiber..just 1g carb per 1/2 med size pickle, 0 fat and 0 protein..330mg sodium..which is fine for now..I would think.

who knows in my opinion if you are under 30grams of carbs you are ok (i am probably wrong)

Ox
11-30-07, 11:55 am
Hello there! Of course, congrats again on your win...so proud of you..you deserved it and earned it...hope your enjoying it!

Now...I dont think you have been asked this question as of yet and DONT LAUGH AT ME!

I have been doing a modified version of your diet..pretty much the same for my show prep since Nov 1...going very, very well. I have to say as a previous carb cycler...this keto thing is working really well for me. I so far am maintaining all my muscle, building if anything! My strength and energy levels are through the roof and Im gettng amazing pumps every wo..so..kudos to you for this diet....so far! :)

Now...last night I was making dinner for my kid and he wanted pickles with it. You know, those big ol crunchy claussens. I couldnt help but stare at the jar and wonder if I could have one!!! Im serious..they have 1g carbs and they have the sodium I need..so how bad can they be?


Can I have a dam pickle or what? LOL

One won't kill you just don't overdo it.

Ox
11-30-07, 11:56 am
Also Toni...you may look forward to this..

Natty peanut butter on a pickle.

You might think "What the fuck does this kid think?".

Try it.

Peanut butter atop a pickle is fucking amazing!

C'mon bro...that's nasty!

Ox
11-30-07, 11:58 am
last time my diet got adjusted
it got adjusted by you

it came out like this
meal1:10 egg whites and pak
meal2:specialized protein for lean mass, egg pro ultra, fish oil, natty pb, 1/2 serving of olive oil bcaa2000
meal3: 5oz of chicken, 2cups of greens, 1serving of olive oil uniliver
meal4:same as meal 2 without fish oil
meal5:5oz of salmon, 2cups of greens, 1 serving of olive oil and uniliver
meal6: same as meal 4


the deal is that i am 191lbs rite now
and i cant kick up my cardio
the most that i could do (bustin my ass and not taking rest)
is 1 hour daily
around 90minutes saturday
and probably 2 hours sunday

but i know i need rest too

so i was thinking of readjustin the diet again

since you are bussy i tried to do it myself
but came out with like a 20 calorie difference
and more fat than i am eating rite now

so i am guessin i did it wrong
could you help?

How many weeks have u been dieting for? If it's been more than 15 it's time to bulk. Your gonna kill your metabolism if u don't.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 12:07 pm
How many weeks have u been dieting for? If it's been more than 15 it's time to bulk. Your gonna kill your metabolism if u don't.

this is my 16 week
i was thinkin to bulk till my gut dissapears
should i bulk?
this is how this shit has been going down

this is how i started:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7617/l51a9ad508893b24687b27alg5.jpg

this is the newest pic i got
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7466/l01dbae7589c776aa8ddc6cac7.jpg


so should i just stop and bulk up?
what weight do you recomend me to aim for?

what changes should i make to my diet?
on protein and fats?
i know i gotta add carbs
how should i add them?
can i change one of the shakes for a whole food meal?
maybe red meat or turkey

Extreme
11-30-07, 12:15 pm
Hey Ox,

I know you're getting ready to stun and shock the world as the next IFBB Pro, and I can't wait to see the results. But, when things get back to semi-normal I have a question for ya. I'm coming off of a bulk, finishing a cycle of TEST and Stak 2 and am looking to start a cut using the keto diet. I'm sitting at a weight of 268 and am not sure about body fat percentage, but I know it's way up there. I've been using the #4 workout routine found in the AOM, which incorporates high reps, or repping to failure in all sets, and have seen some great results in my overall stamina and strength. My question is this: Do you recommend certain exercises, sets, reps, ect., when cutting or do I continue on lifting as I normally would? I usually change things up every two to three weeks, but just wanted to know if you had in suggestions, or do's and don't's when lifting on this diet. And I apalogize if this has been brought up on this thread already, but I scoped it out and found a lot of info on the diet, but not much on lifting routines while on this diet. I know listening to my body is key, I'm just looking for a base to start out with. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Much Respect.

Hey Ox,

I posted this right before your show, don't know if maybe it got overlooked, but I was hoping you could shed some light on it for me. I'm getting all of my final prep ready for my cut, it's go time for this Animal.

ChandlerXJ
11-30-07, 1:18 pm
I'll be the first member of Team Centopani, taking amatures under your wing haha.

You already hooked us up with the diet plan, thats worth its weight in gold man.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 1:20 pm
I'll be the first member of Team Centopani, taking amatures under your wing haha.

You already hooked us up with the diet plan, thats worth its weight in gold man.

chill chill!
i am mr william evan dave mendiola centopani palumbo Jr. LOL

fuck bro if everything goes right i make sure i put chicago on the map
watch npc
i dont care what i gotta do i will do it to wear posing trunks and pose to the smooth operator by paul wall LOL

ChandlerXJ
11-30-07, 1:31 pm
krazy, you're a riot dude. you're insane and you're honestly working your ass off to the point where you have the most popular thread on here because everyone wants to see your damn abs man. It's gonna happen.

krazyassmexican
11-30-07, 1:35 pm
krazy, you're a riot dude. you're insane and you're honestly working your ass off to the point where you have the most popular thread on here because everyone wants to see your damn abs man. It's gonna happen.

get to my journey rite now man! LOL

kyderz
11-30-07, 4:07 pm
C'mon bro...that's nasty!

Ox..you ever tried it?

I mean, it definately is not normal, but just give it a shot.

If you don't like it, I'll go shoot myself in the leg.

If you do, however..

I won't.

Point is, it could be a healthy snack that you end up eating for the rest of your life.

Pizzalamp
12-02-07, 8:44 pm
Evan
it was really cool to finally meet u
your gym was great
im hoping to come up there a few times a month to train shoulders calves-i love that calf raise u got there by the donkey calf
very motivating to see u train
Grant

humanforklift
12-03-07, 12:02 pm
Hey Evan, just wondering what you put on your fish/chicken/steak/eggs during dieting. Is it always just Mrs. Dash? Also, during a bulk, what condiments do you prefer?

krazyassmexican
12-03-07, 12:03 pm
Hey Evan, just wondering what you put on your fish/chicken/steak/eggs during dieting. Is it always just Mrs. Dash? Also, during a bulk, what condiments do you prefer?

if you are going to diet on zero carbs

sodium is ok

bigdog
12-04-07, 4:39 pm
hey ox, what would the approiate adjustments to your keto diet would i need? i am currently 350lbs, 33 years old, and 6'6" tall. i have been doing the diet you posted, and feel full all day, but it is for a 270 lbs man. should i keep on going like i am, or should i add something? thanks, brian

Ox
12-04-07, 10:39 pm
hey ox, what would the approiate adjustments to your keto diet would i need? i am currently 350lbs, 33 years old, and 6'6" tall. i have been doing the diet you posted, and feel full all day, but it is for a 270 lbs man. should i keep on going like i am, or should i add something? thanks, brian

You don't need me to recalculate it. Anyone can figure it out by basing it off the idea that they need 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. From there you just do a 1:1:1 caloire ratio. That will give you the g of carbs and fats you need. Or if you're pre-contest, just the grams of fats. Just keep in mind that fat has 9 calories per gram. But if you weigh 350 lbs you only use the lbs of lean mass you have. The claculations for a 270 guy probably isn't a bad place to start, you may even have to trim the calories down a little bit. Depends on your bodyfat %.

Ox
12-04-07, 10:40 pm
Ox..you ever tried it?

I mean, it definately is not normal, but just give it a shot.

If you don't like it, I'll go shoot myself in the leg.

If you do, however..

I won't.

Point is, it could be a healthy snack that you end up eating for the rest of your life.

Bad news bro...I tried it...hated it...I'm comin over to shoot you in the leg.

MDur8
12-04-07, 10:42 pm
Bad news bro...I tried it...hated it...I'm comin over to shoot you in the leg.

LOL...Yeah it didnt sound too good

Ox
12-04-07, 10:42 pm
Evan
it was really cool to finally meet u
your gym was great
im hoping to come up there a few times a month to train shoulders calves-i love that calf raise u got there by the donkey calf
very motivating to see u train
Grant

I'm really glad you were able to make it...and I'm happy to hear you liked the gym. That donkey calf raise is bad ass right? Hopefully next time you'll be able to come out to eat with us. Thanks again for comin bro, I'm glad you had a good time.

Ox
12-04-07, 10:45 pm
Hey Evan, just wondering what you put on your fish/chicken/steak/eggs during dieting. Is it always just Mrs. Dash? Also, during a bulk, what condiments do you prefer?

I really have a bland sense of taste. I like using mac nut oil and a little salt. It goes good on anything. Maybe a little black pepper. You could use Mrs. Dash if you want and really any herbs/spices and salt if you want. You should really make it a point TO salt your food if there is no sodium in it. Sodium is important. You don't wanna overdo it but never eliminate it. I love ketchup and barbecue sauce but only use them offseason.

EXUB
12-04-07, 10:53 pm
sup evan? are you ever coming down to miami to do another contest etc etc? would love to get a workout in with ya man. also when as you were working out and getting big what were your friends around you saying? did they ever try to stop you?

ChandlerXJ
12-05-07, 1:00 am
Ev - I saw your post on MD about what we'd like to see in a DVD that no one else has.

How about being a bodybuilder with a full time job, or school or something. It would be motivating for you to offer us tips and tricks to get through life while balancing a job or school - this would be REAL cool. Plus, your very good at explaining everything during your videos - sometimes you just get a cool training DVD, but you never get an informative one. And with today's technology, you could make it so you can cut out your bull when we don't wanna hear it and you can have your soundtrack - that way its a training video with instructions/advice, then you can switch it so it's a bad ass motivational pre-workout supplement.

I'll be stopping into your Gold's over my break before I come back to Philly, can't wait to check it out man. You gotta make your way down here again sometime - body world was OLD SCHOOL, DIRTY, and that homeless bum is probably STILL there.

Anyway, I think you're creative enough to give the fans something that we don't have. A small percentage of us are lifestyle bodybuilders - the others amoung us have jobs, school, kids, other priorities. Also, skip paying the money to have it pressed, put it on Itunes man - when I was touring with my band 2 years ago, it would cost us more than we'd make a night to press CD's.

By the way... 12/25... see you in KETOSISVILLE. I'll keep ya' posted.

kyderz
12-05-07, 1:56 am
Bad news bro...I tried it...hated it...I'm comin over to shoot you in the leg.

Fuck.

:p

I can't believe you actually did it LOL.

I mean, yea I do it, but most people gag at the thought of it haha.

You're a savage.

By the way, I want to come out to train with you guys sometime.

If there's anything set up for summer, or even near Christmas, I'll look into buying a plane ticket, and coming to lift with you guys.

It'd be fucking sweet.

At least I got my last wheels session in.

>:0

Toni69
12-05-07, 3:11 am
No problem buddy. As for the carbs, once you start adding them back in your body snaps right out of ketosis because carbs are the preferred source of energy for your body. If you body could pick between fats or carbs it will go for the carbs. It just takes a few days for your digestive system to get used to em again and you fart your brains out! But after that it's all good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renji007
Ox. Thank you for the Dietary inspiration. I feel way better on Keto than I have in a long time ^^ that along with animal cuts is making me look RIPPED. Also I've gained alot of size on this too...And while on a cut no less.

Though can I ask what your diet is like. Because I heard that you are supposed to have SOME carbs at least every two to three weeks. But I'm not sure. Any info would be a great help.

Glad you're having success with the diet. Once you've been in ketosis for 2 weeks you should introduce a cheat meal once per week where you eat whatever you want including a good amount of carbs. This serves to shock the body and spark the metabolism.

MY QUESTION:
If your adding one cheat meal a week (after the 2-3 weeks of zero), wont this break that keto cycle? Im a little confused..sorry.

Ox
12-05-07, 9:30 am
sup evan? are you ever coming down to miami to do another contest etc etc? would love to get a workout in with ya man. also when as you were working out and getting big what were your friends around you saying? did they ever try to stop you?

I might be coming to Miami next month but it's only so I can catch a cruise to the carribean! This boy needs a vacation! Seriously though, I love Miami. I was actually thinkin of comin down mid to late summer with my girlfriend. In regard to bodybuilding, my friends just kind of saw my progression and always supported me. I think they always saw it as part of who I am and what I do. They would bust my balls about not goin out or not drinkin' etc but they understood me and my goals and they respected it. even if they wanted to stop me I think my friends no me well enough to know I have a one track mind.

Ox
12-05-07, 9:34 am
Ev - I saw your post on MD about what we'd like to see in a DVD that no one else has.

How about being a bodybuilder with a full time job, or school or something. It would be motivating for you to offer us tips and tricks to get through life while balancing a job or school - this would be REAL cool. Plus, your very good at explaining everything during your videos - sometimes you just get a cool training DVD, but you never get an informative one. And with today's technology, you could make it so you can cut out your bull when we don't wanna hear it and you can have your soundtrack - that way its a training video with instructions/advice, then you can switch it so it's a bad ass motivational pre-workout supplement.

I'll be stopping into your Gold's over my break before I come back to Philly, can't wait to check it out man. You gotta make your way down here again sometime - body world was OLD SCHOOL, DIRTY, and that homeless bum is probably STILL there.

Anyway, I think you're creative enough to give the fans something that we don't have. A small percentage of us are lifestyle bodybuilders - the others amoung us have jobs, school, kids, other priorities. Also, skip paying the money to have it pressed, put it on Itunes man - when I was touring with my band 2 years ago, it would cost us more than we'd make a night to press CD's.

By the way... 12/25... see you in KETOSISVILLE. I'll keep ya' posted.


I agree with you bro...I like the idea of having an informative dvd. I think that most dvds lack information especially in regard to nutrition. And I also agre that personality and being able to explain things well is so key.I tunes huh? Cool idea. Hahahaha...the Body World Bum...he's definitely still layin' there mumbling shit. You're satrting dieitng on Christmas?! That's pretty sick...you're a ballsy man.

Ox
12-05-07, 9:36 am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renji007
Ox. Thank you for the Dietary inspiration. I feel way better on Keto than I have in a long time ^^ that along with animal cuts is making me look RIPPED. Also I've gained alot of size on this too...And while on a cut no less.

Though can I ask what your diet is like. Because I heard that you are supposed to have SOME carbs at least every two to three weeks. But I'm not sure. Any info would be a great help.

Glad you're having success with the diet. Once you've been in ketosis for 2 weeks you should introduce a cheat meal once per week where you eat whatever you want including a good amount of carbs. This serves to shock the body and spark the metabolism.

MY QUESTION:
If your adding one cheat meal a week (after the 2-3 weeks of zero), wont this break that keto cycle? Im a little confused..sorry.


One meal won't be enough top screw it up...all you'll do is store those carbs as glycogen and you'll stimulate your metabolism at the same time. A full day of carbs on the other hand would screw things up.

mex.i.can
12-05-07, 9:37 am
Ev - I saw your post on MD about what we'd like to see in a DVD that no one else has.

How about being a bodybuilder with a full time job, or school or something.

ronnie coleman already did this in his movie "the unbelievable". they would show him during his full-time job as a cop on the arlington police department in texas. if you haven't seen it, check it out. if i remember correctly, the movie was made on his quest for his 3rd mr. olympia title.

EXUB
12-05-07, 10:42 am
I might be coming to Miami next month but it's only so I can catch a cruise to the carribean! This boy needs a vacation! Seriously though, I love Miami. I was actually thinkin of comin down mid to late summer with my girlfriend. In regard to bodybuilding, my friends just kind of saw my progression and always supported me. I think they always saw it as part of who I am and what I do. They would bust my balls about not goin out or not drinkin' etc but they understood me and my goals and they respected it. even if they wanted to stop me I think my friends no me well enough to know I have a one track mind.

Well, if you're taking a cruise you will most likely be staying on the beach. If you decide to train or something I know of a Gold's on the beach. Let me know if you change your mind man.

Toni69
12-05-07, 11:47 am
Hey you!

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to answer my questions....:)

krazyassmexican
12-05-07, 11:48 am
Hey you!

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to answer my questions....:)

x2
we just flood evan with questions and never think about how annoyin we get LOL
or how bussy he can be
without evan and my family i wouldnt be where i am right now

Lowdown5
12-05-07, 11:53 am
x2
we just flood evan with questions and never think about how annoyin we get LOL
or how bussy he can be
without evan and my family i wouldnt be where i am right now


Straight truth, thank you Evan. You and all the Pros here are such a great asset to us and so kind to help. We all appreciate all the time you invest in helping us be better in the sport. Much respect my friend!

Segansational
12-05-07, 12:49 pm
Ev - I saw your post on MD about what we'd like to see in a DVD that no one else has.

How about being a bodybuilder with a full time job, or school or something. It would be motivating for you to offer us tips and tricks to get through life while balancing a job or school - this would be REAL cool.

I like that idea a lot. I always wonder what guys in this industry do to pay the bills.


ronnie coleman already did this in his movie "the unbelievable". they would show him during his full-time job as a cop on the arlington police department in texas. if you haven't seen it, check it out. if i remember correctly, the movie was made on his quest for his 3rd mr. olympia title.

I'll have to check that out.

IronWilson
12-06-07, 1:44 pm
Ox,
I don't usually comment on the articles on this site, there are a lot of good ones. But your latest one is just plain kick ass. It's one of the best and most inspiring I've ever read. Its the same reason I like bodybuilding, I never played sports in high school because I didn't like the whole team and coach thing. You just reminded me how much I love bodybuilding and why I do.

PECK88
12-06-07, 2:11 pm
Hey OX, i have a couple of questions for ya, im getting ready to start my joourney comin up this january, and i have almost completed everything just a coouple of loose ends im woundering if you could help me, i know to take in 1.5 g of protien per pound and all that good stuff. but i need some opinions on some fast digesting carbs, and slow digesting carbs. i know of a couple for each but i think i may need more variety. and also, what would you perfer to use for the amino acids for after workouts? your help will be appreciated, thanks brother

DaveK
12-06-07, 10:18 pm
Ox - many congrats on your climb to the summit. I can't even beging to imagine what it must feel like to be the newly crowned National Champion and even better yet - A PROFESSIONAL! I just read your post and I can say you nailed it and can truely speak for all of us. You are what this sport and company are all about.

Question - In response to your reply to the Nitro question regarding grape juice; I currently use Storm, Shock and BCAA Stack with one scoop of completly hydrolyzed caseinate pre WO. I drink 1/2 on my way to the gym and the other 1/2 during my workout. Post WO is 3 scoops of Torrent (love it), BCAA Stack and 2 scoops of the hydrolyzed caseinate mixed in 20 oz of Gatorade. Some research I read seems to indicate that the HC is the fastest absorbing protein (even more so than hydrolyzed whey) and the brand I bought says that it is manufactured with the smallest peptied molecules. Should I leave the HC out of the Torrent and just take that by itself and then take the HC 30 - 45 min later? Ok to leave the BCAA Stack?

Thanks, I'm humbled to be asking a Nat Champ and Pro and again congrats!!!


I take mine (I use 3 packets PWO) with 3 scoops of torrent. The idea is to take the aminos with a glycemic carbohydrate so that you spike your insulin. Once your insulin is spiked (since insulin is a storage hormane and very anabolic) the aminos get shuttled or driven into the muscle cells where they are needed. It's very effective especially since the aminos in Nitro don't get cannibalized by the liver and enter the bloodstream in no time. So to answer your question, do not use water. While grape juice is ok, you could use other juice or gatorade. Torrent works excellent because of the waxy maize starch pretty much bypasses the stomach (because of it's high molecular weight)and hits you almost instantly. Plus there's glucose in the formulation and you can;t get more glycemic than glucose. More glycemic = better insulin spike = aminos and glycogen get to the muscles more efficiently = better recuperation + anabolism. Just make sure nyou don; take it with a proetin shake because that will screw up it's ability to bypass the liver etc. Wait about a half hour or 45 min to hit your protein shake. Oh I almost forgot, I hit a dose of OKG along with my PWO supps. Ornithine Ketoglutarate is an amino that optimizes your body's ability to handle glucose. I don't know of any company that still produces it besides Universal. Ahhh. The hardcore basics that work. Tried and true. No bullshit.

simon85
12-06-07, 10:24 pm
Hey Evan!

I would like to know how much calories do you consume during a serious bulk. Are you fan of high calories intake 7k+? Do you eat fast foods a couple of times to maximize your gains?

Ox
12-07-07, 9:41 am
Hey OX, i have a couple of questions for ya, im getting ready to start my joourney comin up this january, and i have almost completed everything just a coouple of loose ends im woundering if you could help me, i know to take in 1.5 g of protien per pound and all that good stuff. but i need some opinions on some fast digesting carbs, and slow digesting carbs. i know of a couple for each but i think i may need more variety. and also, what would you perfer to use for the amino acids for after workouts? your help will be appreciated, thanks brother

Fast digesting: white rice, white potato, quick oats, rice cakes, grits, cream of rice

Slow digesting: brown rice, quinoa, old fashioned oats, sweet potato, wild rice, barley

For PWO aminos I would no doubt go with Animal Nitro. During the day and Pre-Workout, Universal's Animo tech is great.

krazyassmexican
12-07-07, 9:44 am
good that i got in this thread

so quick oats are fast diggesting
so since i dont want that
i guess i gotta stick to rolled oats right evan?

Ox
12-07-07, 9:45 am
Ox - many congrats on your climb to the summit. I can't even beging to imagine what it must feel like to be the newly crowned National Champion and even better yet - A PROFESSIONAL! I just read your post and I can say you nailed it and can truely speak for all of us. You are what this sport and company are all about.

Thanks man...that means a lot to me.

Question - In response to your reply to the Nitro question regarding grape juice; I currently use Storm, Shock and BCAA Stack with one scoop of completly hydrolyzed caseinate pre WO. I drink 1/2 on my way to the gym and the other 1/2 during my workout. Post WO is 3 scoops of Torrent (love it), BCAA Stack and 2 scoops of the hydrolyzed caseinate mixed in 20 oz of Gatorade. Some research I read seems to indicate that the HC is the fastest absorbing protein (even more so than hydrolyzed whey) and the brand I bought says that it is manufactured with the smallest peptied molecules. Should I leave the HC out of the Torrent and just take that by itself and then take the HC 30 - 45 min later? Ok to leave the BCAA Stack?

Thanks, I'm humbled to be asking a Nat Champ and Pro and again congrats!!!

I would not mix the Torrent woth anything unless you want to take it with other aminos like the bcaa stack, Nitro etc. Like you said, have the HC 30-40 min later. Let me ask you something...how does the HC taste? Most hydrolyzed proteins are fairly bitter. Also, why would you opt for Hydrolyzed Casein vs Hydrolyzed Milk Protein Isolate? I'm guessing that the HC is the fastest?

Ox
12-07-07, 9:48 am
good that i got in this thread

so quick oats are fast diggesting
so since i dont want that
i guess i gotta stick to rolled oats right evan?

Quick oats are like moosh...you may as well be eating a bowl of sugar because once they hit your stomach they will probably digest as quick as sugar. Stick to old fashioned oats bro. Don't forget, eating your carbs with proteins and fats will reduce enzyme efficiency and will slow the digestion and therefore the glycemic index of the carbs by default.

Ox
12-07-07, 9:51 am
Hey Evan!

I would like to know how much calories do you consume during a serious bulk. Are you fan of high calories intake 7k+? Do you eat fast foods a couple of times to maximize your gains?

I neevr count calories to tell you the truth but I know I don;t have to go above 5 or 6,000 to gain size. I don't think fast food helps anyone maximize anything except maybe the ability to look and feel like shit! I don't believe on fast for for ahyone for any reason. If you want a cheeseburger, take a pound of fresh ground meat and make yourself a big fat juicy burger in the privacy of your home. It will be better for maximizing gains and healthier for you than any of the shit you get at a fast food joint. Everything is better made at home...because it's made with love!

krazyassmexican
12-07-07, 9:51 am
Quick oats are like moosh...you may as well be eating a bowl of sugar because once they hit your stomach they will probably digest as quick as sugar. Stick to old fashioned oats bro. Don't forget, eating your carbs with proteins and fats will reduce enzyme efficiency and will slow the digestion and therefore the glycemic index of the carbs by default.

yeah bro rite now i am not eating carbs by themselves
what i do is i have rolled oats with my eggs, 2 of my shakes, brown rice with my lunch and a white potatoe post workout

on my last shake i am having natty pb

i am really being careful with my carbs
now that you mentioned the white potatoe is a simple carb
i may switch to sweet potatoes

Ox
12-07-07, 9:54 am
Ox,
I don't usually comment on the articles on this site, there are a lot of good ones. But your latest one is just plain kick ass. It's one of the best and most inspiring I've ever read. Its the same reason I like bodybuilding, I never played sports in high school because I didn't like the whole team and coach thing. You just reminded me how much I love bodybuilding and why I do.

Thanks buddy...I'm glad you like it. I was actually a little emotional when I was wirting it. I don't know why but it was makin me a little teary eyed. When I look at all the people I have behind me and how willing people are to help me out...I feel it.

DaveK
12-07-07, 1:18 pm
Thanks OX! I haven't had the HC by itself yet but that's always been the knock on it that Iv'e heard as well. That and the cost is pretty high because of manufacturing ($50 at a discount price for a pound!) I have lemon-lime now so I will give it a try tomorrow when I'm done training and let you know. According to the manufacturer they've figured out the taste problem and took the bitterness out. I can say that it does not seem to make my Torrent bitter. Just got on the HC 2 weeks ago so it's a little early to tell how its working. I'm felling real good right now though as I'm at the tail end of my rebound. All the research that I've read about HC says it's supposed to the the best for pre and post WO.

Just so I'm clear on a post you replied to about carbs. Did you indicate that you don't recommend eating carbs with proteins and fats or you do. Not sure if I read the thread right. My carb sources are pretty much the same year around, yams, oats and basmati rice. I cut the rice about 4 weeks out and only use it if I feel I need it. I always eat them with proteins and cycle both counts throughout the week. Thanks a lot!


I would not mix the Torrent woth anything unless you want to take it with other aminos like the bcaa stack, Nitro etc. Like you said, have the HC 30-40 min later. Let me ask you something...how does the HC taste? Most hydrolyzed proteins are fairly bitter. Also, why would you opt for Hydrolyzed Casein vs Hydrolyzed Milk Protein Isolate? I'm guessing that the HC is the fastest?

Rhetoric
12-07-07, 1:43 pm
Everything is better made at home...because it's made with love!
That reminds me of something I heard John Romano say on 'No Bull Radio'... something to the effect of "Healthy people buy ingredients to make their own meals from the grocery store, unhealthy people buy pre-made shit." I love that quote. So true.
And I know it's belated, but congrats on your dominant victory a few weeks back. Can't wait to see you tear it up in the pros.

PECK88
12-07-07, 4:16 pm
thanks alot OX, that really helped me put the final touches for my journey coming up. and i will be ordering the NITRO about 2 more days. once again thanks alot for everything brother

Ox
12-07-07, 8:48 pm
That reminds me of something I heard John Romano say on 'No Bull Radio'... something to the effect of "Healthy people buy ingredients to make their own meals from the grocery store, unhealthy people buy pre-made shit." I love that quote. So true.
And I know it's belated, but congrats on your dominant victory a few weeks back. Can't wait to see you tear it up in the pros.

John and I were having a discussion about nutrition and he said the same thing you just mentioned "I buy ingredients, other people buy ready made meals" It stuck with me too. So true. Thanks for the congrats bro.

Ox
12-07-07, 8:50 pm
Just so I'm clear on a post you replied to about carbs. Did you indicate that you don't recommend eating carbs with proteins and fats or you do. Not sure if I read the thread right. My carb sources are pretty much the same year around, yams, oats and basmati rice. I cut the rice about 4 weeks out and only use it if I feel I need it. I always eat them with proteins and cycle both counts throughout the week. Thanks a lot!

If you are eating carbs then yes, you should eat them with protein and fats to slow their digestion and lower their glycemic index. Unless of course you are doing them PWO and want the carbs to digest quickly and hit fat, you could have them by themselves.

ChandlerXJ
12-07-07, 8:54 pm
Evan I was thinking - While I'm cutting down, when would it be appropriate to decide to cut macros - for example, if I was eating for lean mass of 190, would it be safe to say that after 5 weeks, if I was stuck, eat for a lean mass of 180?

How did you get through sticking points ? I bet the most important thing is to not freak out first of all.

By the way, I really loved your article man, it hit close to home. I never felt part of a team, even when I was on them. I almost felt like I was only on the team because I was forced to sign up, and they all knew it - like they didn't want me there. But I hear you, this IS a team thing, it's the team that's behind you, pushing you, supporting you. That's the best team anyone could ask for and the only team I ever want to be on. Dude, you're gonna have a fucking GOOD life outside of body building with your mentality... you should be pumped haha.

DaveK
12-07-07, 9:54 pm
Outstanding! Thank You Ox!


If you are eating carbs then yes, you should eat them with protein and fats to slow their digestion and lower their glycemic index. Unless of course you are doing them PWO and want the carbs to digest quickly and hit fat, you could have them by themselves.

flasheffect
12-08-07, 12:15 am
Ox,
I know that a lot have said this already, but damn! it is awesome that you take the time to help those of us in the trenches fighting the iron every day.
Could you take a look at my "life" and let me know of any changes you could see that would benefit my progress?
I am 215 lbs. 12%bf 6 foot. 27yrs old.
I am 3 wks into a cutting cycle.
I am stacking:
animal pak
animal Nitro
animal Cuts
Fish Oil

i am on the Anabolic diet (zero carbs for 12 days then load for 1 )
my work-outs are as follows
monday: off
tuesday: Heavy Legs 5x 4-6 + 30 min cardio
wednesday: off
Thursday:off
Friday: Full body circuit 3x12-15+ 30 min cardio
Saturday: Heavy Chest/Back 5x4-6 + 30 min cardio
Sunday: Full body Circuit 3x12-15+ 30 min cardio

DaveK
12-09-07, 12:19 am
Yup...It sucks by itself. Oh well, it ain't champagne.


I would not mix the Torrent woth anything unless you want to take it with other aminos like the bcaa stack, Nitro etc. Like you said, have the HC 30-40 min later. Let me ask you something...how does the HC taste? Most hydrolyzed proteins are fairly bitter. Also, why would you opt for Hydrolyzed Casein vs Hydrolyzed Milk Protein Isolate? I'm guessing that the HC is the fastest?

krazyassmexican
12-09-07, 9:00 am
Ox,
I know that a lot have said this already, but damn! it is awesome that you take the time to help those of us in the trenches fighting the iron every day.
Could you take a look at my "life" and let me know of any changes you could see that would benefit my progress?
I am 215 lbs. 12%bf 6 foot. 27yrs old.
I am 3 wks into a cutting cycle.
I am stacking:
animal pak
animal Nitro
animal Cuts
Fish Oil

i am on the Anabolic diet (zero carbs for 12 days then load for 1 )
my work-outs are as follows
monday: off
tuesday: Heavy Legs 5x 4-6 + 30 min cardio
wednesday: off
Thursday:off
Friday: Full body circuit 3x12-15+ 30 min cardio
Saturday: Heavy Chest/Back 5x4-6 + 30 min cardio
Sunday: Full body Circuit 3x12-15+ 30 min cardio


i am not evan
but why not gettin serious and quit loading for 1 day?
day one day fucks everything up
and

you'll need 3 days to get back on track
so you are really bein 9 days in ketosis

flasheffect
12-09-07, 9:39 am
The best thing to do is to take the Pak with the whole food meal you have after the gym. Take the aminos and a carb drink if you do that, hen your protein shake and then when you're ready for whole food, have the Pak then.

If I am doing a Zero Carb diet, can i still take the Nitro with Torrent? It has carbs.

simpleguy
12-09-07, 9:45 am
If I am doing a Zero Carb diet, can i still take the Nitro with Torrent? It has carbs.

a zero carb diet means ZERO carbs, no torrent, just nitro

Ox
12-09-07, 12:02 pm
If I am doing a Zero Carb diet, can i still take the Nitro with Torrent? It has carbs.

No.

bobbymart
12-09-07, 3:06 pm
Hey OX how have you been ?I have another question for you seeing as how you have given me the best advice when it comes to diet... I'm bulking up right now and have managed to keep it very clean... but last week I was away form home visiting family and was too low on funds to go shoping for my own food and I ate pretty bad for about 7 days pizza mexican food, hamburgers, ext.... now I gain weight pretty easily and I gaind about 8lbs and I can really notice it in my mid section, now that does not bother me so much because I know when you bulk you will gain some bf, just not as much as I have. so to my question can I lose some fat from my mid section while bulking or am I going to have to wait until my cut in febuary I just don't wan't to sacrifice my muscle mass. i've been told to up the cardio and just start eating clean again both of which I have already done just wanted you'r opinion thanks.

NPCKnight
12-09-07, 3:25 pm
Evan,
Congratulations on everything you have accomplished. You and Wrath are my sole inspirations.
I have been bodybuilding for somewhere in between 2-3 yrs and competed and did very well this past summer. I have always been a follower of the anabolic window post workout. Spiking insulin with anywhere from 70 to 130g of dextrose and maltodextrin mix or Waxy Maize starch. I have always been under the impression that I then have somewhere between 3 and 4 hours to consume protein and carbs and no fat to really take advantage of the 'window' i created with the spike. Perhaps 2 meals in that window, possibly 2 meals and a shake.
Have you ever been a fan of this idea? I am debating continuing this protocol or bulking on the Palumbo type diet. Or perhaps a hybrid of both.
Is there a way you could see bulking(like you do in the offseason) while at the same time doing the PWO protocol I wrote above? Is there a way to morph the two ideas into one EFFECTIVE idea?

Dare_devil
12-10-07, 12:41 am
hey how r ya?? hows it goin hanh!!
listen i have been training for about 1 year but now since 3 months i havent been able to go to the Gym.i think its because of my So busy schedule.actually i am a university goin student and they give lot of asiignments and projects to deal with. so i am not able to go to the gym. tell me how u manage ur time.??i mean u must have a job so how do u deal with all this time. plz help me out here.

I want only Sir.Evan to reply to my post.
Peace.

Lowdown5
12-10-07, 12:43 am
hey how r ya?? hows it goin hanh!!
listen i have been training for about 1 year but now since 3 months i havent been able to go to the Gym.i think its because of my So busy schedule.actually i am a university goin student and they give lot of asiignments and projects to deal with. so i am not able to go to the gym. tell me how u manage ur time.??i mean u must have a job so how do u deal with all this time. plz help me out here.

I want only Sir.Evan to reply to my post.
Peace.


Bro,

I understand that you want Ox's perspective on this but it can also be beneficial to get others input on the subject. You may learn something from them and excluding others may make you appear rude and discourage others from wanting to help you in the future.

kyderz
12-10-07, 12:49 am
Bro,

I understand that you want Ox's perspective on this but it can also be beneficial to get others input on the subject. You may learn something from them.

I agree 100% Low, because Ox is not the only one who has to manage his time; he does nonetheless.

But, there are other college students that you can take advice from; there are also people who have trouble managing their time who are not in college.

Not all schedules are the same bro.

My gym = not 24/7.

Some are.

krazyassmexican
12-10-07, 8:24 am
hey OX
can yo check your pms whenever you have a chanse please?

pete
12-10-07, 6:34 pm
Can never have too much of it. Gotta make sure its the right people, telling you you're a piece of crap when that's the last thing you wanna hear, but they'll be there for you no matter what. Keep people like that in your inner circle.....can't go wrong.

krazyassmexican
12-10-07, 8:19 pm
Can never have too much of it. Gotta make sure its the right people, telling you you're a piece of crap when that's the last thing you wanna hear, but they'll be there for you no matter what. Keep people like that in your inner circle.....can't go wrong.

??????

kyderz
12-11-07, 6:04 am
Ox..

Are there any foods that you would say are a 100% staple in a bulker's diet [besides beef and potatoes]?

Thanks, bro.

pete
12-11-07, 11:49 am
In the reply yesterday, I mentioned keeping people, who tell you your a piece of crap when its the last thing you wanna hear, in your inner circle. Could be family, could be friends, could be anyone. I know I've got a relative who's exactly like that, though - you don't know what a royal pain is until you meet him. King of assholes, pretty much. Need to talk to someone, he's there. Always. But if you don't like what he says, he doesn't care. Just deal with it.
Or don't talk to him.

krazyassmexican
12-11-07, 11:50 am
In the reply yesterday, I mentioned keeping people, who tell you your a piece of crap when its the last thing you wanna hear, in your inner circle. Could be family, could be friends, could be anyone. I know I've got a relative who's exactly like that, though - you don't know what a royal pain is until you meet him. King of assholes, pretty much. Need to talk to some-one, he's there. Always. But if you don't like what he says, he doesn't care. Just deal with it.
Or don't talk to him.

what does that have to do with evan?

pete
12-11-07, 11:54 am
Support.

simpleguy
12-11-07, 12:04 pm
Support.

bro, this thread is made for you and others to ask ox questions about diet, training and so on, even about Ox himself maybe... but what does this have to do with your posts?

Lowdown5
12-11-07, 12:08 pm
bro, this thread is made for you and others to ask ox questions about diet, training and so on, even about Ox himself maybe... but what does this have to do with your posts?


Agreed, I am lost on the meaning as well.

niladmirari88
12-11-07, 12:38 pm
For starting the keto diet, do I calculate the protien to fat ratio based on what I weight right now or am I calculating for a man who weighs whatever my desired weight is. I'm pretty sure it's the former but I just want to make sure.

Thanks.

Pizzalamp
12-11-07, 12:46 pm
Agreed, I am lost on the meaning as well.

i remember one time evan was talking about the excellent support team he had from everyone in his life
im thinking this is what pete was talking about???
sorry to hyjack ya thread ox

pete
12-11-07, 1:08 pm
I read in Ox's article, after he won, that he said maybe he's spoiled by the support. Maybe he is. It sounded to me like, since he's winning, everyone's following him. If he doesn't win, if he loses - that's not what I want to see, because he's on a roll - will his supporters be there? From what I've seen, when you win, everyone's there for you. When you lose, they disappear. I've seen it happen. When you lose, that's when you find out who your friends really are. If there aren't any there, then its real easy to go into the tank. And, from my experience, liftings predominately mental. So, if anyone who's been there in the past is no longer there, that's a distraction. Now, Ox is thinking more about them than he is about lifting. That's my point. Follow?
I'll talk about diet. Rather lift than talk, anyway.
Not real good at pointing things out because I'm an optimist and people take what I say wrong. Constantly.
I'll talk about diet. Figures into working out. I'll shut up.

krazyassmexican
12-11-07, 1:09 pm
I read in Ox's article, after he won, that he said maybe he's spoiled by the support. Maybe he is. It sounded to me like, since he's winning, everyone's following him. If he doesn't win, if he loses - that's not what I want to see, because he's on a roll - will his supporters be there? From what I've seen, when you win, everyone's there for you. When you lose, they disappear. I've seen it happen. When you lose, that's when you find out who your friends really are. If there aren't any there, then its real easy to go into the tank. And, from my experience, liftings predominately mental. So, if anyone who's been there in the past is no longer there, that's a distraction. Now, Ox is thinking more about them than he is about lifting. That's my point. Follow?
I'll talk about diet. Rather lift than talk, anyway.
Not real good at pointing things out because I'm an optimist and people take what I say wrong. Constantly.
I'll talk about diet. Figures into working out. I'll shut up.

dont need to shut up but be clear instead
i bet you ox was wondering what were you talkin about too

kyderz
12-11-07, 3:05 pm
dont need to shut up but be clear instead
i bet you ox was wondering what were you talkin about too

Yeah bro, he was referring to Ox's newest article on the site.

He was kind of sharing one of his own experiences with what Ox has to say about his huge support system.

Reacher34
12-11-07, 4:41 pm
Yo Ox, just read "In the Air". I don't know if it was the third serving of chicken and potatoes I just choked down or the fact that I actually imagined the "pain" and "hunger" you described in that article....but I felt really nauseous while reading it, lol. Thats a compliment, haha.

I wanted to stop by and say that I've followed your progress for a little bit now. I've read what you write and seen the MDTV interviews. I'm very impressed with you as a bodybuilder and with what I've seen of you as a person. Stay humble and stay hungry and you'll have this fan for life.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:07 am
Can never have too much of it. Gotta make sure its the right people, telling you you're a piece of crap when that's the last thing you wanna hear, but they'll be there for you no matter what. Keep people like that in your inner circle.....can't go wrong.

I don't want anyone telling me I'm crap.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:08 am
Hey OX how have you been ?I have another question for you seeing as how you have given me the best advice when it comes to diet... I'm bulking up right now and have managed to keep it very clean... but last week I was away form home visiting family and was too low on funds to go shoping for my own food and I ate pretty bad for about 7 days pizza mexican food, hamburgers, ext.... now I gain weight pretty easily and I gaind about 8lbs and I can really notice it in my mid section, now that does not bother me so much because I know when you bulk you will gain some bf, just not as much as I have. so to my question can I lose some fat from my mid section while bulking or am I going to have to wait until my cut in febuary I just don't wan't to sacrifice my muscle mass. i've been told to up the cardio and just start eating clean again both of which I have already done just wanted you'r opinion thanks.

You probably gained a lot of water because you were eating foods that weren;t so clean. Just go back to a clean bulk and you'll be fine. Besides, you can't spot reduce. Just eat good quality food and grow.

krazyassmexican
12-12-07, 10:12 am
yo ox
in your new article (http://animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?section=livin&id=395)
i saw you changed your diet a lil
and now looks more like dave's

i think moving the eggs for later on the day is something that i had to do during my cut
(i cant stand them in the morning)

and i saw you changed your spm and egg pro
shakes
for iso whey, any reason for that?

Ox
12-12-07, 10:12 am
Evan,
Congratulations on everything you have accomplished. You and Wrath are my sole inspirations.
I have been bodybuilding for somewhere in between 2-3 yrs and competed and did very well this past summer. I have always been a follower of the anabolic window post workout. Spiking insulin with anywhere from 70 to 130g of dextrose and maltodextrin mix or Waxy Maize starch. I have always been under the impression that I then have somewhere between 3 and 4 hours to consume protein and carbs and no fat to really take advantage of the 'window' i created with the spike. Perhaps 2 meals in that window, possibly 2 meals and a shake.
Have you ever been a fan of this idea? I am debating continuing this protocol or bulking on the Palumbo type diet. Or perhaps a hybrid of both.
Is there a way you could see bulking(like you do in the offseason) while at the same time doing the PWO protocol I wrote above? Is there a way to morph the two ideas into one EFFECTIVE idea?


I do believe in this window. However, I don't subscribe to the diea that everything you eat during this time must be just carbs and protein. As for Dave's diet, he makes use of a lot of carbs in the offseason. His pre-contest diet is zero carbs but offseason he would probably tell you to do what you are already doing but not eliminate fats PWO like you mentioned.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:14 am
hey how r ya?? hows it goin hanh!!
listen i have been training for about 1 year but now since 3 months i havent been able to go to the Gym.i think its because of my So busy schedule.actually i am a university goin student and they give lot of asiignments and projects to deal with. so i am not able to go to the gym. tell me how u manage ur time.??i mean u must have a job so how do u deal with all this time. plz help me out here.

I want only Sir.Evan to reply to my post.
Peace.

You make time. I don't know what else to say. If you want to go to the gym bad enough you'll go. Me telling you my schedule won't help you. Get your ass to the gym. No excuses.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:16 am
Ox..

Are there any foods that you would say are a 100% staple in a bulker's diet [besides beef and potatoes]?

Thanks, bro.

Everything is a staple. If I bother eating it it's a staple. No one food is more important than another. They all work together.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:18 am
For starting the keto diet, do I calculate the protien to fat ratio based on what I weight right now or am I calculating for a man who weighs whatever my desired weight is. I'm pretty sure it's the former but I just want to make sure.

Thanks.

You base it on lean body weight. If your 250 lbs but are 10% bodyfat then you would base your calculations off of 225 lbs.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:20 am
Yo Ox, just read "In the Air". I don't know if it was the third serving of chicken and potatoes I just choked down or the fact that I actually imagined the "pain" and "hunger" you described in that article....but I felt really nauseous while reading it, lol. Thats a compliment, haha.

I wanted to stop by and say that I've followed your progress for a little bit now. I've read what you write and seen the MDTV interviews. I'm very impressed with you as a bodybuilder and with what I've seen of you as a person. Stay humble and stay hungry and you'll have this fan for life.

Thanks man...I appreciate it. It always makes my day when someone says that they are impressed with me as a bodybuilder BUT also as a person. That's far more improtant to me. Thanks again bro.

Ox
12-12-07, 10:23 am
yo ox
in your new article (http://animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?section=livin&id=395)
i saw you changed your diet a lil
and now looks more like dave's

i think moving the eggs for later on the day is something that i had to do during my cut
(i cant stand them in the morning)

and i saw you changed your spm and egg pro
shakes
for iso whey, any reason for that?

What's up Krazy. I just prefereed the eggs later in the day...I wasn't in the mood for them in the morning. The Iso Whey switch is just because there's less carbs and I like the taste and digestability better. Simplicity is key when dieting. You don;t need to throw 4 different protein types at your body in one meal (shake). One source = easier digestion = less bloat. Key when dieting.

krazyassmexican
12-12-07, 10:25 am
What's up Krazy. I just prefereed the eggs later in the day...I wasn't in the mood for them in the morning. The Iso Whey switch is just because there's less carbs and I like the taste and digestability better. Simplicity is key when dieting. You don;t need to throw 4 different protein types at your body in one meal (shake). One source = easier digestion = less bloat. Key when dieting.

good to know bro
you know one thing that amazed me during my diet
was
that i never feel bloated!

next time i cut i will do better
and make you proud!

oh yeah i may do my first show
on december 08
the npc midwest iron man

bobbymart
12-12-07, 10:51 am
You probably gained a lot of water because you were eating foods that weren;t so clean. Just go back to a clean bulk and you'll be fine. Besides, you can't spot reduce. Just eat good quality food and grow.

Thanks OX.

Ox
12-12-07, 12:17 pm
Just wanted to let you guys know that this weekend we're having a get together at 2:00 p.m. in Brooklyn. We'll have some of those red or yellow ANIMAL shirts for you guys. Stop by, grab a workout and we're gonna shoot the shit afterwards and talk shop for a while. It'll be a good time. Come by and train and bring some questions. Hopefully, we can find a place nearby to go get a bite to eat afterwards. It's the offseason you know! Hope to see a bunch of you guys there. Peace.


12-15-07 5th Ave Gym Brooklyn
555 5th Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11215-4855

krazyassmexican
12-12-07, 12:18 pm
Just wanted to let you guys know that this weekend we're having a get together at 2:00 p.m. in Brooklyn. We'll have some of those red or yellow ANIMAL shirts for you guys. Stop by, grab a workout and we're gonna shoot the shit afterwards and talk shop for a while. It'll be a good time. Come by and train and bring some questions. Hopefully, we can find a place nearby to go get a bite to eat afterwards. It's the offseason you know! Hope to see a bunch of you guys there. Peace.


12-15-07 5th Ave Gym Brooklyn
555 5th Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11215-4855

one more time i must start wishing i was on the eastside :(

NPCKnight
12-12-07, 3:33 pm
I do believe in this window. However, I don't subscribe to the diea that everything you eat during this time must be just carbs and protein. As for Dave's diet, he makes use of a lot of carbs in the offseason. His pre-contest diet is zero carbs but offseason he would probably tell you to do what you are already doing but not eliminate fats PWO like you mentioned.

But, when you spike insulin AND consume fat while your insulin levels are still high....doesn't that fat get shuttled to the cells and STORE there? That has always been my understanding.
I always understood you consuming fats PWO because you didn't mechanically spike your insulin with a ton of carbs...

EXUB
12-12-07, 5:04 pm
whats the deal evan? we training in the mia or what :D

Ox
12-12-07, 11:38 pm
But, when you spike insulin AND consume fat while your insulin levels are still high....doesn't that fat get shuttled to the cells and STORE there? That has always been my understanding.
I always understood you consuming fats PWO because you didn't mechanically spike your insulin with a ton of carbs...

Simply put, if you have an excess of calories, doesn't matter which ones, you will store them. Once you fill your muscles with glycogen and or amino acids the excess will be stored as fat. Whether you eat fat or not is irrelevant.

Ox
12-12-07, 11:40 pm
whats the deal evan? we training in the mia or what :D

You tell me...are there any hardcore gyms in coral gables? I don't know bro...hahaha

MonTanaMusCle
12-13-07, 2:28 am
Ox, hey man congratulations on your success. From the articles and interviews Ive read and seen you are a pretty down to earth guy, the sport is lucky to have you in it. I have a couple questions about the keto diet. I'm on day 17 and so far am impressed as hell with it. I have only had 1 cheat meal, on day 14 But I didnt feel like I replenished my glycogen. I have read people having cheat days eating carbs all day do you think this is a good idea? Second since it takes water to pull carbs into the muscle do you think it would help if you depleted water the day before carb loading to make the body more suseptible to hold water on the carb load day? just a thought.

Thanks for the time and help.

Toni69
12-13-07, 4:00 am
Just wanted to let you guys know that this weekend we're having a get together at 2:00 p.m. in Brooklyn. We'll have some of those red or yellow ANIMAL shirts for you guys. Stop by, grab a workout and we're gonna shoot the shit afterwards and talk shop for a while. It'll be a good time. Come by and train and bring some questions. Hopefully, we can find a place nearby to go get a bite to eat afterwards. It's the offseason you know! Hope to see a bunch of you guys there. Peace.


12-15-07 5th Ave Gym Brooklyn
555 5th Ave
Brooklyn, NY 11215-4855

Ohhhh....Brooklyn, NY..my old stomping grounds are all around Brooklyn!!! Dammit I miss all the great gatherings..sucks!
Dont worry..Im back stateside April/May next year and I will be showing up and your all gonna get sick of seeing me at these things! LOL

Ox
12-13-07, 7:44 am
Ox, hey man congratulations on your success. From the articles and interviews Ive read and seen you are a pretty down to earth guy, the sport is lucky to have you in it. I have a couple questions about the keto diet. I'm on day 17 and so far am impressed as hell with it. I have only had 1 cheat meal, on day 14 But I didnt feel like I replenished my glycogen. I have read people having cheat days eating carbs all day do you think this is a good idea? Second since it takes water to pull carbs into the muscle do you think it would help if you depleted water the day before carb loading to make the body more suseptible to hold water on the carb load day? just a thought.

Thanks for the time and help.

Thanks buddy. As for the diet, trust me, a full day is too much...and the last thing you want to do is anything to manipulate your water. How is your weight? If it was dropping too fast the only thing I MIGHT suggest is doing two, not cheat meals, but STRUCTURED carb meals twice per week. You would need to have a Dexter Jackson type metbolism to require this though. Chances are you should just stick with the original diet. It's too ealry to tell if you're losing too much weight too quickly because in the beggining you drop so much water.

EXUB
12-13-07, 8:09 am
of course

Toni69
12-13-07, 9:37 am
Thanks buddy. As for the diet, trust me, a full day is too much...and the last thing you want to do is anything to manipulate your water. How is your weight? If it was dropping too fast the only thing I MIGHT suggest is doing two, not cheat meals, but STRUCTURED carb meals twice per week. You would need to have a Dexter Jackson type metbolism to require this though. Chances are you should just stick with the original diet. It's too ealry to tell if you're losing too much weight too quickly because in the beggining you drop so much water.

I was just gonna ask you the same thing...like last night was my cheat meal day. I had 1 cup oats with 1 tbs natty pb as my last meal...and didnt feel anything today...it was weird. I think I looked my flattest today then being on zero the whole time! It was weird today..my strength was up, just looked skinny for some reason..maybe its just me. I just feel like I burned right through them..like instantly!

Do you ever look or feel different the day after your cheat meal? Maybe I didnt eat enough carbs last night..I mean the total for the day with tiny amounts coming from nuts and pb, including the oats last night was 66g.

You think I should have another on sunday?

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 9:45 am
I was just gonna ask you the same thing...like last night was my cheat meal day. I had 1 cup oats with 1 tbs natty pb as my last meal...and didnt feel anything today...it was weird. I think I looked my flattest today then being on zero the whole time! It was weird today..my strength was up, just looked skinny for some reason..maybe its just me.

Do you ever look or feel different the day after your cheat meal? Maybe I didnt eat enough carbs last night..I mean the total for the day with tiny amounts coming from nuts and pb, including the oats last night was 66g.

You think I should have another on sunday?

in my opinion
you gotta cheat big
and ox and dave palumbo may agree with me when i say
the quality of your cheat meal is not really important
but giving a break to your body and most important your brain

i swear there were many times when i wanted to shoot myself because of the sugar cravings LOL oh yeah
after i cheated i would just see my veins poppin and look great LOL after that i dunno cuz you are supposed to go to sleep
remember

your cheat meal is not to have enough glycogen for the next few days but to have glycogen just for the night and to boost your metabolism

Toni69
12-13-07, 10:23 am
I Didnt Even Enjoy The Meal..is That Crazy? I Felt Terrible After Eating It..like I Wasnt Supposed To And It Was Just Oats. But This Is How I Am..I Stay So Focused And On Track AND SOMEWHAT OBSESSIVE Whenever Im in show prep, That Anything That Sounds A Bit Odd..like A Cheat Meal, (and A Healthier One At That Cause I Dont Eat Shit As Ox Knows About Me), Just Wont Fly With Me. I Actually Feel And Look Way Better On Zero Carbs..I Think So. I dont crave sugars at all anymore either.

Perhaps I Didnt Eat Enough. I Will Wait And See What The Man Says About Adding In Another meal. I Actually Burn Through Carbs Like They Are Water. Vinny Knows This Too From Dieting Me Last Year. I Believe This Year, The Zero Carb Thing Is Gonna Def Work To My Advantage..I Just Wanna Stay On The Right Track.

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 10:27 am
I Didnt Even Enjoy The Meal..is That Crazy? I Felt Terrible After Eating It..like I Wasnt Supposed To And It Was Just Oats. But This Is How I Am..I Stay So Focused And On Track AND SOMEWHAT OBSESSIVE Whenever Im in show prep, That Anything That Sounds A Bit Odd..like A Cheat Meal, (and A Healthier One At That Cause I Dont Eat Shit As Ox Knows About Me), Just Wont Fly With Me. I Actually Feel And Look Way Better On Zero Carbs..I Think So. I dont crave sugars at all anymore either.

Perhaps I Didnt Eat Enough. I Will Wait And See What The Man Says About Adding In Another meal. I Actually Burn Through Carbs Like They Are Water. Vinny Knows This Too From Dieting Me Last Year. I Believe This Year, The Zero Carb Thing Is Gonna Def Work To My Advantage..I Just Wanna Stay On The Right Track.

sorry i didnt mean to bother or go against your ways
i was just expressin my opinion
good luck on your contest!

Toni69
12-13-07, 10:28 am
are you krazy??? lol...get it? you didnt go against my ways! Dont make me come over there! Yea..through your screen! LOL

Im just curious as to what the head honcho here will say...your input is much appreciated always!

Griff_225
12-13-07, 2:03 pm
OX,

Posted this a while back but you were prepping for your show. Late Congrats by the way. Updated it with some changes. Seems to be working ok, getting some size and still losing fat. Anyone got any ideas for me, see any weaknesses, or have any suggestions?

GRIFF


Hey Ox,

Im back from Iraq, jsut got all settled and built the diet, the workout and the stak. let me know what you think. Anyone else feel free to pipe in too!!

Currently I weight 235. goals are to cut fat and bulk up my shoulders and arms. Chest and back are pretty good but I need to catch the rest up.

Plan is for a diet of
360g Protein
360g Carbs
3600 Cals
120g Fat

The daily diet and stak plus times are as follows:

0500-
10g Protein shake. (shake is similar to Iso-Whey, but diff brand.)
Animal Cuts
2 Xnadrine pills
(This is when I go for a run, usually between 20-30mins. Do AM cardio Mon-Tues- Thurs-Fri)

Post-Cardio-
20g Protein Shake (same Iso-=Whey stuff)
glutamine tab 500mg

0700- Breakfast- 5 eggs. 2 yolks, 3 whites
1/2cup oatmeal(precook weight)
1 tablespoon flax seed powder in oatmeal
2 Uni-Liver tabs
animal pak
animal flex

0900- 6oz chicken
1/2cup rice(uncooked weight)
fruit (usually pear or strawberries)
veggie (either a california blend, broccilli or corn (1 cup uncooked weight)
2 uni-liver tabs

1100-Pre workout
20g Protein shake (same Iso-Whey)
2 tablespoons of oatmeal in shake
Xnadrine -2 pills
Storm

(SEE BELOW FOR WORKOUT)

Post-Workout-Approx 1300
40g Protein Shake (same Iso-Whey)
Glutamine tab
Storm
torrent

Lunch-1400- 6oz chicken
1/2 cup(uncooked weight) rice
fruit- strawberries or pears
broccoli- 1 cup uncooked weight
2 uni-liver tabs

Mid-Afternoon- 1600- 6 oz chicken
1/2cup rice (uncooked weight) (LAST CARB OF DAY)
broccoli- 1 cup uncooked weight
2 uni-liver tabs

Dinner- 1800- 6oz chicken
1 cup uncooked weight broccoli
2 uni-liver tabs

pre bed- appox 2000 or 2100- 20g Protein shake (Casein, Whey Blend)
2 tablespoons Peanut butter (chunky)

Now for the workout- I do a 5 on- 2 off schedule. I take saturday and Sunday off.
I normally do a few warmup sets in the beginning of each mucle group. apporx 6-10 reps for 3-5 sets per. I try to mix it up and do what I can to get a good pump. My wokrouts take apporx one hour to 75mins.

Mondays- Bis-Tris-fores

straight bar curls
alternting dumbbell curls
bi culr machine single arm
hammer curls

rope pressdowns
skull crushers- down to the eyes, not over the head
over head single arm dumbbell extentions
single arm rope extentions

reverse grip barbell forearm curls, on the bench.
front grip barbellcurls
standing behind back barbell forearm curls

Tuesday-Legs

double leg ext
Squats
Front Squats
Leg Press
single leg ext

lying leg curls
stiff leg deads
wide stance leg press
standing leg curls

leg press calf ext
standing calf machine
reverse calf pulls(for the front of the calfs)

Wednesday- Back-traps

Weighted Pullups
Bent over Barbell rows-wide grip
Pull downs
Seated Rows
T-bar rows


weighted lower back extentons

simth shrugs
dumbell shrugs

Thurs- Chest fores

Dips- w/ weights
dumbbell incline press
dumbbell flat press
flat press
incline press
iso-fly machine

reverse grip barbell forearm curls, on the bench.
front grip barbellcurls
standing behind back barbell forearm curls

Friday- Shoulders- calfs, abductors and aductors

dumbbell overhead press
barbell overhead press
dumbell side raises
dumbell front raises
reverse pec deck

abductors machine
aductors machine

leg press calf ext
standing calf machine
reverse calf pulls(for the front of the calfs)

I do Abs 2-4 days per week depending on when I have time and I vary what I do for them. I jsut make sure that I hit the top, the bottom and the sides each time and work them hard varying weights and resistance with doing higher numbers to burn them out.

Other than that I cant think of much else. I try and get 8 hours of sleep a nite. I dont drink coffee or pop. I drink 1.5-2 gallons of water per day.

Anyone got any suggestions or comments?

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 3:03 pm
OX i got a new question for you......

when i was cuttin i would have my pre workout meal at 4pm and work out at 4:30pm

since i was doing cardio
i will get off the gym a 7:00pm
in time for dinner which was my post workout meal

now that i am bulkin i'll do the same but since i dont do cardio
i will get off the gym at around 6:00pm

i am going an hour without food
and dont want to waste muscles
i am carb sensitive so dextrose or anything like that scares me

is there any supp you could recommend me to fix this?
or could you give me some tips?

Ox
12-13-07, 3:04 pm
I was just gonna ask you the same thing...like last night was my cheat meal day. I had 1 cup oats with 1 tbs natty pb as my last meal...and didnt feel anything today...it was weird. I think I looked my flattest today then being on zero the whole time! It was weird today..my strength was up, just looked skinny for some reason..maybe its just me. I just feel like I burned right through them..like instantly!

Do you ever look or feel different the day after your cheat meal? Maybe I didnt eat enough carbs last night..I mean the total for the day with tiny amounts coming from nuts and pb, including the oats last night was 66g.

You think I should have another on sunday?

1 cup oats is not a cheat meal! You didn't eat enough! Trust me, eat some different carbs next time. For example, when I have my cheat meal I probably get 250g carbs from white rice + another 100g or so from some chocolate or some type of desert. It's called a CHEAT meal for a reason!

Ox
12-13-07, 3:08 pm
[QUOTE=krazyassmexican;241670]OX i got a new question for you......

when i was cuttin i would have my pre workout meal at 4pm and work out at 4:30pm

since i was doing cardio
i will get off the gym a 7:00pm
in time for dinner which was my post workout meal

now that i am bulkin i'll do the same but since i dont do cardio
i will get off the gym at around 6:00pm

i am going an hour without food
and dont want to waste muscles
i am carb sensitive so dextrose or anything like that scares me

is there any supp you could recommend me to fix this?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking...what do you want to fix?

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 3:11 pm
[QUOTE=krazyassmexican;241670]OX i got a new question for you......

when i was cuttin i would have my pre workout meal at 4pm and work out at 4:30pm

since i was doing cardio
i will get off the gym a 7:00pm
in time for dinner which was my post workout meal

now that i am bulkin i'll do the same but since i dont do cardio
i will get off the gym at around 6:00pm

i am going an hour without food
and dont want to waste muscles
i am carb sensitive so dextrose or anything like that scares me

is there any supp you could recommend me to fix this?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking...what do you want to fix?

my timming will come on something like pre workout meal 4:00pm post workout meal 7:00pm

but from the end of my workout to my post workout meal there's an hour of difference
i dont wanna risk no muscles on that lap

what should i have to prevent my muscles from starving until my 7:00pm meal?

Ox
12-13-07, 4:41 pm
[QUOTE=Ox;241674]

my timming will come on something like pre workout meal 4:00pm post workout meal 7:00pm

but from the end of my workout to my post workout meal there's an hour of difference
i dont wanna risk no muscles on that lap

what should i have to prevent my muscles from starving until my 7:00pm meal?

Have some whey PWO or a few paks of Animal Nitro.

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 4:43 pm
[QUOTE=krazyassmexican;241675]

Have some whey PWO or a few paks of Animal Nitro.


will do bro everyone talks about torrent but ill do the whey for now and nitro in the future

Toni69
12-13-07, 5:04 pm
1 cup oats is not a cheat meal! You didn't eat enough! Trust me, eat some different carbs next time. For example, when I have my cheat meal I probably get 250g carbs from white rice + another 100g or so from some chocolate or some type of desert. It's called a CHEAT meal for a reason!

Crap! You ate chocolate??? No wonder I didnt enjoy my dam cheat meal! hahahahaha! Now I gotta wait another friggin week! What the hell man? Ugh!

krazyassmexican
12-13-07, 5:06 pm
Crap! You ate chocolate??? No wonder I didnt enjoy my dam cheat meal! hahahahaha! Now I gotta wait another friggin week! What the hell man? Ugh!

dont want to but i will say:

i told you! LOL

please dont kill me =(

(goes away from the computer before the krazyman gets a cyber smack)

MonTanaMusCle
12-13-07, 5:08 pm
Thanks buddy. As for the diet, trust me, a full day is too much...and the last thing you want to do is anything to manipulate your water. How is your weight? If it was dropping too fast the only thing I MIGHT suggest is doing two, not cheat meals, but STRUCTURED carb meals twice per week. You would need to have a Dexter Jackson type metbolism to require this though. Chances are you should just stick with the original diet. It's too ealry to tell if you're losing too much weight too quickly because in the beggining you drop so much water.

Thanks brother, I have lost 12 lbs so far, I'm guessing water, my strength has actually gone up, but maybe thats the M-Stack talkin lol. Also I wasnt able to go to sleep immediatly after the meal, but man did I ever crash like a s.o.b. I'll keep at the one structured carb meal (sounds better then cheat meal) for a little while I'm hoping to see some fat drop instead of water. thanks again man I'll get this figured out one day.

Toni69
12-13-07, 5:15 pm
dont want to but i will say:

i told you! LOL

please dont kill me =(

(goes away from the computer before the krazyman gets a cyber smack)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!