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Ox
05-15-08, 7:59 pm
Why?

Because if you have it as any other meal but last:
A. Your insulin levels will be raised fo the rest of the day and you will feel like shit.
B. It will be very difficult for you have your cheat meal and stop and go back to your diet.

B.C.
05-15-08, 8:01 pm
No. Muscle Milk is crap. It uses non-essential fats such as MCT oil and other cheap fats. 2 scoops gives you 32g protein!? That's a horrible yield. Out of 70g you get 32g of protein, the rest is 16g of carbs, 4 of which are sugar and 12g of fat from MCT oil and long chain polyunsaturated fats! What a shit product. And I'm not just saying this because where on the Animal Pak forvm. If you came to me with a quality product I would never tell you not to take it. Simply put, MuscleMilk is shit.

Nice...straight from the Ox's mouth. They try to market those fats as EFAs too. What a load of crap.

Joseb
05-15-08, 11:41 pm
lol muscle milk tastes good though..
jk
im just joking evan dont get mad at me!

why not just take isowhey? [is this purely whey isolates? or is it called iso because it is carb free?]

oh and since we are in the protein powder discussion mode [lol]
Evan, whats your take on the 100% Optimum Whey?

APE
05-16-08, 12:26 am
Just to piggy back off of Joseb's question. For the keto, would you recommend a combination of the Egg Pro Ultra and Specialized protein for lean mass or would the Ultra Iso Whey be efficient enough?

Achilles
05-17-08, 2:32 am
Ox, I dont know if this is a good problem to have or not .. as I previously mentioned I am training for a show and right now I'm still massing up. the show is Sept13th and I plan to start my contest diet the first of august. Onto my question, so w/ all the calories I'm consuming I'm still seeing cross striation in my shoulders and back and even in my upper abs! I've always been on the lean side. My diet consist of beef, chicken, oats, potato's and protein shakes. I also ALWAYS make sure to get my protein shake in, in that 45 min window after training. People are telling me I wont have to diet as hard because of how naturally lean I am, I have striation in my pecs at all times .. dieting or not .. sigh .. so finally my question is, as I'm getting bigger is it normal to see more definition as I continue to put on bodyweight ?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1258.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1260.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1261.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1253.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/MspaceIV.jpg

This is how I look 3 monthes and 25 days out .. be honest with me, not nice. Tell me what you think I should do .. no bullshit

Ox
05-17-08, 11:36 am
Just to piggy back off of Joseb's question. For the keto, would you recommend a combination of the Egg Pro Ultra and Specialized protein for lean mass or would the Ultra Iso Whey be efficient enough?

Either Iso Whey or Speacialized Protein for Lean Mass are fine.

B.C.
05-17-08, 11:41 am
Ox, I dont know if this is a good problem to have or not .. as I previously mentioned I am training for a show and right now I'm still massing up. the show is Sept13th and I plan to start my contest diet the first of august. Onto my question, so w/ all the calories I'm consuming I'm still seeing cross striation in my shoulders and back and even in my upper abs! I've always been on the lean side. My diet consist of beef, chicken, oats, potato's and protein shakes. I also ALWAYS make sure to get my protein shake in, in that 45 min window after training. People are telling me I wont have to diet as hard because of how naturally lean I am, I have striation in my pecs at all times .. dieting or not .. sigh .. so finally my question is, as I'm getting bigger is it normal to see more definition as I continue to put on bodyweight ?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1258.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1260.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1261.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1253.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/MspaceIV.jpg

This is how I look 3 monthes and 25 days out .. be honest with me, not nice. Tell me what you think I should do .. no bullshit

What a horrible problem to have.

Ox
05-17-08, 11:43 am
Ox, I dont know if this is a good problem to have or not .. as I previously mentioned I am training for a show and right now I'm still massing up. the show is Sept13th and I plan to start my contest diet the first of august. Onto my question, so w/ all the calories I'm consuming I'm still seeing cross striation in my shoulders and back and even in my upper abs! I've always been on the lean side. My diet consist of beef, chicken, oats, potato's and protein shakes. I also ALWAYS make sure to get my protein shake in, in that 45 min window after training. People are telling me I wont have to diet as hard because of how naturally lean I am, I have striation in my pecs at all times .. dieting or not .. sigh .. so finally my question is, as I'm getting bigger is it normal to see more definition as I continue to put on bodyweight ?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1258.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1260.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1261.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/DSCN1253.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/Jd0t/MspaceIV.jpg

This is how I look 3 monthes and 25 days out .. be honest with me, not nice. Tell me what you think I should do .. no bullshit


In my honest opinion I think you should start eating your face off. You obviously have a very high metabolism and you are gonna need to eat a shitload to grow. You're still so lean and have so much detail because you haven't put on enough size. Your diet sounds vey clean...too clean I'm sure. You didn't really name any fats and if that's the case, you need to start adding more fats to grow. Olive oil, nuts, whole eggs, more red meat, fatty fish, shit....I'd even throw in some bacon or sauasgae with breakfast for someone your size. You need to eat to grow. Chicken and potatos aren't gonna cut it. More fat and more carbs. Your protein intake is probably sufficient. YOU NEED MORE FOOD. I would make it your objective to grow as much as possible until you begin dieting.

calcaneous
05-17-08, 2:56 pm
i was reading up on dave's mass diet, and was wondering if i got this information correct.

50grams protein
25grams fat
35-50grams carb

per meal. (6 meals per day, starting off)

would it be bad to start at 25carbs a meal while taking in the torrent post workout? and then start to add more carbs in?

ill be doing this after i maintain a little bit on the "ox diet", so my body will still be running off "keto"

Wild Cat
05-18-08, 4:53 am
Is Cereal, breads, a glass of milk and sandwiches condsidered good eating or snacking. If I'm bulking is bringing sandwiches to work a bad thing and is the occasional bowl of Raisin Bran gonna make or break me? When I say cereal I'm talking Raisin Bran, Blueberry crunch, and other high fiber cereal. Is it better just to get my fiber from a brown rice or other high fiber organic choices like vitamin rich fruits and veggies to avoid the high insulin response from milk and some breads? Is this food in the same category as chocolate bars and candy and should only be occasionally eaten if hard earned and deserved? Should this stuff only be considered treats and saved post workout or is it ok to spread throughout the day and used as staples in my eating program?

-Wild Cat

mikejones1
05-18-08, 10:31 am
man we got the mad scientist in the house, i love reading this stuff, helping the cats out, theres not a question this man cant solve

Coach Fowler
05-19-08, 1:58 pm
When are you going to be adding to your own web site?
Getting ready to do the summer cuts while the rest of the football team is getting heavy...they're trying to catch up to the "old guy".

Question: How much feedback have you gotten from the above 40 crowd regarding your diet? Will the supplementation & feeding fit in with the slower metabolism or do I need to adjust?

Presently, I'm 5'6" and a decent 200#. Decent body fat & heavy lifts. Animal Pak, Flex, Whey, Torrent, & a pre-workout. Four to five meals a day. I am preparing for the future as re-introducing myself in the over 50 masters.
Any other suggestions?

ministrssm
05-19-08, 2:13 pm
ever hear of or use the dc training. read about it briefly before and was wondering what your thoughts were on it. im in this for the results. been maintaining for yrs now and i want more, massive results from my workouts.

Lunatic001
05-19-08, 4:52 pm
Ox,

How your training camp coming along? While on keto would it be okay to train on a empty stomach? I have to switch my lifting sessions to 430 am couple days out of the week and I was wondering if it was okay to just take Pump/or storm pre workout, lift, then nitro and pwo meal?? Hope everything is coming along. Saw the interview w/Dave on MDTV during the NY pro and I guess you said you were around 280? Keep training hard and smart and whenever you hit the west coast let us know to do organize an ABC event. The west needs some love too....keep training hard and smart...

thanks,
Lunatic001

Ox
05-19-08, 8:59 pm
When are you going to be adding to your own web site?
Getting ready to do the summer cuts while the rest of the football team is getting heavy...they're trying to catch up to the "old guy".

Question: How much feedback have you gotten from the above 40 crowd regarding your diet? Will the supplementation & feeding fit in with the slower metabolism or do I need to adjust?

Presently, I'm 5'6" and a decent 200#. Decent body fat & heavy lifts. Animal Pak, Flex, Whey, Torrent, & a pre-workout. Four to five meals a day. I am preparing for the future as re-introducing myself in the over 50 masters.
Any other suggestions?

To tell you the truth, most of the time, I don't know how old anyone is who asks me for info. It's typically over the net and I don't know how old they are. But i have given it toplenty of people over 40 and it's the same deal. Understand, the diet works due to hormonal manipulation (limiting insulin release). That mechanism is the same in you as it is in me as it is in your mom so it works well for anyone.

Ox
05-19-08, 9:00 pm
ever hear of or use the dc training. read about it briefly before and was wondering what your thoughts were on it. im in this for the results. been maintaining for yrs now and i want more, massive results from my workouts.

What does DC stand for?

Ox
05-19-08, 9:03 pm
Ox,

How your training camp coming along? While on keto would it be okay to train on a empty stomach? I have to switch my lifting sessions to 430 am couple days out of the week and I was wondering if it was okay to just take Pump/or storm pre workout, lift, then nitro and pwo meal?? Hope everything is coming along. Saw the interview w/Dave on MDTV during the NY pro and I guess you said you were around 280? Keep training hard and smart and whenever you hit the west coast let us know to do organize an ABC event. The west needs some love too....keep training hard and smart...

thanks,
Lunatic001

I suppose you could train on an empty stomach but I think it's better to train after you have a few meals in you. But try it. If you feel fine then I don't see any problem with it. Damn...I
m never on the West coast. If I am I'll let you know.

krazyassmexican
05-19-08, 9:06 pm
What does DC stand for?

Doggcrap training, 1 set per body part rest paused 3 times
followed by extreme stretching

Wild Cat
05-20-08, 3:47 am
Hey Ox I asked you this question on page 88 but I got the impression that you missed it because you answered all the questions from everyone else on page 89. I was the last post on the page 88 after you answered a bunch before, I figured you just assumed the next questions were posted on page 89. Forgive me though if I'm totally wrong and you just haven't got to it or if you just skipped it cause you thought It was a bullshit question.

"Is Cereal, breads, a glass of milk and sandwiches condsidered good eating or snacking. If I'm bulking is bringing sandwiches to work a bad thing and is the occasional bowl of Raisin Bran gonna make or break me? Does the salt from the deli meats which are also proccessed mixed with the insulin response from bread make sandwiches a bad choice although there considered by most a healthy part of a healthy breakfast or snack?

When I say cereal I'm talking Raisin Bran, Blueberry crunch, and other high fiber cereal. Is it better just to get my fiber from a brown rice or other high fiber organic choices like vitamin rich fruits and veggies to avoid the high insulin response from milk and some breads? Is this food in the same category as chocolate bars and candy and should only be occasionally eaten if hard earned and deserved? Should this stuff only be considered treats and saved post workout or is it ok to spread throughout the day and used as staples in my eating program?"

-Wild Cat

Lunatic001
05-20-08, 10:55 am
I suppose you could train on an empty stomach but I think it's better to train after you have a few meals in you. But try it. If you feel fine then I don't see any problem with it. Damn...I
m never on the West coast. If I am I'll let you know.

Thanks man I'll give it a shot and see how it feels....About the west coast visit, I'll hold you to it....

Ox
05-21-08, 5:57 pm
Doggcrap training, 1 set per body part rest paused 3 times
followed by extreme stretching

I don't know. I've never tried it but pretty much anything CAN and WILL work for a period of time. Personally, I like volume.

Ox
05-21-08, 6:06 pm
Hey Ox I asked you this question on page 88 but I got the impression that you missed it because you answered all the questions from everyone else on page 89. I was the last post on the page 88 after you answered a bunch before, I figured you just assumed the next questions were posted on page 89. Forgive me though if I'm totally wrong and you just haven't got to it or if you just skipped it cause you thought It was a bullshit question.

"Is Cereal, breads, a glass of milk and sandwiches condsidered good eating or snacking. If I'm bulking is bringing sandwiches to work a bad thing and is the occasional bowl of Raisin Bran gonna make or break me? Does the salt from the deli meats which are also proccessed mixed with the insulin response from bread make sandwiches a bad choice although there considered by most a healthy part of a healthy breakfast or snack?

When I say cereal I'm talking Raisin Bran, Blueberry crunch, and other high fiber cereal. Is it better just to get my fiber from a brown rice or other high fiber organic choices like vitamin rich fruits and veggies to avoid the high insulin response from milk and some breads? Is this food in the same category as chocolate bars and candy and should only be occasionally eaten if hard earned and deserved? Should this stuff only be considered treats and saved post workout or is it ok to spread throughout the day and used as staples in my eating program?"

-Wild Cat


In my opinion, crap is crap and it has no significant place in a serious bodybuilder's diet. If you want some carbs have some rice, oats, potatos, fruit etc. If you want fat get your omegas and throw in some natty PB, olive oil, fatty fish. If you want protein...you get the point. There's no reason to eat shit or to try and rationalize eating it. If you eat just because you want to eat it okay. Personally, I think shit like cereal and and LUNCH MEAT really have no place at all in anyone's diet. It's just processed shit. At least milk is natural. I'd rather see you have a cheeseburger (home made of course) than eat lunch meat. Breakfast cereal and lunch meat never helped anyone attain their physique goals. Will they kill you? No but they will not help you look your best.

Joseb
05-21-08, 7:34 pm
Evan:
Is whole grain wheat bread okay? I mean, i have tuna sandwiches and Ive been wondering for a while now

dannynb
05-21-08, 8:01 pm
Hey Ox...been making some great gains the past few months and my show's coming up in November, sitting at 6'2", 237lbs 10%bf. I have a little over a month left to gain a little more weight before starting to diet down on July 1st. Anyways, depending on what the doc tells me tomorrow at my appointment (hurt my back again, may not be able to compete for awhile again like last time) Ok...enough rammbling...I want to do your keto diet this year...so when it gets closer to my starting time I hope to catch ya on here to help me piece my meal plans together...thanks bro.

Wild Cat
05-22-08, 4:03 am
Thanks Ox, It always surprises me how much effort you put in to each answer for each question. It's cool that even though you have your own pursuits and are a hundred chips and more ahead of us all in this game, you still have time for the little guys.

-Wild Cat

B.C.
05-22-08, 5:45 am
Thanks Ox, It always surprises me how much effort you put in to each answer for each question. It's cool that even though you have your own pursuits and are a hundred chips and more ahead of us all in this game, you still have time for the little guys.

-Wild Cat

AMEN

APE
05-22-08, 6:23 pm
I have been getting a lot of mixed information about cheese on the keto. It has <1g carbs, so it should be fine right? The same question goes for ranch dressing, 0g carb 20g fat, would that be fine as well?

B.C.
05-22-08, 6:36 pm
I have been getting a lot of mixed information about cheese on the keto. It has <1g carbs, so it should be fine right? The same question goes for ranch dressing, 0g carb 20g fat, would that be fine as well?

Probably not the kind of fat you're lookin' for.

krazyassmexican
05-22-08, 7:18 pm
I have been getting a lot of mixed information about cheese on the keto. It has <1g carbs, so it should be fine right? The same question goes for ranch dressing, 0g carb 20g fat, would that be fine as well?

dave/evan's diet is healthy fats only
it is a heart healthy diet

if you are doing any other keto diet they should be fine

Ox
05-22-08, 8:12 pm
Evan:
Is whole grain wheat bread okay? I mean, i have tuna sandwiches and Ive been wondering for a while now

It's not the best carb choice. I think potatos, oatmeal, and rice are better carb options. But if you're just trying to get as big as possible I guess bread won't hurt. It just isn't the best.

Ox
05-22-08, 8:13 pm
[QUOTE=dannynb;400587]Hey Ox...been making some great gains the past few months and my show's coming up in November, sitting at 6'2", 237lbs 10%bf. I have a little over a month left to gain a little more weight before starting to diet down on July 1st. Anyways, depending on what the doc tells me tomorrow at my appointment (hurt my back again, may not be able to compete for awhile again like last time) Ok...enough rammbling...I want to do your keto diet this year...so when it gets closer to my starting time I hope to catch ya on here to help me piece my meal plans together...thanks bro.[/QUOTE

You know where to find me. Hit me up with any Qs you have and we'll iron em out. Good luck bro.

Ox
05-22-08, 8:17 pm
I have been getting a lot of mixed information about cheese on the keto. It has <1g carbs, so it should be fine right? The same question goes for ranch dressing, 0g carb 20g fat, would that be fine as well?

Ranch dressing? Cheese? C'mon bro. Dogshit probably has <1g carbs but I wouldn't eat it if I wanted to look and feel my best. People who make serious improvements in their physiques while simultaneously improving their health and overall quality of life are not eating cheese and ranch dressing. You may be thinking of an Atkins type of diet which I do not agree with. I believe in QUALITY protein and fat sources and sufficient amounts of green veggies. Processed foods and foods laden with saturated fat, preservatives, trans fats all have no place in the diet of someone who is trying to improve their health and look their best.

BamBam
05-22-08, 9:10 pm
Is there ever a time when you sub out the almonds and natty PB for more meat or just cut them out (for whatever reason). Just wondering. I have been on KETO (your diet you posted here) for the past 3 weeks...now going on 4 Saturday. Just wondering if you switch things up and if so, when? Thanks for your help man and I feel like a monster on this diet

RenegadeRows
05-22-08, 10:19 pm
Yo Ox, it is awesome reading your articles in the MD mags every month bro. Got a question for you that has been fucking with my mind bad...

Im on the Keto diet 220LBM current weight is 240 and am taking in 295-300g of protein and 150g fat. I eat 8 whole large eggs a day. What kind of fat do eggs yolks contain and should they be counting towards my daily fat intake number?

I must say that these are not special eggs, just regular large eggs.

Thanks bro. I have searched the internet on this shit but didnt find anything useful.

Pizzalamp
05-23-08, 12:04 am
Hey Evan...hope all is well with you..I have a question...Im on week 7 of the diet and Im down to 208 at 9% bodyfat...Im planning on continuing the diet for another 4-5 weeks

When would you reccomend to cut out the cheat meals?

Thanks


PS-my friend is buying a Smart car like the one you drove in lol

Rhetoric
05-23-08, 1:15 am
Breakfast cereal and lunch meat never helped anyone attain their physique goals. Will they kill you? No but they will not help you look your best.
Jared from Subway would be so disappointed...
But seriously, good post. Too many people think that sandwiches are healthy just because they tend to be low fat...

krazyassmexican
05-23-08, 9:11 am
Jared from Subway would be so disappointed...
But seriously, good post. Too many people think that sandwiches are healthy just because they tend to be low fat...

remember subway has a zero fat low carb sandwich?
i think it's bread and veggies lol

Coach Fowler
05-23-08, 12:34 pm
Why would anyone hit a lousy training session in the gym? It's like eating lousy food or having lousy sex. Man, either get in & do it right or don't do it. Either lead or follow, but get out of the way.

krazyassmexican
05-23-08, 12:35 pm
Why would anyone hit a lousy training session in the gym? It's like eating lousy food or having lousy sex. Man, either get in & do it right or don't do it. Either lead or follow, but get out of the way.

huh?

Coach Fowler
05-23-08, 12:38 pm
sorry, hit the wrong friggin' button. Supposed to be for another post where the "lifter" was schelpping through his routine.

krazyassmexican
05-23-08, 3:47 pm
hey evan i know dave recommends to cut the carbs on the last meal (in the offseasson)
ever since i came off from keto believe it or not

my lean mass went from 159lbs to 168lbs

but
i am retaining water and gained fat too

i take my post workout shake (torrent)
at 6pm

then at seven i had a lean protein souce with greens, walnuts and rice
my last meal was at 10pm

but recently i stoppend the rice

my gut is not as bloated
problem is i dont wanna cut yet

do you think addin a fat burner will help me at least mantain that bf and not let it increase?
or should i forget about fat burners offseasson?

humanforklift
05-24-08, 9:28 am
Hey Evan, just want to start by thanking you for all of the advice and guidance. I came across a training method called Cumulative Blood Volume Training...kinda reminds me of DC training mixed with High. Intensity. Training. Just wanted to get your opinion as I've tried working out this way to shock my muscles all this week and I've gotten a hell of a pump. Thanks again.

Renji007
05-24-08, 12:05 pm
Hey Ox. Thanks for the inspiration that you've brought to me man. It's really helped me become a whole lot bigger (Went from 125 to 158 in just a year) and gets me really motivated to learn as much as you do about nutrition and training.

I wanted to ask your advice about a cardio question that I have. Which one is better in your opinion, jump rope, or the tredmil? I like running, but I also enjoy jump rope and it's made me wonder which one has more of an effect on your body. I know that with a tredmil it's easier to burn calories, but I've read a lot of stuff about jump roping too. I just wanted to get your opinion on it since I've been wondering about this for the past week.

Thanks for any and all info man.
-Renji

Ox
05-25-08, 12:04 pm
Is there ever a time when you sub out the almonds and natty PB for more meat or just cut them out (for whatever reason). Just wondering. I have been on KETO (your diet you posted here) for the past 3 weeks...now going on 4 Saturday. Just wondering if you switch things up and if so, when? Thanks for your help man and I feel like a monster on this diet

NO! That's a mistake that a lot of people make. You want to keep things in the ratio that they are. You don't want your protein to supercede your fat too much because your body may recognize protein as the more abundant energy source and tap into amino acids as it's primary energy source. Keep it the way it is.

Ox
05-25-08, 12:08 pm
Yo Ox, it is awesome reading your articles in the MD mags every month bro. Got a question for you that has been fucking with my mind bad...

Im on the Keto diet 220LBM current weight is 240 and am taking in 295-300g of protein and 150g fat. I eat 8 whole large eggs a day. What kind of fat do eggs yolks contain and should they be counting towards my daily fat intake number?

I must say that these are not special eggs, just regular large eggs.

Thanks bro. I have searched the internet on this shit but didnt find anything useful.

The eggs should be from vegetarian fed hens. The yolks contain saturated, monounsaurated, and polyunsaturated fats and yes the fat should be counted toward your fat intake. Hens that are fed a vegetarian diet consisting of flax seeds produce eggs that are very high in Omega-3 fatty acids. And whats even better is that you get EPA and DHA as opposed to straight ALA from the flax. EPA and DHA are the omega 3s that ALA must be converted into before they are used. Animals are very efficient at it, humans are not so great at it.

Ox
05-25-08, 12:10 pm
Hey Evan...hope all is well with you..I have a question...Im on week 7 of the diet and Im down to 208 at 9% bodyfat...Im planning on continuing the diet for another 4-5 weeks

When would you reccomend to cut out the cheat meals?

Thanks


PS-my friend is buying a Smart car like the one you drove in lol

I wouldnt cut the cheat meals out at all if possible. I would get to the point where you plateau and then adjust the fats in the diet. But I would try to keep the cheat meal in for as long as possible so that A. you keep shocking the metabolism and B. you keep your body remembering how to digest carbs.

Ox
05-25-08, 12:12 pm
hey evan i know dave recommends to cut the carbs on the last meal (in the offseasson)
ever since i came off from keto believe it or not

my lean mass went from 159lbs to 168lbs

but
i am retaining water and gained fat too

i take my post workout shake (torrent)
at 6pm

then at seven i had a lean protein souce with greens, walnuts and rice
my last meal was at 10pm

but recently i stoppend the rice

my gut is not as bloated
problem is i dont wanna cut yet

do you think addin a fat burner will help me at least mantain that bf and not let it increase?
or should i forget about fat burners offseasson?

Forget abou the fat burners. At a lbm of 168 I'd say you need to focus on growing! Trust me...grow first...cuts later.

Ox
05-25-08, 12:13 pm
Hey Evan, just want to start by thanking you for all of the advice and guidance. I came across a training method called Cumulative Blood Volume Training...kinda reminds me of DC training mixed with High. Intensity. Training. Just wanted to get your opinion as I've tried working out this way to shock my muscles all this week and I've gotten a hell of a pump. Thanks again.

I don't know what it is...tell me about it.

krazyassmexican
05-25-08, 12:15 pm
Forget abou the fat burners. At a lbm of 168 I'd say you need to focus on growing! Trust me...grow first...cuts later.

but my body weiight is gone to 224 lol

Ox
05-25-08, 12:15 pm
Hey Ox. Thanks for the inspiration that you've brought to me man. It's really helped me become a whole lot bigger (Went from 125 to 158 in just a year) and gets me really motivated to learn as much as you do about nutrition and training.

I wanted to ask your advice about a cardio question that I have. Which one is better in your opinion, jump rope, or the tredmil? I like running, but I also enjoy jump rope and it's made me wonder which one has more of an effect on your body. I know that with a tredmil it's easier to burn calories, but I've read a lot of stuff about jump roping too. I just wanted to get your opinion on it since I've been wondering about this for the past week.

Thanks for any and all info man.
-Renji


Jumping rope is pretty bad ass if you can do it for a prolonged period of time...very difficult to do. Personally, I think that jumping rope mixed with treadmill workl would be an awesome idea. 5 minutes of jumping rope alternated with 5 minutes on the treadmill would be awesome.

Ox
05-25-08, 12:17 pm
but my body weiight is gone to 224 lol

Then you don't need to be having glycemic carbs like rice and torrent. I would switch your carb choices maybe. Keep in mind that muscle raises your metabolism dramatically and the more muscle you can put on the leaner you will stay.

krazyassmexican
05-25-08, 12:19 pm
Then you don't need to be having glycemic carbs like rice and torrent. I would switch your carb choices maybe. Keep in mind that muscle raises your metabolism dramatically and the more muscle you can put on the leaner you will stay.

rite now my carb sources are oats, ezekiel cereal, grits (20grams) and a red skin potatoe torrent is pwo and then i go with lean protein sources, greens and healthy fats (cashews, pb)

mikejones1
05-25-08, 1:13 pm
ox will you be attending the li(ny) abc in july? would be good to watch and learn and pick your brain if you got time.

Pizzalamp
05-25-08, 7:12 pm
Thanks evan...will happily keep the cheats in...lol

have a good Memorial day...enjoy a hot dog and some quinoia

BamBam
05-26-08, 7:14 pm
NO! That's a mistake that a lot of people make. You want to keep things in the ratio that they are. You don't want your protein to supercede your fat too much because your body may recognize protein as the more abundant energy source and tap into amino acids as it's primary energy source. Keep it the way it is.

Thanks bro! Very very helpful!

Joseb
05-27-08, 7:10 am
ox. do you reduce calories on keto?
i mean, i realize that the concept is that your body switches from carbs to fat as the primary fuel source. But i've been wondering if you also cut down your overall calorie intake. thanks alot

krazyassmexican
05-27-08, 9:20 am
ox. do you reduce calories on keto?
i mean, i realize that the concept is that your body switches from carbs to fat as the primary fuel source. But i've been wondering if you also cut down your overall calorie intake. thanks alot

ox's cuttin diet is his offseasson diet as well

the difference?

when he's bulkin
he eats carbs
when he cuts he just takes off the carbs of his diet

Coach Fowler
05-27-08, 10:31 am
I agree with Ox. I have my football players train on the jump rope for three minutes with a one minute break for 4 sets. They still have their regular workout to complete afterwards. I know it's not bodybuilding, but it keeps their overall bodyfat down to a reasonable level while they maximize their weight.

My goal: Getting guys impossibly large, to play impossibly hard, while running impossibly fast.

Joseb
05-27-08, 4:07 pm
ooh. so let me ask this. from pictures i can see that you stay pretty lean all year long.
but i think they may be misleading as they wanna show a good advertisement with you being lean and all. the way you bulk.. how lean do you stay on the offseason? [i needa stay pretty lean/fast because i play football]

Also. i did a search and all i found was questions on the season diet.
but during the bulk phase.. what do your macros look like? i mean.. you have zero carbs in the cutting diet.. how do you know how much you add in. thanks

B Con
05-27-08, 4:34 pm
Ox just wanted to say I enjoyed your MD article in the latest MD.. that part about you know you're a bodybuilder when was hilarious. solid stuff as always bro.

krazyassmexican
05-27-08, 5:13 pm
ooh. so let me ask this. from pictures i can see that you stay pretty lean all year long.
but i think they may be misleading as they wanna show a good advertisement with you being lean and all. the way you bulk.. how lean do you stay on the offseason? [i needa stay pretty lean/fast because i play football]

Also. i did a search and all i found was questions on the season diet.
but during the bulk phase.. what do your macros look like? i mean.. you have zero carbs in the cutting diet.. how do you know how much you add in. thanks

the ratio is 1:1:1 ox talked about it plenty of times in this thread

that means for each calorie of protein he eats he eats a calorie of carbs and a calorie of fat

bigbull52
05-27-08, 5:26 pm
Hey Ox, Run me through a complete day of your eating right now.... I kind of figured my contest diet to you, so I am curious to what you eat day in day out when your trying to add some solid mass to...

Ox
05-27-08, 5:45 pm
ooh. so let me ask this. from pictures i can see that you stay pretty lean all year long.
but i think they may be misleading as they wanna show a good advertisement with you being lean and all. the way you bulk.. how lean do you stay on the offseason? [i needa stay pretty lean/fast because i play football]

Also. i did a search and all i found was questions on the season diet.
but during the bulk phase.. what do your macros look like? i mean.. you have zero carbs in the cutting diet.. how do you know how much you add in. thanks

In the offseason I saty fairly lean. I hold quite a bit of water from eating a bunch of carbs. I don't know what BF % I am because I never get it checked. Maybe 10%??? I really have no idea. My offseason macros look like 350g protein, 350g carbs, 150g fat. Offseason I just do a 1:1:1 calorie ratio of all 3 macros. Easy.

Ox
05-27-08, 5:47 pm
Hey Ox, Run me through a complete day of your eating right now.... I kind of figured my contest diet to you, so I am curious to what you eat day in day out when your trying to add some solid mass to...

I do 350g protein, 350g carbs, 150g fat. This gets spread over 3 whole food meals and 3 shakes.

bigbull52
05-27-08, 5:52 pm
I do 350g protein, 350g carbs, 150g fat. This gets spread over 3 whole food meals and 3 shakes.

Good deal man..... Whenever you start this you weigh around 235 or so right?? so do all the grams stay the same when u start putting on the weight....like I know you get up to 280 or so...

Joseb
05-27-08, 7:03 pm
thanks to both of you guys. Krazy and Ox.

krazyassmexican
05-27-08, 7:23 pm
Good deal man..... Whenever you start this you weigh around 235 or so right?? so do all the grams stay the same when u start putting on the weight....like I know you get up to 280 or so...

last time we knew ox's contest weight was 270lbs not 235

bigbull52
05-27-08, 8:31 pm
last time we knew ox's contest weight was 270lbs not 235

he wasn't 270 at the USA's big guy

krazyassmexican
05-28-08, 8:03 am
he wasn't 270 at the USA's big guy

he has never competed on the usa's bro
you are confusin ox with someone else

bigbull52
05-28-08, 4:41 pm
he has never competed on the usa's bro
you are confusin ox with someone else

USA= NPC Nationals..... still not 270

krazyassmexican
05-28-08, 4:46 pm
USA= NPC Nationals..... still not 270

from what i remember the house was gonna compete at the usas

but ox never did
this is his contest history

2008

New England
Mens Bodybuilding: Guest Poser
Competition Photos

2007

National Bodybuilding & Fitness Championships
Men: Overall Winner (1st)
Men: Earned Pro Card (1st)
Men: Super Heavyweight (1st)
Competition Photos

Long Island Bodybuilding, Fitness & Figure Championships
Men: Guest Poser
Competition Photos

New England Bodybuilding, Fitness & Figure Championships
Men: Guest Posers (1st)
Competition Photos

2006

National Bodybuilding & Fitness Championships
Men: Super Heavyweight (2nd)
Competition Photos

Junior Nationals
Men: Overall Winner
Men: Super Heavyweight (1st)
Competition Photos

2005

Bev Francis Atlantic States Bodybuilding, Fitness & Figure Championships
Men: Overall Winner
Men: Super Heavyweight (1st)

houseofpain
05-28-08, 5:14 pm
Evan-
Where ya been at Gold's man? I haven't seen ya training in a while. Quick question for you though...

As you know I'm still young, 17, and an aspiring bodybuilder. My weight now is between 210-215 depending on when you weigh me. I'm thinking about doing your diet and cutting down my body fat to see what I'm working with, plus you said it makes your body super sensitive to nutrients, hence better growth on the next bulk. I don't think I have a lot of bodyfat, however I'm waiting to get it tested at the gym to find out what it actually is. If you want, I can post up some pictures in case you forgot exactly what I'm working with here.

Ox
05-28-08, 5:36 pm
Alright. You guys are fuckin' it all up...lol. Here it is:

2005 NPC Atlantic States- Heavyweight 1st and Overall 1st @ 225lbs
2006 NPC Jr. Nationals- Super Heavyweight 1st and Overall 1st @ 237 lbs
2006 NPC Nationals- Super Heavyweight 2nd @ 245 lbs
2007 NPC Nationals- Super Heavyweight 1st and Overall 1st @ 245.5 lbs

There you have it. And the USAs and the Nationals are two entirely different shows. At the Nationals, pro cards are awarded to EACH class winner. At the USAs, pro cards are awarded to the overall winner and the runner up in the overall.

Ox
05-28-08, 5:40 pm
Evan-
Where ya been at Gold's man? I haven't seen ya training in a while. Quick question for you though...

As you know I'm still young, 17, and an aspiring bodybuilder. My weight now is between 210-215 depending on when you weigh me. I'm thinking about doing your diet and cutting down my body fat to see what I'm working with, plus you said it makes your body super sensitive to nutrients, hence better growth on the next bulk. I don't think I have a lot of bodyfat, however I'm waiting to get it tested at the gym to find out what it actually is. If you want, I can post up some pictures in case you forgot exactly what I'm working with here.

I've seen you at Golds and I can tell by looking at you that you probably have a fair amount of bodyfat. That's not a bad thing especially if you're trying to grow. If your goal is to get as big as possible then I say keep growing. If you really feel as though you've plateaued and would benefit from strict dieting and a rebound then you can do that. But don't let the fact that summer is coming influence your judgment! We all want to cut when the weather gets nice. But fuck it, it's a process. It's not always gonna be pretty.

dannynb
05-28-08, 7:27 pm
But don't let the fact that summer is coming influence your judgment! We all want to cut when the weather gets nice. But fuck it, it's a process. It's not always gonna be pretty.

Damn skippy.....I'd love to be leaned out right now, but it's still growing time. I'll be nice and pealed come November when it'll be to damn cold out....LOL

B Con
05-28-08, 7:27 pm
I've seen you at Golds and I can tell by looking at you that you probably have a fair amount of bodyfat. That's not a bad thing especially if you're trying to grow. If your goal is to get as big as possible then I say keep growing. If you really feel as though you've plateaued and would benefit from strict dieting and a rebound then you can do that. But don't let the fact that summer is coming influence your judgment! We all want to cut when the weather gets nice. But fuck it, it's a process. It's not always gonna be pretty.

Damn good advice. Another reason why you are one of my fav bbers Evan.

krazyassmexican
05-28-08, 9:09 pm
alkalinized water, dave recommends to drink it while training

is it the same that sometimes they call it mineral water?

Ox
05-28-08, 10:26 pm
alkalinized water, dave recommends to drink it while training

is it the same that sometimes they call it mineral water?

I'm not sure Krazy but I do know that Dave has a system that filters and ionically changes and alkalizes the water that comes out of his tap. I would guess that some mineral waters (especially the European waters such as Evian and Acqua Panna) are slightly alkaline. I'm not positive though. Dave also reccomends that you supplement with coral calcium to address and issues regarding your acid/alakaline balance. Much cheaper and easier than buying all that bottled water and or a crazy filtration system. But personally, if I had the dough to blow I might buy the water filtration system. I've seen it...it's hot shit.

krazyassmexican
05-28-08, 10:29 pm
I'm not sure Krazy but I do know that Dave has a system that filters and ionically changes and alkalizes the water that comes out of his tap. I would guess that some mineral waters (especially the European waters such as Evian and Acqua Panna) are slightly alkaline. I'm not positive though. Dave also reccomends that you supplement with coral calcium to address and issues regarding your acid/alakaline balance. Much cheaper and easier than buying all that bottled water and or a crazy filtration system. But personally, if I had the dough to blow I might buy the water filtration system. I've seen it...it's hot shit.

i would have to ask him where he got it lol

so if i supplement with coral calcium
do i still need pak
or should i switch to coral calcium and juice plus?

also if i do that then i wont need the alkalized water?

Ox
05-29-08, 9:39 am
i would have to ask him where he got it lol

so if i supplement with coral calcium
do i still need pak
or should i switch to coral calcium and juice plus?

also if i do that then i wont need the alkalized water?

YOU ALWAYS NEED PAK! Damn you ARE Krazy. hahaha jk. The coral calcium is just a clacium supp used for it's alakalizing effect. I use juice plus but I don't feel it's good enough to use OVER Pak. I use it as an addition. But if I had to pick between the two, I would opt for Pak without thinking. If you use the coral calcium you do not need alkalized water. I'm pretty sure but you may want to ask Dave. He's never reccomeded that I drink alkalized water before.

krazyassmexican
05-29-08, 10:47 am
YOU ALWAYS NEED PAK! Damn you ARE Krazy. hahaha jk. The coral calcium is just a clacium supp used for it's alakalizing effect. I use juice plus but I don't feel it's good enough to use OVER Pak. I use it as an addition. But if I had to pick between the two, I would opt for Pak without thinking. If you use the coral calcium you do not need alkalized water. I'm pretty sure but you may want to ask Dave. He's never reccomeded that I drink alkalized water before.

alright, the last one

coral calcium should be used pre workout? or at any time?

houseofpain
05-29-08, 11:31 am
I've seen you at Golds and I can tell by looking at you that you probably have a fair amount of bodyfat. That's not a bad thing especially if you're trying to grow. If your goal is to get as big as possible then I say keep growing. If you really feel as though you've plateaued and would benefit from strict dieting and a rebound then you can do that. But don't let the fact that summer is coming influence your judgment! We all want to cut when the weather gets nice. But fuck it, it's a process. It's not always gonna be pretty.

Thanks Evan. I think I'm trying football this year as well. Hopefully, it'll help me drop some bodyfat and pack on some more muscle. See ya around.

Nick

Ag3ntSneaky
05-29-08, 4:22 pm
Ox, i want to say i appreciate all that your doing. Helping us out, answering our questions.

Im 18 years old, I've been interested in this life since i was 16. Im currently on a bulk right now and you probably could find a million things wrong with my diet/training. I just have two questions
1.)When you started bodybuilding did you feel like you were against a wall? You only found a support system in yourself? That is what im battling right now, all my friends and my family dont understand why i want to do this. They dont give me any support, my only true support is from you guys on this forum.
2.) How long did it take you to figure your body out? As far as diet, and training goes. Im in the process and it is a complete bitch

Appreciate all the help

APE
05-30-08, 8:15 pm
Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Meal 2: 1.5 scoops Universal Egg Protein, 1.5 Scoops Universal Specialized Protein for gaining lean Mass, 2 tbsp all natural peanut butter

Meal 3: 8 oz chicken, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: same as meal 2

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oli

Meal 6: same as meals 2+4

Is the 2 cups green salad u eat pretty much just bag salad from the grocery store without all that extra stuff added?

Joseb
05-30-08, 8:43 pm
ox. do you take anything [shakes, meals, etc] before you sleep to prevent loss of mass?

simpleguy
05-31-08, 12:03 am
ox. do you take anything [shakes, meals, etc] before you sleep to prevent loss of mass?

his last meal of the day comes before bed bro...

Ox
05-31-08, 10:51 am
Ox, i want to say i appreciate all that your doing. Helping us out, answering our questions.

Im 18 years old, I've been interested in this life since i was 16. Im currently on a bulk right now and you probably could find a million things wrong with my diet/training. I just have two questions
1.)When you started bodybuilding did you feel like you were against a wall? You only found a support system in yourself? That is what im battling right now, all my friends and my family dont understand why i want to do this. They dont give me any support, my only true support is from you guys on this forum.
2.) How long did it take you to figure your body out? As far as diet, and training goes. Im in the process and it is a complete bitch

Appreciate all the help

1. When I started, I never felt against a wall but I know where you're coming from. No matter how far you take it, you're always gonna have to deal with the fact that most people aren't going to understand what you need to do to be successful in your endeavor. But it's up to you to educate them. And ultimately, it's up to you to push yourself. Your own drive and desire should be more than enough to outweigh any lack of support or even any negativity. In the very beggining, I really had none. I received a lot of criticism and that was about it. Didn't matter.

2. I don't think I would say I've figured my body out. It would take many lifetimes over to figure out what was BEST FOR YOU. You can only do what you think is best. That takes time. You've just gotta pay attention to how you feel when you throw in different variables and make your decisions based on that.

Ox
05-31-08, 10:52 am
Meal 1: 6 Whole eggs (Eggland's Best)

Is the 2 cups green salad u eat pretty much just bag salad from the grocery store without all that extra stuff added?

Bagged salad is gross and harbors bacteria. Buy the regular stuff. 2 cups of romaine, iceberg, or spinach.

Ox
05-31-08, 10:56 am
ox. do you take anything [shakes, meals, etc] before you sleep to prevent loss of mass?

I have my last meal a minimum of one hour before bed. Two hours is preferable. Going to bed on a full stomach screws up my sleep. Besides, you will not lose mass in your sleep. You may wake up lighter but that's just water loss. If I go to bed and weigh 293 I can expect to wake up at 288 after I pee a couples time over night and wake up and take a shit. The 5 lb difference is not muscle loss! Just relax and go to bed.

simpleguy
05-31-08, 2:20 pm
hey Ox, quick question bro... Spain is a mediterranean country as you know

so, spanish extra virgin olive oil, good to go?

Ox
05-31-08, 8:42 pm
hey Ox, quick question bro... Spain is a mediterranean country as you know

so, spanish extra virgin olive oil, good to go?

If that's all that you can get it's okay. But Italian olive oil is undoubtedly the best and Greek olive oil coming in second. I just don't think Spanish olive oil is as good as Italian or Greek but it will do just fine. I'm just picky.

BamBam
05-31-08, 8:45 pm
Hey bro...what cheat meals do you have on your KETO diet? Got any favs? I saw where Palumbo was talking about having a cheat MEAL (not day) once a week, 2 weeks after you are into the diet to get your metabolism jacked back up and keep your body used to digesting carbs, etc. But, I just found this out so this week I am going to have my first cheat meal, so any ideas on whats good to have without going overborad so to speak? J/W bro. Hope you r donig good bro...

How's the "offseason" coming? Any particular goals besides getting bigger and stronger?

IN IRON,
BB

SizeMatters
06-01-08, 9:14 am
whats up big ox i just wanted to say your my favorite bodybbuilder and i look up to you very much.......that being said i saw this and just figured id throw some fucking fuel on the fire for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EykOflYNp8k

simpleguy
06-01-08, 10:41 am
whats up big ox i just wanted to say your my favorite bodybbuilder and i look up to you very much.......that being said i saw this and just figured id throw some fucking fuel on the fire for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EykOflYNp8k

what does this vid have to do with Ox?

SizeMatters
06-01-08, 10:46 am
just me thinking ahead dude... id lvoe to see the two of them one day for the olympia

simpleguy
06-01-08, 12:14 pm
just me thinking ahead dude... id lvoe to see the two of them one day for the olympia

I know I was being a dick as well, but what I mean is that I doubt Ox's goals are related to his stage opponents, he probably thinks how to better himself rather than how to be better than others

Ox
06-01-08, 2:03 pm
Hey bro...what cheat meals do you have on your KETO diet? Got any favs? I saw where Palumbo was talking about having a cheat MEAL (not day) once a week, 2 weeks after you are into the diet to get your metabolism jacked back up and keep your body used to digesting carbs, etc. But, I just found this out so this week I am going to have my first cheat meal, so any ideas on whats good to have without going overborad so to speak? J/W bro. Hope you r donig good bro...

How's the "offseason" coming? Any particular goals besides getting bigger and stronger?

IN IRON,
BB

For me, sushi was my favorite cheat meal. I would make sure I ordered extra rice and shoot for 150-200g of carbs. Then I'd have a couple candy bars for desert. My offseason is going well. I was 290 on the dot this morning after I woke up and took a leak. My strenght is good and I feel like I'm growing...all is well.

Ag3ntSneaky
06-01-08, 3:01 pm
Ox, i just wanna say keep up the hard work. It truly shows bro, you look great man.

ROC1291
06-01-08, 4:03 pm
Bagged salad is gross and harbors bacteria. Buy the regular stuff. 2 cups of romaine, iceberg, or spinach.

I always thought ox purchased that organic greens box of mix that they sell in whole foods or costco.
It's got a bunch of different organic greens like spinach, baby romaine, red leaf, i can't even begin to name them all.

BamBam
06-01-08, 4:37 pm
For me, sushi was my favorite cheat meal. I would make sure I ordered extra rice and shoot for 150-200g of carbs. Then I'd have a couple candy bars for desert. My offseason is going well. I was 290 on the dot this morning after I woke up and took a leak. My strenght is good and I feel like I'm growing...all is well.

DAMN good to hear brother about the offseason. How tall are you btw? I met ya at the Classic and you were about my height or maybe taller. I only ask because at 6'4" people have told me I need to be bigger (like between 275-300 lbs) to really fill out my frame. But,we shal see.

Thanks for the help on the cheat meal ideas and sushi sounds good to me!

IN IRON,
BB

J Wong
06-01-08, 8:24 pm
When I begin my bulk after this keto diet, do I immediately add all the carbs I will usually eat during my bulk? Or do I gradually add them over the week?

Fighter26
06-02-08, 10:14 am
Sup Ox.
Thanks again for sharing your advice - you one in a million.
Started training with a new partner who is hell bent on keeping training sessions short (for intensity) I'm all for that but in order to do this we only do two sets per exercise and the usual 10-12 reps.
Is 2 sets enough?

mustgetbig
06-02-08, 3:40 pm
hey ox could you check my diet for me thanks in advance

6am-animal cuts,bcaa stak
6:15am-45min low intensity cardio
7am-2cans tuna ,1tbsp evoo ,pak , fish oil
10am-1can tuna, 2tbsp evoo
12pm-animal cuts
1pm-1can tuna,2tbsp evoo, fish oil
4pm-2can tuna, 1tbsp evoo
4:15pm-m-stak
5pm-6:15pm-workout
6:15pm-nitro,45min low intensity cardio
7pm-2cans tuna,1tbsp evoo
8pm-flex
9:15pm-2cans tuna,1 tbsp evoo



my lbm is 180lbs
and my macros are 270grams protein,112 grams fat,0 carbs

right now my weight is 240lbs with 25% bf

thanks

Ox
06-02-08, 8:57 pm
Ox, i just wanna say keep up the hard work. It truly shows bro, you look great man.

Hey buddy I really appreciate that.

Ox
06-02-08, 8:59 pm
I always thought ox purchased that organic greens box of mix that they sell in whole foods or costco.
It's got a bunch of different organic greens like spinach, baby romaine, red leaf, i can't even begin to name them all.

Nope. I shop at a no frills Asian owned grocery store called Food World. The produce is tremendous and everything moves so quickly that the freshness and the price are unbeatable. There is a also a wide variety of ethnic foods that you may not find in typical supermarkets. I love it.

Ox
06-02-08, 9:00 pm
When I begin my bulk after this keto diet, do I immediately add all the carbs I will usually eat during my bulk? Or do I gradually add them over the week?

Just add em in and enjoy. Don't worry if you are a little bloated or watery at first...it will subside.

Reacher34
06-02-08, 9:01 pm
290 after the morning piss?!?! I know for me thats like a pound or two in water weight right there (just kidding of course)! I can not wait to see your pro debut Ox! The future is near!

Best of luck to you, though luck has nothing to do with it.

Ox
06-02-08, 9:04 pm
Sup Ox.
Thanks again for sharing your advice - you one in a million.
Started training with a new partner who is hell bent on keeping training sessions short (for intensity) I'm all for that but in order to do this we only do two sets per exercise and the usual 10-12 reps.
Is 2 sets enough?

One in a million!..damn that's pretty good! hahaha thanks bro. Is 2 sets enough? I guess it depends on how many exercises you do. But then again, guys like Dorian have succesfully utilized high intesity principles and done very low volume. Me, personally, I like volume. But anything can work for any number of people. Give it a try. If you grow and it works, thank your training partner for sharing his highly effective methods with you. If you shrink, tell him you told him it would never work and beat the crap out of em.

bobbymart
06-02-08, 9:07 pm
One in a million!..damn that's pretty good! hahaha thanks bro. Is 2 sets enough? I guess it depends on how many exercises you do. But then again, guys like Dorian have succesfully utilized high intesity principles and done very low volume. Me, personally, I like volume. But anything can work for any number of people. Give it a try. If you grow and it works, thank your training partner for sharing his highly effective methods with you. If you shrink, tell him you told him it would never work and beat the crap out of em.

awsome advice!...lol

G Diesel
06-02-08, 9:17 pm
Yo Ev, I was reading your MD column (as I do religiously) and you talked about using Nitro and an unforeseen consequence when it comes to postworkout nutrition--EAAs impacting insulin. I use a couple packs PWO with my Torrent and as you told me you use "a shitload". Talk to me about EAAs and insulin, brosephus. Thanks for using your knowledge to help us all improve. Peace, G

Fury317
06-03-08, 10:04 am
Whats up Evan, first off 290 first thing is the morning is INSANE, but I believe it after seeing you train at Worlds the weekend of the Arnold. Damn man, youre gonna do big things.

Anyways, I was just curious what you do for your core training- abs especially? I thing my core strength needs to be brought up, I can feel it lacking doing squats and other exercises. Any tips? Thanks man.

simpleguy
06-03-08, 10:59 am
hey Ox, was wondering about the cheat meal on the keto... I know there is nothing set in stone but what limit of carbs could you estimate for a 200lb guy?

Fighter26
06-03-08, 11:48 pm
One in a million!..damn that's pretty good! hahaha thanks bro. Is 2 sets enough? I guess it depends on how many exercises you do. But then again, guys like Dorian have succesfully utilized high intesity principles and done very low volume. Me, personally, I like volume. But anything can work for any number of people. Give it a try. If you grow and it works, thank your training partner for sharing his highly effective methods with you. If you shrink, tell him you told him it would never work and beat the crap out of em.

Thanks bro. When I'm in America (I live in South Africa) I'm come to your shows and sit in the "Centopani Fan Club Area" and root for the big man. Sweet

Ox
06-04-08, 11:41 am
Yo Ev, I was reading your MD column (as I do religiously) and you talked about using Nitro and an unforeseen consequence when it comes to postworkout nutrition--EAAs impacting insulin. I use a couple packs PWO with my Torrent and as you told me you use "a shitload". Talk to me about EAAs and insulin, brosephus. Thanks for using your knowledge to help us all improve. Peace, G

Let's start at the beggining:

BCAAs as well as EAAs have been shown, even in the absence of carbohydrates to increase blood insulin levels. However this doesn't necessarily mean that glucose disporal rate is increased and without carbs you'd be left in insulin shock. Interestingly, in the absence of carbs, BCAAs + EAAs increase HGH levels and blood levels of nitrogen. This is great news for someone who is dieting.

Now, if you're not dieting (this is the fun part) BCAAs + EAAs + Glucose (carbs) = HUGE insulin release. I've read that simply ingesting carbs + aminos but without the BCAA leucine will spike insulin about 60% vs. a 220% spike with leucine! Leucine being the most easily oxidized BCAA means a quick and efficient spike in insulin.

Why is the insulin spike so important? We know insulin is the most anabolic hormone but why? Insulin starts a SERIES of reactions called a cascade which ultimately ends with protein synthesis and NEW MUSCLE!

So now, back to Nitro + Torrent. What do we have? Nitro is all your BCAAs + EAAs (except tryptophan is swapped for arginine...a smart trade) and on top of that they're in an uncoupled form. Ready to go. Then you've got Torrent. Let's break it down in light of the above: an 8g blend of various leucine esters, 3g of creatine esters, and 52g of carbs coming predominantly from Glucose and Waxy Maize.

In essence, ingesting Nitro during and after the workout "primes" the body by elevating plasma levels of nitrogen, growth hormone and insulin. Then, adding Torrent to the mix (the glucose + leucine combo) makes for a perfect chemistry by sendign insulin levels through the roof which then leads to protein synthesis = recovery and new muscle growth. It's a fuckin' dynamite combo.

krazyassmexican
06-04-08, 11:45 am
Let's start at the beggining:

BCAAs as well as EAAs have been shown, even in the absence of carbohydrates to increase blood insulin levels. However this doesn't necessarily mean that glucose disporal rate is increased and without carbs you'd be left in insulin shock. Interestingly, in the absence of carbs, BCAAs + EAAs increase HGH levels and blood levels of nitrogen. This is great news for someone who is dieting.

Now, if you're not dieting (this is the fun part) BCAAs + EAAs + Glucose (carbs) = HUGE insulin release. I've read that simply ingesting carbs + aminos but without the BCAA leucine will spike insulin about 60% vs. a 220% spike with leucine! Leucine being the most easily oxidized BCAA means a quick and efficient spike in insulin.

Why is the insulin spike so important? We know insulin is the most anabolic hormone but why? Insulin starts a SERIES of reactions called a cascade which ultimately ends with protein synthesis and NEW MUSCLE!

So now, back to Nitro + Torrent. What do we have? Nitro is all your BCAAs + EAAs (except tryptophan is swapped for arginine...a smart trade) and on top of that they're in an uncoupled form. Ready to go. Then you've got Torrent. Let's break it down in light of the above: an 8g blend of various leucine esters, 3g of creatine esters, and 52g of carbs coming predominantly from Glucose and Waxy Maize.

In essence, ingesting Nitro during and after the workout "primes" the body by elevating plasma levels of nitrogen, growth hormone and insulin. Then, adding Torrent to the mix (the glucose + leucine combo) makes for a perfect chemistry by sendign insulin levels through the roof which then leads to protein synthesis = recovery and new muscle growth. It's a fuckin' dynamite combo.

after reading this...

that means that what i do is extremly anabolic?

(i drink nitro with my torrent)

Ox
06-04-08, 11:46 am
Whats up Evan, first off 290 first thing is the morning is INSANE, but I believe it after seeing you train at Worlds the weekend of the Arnold. Damn man, youre gonna do big things.

Anyways, I was just curious what you do for your core training- abs especially? I thing my core strength needs to be brought up, I can feel it lacking doing squats and other exercises. Any tips? Thanks man.

Thanks man. Core training huh? Well I have this ball that I use and I do squats standing on one foot on this balancing board and then I crawl across the gym floor...nope just kidding...hahaha. I train my abs once a week just like every other bodypart doing 12-16 sets of various exercises. But I think a lot of core stability comes from doing squats, deads, lunges. I also don't wear or even own a belt. I'm not advocating not using one but I never got used to wearing one so I think things had no choice but to get stronger...if you wear a belt I would save it only for when you need it.

5150
06-04-08, 11:46 am
Let's start at the beggining:

BCAAs as well as EAAs have been shown, even in the absence of carbohydrates to increase blood insulin levels. However this doesn't necessarily mean that glucose disporal rate is increased and without carbs you'd be left in insulin shock. Interestingly, in the absence of carbs, BCAAs + EAAs increase HGH levels and blood levels of nitrogen. This is great news for someone who is dieting.

Now, if you're not dieting (this is the fun part) BCAAs + EAAs + Glucose (carbs) = HUGE insulin release. I've read that simply ingesting carbs + aminos but without the BCAA leucine will spike insulin about 60% vs. a 220% spike with leucine! Leucine being the most easily oxidized BCAA means a quick and efficient spike in insulin.

Why is the insulin spike so important? We know insulin is the most anabolic hormone but why? Insulin starts a SERIES of reactions called a cascade which ultimately ends with protein synthesis and NEW MUSCLE!

So now, back to Nitro + Torrent. What do we have? Nitro is all your BCAAs + EAAs (except tryptophan is swapped for arginine...a smart trade) and on top of that they're in an uncoupled form. Ready to go. Then you've got Torrent. Let's break it down in light of the above: an 8g blend of various leucine esters, 3g of creatine esters, and 52g of carbs coming predominantly from Glucose and Waxy Maize.

In essence, ingesting Nitro during and after the workout "primes" the body by elevating plasma levels of nitrogen, growth hormone and insulin. Then, adding Torrent to the mix (the glucose + leucine combo) makes for a perfect chemistry by sendign insulin levels through the roof which then leads to protein synthesis = recovery and new muscle growth. It's a fuckin' dynamite combo.


Wow!!!!!.... Thanks a lot Ev for all the great info!! Hopping on my fav mail order site now to order some nitro lol.

Phil

Ox
06-04-08, 11:46 am
hey Ox, was wondering about the cheat meal on the keto... I know there is nothing set in stone but what limit of carbs could you estimate for a 200lb guy?

I wouldn't go over 300g grams...if you can eat that much.

Ox
06-04-08, 11:48 am
Wow!!!!!.... Thanks a lot Ev for all the great info!! Hopping on my fav mail order site now to order some nitro lol.

Phil

Nitro is the shit. They're by far the best aminos on the market.

Fury317
06-04-08, 11:57 am
Thanks man. Core training huh? Well I have this ball that I use and I do squats standing on one foot on this balancing board and then I crawl across the gym floor...nope just kidding...hahaha. I train my abs once a week just like every other bodypart doing 12-16 sets of various exercises. But I think a lot of core stability comes from doing squats, deads, lunges. I also don't wear or even own a belt. I'm not advocating not using one but I never got used to wearing one so I think things had no choice but to get stronger...if you wear a belt I would save it only for when you need it.

Haha I was trying to picture all this shit and then I got the just kidding part. You got me. Alright man, I do tend to wear a belt due to past hernia surgeries (just a mental thing I guess), but Im going to try to ween off of it. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Also, reading that info on Nitro and Torrent was awesome. What was your major in college? Im a third year exercise science major and I want to be able to pound out info that like in the near future (have about 2 yrs til graduation). The post was really good info and really interesting. You know your stuff man.

IRONADDICT45
06-04-08, 12:05 pm
hey evan, just had a quick question for ya...ive been training my boy for this natural BB show coming up soon June 28th...and ive had him on keto and its been working great, just curious about the bets possible carb up/fat load...or any other ideas you have for the day of the show...last year we carb loaded him a little too much and he spilled over a little bit, thanks for your adivce man, keep doin what youre doin

krazyassmexican
06-04-08, 12:10 pm
Haha I was trying to picture all this shit and then I got the just kidding part. You got me. Alright man, I do tend to wear a belt due to past hernia surgeries (just a mental thing I guess), but Im going to try to ween off of it. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Also, reading that info on Nitro and Torrent was awesome. What was your major in college? Im a third year exercise science major and I want to be able to pound out info that like in the near future (have about 2 yrs til graduation). The post was really good info and really interesting. You know your stuff man.

believe me when i tell you, i was reading it and when he mentioned the world i squat i stopped there and wondered if he squatted his body weight or with a barbell loaded lol

basketcase
06-04-08, 12:11 pm
Let's start at the beggining:

BCAAs as well as EAAs have been shown, even in the absence of carbohydrates to increase blood insulin levels. However this doesn't necessarily mean that glucose disporal rate is increased and without carbs you'd be left in insulin shock. Interestingly, in the absence of carbs, BCAAs + EAAs increase HGH levels and blood levels of nitrogen. This is great news for someone who is dieting.

Now, if you're not dieting (this is the fun part) BCAAs + EAAs + Glucose (carbs) = HUGE insulin release. I've read that simply ingesting carbs + aminos but without the BCAA leucine will spike insulin about 60% vs. a 220% spike with leucine! Leucine being the most easily oxidized BCAA means a quick and efficient spike in insulin.

Why is the insulin spike so important? We know insulin is the most anabolic hormone but why? Insulin starts a SERIES of reactions called a cascade which ultimately ends with protein synthesis and NEW MUSCLE!

So now, back to Nitro + Torrent. What do we have? Nitro is all your BCAAs + EAAs (except tryptophan is swapped for arginine...a smart trade) and on top of that they're in an uncoupled form. Ready to go. Then you've got Torrent. Let's break it down in light of the above: an 8g blend of various leucine esters, 3g of creatine esters, and 52g of carbs coming predominantly from Glucose and Waxy Maize.

In essence, ingesting Nitro during and after the workout "primes" the body by elevating plasma levels of nitrogen, growth hormone and insulin. Then, adding Torrent to the mix (the glucose + leucine combo) makes for a perfect chemistry by sendign insulin levels through the roof which then leads to protein synthesis = recovery and new muscle growth. It's a fuckin' dynamite combo.

So for someone who is trying to cut a substantial amount of body fat nitro/torrent wouldn't be a good idea?

Reacher34
06-04-08, 12:43 pm
Ox, I've been sipping Universal EAA Nitro (Nitro G) before and during my workout. Then immediately post workout I drink a mixture of 70g waxy maize, creatine, a serving of Universal EAA Stack, and a serving of Universal BCAA Stack. Then 20-30 mins later I drink 48g whey protein and a bowl of oatmeal.

Is there any benefit of using Animal Nitro instead of the EAA Nitro and the two Amino Stacks? In terms of mechanism of delivery or absorption?

Also, I'm weighing 230-235lbs right now. There is 35 grams of dextrose in EAA Nitro, plus the 70 grams waxy maize. At my size, keeping in mind that I'm on a perpetual bulk, do you think I could benefit from more carbs surrounding my workout?

Ox
06-04-08, 1:47 pm
Haha I was trying to picture all this shit and then I got the just kidding part. You got me. Alright man, I do tend to wear a belt due to past hernia surgeries (just a mental thing I guess), but Im going to try to ween off of it. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Also, reading that info on Nitro and Torrent was awesome. What was your major in college? Im a third year exercise science major and I want to be able to pound out info that like in the near future (have about 2 yrs til graduation). The post was really good info and really interesting. You know your stuff man.

Believe it or not I was a sociology major...great to see I'm putting that to good use hahaha. Glad you found the post informative. Peace.

Ox
06-04-08, 1:50 pm
hey evan, just had a quick question for ya...ive been training my boy for this natural BB show coming up soon June 28th...and ive had him on keto and its been working great, just curious about the bets possible carb up/fat load...or any other ideas you have for the day of the show...last year we carb loaded him a little too much and he spilled over a little bit, thanks for your adivce man, keep doin what youre doin

I feel that if he is lean enough he can incorporate carbs twice per week. One meal on Monday night add 75g and one meal on Thursday night add 75g. Then one week out from the show eliminate those extra carbs and two days before the show, add carbs with each meal. The amount depends on his size, fullness, and his conditioning. There is no set plan for carbing up...it's highly individual.

Ox
06-04-08, 1:51 pm
So for someone who is trying to cut a substantial amount of body fat nitro/torrent wouldn't be a good idea?

Nitro yes. Torrent no.

Ox
06-04-08, 1:53 pm
Ox, I've been sipping Universal EAA Nitro (Nitro G) before and during my workout. Then immediately post workout I drink a mixture of 70g waxy maize, creatine, a serving of Universal EAA Stack, and a serving of Universal BCAA Stack. Then 20-30 mins later I drink 48g whey protein and a bowl of oatmeal.

Is there any benefit of using Animal Nitro instead of the EAA Nitro and the two Amino Stacks? In terms of mechanism of delivery or absorption?

Also, I'm weighing 230-235lbs right now. There is 35 grams of dextrose in EAA Nitro, plus the 70 grams waxy maize. At my size, keeping in mind that I'm on a perpetual bulk, do you think I could benefit from more carbs surrounding my workout?

I'd say what you're doing is very solid. The amount of carbs you are taking in around your workout would be enough for me but I don't need a ton. It depends on your metabolism. Try adding more if you feel you need it. If you just get fat then you know you don't need it.

Reacher34
06-04-08, 2:03 pm
I'd say what you're doing is very solid. The amount of carbs you are taking in around your workout would be enough for me but I don't need a ton. It depends on your metabolism. Try adding more if you feel you need it. If you just get fat then you know you don't need it.

Thanks, I'll experiment and figure it out.

I think you missed my first question tho:
"Is there any benefit of using Animal Nitro instead of the EAA Nitro and the two Amino Stacks? In terms of mechanism of delivery or absorption?"

simpleguy
06-04-08, 2:13 pm
Thanks, I'll experiment and figure it out.

I think you missed my first question tho:
"Is there any benefit of using Animal Nitro instead of the EAA Nitro and the two Amino Stacks? In terms of mechanism of delivery or absorption?"

I think he meant it's good to keep having eaa nitro due to the dextrose

Reacher34
06-04-08, 3:02 pm
I think he meant it's good to keep having eaa nitro due to the dextrose

You may be right, but I'd like to hear a definitive answer instead of just inferring it. Ox, if that IS what you meant, sorry to ask it again.

I ask this question because in Nitro's description in the Shop, it says the aminos form a bolus that effectively lets it bypass the liver. My previous understanding was that anything you ingest is succeptible to the "hepatic first pass". However, if I'm wrong and Nitro can bypass the liver without losing any of it's value, it might be more beneficial to me to take Nitro pre-workout with a small (35g) serving of waxy maize instead of the EAA Nitro.

rbh84
06-04-08, 3:13 pm
I am going to copy and try this keto diet and this is what I am going to keep it at until I feel the affects. I way about 230 so I upped the protein intake. All the cardio you see it going to be light walking, not running at all. I think I am going to put maybe one more rest day in the middle of my week. I am doing this to shred fat and put on more lean mass...the only thing I am afraid of is loosing my mass I already worked so hard for.

What do you think OX? Will this work?

Meal 1: 4 whole eggs

Meal 2: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Meal 3: 8 oz Salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oil

Meal 6: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Workout routine


Mon 60 min cardio, Legs

Tues 30 min cardio, chest, tris

Wed 60 min cardio, shoulders

Thurs 30 min cardio, back, bis

Fri 60 min cardio, Legs

Sat 60 min cardio (bike), Abs

Sun

rbh84
06-04-08, 3:23 pm
By the way I am 23 years old(turning 24 in 3 months), 230 is my weight, 5'9 tall..I know I have 166 pounds in lean mass. That may have jumped up maybe 10 or 5 pounds in the last 5 months (since being introduced to ANIMAL PAK)...

I have about 55 pounds of fat more or less. Its around there. Its been five months since I got my BF test and those are results from a doctor. Oh... an extra vital thing to know...I sit at work all day long on the computer so my heart is resting pretty much the whole time. I do cardio in the morning before work and then lift after work.

mustgetbig
06-04-08, 7:33 pm
hey ox do you think i should add 2 extra doses of nitro to my supps or m-stak and creatine? thanx

Ox
06-04-08, 8:53 pm
I am going to copy and try this keto diet and this is what I am going to keep it at until I feel the affects. I way about 230 so I upped the protein intake. All the cardio you see it going to be light walking, not running at all. I think I am going to put maybe one more rest day in the middle of my week. I am doing this to shred fat and put on more lean mass...the only thing I am afraid of is loosing my mass I already worked so hard for.

What do you think OX? Will this work?

Meal 1: 4 whole eggs

Meal 2: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Meal 3: 8 oz Salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1/2 cup raw almonds

Meal 4: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Meal 5: 8 oz salmon, 2 cups green salad, 1tbsp olive oil

Meal 6: 2 scoop Whey protein, 1 servings pasteurized egg whites, 1 table spoon natty PB

Workout routine


Mon 60 min cardio, Legs

Tues 30 min cardio, chest, tris

Wed 60 min cardio, shoulders

Thurs 30 min cardio, back, bis

Fri 60 min cardio, Legs

Sat 60 min cardio (bike), Abs

Sun


Looks good to me. You may need to eliminate or add food depending on your metabolism. You're 230 pretty much the same as I eat when dieting and coming down from 290. Remember, macro calculations are based on LEAN BODY MASS. 230 would mean 230 lbs of all muscle and no fat.

Ox
06-04-08, 8:55 pm
By the way I am 23 years old(turning 24 in 3 months), 230 is my weight, 5'9 tall..I know I have 166 pounds in lean mass. That may have jumped up maybe 10 or 5 pounds in the last 5 months (since being introduced to ANIMAL PAK)...

I have about 55 pounds of fat more or less. Its around there. Its been five months since I got my BF test and those are results from a doctor. Oh... an extra vital thing to know...I sit at work all day long on the computer so my heart is resting pretty much the whole time. I do cardio in the morning before work and then lift after work.

Then that's definitely too much food.

Ox
06-04-08, 8:56 pm
hey ox do you think i should add 2 extra doses of nitro to my supps or m-stak and creatine? thanx

If you don't already have it in there then yes 100%.

mustgetbig
06-04-08, 8:57 pm
If you don't already have it in there then yes 100%.

right now ive only got 1 dose of nitro per day

Ox
06-04-08, 9:00 pm
You may be right, but I'd like to hear a definitive answer instead of just inferring it. Ox, if that IS what you meant, sorry to ask it again.

I ask this question because in Nitro's description in the Shop, it says the aminos form a bolus that effectively lets it bypass the liver. My previous understanding was that anything you ingest is succeptible to the "hepatic first pass". However, if I'm wrong and Nitro can bypass the liver without losing any of it's value, it might be more beneficial to me to take Nitro pre-workout with a small (35g) serving of waxy maize instead of the EAA Nitro.

I'm not sure if I'm screwing it up but what's EAA Nitro? Do you mean EAA Stack? If so, then yes, Nitro is, in my opinion, superior to EAA Stack and yes, I would replace it with Nitro. I WOULD REPLACE ALL AMINO SUPPS WITH NITRO. Unless of course you are supplementing a meal with aminos in hopes of rounding out the amino profile. In that case, I don't know that uncoupled aminos would help (need to be on an empty stomach).

basketcase
06-04-08, 9:04 pm
I'm not sure if I'm screwing it up but what's EAA Nitro? Do you mean EAA Stack? If so, then yes, Nitro is, in my opinion, superior to EAA Stack and yes, I would replace it with Nitro. I WOULD REPLACE ALL AMINO SUPPS WITH NITRO. Unless of course you are supplementing a meal with aminos in hopes of rounding out the amino profile. In that case, I don't know that uncoupled aminos would help (need to be on an empty stomach).

Sorry for the ignorant question, but does it make sense to take EAA Stack or Nitro on days you don't lift? Take it also on days I'm doing Cardio or on an off day? This would be on a cut.

Reacher34
06-04-08, 9:29 pm
I'm not sure if I'm screwing it up but what's EAA Nitro? Do you mean EAA Stack? If so, then yes, Nitro is, in my opinion, superior to EAA Stack and yes, I would replace it with Nitro. I WOULD REPLACE ALL AMINO SUPPS WITH NITRO. Unless of course you are supplementing a meal with aminos in hopes of rounding out the amino profile. In that case, I don't know that uncoupled aminos would help (need to be on an empty stomach).

"Universal EAA Nitro" is the old "Animal Nitro G" in bulk powder form instead of paks of powder.

It's different from EAA stack (which I take in the postworkout shake) in that it contains 35g of dextrose... and tastes amazing. However, I trust your opinion and after this tub runs out, I'll get me some good old fashioned NITRO. Thanks.

Ox
06-05-08, 11:01 am
"Universal EAA Nitro" is the old "Animal Nitro G" in bulk powder form instead of paks of powder.

It's different from EAA stack (which I take in the postworkout shake) in that it contains 35g of dextrose... and tastes amazing. However, I trust your opinion and after this tub runs out, I'll get me some good old fashioned NITRO. Thanks.

Oh my bad. I knew here was a new bulk nitgro powder but I didn't know it was called EAA Nitro. In all honesty, I would still opt for plain Nitro as aminos taken on an empty stomach will elevate HGH levels more so than in the presence of carbs and between the eleveated hgh and the elevated insulin, a "priming" takes place and when you slam your Torrent the magic happens.

Ox
06-05-08, 11:02 am
Sorry for the ignorant question, but does it make sense to take EAA Stack or Nitro on days you don't lift? Take it also on days I'm doing Cardio or on an off day? This would be on a cut.

If you do cardio on your days off and you are very depleted then I'd say yes. Otherwise, I'd save it for training days.

Ox
06-05-08, 11:03 am
right now ive only got 1 dose of nitro per day

I would def bump it to two.

Giant Killer
06-05-08, 11:11 am
Ox, first thanks for all the quality advice you dispense here for our Forvm. Takin' time out for the little guy, so to speak.

My question is regarding one of your tips in the "Blueprint for Biceps" inset in last months MD (June) in your section. "Train biceps once a week by themselves."

When/if you have done this, how did it fall in your training split? I have trouble with the mind/muscle connection with my biceps, and among your other suggestions, I think this strategy may help. I generally train Bis with Back.

krazyassmexican
06-05-08, 11:30 am
Ox, first thanks for all the quality advice you dispense here for our Forvm. Takin' time out for the little guy, so to speak.

My question is regarding one of your tips in the "Blueprint for Biceps" inset in last months MD (June) in your section. "Train biceps once a week by themselves."

When/if you have done this, how did it fall in your training split? I have trouble with the mind/muscle connection with my biceps, and among your other suggestions, I think this strategy may help. I generally train Bis with Back.

we have the same problem
my biceps are embarasing

dannynb
06-05-08, 12:59 pm
Ox...hey bro, sorry to beat this question like a dead horse but you say to take Nitro on an empty stomach....which I understand after yor workout....but why are others sayingto take it with some sort of simple carb?? Won't that affect the uptake of the amino's and not raise hgh and insulin as you stated above like taking it on an empty stomach? So I need to to back to taking it by itself with my water....like I said I don't meant to beat this like a dead horse.

Northeasterner
06-05-08, 2:06 pm
What's up Ox, I'd really appreciate your professional feedback...

Can cardio, for fat loss, be incorporated into Training Routine #3 without damaging mass gain?

I've been working out with a goal of fat loss since early March. Diet has been solid if not superstrict. I have done weights continuously (in fact, I am lifting as heavy as I have ever lifted) and do cardio 3-5 times a week. Thanks to Animal Cuts (which I'm taking a 3rd cycle of right now) I have lost more than 10 lbs since I started.

I know everyone says you can't built mass and lose fat at the same time, but I have definitely lost some fat and I have gotten more toned. My back muscles are definitely bigger and thicker. I am as strong as ever and I am definitely thinner. I'm encouraged at my larger musculature AND having less fat/flab.

Secondly, how long should I stick w/ Routine #3?

Thanks a lot Ox, looking forward to your reply.

PS: I have a brand-new container of M-Stak I'm about to start. I used one cycle of M-Stak and it definitely made me look more cut AND thicker. I like it.

rbh84
06-05-08, 5:14 pm
Hey ox, got another question...1 day a week I am suppose to carb up. I am not a believer in pizza or other junk food for this important time. What would you eat for a carb up? Like fruits and pasta, wheat bread? Another thing is when is the right time and for how long do you carb up. I hear people say a day and half. Others say one meal in that day. Would I eat this carb up meal in the morning or all three meals in one day. I need something straight. Thanks. I read up on a lot of things on this site and people are real confused about this topic for the keto diet. Oh an one more thing...how do you figure how many carbs you take in for that load. Sorry for all the questions.

Ox
06-05-08, 6:24 pm
Ox...hey bro, sorry to beat this question like a dead horse but you say to take Nitro on an empty stomach....which I understand after yor workout....but why are others sayingto take it with some sort of simple carb?? Won't that affect the uptake of the amino's and not raise hgh and insulin as you stated above like taking it on an empty stomach? So I need to to back to taking it by itself with my water....like I said I don't meant to beat this like a dead horse.

I feel the best way to do it is to consume Nitro during the course of the workout and after as well with a carb drink...preferably torrent. Taking it on an empty stomach and with no carbs will prime your system for optimal insulin release and glycogen uptake and then taking it PWO with carbs will have it's own set of effects. So during training take Nitro with just water and PWO slam it with Torrent.

Ox
06-05-08, 6:25 pm
What's up Ox, I'd really appreciate your professional feedback...

Can cardio, for fat loss, be incorporated into Training Routine #3 without damaging mass gain?

I've been working out with a goal of fat loss since early March. Diet has been solid if not superstrict. I have done weights continuously (in fact, I am lifting as heavy as I have ever lifted) and do cardio 3-5 times a week. Thanks to Animal Cuts (which I'm taking a 3rd cycle of right now) I have lost more than 10 lbs since I started.

I know everyone says you can't built mass and lose fat at the same time, but I have definitely lost some fat and I have gotten more toned. My back muscles are definitely bigger and thicker. I am as strong as ever and I am definitely thinner. I'm encouraged at my larger musculature AND having less fat/flab.

Secondly, how long should I stick w/ Routine #3?

Thanks a lot Ox, looking forward to your reply.

PS: I have a brand-new container of M-Stak I'm about to start. I used one cycle of M-Stak and it definitely made me look more cut AND thicker. I like it.

What is routine #3?

Ox
06-05-08, 6:28 pm
Ox, first thanks for all the quality advice you dispense here for our Forvm. Takin' time out for the little guy, so to speak.

My question is regarding one of your tips in the "Blueprint for Biceps" inset in last months MD (June) in your section. "Train biceps once a week by themselves."

When/if you have done this, how did it fall in your training split? I have trouble with the mind/muscle connection with my biceps, and among your other suggestions, I think this strategy may help. I generally train Bis with Back.

I can't remember it was so long ago. Maybe:
Monday- chest + front delts
Tuesday- bis + abs
Wed- off
Thurs- tris + calves
Fri- back + rear delts
Sat- hams + quads
Sun- off

Ox
06-05-08, 6:32 pm
Hey ox, got another question...1 day a week I am suppose to carb up. I am not a believer in pizza or other junk food for this important time. What would you eat for a carb up? Like fruits and pasta, wheat bread? Another thing is when is the right time and for how long do you carb up. I hear people say a day and half. Others say one meal in that day. Would I eat this carb up meal in the morning or all three meals in one day. I need something straight. Thanks. I read up on a lot of things on this site and people are real confused about this topic for the keto diet. Oh an one more thing...how do you figure how many carbs you take in for that load. Sorry for all the questions.

I like to carb on white rice, oats, farina, maybe some sweet potato. Before a show I carb up for usually 2-3 days. During my diet I incorporate carbs one meal per week at night. For the sake of the keto diet it is one meal with carbs once per week...easy. Not all day, not half the day. One meal...last meal of the day. The amount of carbs depends on your size.

dannynb
06-05-08, 6:44 pm
I feel the best way to do it is to consume Nitro during the course of the workout and after as well with a carb drink...preferably torrent. Taking it on an empty stomach and with no carbs will prime your system for optimal insulin release and glycogen uptake and then taking it PWO with carbs will have it's own set of effects. So during training take Nitro with just water and PWO slam it with Torrent.

Cool...thanks for clearing that up. Apreciate the help. Come July 1st I begin dieting for my show in November...Texas State and Lackland Classic......gonna need some help with my diet and show prep. Getting close so I'm starting to get my meal planning all set.

J Wong
06-05-08, 9:07 pm
For the carb up meal, how bad is it if you go overboard on the cheat meal? Example would be a medium pizza, pint of ice cream, and a whole order of cheesy bread? I just got to 179, got about 10 more pounds to lose.

Northeasterner
06-06-08, 12:42 am
What is routine #3?

http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=46&section=training%0A

If not this routine, would you recommend another routine found on this site? Or one of your own?

Thanks!

rbh84
06-06-08, 8:39 am
I like to carb on white rice, oats, farina, maybe some sweet potato. Before a show I carb up for usually 2-3 days. During my diet I incorporate carbs one meal per week at night. For the sake of the keto diet it is one meal with carbs once per week...easy. Not all day, not half the day. One meal...last meal of the day. The amount of carbs depends on your size.

I'll pass that along to the others. Thanks.

Brutus_515
06-06-08, 8:51 am
hey ox hope all is going good for you man

I just was seaking a little input...LET ME FIRST explain i am not second guessing anyone or saying so and so said this is right...just pretty much taking all the advice or opinions and then making my own and comparing what will work best for me I spoke to a close friend who is a dietitian (spelling) alway has given me solid advice on what to eat when i am sick mainly for my wife while she is pregnant (she is scared to get big/fat after she pops the baby out) but he we were on the subject of EFA's and since you are the guy around here to ask about this stuff he informed me that

the essential fatty acids are good for over all health, BUT, they are not great if you are trying to build muscle. EFAs reduce the inflammatory process that your muscles need to undergo in order to grow and build. How many miligrams are you taking daily?

I told him i take 4000mg of omega 3's and 2500mg of omega six (from animal omega) and I eat talapia and tuna..and that I am not building muscle "persay" right now i am dieting for a show

he said that was great for heathly living and commended me about takeing a suppelement that has efa's but was rather convinced about the reduction of inflammatory proccess...

just courious to see your side of it if you have any...would the reduction be a negative effect of being in contest prep?

and no i am not going to go back and say "well this guy on the internet told me blah blah blah"..i just want to get others opinions so i can make a conclusion to what best fits me and my body


thanks for your time dude.

Ox
06-06-08, 10:23 am
hey ox hope all is going good for you man

I just was seaking a little input...LET ME FIRST explain i am not second guessing anyone or saying so and so said this is right...just pretty much taking all the advice or opinions and then making my own and comparing what will work best for me I spoke to a close friend who is a dietitian (spelling) alway has given me solid advice on what to eat when i am sick mainly for my wife while she is pregnant (she is scared to get big/fat after she pops the baby out) but he we were on the subject of EFA's and since you are the guy around here to ask about this stuff he informed me that

the essential fatty acids are good for over all health, BUT, they are not great if you are trying to build muscle. EFAs reduce the inflammatory process that your muscles need to undergo in order to grow and build. How many miligrams are you taking daily?

I told him i take 4000mg of omega 3's and 2500mg of omega six (from animal omega) and I eat talapia and tuna..and that I am not building muscle "persay" right now i am dieting for a show

he said that was great for heathly living and commended me about takeing a suppelement that has efa's but was rather convinced about the reduction of inflammatory proccess...

just courious to see your side of it if you have any...would the reduction be a negative effect of being in contest prep?

and no i am not going to go back and say "well this guy on the internet told me blah blah blah"..i just want to get others opinions so i can make a conclusion to what best fits me and my body


thanks for your time dude.

I've discussed the fact that too many omega 3s can hinder muscle growth by impeding inflamation. However, taking in 3,000 mg of fish oil daily while consuming other foods such as whole eggs and red meat (saturated fats which promote inflamation) and taking in a substantial amount of monos, this is not an issue. If all you consumed were omega 3s and did not include monos or staurated fat in yoru diet then yeah that would be a problem. No one is doing that. everything must be balanced. TOO much inflamation will hinder muscle growth by slowing the recovery process. It's all balance.

Ox
06-06-08, 10:24 am
For the carb up meal, how bad is it if you go overboard on the cheat meal? Example would be a medium pizza, pint of ice cream, and a whole order of cheesy bread? I just got to 179, got about 10 more pounds to lose.

Cheesy bread? You're insulting me. C'mon bro, be serious.

Giant Killer
06-06-08, 10:28 am
I can't remember it was so long ago. Maybe:
Monday- chest + front delts
Tuesday- bis + abs
Wed- off
Thurs- tris + calves
Fri- back + rear delts
Sat- hams + quads
Sun- off

Thanks Ox!

J Wong
06-06-08, 10:28 am
Cheesy bread? You're insulting me. C'mon bro, be serious.

So I take it as a bad thing.

Ox
06-06-08, 11:11 am
So I take it as a bad thing.

If you serious about your goal(s) then how can cheesy bread, pizza, and ice cream have any relevance?

Malloy1344
06-06-08, 11:18 am
If you serious about your goal(s) then how can cheesy bread, pizza, and ice cream have any relevance?

True bro....

But I have a question then......I was under the impression on Keto you get your cheat meal once a week, and it can be ANYTHING you want. No matter if it's cheesy bread or pizza.

Are their specific guidelines for the cheat meal?

BobbyB11
06-06-08, 11:53 am
Hey Evan, how long after I mix a pro shake do I have before it starts to lose some of its nutrients, if at all. I'd like to mix some pb & oats with my protein before I leave for work, and then down it at work a coupla hours later. Just wanted to make sure I am not wasting my time.

Fury317
06-06-08, 12:10 pm
Hey Ox, got another question for you. I recently was shooting the shit with a buddy of mine who is also into bodybuilding and he said drinking whey isolate throughout the day is the WRONG thing to do for anyone. He claimed the body uses it up too quickly adn that anyone drinking whey isolate would suffer from nitrogen spikes in the body casuing muscle loss. He said the only way to go is through a blend of whey, casien, egg albumen, etc to prolong the digestion. Is this correct? it seemed to make a lot of sense to me, but I see so many people picking up tubs of pure whey. I know whey is meant for first thing in the morning and post workout becuase it gets into your system quickly, but should it be saved for only those times, while using a different protien powder throughout the day? Thanks man.



Cheesy bread? You're insulting me. C'mon bro, be serious.

Haha got a good laugh at this.

BamBam
06-06-08, 5:00 pm
Cheesy bread? You're insulting me. C'mon bro, be serious.

HAHAHA.....thank you Ox for making my day! I tried the sushi and rice for my cheat meal and had a 3 musketeer during the meal too....wow...I feel amazing and my body has swelled. You r the fucking man!

J Wong
06-06-08, 5:03 pm
True bro....

But I have a question then......I was under the impression on Keto you get your cheat meal once a week, and it can be ANYTHING you want. No matter if it's cheesy bread or pizza.

Are their specific guidelines for the cheat meal?

Yeah, I didn't think the food in my cheat meal were supposed to be completely relevant to my goals.

Reacher34
06-06-08, 6:44 pm
Yeah, I didn't think the food in my cheat meal were supposed to be completely relevant to my goals.

Boom,

I get where you're coming from. At first glance, "cheat meal" seems to imply whatever you want, no restrictions. But just stop to think exactly what you're putting into your body. Pizza, cheesy bread, ice cream.... not a good idea unless you are in it STRICTLY for the calories (ala some powerlifters). But those foods shouldn't have a place in bodybuilding. I know some BBers that will eat a whole cheese pizza sometimes for the carbs, but never all three of those things in combination with each other.

Basically, you're way off. BUT, don't worry, you're 17. You'll make mistakes, but this is the place to ask about em. Learn from the responses you got. Good luck.

Ox
06-06-08, 8:39 pm
Yeah, I didn't think the food in my cheat meal were supposed to be completely relevant to my goals.

It's ALL relevant to your goals. If it's not then it has no place. The purpose of the cheat meal is to:

1. Shock your metabolism by eating things you don't normally eat
2. Consume carbohydrates in order to keep your body efficient at digesting them and uptaking glycogen.

That being said, you don't need nor should you consume cheesy bread, ice cream, and pizza to accomplish this. When I carb load for a show that doesn't mean I eat sugar from a bag or ingest high fructose corn syrup. I've said it before and I'll say it again...CRAP IS CRAP and there is no right time to eat CRAP. If you need carbs for your cheat, eat some rice or potatos and treat yourself to a little chocolate. There's no place in a bodybuilder's world, offseason or precontest, for processed shit. We can and should accomplish any dietary goals with quality foods. Fake or processed crap is never the way to do it.

Ox
06-06-08, 8:42 pm
Hey Evan, how long after I mix a pro shake do I have before it starts to lose some of its nutrients, if at all. I'd like to mix some pb & oats with my protein before I leave for work, and then down it at work a coupla hours later. Just wanted to make sure I am not wasting my time.

I wonder the same thing. But I make sure that if I make it in the morning and it's been refrigerated, I consume it that day. I think we're fine.

Ox
06-06-08, 8:46 pm
True bro....

But I have a question then......I was under the impression on Keto you get your cheat meal once a week, and it can be ANYTHING you want. No matter if it's cheesy bread or pizza.

Are their specific guidelines for the cheat meal?

The only guideline for the cheatmeal is the same gudeline that goes along with the bodybuilding diet and lifestyle in general: WE DON"T EAT SHIT FOOD. So long as it isn't processed crap you can eat it. If it's shit, it has no place in your world. We're talking about bodybuilding here and accomplishing serious goals. Crappy, processed, fake food will not help any of us achieve any of our physique oriented goals.

ChandlerXJ
06-06-08, 8:53 pm
Ev - with all this talk of the cheat meal I thought I'd let you know that I've been having a full serving of sweet potato ravioli for my cheat meal - It's legit bro - I get that and a wheat garlic bread made with greek olive oil and a sprinkle of homemade gorgonzola cheese on top. Sometimes I'll top it off with some candy or a small ice cream - looking for gelato for the last of the cheat meals - 7 weeks out now, I plan on dropping the meals in a few weeks if need be.

I've done the pizza, the cake, the shitty stuff - I've also done the oatmeal, the rice, the potatoes... I find a mix of like 95% good, 5% sweet stuff works best for me. I've been keeping track of the cheats, the effects, the changes, everything.

I've never been one to eat junk even in off season - your body really does not know what to do when you have a reeses or a twix man, especially if it's something you NEVER normally have.

Strange too, at this point, I am craving FATS... I have to watch myself sometimes on the cheat because sometimes I'll be thinking of getting more stuff with FATS than CARBS... cheeses, EXTRA peanut butter, trail mix, that sort of stuff...

Anyways, just posting my experience and checking in... this diet WORKS and it works WELL just like you told me...

I've done a few P/V days too - and I've hit a new PR on almost all of my lifts on days like this... I have no clue why? It's literally unreal bro...

Take it easy, thanks for your continued support and have a good weekend and I'll see you in CT soon enough bro!

Joseb
06-07-08, 6:15 pm
i dont know if this is true. but i've seen alot of bodybuilders say that they have cheats of donuts, candy, chocolate, cake, pies and a whole laundry list of shit.

Ive even specifically heard Krazy claim that you should eat anything you want for the cheat meal.. i'd take your word over his but i dont understand his reasoning as he is pretty hardcore about keto.

Also..
i just saw your vid on the MD website. I recall palumbo saying that he used to drink gallons of diet soda.. i dont agree with that but i used to use crystal lite to control my cravings and such. what's your take on crystal lite?
[doesnt it have maltodextrin?]

ROC1291
06-07-08, 8:22 pm
Ox,

What's your opinion on younger guys (16-20 years of age) consuming a cheat meal when not dieting?

I'm still pretty young and I keep my diet in tact throughout the rest of the day. Just sometimes life gets hectic and I wanna go out or keep my sanity during the week. On top of that, my lady friend likes to be taken out every now and then.

I remember you saying something similar to how when you were younger you ate everything you could.

BamBam
06-07-08, 11:29 pm
For me, sushi was my favorite cheat meal. I would make sure I ordered extra rice and shoot for 150-200g of carbs. Then I'd have a couple candy bars for desert. My offseason is going well. I was 290 on the dot this morning after I woke up and took a leak. My strenght is good and I feel like I'm growing...all is well.

Favorite Candy Bar....? lol

I have recently adapted your mentality on core training (once a week like all other muscular groups) and I have seen such great improvements on it I am floored as well asmy family and my girl. I can't wait for my show to let everyone see what I am made of. Thank you once again for all your help!!

Good to know about the Nitro and Torrent combo...I am bulking for Jr.Nationals (going to qualify after the "HOUSE Classic!") come Sept. 14th. I will def. be using this combo.

IN IRON,
BB

Ox
06-08-08, 6:52 pm
Ev - with all this talk of the cheat meal I thought I'd let you know that I've been having a full serving of sweet potato ravioli for my cheat meal - It's legit bro - I get that and a wheat garlic bread made with greek olive oil and a sprinkle of homemade gorgonzola cheese on top. Sometimes I'll top it off with some candy or a small ice cream - looking for gelato for the last of the cheat meals - 7 weeks out now, I plan on dropping the meals in a few weeks if need be.

I've done the pizza, the cake, the shitty stuff - I've also done the oatmeal, the rice, the potatoes... I find a mix of like 95% good, 5% sweet stuff works best for me. I've been keeping track of the cheats, the effects, the changes, everything.

I've never been one to eat junk even in off season - your body really does not know what to do when you have a reeses or a twix man, especially if it's something you NEVER normally have.

Strange too, at this point, I am craving FATS... I have to watch myself sometimes on the cheat because sometimes I'll be thinking of getting more stuff with FATS than CARBS... cheeses, EXTRA peanut butter, trail mix, that sort of stuff...

Anyways, just posting my experience and checking in... this diet WORKS and it works WELL just like you told me...

I've done a few P/V days too - and I've hit a new PR on almost all of my lifts on days like this... I have no clue why? It's literally unreal bro...

Take it easy, thanks for your continued support and have a good weekend and I'll see you in CT soon enough bro!


Right on bro. It's funny how bad you crave the fats and the PB when dieting isn't it. And everyone is shocked how hard they are able to train on this diet and how strong they are.

Ox
06-08-08, 6:58 pm
i dont know if this is true. but i've seen alot of bodybuilders say that they have cheats of donuts, candy, chocolate, cake, pies and a whole laundry list of shit.

Ive even specifically heard Krazy claim that you should eat anything you want for the cheat meal.. i'd take your word over his but i dont understand his reasoning as he is pretty hardcore about keto.

Also..
i just saw your vid on the MD website. I recall palumbo saying that he used to drink gallons of diet soda.. i dont agree with that but i used to use crystal lite to control my cravings and such. what's your take on crystal lite?
[doesnt it have maltodextrin?]

A lot of guys, pros included, do a lot of stupid shit. A lot of guys eat pretty shitty to tell you the truth. I do it my way. I like home cooked food. The purpose of the cheat meal is to stimulate your metabolism and keep your body used to digesting different macronutrients(carbs). You don't need to eat shit to accomplish this. If you wanna eat crap then eat crap. And yes, both diet soda and crystal are crap too. I don't know why you'd disagree with diet soda but think crystal lite is better. They're nothing but artificially flavored and sweetened shit. You don't need it. In fact, the more of that shit you drink, the more you crave it. Drink water or tea. Your body wants straight water...not water infused with synthetic shit. You're meant to drink water. You wouldn't put diesel in a gasoline engine would you?

Ox
06-08-08, 7:02 pm
Ox,

What's your opinion on younger guys (16-20 years of age) consuming a cheat meal when not dieting?

I'm still pretty young and I keep my diet in tact throughout the rest of the day. Just sometimes life gets hectic and I wanna go out or keep my sanity during the week. On top of that, my lady friend likes to be taken out every now and then.

I remember you saying something similar to how when you were younger you ate everything you could.

If you're young you should be trying to grow as much as you can. Eat until you're satisfied and don't deprive yourself of anything just stick to qaulity foods. If you want to eat out here and there that's okay just don't eat crap.

Ox
06-08-08, 7:05 pm
Favorite Candy Bar....? lol

I have recently adapted your mentality on core training (once a week like all other muscular groups) and I have seen such great improvements on it I am floored as well asmy family and my girl. I can't wait for my show to let everyone see what I am made of. Thank you once again for all your help!!

Good to know about the Nitro and Torrent combo...I am bulking for Jr.Nationals (going to qualify after the "HOUSE Classic!") come Sept. 14th. I will def. be using this combo.

IN IRON,
BB

I'm happy to hear you're having good results. I just think that training that way is more practical. Once I did it that way, my body really began to grow and change. Trust me, the Nitro/torrent combo is badass. Good luck bro.

Joseb
06-08-08, 7:17 pm
oh. i dont like diet soda because its fizzy.. LOL
alright im taking your advice then.. i guess if my cheat meal is clean.. then ill be a bit ahead of the rest of the flock.


do you think if i took chandlerxj's percentages and adjusted it to fit mine it would be okay?
Because i've got no problem cheating with oatmeal and steak.. but some ice cream, chocolate, pizza, etc would be nice :]

J Wong
06-08-08, 7:20 pm
I'm going to take your advice, and for my next cheat meal I'm not going to go with completely processed foods. I was thinking either some chinese food, or a big plate of spaghetti with meat sauce finished off with oreos (not a large amount), just about 6. This is better than a bunch of oreos with pizza and all of that.

BamBam
06-08-08, 9:16 pm
I'm happy to hear you're having good results. I just think that training that way is more practical. Once I did it that way, my body really began to grow and change. Trust me, the Nitro/torrent combo is badass. Good luck bro.

THANK YOU!

IN IRON,
BB

Ox
06-08-08, 10:35 pm
oh. i dont like diet soda because its fizzy.. LOL
alright im taking your advice then.. i guess if my cheat meal is clean.. then ill be a bit ahead of the rest of the flock.


do you think if i took chandlerxj's percentages and adjusted it to fit mine it would be okay?
Because i've got no problem cheating with oatmeal and steak.. but some ice cream, chocolate, pizza, etc would be nice :]

I think Chandler's %s are good. You could even go 85/15.

simpleguy
06-09-08, 3:05 am
Ox's, I'll be starting the keto next week, and wanna make sure I got everything right... could you please critique my diet?

Meal 1: 6 eggs (3c, 38p, 32f)
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey isolate, 20 almonds, 3 uni-liver (6c, 36p, 14f)
Meal 3: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 1.5 tbsp peanut butter (8c, 44p, 14f)
Meal 4: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 15g extra virgin olive oil (2c, 38p, 17f)
Meal 5: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 10g extra virgin olive oil (2c, 38p, 12f)
Meal 6: 1 scoop whey isolate, 30g peanuts, 2 uni-liver (6c, 36p, 16f)

Macros breakdown: 27g carbs, 230g protein, 105g fat


my lbm is around 150-155... I know my diet is far from ideal but there are certain things I can't get over here in Romania; if you got any suggestions let me know... thanks

Ox
06-09-08, 10:45 am
Ox's, I'll be starting the keto next week, and wanna make sure I got everything right... could you please critique my diet?

Meal 1: 6 eggs (3c, 38p, 32f)
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey isolate, 20 almonds, 3 uni-liver (6c, 36p, 14f)
Meal 3: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 1.5 tbsp peanut butter (8c, 44p, 14f)
Meal 4: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 15g extra virgin olive oil (2c, 38p, 17f)
Meal 5: 160g chicken breast, 1 oz frozen veggies, 10g extra virgin olive oil (2c, 38p, 12f)
Meal 6: 1 scoop whey isolate, 30g peanuts, 2 uni-liver (6c, 36p, 16f)

Macros breakdown: 27g carbs, 230g protein, 105g fat


my lbm is around 150-155... I know my diet is far from ideal but there are certain things I can't get over here in Romania; if you got any suggestions let me know... thanks

I think you're right on. Perfect. Keep me updated on your progress. Peace.

Lunatic001
06-09-08, 10:50 am
Ox,

Can you please review this keto diet that I am currenty on?? My LBM is about 200 lbs. I am using Nitro, Pak, Omega and Pump as supplements....also do you recommend taking extra vitamin C??

Meal 1: 5 whole eggs
Meal 2: 2 scoops Protein shake, 1tbsp natty pb
Meal 3: 7 oz chicken breast, 2 cups of Spinach, 1/3 cup of Almonds
Meal 4: Same as Meal 2
Meal 5: 6 oz Tuna, 2 cups of Spinach, l tbsp Olive Oil
Meal 6: Same as Meal 2 and 4

Cals 2528; Protein 305g; Fat 123g; Carbs 46g (without deducting fiber)

Thanks for your help....

Lunatic001

Joseb
06-09-08, 12:58 pm
thanks alot bro.
oh and i've been taking EAA stack throughout the day.. will that affect my ketosis?

btw i stay in ketosis fine with like 20-25 non fibrous carbs.

Ox
06-09-08, 11:17 pm
Ox,

Can you please review this keto diet that I am currenty on?? My LBM is about 200 lbs. I am using Nitro, Pak, Omega and Pump as supplements....also do you recommend taking extra vitamin C??

Meal 1: 5 whole eggs
Meal 2: 2 scoops Protein shake, 1tbsp natty pb
Meal 3: 7 oz chicken breast, 2 cups of Spinach, 1/3 cup of Almonds
Meal 4: Same as Meal 2
Meal 5: 6 oz Tuna, 2 cups of Spinach, l tbsp Olive Oil
Meal 6: Same as Meal 2 and 4

Cals 2528; Protein 305g; Fat 123g; Carbs 46g (without deducting fiber)

Thanks for your help....

Lunatic001


Depends. What's your weight and lbm? And some extra vitamin C never hurt anyone. I'd throw in an extra 1000 mg x 2 times daily but only in combination with 400 IU of Vitamin E x 2 times daily. Oh and splurge for the ester-c. Too much unbuffered vitamin c can give you heartburn and or bother your stomach.

Ox
06-09-08, 11:18 pm
thanks alot bro.
oh and i've been taking EAA stack throughout the day.. will that affect my ketosis?

btw i stay in ketosis fine with like 20-25 non fibrous carbs.

If the 20-25g of non-fibrous carbs don't effect it then the EAA won't.

Ag3ntSneaky
06-10-08, 3:19 am
Ox, I read one of your articles everyday before i train. Every time I'm done reading I'm inspired to kill it at the gym. I just want to thank you for all the inspiration you have on me bro. I can honestly say that no one has inspired me as much as you have.
I appreciate all that you have done, and all that you will continue to do for all of us.

Ox
06-10-08, 9:35 am
Ox, I read one of your articles everyday before i train. Every time I'm done reading I'm inspired to kill it at the gym. I just want to thank you for all the inspiration you have on me bro. I can honestly say that no one has inspired me as much as you have.
I appreciate all that you have done, and all that you will continue to do for all of us.

Damn dude...I'm honored to know that I'm able to have such a positive impact. Keep up the hard work. Consistency is key. If you do the right shit day after day after day you will get where you want to go. Good luck buddy. Peace.

Lunatic001
06-10-08, 10:51 am
Ox,

Can you please review this keto diet that I am currenty on?? My LBM is about 200 lbs. I am using Nitro, Pak, Omega and Pump as supplements....also do you recommend taking extra vitamin C??

Meal 1: 5 whole eggs
Meal 2: 2 scoops Protein shake, 1tbsp natty pb
Meal 3: 7 oz chicken breast, 2 cups of Spinach, 1/3 cup of Almonds
Meal 4: Same as Meal 2
Meal 5: 6 oz Tuna, 2 cups of Spinach, l tbsp Olive Oil
Meal 6: Same as Meal 2 and 4

Cals 2528; Protein 305g; Fat 123g; Carbs 46g (without deducting fiber)

Thanks for your help....

Lunatic001


Depends. What's your weight and lbm? And some extra vitamin C never hurt anyone. I'd throw in an extra 1000 mg x 2 times daily but only in combination with 400 IU of Vitamin E x 2 times daily. Oh and splurge for the ester-c. Too much unbuffered vitamin c can give you heartburn and or bother your stomach.

Ox,

Thanks for taking the time to review this. I forgot the most important information. My weight is as of yesterday 249 lbs at 20% for an LBM of approx. 199.6 lbs.....

Thanks,
Lunatic001

P.S. your 10 sets of squats for legs advice is brutal but effective......thanks...

4LIFE
06-10-08, 2:53 pm
Can you take Pump on zero carb cut? And what is the way you calculate the calories of fat for my 1:1 protien : fat. Also does It matter if my protien contains milk?

Wild Cat
06-10-08, 3:07 pm
Hey Ox, you often hear about Reg Park's popular 5x5 method and Waterbury's 10x3 or Vince Gironda's 8x8. Are these multi joint, muscle variety exercise recommendations or can these rep/set schemes be used for single joint exercises like for example: biceps curls, tricep extentions or leg extensions.

-Wild Cat

Joseb
06-10-08, 6:49 pm
no milk on keto.
milk = Lactose
Lactose = sugar
Sugar = bad in keto

also to find fat calories.. you'd need to find your the amount of protein and multiply it by 4 to get the amount of calories your protein takes up. Then you take that amount of calories and divide it by 9 [9 = number of calories in a g of fat]
thats how much fat you need.

im gonna ask WHY you didnt use the search button though..

Ox
06-10-08, 7:07 pm
Ox,

Thanks for taking the time to review this. I forgot the most important information. My weight is as of yesterday 249 lbs at 20% for an LBM of approx. 199.6 lbs.....

Thanks,
Lunatic001

P.S. your 10 sets of squats for legs advice is brutal but effective......thanks...

No problem. I would start with what you have down. It may be a little much but it depends on what you are eating right now. So start with this and when you plateu, adjust it. The 10 x 10 is brutal isn't it?

Ox
06-10-08, 7:09 pm
Can you take Pump on zero carb cut? And what is the way you calculate the calories of fat for my 1:1 protien : fat. Also does It matter if my protien contains milk?

Nitrix oxide products work better with carbohydrates. You can try it but from what I understand you should be consuming a good amount of carbs and stay well hydrated. The formula for the calculations is in the thread somewhere. Milk is okay if it's milk protein isolate and then the fat and lactose/sugar has been removed.

Lunatic001
06-10-08, 7:11 pm
No problem. I would start with what you have down. It may be a little much but it depends on what you are eating right now. So start with this and when you plateu, adjust it. The 10 x 10 is brutal isn't it?


Thanks Ox, should I adjust the cardio or rearrange the diet with the new LBM when I plataeu? The 10x10 squats are brutal but effective. Can't build a house without a good foundation, right?

Thanks,
Lunatic001

P.S. Whenever you go the west coast, let us know.....going to the Olympia??

Ox
06-10-08, 7:14 pm
Hey Ox, you often hear about Reg Park's popular 5x5 method and Waterbury's 10x3 or Vince Gironda's 8x8. Are these multi joint, muscle variety exercise recommendations or can these rep/set schemes be used for single joint exercises like for example: biceps curls, tricep extentions or leg extensions.

-Wild Cat

I have no idea. When you say 8 x 8 you mean 8 sets of 8 reps right? That sounds okay. I feel like anything less than 6 or 8 reps is more for strength gains...which is okay too sometimes. As for whether to use them for curls etc...I don't know. What is the premise behind these different schemes? Personally, I don't really stick to any one set/rep scheme. I train my body based on how I feel and what I think it needs or doesn't need. NOTHING is good ALL THE TIME. My routines are CONSTANTLY changing. That's why when people ask me what I do for my arms or legs I'm like "I can tell you what I did last week but it's probably not gonna be what I do this week." I think people overthink training and try and make it too scientific. Just train!

Ox
06-10-08, 7:16 pm
Thanks Ox, should I adjust the cardio or rearrange the diet with the new LBM when I plataeu? The 10x10 squats are brutal but effective. Can't build a house without a good foundation, right?

Thanks,
Lunatic001

P.S. Whenever you go the west coast, let us know.....going to the Olympia??

Cardio should be upped when necessary. I usually up mine 10 min./day each week when I'm dieting. I usually start at 30 min every day and work my way up from there. I'm not sure if I'm going to the Olympia yet. We'll see.

Lunatic001
06-10-08, 7:18 pm
Cardio should be upped when necessary. I usually up mine 10 min./day each week when I'm dieting. I usually start at 30 min every day and work my way up from there. I'm not sure if I'm going to the Olympia yet. We'll see.

Thanks again...will do like you say....

Sphinx
06-10-08, 7:28 pm
Hey there Ox, I just went over something you read and wanted to ask you about it. I'm still learning about weightlifting/bodybuilding and am still experimenting with different routines and exercises. One of the posts above, you mentioned;

"I feel like anything less than 6 or 8 reps is more for strength gains...which is okay too sometimes."

(sorry I don' know how to do the quote thing)

I do 5 sets of 5 reps myself and have seen improvement in my lifting.

If your saying this is good for strength gains, what would be good for mass gains? Asides from the obvious of diet, is there any recommendation of sets and reps to follow or use as a guideline if your trying to add on muscle?

Wild Cat
06-11-08, 2:16 am
Originally Posted by Wild Cat
"Hey Ox, you often hear about Reg Park's popular 5x5 method and Waterbury's 10x3 or Vince Gironda's 8x8. Are these multi joint, muscle variety exercise recommendations or can these rep/set schemes be used for single joint exercises like for example: biceps curls, tricep extentions or leg extensions."

-Wild Cat

..."I have no idea. When you say 8 x 8 you mean 8 sets of 8 reps right?"

...Yep that's what I mean Ox 8 sets of 8 reps. Thanks for your advice, and 10x3 is a strength improvement set/rep scheme recommendation for dynamic effort. But Waterbury from T-nation popularized it's use for bodybuilding purpose and has written about its success for that purpose. He pretty much just flipped flopped the standard 3x10 rule.

And 5x5 is a middle road between strength and bodybuilding efforts that was popularized by Reg Park. Your advice is in the realm of bodybuilding things need to change and everything is variable. Unless your training for strength in which movements is prioritized over muscles, the rep/set schemes don't have to be written in stone, just train instinctual.

Thanks for the advice you don't have to answer this post I have no further questions I just wanted to clarify better the rep/set scheme basis.

-Wild Cat

antish
06-11-08, 9:22 am
evan, do you consider your chest to be a weaker bodypart compared to your massive back ?

4LIFE
06-11-08, 1:56 pm
Nitrix oxide products work better with carbohydrates. You can try it but from what I understand you should be consuming a good amount of carbs and stay well hydrated. The formula for the calculations is in the thread somewhere. Milk is okay if it's milk protein isolate and then the fat and lactose/sugar has been removed.
Thanks OX! I haven't felt tired since I started the keto 5 days and I've got my diet dialed in, I guess ill have to see how I feel in a couple days.
Its funny when you start eating healthy how you don't really care if you eat bad food! I do get a lot of shit from the guys at work, but they all go home and get drunk every night.

throwermuscle
06-11-08, 2:18 pm
ox man you are my hero, seriously your posts have changed the way i look at my workouts i even got my bench up to 310 thanks man from the heart thanks

jhicks3301
06-11-08, 6:09 pm
Ox, Doing my first show in October.
If you could give advice for a first timer what would it be?

Ox
06-11-08, 10:08 pm
Hey there Ox, I just went over something you read and wanted to ask you about it. I'm still learning about weightlifting/bodybuilding and am still experimenting with different routines and exercises. One of the posts above, you mentioned;

"I feel like anything less than 6 or 8 reps is more for strength gains...which is okay too sometimes."

(sorry I don' know how to do the quote thing)

I do 5 sets of 5 reps myself and have seen improvement in my lifting.

If your saying this is good for strength gains, what would be good for mass gains? Asides from the obvious of diet, is there any recommendation of sets and reps to follow or use as a guideline if your trying to add on muscle?


While strength is definitely important if you are going to use increasingly heavier weights in your training. I feel that reps kept between 8 and 12 and used in conjunction with super sets, drop sets, ginat sets will all activate secondary muscle fibers and result in a much more developed look. You can do straight sets of 3 reps on shoulder presses all day long and be strong as hell and you're not gonna achieve that round, capped look that developed bodybuilders have. You need to fatigue the muscle and break through to different fibers. 3 reps won't cut it.

Ox
06-11-08, 10:08 pm
evan, do you consider your chest to be a weaker bodypart compared to your massive back ?

Yes.

Ox
06-11-08, 10:09 pm
Thanks OX! I haven't felt tired since I started the keto 5 days and I've got my diet dialed in, I guess ill have to see how I feel in a couple days.
Its funny when you start eating healthy how you don't really care if you eat bad food! I do get a lot of shit from the guys at work, but they all go home and get drunk every night.

Don't listen to people. They can't stand to see someone do the things they wish they had the discipline to do.

Ox
06-11-08, 10:11 pm
ox man you are my hero, seriously your posts have changed the way i look at my workouts i even got my bench up to 310 thanks man from the heart thanks

Damn bro I'm really happy to hear that. Just remember, nothing is set in stone. We are constantly changing and so ouyr training should change too. Nothing can be what you need ALL the time. Don't be afraid to listen to yourself.

Ox
06-11-08, 10:18 pm
Ox, Doing my first show in October.
If you could give advice for a first timer what would it be?

1. Be very careful what advice you take and what advice you don't. Some people can really help you while others can't help themselves and can't help you either.

2. Develop a gameplan and stick to it. The only way to assess whether or not somehting is effective or not is to adhere to it 100%. If you falter from your plan then you did not follow THAT plan and you will never be able to say whether it worked or not.

3. Don't be afraid to listen to yourself. Also don't be close-minded.

4. Train the same way you train offseason. If you use smaller weights and train like a little girl then your body will adapt to small baby weights and you will look like a little girl. Use it or lose it.

5. Do your cardio/you're never as lean as you think you are. You may look like Mr. Olympia in the gym and look shredded to the bone. Being on stage is a whole other ball game. You're not ready until your ass is striated and you cannot pinch anyhting anywhere. Bodyfat calipers don't mean shit. Keep going. Rarely is anyone as lean as they think they are.

jhicks3301
06-12-08, 12:36 am
1. Be very careful what advice you take and what advice you don't. Some people can really help you while others can't help themselves and can't help you either.

2. Develop a gameplan and stick to it. The only way to assess whether or not somehting is effective or not is to adhere to it 100%. If you falter from your plan then you did not follow THAT plan and you will never be able to say whether it worked or not.

3. Don't be afraid to listen to yourself. Also don't be close-minded.

4. Train the same way you train offseason. If you use smaller weights and train like a little girl then your body will adapt to small baby weights and you will look like a little girl. Use it or lose it.

5. Do your cardio/you're never as lean as you think you are. You may look like Mr. Olympia in the gym and look shredded to the bone. Being on stage is a whole other ball game. You're not ready until your ass is striated and you cannot pinch anyhting anywhere. Bodyfat calipers don't mean shit. Keep going. Rarely is anyone as lean as they think they are.

Speechless bro.. I will live by this for the next 18 weeks. Thanks brother

Sphinx
06-12-08, 8:35 am
While strength is definitely important if you are going to use increasingly heavier weights in your training. I feel that reps kept between 8 and 12 and used in conjunction with super sets, drop sets, ginat sets will all activate secondary muscle fibers and result in a much more developed look. You can do straight sets of 3 reps on shoulder presses all day long and be strong as hell and you're not gonna achieve that round, capped look that developed bodybuilders have. You need to fatigue the muscle and break through to different fibers. 3 reps won't cut it.

Thank you for response Ox, I will definitely take your advice into consideration, make the appropriate changes in my routines, and see what happens from there.

Achilles
06-12-08, 11:13 am
Ox, 2 Questions for you ..

#1 On June 28th we're having an ABC in Wheeling, WV. I would like it, if you could come and train with us. Id personally like to train arms with you, but if not .. it's fine. Do you think you could make an appearance ?

#2 Ive been doing my rep sets as follows 10/8/6/4/2 .. Ive been doing this on squat and bench press. Ive really seen an improvement in strength with this technique. My squat started it's max at 250/260 for 2 and last night I went parrallel for 315 twice. Not bad for a skinny guy. My question is, Is this a good method to continue to use ? It's working now but is there a possibility for long term success with it ? Or should I change the rep sets and if so to what ? Also the weight is asscending, every set.

HOCKEY TEMPER
06-12-08, 3:22 pm
Ox, i'm looking for a good chest routine to use for a few weeks...I just finished a 12 week chest program where I hit chest twice a week and now i'm going back to lifting chest once a week...i'd like to hear anything that has worked for you in the past bro...just looking to shock the chest and switch things up...thanks in advance.

Lunatic001
06-12-08, 7:11 pm
Cardio should be upped when necessary. I usually up mine 10 min./day each week when I'm dieting. I usually start at 30 min every day and work my way up from there. I'm not sure if I'm going to the Olympia yet. We'll see.


No problem. I would start with what you have down. It may be a little much but it depends on what you are eating right now. So start with this and when you plateu, adjust it. The 10 x 10 is brutal isn't it?

Ox,

Thanks for reviewing my diet and your advice about Vitamin C and E. I forgot to ask if these supps go well with Keto.......Animal Pak, Omega, Nitro, Pump, Uni-Liver, Vitamin C ester and D (as you recommended)....

Thanks for your time,
Lunatic001

J Wong
06-12-08, 8:31 pm
I just read on another person's post about keto, that you NEED a fatty protein meal. Is this true?

Rhetoric
06-13-08, 1:12 am
Evan,
Hope things are going well for you. From the looks of recent posts, it appears that you are having a very productive off-season. I have a cooking question: how in the hell do you cook your swordfish without filling your kitchen w/ smoke? I tried your technique from the MDTV video clips and let's just say the result wasn't as appetizing... edible, but not pretty. I cooked it on the stove w/ a small amount of mac nut oil (about 3-4 minutes a side) and somehow failed. Twice. What am I doing wrong? Thanks for the advice, you culinary wiz you.

SizeMatters
06-13-08, 10:49 am
whats up ox...saw the vid of you and house hitting some cable curls you looking HYOOOOOGE as usual...keep up the work big dawg.

Ox
06-15-08, 12:59 pm
Ox, 2 Questions for you ..

#1 On June 28th we're having an ABC in Wheeling, WV. I would like it, if you could come and train with us. Id personally like to train arms with you, but if not .. it's fine. Do you think you could make an appearance ?

#2 Ive been doing my rep sets as follows 10/8/6/4/2 .. Ive been doing this on squat and bench press. Ive really seen an improvement in strength with this technique. My squat started it's max at 250/260 for 2 and last night I went parrallel for 315 twice. Not bad for a skinny guy. My question is, Is this a good method to continue to use ? It's working now but is there a possibility for long term success with it ? Or should I change the rep sets and if so to what ? Also the weight is asscending, every set.

1. On June 28th I have to help my buddy out at this supplement store.

2. If it aint broke...don't fix it. Pretty much anyhting will work for a period of time and then you'll have to switch it up. ride it until your progress slows then switch it up and come back to it later.

Ox
06-15-08, 1:01 pm
Ox, i'm looking for a good chest routine to use for a few weeks...I just finished a 12 week chest program where I hit chest twice a week and now i'm going back to lifting chest once a week...i'd like to hear anything that has worked for you in the past bro...just looking to shock the chest and switch things up...thanks in advance.

I switch back and forth from week to week between starting with a compound movement or pre-exhausting. One week I will do two isolation movements first followed by two pressing movements and then the following week do the opposite.

Ox
06-15-08, 1:02 pm
Ox,

Thanks for reviewing my diet and your advice about Vitamin C and E. I forgot to ask if these supps go well with Keto.......Animal Pak, Omega, Nitro, Pump, Uni-Liver, Vitamin C ester and D (as you recommended)....

Thanks for your time,
Lunatic001

I think they all work well with keto except for the pump which I feel works better when you are consuming a good amount of carbs.

Ox
06-15-08, 1:03 pm
I just read on another person's post about keto, that you NEED a fatty protein meal. Is this true?

You should have one but if you don't eat fatty fish or red meat you can make up for the lack of fat with oil.

Ox
06-15-08, 1:08 pm
Evan,
Hope things are going well for you. From the looks of recent posts, it appears that you are having a very productive off-season. I have a cooking question: how in the hell do you cook your swordfish without filling your kitchen w/ smoke? I tried your technique from the MDTV video clips and let's just say the result wasn't as appetizing... edible, but not pretty. I cooked it on the stove w/ a small amount of mac nut oil (about 3-4 minutes a side) and somehow failed. Twice. What am I doing wrong? Thanks for the advice, you culinary wiz you.

Use a non stick pan and cook set on medium high heat. Add 1tbsp of oil and 1/4 cup of water and once the water begins to steam, add the fish and cover. Reduce the heat and watch the fish and when the water evaporates, add more. I would cook for maybe 5 minutes on each side and that's really it.

Ox
06-15-08, 1:09 pm
whats up ox...saw the vid of you and house hitting some cable curls you looking HYOOOOOGE as usual...keep up the work big dawg.

Thanks man. That was filmed back in October. I'm 30 lbs heavier now.

J Wong
06-15-08, 1:12 pm
You should have one but if you don't eat fatty fish or red meat you can make up for the lack of fat with oil.

Ok, I have a tbsp of evoo with my chicken twice a day. Thanks.

Lunatic001
06-15-08, 5:47 pm
I think they all work well with keto except for the pump which I feel works better when you are consuming a good amount of carbs.

Thanks for the reply. What can do you recommend to use instead of pump?

Thanks,
Lunatic001

SizeMatters
06-15-08, 10:52 pm
Thanks man. That was filmed back in October. I'm 30 lbs heavier now.

lol thats fucking redic.

Bigsmooth43
06-16-08, 12:51 am
Hey, I was wondering if there was a place I could see what some of these lifts are for the workout you provided for me (http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=148&). I didn't know what some of the lifts were for the back and I wanted to make sure I was doing things correctly. Any help or advice?

matt

Rhetoric
06-16-08, 3:39 pm
Use a non stick pan and cook set on medium high heat. Add 1tbsp of oil and 1/4 cup of water and once the water begins to steam, add the fish and cover. Reduce the heat and watch the fish and when the water evaporates, add more. I would cook for maybe 5 minutes on each side and that's really it.

Sounds good, thanks for tip. I'll give it a shot tomorrow night. I actually have another food-related question for you: what are your thoughts on white rice? I read conflicting things all the time and it seems everyone has a different opinion about it. I know that you are a fan of it and was wondering why you opt for white rice instead of brown? I much prefer white, but was always under the impression that those who lack a fast metabolism should avoid it and go for the more fiberous of the two. As always, thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions. Also, congrats on your 100th page in this thread. Well done!

Ox
06-16-08, 9:18 pm
Sounds good, thanks for tip. I'll give it a shot tomorrow night. I actually have another food-related question for you: what are your thoughts on white rice? I read conflicting things all the time and it seems everyone has a different opinion about it. I know that you are a fan of it and was wondering why you opt for white rice instead of brown? I much prefer white, but was always under the impression that those who lack a fast metabolism should avoid it and go for the more fiberous of the two. As always, thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions. Also, congrats on your 100th page in this thread. Well done!

I like white rice. Brown rice is good but when bulking it's too fibrous and that makes it 1. digest too slow and 2. too filling. If I'm eating every 2-3 hours I can't do it if I'm eating brown rice with all 3 meals...I just won't be hungry enough and if I can't eat I won't grow. Plus, in all honesty, by the time you combine your white rice with your proteins and your fats how relevant is the glycemic index? I don't know either but my guess is that diesgtion of thiose carbs is slowed down significantly anyways. Wow...we are on our 100th page huh? Congrats to all of us hahaha.

Ox
06-16-08, 9:19 pm
Thanks for the reply. What can do you recommend to use instead of pump?

Thanks,
Lunatic001

I load up on Nitro before, during and after training and my pumps are NASTY.

Lunatic001
06-16-08, 10:08 pm
I load up on Nitro before, during and after training and my pumps are NASTY.

Will do...one pack before, one pack during, one pack after?? thanks for the response...

Lunatic001

Ox
06-16-08, 10:42 pm
Will do...one pack before, one pack during, one pack after?? thanks for the response...

Lunatic001

Hell yeah. But one before, two during and one after would be even better!

Pizzalamp
06-16-08, 10:49 pm
hey evan
just picked up the new md...i liked your column...i enjoy reading what u monsters do day by day...hope u have more like that...even like a day in the life kind of thing...grocery shopping or how u managed to fit your meals in during a photo shoot or getting stuck in the drive through at the bank

i see u do the whey isolate 30 mins after torrent...thats how i did it when i took waxy maize post workout...im gonna try torrent for the 1st time in a few weeks.

Lunatic001
06-17-08, 12:58 am
Hell yeah. But one before, two during and one after would be even better!

You are the man....will do bro...thanks for all your help....how would you recommend to take nitro if I do cardio in the am (0430) and lift in the evening (1800 or 1900)? I will be dropping the pump and storm from my keto diet as you advised. Thanks for guiding me through keto. I really take your advice to heart. Keep training hard and smart.

Thanks,
Lunatic001

Ox
06-17-08, 10:29 am
You are the man....will do bro...thanks for all your help....how would you recommend to take nitro if I do cardio in the am (0430) and lift in the evening (1800 or 1900)? I will be dropping the pump and storm from my keto diet as you advised. Thanks for guiding me through keto. I really take your advice to heart. Keep training hard and smart.

Thanks,
Lunatic001

I would take a pak of nitro 10 min into your am cardio. Then I'd try and take the Nitro like I advised during your training but if you can't takw that many paks each day then do the one with cardio in the am and one at the beggining of training and one midway through.

Ox
06-17-08, 10:32 am
hey evan
just picked up the new md...i liked your column...i enjoy reading what u monsters do day by day...hope u have more like that...even like a day in the life kind of thing...grocery shopping or how u managed to fit your meals in during a photo shoot or getting stuck in the drive through at the bank

i see u do the whey isolate 30 mins after torrent...thats how i did it when i took waxy maize post workout...im gonna try torrent for the 1st time in a few weeks.

Glad you liked the column. We've been trying to do some different stuff and not just the typical Q & A. You're really gonna like the Torrent. I'm telling you, it works so much better than just plain waxy maize. With all that leucine and other aminos + creatine it blows regular waxy maize away.

Pizzalamp
06-17-08, 10:37 am
Glad you liked the column. We've been trying to do some different stuff and not just the typical Q & A. You're really gonna like the Torrent. I'm telling you, it works so much better than just plain waxy maize. With all that leucine and other aminos + creatine it blows regular waxy maize away.

thanks

Lunatic001
06-17-08, 4:09 pm
I would take a pak of nitro 10 min into your am cardio. Then I'd try and take the Nitro like I advised during your training but if you can't takw that many paks each day then do the one with cardio in the am and one at the beggining of training and one midway through.

Thanks for all your help. Will do as you say.....

Lunatic001

Ag3ntSneaky
06-17-08, 7:36 pm
Ox,
Im 18, in about two months im headed off to college. I have a problem with eating 5-6 times a day because of money. My parents really wont help me out with buying food and stuff.. Do you have an idea what i can do? Could i cut down meals to about 4 or so a day? Im on a bulk right now, which makes it even tougher

Ox
06-17-08, 8:08 pm
Ox,
Im 18, in about two months im headed off to college. I have a problem with eating 5-6 times a day because of money. My parents really wont help me out with buying food and stuff.. Do you have an idea what i can do? Could i cut down meals to about 4 or so a day? Im on a bulk right now, which makes it even tougher

Econo-whey to save the day! Universal's Ultra Whey Pro 5 lb is the whey to go...hahaha I know...fuckin' cheesy. Okay so here's the deal, if you order a jug from an online store such as DPS Nutrition for example you can grab the jug for $34.99. The jug has 99 scoops and each one has 22g of protein. That's 35 cents for 22g of protein! That comes out to 1.59 cents/gram of protein. That's damn cheap.

Let's say for a minute you buy chicken breasts on sale for $1.99/lb. (pretty cheap). One pound of chicken will give you 96g of protein. So that's 2 cents/gram of protein. That's 20% more expensive than the whey.

Think about it. The whey is still 20% cheaper than dirt cheap chicken! It's well worth it when you consider the value.

RenegadeRows
06-17-08, 9:47 pm
This might be some retarded bullshit but I have to ask since you and Jumbo Palumbo the two guys I know of that really take a scientific approach to bodybuilding.

I read that protein gets denatured when subjected to heat (during cooking) and this denatured protein is useless to the body. Two questions are:
which denature protein more (boiling or frying eggs?) and
what kind of loss in protein do I need to expect when I cook a 4oz steak with 20gms of protien on a forman if I took it off when it just gets well done?

Thanks bro. Im not really concerned with the issue, I would just like to get an idea for info purposes.

Ox
06-17-08, 10:21 pm
This might be some retarded bullshit but I have to ask since you and Jumbo Palumbo the two guys I know of that really take a scientific approach to bodybuilding.

I read that protein gets denatured when subjected to heat (during cooking) and this denatured protein is useless to the body. Two questions are:
which denature protein more (boiling or frying eggs?) and
what kind of loss in protein do I need to expect when I cook a 4oz steak with 20gms of protien on a forman if I took it off when it just gets well done?

Thanks bro. Im not really concerned with the issue, I would just like to get an idea for info purposes.

I'm not 100% on the whole topic but I'm pretty sure of a couple things. For example, although you denature eggs when you cook them, it is of a benefit to your body. From what I understand, denaturing the egg actually makes it usable by your body. If you ate it raw, the absorption of the protein would be limited. I think that for the most part, steam poaching is the best way to cook proteins without worrying about denaturing them too much. If you boil water, it is kept at a constant temp and doesn't go above that....you can't char or burn meat or eggs by poaching them. So I would go for poached eggs vs fried. I would poach instead of grill or fry. Sushi is great. Unfortunately, it's not a good idea to eat all our meats/poultry raw. You can eat meat raw if you prepare it properly (steak tartar) and it's fuckin' delicious! But you can't do that too often. The last thing you want is a tape worm. Good luck trying to put on size when some worm is eating all your food! That's fucked up. But overall, steaming/poaching is the way to go. For steaks, buy fresh, quality meats and eat them medium rare.

SizeMatters
06-17-08, 10:45 pm
hey ox.. i was reading your last post... talk to me more about consumign raw meat its always kidan crossed my mind, nothign leik a big raw steak gotta love how they look. what do u reccomend preperation wise

Pizzalamp
06-17-08, 11:49 pm
I know you like to have sushi for your cheat meals, but do you have sushi every week? Even in the off season do you cheat once a week? And what are some of your favorite cheat meals to have?

I was reading back some posts and you talked about Sacred Heart U-thats where I went to school...that weight room was the best

Ag3ntSneaky
06-18-08, 12:11 am
I appreciate it man thanks a lot.. We need more guys like you bro. Thanks agian.

Ox
06-18-08, 7:27 pm
Hey, I was wondering if there was a place I could see what some of these lifts are for the workout you provided for me (http://www.animalpak.com/html/article_details.cfm?ID=148&). I didn't know what some of the lifts were for the back and I wanted to make sure I was doing things correctly. Any help or advice?

matt

If you go to your local book store or Barnes and Nobles you should be able to pick up a book that demonstrates exercises. Arnold's Bodybuilding Encyclopedia is a great book to have and it shows most of the exercises and how they are performed.